Was reading the Council Leader's comments about traffic in Sheffield in The Stir last night (I know traffic has been threaded to death on here but here goes..). It was interesting to read about the integrated cycle lanes we have in Sheffield and how they have narrowed lanes throughout the city centre to introduce these cycle lanes.

Out of interest, has anyone actually ever seen anyone use the cycle lanes in the City Centre?

I ask this as a Council Tax payer, Car Tax payer, Fuel Duty Payer which has no doubt contributed to the cost of putting these things down.

Yes I have...ME :)

I would love to use the cycle lanes to go to and from work, but I have seen what happens to cyclists during the times I would be travelling in Sheffield and don't think I want to put myself at such a risk.

The cycle lanes are used by cars, parked in etc. and every day I see at least 5 neaar misses for cyclists while driving to and from work.

The lanes don't seem to go the route I want either. It's a shame we don't have them seperate to the roads and covering a full network of Sheffield.

Anyway, I am not prepared to risk my safety by cycling to work everyday, I will continue to drive until the routes are better and safer.

Cycle lanes, bus lanes and single-occupancy lanes are a great idea. However in this country, the powers that be completely miss the point - they are great when created as additional lanes, not when they are simply existing lanes converted for other uses.

There is a section of cycle lanes on Infirmary Road that suddenly disappear and you are left either trying to balance and ride between the kerb and the inside tram line or cycle in the middle of the road (much to the annoyance of tram drivers and cars alike). Talk about poor design.

sometimes the sheffield council amaze me. I cycle for pleasure @ weekends but the thought of a long cold,dangerous and sometimes wet journey to work on a monday morning doesnt appeal.
i now we have to do something about traffic in sheffield, but if the council think cycling is the answer their a bit nieve. i wonder how many council members ride their bikes to work?

I would happily cycle the 3 mile trip to work IF the cycle lanes were seperate from the roads and were safe.

I would love the extra fitness, less polution being put out and less congestion, but I am not risking my life for this with the current excuse for a cycle network that we have in Sheffield.

i agree lala.
the fact that a white line painted at the side of a road doesnt stop a car or bus hitting you.

Originally posted by EQUALIZER
i agree lala.
the fact that a white line painted at the side of a road doesnt stop a car or bus hitting you. Or people from parking in it.

There's also a couple of roads that I use to and from work where I see the cars form two lanes of traffic on a single lane road and block the cycle lane.

Also, on Bramal Lane today I saw a cyclist coming along at a normal pace and a car turn left without warning on to a side road and nearly collided with the cyclist who luckily realised what was happening and stopped. The driver didn't even apologise...

I can appreciate that this could happen regardless of correct cycle lanes as the driver was at fault, but we had seperate lanes then the cycle wouldn't be coming down the side of the car or would have longer to react.

I ride a motorcycle in the summer, mostly for fun, but I am very aware of the dangers while on that but feel safer than I would do if I used my cycle on the road.

We really need seperate, not marked off, cycle lanes where possible and some proper enforcement of cycle lanes.

If it's safe, I will use it and I am sure that others will too.

Right, I'm not going to put my cycling head on as I have done this a few times before and could take hours to read so I will keep it brief.
Cycle lanes, what are they for.
There for cyclists to ride in safety from other traffic.
Someone has already pointed out that cycle lanes are blocked with parked cars so give the cars a ticket and ensure the lane is clear.
However these lanes run along side the road where as if you go to Manchester they are seperated from the road by a kerb, in other words you can run along side traffic and not get clipped by a car. Now these lanes are 100% safe so Sheffield should adopt this method.
The new ring road being built at the moment hopefully will include a cycle lane which is seperate from the road but does not come into contact with pedestrians which is just as dangerous.
Knowing the highways department I can't see this happening.
To cut down on the ever increasing traffic problem it has to be put in place like a nulear bomb.
The shock tactic, bann all traffic exept deliverys into the City centre now.
people will then have no choice as to get public transport or ride a bike, I know its harsh but its the only way forward.
Forget town centre charging, that only benefits the better off so they can continue to polute the atmosphere while the poorer have to pay the price and help the enviroment.
The government should give people a grant if they are willing to cycle to work to purchase a bike and lower public transport charges because its still cheaper to drive to work than it is to get on a bus.
OK my post is starting to go away from the original thread but its all relevant.
So my theory is build more cycle lanes but keep them seperate from traffic and pedestrians, and if they are built this way then cars would be unable to park on them due to the curb that seperates them.

if we have a congestion problem in the city centre (presumably because people either have to travel through it or wish to go to it), how is the solution to ban cars. Sure the congestion is gone, wow, but no one is actually any better off as the people who have to travel through the centre have to use an even worse alternative route (moving the congestion) and people who want to travel too the centre are forced on unreliable and inadequate public transport.

Congestions is just a symptom, don't treat the symptons.

Originally posted by Cycleracer
Cycle lanes, what are they for.
There for cyclists to ride in safety from other traffic.
Someone has already pointed out that cycle lanes are blocked with parked cars so give the cars a ticket and ensure the lane is clear.
However these lanes run along side the road where as if you go to Manchester they are seperated from the road by a kerb, in other words you can run along side traffic and not get clipped by a car. Now these lanes are 100% safe so Sheffield should adopt this method.
The new ring road being built at the moment hopefully will include a cycle lane which is seperate from the road but does not come into contact with pedestrians which is just as dangerous.
I agree 100%

Originally posted by Cycleracer
[B]The shock tactic, bann all traffic exept deliverys into the City centre now.
people will then have no choice as to get public transport or ride a bike, I know its harsh but its the only way forward.
Forget town centre charging, that only benefits the better off so they can continue to polute the atmosphere while the poorer have to pay the price and help the enviroment.Ok, maybe a little harsh and I don't agree with this, but maybe somewhere in between??

Also, delivery drivers are one of the offenders for blocking cycle lanes and the sides of road which force cycles in to the traffic.

Just take a look outside Gilders on Ecclesall Road everytime they have a car delivery to see their deliveries parked on double yellows for ages, blocking traffic, reducing visibility and forcing cycles either on to the pavement or in to the middle of the busy road. This is pure neglect for other users of the road in my view.

It's not just here, but this is an example I see very often.

Originally posted by Cycleracer
[B]The government should give people a grant if they are willing to cycle to work to purchase a bike and lower public transport charges because its still cheaper to drive to work than it is to get on a bus.woah! Don't scare them off, if they think they have to put more cash in then help will fade out quickly.

I already have a bike, just the roads aren't safe enough. But maybe those that can prove they can't afford one could get some help towards a basic model?

Originally posted by Cycleracer
[B]So my theory is build more cycle lanes but keep them seperate from traffic and pedestrians, and if they are built this way then cars would be unable to park on them due to the curb that seperates them. HERE HERE!

This would benefit my health, the environment, congestion and also my pocket on fuel. Surely the health, environfment and cogestion are three of the major concerns we keep hearing about in the news? So why aren't Sheffield City Council taking active steps to have a go at helping these three key issues?

The cycle lanes in Sheffield are a joke and not much use.

Sheffield City Council take note, I AM A CAR DRIVER WILLING TO LEAVE MY CAR AT HOME AND CYCLE FOR THE 3 MILES I TRAVEL TO WORK AND THEN BACK EVERY DAY! Sort out the lanes and I will do it (not just me I am sure others will too)

I used to cycle everywhere but gave up for several reasons. 1. Because of the atitude of car drivers: deliberately squeezing into the kerb so I couldn't pass when car traffic slow, being abused, being knocked off several time because wasn't seen etc...
2. Cycle lanes, sharing with pedestrians and being told to dismount/give way to them - impossible, sharing with buses - not enough room for both etc..
3. The increase in the number of traffic lights, i.e. you build up momentum and then have to constantly stop for red lights

Shame really but there you go

Originally posted by MobileB
Was reading the Council Leader's comments about traffic in Sheffield in The Stir last night (I know traffic has been threaded to death on here but here goes..). It was interesting to read about the integrated cycle lanes we have in Sheffield and how they have narrowed lanes throughout the city centre to introduce these cycle lanes.

Out of interest, has anyone actually ever seen anyone use the cycle lanes in the City Centre?

I ask this as a Council Tax payer, Car Tax payer, Fuel Duty Payer which has no doubt contributed to the cost of putting these things down.

Please stop trolling us. Cycle lanes are a vital infrastructure for cyclists in Sheffield. Sheffield has a fair number of cyclists and there are plenty of people to use them.

Before you whine on about paying road tax consider that road tax does not go into a special road tax fund - it goes directly into the treasury. The road tax you pay doesn't even cover the cost of cleaning up the pollution that your car creates.

The highways are for the use of everyone: Motorists, pedestrians and cyclists alike and we all have a right to decent and useful provisions.

Please take your pompous "I'm a tax-payer" attitude away. As said before: Your fuel tax and road tax do not even cover the cost of cleaning up the polution that your car creates. Fuel is also taxed because oil is fast becoming a scarce commodity; but you knew that already.

Cycling is a very quick, clean and effecient way to commute around Sheffield without adding to congestion and causing more pollution and worse air quality.

You may not be a fan of cycling yourself but please do not use your oh so pompous attitude to shoot down those who do enjoy cycling in Sheffield.

Originally posted by ptigga
Please stop trolling us. Cycle lanes are a vital infrastructure for cyclists in Sheffield. Sheffield has a fair number of cyclists and there are plenty of people to use them.

Before you whine on about paying road tax consider that road tax does not go into a special road tax fund - it goes directly into the treasury. The road tax you pay doesn't even cover the cost of cleaning up the pollution that your car creates.

The highways are for the use of everyone: Motorists, pedestrians and cyclists alike and we all have a right to decent and useful provisions.

Please take your pompous "I'm a tax-payer" attitude away. As said before: Your fuel tax and road tax do not even cover the cost of cleaning up the polution that your car creates. Fuel is also taxed because oil is fast becoming a scarce commodity; but you knew that already.

Cycling is a very quick, clean and effecient way to commute around Sheffield without adding to congestion and causing more pollution and worse air quality.

You may not be a fan of cycling yourself but please do not use your oh so pompous attitude to shoot down those who do enjoy cycling in Sheffield. Not much point in adding to that, your quite correct and any motorist suggesting cyclists should pay tax wants to look deeper into the real problems which are caused by cars.
Do I get a refund when I take my bike and leave my car at home,, NO I don't so maybe you car drivers who moan about cyclists should try getting off your fat behinds and try riding a bike to work and help the asthmatics who's life is made a mysery caused by car exhausts.

You can see from this forum alone that feelings are high between road users that commute in cars and those on bikes, so surely the council would be better to seperate the lanes from the road, if only to lower the tension between the two.

Both groups have a right to use the road and both should be safe and courtious etc. without having to worry about the dangers of each other if possible.

Seperate lanes seem the way to go, but will we get them?

I can imagine the cost and disruption to put them in and the council only seems keen to dig up roads if it gets to close them off or turn it in to a one way system.

Hopefuly someone with sense will realise that we need better cycle routes soon and do something about it.

And please do not think this is just another rant from a cyclist fanatic, I am not. I drive a car everywhere just about (and my Motorbike), but would love the chance to use my cycle to commute if it was safer.

Originally posted by lalaland
You can see from this forum alone that feelings are high between road users that commute in cars and those on bikes, so surely the council would be better to seperate the lanes from the road, if only to lower the tension between the two.

Both groups have a right to use the road and both should be safe and courtious etc. without having to worry about the dangers of each other if possible.

Seperate lanes seem the way to go, but will we get them?

I can imagine the cost and disruption to put them in and the council only seems keen to dig up roads if it gets to close them off or turn it in to a one way system.

Hopefuly someone with sense will realise that we need better cycle routes soon and do something about it.

And please do not think this is just another rant from a cyclist fanatic, I am not. I drive a car everywhere just about (and my Motorbike), but would love the chance to use my cycle to commute if it was safer.

Cycle lanes are good when they allow cycles to go places cars can't; but cyclists will always have a place on the roads. Cycle lanes are good for contraflows and rotes where roads don't go but in most cases I much prefer cycling on the road to using a cycle lane that runs parallel to the road. Such cycle lanes are invariably so badly designed that they introduce severe obstacles at junctions with minor roads that make them more dangerous than cycling on the roads.

On the road you have right of way over vehicles entering from the side road; on the cycle path you have to slow down and be prepared to give way, not only to traffc emerging rom the side road, but also to idiot drivers who turn into the side road without checking the cyclepath first.

This country needs a model of cycle provision akin to that in Germany where 1) Cycles are licenced and face fines if they break the laws - in the same way that motorists do.
2) Cycles on cycle lanes have right of way over cars wanting to cross the cycle lane.

Originally posted by ptigga
This country needs a model of cycle provision akin to that in Germany where 1) Cycles are licenced and face fines if they break the laws - in the same way that motorists do.
2) Cycles on cycle lanes have right of way over cars wanting to cross the cycle lane. I'm all for these two suggestion, especially number one as this would cut down on the bad cyclists that tend to jump lights and cycle dangerously without any care as they feel untouchable.

This would then mean the roads are safer for both car and cycle users. (not totally safe, but it's an improvement if some idiots not bunny hopping off the kirb or flying around you at the lights etc.)

I have cycled to work and back all my adult life without a single accident (if we do not include the tram track incident).

I was told as a teenager to beleive that all car drivers were useless and dangerous. Advice that has kept me safe for 14 years!

Originally posted by lalaland
I'm all for these two suggestion, especially number one as this would cut down on the bad cyclists that tend to jump lights and cycle dangerously without any care as they feel untouchable.

This would then mean the roads are safer for both car and cycle users. (not totally safe, but it's an improvement if some idiots not bunny hopping off the kirb or flying around you at the lights etc.)

how does this work for children learning to ride? (the licensing i mean)

Originally posted by Cyclone
how does this work for children learning to ride? (the licensing i mean) Didn't think that children learned to ride on the road.

Originally posted by ptigga
Cycling is a very quick, clean and effecient way to commute around Sheffield without adding to congestion and causing more pollution and worse air quality.

You may not be a fan of cycling yourself but please do not use your oh so pompous attitude to shoot down those who do enjoy cycling in Sheffield.

I've probably said this before, unfortunately the terrian in and around Sheffield does not favour cyclists, too many damn hills, you need to be pretty fit and keen to cycle up East Bank Road for example. If Sheffield was flat like Cambridge or parts of Lincolnshire then yes it would be viable method of commuting around Sheffield.

Bring Back the Horse and Cart !

Originally posted by mega_monty
I've probably said this before, unfortunately the terrian in and around Sheffield does not favour cyclists, too many damn hills, you need to be pretty fit and keen to cycle up East Bank Road for example. If Sheffield was flat like Cambridge or parts of Lincolnshire then yes it would be viable method of commuting around Sheffield.

Bring Back the Horse and Cart !

You better tell that to me and the other cycle commuters then, there's plenty of them and none of them seem to be overly bothered by the hills.

Originally posted by ptigga
You better tell that to me and the other cycle commuters then, there's plenty of them and none of them seem to be overly bothered by the hills. Although it would be easier if the terrain was flatter, I look forward to maybe having the chance to ride on the Sheffield terrain and adding it to my current workout at the gym.

The hills will do you some good...

Originally posted by lalaland
Although it would be easier if the terrain was flatter, I look forward to maybe having the chance to ride on the Sheffield terrain and adding it to my current workout at the gym.

The hills will do you some good...

I would love to cycle to work and back but the route I know can get me there quicker than the bus is also the most dangerous, As said before some cycle lanes run out then you have to tackle a tram thats running behind you. I am not a cycling fanatic and I have never figured out why the cycle lanes go against the flow of traffic:confused: I have seen people nearly get run over by cars parked up coming out of the parking bay.

If it was safer to cycle then I would go to work and the gym on it.

I saw street farce marking more cycle lanes today on Abbey Lane, near the golf course area. If you get chance to go along here, then take a look at the cycle lanes on what is a very busy and considerably dangerous road!

They keep starting and stopping every few seconds with the word END after a few meters.

What's the point???

Originally posted by ptigga
You better tell that to me and the other cycle commuters then, there's plenty of them and none of them seem to be overly bothered by the hills.

Your probably what I would class as a keen cyclist, not like the average Joe public, hardly thousands of you reguarly cycling to work as opposed to commuters in cars or buses.

How many people do you see cycling to Asda, etc to do the family weekly shop, complete with a handful of small children to accomodate, not practical is it ?

What about service / utility workers do you expect them all to have old fashioned "butchers boy" bikes to transport their tools / equipment around ? again not prcatical

If you and other cyclist wish to cycle up steep hills, thats fine, but dont expect everyone else to. Sheffield is just not the right terrain to expect everone to give us their cars and migrate to push bikes in their thousands, its just not going to happen.

So how many steep hills do you cycle up, just for interest ?

East Bank Road anyone ?

Originally posted by lalaland
I saw street farce marking more cycle lanes today on Abbey Lane, near the golf course area. If you get chance to go along here, then take a look at the cycle lanes on what is a very busy and considerably dangerous road!

They keep starting and stopping every few seconds with the word END after a few meters.

What's the point???

Ah may the street force be with you! Always!!! I cycle down Penistone road after going Down Stannington road and Holme lane, it's a complete nightmare. Going home I do the same but go through Rivelin instead of going up stannington road (i'm not that fit yet) Rivelin has a cycle lane but the way people drive on there is stupid sometimes. That plus the cycle lanes are covered in wet mushed up leaves and is as slippy as the tram tracks (I have reported this and so far they have not been done)

Originally posted by lalaland
I saw street farce marking more cycle lanes today on Abbey Lane, near the golf course area. If you get chance to go along here, then take a look at the cycle lanes on what is a very busy and considerably dangerous road!

They keep starting and stopping every few seconds with the word END after a few meters.

What's the point???

The reason:-
Street Farce (like that!) put in obstructions (sorry pedestrian islands) in the middle of that road. If you look you'll see the islands have made the road v narrow at one side and wider at the other side. To try and stop cyclists getting scraped off on the narrow part of the design cock up, they've painted the red cycle lane at each of the offending islands.
Turn up Bocking Lane(?) and you'll see daft bits of kerb that stick out and form chicanes with the centre islands. Try riding your bike round that lot with cars passing that can only just fit the gaps - no room for you.

Originally posted by mega_monty
how many steep hills do you cycle up, just for interest ?

East Bank Road anyone ? LOL,if your going to talk about steep hills then at least mention one.
East Bank Rd, is a hill not at all steep.

East bank Rd is a bump not a hill!!.
Try going up Winnats (is that how you spell it?)pass!. Now THAT'S a hill :D

Cycling is not as much about being fit as people think. I am in no way slim but i manage to ride up Duke St and part of City Rd every day. Failing that, i ride up Manor Lane (depending on the weather).

If i do any work on one of my bikes i use East bank Rd as part of a test circuit.

Whoever said that cycle lanes are well used is talking utter rubbish.

I've lived in Sheffield since September last year and in that time, I am lucky if I have seen three cyclists using cycle lanes in that time.

Youd think that the city centre ones would be frequently used - Er No they aren't. The one on Pinstone Street for example, which runs the opposite way to the traffic. Never seen one.

Queens Road Bus/Cycle Lane (what numpty put them two together :suspect: ) - Never seen one.

I've seen a couple of cyclists using the roads and have seen one using a cycle lane at the Shoreham Street/St Marys Road crossroads on the edge of town.

Thats it.

The lanes are cropping up everywhere around the city centre and yet nobody seems to use them. I've seen loads of bikes at Hallam Uni, but never anybody approaching a bike park or leaving one.

These bikes must have phantom owners.

And before anyone says i'm not observant, I am. I'm at uni studying town planning, and so i'm always aware of what's happening, particularly in the city centre.

Cars use the road and have to pay tax
Buses use the road and have to pay tax
Lorries use the road and have to pay tax

Cyclists don't though. Not fair is it?

Yes, yes cars pollute and, to quote ptigga....

The road tax you pay doesn't even cover the cost of cleaning up the pollution that your car creates.

Course it doesn't. You can't put a price on pollution. What is true though is that far more funds come out of the road network than is ploughed into it.

Joe Public in his car is paying more tax to use less road these days. Many of them now have 24 hour, or peak time bus lanes, cycle lanes, or have been narrowed (Arundel Gate) to accommodate anyone and everyone BUT the car user.

If the government succeed in driving people out of their cars, they will be shooting themselves in the foot as the taxes that the were paying, which fund a variety of different things, will go into the pockets of First instead.

And then our roads will become a state with no money to improve them. Sure, buses wont be subsidised, which'll save Mr Blair a bit, but there will be a huge hole in the treasury.

The car is not the devil. We car drivers pay a lot of tax and I think its only fair that cyclists should contribute a bit as well.

Originally posted by Cycleracer
The government should give people a grant if they are willing to cycle to work to purchase a bike and lower public transport charges because its still cheaper to drive to work than it is to get on a bus.

Speak to your employer.

Some have schemes where you can purchase a bicycle at a reduced price, thanks to tax, NI and VAT refunds provided that you 'mainly' use your bike to travel to and from work.

It's on your bike and apply the tax breaks (http://money.guardian.co.uk/tax/story/0,1456,1307166,00.html)

Originally posted by dinp
Whoever said that cycle lanes are well used is talking utter rubbish.

I've lived in Sheffield since September last year and in that time, I am lucky if I have seen three cyclists using cycle lanes in that time.

Youd think that the city centre ones would be frequently used - Er No they aren't. The one on Pinstone Street for example, which runs the opposite way to the traffic. Never seen one.

Queens Road Bus/Cycle Lane (what numpty put them two together :suspect: ) - Never seen one.

I've seen a couple of cyclists using the roads and have seen one using a cycle lane at the Shoreham Street/St Marys Road crossroads on the edge of town.

Thats it.

The lanes are cropping up everywhere around the city centre and yet nobody seems to use them. I've seen loads of bikes at Hallam Uni, but never anybody approaching a bike park or leaving one.

These bikes must have phantom owners.

And before anyone says i'm not observant, I am. I'm at uni studying town planning, and so i'm always aware of what's happening, particularly in the city centre.

Cars use the road and have to pay tax
Buses use the road and have to pay tax
Lorries use the road and have to pay tax

Cyclists don't though. Not fair is it?

Yes, yes cars pollute and, to quote ptigga....



Course it doesn't. You can't put a price on pollution. What is true though is that far more funds come out of the road network than is ploughed into it.

Joe Public in his car is paying more tax to use less road these days. Many of them now have 24 hour, or peak time bus lanes, cycle lanes, or have been narrowed (Arundel Gate) to accommodate anyone and everyone BUT the car user.

If the government succeed in driving people out of their cars, they will be shooting themselves in the foot as the taxes that the were paying, which fund a variety of different things, will go into the pockets of First instead.

And then our roads will become a state with no money to improve them. Sure, buses wont be subsidised, which'll save Mr Blair a bit, but there will be a huge hole in the treasury.

The car is not the devil. We car drivers pay a lot of tax and I think its only fair that cyclists should contribute a bit as well.

Do you have to have a licence for those opinions? I've lived here 7 years and I can safely say that everything you've said in this post is a comple load of twaddle.

Lets take your more coherent points one by one:

1) Pinestone street cycle lane: I use it a fiar bit myself - I woudn't like to count but I'm guessing about 3 times a month. And I know it gets used at least once a day by a bloke in a reflective jacket who uses it on his commute - but that's not the point. That is a counterflow cycleway - it allows cycles to go in the opposite direction to the traffic without getting off and walking. It also does not have any detrimental effect on the rest of the road. The road would not be any more useful if the cyckeway was removed (except that the Panasonic Shop would have to park their skips on the pavement instead of on the cycleway).

2) Bus/Cycle lane. All bus lanes in Sheffield are cycle lanes. What the bloody hell is your problem with this. Is there something wrong about using a cycle in a bus lane that you'd like to tell me about.

3) You've seen a couple of cyclists using the roads: Do you walk around with your eyes shut? I'm absolutely positive that you have seen more than two cyclists using the roads in Sheffield in the space of a year.

4) Cycles don't pay road tax. Neither do pedestrians? Shall we dig up all the pavements and turn them into roads? Cars only pay road tax in order to provide money to a) build more roads to cope with the congestion created by the cars. b) deal with the pollution problems caused by cars. Why would we want to tax cyclists? They don't pollute and they don't cause congestion.

5) Joe Public is paying more tax to use less road: Well boo hoo! Do you suddenly have a god given right to use you car for every single journey? Have you not considered how selfish it is to force your pollution on other people? Do you really need to take you car everywhere? Have you forgotten how to walk?

6) Lots of bikes at Hallam Uni. Yes there are. If you look at the bike racks at 11 oclock at night then you'll notice that there's a lot less bikes on there than at 11 oclock in the morning. They may not arrive and park all at the same time but I know for a fact that those bike stands are well used every day. I work right near them.

Originally posted by ptigga
Do you have to have a licence for those opinions? I've lived here 7 years and I can safely say that everything you've said in this post is a comple load of twaddle.

No it isn't, most of its observational. Not calling me a liar are you?

Lets take your more coherent points one by one:

1) Pinestone street cycle lane: I use it a fiar bit myself - I woudn't like to count but I'm guessing about 3 times a month. And I know it gets used at least once a day by a bloke in a reflective jacket who uses it on his commute - but that's not the point. That is a counterflow cycleway - it allows cycles to go in the opposite direction to the traffic without getting off and walking. It also does not have any detrimental effect on the rest of the road. The road would not be any more useful if the cyckeway was removed (except that the Panasonic Shop would have to park their skips on the pavement instead of on the cycleway).

Put it this way. I have never got in the way of a cyclist whilst crossing that road. I'm guilty of not looking in the direction of where a cyclist would come from and was sure that, by now, i'd have an irate cyclist shouting at me for getting in ther way. I haven't. Ever. I'm not debating the size of this road or the cycle lane's effect upon it, so calm down.

2) Bus/Cycle lane. All bus lanes in Sheffield are cycle lanes. What the bloody hell is your problem with this. Is there something wrong about using a cycle in a bus lane that you'd like to tell me about.

I'm glad you asked. Bus drivers are the most dangerous and inconsiderate people on the roads in Sheffield. Putting them next to a vulnerable cyclist on the same lane of traffic is nothing short of a death wish.

I cycle myself sometimes and would rather be in a lane of cars than a lane of buses - especially SHEFFIELD buses of all things.

3) You've seen a couple of cyclists using the roads: Do you walk around with your eyes shut? I'm absolutely positive that you have seen more than two cyclists using the roads in Sheffield in the space of a year.

And i'm absolutely positive that I have not. Again you are implying that i'm a liar. I told you I am observant and what I have observed is that Sheffield's cycle lanes are worse than chronically underused.

4) Cycles don't pay road tax. Neither do pedestrians? Shall we dig up all the pavements and turn them into roads? Cars only pay road tax in order to provide money to a) build more roads to cope with the congestion created by the cars. b) deal with the pollution problems caused by cars. Why would we want to tax cyclists? They don't pollute and they don't cause congestion.

I expected this kind of response to be honest. Cars and cyclists arent allowed on pavements. They both use the same piece of tarmac, yet one is charged tax and one is not. I'm not suggesting that they pay much, as the wear and tear caused by them is minimal, but a contribution would be nice and fair.

Also, on that note, what if a cyclist causes a car to crash? What about his license documents? Insurance? Was the bike roadworthy? Again, it seems that the motorist, in more ways than one, is being penalised YET AGAIN.

5) Joe Public is paying more tax to use less road: Well boo hoo! Do you suddenly have a god given right to use you car for every single journey? Have you not considered how selfish it is to force your pollution on other people? Do you really need to take you car everywhere? Have you forgotten how to walk?

Once again, you are trying to paint a picture of me as some kind of pompous ogre. I walk into town and into uni. I enjoy walking thankyou very much.

Don't give me boo hoo, this is a genuine concern, not just mine either. Mr Motorist is being fleeced left right and centre for cash and then this cash is used to make life as difficult as humanly possible for them! Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth!

All the paint and red/green tarmac used for these cycle lanes will come from the motorist. Its a waste of time and money if no bugger actually uses them!

When pollution free cars come at a price I can afford, I will buy one, honestly. My car has a small engine (1.1) so its not a chronic polluter. Not a getout clause at all, but this congestion is partly being caused by the bus lanes/cycle lanes.

If public transport took me where I want when I wanted in decent comfort I would ditch my car. I dont see this happening though, do you?

6) Lots of bikes at Hallam Uni. Yes there are. If you look at the bike racks at 11 oclock at night then you'll notice that there's a lot less bikes on there than at 11 oclock in the morning. They may not arrive and park all at the same time but I know for a fact that those bike stands are well used every day. I work right near them.

There was a hint of sarcasm in that paragraph. Of course there will be less bikes at 11pm than 11am. Doesn't change the fact that I have yet to see anyone approach or leave these bike parks.

You failed to address the paragraph about funding if car drivers were driven out of their cars. Care to explain why.....

Originally posted by Cycleracer
LOL,if your going to talk about steep hills then at least mention one.
East Bank Rd, is a hill not at all steep.

Originally posted by vidster
East bank Rd is a bump not a hill!!.
Try going up Winnats (is that how you spell it?)pass!. Now THAT'S a hill :D

Cycling is not as much about being fit as people think. I am in no way slim but i manage to ride up Duke St and part of City Rd every day. Failing that, i ride up Manor Lane (depending on the weather).

If i do any work on one of my bikes i use East bank Rd as part of a test circuit.

Agreed its not the steepest gradient in Sheffield, its more of long drawn out process over a distance. But again how many cyclists do you see on daily basis commuting to work up East Bank Road ? probably nil, yet another pointless cycle track taking up road space just for the sake of it.

What i'm trying to say: The average member of public do not find it aceptable to cycle up steep gradients in Sheffield. If cycling was such an excellant mode of transport around Sheffield there would have already been thousands of cyclists taking to the roads years ago, long before the council introduced these ad hock cycle tracks.

What we did have in Sheffield was cheap reliable public transport, that cost 2p and 5p at a time, hence cheaper to use public transport than your car, but Mrs T put a stop to that. If your wanting to reduce the number of cars then invest in cheap / reliable public transport rather that trying to ram bicycles down peoples throats.

Originally posted by mega_monty
Agreed its not the steepest gradient in Sheffield, its more of long drawn out process over a distance. But again how many cyclists do you see on daily basis commuting to work up East Bank Road ? probably nil, yet another pointless cycle track taking up road space just for the sake of it.

What i'm trying to say: The average member of public do not find it aceptable to cycle up steep gradients in Sheffield. If cycling was such an excellant mode of transport around Sheffield there would have already been thousands of cyclists taking to the roads years ago, long before the council introduced these ad hock cycle tracks.

What we did have in Sheffield was cheap reliable public transport, that cost 2p and 5p at a time, hence cheaper to use public transport than your car, but Mrs T put a stop to that. If your wanting to reduce the number of cars then invest in cheap / reliable public transport rather that trying to ram bicycles down peoples throats.

Exactly - nuf_said. Whoever voted for Mrs T should get on their bike! The v cheap buses (leading towards being free!) were a truly social minded ideal. The cheap bus system meant we didn't have all the road building, and now road destroying, etc. It also meant the people who chose to use cars weren't in much of a traffic jam - the system helped everyone. Well done M.T. and all who voted for you.

Ref bikes - you're spot on.

I do not see what the problem is with having a cycle lane on East bank Rd?. It's not like the road isn't wide enough to support one!.

Originally posted by dinp
I'm glad you asked. Bus drivers are the most dangerous and inconsiderate people on the roads in Sheffield. I consider them to be in second place to some of the black cabs in Sheffield.

I witnessed an arse in a bus the other day though near Snig Hill Police station (the road that runs from it to Westbar Police station and passes the Travel Inn).

There was someone parked up in a car at the side of the road, looked to be dropping off a parcel or something to an office at the side of the road. This bus came up behind him and instead of going around him, as there was plenty of space, he just deliberately moved up behind him, ignored his signals and beeped at him a few times.

Now imagine if this car was broken down...

Anyway, the bus eventually did move around him, but he backed up the traffic on that road and all because the driver of that bus was being an arse and had a problem with a vehicle being parked there for a second (it was clear to me walking past that he was dropping something off or waiting for someone to get in the car etc. so why did the Bus driver not act responsible and go around him??)

Back on to the thread subject, I see many many many cyclists every day on my trip to and from work, so I am not sure how you think that the cycle lanes aren't used??:confused:

If that's how observant you are then judging by our current town planners you are going in to the right career it would seem :hihi:

Originally posted by lalaland
I saw street farce marking more cycle lanes today on Abbey Lane, near the golf course area. If you get chance to go along here, then take a look at the cycle lanes on what is a very busy and considerably dangerous road!

They keep starting and stopping every few seconds with the word END after a few meters.

What's the point???

Don't get me started on these.

I use abbey lane several times a week and it is a very popular route with cyclists particularly at the weekend doing the Castleton run.

Since they have put these pinch points in it makes it very dangerous for cyclists as in forces car drivers to make a decision either to slow down or force there way past you.

I have emailed the council about this and they replied that when building roads they have to put pedestrians before cyclists.

I think they should look at alternative road calming schemes as these are so unfriendly to cyclists.

On the subject of hills in Sheffield it is part of the fun of cycling learning to tackle them you need to build your strength gradually but it is very satisfying when you master them.

A mountain bike with easy gears can really help with this as long as you cycle slowly they are nowhere near as hard as you may think.

The only hill I can not tackle is winatts pass on the road bike man that hill is steep I think it is one of the steepest in the uk.

If I remember rightly hard knott pass in the lakes is the steepest.

Originally posted by Fudbeer
Don't get me started on these.

Since they have put these pinch points in it makes it very dangrous for cyclists as in forces car drivers to make a decision either to slow down or force there way past you.

I have emailed the council about this and they replied that when building roads they have to put pedestrians before cyclists.




Well done for contacting the council - I gave up speaking to brick walls many years ago. Their response to you was as daft as I'd expect.

They claim the islands are to help pedestrians to cross the road - the real reason being to disrupt traffic flow. However, if the had put the islands in the middle of the road, and not to one side, they would have avoided the tight points which make it dangerous for cyclclists. Why not take care of pedestrians and cyclists together?

The painted cycle lanes about 10m long are to enable the council to blame anyone but them when there's an accident - even though it's their incompetent design failure to blame.

Can these highway people walk and talk at the same time?

So we all seem to agree then, Sheffield City Council don't seem to give a damn about cyclists in the city and their efforts to provide them with a safe route to cycle on are far from satisfactory.

Poor effort council....

Originally posted by lalaland
If that's how observant you are then judging by our current town planners you are going in to the right career it would seem :hihi:

I'm going where the money is :D

So how many steep hills do you cycle up, just for interest ?

East Bank Road anyone ? [/B][/QUOTE]

Derbyshire Lane! Thats about as steep as it gets. And I'm not a fitness fanatic, just an ordinary woman happy to get a bit of exersize on my way home from work.

I've cycled up East Bank Road, Derbyshire Lane, and even the steepest road in Sheffield... Blake Street. If more people cycled then Sheffield would be a much more healthy city even for the people who can't cycle.

I can't remember the name of all the hills i have cycled up, maybe someone will help fill in the blanks.

The only hill i find that is anywhere near Winnatts pass is at the top of Rivelin. It starts where the post office is and then goes up and up and up.........

I have done all the big climbs in Sheffield except Blake St.

I prefer the longer climbs such as the A57 Moscar hill, Froggatt and Baslow hill. I like to talk to the hill when it's getting tough. There are lots of occasions when i find myself saying "You're not beating me you b*$***d, even if i die at the top, i'm going to make it".

Anyone riding with me must think i'm :loopy:

The road tax as you call it is a vehicle excise license to operate an engine powered vehicle on the highway, regarding the bus lanes most of them operate for a few hours in the morning and again at night the rest of the time they are used as car parks classic example of this is ecclesall road, so you have a road with 4 lanes suddenly cut down to 2 for most of the day.

The good thing about using bus lanes is the frequency of buses compared to the frequency of cars, I have rarely cycled through town or anywhere and not seen another cyclist, cycle lanes should be accompanied with double yellow lines to stop parking in them.
I use the trans-penine trail a lot so you would probably not see me on the afore mentioned cycle lanes but i also use east bank road, gleadless road, granville/city road a lot and apart from east bank you do not see many cycle lanes, the council look at them as a token gesture and many start and finish within a few yards and are as useful as a chocolate teapot, the most stupid things they are doing now is narrowing the road at traffic lights classic example suffolk road where you approach the lights just before the B & C funeral place and the road narrows and throws you into the road then all of a sudden a cycle lane appears through the lights.
It is time the council planners got off their fat backsides and took a good long look at the chaos they are creating.

Hiya,
does anyone else get really angry about the crapness of cycle lanes in sheffield. Putting a three meter stretch here and a two meter stretch there does not qualify a 'cycle friendly city' I know the council has a quota to fill but its insulting to think that by putting bits and bobs of cycle lanes around the city you are providing cyclists with a decent service.

What are the council's plans?

Does anyone know?

Mod Note: Threads Merged. Please search before starting a new topic

this is a really interesting thread

the problem in sheffield seems to be that the council put a lot of poorly designed, incoherent and stop-start cycle lanes on every road they can, thinking that this will encourage more people to cycle.

the comments that cars and bikes need to be separate (like all the way down Oxford Road in Manchester) is a really good one; you feel so much safer if there's a formal break between you. I also agree that paths running counter to the flow of one way traffic are pointless.

But I think equally important are having just a few really good major cycle lanes, that all meet up in the city centre. You could have the bitty, rather pointless ones leading into these: but once you were on a major one, you'd know it went straight to the city and didn't stop and start in between.

The best cycle paths can be very busy: the path across Dev Green or along Broadfield road are good examples. Cycle lanes don't even need to be along roads: through parks, across public squares, along rivers. They can be interesting routes into the city in their own right; but only if they keep you separate from traffic and don't disappear.

What I think this thread says is:we don't need more cycle lanes, we need better ones.