I heard about this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6618135.stm) the other day. I wonder if the Queen will be paying a visit to Iraq to pay tribute to the many thousands that have died due to the actions of her government and what about the citizens of Afghanistan, do they get the Queens sympathy too?

I think she has to do whatever is expedient

What's your problem. She is our head of state and she is visiting an important ally? This is not sucking up - the USA are our friends.

I'm sure that the Queen on her next Royal visit to Iraq will pay a visit to any memorials they may have built or may build in the future.
I believe the Queen is there to celebrate the 400th year of the first colony in America. Perhaps a little less cynicism from people in this world may mean that it's a nicer place?

What's your problem. She is our head of state and she is visiting an important ally? This is not sucking up - the USA are our friends.

My problem is and I quote "On behalf of the people of the United Kingdom I extend my deepest sympathies at this time of such grief and sorrow". Then why not on behalf of the people of the United Kingdom does she not say something about the crappy state of affairs the US administration has dragged us in to? I don't like my country being an ally with the world's bully.

My problem is and I quote "On behalf of the people of the United Kingdom I extend my deepest sympathies at this time of such grief and sorrow". Then why not on behalf of the people of the United Kingdom does she not say something about the crappy state of affairs the US administration has dragged us in to? I don't like being an like my country being an ally with the world's bully.

It's people like you who lost us the British Empire. Go and live in a cave with Bin Laden if you like him so much.:hihi: :hihi:

My problem is and I quote "On behalf of the people of the United Kingdom I extend my deepest sympathies at this time of such grief and sorrow". Then why not on behalf of the people of the United Kingdom does she not say something about the crappy state of affairs the US administration has dragged us in to? I don't like my country being an ally with the world's bully.

Then perhaps you ought to go on a state visit yourself and see what they say?

I heard about this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6618135.stm) the other day. I wonder if the Queen will be paying a visit to Iraq to pay tribute to the many thousands that have died due to the actions of her government and what about the citizens of Afghanistan, do they get the Queens sympathy too?

If they had had the courage to overthrow Saddam after the first Gulf War, this one would not have been neccessary.
The problems in the Middle East have been brought on by the Arabs and no one else.
They are the ones who should be apologising, they could start off by giving symapathy to the negroes, for the Slave Trade, which they invented, organised and grew rich from.
They could then continue by showing sympathy to the jews for their support of the Nazis.
The list, if you want to make it, is quite enormous.

Then perhaps you ought to go on a state visit yourself and see what they say?

You paying?

Anyway, it is constitutionally improper for Her Majesty to make political statements so even if she did side with Galloway and his bunch of Respect cronies she would not be allowed to say so publically.

If they had had the courage to overthrow Saddam after the first Gulf War, this one would not have been neccessary.
The problems in the Middle East have been brought on by the Arabs and no one else.
They are the ones who should be apologising, they could start off by giving symapathy to the negroes, for the Slave Trade, which they invented, organised and grew rich from.
They could then continue by showing sympathy to the jews for their support of the Nazis.
The list, if you want to make it, is quite enormous.

You're stating that the Arabs should have sympathy towards the people they have caused ills towards which i agree with. No British citizen has caused any ills in Virginia yet she's giving out sympathy on our behalf. However we have caused a lot of damage these past few years and not one word of sympathy.

Can they not keep her there?!? Please :help:

Anyway, it is constitutionally improper for Her Majesty to make political statements so even if she did side with Galloway and his bunch of Respect cronies she would not be allowed to say so publically.

But she is perfectly entitled to give out sympathy whilst on a relationship building mission. Smells political to me.

But she is perfectly entitled to give out sympathy whilst on a relationship building mission. Smells political to me.

But she's in America building a relationship not Iraq....

You're stating that the Arabs should have sympathy towards the people they have caused ills towards which i agree with. No British citizen has caused any ills in Virginia yet she's giving out sympathy on our behalf. However we have caused a lot of damage these past few years and not one word of sympathy.

By 'we', are you referring to Tony Blair (our former prime minister)?

But she's in America building a relationship not Iraq....

Why does she have to build a relationship with America? We have followed them into an illegal war, what more do they want? She should be off building relationships with more deserving countries.

By 'we', are you referring to Tony Blair (our former prime minister)?

No I mean the country who he represents. He isn't former yet. Is he?

I wonder if the next PM will be brainwashed..

I'd love for one to have the ability to say 'No Mr Bush'

Why does she have to build a relationship with America? We have followed them into an illegal war, what more do they want? She should be off building relationships with more deserving countries.

Ahem - you still not quite got it have you? She's there to celebrate the 400th Anniversary of the Jamestown colony founding... she didn't go there with the whole purpose to give sympathy!

I am well aware of why she went there in the first place. I also read "There have already been calls for her to apologise for the introduction of slavery and slaughter of American Indians.", I'll bet she would have no problem apologising for that. If the only reason for her going is for the 400th anniversary of the Jamestown colony founding, why go giving sympathy for matters which don't concern us or her.

Maybe the Old Hen just prefers a week in Virginia to a week in Southend On Sea? The dollar's trading quite nicely at the mo, too which gives us tax payers 'cracking value for money'.

(Not only that, it's safer taking Prince Philip over the pond. Can you imagine him in Iraq? 'Oh bugger, I see the bloody British Army are here, too. Can't they go and do some real fighting?')

Ok - let's put it this way.
You go to your friends house to say, have dinner. You know that in the last week they have had tragic loss so it's only manners to give them your sympathy when you are there. If you don't then it's kinda like the 'elephant in the room' if it gets mentioned.

In the end it come's down to manners and this was a very recent event and the American people might appreciate it (and of course many Americans regret sincerly Iraq so please don't paint them all with the same brush).

Maybe the Old Hen just prefers a week in Virginia to a week in Southend On Sea? The dollar's trading quite nicely at the mo, too which gives us tax payers 'cracking value for money'.

She just wants to get her jollies at the Kentucky Races, so she'll say whatever she has to.

And if the Yanks like her so much, why don't they keep her? They couldn't wait to get rid of her ancestor, George III

StarSparkle

...why go giving sympathy for matters which don't concern us or her.
I suppose it's what's expected. On the most fundamental level, she's the ultimate apolitical representative of the UK, particularly to many US citizens. To not express sympathy would seem a little strange in official diplomatic terms.

I wonder how much her flight cost her..

I wonder how much her flight cost her..

50p on Easy Jet I believe. She had to take her own sandwiches and a thermos though.

Ok - let's put it this way.
You go to your friends house to say, have dinner. You know that in the last week they have had tragic loss so it's only manners to give them your sympathy when you are there. If you don't then it's kinda like the 'elephant in the room' if it gets mentioned.

If I went to a friend's house I would give my sympathy, not that of everybody else.


(and of course many Americans regret sincerly Iraq so please don't paint them all with the same brush).

It's fine for people to tar all Iraqis, Iranians, Afghanis, or any one from the middle east with the same brush.

That there is my point. We're expected to sympathise with the Americans, yet sympathise with anyone else and you're told to go and live there if you love them that much.

If I went to a friend's house I would give my sympathy, not that of everybody else.

Ahh but the Queen is Head of State so she has the right to do that - her perogative - if you don't like it then you can move outside the Commonwealth.


It's fine for people to tar all Iraqis, Iranians, Afghanis, or any one from the middle east with the same brush.

That there is my point. We're expected to sympathise with the Americans, yet sympathise with anyone else and you're told to go and live there if you love them that much.

No it's not fine - but then that's not the issue really is it? In time when she goes the to middle east I'm sure memorials there will be visited - perhaps you should just give her some time.

If you don't like it then you can move outside the Commonwealth.
That old chestnut. I love my country, why should I leave. I'd prefer to stay here and help change it.



No it's not fine - but then that's not the issue really is it?

Of course it's the issue, the thread is Queen sucks up to America. Had it been Queen gives sympathy to Iraqis then I would have respected her more.

perhaps you should just give her some time.

The Monarchy has had more than enough time.

That old chestnut. I love my country, why should I leave. I'd prefer to stay here and help change it.
Perhaps the rest of us who support the Queen expressing their sympathy don't want it to change.


Of course it's the issue, the thread is Queen sucks up to America. Had it been Queen gives sympathy to Iraqis then I would have respected her more.

So what is she supposed to do - ignore it ever happened - again kind of bad manners isn't it?

Queen sucks up to American.....

This is the most ridicules post i've ever read, i don't even want to read the rest of them. :loopy: :loopy: :loopy:

Queen sucks up to American.....

This is the most ridicules post i've ever read, i don't even want to read the rest of them. :loopy: :loopy: :loopy:

LOL
Didnt stop you posting on it though did it :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ahh but the Queen is Head of State so she has the right to do that - her perogative - if you don't like it then you can move outside the Commonwealth.

.

Why should republicans have to move away from our own country?

The aristocracy are a race of people that have held Europ under its heel for milennia.
Most other countries have seen this and the natural born people have taken command of their own destinies.
They used to be all powerful, but as their gene pool has dried up they are no longer the race they were.
They are now weaker and less intelligent than the European proper.
The ordinary people of this continent are 'mongrels', this has made us stonger over the centuries.
The aristocrats have bred selectively between the same few families for countless generations.
We have two ways forward.
We either get rid of them now, before they degenerate further
or
We let them continue to interbreed until they become genetically incapable of further reproduction. By which time they will have dragged us down with them.

So what is she supposed to do - ignore it ever happened - again kind of bad manners isn't it?

Just keep herself quiet like a good little Monarch.

Just keep herself quiet like a good little Monarch.

So you are advocating bad manners then... doesn't surprise me.

So you are advocating bad manners then... doesn't surprise me.
That's a little harsh, isn't it? :suspect:

So you are advocating bad manners then... doesn't surprise me.

A Mod getting personal eh? To think you closed a thread earlier because people were getting personal.

Please explain how you know I have bad manners for being a republican and not wanting her to speak on my behalf, or anyone's behalf for that matter.

Can they not keep her there?!? Please :help:

I second that suggestion!!

Dozy

A Mod getting personal eh? To think you closed a thread earlier because people were getting personal.

You may have noticed that the Mod hat is off for this one - if you want to make it a Mod issue feel free to report any posts I make and I'm sure I'll be treated in the same way any other poster would be.


Please explain how you know I have bad manners for being a republican and not wanting her to speak on my behalf, or anyone's behalf for that matter.

If you read my previous post I said you were advocating bad manners by suggesting that the Queen should not express her sympathy for children that had died in a school shooting. This is a completely different to me saying you had bad manners.

It's called diplomacy... and it doesn't necessarily reflect the true feelings of an individual or a country. It's the international equivalent of asking "How do you do?" and not really caring what the reply is.

Still, I think it is quite possible, even normal, for the queen to feel true sympathy for the VT victims even though she never knew them and has no connection to the event. She is a human being, after all.

I second that suggestion!!

Dozy

I've already seconded it - you can third it if you like! ;)

StarSparkle

Can they not keep her there?!? Please :help:

Maybe we could work something out.... Which American might England be willing to take in exchange?! I've got a long list of possibilities!

So, Blair apologises recently for the slavery visited upon the Africans centuries ago, and the Queen apologises for the sins visited upon the "Native Americans" now.

What about the sins being visited upon the free "Native Africans" by the "Native American" Cherokees now?

TimesOnline (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1469750.ece)

Maybe we could work something out.... Which American might England be willing to take in exchange?! I've got a long list of possibilities!

They can have Hillary anytime :)

I tell what we could do - we could have a President for a few years (Say Bush) and we'll loan the Queen to you guys. Now I'm sure that world opinion of us Brits would plummet with a President Bush in charge (yes even more than with Blair in charge) and the USA will have a lovely time with a figurehead Queen.

Hmmm that could be the ultimate arguement against a republic (but then that's not the topic here is it ;)).

They can have Hillary anytime :)

And Mr. Hillary Rodham Clinton at no extra charge!

I tell what we could do - we could have a President for a few years (Say Bush) and we'll loan the Queen to you guys. Now I'm sure that world opinion of us Brits would plummet with a President Bush in charge (yes even more than with Blair in charge) and the USA will have a lovely time with a figurehead Queen.

Hmmm that could be the ultimate arguement against a republic (but then that's not the topic here is it ;)).


No, sorry... A democracy cannot have royalty, not even a figurehead. You see, everyone in America is equal. It's just that some people here are more equal than others.:rolleyes:

Was it not the yanks who attacked the Native Americans, and stole their land? Something similar to what they are doing in Iraq? So nothing new there, why the heck should the Queen have to apologise for that? The yanks seem to forget about there heritage, criminals, prostitutes and other low life deported from the UK. And I agree totally with Mod_Man, I don't want her speaking on my behalf either. It is Bush who should be apologising to us for the mess he has caused by his illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, and the lives lost of British Troops.

Was it not the yanks who attacked the Native Americans, and stole their land? Something similar to what they are doing in Iraq? So nothing new there, why the heck should the Queen have to apologise for that? The yanks seem to forget about there heritage, criminals, prostitutes and other low life deported from the UK. And I agree totally with Mod_Man, I don't want her speaking on my behalf either. It is Bush who should be apologising to us for the mess he has caused by his illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq, and the lives lost of British Troops.

Ahem, do we need to bring up the countless Hindus and Zulus who were massacred and exploited during Queen Victoria's empire-building period?

Ahem, do we need to bring up the countless Hindus and Zulus who were massacred and exploited during Queen Victoria's empire-building period?


Bring up anything you like :)

If you read my previous post I said you were advocating bad manners by suggesting that the Queen should not express her sympathy for children that had died in a school shooting. This is a completely different to me saying you had bad manners.

I did read your post and you said "So you are advocating bad manners then... doesn't surprise me.". Why does it not surprise you? That statement implies that you think I have bad manners. Had you read all my posts you would perhaps realise that I do not want the Queen speaking on my behalf. The Queen has given deepest sympathy on behalf of the UK. If she wants to give sympathy of her own then so be it but not in my name.

And does it mean too that whenever a Mod takes their Mod Hat off they can be insulting? Ultimately you will always have the power to ban me so I guess you can do as you please.

I totally agree with every word you've said Mod_Man. The Queen does seem to be sucking up to the yanks somewhat. How though, can she apologise to the Iraqi's who have died when her own grandson is now out now there shooting at them.

We all know the americans couldn't achieve anything without the help of us Brits and I suppose this is just to reinforce that message.

I heard about this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6618135.stm) the other day. I wonder if the Queen will be paying a visit to Iraq to pay tribute to the many thousands that have died due to the actions of her government and what about the citizens of Afghanistan, do they get the Queens sympathy too?
And I suppose the Mehdi Army and Al Qaeda in Iraq have killed precisely zero people :loopy:

Who's bothered about the old baked bean anyway and her problem family.

And I suppose the Mehdi Army and Al Qaeda in Iraq have killed precisely zero people :loopy:

That was their own war....why did we have to follow america in there and invade their country?...Abuse, kill and torture their people???????

For oil.:rolleyes:

Bring up anything you like :)

OK, i could never understand how the Irish Potato Famine could happen right on Britains door step, and thousands left to die.

I did read your post and you said "So you are advocating bad manners then... doesn't surprise me.". Why does it not surprise you? That statement implies that you think I have bad manners. Had you read all my posts you would perhaps realise that I do not want the Queen speaking on my behalf. The Queen has given deepest sympathy on behalf of the UK. If she wants to give sympathy of her own then so be it but not in my name.

And does it mean too that whenever a Mod takes their Mod Hat off they can be insulting? Ultimately you will always have the power to ban me so I guess you can do as you please.

If you have a problem with a mod decision like anyone you can take it to the helpdesk. That said, I'm not going to get any further into the conversation about modding - since on this thread I'm not a mod.

I'll do the decent thing and withdraw the comment, I shouldn't have made it personal and it was wrong of me - I apologise Mod_man.

OK, i could never understand how the Irish Potato Famine could happen right on Britains door step, and thousands left to die.

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: I thought you said you was not going to read anymore of this thread :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Apparently the same way that thousands in New Orleans are still homeless after Katrina, and how people are still left to suffer and die after 9/11 with the harmless dust that they inhaled.

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: I thought you said you was not going to read anymore of this thread :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Apparently the same way that thousands in New Orleans are still homeless after Katrina, and how people are still left to suffer and die after 9/11 with the harmless dust that they inhaled.

Couldn't resist :hihi:

We all know the americans couldn't achieve anything without the help of us Brits.

As summed up so brilliantly by Al Murray in his 'Giving it both barrels' stand-up show. And I quote...

We, the British, are the current, reigning World War World Champions. The British Army hasn't lost a war for nearly a thousand years. Not since 1066.

Whereas the Americans have never won one on their own before. So they're obviously going to look to us for some coaching aren't they?.

That's right. The British Army hasn't been defeated since 1066. So you could argue that we are probably guilty of some pretty horrific massacres in our history as well. As has just about every other country on this planet (with the possible exception of Switzerland - you'll never win any battles using nothing but pen-knives!).

Anyway back on topic, Queenie should not speak on behalf of everyone, she has the right to convey her condolences to whoever, but being head of state does not give her the right to speak for all. If she wishes to lose favour with the british public, just as Blair has done by kissing ass, that is her perogative. ...... End Of

Couldn't resist :hihi:

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: Am I surprised :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

OK, i could never understand how the Irish Potato Famine could happen right on Britains door step, and thousands left to die.

It is a strange thing, but that awful interlude made the world a stronger place.
It encouraged Irish emigration to every country that is a sucess today.
Including England itself.
By the 'upper classes' in England, horrible disregard for their Irish brothers, they unwittingly made them stronger.
All the massively successful Irish companies and families around the world would not be there if it were not for English shortsightedness.

Bring up anything you like :)

Consider it brought up. The point is, many countries, England included, have done unspeakable things for money, power, religion, land, exploration and sheer agression that don't look clearly justifiable or admirable in 21st century hindsight.

Consider it brought up. The point is, many countries, England included, have done unspeakable things for money, power, religion, land, exploration and sheer agression that don't look clearly justifiable or admirable in 21st century hindsight.

Do I make any bones about it?

Consider it brought up. The point is, many countries, England included, have done unspeakable things for money, power, religion, land, exploration and sheer agression that don't look clearly justifiable or admirable in 21st century hindsight.

True... but does that mean someone can't express sympathy for something that happened?

: How people are still left to suffer and die after 9/11 with the harmless dust that they inhaled.

Lung transplants for all!


The WTC was hit by terrorists. The buildings fell. How can anyone but the terrorists be held responsible for the resulting dust?

Do I make any bones about it?

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

True... but does that mean someone can't express sympathy for something that happened?

I agree completely. We, as nations, can admit and regret that those things happened, even though we as individuals had nothing to do with it. I see nothing wrong with the queen expressing that.

Boy George is all England needs : another Queen who cant dress. :D

Lung transplants for all!


The WTC was hit by terrorists. The buildings fell. How can anyone but the terrorists be held responsible for the resulting dust?

**Off Topic** The WTC was hit by a conspiracy, was it terrorists who told the rescue services that the dust was safe to breathe? I think NOT

now that is END OF, no more off topic will be answered by me, sorry :)

**Off Topic** The WTC was hit by a conspiracy, was it terrorists who told the rescue services that the dust was safe to breathe? I think NOT

now that is END OF, no more off topic will be answered by me, sorry :)

Pooch we are just talking about you on the answer thread. Sorry Im off topic arent I ?

Only nice things being as I am so loveable I hope, are they? :)

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: POPPINS FOR QUEEN :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Only nice things being as I am so loveable I hope, are they? :)

Yes, we all love you, and you seem to be a mine of information about anything.

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: POPPINS FOR QUEEN :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

She will love this. :D

**Off Topic** The WTC was hit by a conspiracy, was it terrorists who told the rescue services that the dust was safe to breathe? I think NOT

now that is END OF, no more off topic will be answered by me, sorry :)


You're the one who took the thread off topic, Pooch1. It didn't matter if anyone said the air was safe to breathe... they were already breathing it! Who knew the towers were going to collapse? And as for a conspiracy theory? Pffft.

Yes, we all love you, and you seem to be a mine of information about anything.

Yeah, a land mine!:hihi: :hihi:

Yeah, a land mine!:hihi: :hihi:

And of course we all love you HappyHoosier, you are VERY intelligent.

And of course we all love you HappyHoosier, you are VERY intelligent.

Really? You're not taking the p***?:blush:

Aw, love scrum everybody! Group huggies!

This thread seems to have gone downhill. Closing it, if anyone needs to post again (for a decent reason!) the report my post and ask for it to be re-opened.