I had been feeling this way for a little while, and although HSBC had been a little more welcoming and helpful since I left my 'student' status behind, today they finally made me realise that since they changed from being Midland Bank to HSBC they truly stopped being 'the listening bank' and became a cold financial organisation that has little time for it's customers when they need help.

Since I started my new career things have been tight and I've tried to budget myself since I started work but it's not easy as I'm still on a fairly low wage and in the last couple of months I've gone into my overdraft by a few pounds when the bills have been coming out. Nothing above £50/£60 but it's happened twice in the last two months and the bank have been charging me, as you'd probably expect.

With Christmas coming up I only had a budget of about £60 until the 23rd of the month when I get a couple of wages in and my rent has gone out but thanks to a badly timed direct debit I was charged £30 for the bounce and a further £36 for being overdrawn for a couple of days last month. With this direct debit going out I would've been overdrawn for a maximum of 3 days before my next wage went in to put me back in the black. I've had this before and I spoke to one of the advisors about it. At that time she agreed to refund the charges as a goodwill gesture and I'd hoped that this time I would be able to explain the situation and that someone might be able to help me out. No such luck. I went to the girl at the cashier's desk and asked to speak to someone about my bank charges. She came back after a couple of minutes saying that there was nobody available as they were in meetings. I explained that I needed to speak to someone because I'd budgetted for Christmas and the charges had completely wiped out the money I'd put aside and now I'd have no money for presents or going out over Christmas. She went back to the managers and came back saying that nobody had time and even if they did that they wouldn't talk to me about 'just bank charges' anyway. Now that's customer service isn't it!

When I was a student I had a bit of a problem once where I had no money for food and the bank refused to talk to me about it or help. They just said, sorry there's nothing we can do. For a company that claims to know alot about it's customers they are desperately lacking in understanding. I spoke to some woman on the phone when I got home but she said exactly the same that because I'd been overdrawn this month and last that she was unable to help and was very abrupt with me on the phone. In the end i told her that I'd had enough and put the phone down. Not really my style as I'm generally quite polite and friendly on the phone but I'd had enough of being treated like a kid who needed to learn the hard way.

I've made an appointment with Lloyds TSB for Friday where I intend to open two new accounts, one for bills and another for spending and I'll be transferring everything over asap. I'm certainly not the worst customer HSBC have had and I never give them hassle on the phone or in the branch but clearly someone like me who doesn't have alot of cash is less important to them than their richer customers. I heard a saying a little while ago about banks. They're like someone who gives you an umbrella when it's dry weather and takes it away when it's raining. This statement certainly applies to HSBC and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this.

Rant over. :)

Go with Natwest mate.
They're committed to having more staff in branch and only operating UK based call centres.

So not only are you supporting a company keeping jobs in the UK, you're getting a decent back to boot.

Me n the missus are with HSBC at the moment and we'll be changing to Natwest soon enough.
HSBC have gone seriously down hill of late!

I'm with Barclays and I rate their service; the staff are always very helpful and knowledgeable.

I received two unwanted phone calls from a Barclays call centre in the space of ten days or so and was less than happy about it, so called into the branch. Explained the situation to the advisor and they amended my account so that, under no circumstances will they telephone again.

Also, I went overdrawn once (before I was a student), only by a few pounds and it was an oversight on my part that caused it to happen. Called into the branch to enquire as to what the charges would be for it.

"No charge" they said. "We know you get paid weekly so its allowed the transaction".

I've had trouble with HSBC as well. My friend transferred money from his HSBC account to my Nationwide one on the internet. Took about 3 weeks of to-ing and fro-ing between the two banks to sort it out and it was HSBC's fault.

Another reason I prefer Barclays is that I got a debit card at 16 and a better one at 18, no questions asked. Nationwide is harder to get debit cards from and HSBC were offering a Solo card, which, at the time, was worse than Visa Electron (from Barclays) in terms of useability.

Originally posted by Pauly
I heard a saying a little while ago about banks. They're like someone who gives you an umbrella when it's dry weather and takes it away when it's raining. This statement certainly applies to HSBC and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this.


Unfortunately, Pauly, I think you'll find this is the case with every bank. When things are going well, they'll be falling over themselves to lend you money for holidays, cars and other luxury items - if you need a temporary loan for something vital like food, they'll slam the door in your face.

They simply don't care about their customers. Sad, but true.

StarSparkle :(

So they refunded you once already as a goodwill gesture? Would this not have prompted you to make sure it didnt happen again in case there were no more goodwill gestures?

I fail to see why the bank is at fault, you a had a lucky escape once before and expect them to do it again. I'm afraid, in my eyes, you only have yourself to blame.






ps I think they're great, they pay me 30k a year, mortgage subsidy, low loan rates etc etc

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
Go with Natwest mate.
They're committed to having more staff in branch and only operating UK based call centres.



At the moment - watch this space...........

Originally posted by coopster1974
ps I think they're great, they pay me 30k a year, mortgage subsidy, low loan rates etc etc

Eh? So they haven't outsourced your job to India then....yet

But watch this space as well...... :D

Originally posted by Abdul
Eh? So they haven't outsourced your job to India then....yet

But watch this space as well...... :D

If only, I think we're bucking the trend where I work. Overseas offices are closing and we're taking on their work!!

Originally posted by Abdul
Eh? So they haven't outsourced your job to India then....yet

But watch this space as well......




He needs to train the people whom the jobs will be outsourced to first. ;)

see above - just a little too slow on that one lickz ;)

Originally posted by coopster1974
If only, I think we're bucking the trend where I work. Overseas offices are closing and we're taking on their work!!

Hey that's risky...with a population of over 1billion, HSBC wouldn't want the Indians to be taking their business elsewhere.

Say Hi to Jonathan (the IBM engineer) when you next see him

Originally posted by coopster1974
At the moment - watch this space...........
LOL just cos you work for a s*** company :lol:

Originally posted by Lickszz
He needs to train the people whom the jobs will be outsourced to first. ;)

I did read (on this forum, I think) that the trainers would fly over there on separate planes (in case one crashed) but would fly back together...hmmm

Take care coopster, and be wary if your bosses over you the chance to go over there

;)

Here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=39036#post39036) is the post and here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3817) is the thread it came from.

IMHO:

Banks are pretty much all the same.

They're just there for their own benefit (not yours) to make LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of money (for them not you).

They 'understand' all too well ... that is they understand the business of making a profit ... they don't give a rat's ass about you or anyone else Pauly ... (and why should they care ... is there any profit in caring?) ... and the degree to which they'll be nice to you will be directly proportional to how much profit they can make from you.

People just don't care anymore ... money is way more important than human life / human happiness.

That's just the way it seems to be.

Not that I like it either.

My two pennyworth:

Halifax - IB is second-to none, shame that cannot be said for their branch banking.

HSBC - Diabolical, and I mean diabolical.

DDs - Pot luck weather that "work" or not, the branch staff are OK, their telephone banking is a joke - it closes at 2200!
I'm not impressed with their layout of their IB either.

Lloyds-TSB: They're friendly, efficient, IB seems OK. Telephone banking seems OK.

Natwest: I wouldn't give them a chocolate fireguard to look after, never mind finances. I have heard that money goes missing and allsorts of poor things with them.


Side notes:

Woolwich and Barclays are practically the same people - Barclays own Woolwich.

First Direct and HSBC are the same people.

When Lloyds and TSB merged the way it worked was:

TSB shut and merged with Lloyds, they now have Lloyds and TSB staff in the same building using Lloyds' way of banking, with TSBs computer sytem.

When I joined Lloyds-TSB, they scanned my signature on the computer. HSBC do not hold a copy of my signature anywhere....

Alex

Originally posted by Pauly
I had been feeling this way for a little while, and although HSBC had been a little more welcoming and helpful since I left my 'student' status behind, today they finally made me realise that since they changed from being Midland Bank to HSBC they truly stopped being 'the listening bank' and became a cold financial organisation that has little time for it's customers when they need help.

Since I started my new career things have been tight and I've tried to budget myself since I started work but it's not easy as I'm still on a fairly low wage and in the last couple of months I've gone into my overdraft by a few pounds when the bills have been coming out. Nothing above £50/£60 but it's happened twice in the last two months and the bank have been charging me, as you'd probably expect.

With Christmas coming up I only had a budget of about £60 until the 23rd of the month when I get a couple of wages in and my rent has gone out but thanks to a badly timed direct debit I was charged £30 for the bounce and a further £36 for being overdrawn for a couple of days last month. With this direct debit going out I would've been overdrawn for a maximum of 3 days before my next wage went in to put me back in the black. I've had this before and I spoke to one of the advisors about it. At that time she agreed to refund the charges as a goodwill gesture and I'd hoped that this time I would be able to explain the situation and that someone might be able to help me out. No such luck. I went to the girl at the cashier's desk and asked to speak to someone about my bank charges. She came back after a couple of minutes saying that there was nobody available as they were in meetings. I explained that I needed to speak to someone because I'd budgetted for Christmas and the charges had completely wiped out the money I'd put aside and now I'd have no money for presents or going out over Christmas. She went back to the managers and came back saying that nobody had time and even if they did that they wouldn't talk to me about 'just bank charges' anyway. Now that's customer service isn't it!

When I was a student I had a bit of a problem once where I had no money for food and the bank refused to talk to me about it or help. They just said, sorry there's nothing we can do. For a company that claims to know alot about it's customers they are desperately lacking in understanding. I spoke to some woman on the phone when I got home but she said exactly the same that because I'd been overdrawn this month and last that she was unable to help and was very abrupt with me on the phone. In the end i told her that I'd had enough and put the phone down. Not really my style as I'm generally quite polite and friendly on the phone but I'd had enough of being treated like a kid who needed to learn the hard way.

I've made an appointment with Lloyds TSB for Friday where I intend to open two new accounts, one for bills and another for spending and I'll be transferring everything over asap. I'm certainly not the worst customer HSBC have had and I never give them hassle on the phone or in the branch but clearly someone like me who doesn't have alot of cash is less important to them than their richer customers. I heard a saying a little while ago about banks. They're like someone who gives you an umbrella when it's dry weather and takes it away when it's raining. This statement certainly applies to HSBC and I'm sure I'm not the only one to think this.

Rant over. :)

Sounds like you have had it pretty crap with the world's "local bank" (the world's most moronic bank may possibly be a more apt name for them).

9 months with HSBC was long enough to realise how poor they really are.

I've made an appointment with Lloyds TSB for Friday where I intend to open two new accounts, one for bills and another for spendin

Yup, you'll never look back.

What also pees me off is in Bexleyheath, all of the banks are next to each other. Halifax, Barclays, Aliance and Leicester, Abbey and a bit further down the road Lloyds TSB, Nationwide, Woolwich.

HSBC - 3 miles - literally down in Crook Log - FFS!

Alex

Originally posted by amhudson119
When I joined Lloyds-TSB, they scanned my signature on the computer. HSBC do not hold a copy of my signature anywhere....

Alex

Are you sure? They should do. You will have either completed a signature card upon opening your account or they will have mentioned it at some point.

The sigs are scanned in and SHOULD be used to compare against whenever you sign owt.

Might be worth asking about next time you speak to them just to clarify things.

Anyway back on track - It looks like most banks shaft some people some of the time. It therefore makes sense to stop using banks altogether and utilise the mattress!

Damn! That would put me out of a job...........how do I edit a post?

Originally posted by amhudson119
....some crap.... blah blah

Alex
And there we were hoping you'd keep your word and not use Sheffield Forum again after your post on Digital Spy the other day.
You remember the one.... you were whinging about t020 getting banned and complaining about this forum.

Here it is (http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=173324) in case it's slipped your mind :lol:

Originally posted by Dirk Diggler
And there we were hoping you'd keep your word and not use Sheffield Forum again after your post on Digital Spy the other day.
You remember the one.... you were whinging about t020 getting banned and complaining about this forum.

Here it is (http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=173324) in case it's slipped your mind :lol:

Fair enough.

Possibly "leaving" is not the correct word - "posting less" is maybe what I should have put.

Alex

Originally posted by amhudson119
When I joined Lloyds-TSB, they scanned my signature on the computer. HSBC do not hold a copy of my signature anywhere....

I'd like to bet they do mate... when I went to pick-up my credit card from the branch they made me sign a slip... the women went into the back and came back out and said my signiture was ok... so I questioned her, and she showed me on the screen...

she said it was quite surprising my signiture hadnt changed that much since I was 11 when I opened my account... lol...

HSBC have been ok with me so far, last month I was in a bit of a bind cus of my tuition fees were going to come out and it would have put me over my overdraft limit, my mum was giving me some money to cover my fees but I wasnt sure if it would go in before the money came out...

rang HSBC up in a panic and the woman said not to worry as from what she could see my tuition fees wernt due to come out in the next 48hrs so there was a chance I'd be ok, and if they did come out before the money went in then if I rang up the finance section they'd most likely sort things out and forget any charges as I'd made an attempt to cover things...

to be honest I think all banks suck, but at least HSBC aint making no money from me at the moment as I'm in my interest free overdraft and not in credit... lol... although hopefully i'll be back in the black soon :D once I get paid and I get my student loan!

Roll on the end of the month!!

I've found HSBC pretty good - the internet banking is better than other banks I've seen, and I haven't had any problems with 'unfair' charges (they seem to be pretty lenient and flexible) and whenever I have had problems they have sorted them out, e.g. stopping a cheque, stolen cards, someone else's signature appearing on their computer screen for my account (!) etc. When I first used my credit card in an online casino, they rung me on my mobile within a few minutes to make sure it was a legitimate transaction!

If I do have problems, I don't bother going to the branch, just get on the telephone banking. Less queuing, and they can solve your problems better,

My only gripe with HSBC are the branches, which either offer too few counter services, terrible new paying-in machines, badly designed layouts and and very little privacy.

Oh, and when you open a business account, they are suddenly much nicer to you than when you are 'just ' a personal customer.

Originally posted by Jamie
They 'understand' all too well ... that is they understand the business of making a profit ... they don't give a rat's ass about you or anyone else Pauly ... (and why should they care ... is there any profit in caring?) ... and the degree to which they'll be nice to you will be directly proportional to how much profit they can make from you.


That pretty much sums-up my opinion of banks.

I'm sure banks were invented by a highwayman who one day thought "Hey, why bother creeping around at night robbing people at gun-point when we can trick them into just giving us the money, while at the same thime thanking us for helping them ?"

so you don't use a bank then nick2?

I've used hsbc since i was 11 or 12 and apart from once using the telephone banking and having someone in India tell me that i was lying when I said i'd had a payrise i've never had a problem.

Re: the original post, why not arrange an overdraft rather than accidentally going overdrawn without any facility to allow it.

I do use a bank, but only because I have to, they won't pay me in cash, you need a bank account to get a mortgage, a switch card, a credit card etc. etc.

They are a neccessary evil.

HSBC charged me £30 for not having enought money in my current account to pay off my credit card by direct debit. This was my fault but I thought it was unfair and wrote them a letter asking for it to be refunded as a gesture of goodwill. A few days later a man rang from HSBC, asked me what I wanted and agreed to refund the money to me. They did this a few days later.
As such I have no problem with them.

To be fair they are a business and need to make money to survive..some people get upset by the way they operate but they tend to be the ones that always want something...more money, no charges, bigger overdrafts, but aren't prepared to face the possible consequences.
Would you rather keep your money at home?? Course you wouldn't so the banks job is to look after your money and employ staff to be at your beck and call when you have a problem...and you get this for free.
Everyone will have a sob story to tell about EVERY bank that's available on the high street.
I've actually found HSBC to be a great bank and helped me out many a time when I've needed it and there has always been someone to offer good advice...but then again I don't take the pi and when I do speak to someone in the branch I speak to them in a manner I would expect to be spoken to.

Originally posted by carsondaly
HSBC charged me £30 for not having enought money in my current account to pay off my credit card by direct debit. This was my fault but I thought it was unfair and wrote them a letter asking for it to be refunded as a gesture of goodwill. A few days later a man rang from HSBC, asked me what I wanted and agreed to refund the money to me. They did this a few days later.
As such I have no problem with them.

I'm sure the banks delibrately inflate these charges, and then 99% of the time will refund it to you if you ask. Makes you feel good about the bank (you have their goodwill, you probably won't do it again, you will tell people about it on forums like this) and they still make money off the non-Yorkshire folk who don't ring up to complain.

Originally posted by nick2
I do use a bank, but only because I have to, they won't pay me in cash, you need a bank account to get a mortgage, a switch card, a credit card etc. etc.

They are a neccessary evil.
A neccessary evil that you get for free.

I'm sure I read that there is no basis in law for charging late payment fees on credit card payments, so if you complain about it, they have to refund you. They are just chancing that you won't kick up a fuss.

Originally posted by wibbles
A neccessary evil that you get for free.

You don't really get it for free - everyone pays for the banks through the banks paying low rates of interest of any current account balances; I'm sure that there isn't a person on here that has never been charges some sort of fee by their bank; and through business banking which most certainly is NOT free - a few percent of EVERYTHING you buy is going to the banks in fees, which we all pay for in the end.

Originally posted by ncrossland
You don't really get it for free - everyone pays for the banks through the banks paying low rates of interest of any current account balances; I'm sure that there isn't a person on here that has never been charges some sort of fee by their bank; and through business banking which most certainly is NOT free - a few percent of EVERYTHING you buy is going to the banks in fees, which we all pay for in the end.
But low rates of interest are higher rates than if you keep your money at home. You don't actually pay anything. Like I said before they are a business that employ people and provide services..they have to make some money from somewhere.

Originally posted by wibbles
But low rates of interest are higher rates than if you keep your money at home. You don't actually pay anything. Like I said before they are a business that employ people and provide services..they have to make some money from somewhere.

But don't they make money by investing your money, or lending it to other people ?

so this 'necessary evil' lends you money to buy a house, gives you a line of credit to use for whatever you wish and maintains a national network to allow you to pay for things without carrying around lots of cash.

and you complain that they operate like any other business and exist to make a profit.

Originally posted by nick2
But don't they make money by investing your money, or lending it to other people ?
Course they do but YOU still don't pay for it...you get your service gratis.

Originally posted by Cyclone
so this 'necessary evil' lends you money to buy a house, gives you a line of credit to use for whatever you wish and maintains a national network to allow you to pay for things without carrying around lots of cash.

and you complain that they operate like any other business and exist to make a profit.

I don't have a problem with them making a profit, of billions of pounds a year, it's the £30 charges for sending a letter, and £35 if you're a day late with your Visa card bill that winds people up, they seem to be taking the p**s.

Originally posted by nick2
I don't have a problem with them making a profit, of billions of pounds a year, it's the £30 charges for sending a letter, and £35 if you're a day late with your Visa card bill that winds people up, they seem to be taking the p**s.
Those charges exist as a deterrent but people still overdraw. Lets not forget you are using money thats not yours and somewhere down the line it has to come from somewhere else.
As for other stuff I find banks actually don't charge you when you're only a day late..its when you drag it out for a week or don't have the decency to inform them before that something may not be right with your account.
If someone was to take money from YOU then you'd expect them to inform you BEFORE so why don't people show the same respect to a bank??

Originally posted by wibbles
Those charges exist as a deterrent but people still overdraw. Lets not forget you are using money thats not yours and somewhere down the line it has to come from somewhere else.
As for other stuff I find banks actually don't charge you when you're only a day late..its when you drag it out for a week or don't have the decency to inform them before that something may not be right with your account.
If someone was to take money from YOU then you'd expect them to inform you BEFORE so why don't people show the same respect to a bank??

You won't conmvince me they are my friends.

They are the hand-maidens of Satan I tell you !!!

Originally posted by nick2
You won't conmvince me they are my friends.

They are the hand-maidens of Satan I tell you !!!
That is true also. :P

Originally posted by Cyclone
I've used hsbc since i was 11 or 12 and apart from once using the telephone banking and having someone in India tell me that i was lying when I said i'd had a payrise i've never had a problem.


Then you're a very lucky man. Hope you never fall on hard times.

StarSparkle

In my experience, banks are all rather similar. They become "listening" banks [to paraphrase an old advert for the then Midland Bank] when you have a large amount of money to invest, and not until. They are staffed by some good, hardworking people, but like everywhere else, there are some careless, useless individuals dealing with the public. The counter jobs have been deskilled to the point where they are closer to "blue collar" rather than middle class occupations. The emphasis on sales too has transformed the landscape, with counter staff trying their desperate best to sell customers visa cards etc, regardless of the customer's debit balance, so that they can gain important sales points. I am not suggesting that banks have EVER operated with a "social conscience", but now the situation is worse than it was before.
Re HSBC'S strategy of Indian call centre banking ; even the staff admit that it is not working. Last week, at great inconvenience, I had to go into the branch to ask for something that the Indian telephone clerk could not do. This was a very, very simple , "everyday" procedure/transaction. Then again, the organisation are noted for fatuous ideas- recall their infamous Crocker Bank fiasco of the early eighties...

Originally posted by coopster1974
So they refunded you once already as a goodwill gesture? Would this not have prompted you to make sure it didnt happen again in case there were no more goodwill gestures?

I fail to see why the bank is at fault, you a had a lucky escape once before and expect them to do it again. I'm afraid, in my eyes, you only have yourself to blame.






ps I think they're great, they pay me 30k a year, mortgage subsidy, low loan rates etc etc

They pay you 30k a year eh? Well I'm not on 30k a year and it's sometimes difficult to stay in the black when I've got rent and other bills to pay, especially since I've recently changed careers and am retraining on a low wage of about 10k a year.

People like you don't take this into account when dishing out the 'only yourself to blame' statements while you're sitting smugly on your 30k a year and enjoying your low rates and mortgage subsidy etc. Why should I be surprised though. You're an HSBC employee so thanks for fitting the HSBC stereotype and thanks again for rubbing it in my face. Smug t**t! :mad:

30K a year is hardly a princely sum anyway. It is actually, only just above the average income in relation to Britain as a whole. As for the cheap mortgage and non-contributary pension you can keep them. I left Midland in 1991, to go into lecturing and have never looked back. There were some good people [like the mates of mine who still work for HSBC], but in the main the job attracts mediocre, intellectually-incurious, smug, petty-minded, slack-jawed little Pooters with their Daily Mail under their arm, briefcase for their sandwiches, coffee-funds, post-its, achingly-unfunny office in-jokes, "fun days" at the bank social club, whip-rounds for birthdays, ****ing gonks on their computers, inane breaktime chatter, i.e. "Carla, did you know that Thornton's now do a diabetic toffee?", and sneaky "reporting" of colleagues behind their backs. If the management announced that it was going to stage an SS -style massacre of the cleaning staff in the Bank car park, you can bet your life that most of the bleating, docile, sheep-like wretches would put their heads down and continue as per normal.

Didn't someone throw himself off the top of Griffin House rather than work for them ?

Nick,
You are correct re the suicide at Griffin House in the eighties. I know you mean no harm here, but I think we have to be mindful that his relatives might be reading this. I worked at Deacon House at the time, and I knew the receptionist who was "first on the scene", and I remember how distressed the man's colleagues were. No offence, Nick, but let's not pursue this one mate.

Originally posted by timo
30K a year is hardly a princely sum anyway. It is actually, only just above the average income in relation to Britain as a whole.

Timo I don't where you are now but it's clearly not in Sheffield 30K is pretty good by most standards - put it this way a combination of my husband's and my own salary only just comes to over that!

Obviously there are exceptions but don't take the "massaged national average" figures as meaning anything afterall statistics can easily be "adjusted".

I would've thought that the average wage in sheffield is somewhere between £15k and £25k.....just a rough guess. If I was earning £30k a year for doing what I do now I'd be more than happy, and it's possible that I may earn this in the future as I get more experience.

In general I think that £30k is quite a comfortable wage, depending on your financial responsibilties of course.

I believe that the average wage for Sheffield is £21k and the national average is about £24k. And no, I can't remember where I heard that.

I earn considerably less than either sum.

Oh, and getting back on topic, I've been with HSBC for 7 years and never had any issues with them. When I was struggling as a student in the late nineties and ran out of money they quite happily extended my overdraft almost immediatley, which got me out of a bit of a problem. Since graduating I've had a £1500 overdraft limit, ehich has stopped me from slipping into the "red".

Originally posted by Pauly
...am retraining on a low wage of about 10k a year.

People like you don't take this into account when dishing out the 'only yourself to blame' statements while you're sitting smugly on your 30k a year and enjoying your low rates and mortgage subsidy etc.

I work for a bank (not HSBC), and I'd like to point out a couple of things:

£10k was my starting salary in the bank about 3 years ago. It's not a lot of money, and I can understand how it's easy to go overdrawn. However, I managed to get by without going overdrawn beyond my overdraft limit. If I had gone over this limit, I would have been charged, the same as any other customer. When I applied for my overdraft, my application wasn't given any special treatment as a member of staff, and I am charged standard rates when I use it.

I don't think it's fair to expect to get charges refunded on more than one occasion - surely after you've been charged once (and had a refund), you understand how the charges work and therefore how to avoid them.

nick2 - I've told you before, no bank charges a fee for sending letters. They are charging you a fee because you failed to run your account correctly.

Ok Andy...

...but when Christmas is only around the corner and you've budgetted for a certain amount of money and that cash is then taken away by the bank for charges then you might hope for a bit of understanding from the bank. It's not like they're desperate to keep hold of your £60 when they've got millions of pounds going backwards and forwards every week.

I understand perfectly how to avoid charges but I'd hoped that the bank would help me out on this occasion. Clearly I was mistaken when I hoped that the bank might 'understand'.

Anyway, does it make sense to charge someone ridiculous amounts of money, making their situation even worse rather than helping them out and agreeing to talk to them about their problem in order to find a solution. When the bank charges me and then hides behind the desk when I want to discuss it like they did with me then I'm understandably hacked off! :(

Originally posted by Funky Dave
When I was struggling as a student in the late nineties and ran out of money they quite happily extended my overdraft almost immediatley, which got me out of a bit of a problem. Since graduating I've had a £1500 overdraft limit, ehich has stopped me from slipping into the "red".

Wait until they demand to reduce that limit Dave. :(

Originally posted by Pauly
I understand perfectly how to avoid charges but I'd hoped that the bank would help me out on this occasion. Clearly I was mistaken when I hoped that the bank might 'understand'.


You're a plumber, right?

Would you fix my central heating for free?

but they helped you out the first time. How many times would you like to get away with it?

And seriously, why don't you set up a small overdraft to avoid the situation in the future, even to use for your £60 of xmas presents if you choose.

Originally posted by Pauly
Ok Andy...

...but when Christmas is only around the corner and you've budgetted for a certain amount of money and that cash is then taken away by the bank for charges then you might hope for a bit of understanding from the bank. It's not like they're desperate to keep hold of your £60 when they've got millions of pounds going backwards and forwards every week.

I understand perfectly how to avoid charges but I'd hoped that the bank would help me out on this occasion. Clearly I was mistaken when I hoped that the bank might 'understand'.

Anyway, does it make sense to charge someone ridiculous amounts of money, making their situation even worse rather than helping them out and agreeing to talk to them about their problem in order to find a solution. When the bank charges me and then hides behind the desk when I want to discuss it like they did with me then I'm understandably hacked off! :(



Wait until they demand to reduce that limit Dave. :(

Surely these opinions are mostly about the staff at the branch where you have your account. I've banked with HSBC for years and have always found them OK. Staff at my present branch (22 years there) are wonderful and always very helpful - can't praise them enough. Through relatives I've also had to deal with a couple of other banks - Natwest are OK but my experience of LLoyds-TSB has been dreadful - really unprofessional - one of their staff actually advised an elderly relative of mine to give fraudulent information and filled in forms on her behalf but without her permission. We complained very strongly to their head office and received a letter of apology but I don't really feel the matter was dealt with properly. I wouldn't recommend them to my worst enemy.

I tend to think it comes down to a person to manage their own financial affairs and learn from mistakes.
Either you didn't learn or you have some seriously bad karma, must've done something really bad in a previous life.
Being let off once, fair enough, twice - that's like asking your Mum for your pocket money in advance cos you spent it all already.

Are you telling me you've never ever made the same mistake twice or had trouble with finances that really couldn't be helped? Just how perfect are you people? :mad:

If you two (Andy or Cyclone) were in my situation I'm fairly sure you wouldn't be taking the high ground that you appear to be enjoying right now. But then you've both got your money for Christmas haven't you so you feel that it's ok to say what you want. Another two smug g**s.

i missed the bit where i was smug.

If i was in that situation, (and i have been charged for things in the past, like forgetting to make a credit card payment on time) then i'd either do something to stop it happening again and pay or just accept it. I certainly won't bother complaining about the charges, they are a business, I really don't see what your point is.

And I was also trying to make a sensible suggestion to help you avoid the problem in the future by arranging a small overdraft.

I'm quite lucky in that I do earn a decent wage, my main money worries are when i'll have enough to decorate the next room and when I can afford to buy a sports car, but it doesn't mean i don't understand the problem.

Wendy,
You make a fair point re the "average" national wage figures [my info was from Social Trends]. You are correct to point out that figures can be "massaged", and there are many pitfalls with stats that I would readily acknowledge pertaining to validity etc. Perhaps the "average" [which itself is a nebulous concept] is lower in Sheffield. I'm an ex-pat living on the wrong side of the Pennines, by the way.

If your that bothered Pauly then take ALL your money out of the bank and rip up your cash cards. Then there's no way you can overdraw and use money that isn't yours to use. To do it once is forgivable, to do it twice is just daft. The charges exist as a deterrent. We all have to face the same consequences as you do. I know if I ever have to overdraw I manage my accounts properly and either budget for it or have the decency to inform the bank at the earliest opportunity (before the overdraft) what may happen. They have to deal with a hell of a lot of other people like yourself who overdraw on a regular basis..like I said..its not your money to use.
If the bank decided to remove money from your account but didn't tell you, you'd be fuming but you don't give the bank the same respect.

Wibbles,
I agree that it is down to individual responsibility re managing accounts properly. However, as I have said previously, bank staff so readily offer or point customers in the direction of further products that will in all likelihood increase debt because of the pressure to achieve sales targets of credit cards etc. This is often done [particularly to students] when the customer already has a dangerously unhealthy debit balance in the first place. Perhaps, ultimately the blame for financial mismanagement must lie with the individual [to suggest otherwise is to deny human free will and agency]. However, this tactic, so prevalent in banking, of putting temptation in the way of the already vulnerable does not help matters.

A couple of months ago when I closed my Barclaycard account they asked why I was closing it, I told them I had found a card with a much lower rate of interest, they offered to match that rate if I kept my account open. I did point out that if they had been charging the lower rate I wouldn't have gone looking for another card in the first place. I have noticed that banks do this with loans too, they try to see how much they can charge you and only offer you a better deal if they think you are going to go to another lender. It seems a bit underhanded to not tell people that they can have a better deal and only mention it when you think they are going to leave.

So, if you want a lower rate on your Barclaycard just phone up to close the account and see what they offer you.

Originally posted by timo
However, this tactic, so prevalent in banking, of putting temptation in the way of the already vulnerable does not help matters.

That is a fair point. I believe there are steps in place to prevent this sort of tactic. Larger print on applications, warning type statements to let people know that minimum payments will not greatly affect the balance etc etc.
It certainly needs regulation better. Although a credit check is important in processing these applications I find that personal finances aren't taken into account. You should be made to disclose all your outgoings and be set a limit based on the maximum you could pay back a month based on the card balance. Its all very well passing a credit check but if you then max out your card and the monthly payments are too much then your up s**t creek without a paddle.

Just wondered what you think of them, am soon to depart after 9 years of totally inept and unhelpful service, just spent another unproductive day on the phone to them in Bangalore/holding in a queue/talking to "Customer Service Advisors" whose English was not enough to comprehend what I was talking about.

Is it me??? :help:

Probably not. The financial services industry is noted for its undesirable practices not helped by the outsourcing of their customer accounts department to offshore and far cheaper labour markets.

Although I also dont rate the Co-op or its so-called Ethical/Green Policy, they do have a local bank manager; you can walk in to see and speak with someone - an all too rare phenomena in this day and age of corporate globalisation.

I’m with HSBC and have had much the same experience from the Bangalore (or where ever) staff.

If I have to call the bank, I only call first thing in the morning and if I get through to some other country where they obviously cant speak very good English, I just ask for them to check my balance!

One thing I have noticed about the overseas call centres is that they wont do anything for you. They seem to have a set response to everything and will not go past that. On the other hand the UK staff are very helpful.

Try Nat West, they only have UK call centres and they are open 24 hours.

I bank with the HSBC and have noticed the same problem with the foreign call centre recently. Everything has to be repeated twice - I can't understand them and they can't understand me.

I never call now, but go round to the local branch if I have something to sort out.

Alastair

Originally posted by serapis

One thing I have noticed about the overseas call centres is that they wont do anything for you. They seem to have a set response to everything and will not go past that. On the other hand the UK staff are very helpful.



this is so true!!! most of frustration today came with the overseas staff being so obviously scripted that it was impossible to get any sense out of them/for them to appreciate exactly what I was saying...

Thanks for the Natwest tip, considering a move to them or Barclays...

Mod: Threads merged.

Originally posted by serapis
I’m with HSBC and have had much the same experience from the Bangalore (or where ever) staff.

If I have to call the bank, I only call first thing in the morning and if I get through to some other country where they obviously cant speak very good English, I just ask for them to check my balance!

One thing I have noticed about the overseas call centres is that they wont do anything for you. They seem to have a set response to everything and will not go past that. On the other hand the UK staff are very helpful.

Try Nat West, they only have UK call centres and they are open 24 hours.

Natwest are terrible, IMO.

For my opinions on varying financial institutions please read up on a previous page.

Alex - :)

I switched to the HSBC after I experianced Yorkshire Bank bank chargers. Ive never had any problems with HSBC and have always found the staff at Morrisons ecclesfield branch very helpful. Ive now gone with First Direct after a friend told me about their Free Text statements and great customer service.

Very happy and no complaints. Its alwasy a pleasure to phone & chat with their customer service just like their advert says.

Originally posted by chocotiger
I switched to the HSBC after I experianced Yorkshire Bank bank chargers. Ive never had any problems with HSBC and have always found the staff at Morrisons ecclesfield branch very helpful. Ive now gone with First Direct after a friend told me about their Free Text statements and great customer service.

Very happy and no complaints. Its alwasy a pleasure to phone & chat with their customer service just like their advert says.


AAARRRRGGGHHHHH Dont talk to me about FDSMS. The bane of my life!

I bank with the Halifax..seeing this advert i don't want to join HSBC now HSBC (http://www.nothingtodo.co.uk/view.php?id=1148)

Been with HSBC (nee Midland) since I was 17.
22 years.
Never had a problem.

Nat West once managed to make the Missus rooer over charges that were their mistake.

She's with Barclays as a result.

Ive been with HSBC since I was tiny and my mum opened me a little account which must be over 20yrs ago (obv when it was midland).. so excited when I was upgraded to a 'live cash' account! I have never had any problems with them, I mean I have had bank charges (but it was my own fault not the fault of HSBC) and I'm up to the limit on my student overdraft but hey, they have looked after me overall so I'm happy.

After working for YB and Abbey, I would not bank with either.. YB charges are just disgusting!!

I'm not saying that anyone on this forum needs this kind of help, but I really think a few lessons in school about how to deal with financial services, products and transactions would benefit a lot of people.. making sure everyone left school with a bank account would solve a lot of problems IMO.

Originally posted by Pauly
When I was a student I had a bit of a problem once where I had no money for food and the bank refused to talk to me about it or help. They just said, sorry there's nothing we can do.

I was in the excatly the same situation in the first term last year. And got excatly the same reply.

Soon as my overdraft is paid off im moving banks, after reading this thread loyds tsb is looking like a good option.

Originally posted by leddi
I'm not saying that anyone on this forum needs this kind of help, but I really think a few lessons in school about how to deal with financial services, products and transactions would benefit a lot of people.. making sure everyone left school with a bank account would solve a lot of problems IMO.

I completely agree - any teachers care to comment on this?

I have been with Halifax since I was born when my Grandparents opened me a bank account.... I stayed with them for 18 years, with a savings account, then a card cash account when I turned 16. Upon turning 18, I wanted to get a "proper" account, such as a Visa DEBIT card. Yet despite never once being overdrawn and having a regular income from my part time job, my bank that has known me 18 years refused point blank to offer me a proper bank account.

I am absolutely enraged!!! :rant: It's not like its a credit card, just a debit card that I can use in more shops, because the lousy visa electron they've given me is not accepted in some of the places I shop. :rant:

And they think they're having my student loan money... Yeah right. I've got savings accounts with HSBC which are FAR better in my opinion. Halifax have like 2 people on the counter at the Crystal Peaks branch which is ridiculous when you see the length of the queue. I pop into HSBC and its all over in a matter of minutes. Halifax makes me feel like I'm ageing as the queue goes down! So yeah, you can imagine where I'll be banking come September, when the banks have their nets out waiting for the students to arrive.... Hmmfh!

I've been with First Direct for nearly 12 years now and never ever had an issue. The staff at their call centres are friendly and you can use HSBC branches for any pay-ins/other transactions with no problems. I had a situation not long back with a standing order that was paid twice in the same month (I had altered the date over the internet but inputted the wrong month). Because of their free SMS txt statements I discovered the problem on the day it paid, rang them and it was all sorted with no hassle. The internet banking part is simple to use and you can do just about anything on there.

I am sure in most cases if you forsee a problem with going overdrawn etc., if you speak to them first they will probably come to some suitable solution. It is harder for them to react after the event because you are asking them to clear up your poo.

Moan moan moan, whinge whinge whinge...

"They charge too much."

"They won't lend me more money to let me get myself into more sh**."

Blah blah blah.

Yes, banks make obscene amounts of money primarily by charging people who mis-manage their finances.

Are the charges obscenely high? Probably. But, (barring an admin error on behalf of the bank) it's your fault at the end of the day.

Most banks are transparent with their charges these days. Most banks will allow a little leniency with a temporary OD blip (and most provide free £50 - £100 OD buffers anyway - if you go beyond this IMO you deserve to be charged).

Too many people don't take responsibility for their finances, then cry foul when they incur charges or aren't given the answer/solution they want/expect/demand.

As far as I'm concerned financial institutions give too much leniency when lending money out as it is.

I bank for free cos I manage my finances and live within my means.

If your job/benefits/student loan isn't providing the income you need to live your day to day life then that's a tough situation, but it ain't the bank's fault.

PS - re overseas call centres... if it's proving to be a problem speaking to Indian/Far East call centre staff then request that your bank flag your account so that you always get routed to a British call centre.