How Much drinking do you have to do before you consider yourself to be an alcoholic?

It's a subject that plays on my mind sometimes. I know people who are much worse than myself. And I'd like to know about other people's opinions about the subject.

In years past i knew a few people who could drink like the proverbial goldfish but I'd never of called them alcaholics. It's probably not the quantity you drink or when or how often you drink, I would of thought you'd claim to be an alcoholic when you couldn't go without a drink and you are basically addicted to the stuff.

I would consider myself to be an alcoholic. I drink cans of lager virtually every night.
Although i do not drink many cans, i know i should not be drinking at all.
On a weekend i will drink a lot more but this is because i stay up later.
I do not have a clue as to the damage i am doing to myself (if any, as i said i do not drink many cans) but the last time i went to the doctors, she couldn't find anything wrong with me.

It seems strange that this subject has come up on the forum as i have been planning on stopping drinking alltogether (after xmas and the new year of course;)).

I wouldn't consider that you could lable someone as an alcoholic just because they do any of those things, some people could drink sensibly every night of the week, one or two pints. Some people may choose to have a glass of wine alone with a meal... doesn't mean they have a problem.

I have had drinking problems before, mainly because of the lifestyle I have and the job I do. I think we have made it easy as a society for people to develop a problem as i did, but I wouldn't have said I fitted into any of those things all the time. It is different things to different people. Try giving up for a month... if you can't, maybe you have a problem.

A 'dry' alcoholic is still an alcoholic.

You can drink every day & have a drink problem or drink less frequently & be an alcoholic.

If you find alcohol is affecting your work & your home life then maybe it's time to start scrutinising yourself. Although chances are if you are an alcoholic you'll need someone else to point out that you have a problem. You won't want to see it for yourself.

Unless of course you're at that stage of telling everyone you know you have a problem, whilst consistantly refusing to do anything about it. It'll take a while for people to realise this though, they'll be busy giving you the space you need & being supportive, leaving plenty of space for you to continue with the manipulation & lies.

If you're at the point where you're raiding the kids' money boxes for cash to buy booze - then I think you can safely say you're an alcoholic :|

if drinking every night or drinking alone are signs, then most of europe are borderline alcoholics. They drink wine with dinner, most everynight, alone or together, and sometimes even with lunch.

I'd consider an alcoholic as someone who drinks enough booze for it to be a problem for them. I.e. drinking and doing things they regret later, blowing relationships, missing work, etc.

If this sort of stuff happens regularly then i'd class that as alcoholism.

MY idea of an alcholic is one who never has alcohol out of their system, goes on a binge, tops up in the night and continues first thing in the morning. Goes through all the stages loud mouthed bragging, inappropriate sexual behaviour, sometimes violence, and after the binge, suicidal thoughts, depression, remorse, abject misery, the shakes. And yet never goes more tha 3/4 days before starting again.
So alcohol is aways present in the body.
Hazel

Thankyou all for some very well observed and thoughtful comments. :thumbsup:

I have 2 glasses of red wine 4 - 6 nights a week. I never feel drunk, just content and relaxed.

I don't think i am an alcoholic, but a nights not the same without it. :)

Any time alchohol impacts on any area of your personal life, like being too hungover to keep an appointment, underperforming at work because of a lunchtime drink, or a hangover from the night before, forgetting what you were doing the night before, acting in a way that you never would if you were sober because of alchohol and regret it the next day; or affecting your realtionships or not feeling like doing other stuff you enjoy doing because you are drinking or hungover...

Unforetunately having a hangover is something we wear as a culture with pride, and getting legless is the sole aim of the evening for a lot of people

all signs of a problematic relationship with alchohol I would say.

Everyone overindulges once in a while - I expect most people have suffered at work with a hangover, or rung in sick at some point in the past.

When does it become alcoholism? Once/twice a year? Once/twice a month? Once/twice a week? (every day? *cough*).

There must be some legal/medical definition of alcoholism - anyone know what it might be?




Or perhaps an alcoholic is just "anyone who buys white lightning" ?:gag:

Originally posted by theflyingfish
Any time alchohol impacts on any area of your personal life, like being too hungover to keep an appointment, underperforming at work because of a lunchtime drink, or a hangover from the night before, forgetting what you were doing the night before, acting in a way that you never would if you were sober because of alchohol and regret it the next day; or affecting your realtionships or not feeling like doing other stuff you enjoy doing because you are drinking or hungover...

Unforetunately having a hangover is something we wear as a culture with pride, and getting legless is the sole aim of the evening for a lot of people

all signs of a problematic relationship with alchohol I would say.

someone who only drinks once a year could have all of those symptoms after their one night drinking. I don't think anyone would seriously think that they were an alcoholic because once a year they have a hangover.

Originally posted by Edd
Everyone overindulges once in a while - I expect most people have suffered at work with a hangover, or rung in sick at some point in the past.

When does it become alcoholism? Once/twice a year? Once/twice a month? Once/twice a week? (every day? *cough*).

There must be some legal/medical definition of alcoholism - anyone know what it might be?




Or perhaps an alcoholic is just "anyone who buys white lightning" ?:gag:

No there isn't a medical definition. Any doctor will say "only you can say if you are an alchoholic". Which isn't alot of help really.

If someone rendered themselves incapacitated with a drug other than alchohol, how frequently would that have to occur before it became a problem?

And everyone has rung in sick at some point - yep - we have a very problematic relationship with alchohol in general in this country...

On my way to work in the mornings, about 8am, I regularly come cross one of the local alcaholics, he has a bottle of cheap vodka. Freshy purchaced(?) at the local Jacksons.

He shouts at people in that offensive and pointless kind of way.

Originally posted by theflyingfish
And everyone has rung in sick at some point - yep - we have a very problematic relationship with alchohol in general in this country...

Id tend to agree with that. But at the same time, I expect most people have rung in sick through having overdone it at the gym, or doing diy (i certainly have - once this year, but no hangovers). Obviously thats different (isnt it?), but its still self-inflicted, preventable, unhealthy, and probably dangerous if it is a regular occurance. Maybe its just thousands of times less common.

Personally, if i had to draw a line in the sand, I would say that if i was bunking work once a month, then I would be an alcoholic. Until then, im just lively!

I think the real problem is we cant be trusted to take proper care of ourselves :P

Originally posted by Lickable
I have 2 glasses of red wine 4 - 6 nights a week. I never feel drunk, just content and relaxed.

I don't think i am an alcoholic, but a nights not the same without it. :)

Same here, we usually have one bottle of red a night between us. It's not the end of the world if we don't have a bottle but you do feel something is missing. I think thats more of a habit than an addiction though.

Originally posted by nick2
Same here, we usually have one bottle of red a night between us. It's not the end of the world if we don't have a bottle but you do feel something is missing. I think thats more of a habit than an addiction though.

I think just having a slight feeling that something is missing doesn't make you an alcoholic.

But once that starts to manifest itself in physical symptoms - like getting stressed with people for no reason, or getting the shakes when you have gone without - is probably when you have a problem.

Playing devil's advocate slightly...but I'm not so sure. Non drinkers feel content and relaxed without drinking half a bottle of wine first. And spending every evening in a state of semi intoxication? I am assuming you work during the day, so nearly all your 'own' time there is alchohol in your system...

I reckon an alcoholic is someone who is "dependant" upon alcohol. i.e

Cannot go to parties without having a drink
" go a month without having a drink
" have sex without having a drink

there's no clear medical definition, but there is a scale that is generally used to assess whether someone has a dependancy problem.

I can't remember it all and can't be bothered to look it up, and someone mentioned most off the questions on it already in this thread.

this might help us all be clear on what we are talking about;

Alcoholism or alcohol dependency is a disease, just as high blood pressure or arthritis are diseases. Alcoholism is a chronic disease that means that it lasts for a long time or it can recur. A person suffering from alcohol dependency may have the following characteristics:
Craving - a strong need for an alcoholic drink
Loss of control - one drink leads to another and another
Tolerance - more alcohol is needed to get the "good feelings"
Dependency - symptoms such as nausea, sweating and anxiety. These symptoms are usually relieved by drinking alcohol
Alcohol abuse differs from alcoholism. With alcohol abuse the strong craving for a drink is missing and there is no loss of control on drinking or physical dependence on alcohol. One definition of alcohol abuse is a pattern of drinking that is accompanied by one or more of the following situations within a 12 month period:
Failure to meet responsibilities at home, work or school.
Drinking in dangerous situations, such as driving or operating machinery
Alcohol related legal problems such as drink driving or drunk and disorderly convictions
Relationship problems that are caused or worsened by alcohol.

from (http://www.alpharma.co.uk/what_is/window_what_is_alcoholism.htm)

also

There is a commonly used framework, the CAGE framework, which can be used to tell if you or someone close to you may have a drinking problem. The following four questions should be answered:
Have you ever felt you should Cut down on your drinking?
Have you felt Annoyed when people have criticised your drinking?
Have you ever felt Guilty about your drinking habits?
Have you ever felt the need for an Eyeopener (a drink first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or get rid of a hangover)?
If you answered yes to any of these questions you may have an alcohol-related drinking problem. If you answered yes to more than one it is very likely that you have a problem. In both cases you should see your doctor to discuss your responses to these questions, so that he or she can determine if you have a drinking problem and recommend the best course of action for you.

although i'm not sure i agree with point A. Afterall, i've thought that i should cut down on fatty foods, that doesn't mean i was addicted to them. Growing up and/or becoming more health aware are both likely to make you think about A (and most people swear that they'll cut down whenever they have a bad hangover).

Originally posted by theflyingfish
Playing devil's advocate slightly...but I'm not so sure. Non drinkers feel content and relaxed without drinking half a bottle of wine first. And spending every evening in a state of semi intoxication? I am assuming you work during the day, so nearly all your 'own' time there is alchohol in your system...


I can feel relaxed and content without the wine I just prefer to feel relaxed and content with the wine.

I drink a few pints of lager every day. I can go without, but I don't like to, and I don't sleep well if I do go without.

I don't know if I'm an alcoholic, I probably technically am, but I know there's others who are a lot worse than I am. Although that doesn't justify it and doesn't mean I should do nothing about it.

I don't know if I'm an alcoholic

Assuming you live with family then they would have a shrewd idea. Living with an alcoholic isn't anything like living with someone who likes a couple of drinks every night.

As a student I came across plenty of other students who drank far more than was healthy for them on a pretty regular basis. It didn't make them alcoholics.



If you're lying to others about how much & how often you drink.

If you're in debt due to the amount you drink, or you steal so you can carry on drinking (you'll be justifying it as borrowing of course - you'll fully intend to pay the money back you just won't get around to asking first)

If you are finding that drinking is the only way you can cope with day to day life.

Then you're an alcoholic.

I'm probably not then, but I do think I should drink less than I do. Does that mean I have a problem?

Does that mean I have a problem?

Well I have no idea how much you drink in comparison to recommended levels of alcohol consumption but if your skin has started to look like leather & the whites of your eyes have become the yellows of your eyes then maybe it's time to worry ;)

Originally posted by Siân
Assuming you live with family then they would have a shrewd idea. Living with an alcoholic isn't anything like living with someone who likes a couple of drinks every night.

As a student I came across plenty of other students who drank far more than was healthy for them on a pretty regular basis. It didn't make them alcoholics.



If you're lying to others about how much & how often you drink.

If you're in debt due to the amount you drink, or you steal so you can carry on drinking (you'll be justifying it as borrowing of course - you'll fully intend to pay the money back you just won't get around to asking first)

If you are finding that drinking is the only way you can cope with day to day life.

Then you're an alcoholic.

I think these things are true, but rather an extreme view of it. I am sure there are alcoholics that don't lie about what they drink (It is easy in todays sociecty to say you go out and have six pints a night, and nobody would think anything about it), and who don't steal money in order to drink. Also, I think that some would say that they can cope with day to day life without a drink, but drinking makes it much easier.

Probably far too many people with drinking problems just shrug it off and think that everyone is doing it, that it is just part of our culture.

Originally posted by Sidla
I'm probably not then, but I do think I should drink less than I do. Does that mean I have a problem?

Obviously its difficult for us to tell...but I'm gonna guess that you really (if you really think about) know the answer to your question. If you're worried about it (and it sounds like you are) then you may have a problem (or potentially have).

People don't just one day become an alchoholic - it could be more about the extent of your drinking, how it affects your life over time and whether you are worrried about it (or if your friends/family are). I'd agree with Snook that the example given by Sian (whilst not wrong) is extreme.

I'd avoid (in some instances) using the label alchoholic. You could spend all your time trying to work out if you fall into that label - rather than maybe going a couple of nights without drink. Over time, I reckon you may feel better..You could always give it a try?

Just my tuppence worth!

Probably far too many people with drinking problems just shrug it off and think that everyone is doing it, that it is just part of our culture.

That's the point though - having a problem with drink isn't the same as being an alcoholic.

I am sure there are alcoholics that don't lie about what they drink (It is easy in todays sociecty to say you go out and have six pints a night, and nobody would think anything about it),

If you live with others they tend to start challenging you because your behaviour really does affect their lives. An alcoholic isn't going to stick to drinking socially - when things get stressful the urge to drink is overwhelming. Hiding drink around the house counts as lying in my book.



Also, I think that some would say that they can cope with day to day life without a drink, but drinking makes it much easier.

I'd agree but an alcoholic doesn't fall into this catagory. Drinking doesn't make life easier for an alcoholic. They can't cope with what life throws at them without it (or that's how it seems to them)

I'd agree with Snook that the example given by Sian (whilst not wrong) is extreme

Go along to any Al Anon meeting - you'll find it's not at all extreme, sadly. It's "normal" behaviour for alcoholic. They're just extremely good at hiding it

Somebody mentioned that a Doctor's definition was "only you can say if you're an alcoholic" and commented that this wasn't much help... I would disagree (surprise, surprise!).

I have been to the point where you need a drink / few drinks to feel 'normal'. That's the point when you're an alcoholic IMO. And I was aware of it, but it took several months to stop.

This might be a useful set of questions to consider if anyone is seriously worried about whether or not they are in need of help :

AA (http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org.uk/ep3doc1.html)

Im not worried, I don't drink that much to consider myself an alcoholic..

Im not worried at all :suspect:

Well i guess i'm not an alcoholic but i still intend on cutting down on the 'tinnies'.

Thanks for the link Siân :thumbsup:

i scored 1. need to work harder to improve alcoholism.

I have a friend shes been a friend for over 15 years, we met when we were teenagers got on really well and were allways together.
My friend had very liberel parents and at the age of 14 she would regually have a little tipple at her dads whiskey (only when they were out) infact I think the first time I got really hammerd was with her. She was very popular and bubbly never short of a boyfriend. AS she got older she met a lovley handsome chap and they had the dream wedding, but she was very fond of a tipple still and seemed to be getting drunk a lot. I have watched my lovley bubbly friend turn into a vile unhappy monster over the last few years, shes lost her handsome hubby nearly lost her job and on occasion i have caught her drink driving. Drink has cost her dearly, its soul destroying to see the effects drink can have on certain people. Its o.k for the more stong headed but can have devestating consequences on the people who are more vunerable to addiction. sorry you may be able to tell I feel a little sad today :cry: its been one of those weeks I'll stop ranting now...

I would say a alchoholic is a person who cant go without alcohol for more than a few hours, the need to top up is neccessary even in small amounts, ie. a half of beer would be enough to top up, but every couple of hours, depending on availability, I had a couple of mates who were alchoholic, one is no longer with us he died age 51 liver failiure not pleasant, the other is still struggling with it.

I know a couple of people who have Alcoholic tendancies. One is a Bloke who is in the pub all day at weekends. He has lost lots of jobs through not turning up. He has written at great length about his alcoholism. His personal hygene is alarming at times. He's often very difficult to pin down as he can't be trusted to keep an appointment. However he's a great friend and a talented man, and If I don't see him every week (he can get a little tedius) I get a lot of pleasure from his company. He's now got a great job and he's looking healthier than I've ever seen him. He is and will always be an alcoholic, and I hear that people like him who have suffered from head injuries in the past are often likely to become alcoholics.

Having this friend to measure myself against. I am still a little confused, as I often find myself binge drinking at nights in pubs(5-6pints in 2.5 hours with friends). I usually have 2 or 3 days a week of no alcohol. I never miss work, rarely have a hangover at work, but often find myself wasting a saturday or sunday in bed with a crushing hangover. Just exactly as I did 18 years ago when I was young and living with my parents.

So I set up this thread and poll to try and get some insight into myself. Still not sure if I'm above average or damaging my health?

:help:

People say i am lucky because i have NEVER had a hangover of any type.
I say i'm unlucky. If drinking made me sick then i would not want to drink in the first place!.

Hi Vidster,
I am often(poss ev 2-3 months) sick in the morning after a heavy night, and it doesn't make a bit of difference. I know that real alcoholics often have terrible bad teeth because of his.

My younger brother used to say this too. But we went to Magaluf, and after keeping up with me he had a different tale to tell. He was used to drinking much smaller quantities of strong lager. But I am used to drinking large quantities of normal strength.

Originally posted by muddycoffee
So I set up this thread and poll to try and get some insight into myself. Still not sure if I'm above average or damaging my health?

You've brought up an interesting point there, muddycoffee.

Another danger of drinking too much alcohol is the harmful effects on the human body. Although regular drinkers may not be turning into alcoholics, they may not be doing their health any favours either.

Reading through this thread, it seems a number of you drink in order to relax or wind down, and although you don't think of yourselves as alcoholics (in the limited way I see alcoholics; a person who is intoxicated all day, every day), some of you appear to becoming dependant on it.

Hi Abdul.
That's a good point. About physical deterioration, but In my experience people I have known getting themselves into a state, have also been heavy smokers. And smoking being much more damaging, leaves me with a much less clear example as to what can happen. Sure there are celebrities like Larry Hagman and George Best Who have had Liver transplants. But most alcoholics I've known about have died and become disabled from smoking.

I have recently sacrificed my usual drinking friday night out, and instead I play in a band rehersal instead now. And I've found that saturdays are now tremendous. As I don't feel tired for an hour as I come around.

Tonight I have got in quite late, and ok had a couple of bottles of beer, while I engaged with the forum, but I don't feel drunk at all. As If i'd been out on a traditional friday It would have been 2.5 times as much. I think If I got some other distractions for my mates and I, I'd be less interest in alcohol.

My definition of alcoholism is someone who is dependant on drink.

I admit to drinking alone, but not in any large quantity (perhaps a 330ml bottle of belgian beer, or half a 660ml bottle of german weiss beer) and thats usually while im watching a film or listening to music.

As im a student, i know a few people who have left home and turned to alcohol because they've no nagging parent figure to tell them not to.

I dont agree with binge drinking either, I for one havent had a hangover from a "night out" and ive certainly never been sick from alcohol.

Well it's now 00:50 and i have had 5 cans in 4 hours. I don't think i will worry, Yet....

Ok, I've dragged myself out of bed. I have a rotten hangover and I'm feeling very sorry for myself. I think I drank about 4 pints of bitter, five bottles of lager, two shots of something and helped my mate finish off her dodgy cocktail. How does that compare to everyone else?

Alcohol affects me quite badly. I don't keep it in the house as I'd never be able to stop drinking. The trouble is I've got lots of mates who drink heavily, so virtually any trip out, be it for a mid week trip to the local, a cinema trip or whatever, virtually always ends in stupid quantities of beer being put away. I can't remember anything about the last Lord of the rings film because of the "quick drink" we had beforehand.

Personally, if I never had to touch alcohol again I wouldn't miss it, so I'm certainly not addicted in that respect. My problem is that my social life would disappear if I didn't drink.

Originally posted by Funky Dave
Personally, if I never had to touch alcohol again I wouldn't miss it, so I'm certainly not addicted in that respect. My problem is that my social life would disappear if I didn't drink.

Hi Dave,
that is just about what I would have said a few years ago. When I was in my 20s

But
1)The associations with a good time and out in a pub, means that I sometimes have nothing to say to some of my good mates If we're in their house, so we go for a drink and the conversation flows. (is it to do with being a typical buttoned up englishman who has trouble expressing himself emotionally?)

2)I found myself continuing to drink on my own after I had gone home after saturday night out.

3)I am currently planning an all day drinking session for a weeks time (our yearly tradition)

4)Often when I'm out I wonder why I'm there, think it's boring, and would rather be at home.

No, but I certainly drink too much at the moment!

I enjoy it..............

Think on th poll there should have been an `other` option, did not agree with any offered.

Alcoholism has little to do with willpower. Alcoholics are in the grip of a powerful craving, or uncontrollable need for alcohol that overrides their ability to stop drinking, which can be as strong as the need for food or water. The majority of alcoholics require assistance to recover, involving treatment and support. The tendency for some individuals to develop alcoholism is strongly associated with genetics. Scientists have found that having an alcoholic family member increases the likelihood of and individual developing alcoholism. There are environmental factors that contribute to alcohol dependency as well, such as where and how he or she lives, family, friends, culture, peer pressure, and availability.

I just pasted this from the rehab link that Geoff has set up.

Ok Venger, maybe there should have been that catagory. But considering my original question was :-
What Is An Alcoholic ?
What would You consider an alcoholic to be?

Originally posted by muddycoffee
How Much drinking do you have to do before you consider yourself to be an alcoholic?



Sorry for being a little pedantic, I was not attacking you at all, so no offense intended.

My answer was not an alcoholic, but drink too much atm....

I guess someone who is reliant on the stuff would easily fit into that category!

In terms fo damaging your body from alcohol, think of it this way - the liver can process roughly 1 unit of alcohol per hour (rate dependant on metabolism). Any more than that will start to poison you - albeit mildly at first...

Personally, I only drank a bottle of wine this weekend, but I still felt a bit rough this morning!! How's everyone else?

i had quite a few beers on sat night, and felt absolutely fine on sunday. Which was good because I had to get on with tiling the bathroom.

I tried not drinking all weekend to prove to myself I don't have a problem.

I did ok, I only had one glass of red wine on Saturday night.

The urge to smoke was 10 times worse though, which is not good.

Felt great Sunday morning and walked to Walkley to see my Aunt.

Has anyone read Allen Carr's "Easy way to control alcohol"? I read it recently out of interest, being only a light drinker, and found it completely over the top. He considers anyone who drinks alcohol to be somewhere on the slide towards alcholism, i.e. a light drinker is in the very early stages. He does make some interesting points that make you think, such as our perceived need for alcohol at social occasions.

I have often worked in pubs, with Rock band PA, Disco or Karaoke. And believe me if you're the only one sober, ..

(due to doing a good job and needing to be responsive, and of course driving to and fro with equipment)

...drunk people are extremely tedius. I would rather stay at home than go out, if I couldn't drink. Of course if I lived In some remote place then of course it would be my duty to be the designated driver when it was my turn, but I don't I live in woodseats.

Yes Longshanks It is a problem, I fully recognise the mindless expection of drinking at social occasions. I have played in several bands, and the many times, a gig performance has been terrible, due to the Frontman being too drunk, I wouldn't care to mention! It's such a shame when it happens, and the rest of the band should show their solidarity and lay off the drink too until afterwards. I know a bass player who was so paralytic after a gig that some blokes walked off with all his gear.

I've had identical experience to you Muddy - when I used to do gigs, the singer used to get so drunk before we went on that she missed cues and I frequently had to give her a little kick to help her come in at the right point. It was so embarrassing.

I've given up alcohol temporarily but am still going out - but it's not the same without alcohol, especially when all your friends are drinking ... no matter how much I tell myself that it's not the alcohol that makes the evening enjoyable (so Allen Carr would have you believe). I think it would be ok if no-one else around you was drinking, because everyone would be acting differently.

Originally posted by Longshanks
I've given up alcohol temporarily but am still going out - but it's not the same without alcohol, especially when all your friends are drinking ... no matter how much I tell myself that it's not the alcohol that makes the evening enjoyable I went through a phase where alcohol gave me a splitting headache before I could get drunk, so I gave up and learned to party without. The trick is to just get laid back about everybody else's nonsense. Put away all of the rules we try to live life by that we use alcohol to forget, and just forget them anyway!! the number of people who've asaid to me 'you were so drunk last night....'

Thanks Strix, I'll try to focus on that thought on Fri night!:hihi:

BTW love your avatar.

Originally posted by Longshanks
BTW love your avatar. It's nearly as cute as Brude. He has the same coat!

mighnt sound like a daft question " someone what drinks to much" i here you say but i think theres quite a lot more to it. i lost a good friend last year to liver failure but not for a min did i class him as an alcholic. granted he called in the pub most days after work and had is usuall amount to drink, but i cant remember seeing him drunk.personally i go out about twice a week usually drink to much and feel illthe following day.im a bit stressed at the moment and for a bit i feel better having a drink. i think a lot of people use the pub as a social thing but just wondered what peoples thoughts on this subject are.

As it goes "U know ur alcoholic when u drink alone", so its basically when ur drinking stops being a social "relaxation assistant" and turns into a pure meens to relax. If u know what i meen.... :thumbsup:

some one who cannot function during the day without alcohol. some one who goes to the pub every night may not be an alcoholic but can be described as a heavy drinker. think there is a difference between an alcohol problem and being an alcoholic. in short alcholic implies addiction

must admit i like to callfor a drink most days after work, generally after a stressfull day. not always easy toget out the pub tho so dont really no where id put myself as regards drinking.

I agree LuckyR, I would say that an alcoholic is someone who can't do without alcohol.
Even if it's that glass or two of wine each night, if you can't do without it then you have a problem.

Originally posted by brooksy
must admit i like to callfor a drink most days after work, generally after a stressfull day. not always easy toget out the pub tho so dont really no where id put myself as regards drinking.

It sounds as though you're worried about your own drinking brooksy; if so, I'd suggest talking it over with your GP and getting some proper advice! You'll feel better when you know either way!

Good luck! :thumbsup:

K x

thanks think youv hit the nail on the head there

Don't know if you've already ready it but you might find this thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22715&highlight=alcoholic) helpful

Originally posted by Siân
Don't know if you've already ready it but you might find this thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22715&highlight=alcoholic) helpful

Thanks for that, saved me looking. Threads merged.

I think the key is are you able to go without a drink for an extended period without withdrawal symptoms. If not then you are an alcoholic. After my wife died in a car accident in 79, I went througha period when I was stoned most of the time, putting away dry martinis like water. After I married again and I saw the damage I was causing I slowed down to a couple of beers a day, then virtually nothing. At no time did I suffer withdrawal, unlike smoking which gave me hell. What I had gotten into was force of habit not alchoholism, wanting to be where "everybody knows your name", only everyone didn't turn out to be worth the trouble.

No but I know one
Everything has been said on this thread about alcholics but how to live with one. Or how they live with themselves having broken their word time and time again
The binges which go on for days and nights and the sweats, shakes and despair when they have to come down only for the whole cycle to start again in a few days. Sometimes not remembering where they were or what they had done. Things said to loved ones that cannot be taken back.
It all takes it's toll on family and friends.
hazel

In average terms I drink quite a lot but I'm an avid wine enthusiast so, to me, drinking is a way of life - it's something I do for the enjoyment of the taste. I probably drink about 5 nights a week and usually 2-3 glasses of wine.

Do you think that's a lot?

Originally posted by JonJParr
In average terms I drink quite a lot but I'm an avid wine enthusiast so, to me, drinking is a way of life - it's something I do for the enjoyment of the taste. I probably drink about 5 nights a week and usually 2-3 glasses of wine.

Do you think that's a lot?


Yes, You sound like a alcholic .
I know how easy it is to simply deny there might be a problem.
Why not seek help fron AA?

Originally posted by royjames
Yes, You sound like a alcholic .
I know how easy it is to simply deny there might be a problem.
Why not seek help fron AA?

in that case nearly everyone in France must be an alcoholic. As they tend to have a glass of wine with both lunch and dinner (at least 1 glass).

Originally posted by royjames
Yes, You sound like a alcholic .
I know how easy it is to simply deny there might be a problem.
Why not seek help fron AA?

Excuse me.... why do you think I'm an alcoholic? I'd hazard to suggest that those who binge drink are alcoholics and not those who enjoy wine and drink it for the taste AND NOT to get drunk.

Originally posted by JonJParr
In average terms I drink quite a lot but I'm an avid wine enthusiast so, to me, drinking is a way of life - it's something I do for the enjoyment of the taste. I probably drink about 5 nights a week and usually 2-3 glasses of wine.

Do you think that's a lot?

I'm similar... especially when I'm at my parents, and drinking with them! We tend to have a bottle of wine every night, at Uni or at home.... and often start off with a bottle of stella or two! Saturday nights are cocktail nights and the evening meal gets washed down with a cocktail!

I wouldn't say either you or me are alcoholics!

A disorder characterized by the excessive consumption of and dependence on alcoholic beverages, leading to physical and psychological harm and impaired social and vocational functioning. Also called alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence

Seems to me you are using booze for most of the week,and as a result your body is probably used to having booze in the system.
This is worying dont you think?
Either way its your body so its up to you.

:hihi:

I know this may sound flippant, but I'd say you're an alcoholic

"When You Don't Assess Your Alcohol Intake"

rather than when you do.

Originally posted by royjames
Seems to me you are using booze for most of the week,and as a result your body is probably used to having booze in the system.
This is worying dont you think?
Either way its your body so its up to you.

:hihi:

Drinking 'Wine' can be good for womens hearts (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4263417.stm)

Red Wine Wards Off Lung Cancer & Heart Disease (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3959121.stm)

Red Wine May Protect Against Smoking (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3197365.stm)

Wine protects against Dementia (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2440835.stm)


All those studies work out on a glass a day... I'd only ever drink an average of a glass a day, a bottle of wine between three people only serves one glass, although at uni it's a glass and half because there's only two of us red wine drinkers! Seems like wine on a daily basismight be a good thing!

Originally posted by royjames
Seems to me you are using booze for most of the week,and as a result your body is probably used to having booze in the system.
This is worying dont you think?
Either way its your body so its up to you.

:hihi:

I am not "using booze" - I'm drinking wine. My body is not "used" to having alcohol in my system. I'm neither reliant nor am I immune to its effects. I don't drink to intake alcohol, I drink to enjoy the smell, the sight and the taste of a good wine. The wine is not full of chemicals or flavourings - it's full of the juice of grapes that have been basked in sunlight, grown in a rich chalky soil and cooled by a warming evening breeze floating across the Medoc.
It all depends on your relationship with alcohol as to whether you're an alcoholic and that's not for you to assess Roy.

This is a very touchy and compliacted subject.

My mother was an abusive alocholic and in the end it killed her. Infact I had to give the doctors in intensive care the permission to turn the life support machine off.

Alcoholism comes in a variety of forms and people can be dependant at different levels.

There are numerous descriptions of what alcoholism is and here are a few..

A disease that includes alcohol craving and continued drinking despite repeated alcohol-related problems, such as losing a job or getting into trouble with the law. Symptoms include craving, impaired control, physical dependence, and increased tolerance.

Alcoholism is a type of drug dependence. There is both physical and psychological dependence on alcohol. Alcoholism is a primary, chronic, progressive, and sometimes fatal disease due to the habitual use of alcohol; often described as any "harmful use" of alcohol--meaning the alcoholic continues to drink despite recurrent social, personal, physical, or legal consequences as a result of their alcohol use.

A cluster of behavioral, cognitive, and physiological phenomena that develop after repeated substance misuse and that typically include a strong desire to take the drug, difficulties in controlling its use, persisting in its use despite harmful consequences, a higher priority given to its use than other activities and obligations, increased tolerance, and sometimes a physical withdrawal state.

Alcoholism is a disease that effects the family and friends of the person who drinks.

If anyone wants to talk to me about this - please feel free to PM me.

Originally posted by BruciesBabe
This is a very touchy and compliacted subject.

My mother was an abusive alocholic and in the end it killed her. Infact I had to give the doctors in intensive care the permission to turn the life support machine off.

Alcoholism comes in a variety of forms and people can be dependant at different levels.

There are numerous descriptions of what alcoholism is and here are a few..

A disease that includes alcohol craving and continued drinking despite repeated alcohol-related problems, such as losing a job or getting into trouble with the law. Symptoms include craving, impaired control, physical dependence, and increased tolerance.

Alcoholism is a type of drug dependence. There is both physical and psychological dependence on alcohol. Alcoholism is a primary, chronic, progressive, and sometimes fatal disease due to the habitual use of alcohol; often described as any "harmful use" of alcohol--meaning the alcoholic continues to drink despite recurrent social, personal, physical, or legal consequences as a result of their alcohol use.

A cluster of behavioral, cognitive, and physiological phenomena that develop after repeated substance misuse and that typically include a strong desire to take the drug, difficulties in controlling its use, persisting in its use despite harmful consequences, a higher priority given to its use than other activities and obligations, increased tolerance, and sometimes a physical withdrawal state.

Alcoholism is a disease that effects the family and friends of the person who drinks.

If anyone wants to talk to me about this - please feel free to PM me.

I think it's very brave of you to share your Mom's story with us. Thanks! :thumbsup:

K x

I drink too much (although only go out 1 or 2 nights a week but fit a lot in to them)

I never drink at home.

I think you have a problem when you think about having a drink every day.

I think I'm getting to the stages where I don't really enjoy alcohol anymore..

:help:

its not the alcohol I don't enjoy 9although being a drunken idiot I could do without :suspect: ) its the waste of free time taken over by the hangover....

Never really suffer with hangovers unless the drinks have been mixed.. in which case I feel crap most of the weekend (like the last one)

I gotta start being an adult at some point :suspect:

Thanks for that Kristian.

If my story or experiences can help anyone else, then i'm more than happy to share.

* bump *

Care to add to this, Siân? :hihi:

As many of you know, reading the forum, I am a recovering alcoholic. I will always be an alcoholic. I will never fully recover. I know people that have been recovering alcoholics for 40 plus years, always aware that one drink will lead them again into dependancy.

There are 3 main stages of alcohol intake, and this is very very broad. The social drinker that may drink at parties, weddings etc. but it doesn't worry them not to drink. They can have a glss of wine, then not ask for another.

Then there is the habitual drinker, a person that has to have e.g. 6 pints of lager a night, or always needs a stiff whiskey to get to sleep. This is followed by stage 3, the dependant drinker that needs a drink to go out to buy a bottle of drink.

The normal rule of thumb is that if you are loosing time from work, if you are disrupting your life, arguing, loss of memory, taking money for drink in preference to other things in life, it is causing illness, amongst many other things, then you have a problem. The problem with drinkers is that only a very small minority will admit to themselves it is a problem. I have done that.

Incidently, I was chairperson of an alcohol recovery project in Sheffield for 14 months but I hav left to start a new group with a different approach to recovery. It is called U-CAN, you can Control Alcohol Now.

Its alot of work getting it up and running and I hope to have regular meetings in the Autunm but if anybody would like to get involved please pm me.

when i was hanging around in sheffield i was drinking all day, every day for about 5 years.........then i stopped for a year cos i got acid indigestion

i still like a good drink but cos i get 2 day hangovers these days i dont get ******, just like a couple of cans / pints, trouble is i like it too much and 2 turns to 3 / 4 etc :P

currently i have a couple of cans a night?

everybodys addicted to something, i must say booze and weed are my faves, i stopped everything else cos they arent really "for me" i try not to drink or smoke these days cos i like it too much and could carry on, going up up up, drinking / smoking more

i also stopped smoking apart from the odd puff cos i have sinusitus too :(

My partner thinks that 4 cans of lager a night is to much.
what does anyone else thing?

That makes two of us then :thumbsup:

Yes, this is far too much if it is on a regular basis. Aside from anything else this is a huge number of calories.

Originally posted by baza1
4 cans of lager a night is to much
That's a bit Vague Baza1,
how much are you drinking daytime?

But seriously, search for some stuff on here about alcoholics, and I think you will find that amount quite trivial against alcoholic's intakes.

Although for a healthy person it might be too much for a healthy lifestyle, when about [a maximum of] half that is recommended per day.

Can I ask you if you have any other hobbies? It is much more useful to take interest in your general health and fitness than how much you weigh and how much you drink.

Alcoholics go to meetings.

Otherwise, you're merely a drunk.

Hard to say.

I would have scoffed at the notion that 4 cans a night was too much when I was drinking 4 cans a night. I would have scoffed at the notion when I was drinking 4 cans for breakfast too. Now I think maybe it was too much. It's the every night bit that worries me.

i think so but i have just downed 3/4 bottle of wine so who am i to talk

Does it matter what strength the cans are? I only drink low volume cans, surely that isn't as bad as drinking Stella or Special Brew?
I wouldn't get up for work if i did :hihi:
[EDIT] And what if you drink over a long period of time?
1 can an hour for example.

Originally posted by trewf
i think so but i have just downed 3/4 bottle of wine so who am i to talk
You CAN talk,
I have drunk 2 litres of strong lager, but more importantly I drunk no alcohol for 2 days and will probably not drink tomorrow, but if I do, it isn't much of a problem to me. I don't think about it all the time..

Through my job, I have met numerous alcoholics, who, without exception, have been seriously affected by their drinking habits.

Three examples.....

A female, in her early sixties, recently widowed. She could not get through the day without drinking at least a full bottle of sherry. Her daughter felt that she was drinking to suppress her grief. In fact, I discovered that she had a long-standing dependency on alcohol, and relatives had been shielded from her drunken excesses by a caring husband. The lady herself refused to acknowledge her drinking problem, and would fall over in a drunken stupor, resulting in her bashing her face, and once, even breaking her nose. I referred the family to the AA family support system.

A male, early 40s. Lived alone in a flat. Referred by a neighbour concerned that young teenagers had frequently been seen running to the off licence to purchase beer and whiskey. I found him confined to his bed. He had lost the use of his legs, and was immobile. His bedding was covered in his own faeces. The stench was unbelievable. He had no food in the flat, and he was severely dehydrated, and was drinking his own urine. His only concern was to ask me to get him some booze from the off license, offering a £20 note, and saying I could keep the change. Instead, I ordered an ambulance and got him admitted to hospital.

And for some alcoholics, drink induces a psychosis. I once witnessed a woman wildly splashing milk around her house to ward off three large monsters - visual hallucinations of course, but so terrifyingly real for her. I admitted that lady to a psychiatric hospital, where it was discovered that she had an untreated broken ankle which had caused a deformity of her foot. She must have been in a lot of physical pain from that injury, and yet she had not sought any medical help - just kept on drinking.

Alcoholism will kill. On the way to an early death, it will destroy marital and family relationships, cost jobs, and lead to debt and misery. And yet, the alcoholic will continue drinking. It is a disease. Until such time as the alcoholic recognises that they have a problem, and wants to do something about it, they will continue harming themselves, and wrecking their lives and those of their family.

But before anyone gets to the extremes I have cited above, the signs of alcoholism are usually apparent to someone. There is a need to drink - not just in a social setting, like the pub - but at home. Then there becomes the need to drink more. Not a glass or two of spirits, but a quarter bottle, then a half bottle. Not a can of beer, or a couple, but half a dozen cans. Then not just a drink in an evening, but in the afternoon as well, and eventually, even a nip, or a bottle or a can, of something in the morning. It is a slow, invidious descent into a living hell.

If anyone reading this thread thinks that they, or a family member, may have an alcohol related problem, there are a number of posters who have provided links or offered support services, or an opportunity for a personal chat via PM. Please do follow up one of these offers.

Hi,

I have realised of late that I am indeed an alcoholic, but then I suppose I have have known for some time but have refused to believe it. Anyway I finally took the first step and have contacted the AA and will be attending my first meeting next Thursday.

I was really worried about making the first step because I suppose i felt that I would feel like a really bad person, but it wasn't so, the lady I spoke to couldn't have been nicer if she tried and told me I was very brave for making that first step and being so honest with her. She has arranged for me to meet with another woman who has been sober for 13 years to accompany me to the meeting and I am looking forward to being sober.

Just felt the need to share this with you all.

Jane

I really hope you overcome this Jane. good on you for having the balls to admit it and seek help :thumbs:

redrobbo,

I was fine until I read your post.

Now, will you join me in a drink?


........... with my "Wallace & Grommit" tea bags?

I have cupboard full of tea but just had to buy the new "caddy"!

Hi,

I attended my first meeting and was pleasantly surprised by the people and the totally honesty of the people at AA.

I have to say that there was a great sense of fellowship towards one another and it did bring me to be totally honest about my illness and the fact that others related to me was great to finally feel that it wasn't just happening to me. Also I could relate to everyone that was at the meeting.

I would recommend an AA meeting to anyone who really wants to recover from alcohol.

Hope this is useful

Jane

I've sometimes got told off by lovers and ex lovers when I drink :| not too sure why its only them who complain, but they basically do it because I once had some trouble with my liver where I had some kind of infection or virus in it and it became enlarged and forcing nasty chemicals into my stomach and I still have a random lump there. But to be fair thats been going on for about 2 years and I sometimes need a drink to relax, well I don't need it, but it helps :)

I lie the song Bob by NOFX :)

Hi Jimbob,

What you described in your last post is what I thought in the beginning that I only wanted a drink to relax which was true to begin with but that wanted turned in to needee and that needed turned in to alcholism it's a slippery slope and if you have already had problems with your liver then i would strongly suggest that you sort help.

I hope you get the help you need.

Jane

Hi Jimbob,

What you described in your last post is what I thought in the beginning that I only wanted a drink to relax which was true to begin with but that wanted turned in to needee and that needed turned in to alcholism it's a slippery slope and if you have already had problems with your liver then i would strongly suggest that you sort help.

I hope you get the help you need.

Jane

ah, no, its nothing like that :) I never drink loads, usually a bottle or two of something on a friday or saturday night. As the for the liver, I suffered from I think it was hepititus A for a while about a year ago, cleared up now, and I have either a sist or cancer there now :| having some more tests for the lump in a few weeks.

The problems I had with my liver were not caused by drink. And I've never actually being drunk in my life :) always make sure I have enough control over myself.

Best wishes for every success with your AA counselling jane T. :thumbsup:

Hi Jimbo,

I really meant to cause no offence and I truly wish you all the best in the investigation in to your medical problem, I wish you all the best.
Jane

Hi redrobbo,

I would like to thank you for your kind words of encouragment, I intend to do my utmost to solve this problem that is blighting my life at present. I have a long road ahead of me, but it really helps when I have others to encourage me along the way.

Thank you

Jane

iya i av been drinkin for the past 2yrs none stop first it was 2/3 cans every few days then it came every day, know ive notcied i can drink 8 cans a night an not be ****** like i used to be, and do you think i am damging my liver it would be grateful for any1 to reply
thanx

Shame you cant select multiple options :/ - a few of those fall together..

iya what do you mean in your message?

iya i av been drinkin for the past 2yrs none stop first it was 2/3 cans every few days then it came every day, know ive notcied i can drink 8 cans a night an not be ****** like i used to be, and do you think i am damging my liver it would be grateful for any1 to reply
thanx


I'd say you were definately damaging your liver and would be wise to seek medical advice.

There was something on the tv last week showing how even those drinking 2 or more large glasses of wine a night are doing damage to their liver.

I think a vast amount of people abuse alcohol and as it appears socially acceptable to do so I don't see that changing.

i drink some nights after work but not everynight, maybe three or four nights a week

There's an interesting article here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/22/drinking_made_it_all_up/) in which it's admitted that the government's safe drinking guidelines are completely made-up figures which were produced on the basis that "you had to say something" rather than any scientific fact.

That said, a "safe drinking level" is a matter for the individual; if what you drink doesn't really affect your ability to do your job for example, I would say you're not an alcoholic. If it does, you are.....

There's an interesting article here (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/22/drinking_made_it_all_up/) in which it's admitted that the government's safe drinking guidelines are completely made-up figures which were produced on the basis that "you had to say something" rather than any scientific fact.

That said, a "safe drinking level" is a matter for the individual; if what you drink doesn't really affect your ability to do your job for example, I would say you're not an alcoholic. If it does, you are.....

I think if you find you absolutely cannot go through the day without having a drink then you are dependent on alcohol. Which can't be a good thing.

When you cannot get through the day with out a drink. when you have blackouts and cannot recall certain incidents ..

I think it is drinking every day and needing more and more to acheive the same affect. It is really hard to say when you become dependent on it.

Every now and then I have to cut back if I find myself drinking mid week.

I know quite a few people- both family and friends who have 'issues' with alcohol, some who recognise it and some who don't. I think it is so insidious in our society, and anyone who is trying to stop drinking altogether deserves a medal!

An alcoholic used to be someone who was addicted and dependent on booze.

The government seem keen nowadays to go along with the American definition of an alcoholic, ie if you do so much as enjoy a glass of sherry at Christmas you are a raving alcoholic. And should be taxed accordingly.

Surely an alcoholic is a mate who drinks more than you do?

iya i av been drinkin for the past 2yrs none stop first it was 2/3 cans every few days then it came every day, know ive notcied i can drink 8 cans a night an not be ****** like i used to be, and do you think i am damging my liver it would be grateful for any1 to reply
thanx

I think it very unlikely that constant drinking will allow your liver to escape harm in the long run, but it is impossible to say at this point whether you've irreversibly damaged your liver without a referral to a liver specialist at hospital and a range of function tests.

If you're drinking 8 cans every day then the odds are that you're doing damage and if you continue long term then it's very likely that you will have liver damage which may not be reversible- but giving up if you're drinking every day is not as easy as just stopping drinking so I'd suggest you go to your GP and tell them how much you drink and ask for their advice and support.

I was accused of being an alcoholic a few years ago and it was one of the most humiliating experiences of my life.
At that point I was having a bottle of wine with my neighbours on a Friday night and maybe a few beers dotted around through the week.
It was during the summer and we would sit out on the back garden to drink, my housemate (the accuser) would walk past the back door at several times during the course of an evening and see me with a beer in hand, it never occurred to her that it was the same beer and I was making it last.
Before mentioning it to me she contacted several members of my family and health care team and then waited for me to come home one day with a reception comity.
At that point I didn't know what to say I wasn't about to admit something that wasn't true and yet I was being told I was in denial.
It resulted in me being asked to move out if I didn't face up to my problem and so I became homeless.
Luckily our very own salster took me in until I could find somewhere more permanent.
I do joke about it now and have started to enjoy a night out on the lash without feeling like the world is judging me.
It took two years before peoples suspicions faded, thanks to my little love monkey loosing it and putting them right.
I usually drink on a Wednesday night, not enough to get drunk though, and on a weekend if I go out (that's when I get drunk).
That is my regular drinking pattern, of course some weeks it may be different depending on circumstances.

I once heard a definition of alcoholism that went something along the lines of 'Regular drinking that has a negative impact on any aspect of life not directly connected to drinking.'
So it would cover being too hungover to function effectively at work on a regular basis, arguments with family/partner as a result of drinking on a regular basis...
Possibly it's too inclusive, but once I'd heard it I couldn't shake it off.

in my early 20's i was out practically every night with my mates, could easily drink some men under the table, i can take it or leave it now, dont get me wrong its nice to have a pint but not necessary, i can now get merry on 3 pints

i lived with an alcoholic for 3 years or there abouts. he had to drink the minute he woke up and then drank constantly until he went to sleep again. he always made sure he had at least 4 litres of cider and a bottle of vodka for when he woke up. he couldnt work, couldnt eat, and never went out unless it was to the off licence. he stole my sons ps2 games, many dvds, money out of my purse, infact if he needed a drink he would take anything he could carry to sell so he could get his fix. he was violent if he couldnt get what he wanted which was always money. he went into rehab at michael carlisle centre for 2 weeks and did well. 2 weeks after he left there he was drinking again. last time i kicked him out was when we were told he had 3 years to live, i couldnt carry on living like i was.
this is what an alcoholic is, its being totaly dependant on alcohol and cant function without it.

"An alcoholic is someone you don't like who drinks as much as you do." - Dylan Thomas

You might be interested in this thread http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=229809&highlight=alcohol

i lived with an alcoholic for 3 years or there abouts. he had to drink the minute he woke up and then drank constantly until he went to sleep again. he always made sure he had at least 4 litres of cider and a bottle of vodka for when he woke up. he couldnt work, couldnt eat, and never went out unless it was to the off licence. he stole my sons ps2 games, many dvds, money out of my purse, infact if he needed a drink he would take anything he could carry to sell so he could get his fix. he was violent if he couldnt get what he wanted which was always money. he went into rehab at michael carlisle centre for 2 weeks and did well. 2 weeks after he left there he was drinking again. last time i kicked him out was when we were told he had 3 years to live, i couldnt carry on living like i was.
this is what an alcoholic is, its being totaly dependant on alcohol and cant function without it.


That is the final stage of alcoholism. Addicts have usually had many years of being able to apparently function and hold down jobs, not drinking 24 hours a day etc, but it's still been alcoholism, it's a progressive condition which causes problems long before anyone suspects the issue is drink. Even while reasonably functional they still commit reckless acts and cruelty. There is a great deal of ignorance about the true nature, causes and progress of alcoholism. Even doctors and counsellors can be in blind denial themselves, and perpetuate the misconceptions. Addiction rates in the medical profession are notoriously high.* I was speaking to a friend who works as a marriage counsellor the other day, and she turned out to know literally nothing about alcoholism when I brought up the subject, which considering it's one of the primary causes of marriage problems is pretty shocking.

What most people think they know about alcoholism in fact comes from exactly the excuses that alcoholics make to deny they have a problem.

*The definition of an alcoholic is someone who drinks more than their doctor - a joke told to me by a doctor.

And

thank you all for replyin it has helped