I'm watching a program on Channel 4 about an up and coming Rap/Hip Hop/RnB artist.

My question is this:

Is modern day rap a musical revolution? Or is it someone just talking very quickly over very repetitive, computer produced music?

Er, the last option.

One day it will be considered as bizarre as Yodeling. Soon, I hope. Very soon.

I like some 'old school' hip-hop. There was a time when people thought this music was really the future, and guitar/bass/drums was all but dead. Then
The Stone Roses came along and brought everyone to their senses.

Don't get me wrong. I do like some rap. I love the Beastie Boys, I own a lot of their stuff. I really liked the funk injection offered by Grandmaster Flash and Run DMC. I also enjoy the 'poppier' side of it as in Tone Loc and Sir Mix-a-lot and could see the political power and drive behind Public Enemy and NWA.

However, I do feel that the modern stuff is getting very tedious and boring. To me, the likes of 50 Cent and P Diddy are recording stuff that is extremely repetitive and they don't sound bothered while they're singing/speaking. The music itself sounds like it's a pre-recorded track on a cheap keyboard and there's no passion there. At least the early rap/hip hop had some balls behind it.

If you like music with a 'dark' feel to it (as i do), listen to Eric B & Rakim's 'Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em'.

It's not so much music with a dark feel, I just like my music with a bit of passion and technical proficiency, as well as being done well. I've found the early stuff ticks at least one of these boxes, but the new stuff struggles in my mind.

I hate all mainstream hip hop that comes out nowadays but stuff is coming out that is a whole world apart from that. El-P's new album is mindblowing. I challenge anyone to listen to it and say hip hop is stagnant. Its the same with any genre. Ignore whats on tv and radio and seek out the good stuff.

Just because it's in the public eye doesn't mean it's always crap. I like some thing's I've heard in the charts, even though the majority of the music I like is from the 70's and 80's.

p diddy and 50 cent are the rap equivalent of danni minouge and maddona.
If you listen to hip hop djs like dj Riz, cut chemist ,dj js1, the scratch perverts, jazzy jeff, danger mouse (the grey album-a mix between the beatles white album and jay-z's black album) rappers like Canibus, immortal technique, fort minor, tribe called quest, dela soul, jurrasic 5, apathy&celph titled, eminem, big L. all quality and in my eyes all ar holding true to hip hop and there all different from each other, they all tel good stories with generally great beats. and tons of passion.
p diddy never made one really good track,ever.

p diddy and 50 cent are the rap equivalent of danni minouge and maddona.
If you listen to hip hop djs like dj Riz, cut chemist ,dj js1, the scratch perverts, jazzy jeff, danger mouse (the grey album-a mix between the beatles white album and jay-z's black album) rappers like Canibus, immortal technique, fort minor, tribe called quest, dela soul, jurrasic 5, apathy&celph titled, eminem, big L. all quality and in my eyes all ar holding true to hip hop and there all different from each other, they all tel good stories with generally great beats. and tons of passion.
p diddy never made one really good track,ever.I hear you bro - Rap/hip hop when done well is poetry set to music - you have to know what to go for tho. Bands like the above, also, The roots, wu tang clan, nas, anti pop consortium, herbaliser etc are positive role models for the next generation. If you see the roots live you will see that they play all their own instruments and musically are similar to jazz but with lyrics rapped over the top.

The Stone Roses never woke anyone one up who was a true rap aficionado. That would be like comparing cheese with sky diving! You can enjoy both!:D

When hip-hop first developed it certainly was a 'musical revolution' that was a long time ago and now hip-hop is simply another established genre albeit in my opinion one of the most creative out there.

As with other genres most hip-hop is crap and much of that which makes the charts is rather generic, marketing driven lowest common denominator rubbish it’s no different from rock in that respect.

However there is still a great deal of very good stuff out there and in my opinion at least at the moment (and indeed ever since it appeared) hip-hop is a significantly more innovative and interesting genre than rock, hardly surprising I suppose really considering how much longer rock has been around.

I was a rap maniac when I feel it was its best when the roster of talent was at its prime (in my lifetime) between 89 - 98. Whilst there are still some good talents out there, for me, nobody defeats Nas even though Eminem is my personal favourite.

Dig deeper people....!

Little Brother
The Roots
Common
Slum Village
Madlib
J Dilla (RIP)
Nicolay
Mos Def
Strange Fruit Project
Flying Lotus
Talib Kweli
Oddisee
Nas
Kev Brown
etc...

A whole new world awaits you... :)

there are bucketloads of tossers making crap records in every genre...that the charty rap/rnb bilge gets to represent hiphop music to the masses really bugs me.

as prev posters have said, there are loads of innovative and creative groups/producers/mcs out there...just gotta sniff em out.

Eric B and Rakim...yes mate:) when i get home im banging on 'follow the leader'-

word!

I personally can't stand rap, and it applies to all that I have listened too. The lyrics to some are quite good, but the style that they are sung, I mean talked in just brings them down. They could be better used in a more melodic style of music.

Far as I know Hip Hop is what a DJ does and should be seperate from what the rapper or singer does.

Two totally different animals, people like Mary J Blige etc are in my opinion soul or RnB artists. People like Eminem are rappers which is very different from RnB.

People like Jazzy Jeff, Cash Money, Flash etc are Hip Hop DJ's again which is different. They don't need somebody singing or rapping to be hip hop.

Now as in the case of pretty much all genres of music there are really only two types of rap music. Stuff you like and stuff you don't. For me there is only a tiny amount that I hear and of that only a tiny percentage that I actually like.

Bring back bubblegum, I say, now THAT was real music .....

Dozy

To me, there are three types of music:

1. Music you love

2. Music you don't like but can respect why people do and, regardless of how good the musician ship is and the song writing, you just can't get on with it. Like me with the Beatles. I can understand why they were huge and widely acclaimed, even after all this time, I just can't get on with the music.

3. Music that is truly, absolutely so bad that anyone caught listening to it should be shot. I'm meaning the likes of Boyzone, Westlife, Take That, Agadoo, The Birdy Song, Celine Dion (Mainly because of 'My Heart Will Go On', much like the song itself. Or the 'Hot Dog' song as I like to call it) and the list goes on. These are acts/songs that offer absolutely no musical merit whatsoever. The likes of Westlife are aimed at a specific audience who will buy it no matter what is produced, bit like an alcoholic drinking Special Brew. Tastes like crap, but it gets you drunk. Westlife have the songs written for them, get told how to act on stage (Look for the 'bums off stools, walk to front of stage, look sincere' routine 30 seconds from the end of a song), they are told what to wear, how to style their hair. They have no musical talent whatsoever.

Or, is it just me?

To me, there are three types of music:

1. Music you love

2. Music you don't like but can respect why people do and, regardless of how good the musician ship is and the song writing, you just can't get on with it. Like me with the Beatles. I can understand why they were huge and widely acclaimed, even after all this time, I just can't get on with the music.

3. Music that is truly, absolutely so bad that anyone caught listening to it should be shot. I'm meaning the likes of Boyzone, Westlife, Take That, Agadoo, The Birdy Song, Celine Dion (Mainly because of 'My Heart Will Go On', much like the song itself. Or the 'Hot Dog' song as I like to call it) and the list goes on. These are acts/songs that offer absolutely no musical merit whatsoever. The likes of Westlife are aimed at a specific audience who will buy it no matter what is produced, bit like an alcoholic drinking Special Brew. Tastes like crap, but it gets you drunk. Westlife have the songs written for them, get told how to act on stage (Look for the 'bums off stools, walk to front of stage, look sincere' routine 30 seconds from the end of a song), they are told what to wear, how to style their hair. They have no musical talent whatsoever.

Or, is it just me?

I agree wi that.

I'd call category 3 'music for people who don't like music'. You know, they've got a CD player or iPod or car stereo, and aren't really sure what to put on it.

Or the people that say: "I like music, I put it on while I'm ironing". Which is fine, I listen to music while I'm doing stuff, but I listen to it for pleasure too.

A girl at work said to me the other day: "I love rock music. I like Sweet Child O' Mine!" When I asked which was her favourite album, she didn't know G'N'R had done anything else. She thought they were a one hit wonder. Her favourite song ever is 9 to 5 by Dolly Parton. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Dolly Parton, she's a well respected singer/songwriter/performer, but that's the only song of hers she knows.

Then, there's the 'boybands' aimed at either the 10-16 year old girls, or 35-50 year old mums. The ones where these women want to mother them because they're so squeaky clean and nauseating. It's too easy listening with no actual content other than sickeningly sweet lyrics based on love and heartache. Love songs should only be sang by the people that have wrote them, or by someone who is capable of putting emotion in to a song, not these puppets.

To me, there are three types of music:

1. Music you love

2. Music you don't like but can respect why people do and, regardless of how good the musician ship is and the song writing, you just can't get on with it. Like me with the Beatles. I can understand why they were huge and widely acclaimed, even after all this time, I just can't get on with the music.

3. Music that is truly, absolutely so bad that anyone caught listening to it should be shot. I'm meaning the likes of Boyzone, Westlife, Take That, Agadoo, The Birdy Song, Celine Dion (Mainly because of 'My Heart Will Go On', much like the song itself. Or the 'Hot Dog' song as I like to call it) and the list goes on. These are acts/songs that offer absolutely no musical merit whatsoever. The likes of Westlife are aimed at a specific audience who will buy it no matter what is produced, bit like an alcoholic drinking Special Brew. Tastes like crap, but it gets you drunk. Westlife have the songs written for them, get told how to act on stage (Look for the 'bums off stools, walk to front of stage, look sincere' routine 30 seconds from the end of a song), they are told what to wear, how to style their hair. They have no musical talent whatsoever.

Or, is it just me?

No - it's me too!! At least when I was younger and listened to total crap, I knew it was total crap and didn't try to dignify it by having "serious" discussions about it.

Dozy

Not that anyone who doesn't play the game will know, but if any of you have OBLIVION: ELDER SCROLLS for the PC it has the best peices of music you have ever heard. I have them in a play list in Media player they are so tranquil and beautifully peiced together. Infact I predict a new thread...

Far as I know Hip Hop is what a DJ does and should be seperate from what the rapper or singer does.

Two totally different animals, people like Mary J Blige etc are in my opinion soul or RnB artists. People like Eminem are rappers which is very different from RnB.

People like Jazzy Jeff, Cash Money, Flash etc are Hip Hop DJ's again which is different. They don't need somebody singing or rapping to be hip hop.

Now as in the case of pretty much all genres of music there are really only two types of rap music. Stuff you like and stuff you don't. For me there is only a tiny amount that I hear and of that only a tiny percentage that I actually like.


i think you are wrong on a couple of points. 'Hiphop' as a term encompasses the so caled four elements - turntablism, breaking, graffiti and mc-ing. 'Hiphop music' is basically an amalgam of the first and last elements ive mentioned here.

And saying that RnB has no relationship with hiphop music is also wrong. Mary J Blige was coined 'the queen of hiphop soul' when she first came out, and other notable RnB singers have cited hiphop music as an influence.

What you need to understand is how to use these terms properly, ive included a link for you here (http://www.djemir.com/hiphophistory.html)

hope this clarifies things for you:)

And finally, regardless of how you try and delineate it, crap and bland RnB, with some numpty 'rapping' on it, does bear a relationship to 'hiphop culture', and by proxy 'hiphop music'...as much as i wish it didnt.

If you want to hear some good rap, also try...

Mark B & Blade
Kalashnekov
Taskforce
Public Enemy (still doing it live)

or hiphop djs
Woody
Sully
Mr Thing
Yoda (especially his early mixtapes, a musical innovator back then)

Don't know loads about it, but have either LPs/mixtapes or seen the above live & really rate them

...and RnB as people call it today has absolutely nothing to do with rythym and blues...but that's a whole new topic ;)

leviathan13 you have it nailed :)

I really detested having to buy a friends 7 year old daughter a Shane Ward CD for her birthday....I was thinking of swapping for Pink by Boris, at least that's real music but has a nice girly cover and CD ;)