Sometimes it's impossible to get into it has it's full of prams.
When asked to move them so that a chair reliant person can use it some people get funny about it.
it clearly states wheelchairs under the window. Ok, if the bays not in need then thats fine if mums and dads use it.

Where would all the prams go then?

Providing they aren't the kind of people who have a 4x4, 3 wheel beast of a pram, couldn't they can put their kid on their lap and fold it up? I have no idea really... just a thought that came in to my head. Either that or complain to Supertram that they need more space to accommodate prams and wheelchairs.

I don't think Supertram's got any place's for closed prams.
I think young people like the roll on & off way better which at rush hour is not realy possible. People alone fill up the compartments.

I only travel on the tram off peak because it's a nightmare getting scooter space after 3pm.

Really a pram is a wheelchair. Both are used by people who cannot walk, therefore surely both have a right to use the space.

That's a silly comment, a wheelchair reliant person can't walk whilst a baby can be removed from a pram by their mum or dad and placed on their knee.

Okay Trekker - would you be happy and prepared for the sake of your argument to take two kids and one baby in a pushchair and shopping on a reasonable tram route whilst doing the things you suggest - packing up the pram and carrying it.

I am not saying at all that the people taking up the wheelchair space are in their ultimate right to do so. I used the wheelchair space with my daughters pram on a number of occasions, but stayed with the pram and moved it if a person in the wheelchair needed it. On two occasions people in wheelchairs have moved out of the space so I could use it for my pram?

The problem here isn't the prams or lack of facilities it is common courtesy that people are lacking.

I remember horridly my first trip on a bus on my own with my first child, trying to balance baby, folding pram and purse to pay for fare whilst everyone else looked at me like crap for holding the bus up. If they had got off their arses for one second to at least take the pram or something things would have gone a lot better. I took to walking after that rather than catch the bus or I just wouldn't go unless I had help.

Moon

whilst everyone else looked at me like crap for holding the bus up. If they had got off their arses for one second to at least take the pram or something things would have gone a lot better.

yes i agree, i bet most of the onlookers were crinklies going into town after 0930 with their 40 pence passes or free bus travel passes, these people are the worst always moaning :rant: going on about"this would'nt have happened in my day" moan moan moan, sometimes i also find it more peacefull and calming to walk,mainly because the bloody transport never turns up.

actually they weren't. What annoyed me even more was the fella stood next to the bus driver gassing away...he just stood there whilst I battled with everything didn't lift a finger to help. I ended up just dropping the pushchair on the floor whilst I kept my son and the fare secure....then kicked the pushchair to where I was sitting. Nothing much else I could do really.

I think he got the hint because I got help with the pushchair when we got to the bus station.

Moon

Originally posted by fridgeman
yes i agree, i bet most of the onlookers were crinklies going into town after 0930 with their 40 pence passes or free bus travel passes, these people are the worst always moaning :rant: going on about"this would'nt have happened in my day" moan moan moan, sometimes i also find it more peacefull and calming to walk,mainly because the bloody transport never turns up.

Well I suppose I'm what you describe as a 'crinkly', and when I used the buses I always offered to help mothers with their pushchairs if I was getting off or on at the same stop, sometimes even 'holding the baby' whilst the mother sorted the pushchair. Just a way of repaying all the kindness shown to my wife when she had small children. And I've seen lots of other men of my age group do the same (not women though, which is odd).

As for your beef about subsided fares for pensioners, it's doubtful if there would be any decent off-peak services at all if pensioners weren't given the incentive to use them.

Amazing really. In spite of the fact that too many people are supposed to be using their cars for commuting the trams are getting increasingly overcrowded at peak times.

Why is there apparently no limit to the number of standing passengers on supertram ? Sometime soon one of these packed trams is going to have to do an emergency stop and a lot of people are going to get hurt.

Moon Maiden, Ultamitly it's the responsibility of Stagecoach Supertram to provide storage or space's for prams to be left open.
Indeed, I think another low level section should be put on which would help noend. I agree that it's difficult people with kids having done the things you say when my two were small.
People nowa days mostly will not help anyone and are selfish! When it comes to the here and now, some people in wheelchairs have strong uper movement and so don't need the support of the bays handrails, whilst other's do.

I had 3 children under 5 and used to take them on the bus with the pushchair. I used to lean the folded pushchair against the bus stop. Hand the first child on, then the second on, then me with baby on hip and the small folding pushchair and have my fare ready. I'll admit that the pram went under the stairs of the bus and I was not expected to lift it waist high as is expected nowdays and seems impossible.
It once rollled off the bus as we went round by Midland Station and some kind soul fetched it back for me
Hazel

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Having kids and being a compulsive shopper is optional, Having a crippling illness is NOT?

++++++++++++++++++

Originally posted by Trekker
Having kids and being a compulsive shopper is optional, Having a crippling illness is NOT?

Hear, hear - sometimes Doris has to push me on it! And sometimes I push her depending on whos feeling the laziest. Young people with prams should be made to walk to Meadowhall, then they might think twice about dropping more sprogs!!

I don't honestly think that many disabled people think they are 'special' just would like a bit of help and consideration every now and again like the rest of us...particuarly mums with not enough hands trying to get on a bus ;)

I have found Sheffield to be a really nice place it is amazing what a lack of seats on public transport will do to that niceness isn't it?

Moon

Originally posted by franc1987
u no what im sick of? wheel chair users thinking there special!! so u might be a bit disadvantaged but your always harping on about not being prejudice towards you and then when we arent u moan that we take up your "special" place on the tram! so were not allowed to treat u as a special case until you say so? some people you just cant please. On the tram the doors only open at one side (apart from at netherthorpe) so if the wheel chair bay is full dont moan just go in the doors on the side that dont open! simple. U try holding twins and a three yr old (not mine) on a tram whilst trying to find a seat with your weekly shopping and a double buggy (like moon maiden said) a changing bag, toys so people dont moan about noisy kids in cafes blankets cos its getting cold your own handbag the rain cover for the pram and whatever other crap u have piled up and then youll no how offensive your post is to parents out there. Your not the only ppl in the world. I no it might be hard but mothers r in the same boat really. When the firefighter games were on i saw an oriental family actually sit with there feet up on the chairs and the buggy parked inbetween the seats! so in answer to that buggies dont fit in a bay with ppl!

im sorry if this post is offensive but sometimes the truth needs to be said!!

I have done the "ten-bag tango", whilst trying to fold a pram, and close a pushchair, myself, enough times in the past..

but, however, the fact remains that it is far easier for a pram to be folded and placed in the luggage rack, than a wheelchair.

The wheelchair bay, on the supertram, is designated for wheelchairs, hence the placement of a massive orange "wheelchair" pictogram, on the wall panel beneath the window, indicating to all who have working sight, (and, hopefully brains) that the area is for disabled persons in wheelchairs.

(of course, franc, if you can explain to me precisely how my chair could fit in the area that has seating in it, in the same way an ordinary pushchair/ buggy can do. I'd be glad to take your advice, and happily leave the wheelchair area for the pushchairs.....)

A pushchair will easily go up the couple of steps into the higher parts of the tram, and will actually fit (unless it's one of those doubleseater, scaffolding pole-wallah sized things with the huge 4x4 style off-road tyres) in the space between the seats that face each other.

Not everyone who uses a chair has that necessary upper-body strength, that an earlier poster mentioned. if someone is born with, say, spina bifida, physio is done, in order that they build up an athletic/ strong upper-body to be able to self-propel in amanual chair.

or, perhaps someone who has acquired a spinal injury that is low enough not to involve the arms, and arm-control... they also are encouraged to strengthen their upper bodies, in the same way.

Some conditions such as MS, or ME,unfortunately do not allow for this strengthening. The person will often not have the stamina or the strength to self-propel.

Indeed, my usual chair will not fold, as it is a powered chair. (i have weakness in my upper body and cannot self-propel unfortunately)

Buses, such as the ones operated by "First" have an advertising card above most wheelchair bays on their buses, confirming that Buggies have priority over the passengers occupying the seats in the buggy/ chair bays, and that a wheelchair user has priority over the buggies. (for the reasons of ease of folding, as I mentioned above) it states that "UP TO TWO UNFOLDED BUGGIES CAN BE CARRIED" but it also states that buggy owners/handlers should be prepared to fold their buggies if a wheelchair needs to occupy the wheelchair space.

Maybe it would be a good idea to have a similar policy on the tram? that the tram can only carry "X" number of chairs ofr buggies?

We had a bit of a dilemma the other day, when attempting to board a tram in sheffield. I was with my sister, who was pushing my nephew in his chair (he is dependent on a chair, too).

We did not have time to get to the opposite end of the tram, so had to board at the end of the tram we were stood at.

The problem was, a woman in a wheelchair was already occupying most of the space there. (she could have turned sideways and allowed another chair in, beside her, but that's a whole other gripe)

So, I, in my chair, and my nephew in his chair, both had to cram into the space by the door, and I was most uncomfortable that we were obstructing the doors etc.

We did not want to wait, however long it was going to be for the next tram, as the weather was dreadful, and my nephew is unable to speak much, and let us know that he is cold/ hurting. we did not want to stand in the cold and risk him being chilled.

PT

Maybe 'First Mainline' should just change their labels to say "Wheelchair AND Pram users only".

Twenty years ago it was practically impossible for wheelchair users to go anywhere without (a) somebody pushing them, or (b) extraordinary upper-body strength.

These days they have almost as much access to places as everyone else, and yet still they're whinging.

A time machine with a ramp is what we need. Show the moaning buggers how lucky they are these days.

I'm all for equal rights, but let's say the endless griping gets a few more seats ripped out of supertrams... Those seats are guaranteed to be used far more frequently than another wheelchair bay would be.

I'm sorry for the condition in which some people live their lives, but how far are the rest of us expected to bend over backwards...

It's not our fault.

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Smedley U Smeghead Why don't U go back into whichever hole U crept out of?

Originally posted by franc1987
im not a mother and i dont intend on being for a long time yet. i am simply speaking from the view of a family friend who i have been with numerous times and i simply do not know how she manages.



before this certain friend had her twins she had a simple umberrella buggy- u no the dead simple tiny buggys- they do them in bright pink im sure uv seen them. And that wudnt go in the seats without being a complete eyesore and blocking all the isle.

plain talker im not saying ppl with wheel chairs should be expected to attempt the stairs on the tram but in the same respect is it fair for mums to do it too? until youve tried to juggle twins and a 2 yr old on the tram with shopping that IS compulsive please dont judge.

I understand that for some mums with just the one toddler could be considerate and put their selves out a little for the sake of somebody that doesnt have the choice and in that view i do agree with you that.

Maybe wheelchair users should get priority over prams after all you havent chosen your disability but mums have chosen to have kids. But theres always gonna be a lack of spaces on trams and public transport for disabled and babies so maybe we just have to live with it.

I think wheelchairs should get priority over prams but i also think that mums should get a little consideration too. If you put the wheelchair in the bay with the back facing the window and u facing the other window than there is room for another chair or pram.

oh and by the way my pram isnt a four by four its a compact double buggy- the smallest- that i no of out there.


I was not always a wheelchair user...

Franc, you obviously didn't read my post, where I explained that I was a 25-years ago-plus, well-versed veteran of the "ten-bag tango"- managing a wriggling toddler, shopping, AND folding up a pushchair that needed six hands to fold it...

I did this in the days when the only way to get on buses with a pushchair was to fold the thing... remember "folding" pushchairs? It's an interesting concept!

My mother, forty years ago, used to walk miles and miles around sheffield, with myself and my sister pushing one of those huge, Silver-Cross "Boat-prams". My sister would be in the pram, and I would be sat on a toddler-seat thing that attached to the pram between the handle.

We'd go to visit my uncle at hackenthorpe, at least twice a week.

She'd walk, with the pram, after lugging it down four floors, from the top-floor maisonette we lived in,(with no lifts!) at the back of the John O' Gaunt pub, on Gleadless Valley, up to the water tower at Norton, and along Norton Avenue/ Ridgeway Road, at Townend.

She'd then go down White Lane, to "The Old Harrow" pub, and along Fox Lane, through Frecheville, and on to Birley Moor Road, then through the Hackenthorpe estate to my uncle's house.

Now, how on earth my mother managed THAT is beyond me!

NEXT:-

Re the comment on the wheelchair being turned to face out in to the aisle;

speaking as someone who is on committees for access, and transport...

The recommended way to be positioned, for optimum "health and safety" is for the wheelchair user to be seated in the wheelchair space, with their back to the direction of travel, so that the person is less likely to be thrown from their chair if the tram has to brake suddenly. (the same way as the wheelchair space is laid out on the accessible buses).

Facing out into the aisle would cause the chair to be tipped over sideways, in the event of the tram havintg to brake hard. This would be a considerable danger to the chair-user and to any other passengers who might be in the vicinity.

PT

Originally posted by Trekker
Smedly U Smeghead Why don't U go back into whichever hole U crept out of?

Where you having an epileptic fit when you typed this, or DO U LIV IN DA TXT MSG WRLD NOW?

Originally posted by smedley
Where you having an epileptic fit when you typed this, or DO U LIV IN DA TXT MSG WRLD NOW?

I'm lucky, I only have Multiple Sclerosis BAD!

Unless you have a disability such as this I suggest you Don't call people who Do, Moaners!

Originally posted by Trekker
Unless you have a disability such as this I suggest you Don't call people who Do, Moaners!

Whilst I think anyone born with any form of disability is unlucky, you've got to admit that society has come on in leaps and bounds compared to what it used to be like.

I don't like people who moan, full stop. Not just people in wheelchairs.

Smedley gives everone something to moan about.

ouch!! come you guys kiss and make up,we're missing the point here.

Originally posted by ted97
Hear, hear - sometimes Doris has to push me on it! And sometimes I push her depending on whos feeling the laziest. Young people with prams should be made to walk to Meadowhall, then they might think twice about dropping more sprogs!!

Jesus wept..sometimes I am amazed at how some of you manage to get out of bed in the morning with that level of intelligence.

Originally posted by smedley
Whilst I think anyone born with any form of disability is unlucky, you've got to admit that society has come on in leaps and bounds compared to what it used to be like.

I don't like people who moan, full stop. Not just people in wheelchairs.

...compared to what it used to be like - when ?

It seems you just don't like people full stop, but I'm never sure whether it's you or the other thing in your avatar that's talking, ...that's if there's a difference.

I used to use the bus all the time, and women with prams used to attempt to get on the bus at rush hour, and it caused a lot of problems, especially when they had massive prams for a tiny baby, blocking the aisle.
The drivers sometimes let more than two prams on the bus, when there was clearly no room for them and they fill the aisles and people cannot get on/off the bus. One woman once shouted that the bus driver was racist because he wouldn't let her on with a pram when there were already too many prams on.
I am sympathetic towards new parents, but I would not want to take my young children on a bus when I eventually have children.
I was once sworn at by a mother with a pram because i would not let her off the bus first even though she was behind me. I needed to walk quickly to get another bus, and it would take her longer to get off because of the pram.