I've been getting into the film noir genre recently, although I've only seen a few of the originals (The Killers, Double Indemnity,Gilda). I also love neo noir films such as Chinatown and Where the Truth Lies.

Anyone else a fan? Care to recommend me a few more to try out?

I've been getting into the film noir genre recently, although I've only seen a few of the originals (The Killers, Double Indemnity,Gilda). I also love neo noir films such as Chinatown and Where the Truth Lies.

Anyone else a fan? Care to recommend me a few more to try out?

I'm not a huge fan, but I know just enough to be dangerous.

Some of these are borderline noir. It can be a pretty loose term. Purists will say that ony B/W US films from about 45-52 are eligable, but I'm not a purist.

Here goes:

Night and The City
Detour
The Reckless Moment
Out of The Past*
Gun Crazy*
Murder, My Sweet*
The Set-up*
The Asphalt Jungle*
Touch Of Evil
Sweet Smell of Success
Sunset Boulevard
Theives Highway
Brute Force
Nightmare Alley
Kiss Of Death
Port Of Shadows
Crossfire
Criss Cross
Force Of Evil
The Stranger
Kiss Me Deadly
In a Lonely Place

Neo Noir (ie colour)

Cutters Way
The Long Goodbye
Brick
Point Blank
Le Samourai


*You can get these cheap in a boxset from the US.

double indemnity..wonderful

Excellent, that's loads to be getting on with. I've heard Asphalt Jungle mentioned a few times, and Brick.

I forgot to ask whether Hitchcock is considered a film noir director. Notorious and Spellbound seem to be within the genre, and I've heard that The Man Who Knew Too Much and 39 Steps are similar?

Neo noir... I'd also add Bladerunner, Se7en, The Grifters and The Usual Suspects...

Good call John Locke. Can't believe I missed out Bladerunner!

I forgot to ask whether Hitchcock is considered a film noir director. Notorious and Spellbound seem to be within the genre...

Noir is a pretty loose term (its a French invention of the late 50's designed to pigeon-hole films so what do you expect?), but generally the protagonists have to have an undesirable past, ethics or motivation. The films are also are supposed to be low budget and shot in grimy locales with lighting heavily influenced by German expressionism. As far as I can tell the second part of this isn't enforced much at all though.

Hitchcock's protagonists tend to be 'moral'. Because of this he isn't really a noir director. The closest he comes to noir would be 'Strangers on a Train' and 'Shadow of a Doubt'. Both utterly brilliant films that are well worth seeing if you haven't already.

...and I've heard that The Man Who Knew Too Much and 39 Steps are similar?

Both are wrong men pictures and have final showdowns in music halls, but that is as far as the comparisons go.

He made MWKTM twice. I've seen the second one (with James Stewart and Doris Day) and found it pretty weak. Hitchcock reckoned this one was better than the original, so I've never bothered with the original.

39 Steps bears more relation to Saboteur and North By North by North West.

Cheers for that, it's all really interesting. People don't ever seem to watch old films any more. I suppose it's because there are so many new films around. It's good to see where things came from though IMO.

Hitchcock's protagonists may generally be moral but usually have some sort of guilty secret, even if it their secret isn't connected with why they are being punished/chased etc.

But Hitchcock isn't generally classed as noir. There are some good books on the subject, including a little "essential" series volume.

The original "Man Who Knew Too Much" is fine by me, a bit creaky (as is the Secret Agent for example). Hitchcock's first talkie "Blackmail" is very noirish.

Have remembered the name of specific book I was going to recommend - "Dark City - the Lost World of Film Noir".

Neo noir: oh, forgot one of my favs - Lost Highyway - (or anything by David Lynch for that matter).

Oh yes, I love Lynch. I wouldn't have thought it was Neo Noir, but I can see the likeness.

I shall have a look for that book Code 13.

Neo-noir - The Last Seduction. Can't remember director sorry.

I love film noir, brought up on it. There is a fantastic section on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_noir

And I can't wait for the film of Elliot Chaze's "Black wings has my Angel" a book I read years ago, but lost my copy - don't suppose any one has a copy?

My fav films are:

Farewell my Lovely (Dick Powell version)
Maltese Falcon - and virtually any bogart film
Postman always rings twice (both versions are brill)
Body Heat

Neo-noir - The Last Seduction. Can't remember director sorry.
post neo noir - all the **** they turn out in the future and life itself:suspect:

post neo noir - all the **** they turn out in the future and life itself:suspect:

Love film noir

Look out for films with Humphrey Bogart, George Raft, Edward G. Robinson and Barton Mclane. Some good ones already mentioned, including In a Lonely Place, The Maltese Falcon, The Big Sleep (an absolute classic).

No-one's mentioned The Killing by Stanley Kubrick. Excellent film, and if you've seen Reservoir Dogs, you'll see how cheeky Tarantino was.

Noir is a pretty loose term (its a French invention of the late 50's designed to pigeon-hole films so what do you expect?), but generally the protagonists have to have an undesirable past, ethics or motivation.

Although it is often used as a title for many films, film noir is actually a very specific title that was created by French critics around 1945, that is used to describe only a handful of films that were made in the 1940's, but didn't reach France until the late 40's and early 50's and were all released in quick succession.

Farewell My Lovely - classic (also remember some Peter Cheyney books my grandmother had which she passed to my mother, noticed them on ebay and bought two and am wondering if they are of the same genre)

I'm a fan of Cat People (1942), personally.

My all time fave noir is Big Sleep - though pretty much any Bogie movie is at least noir-ish! If you want a laugh with your noir though then try Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid!

My all time fave noir is Big Sleep - though pretty much any Bogie movie is at least noir-ish! If you want a laugh with your noir though then try Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid!

I watched that again recently. This time it almost made sense, but don't ask me to explain it now, that was weeks ago.

Key Largo is another good Bogart film.

For some great pre-noir films, in a similar style, two of my all time favourite films are They Drive by Night (1938 ) and M (1931). Neither are American, but are of a similar style to film noir.

Thank youuuuu. I never knew there were so many closet old film fans. It's great!

Although it is often used as a title for many films, film noir is actually a very specific title that was created by French critics around 1945, that is used to describe only a handful of films that were made in the 1940's, but didn't reach France until the late 40's and early 50's and were all released in quick succession.

From the Wiki article:

The term film noir (French for "black film"), first applied to Hollywood movies by French critic Nino Frank in 1946,
So yes, I was way off in thinking it was created in the late 50's. I always atrributed it the Cahiers bunch. In my defence I do tend to be more of a film viewer rather than film historian:|,

"I'm a fan of Cat People (1942), personally."

I am a huge fan of producer Val Newton's films (Cat People, Curse of the Cat People, the Leopard Man etc) but they are normally pigeon-holed as Horror rather than noir. "The Seventh Victim" is probably his most noirish.

Actually watched an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents TV series this morning ("The Derelicts") which was pure noir. Man commits murder on account of no-good gold-digging dame of a wife, ends up being blackmailed for it, thinks he gets away with it, but crime does not pay in the end.

Btw, it is detable how much film noir lighting was influenced by German Expressionism, or by the simple fact that most of the films were fairly low budget and less lighting meant less expense.

Related genres to film noir would be "hard boiled" detective fiction and radio noir, ie there were radio versions of many of the film noir movies but also radio series featuring the likes of Philip Marlowe and Sam Spade. The wonderful "Nightbeat" starring Frank Lovejoy is very noir (but the images are in your head).

"I'm a fan of Cat People (1942), personally."

I am a huge fan of producer Val Newton's films (Cat People, Curse of the Cat People, the Leopard Man etc) but they are normally pigeon-holed as Horror rather than noir. "The Seventh Victim" is probably his most noirish.

I agree that Cat People is usually pigeon-holed as Horror, but I studied the film as part of a module on film noir at film school, so I usually think of it as noir. Most film historians consider it noir, although it really a horror in the noir style... as noir isn't really a genre, as such. I very good film, no matter how you classify it, I suppose. :)

I am not a big fan of neo-noir, but an overlooked gem in my opinion is "Still of the Night" with Meryl Streep and Roy Schneider.