Trying to find information and possible photographs

Try this:

Charlie Peace (http://www.historybytheyard.co.uk/charlie_peace.htm)

No photos but some nice sketches.

Try this:

www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/hpac.pl?_cgifunction=form&_layout=picturesheffield&keyval=sheff.id=2554

Happy looking chap, aint he.

The 'Duke of Darnall' was an eccentric who dressed with bowler hat,gloves and spats who was well known for pretending to direct the traffic, as the police did in those days, around Lady's Bridge and the city centre.He had 'Russian Edna', the woman who was murdered in High Hazel's Park, lodging with him. I'll tell you more when I find the article on this. Charles Peace should be on You Tube or somewhere. He shot a policeman in Sheffield in the 1920's (?) and was famous for distorting his features. His effigy is, or at least was, in Madame Toussaud's, London. My mother, who lived through those years, used to point out a passageway on Leoplold St. where he ran down to escape the police. She also said that there was a bullet hole in the glass of the Town Hall clock fired by Peace.

The 'Duke of Darnall' was an eccentric who dressed with bowler hat,gloves and spats who was well known for pretending to direct the traffic, as the police did in those days, around Lady's Bridge and the city centre.He had 'Russian Edna', the woman who was murdered in High Hazel's Park, lodging with him. I'll tell you more when I find the article on this. Charles Peace should be on You Tube or somewhere. He shot a policeman in Sheffield in the 1920's (?) and was famous for distorting his features. His effigy is, or at least was, in Madame Toussaud's, London. My mother, who lived through those years, used to point out a passageway on Leoplold St. where he ran down to escape the police. She also said that there was a bullet hole in the glass of the Town Hall clock fired by Peace.

not 100% accurate, David.

Charlie peace lived some 100 years before the 1920s (that would have been the era of the Mooney gang in Sheffield)

he was a career criminal, a housebreaker-turned murderer, and he was hanged in February 1879, nearly sixty years before the 20's. He lived from 1832 to 1879.

He didn't shoot a Sheffield police officer, the incident where he shot a police officer was in Walley Range, Manchester, in August 1876.

The murder in Sheffield happened in the Psalter Lane/ Banner Cross area, he shot a man called Arthur Dyson (who's wife peace may or may not have had an affair with) after stalking Dyson and his family from Darnall, Sheffield.

Peace escaped justice for a while, but was captured after fleeing to london, and hiding "in plain sight" for a couple of years, he was betrayed by his mistress, Susan Gray. he played the respectable church-going gent, "John Ward" whilst carrying out his usual burglaries.

Peace was caught after attempting to murder another police officer, in London, a valiant man, Constable Robinson. Robinson held fast to Peace, despite being wounded and Peace was captured.

the legend of Leopold Street is about 2 and a half miles wrong.

The alley peace fled down was between Psalter Lane and Ecclesall Road, by the Banner cross hotel.

Peace's family (mother) lived in the orchard lane/ street area for a while.

The town hall clock legend is also that. A legend

Peace died about 20 years before the town hall clock was erected, so he'd have had a task and a half on him to have managed that.

wernt they buses run by Andrews?? lol

wernt they buses run by Andrews?? lol

:nod: alongside the bus called "Steel, Peech and Tozer", that's right, andy.

(well I certainly remember the buses called Charlie Peace and S, P, & T:- I am not 100% certain about there being a bus called the Duke of Darnall)

:nod: alongside the bus called "Steel, Peech and Tozer", that's right, andy.

(well I certainly remember the buses called Charlie Peace and S, P, & T:- I am not 100% certain about there being a bus called the Duke of Darnall)


there deffo was a duke of darnall

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/andyrad/Buses/fleetlist.jpg

[QUOTE=Plain Talker;6474994]

The alley peace fled down was between Psalter Lane and Ecclesall Road, by the Banner cross hotel.

QUOTE]

Not 100% accurate PT.

The alley was below the Banner, and has now been bricked up and turned into a sandwich shop that has ceased trading. It originally led to the car park behind the row of shops.

A pity really, as Peace fired two shots, one of which apparently left a mark on the lintel of the alley, now obscured by the building of the (failed) shop.

Harry Taylor...known as the 'Duke of Darnall'.

http://www.picturesheffield.com/cgi-bin/zoom.pl?picture=http://www.picturesheffield.com/jpgh/s08787.jpg

Hi Plaintalker, I should have checked Chas.Peace out first. The memory plays tricks but I heard the story (legend) from others also. You mention them living on Orchard Place,that's where I meant when I said 'off Leopold St.' but had forgotten the name ( the infants' welfare clinic was down Orchard Place, remember 'Ostermilk' and the orangejuice in bottles with a blue cap ?) The passage I was shown was at the top of Orchard Place, but as you say, it must have been embroidered legend. Mum probably wanted to scare me from going down the city on my 3 wheel bike as I once did !

David, I have a very good book, which I bought off Amazon, called " King of the Lags: the Story of Charles Peace". it's by David Ward.

If you wish, I am willing to lend it to you, it's a really interesting read.

I think you are correct in saying that the site of the Peace's home was around where the clinic was.

Many parents frightened their kids into obedience by threatening them "Charlie Peace'll have you!"

I had some relatives who lived on the manor and I remember when I was about 7 or 8 my nan telling me that one of the relatives used to let Charles Peace hide out in their house. Didn't really register as something interesting at the time so that's about all I know. the innocence of youth

I had some relatives who lived on the manor and I remember when I was about 7 or 8 my nan telling me that one of the relatives used to let Charles Peace hide out in their house. Didn't really register as something interesting at the time so that's about all I know. the innocence of youth

The relatives must have been really old, by then?

The relatives must have been really old, by then?

No they were not alive when my nan told me about them :)

No they were not alive when my nan told me about them :)

I know what you mean, my great grandmother told me that her great aunt had seen the Duke of Wellington on his return from Waterloo. She was born in 1874 (same year as Churchill) so the maths work out.

The Duke of Darnall was known to the kids who lived in the area as Dummy Taylor in the non PC days of the 50's.We were all terrified of him.

Charlie Peace used to live on Britannia road near where the Darnall library is now

There are a number of interesting documents relating to Charlie Peace at Sheffield Archives:

1. Police Ticket of Leave Book, c.1870s: Following the 1869 Habitual Criminals Act, criminals could be let out early on a ‘ticket of leave’ - a permit to convicts allowing them to leave prison under specific restrictions. It could be withdrawn for misconduct. The notorious Charlie Peace (1832 – 1879) wanted for burglary and murder in Sheffield is listed in the book on page 2 (Charlie Peace aged 35) and page 132 (George Parker, alias of Charlie Peace aged 45). He was arrested in 1878, sent from Pentonville Prison to Sheffield and stood trial for the murder of Arthur Dyson. He was executed in 1879. (Ref. SY295/C/7/14)

2. Letters written by Charlie Peace from his cell prior to execution (Refs. MD7297 and MD5021)

3. Photographs of him and posters advertising a reward for information leading to his arrest (Ref. SY295/7/7)

4. Last Will and Testament of Charles Peace, 1879 (Ref. X144/1/2)

...and so on...!

You can view these original documents in our searchroom at Sheffield Archives.

Cheryl, Sheffield Archives

My cousins dad,was charlie peace's grandson,his mother was charlie's daughter. The bolsover family is named in charlie's will,which was recently released to view in the archives. But i cant tell u which one!

My cousins dad,was charlie peace's grandson,his mother was charlie's daughter. The bolsover family is named in charlie's will,which was recently released to view in the archives. But i cant tell u which one!
charlie was my great great great grandad i believe, bolsovers i know are part of my grandmas family

heres (http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL600/2588775/15796933/240631767.jpg) a scanned newspaprt clipping about him i have

There are a number of interesting documents relating to Charlie Peace at Sheffield Archives:

1. Police Ticket of Leave Book, c.1870s: Following the 1869 Habitual Criminals Act, criminals could be let out early on a ‘ticket of leave’ - a permit to convicts allowing them to leave prison under specific restrictions. It could be withdrawn for misconduct. The notorious Charlie Peace (1832 – 1879) wanted for burglary and murder in Sheffield is listed in the book on page 2 (Charlie Peace aged 35) and page 132 (George Parker, alias of Charlie Peace aged 45). He was arrested in 1878, sent from Pentonville Prison to Sheffield and stood trial for the murder of Arthur Dyson. He was executed in 1879. (Ref. SY295/C/7/14)

2. Letters written by Charlie Peace from his cell prior to execution (Refs. MD7297 and MD5021)

3. Photographs of him and posters advertising a reward for information leading to his arrest (Ref. SY295/7/7)

4. Last Will and Testament of Charles Peace, 1879 (Ref. X144/1/2)

...and so on...!

You can view these original documents in our searchroom at Sheffield Archives.

Cheryl, Sheffield Archives

Cheryl
Not the right thread I know but do you have any documents relating to Harry Brearley in the archives?

Dennis

I came across this Welsh connection, of all things, whilst on holiday recently.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/arts/sites/film/pages/directors-william-haggar.shtml

I wonder if the film still survives anywhere?

Iain

I came across this Welsh connection, of all things, whilst on holiday recently.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/arts/sites/film/pages/directors-william-haggar.shtml

I wonder if the film still survives anywhere?

Iain

yeah id love to see it too

just found this other film is on tv soon

When is The Case of Charles Peace next on TV?

In the UK... it's next showing on Movies4Men August 3rd, 10:00am and on Movies4Men August 25th, 10:00am.

http://movie-tv-episode-database.com/Film/The-Case-of-Charles-Peace-731926/

although according to the tv stations site its 11am lol
http://uk-tv-guide.com/list/Movies4Men/03%20August%202010/

yeah id love to see it too

just found this other film is on tv soon

When is The Case of Charles Peace next on TV?

In the UK... it's next showing on Movies4Men August 3rd, 10:00am and on Movies4Men August 25th, 10:00am.

http://movie-tv-episode-database.com/Film/The-Case-of-Charles-Peace-731926/

although according to the tv stations site its 11am lol
http://uk-tv-guide.com/list/Movies4Men/03%20August%202010/

Darn, drat and cuss-words!

I don't think Virgin supplies that channel, "movies 4 men". :(

Darn, drat and cuss-words!

I don't think Virgin supplies that channel, "movies 4 men". :(

its on my sky box :D

i also have a dvd recorder Oo

its on my sky box :D

i also have a dvd recorder Oo

*scowls in Mel's direction.

RE. HARRY BREARLEY

Hi Dennis

We've got quite a few documents on Harry Brearley of stainless steel fame. Most are within the Firth Brown collection but there's around 11 files of correspondence contained in the Firth-Brearley Stainless Steel Syndicate, Stainless Steel Licensors, Sheffield collection (ref. X318). Best bet is to drop us a quick email and we'll list what we've got. We're open 5 days a week (Mon-Thu; Sat) so you're welcome to come and look at any documents of interest. It is likely the Local Studies Library will also have related material, so it's worth dropping them a line too.

Best wishes (and apologies for hijacking the Charlie Peace thread)
Cheryl, Sheffield Archives

Charlies peces aunty lived at 63 Hinde house lane thats where he hid out for a while

just found this blog (http://family-tree.co.uk/familyblogs/bessie/2010/03/20/pages-from-the-archives-of-the-dyson-family-part-one-the-murder-of-arthur-dyson-at-banner-cross-sheffield-in-1876/) featuring charlie and the death of arthur dyson, includes a picture of the alleyway at banner cross

My cousins dad,was charlie peace's grandson,his mother was charlie's daughter. The bolsover family is named in charlie's will,which was recently released to view in the archives. But i cant tell u which one!

his last wills mentioned here in the star (http://www.thestar.co.uk/diary/Found-Charlie-Peace39s-last-will.3766710.jp)

just found this (http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18790113-name-355&div=t18790113-193#highlight) court report about hannah peace too

And a bit more,
The Burglaries at Blackheath-
At Sheffield Town Hall, yesterday,Hannah Peace, wife of Charles Peace,
now awaiting his trial for the burglaries at Blackheath and elswhere, was brought up, on remand,
charged with having recieved the stolen property obtained by Peace.
It had been ascertained that the prisoner visited her husband in London about the time when the burglaries were commited,
and returned to Sheffield with two boxes filled with their proceeds.
The goods were found hidden in her house at Darnall by Inspector Phillips, of the Criminal Investigation Department.
The Chief Constable of Sheffield, in applying for a further remand yesterday, stated that property derived from no less than
six burglaries had been identified, and that house-holders in the Greenwich district were daily owning the articles removed
from Sheffield by the police as part of the property obtained by Peace's burglaries.
The prisoner was remanded for a week, and in all probability will be tried in London.
Yesterday Inspector Phillips searched the houses of relatives of Peace who live in Brightside.
There he found a large assortment of property, including costly sealskin jackets, silk dresses,
silk jackets trimmed with fur and lace, slippers, silk stockings, and other valuable goods.
They were all taken possession of, as they are believed to be the proceeds of burglaries and robberies committed by Peace.

just been doing some digging about the bolsovers, as i believe im related to them
heres what ive found so far, bit messy and sketchy, sorry lol

john peace (burton on trent) - charlies father

charles peace -
(wife)hannah peace -


(daughter) mrs bolsover (jane anne (charlies daughter?)
(son in law) William Bolsover, of Hazel Road, Darnall.
elsie may bolsover (jane annes daughter?)



(charlies sister) - mary ann (mrs neil)


john bolsover??


every charles peace thing ive read all use the same source, they just say mrs bolsover rather than her actual name so i dunno if its jane ann which i believe it is? whos married to william?
and elsie may is their daughter?

anybody know anymore trail after elsie?

just found this blog (http://family-tree.co.uk/familyblogs/bessie/2010/03/20/pages-from-the-archives-of-the-dyson-family-part-one-the-murder-of-arthur-dyson-at-banner-cross-sheffield-in-1876/) featuring charlie and the death of arthur dyson, includes a picture of the alleyway at banner cross

Yes, that article was written by a relative of mine..Rhys Whatmore.Arthur Dyson was a distant relative of ours.Rhys received contact from Charlie Peace's great grandaughter quite recently.
Sadly Rhys died a couple of months ago.

charlie was my great great great grandad i believe, bolsovers i know are part of my grandmas family

heres (http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL600/2588775/15796933/240631767.jpg) a scanned newspaprt clipping about him i have

I didn't read this first,as I've not been on here for a little while.
My God, your relation killed my relation...Think we'd both better get our coats !

I didn't read this first,as I've not been on here for a little while.
My God, your relation killed my relation...Think we'd both better get our coats !

yeah strange innit? :P

*gets coat*

Hello Whitehorses
Came on this forum by chance. I was in contact with Rhys Whatmore about a year ago. So sorry to hear he died-he kindly sent me lots of information about Arthur Dyson, and I sent him a copy of Charlie's death certificate.
Elsie May Bolsover was my Grandma. Her mother was Jane Anne Peace, Charlie Peace's daughter. I only found out about all this recently, but I have amassed quite a lot of stuff, and would be interested in speaking to anyone who may have information that I may not know about yet.
I suppose this has been done to death, but it's new to me, and I'm fascinated, particularly as no one in my family ever let it slip that I have such a notorious g g grandad! If ONLY they had talked about him!

Hi South'nsofty,
Thanks for posting.
When Rhys died he left all his papers to me, but unfortunately I haven't been able to collect them yet due to the distance involved, I'm sure he will have given you as much info as he'd got on Arthur Dyson.

Have you contacted Melthebell on here as you and he are almost certainly related?
It's all interesting stuff, though we maybe wouldn't have thought so if we lived in those times !:hihi:

Hello Whitehorses
Came on this forum by chance. I was in contact with Rhys Whatmore about a year ago. So sorry to hear he died-he kindly sent me lots of information about Arthur Dyson, and I sent him a copy of Charlie's death certificate.
Elsie May Bolsover was my Grandma. Her mother was Jane Anne Peace, Charlie Peace's daughter. I only found out about all this recently, but I have amassed quite a lot of stuff, and would be interested in speaking to anyone who may have information that I may not know about yet.
I suppose this has been done to death, but it's new to me, and I'm fascinated, particularly as no one in my family ever let it slip that I have such a notorious g g grandad! If ONLY they had talked about him!

yeah charles was my great great great? grandad too.......im related to the bolsovers

id be interested in seeing some of this stuff youve amassed if at all possible??

yeah charles was my great great great? grandad too.......im related to the bolsovers

id be interested in seeing some of this stuff youve amassed if at all possible??
Well that explains a lot Mel:hihi::hihi:
I'd be interested in hearing about your notorious past too as I'm into genealogy and local history as you know.:)

Well that explains a lot Mel:hihi::hihi:
I'd be interested in hearing about your notorious past too as I'm into genealogy and local hitory as you know.:)
well my notorious past normally involved alcohol, other substances, music and various punks, metallers and hippies Oo

Yes, that article was written by a relative of mine..Rhys Whatmore.Arthur Dyson was a distant relative of ours.Rhys received contact from Charlie Peace's great grandaughter quite recently.
Sadly Rhys died a couple of months ago.
Taxman and I were up at Ecclesall parish church taking photos of some graves for a lady in Australia today. We saw a number of Dyson graves up there and if I'd read the blog earlier I would have took more notice and a few pictures.:)

well my notorious past normally involved alcohol, other substances, music and various punks, metallers and hippies Oo

So did mine...Murders were bound to happen :hihi::suspect:
When I get the papers into my posession I'll see if there's owt of interest to you.

Taxman and I were up at Ecclesall parish church taking photos of some graves for a lady in Australia today. We saw a number of Dyson graves up there and if I'd read the blog earlier I would have took more notice and a few pictures.:)

Once I get all the papers relating to this and lots of other bits of Sheffield history, I'll probably put bits up on Sf if I think they're of interest.

So did mine...Murders were bound to happen :hihi::suspect:
When I get the papers into my posession I'll see if there's owt of interest to you.
ta (seems we're intertwined in more than just families :P)

i really need to get mi dad to send me the family tree, it was him that first discovered the charlie peace connection, ive only just started doing bits and pieces back from charlie........only half heartedly tbh, but then theres no point if mi dads already done it

just thought id bump this thread again since ive been rereading it and checking the links and looking on google street view :)

Hi Melthebel
Which one of the ten kids of Jane Anne do you descend from? Mine was Elsie May, she married Fred Wright and had 3 sons, Donald Ferguson (my Father) and Colin and Eric who was killed in the war (2nd!)

Hi Melthebel
Which one of the ten kids of Jane Anne do you descend from? Mine was Elsie May, she married Fred Wright and had 3 sons, Donald Ferguson (my Father) and Colin and Eric who was killed in the war (2nd!)

errrrrrrrm tbh ive no idea, i havent got that far, love to tho, my dad first found out the charlie peace connection i should ask him for the info

I've been trying to work out if you could be descended from one of the sisters who married and so changed her name. there were Mallinders, Andrews, Hutsons, Ashalls, ring any bells?

I've got it! Melthebel- Miriam Bell 1883-1976, married Charles H Bolsover 1884-1962, and had a son, also Chas H Bolsover born 1907- am I getting warm?

I've got it! Melthebel- Miriam Bell 1883-1976, married Charles H Bolsover 1884-1962, and had a son, also Chas H Bolsover born 1907- am I getting warm?
Errrm sorry im not a bell, thats just a nickname, i should pm really

Oh well, If you want to know a bit of your history, ask your older relations about previous christian and surnames, and I could probably help. Best of luck!

Oh well, If you want to know a bit of your history, ask your older relations about previous christian and surnames, and I could probably help. Best of luck!
thanks to rivelin for spending the past hour doing my family tree it turns out its Percy Archibald Bolsover (william and jane annes son) im related to, he married a mason and my grandma (on my dads side) has a mother thats a mason

thanks to rivelin for spending the past hour doing my family tree it turns out its Percy Archibald Bolsover (william and jane annes son) im related to, he married a mason and my grandma (on my dads side) has a mother thats a mason
You're very welcome, this makes you and south'nsofty 2nd cousins once removed.
See this chart it's very helpful.
www.islandregister.com/cousin.html

hey cous .....
lol

there is a full account of charlie peace on wikapdia

theres full accounts of his exploits all over the net, books and a couple of films

Hi cousin! Well done Rivelin- he got there before I did! I don't have that much on Percy Archibald (there's a name!) other than born 20 April 1893 in Attercliffe cum Darnal. Appears on 1901 census as living at 23 Catley Road Darnall (I looked it up on web and think it is no longer there) Same for 1911 census, when he lived at 431 Main Road Darnall, when he was a bogieman at Steel works, single aged 17. Married (Edna?) Mason 1914, and died aged 76 in 1969. I didn't find any military background- would have thought I might with WW1 and all that. I'll continue to look. I suppose you must know the family tree of old Charlie, perhaps not so much about the Mason side?

Hi cousin! Well done Rivelin- he got there before I did! I don't have that much on Percy Archibald (there's a name!) other than born 20 April 1893 in Attercliffe cum Darnal. Appears on 1901 census as living at 23 Catley Road Darnall (I looked it up on web and think it is no longer there) Same for 1911 census, when he lived at 431 Main Road Darnall, when he was a bogieman at Steel works, single aged 17. Married (Edna?) Mason 1914, and died aged 76 in 1969. I didn't find any military background- would have thought I might with WW1 and all that. I'll continue to look. I suppose you must know the family tree of old Charlie, perhaps not so much about the Mason side?
died 69?, the year i was born

1969 isn't all that long ago really- I wish I could talk to them all now. I used to get bored to tears when my Grandma used to talk about her family. When I started researching, I found myself saying "I remember her saying that!"
Oh, and he married Emily not Edna!

1969 isn't all that long ago really- I wish I could talk to them all now. I used to get bored to tears when my Grandma used to talk about her family. When I started researching, I found myself saying "I remember her saying that!"
Oh, and he married Emily not Edna!
i know how long ago it was, the whole of my life :D

if he died the year i was born it shows why i only ever remember a great grandma bolsover and not a great grandad, on the other hand i still had a great grandma and grandad on my mums side well into my life