Remember the headlines earlier this year
Where 5 children were found starving to death, but the parents had all mod cons ?

Well its just been on the news that the parents have been sentenced to 7 years, not long enough in my opinion.

What do you think ?

7 years. Add another 15 or 20 and I'll be happy

should get life. Never saa daylight again. Having brand new dvd player and tv while ignoring their children....

it is a shame in this case that we don't have a death penalty...

They have starved and tortured their own kids i dont think they should get life i thing they to should be tortured to a slow starving death!

Sorry to sound harsh but it is wrong what they have done

I seem to remember at the time, certain board members were critical of people critising them - well I note they are quiet now.

7 years is 7 years too short for the SCUM

It should be 7 years for each child and then another 7 for good luck!, ohh..no, i don't want them to have any good luck so they can have another 7 years to make up for the good luck i gave them earlier!.

B*$****$. Sorry!

I agree with Vidster,7 years for each child +7 years,theres no excuse for this,i hope these children will be able to put ,what has happened to them,behind them and i pray they never want any contact with these evil people again,God bless you kids.

same here but i hope that when they have kids of there pwn they treat them well not reflect what has happened to them onto their own children!

I think the parents should also be sterilised so they can't ever
have children again !

And social diservices should hang their heads in shame
Just hope the kids are now ok

Originally posted by geno
same here but i hope that when they have kids of there pwn they treat them well not reflect what has happened to them onto their own children!

Why would you think these kids are likely to treat their own kids in the same way? Don't you think they might realise how bad it felt, and be determined not to let anything bad happen to their own kids when they have their own?

Social Services never knew about this so why should they hang their heads in shame?

Makes me wonder what goes on behind some front doors.

Originally posted by Patchy
Why would you think these kids are likely to treat their own kids in the same way? Don't you think they might realise how bad it felt, and be determined not to let anything bad happen to their own kids when they have their own?

Because Abusers are generally much more likely to have been abused themselves.

Does this excuse the behaviour of people who put thier kids through this kind of hell? No of course not. But I think it does provide an insight into why some abusers do 'it'.

Mat

Mat

Where is the evidence that abusers tend to have been abused themselves. Is this generic -sexual, emotional, physical?

How much abuse does someone have to suffer before they cross over and becomes an abuser?

I agree that 7 years is not long enough as it will be a lot less with good behaviour. Don't pour all the blame on social services though. they have a tough enough job. Yes, they should have known about the couple and intervened, but they were not informed. Apparently people who babysat for the couple noticed that things were not right. They should have informed Social Services. If Social Services had gone in and it was not warranted, they would have been accused of a heavy handed approach.
According to the news tonight, all the kids are alive, although one of them might suffer permanent sensory loss. They cannot tell yet.

Originally posted by Bloomdido
Mat

Where is the evidence that abusers tend to have been abused themselves. Is this generic -sexual, emotional, physical?

How much abuse does someone have to suffer before they cross over and becomes an abuser?

Not sure where the raw figures come from, went on a Child Protection Course for my Job recently and it came up from one of the trainers.

As I said, I aint condoning what they do, I just think its an interesting topic; what turns 'normal' people into abusers (or killers, rapists etc etc) are they born with some inherent gene abnormality or is it learnt behaviour??

I dunno..........

Mat

Originally posted by mat1978
Because Abusers are generally much more likely to have been abused themselves.

Does this excuse the behaviour of people who put thier kids through this kind of hell? No of course not. But I think it does provide an insight into why some abusers do 'it'.

Mat

Or perhaps it provides a convenient excuse for abusers.

Can someone be born evil or is it learned?

Originally posted by alienmaria
I think the parents should also be sterilised so they can't ever
have children again !
And social diservices should hang their heads in shame
Just hope the kids are now ok
Compulsory sterilisation should be an option for these types, definately.
Social Services aren't to blame for this one though.

i think what we really need to focus on is not the punishment or where the blame lies but prevention of this type of crime. Although i do agree they should throw away the key on the parents - it really doesn't matter now, its too little too late.
those kids will live with the memories forever and it will effect every relationship they ever have and who they become, even the young ones who won't remember and won't even know why they wake up with nightmares.

as has been mentioned social services do have a hard job to do but we're talking about children here, this is too important too ignore.

My job sometimes brings me in contact with abused / neglected children and their abusers / parents. It is a highly complex issue with regard to the impact on the children involved. It should not be forgotten that although they are obviously in a situation which need to stop if they are being abused or neglected, the children usually still love their parents despite all the negativity.

My hat goes off to foster parents who have a hell of a job trying to pick up the pieces and give a warm, safe and loving environment to some very broken little people.

Also, it remains a fact that many people who as young adults are involved in heroin / crack and live a chaotic lifestyle, involved in crime on a daily basis, come from backgrounds of neglect / abuse.

As a parent of a lovely little girl, I am very conscious of the fact that I have been blessed with the task of guiding this little soul through her life and into adulthood, so that she is a well balanced, loving and educated person. The idea that there are people out there who abuse and neglect children fills me with horror....it is clear that there actions will permeate through society like a cancer.........7 years is just not enough, either as punishment or as a deterrant.

I have a lot of respect for anyone involved in the human side of actually sorting out these problems.

Its all very well to pontificate about "evil" when one of these cases comes into the public eye, and then forget about it. But what is needed is action to sort out the problems rather than philosophical debate.

The impact of the abuse on these poor kids will not be known until they develop into adults. Hopefully their new lives will be happy and will reduce any effect this had on them. My question is what were the neighbours doing? Didnt they see how ill the kids looked? I dont want to blame people but surely this was noticeable? Social Services were unaware as they rely on people to report such abuse, or at least that they suspect abuse.

Also, we cant really assume that as the parents may have been abused, that they will then abuse their kids. Many parents who suffered abuse as kids turn the tables when they are parents and make sure their kids have the best possible upbringing. I think others use it as an excuse for their disgusting behaviour.

If I was living next door to them I would have taken action I am sure, given how badly the kids were treated, the state they must have been in.

Does this say much about society today? A few years ago this would not have been allowed to go so far as neighbours communicated more.

Unless I've missed some detail, there isn't any reference to social services involvement.
I should have thought the school's having seen the state of the eldest girl would have uncovered the abuse before this child had to see her brother almost dying.
Granma

First - totally agree, the sentence is far too short and makes a mockery of the legal system. It should have been 7 years for EACH child, plus some. These people could be out in less than half their sentence (as the time on remand will be counted) I think.

Second - abused do not become abusers - that is a myth.

Third - Social Services cannot be blamed for the horrific acts of parents. Everyone connected with this family - neighbours, teachers, relatives etc should have stuck their neck out and made some sort of complaint, then Social Services may have got involved and may have been able to do something.

Fourth - these children, given the right love, care and attention should be able to grow up into rational and caring adults. People can become whatever they want to be - despite their unfortunate start in life.

Foster carers/adopted parents will all play a vital role in their further development - hats off to them!

The saving grace is that these kids have been saved and will have a better future. I think this is a lesson for all to ensure that they keep their eyes and ears peeled in future.

Second - abused do not become abusers - that is a myth

sorry, when did I say that??

What I said is that, generally more people who are abusers have had some experience of being abused themselves. Dont mis-qoute what I said, its this type of bull sh*t that takes the focus of why people do it.

oh, and as I was asked (quite fairly) where do you get your information that its a myth?

Mat:loopy:

The b*****ds should get life for that kind of treatment, the story made me recoil in horror, 5 defenseless kids, surely social services should have stepped in coz if they were at school, someone should have noticed their state and if they were not at school the question is why didnt social services step in to find out why they werent at school?????????????? :rant:

I read today that the parents family had regularly babysat for the 5 children.
If this is the case then WHY did the family members not report them?.

Widescreen TV
DVD player x2
Cable TV
Computer
Pet fish (at least they were fed)
1 tin of corned beef and some sprouts?

I am really struggling to understand the mindset of the parents!. I think they need to be in Broadmoor not prison.

Surely it would make more sense to sterilise this couple so they can't have any more children. They probably won't have a good time in prison, as the other inmates will make their lives hell.

Originally posted by Bloomdido
Can someone be born evil or is it learned?

Could be either.

Surely if they have been abused they are not going to want to carry on with the "tradition".

As a fostercarer, with children (2 out of 6) in my care that were treated as the children were in the Sheffield case.
I feel that I must add to this thread, comments that were said by my foster kids, as they saw the news item.

"That was just like our old home"
"Are they safe like us now?"
"Why did our parents NOT go to prison?, they should have"

(and what brought a tear to my eye was)

"I hope those kids have a new mum and dad like we do, a mum and dad that shows us we are loved."

Good on you sussex :thumbsup:.

Welcome to the forum but i thought i had seen your name on here before?.
Are you a member of any pc tweaking forums?

Originally posted by ianmitchell
Surely if they have been abused they are not going to want to carry on with the "tradition".

I'm not so sure. I think that someone who is abused could abuse others. Sadly, that is often the only way they know of resolving situations (eg, hitting a crying child instead of comforting them).

And you will always get the odd parent saying "I were slapped round t'ead when I were a lad an' it never did me any 'arm"

Note to the hang 'em & flog 'em brigade - I'm not trying to find excuses for the parents, nor am I saying that all abused children turn into abusers; I'm only providing my opinion to Bloomdido's question.

My thanks to you all

Apparently there was no history of mental problems in the case so there was no excuse for the way these people behaved towards their young offspring.

It's saddening to think that in this day and age, there are children who are clearly unwanted by their parents, especially when there are so many people who can't have children.

The really sickening thing is these people will no doubt be released in 3 and a half years, with good behaviour and start procreating all over again.

Originally posted by MovingOn
Apparently there was no history of mental problems in the case so there was no excuse for the way these people behaved towards their young offspring.

It's saddening to think that in this day and age, there are children who are clearly unwanted by their parents, especially when there are so many people who can't have children.

The really sickening thing is these people will no doubt be released in 3 and a half years, with good behaviour and start procreating all over again.

I don't think they will be allowed to procreate. As far as I am aware the law will require them to be sterilised.

I read it in the star last night.This man & woman fed themselves , they even fed the sodding gioldfish but not their own children.They knew what they were doing, no excuses for them.What i dont understand is this:any child under the age of 5 is supposed to be seen by the health worker,especially under the age of 1 for their jabs, haering tests. weight etc,etc,.I cant understand why the health visitor didnt pick up on this one.Also anybody going into the house & seeing these poor kids should have known something was very wrong.The babysitter could have spoken out.And it took a child of 8 to convince her mum to get an ambulance cause she thought her little brother had died?.And it turns out that this woman happened to be pregnant again and has an abortion while in prison on remand.Doe she think (dont matter if one dies i can soon have another?) it makes you wonder doesnt it?
This one is beyond belief to me, i cant get my head round it.And i cant think of a punishment bad enough for these rotten ,evil, low life B******S.

Originally posted by tattoo
I read it in the star last night.This man & woman fed themselves , they even fed the sodding gioldfish but not their own children.They knew what they were doing, no excuses for them.What i dont understand is this:any child under the age of 5 is supposed to be seen by the health worker,especially under the age of 1 for their jabs, haering tests. weight etc,etc,.I cant understand why the health visitor didnt pick up on this one.Also anybody going into the house & seeing these poor kids should have known something was very wrong.The babysitter could have spoken out.And it took a child of 8 to convince her mum to get an ambulance cause she thought her little brother had died?.And it turns out that this woman happened to be pregnant again and has an abortion while in prison on remand.Doe she think (dont matter if one dies i can soon have another?) it makes you wonder doesnt it?
This one is beyond belief to me, i cant get my head round it.And i cant think of a punishment bad enough for these rotten ,evil, low life B******S.

It isn't compulsory that a child see a health worker under the age of 5. My daughter hasn't seen one to be wieghed etc. So I woiuldn't say that the health workers are at fault. I do wonder if the children attended school though as it is compulsory to report concerns there.

Originally posted by bonny
I don't think they will be allowed to procreate. As far as I am aware the law will require them to be sterilised.
Unfortunately not true. There's nothing to stop them being released and starting again (except any babies would now be taken into care by the authorities) This pair should forfeit the right to have more children.
You wonder what sort of families these people come from. They had their first kiddie when they were both 15 and they've hardly missed a year since.
Apparently their previous house was left with s*** streaked walls and floors and urine all over the kitchen. prresumably this must be a common occurence as the Council clearly did not investigate how the house came to be left in such a state.

I agree they should be both sterilised

And i expect they are gonna be very popular in the nick

I am noy saying the health visitor was at fault, all babies need their jabs ,plus the usual assesments that health visitors are supposed to do (the hearing test at nine month, booster jabs at 10 months).How did they manage to avoid this?
I found the whole thing deeply disturbing,cant begin to imagine what those poor kids went through.I am jusy hoping & praying that these kids are young enough to be able to get through it all without too much physical & emotional damage.

All children are precious and deserve to be loved, kept warm, fed and be protected by their parents, not treated like dirt.Its just so disturbing that any human being can do this to thier own children,while taking care of a goldfish.Can anybody out there make sense of that one cause i sure as hell cant.

Originally posted by tattoo
I am noy saying the health visitor was at fault, all babies need their jabs ,plus the usual assesments that health visitors are supposed to do (the hearing test at nine month, booster jabs at 10 months).How did they manage to avoid this?


I agree with what you are saying and certainly not digging at you. Not all children are vaccinated though. Some parents disagree with vaccinations. Like I said My daughter has never seen a health visitor she is now 3. I have never felt the need for my daughter to visit one. It is very easy to avoid it, you just don't make an appointment to see them.

Sorry i couldnt get back to you sooner Bonny. The reason i cant understand about the health visitor is this ;
Where i live doctor, parents & health visitor are all closley linked.If a parent doesnt take their baby for jabs, tests, check ups etc, the health visitor will call to see if there are any problems.A card is sent out just befoe the due date to remind people of check up dates , jabs and so on.Also up to a year old all babies are weighed priodically to check thier progress. Your baby even recieves a first Birthday Card from the doctors practice. With this close knit working of parents, doctor, and health visitor being the norm for us ,you can see why i was alarmed that it wasnt picked up on sooner.