I've got a labrador who is ten months old.

Before we got him I spent alot of time reading and researching the breed, and alot of people seem to advice that a labrador puppy should be fed wheat gluten free food to prevent food intolerences (which labs are prone to).

I found some fantastic food for my dog called Autarky, and he's done really well with it but sudddenly he's gone off it, and there's a full 15kg sack of it in the garage!

Anyway does anyone else give there dog a special diet? What are all your dogs tucking in to?

Dalmatians are notorious for needing special diets!

I now feed Takara 'James Wellbeloved' which is a little lower in protein (dalmatians need less protein as they are stone formers) but it is also hypoallergenic.

Takara loves it and due to the special ingredients it's supposed to agree with most dogs and is advised for many dogs with food intolerances.

You may want to give it a go. I stand by it and Takara loves it. If you do give it a go, I'm not sure what they advise with labs but you can generally stay on puppy/junior until they are 12-18 months of age but Takara started on adult last month, aged 10 months.

Teddy eats Wagg at the moment because that's what he was on before he came to us but due to his age (and the state of his poos!) we will be slowly transferring him to James Wellbeloved Senior to see how he gets on.

Good luck!

Dogs are so versatile.

You can feed them a vegetarian diet if you want, unlike cats- and they do fine. There are some really good recipes that you can mix up for dogs yourself on the Internet. They are healthier than commercial food with all of its fillers :-)

give them what you want.. if he doesn't like it. leave it, he can eat it or starve. in the end he'll soon accept the 15kg bag.

give them what you want.. if he doesn't like it. leave it, he can eat it or starve. in the end he'll soon accept the 15kg bag.

Actually this is true. A lot of pups go through a stage where they want something better. If you find that Autarky is good, leave him on it.

Put his food down and make clear that he's allowed it, then leave him with it for 15 minutes, if after 15 minutes he hasn't eaten it, take it up again and put it in the bag. Then feed him again at his next meal time. He'll go hungry but eventually he'll realise that if he doesn't eat, he doesn't get and he won't starve himself. He's seeing how long you can hold out.

Don't let him think that by leaving it he'll get something better and take it away after 15 minutes, if you had another dog and he left it, the other dog would eat it, and this is what would happen in a wolf pack so never leave the food down for him otherwise he'll just pick at it throughout the day and make training sessions and meal times a nightmare as he'll never get hungry!

Dalmatians are notorious for needing special diets!

I now feed Takara 'James Wellbeloved' which is a little lower in protein (dalmatians need less protein as they are stone formers) but it is also hypoallergenic.

Takara loves it and due to the special ingredients it's supposed to agree with most dogs and is advised for many dogs with food intolerances.

You may want to give it a go. I stand by it and Takara loves it. If you do give it a go, I'm not sure what they advise with labs but you can generally stay on puppy/junior until they are 12-18 months of age but Takara started on adult last month, aged 10 months.

Teddy eats Wagg at the moment because that's what he was on before he came to us but due to his age (and the state of his poos!) we will be slowly transferring him to James Wellbeloved Senior to see how he gets on.

Good luck!


Our dog started on James Wellbeloved, but we found out that the company that produce it use animal testing, so we don't use it anymore.

I was all for the "thats all your getting so you might as well eat it" approach, but Mr Scoop felt very sorry for him saying that walks and mealtimes are the highlight of his life so ought to enjoy what he's eating!

Hmm,

I was under the impression that James Wellbeloved was one of the few companies that don't use animal testing but I'm probably wrong! Thing is, as bad as it sounds, it's so good for Takara that I wouldn't take her off it now. You're generally hard pushed to find dog foods that don't use animal testing!

I really do think you ought to persevere with Mr Scoop, as he will enjoy it when he knows he's getting nothing else but otherwise you will have a load more problems in the long run. He'll just keep getting you to swap what you're feeding him and it'll make life a lot harder for you!

He does enjoy the food, he's just seeing if he'll enjoy what he gets next more.

my dog boss has fresh chicken and chumm mixes and the odd treat of beef

James Wellbeloved is definatly on BUAV's boycott list:

http://www.buav.org/campaigns/petfood/facts.html

If you look around you can easily find very good quality hypoallergenic dog food that's produced ethically.

We initially changed our dog onto CSJ:

http://www.csjk9.com/command/index.html

he looked fantastic on it: glossy coat, shiny nose - a picture of doggy health - but we changed him to Autarky because it was slightly cheaper, but reputed to be just as good (it's said to be the equivelant of Burn's dog food but half the price).

Needless to say I think he's going back onto the CSJ

Check out Royal Canin food, they have specialised food for specific breeds of dogs, plus, it is not expensive.

Keep well away from Iams though.

Will see what other people think - it looks pretty good and the price is pretty decent too!

It's just that Takara's been moved on and off of different foods that much (trying to find the right one for her) that I'm not sure if I ought to leave her on this for a while!

Where can you buy CSJ? We would be able to pick it up from a shop because I'm not organised enough to order it in time!

I think the nearest stockists are in Chesterfirld or Penistone (it tells you on the website).

I just order two 15kg sacks at a time (delivery cost is the same for two sacks as one - £6).

It usually comes three days after I order it.

If you want to try some I think they will send samples out. If not you can try a bit of The Chocador's!

thanks Scoop!

I may have a look but the problem we have is a lack of space for two 15kg bags! And, as I said I'm not organised enough to order it in time! (That's just me all over)

May look into it though...

If you want to know more about Royal Canin, they have their own website.

Everything you need to know is at http://www.royalcanin.co.uk/

I hope you find this useful.

give them what you want.. if he doesn't like it. leave it, he can eat it or starve. in the end he'll soon accept the 15kg bag.

On the whole I agree. My current dog likes to have a laugh. Most times I feed her she sniffs it, looks away in disgust and trots back to her basket. I leave her alone for half an hour, come back and it's been gobbled! I assume it's her who's done the gobbling, so to speak.

My sadly departed faithful friend was a tad fussy when he was young, so I tried various brands. I remember there was a dry dog food that he simply refused to eat. I even tried adding gravy, but he wouldn't have it, he’d lick the gravy off and leave the rest. After two or three days of that I gave up – there’s a limit to the amount of time you can watch your dog starve, particularly when he’s young and still growing.

There's a lesson there, don't buy a large sack of food to test on your dog! I eventually settled with one of the BETA dry dog foods by the way. He grew up to be a fine specimen of the breed, so I’d recommend that.

My dog "Tia" is on James Wellbeloved - she loves it. Certainly seen a vast improvement in the condition of her coat and she has calmed down loads. Her previous owner fed her on cheap tinned and she was bouncing off the walls and had the runs most of the time!!

x

chavs :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

I often find that Snoop turns his nose up at food, sometimes i pretend to eat it and he gets jealous and has the food himself. or i just leave him for a few hours and he slowly eats it.

He really does like it, and i know he does, and his coat is beautiful, i believe the food is called lucky dog or something :D

The ends of my fingers if i'm not quick enough

Brude was a pain when he was new. He was far too traumatised at being wrenched from his pack to contemplate eating :roll:

The problem with a 10 week old pup not eating, is that he won't last very long, and the breeder changed her advice from the 'let him learn there's nothing more interesting' to 'feed him scrambled egg or tuna' rather quickly when our fiend continued to resist :suspect:

He was sold to us with a bag of Pedigree Advanced, which he never really ate ever again (although we did mix it with other dried stuff to get it down him). He couldn't eat anything chicken - which ruled out most puppy food. Lamb flavoured anything was spat out in a projectile fashion. Hills, Eukanuba and Pedigree Complete all hit the reject pile.

He now has Bakers Complete, though he used to spit the 'peas' out, which was cured by soaking the biscuits in warm water first :D

He still goes crackers every time we open a tin of tuna though :roll:

If i still had my dog i'd feed hm the kids on my road, I'm sick to the back teeth of them and the holidays haven't started yet.

I feed our dog on straw and carrots.
Never done her any harm LOOK. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/viking99/cloning6.jpg)

My staff is a very fussy eater so i have to pretend to eat it for him to have sum but if he that way out dunt have it. when he does eat he as liver kidney stewmeat and chum mixer:hihi: :hihi:

Hi.

After doing an advance search in pet forum under 'food' I couldnt find anything recent so I thought it would be ok to start one up.

I use mainly dry as I think it is much better for their teeth, I give 2 medium meals a day and every other day I give 1 meal of meat (just for variety).

I use Bakers complete dry and bakers meat.

What do you use and do you give 1 or 2 meals? :)

Cripes - a poll too :?

lets see if this will stand a merge or if the forum software will lose the poll along the way :shocked:

cross your fingers Tatty ;)

Edit: *breathes sigh of relief*
threads successfully merged :thumbsup:

ooh this has come back around!

Well I shall let you know I have now voted Burns..
Takara got a rash after her season that dalmatians are prone to during hormone changes, I put her on a food that was brilliant and sorted her coat out straight away, unfortunately it was high in protein and dalmatians shouldn't have too much protein so for the health of the dog, and for my own mental health, I lowered the protein levels and began feeding Burns!

I haven't looked back!

They now have Burns twice a day and a dollop of bio yoghurt once a day.
They regularly get bones (Eddy's not fussed but T loves them and they're brilliant for their teeth), raw meat and veggies on a regular basis.

NB - If you're thinking about feeding bones, raw meat or veggies please look it up online to see what's safe for your dog!! There are certain veggies and meat that are highly toxic to dogs.

Hi.

After doing an advance search in pet forum under 'food' I couldnt find anything recent so I thought it would be ok to start one up.

I use mainly dry as I think it is much better for their teeth, I give 2 medium meals a day and every other day I give 1 meal of meat (just for variety).

I use Bakers complete dry and bakers meat.

What do you use and do you give 1 or 2 meals? :)

Tatty - ditch the tinned meat, seriously, if you're giving it for variety, mix some raw mince or sardines, gravy, tuna, whatever into their biscuits.
The tinned meat is full of nastiness and you'll probably find it much cheaper just to grab some raw mince and keep it in the freezer to add a bit to their meals each time!
Failing that, there's all sorts you can give them, I don't know if your dogs are the type to have something down in one - if they are then raw chicken legs/wings aren't good - but if you can get them to chew them (hold it for them the first few times they have them so they can't just swallow!), then they'll love one of them on occassion, liver - get a 75p tub of it and keep it in the freezer, or bio yoghurt (which is excellent for their tummies, in general that is!), pulped veggies, any veggies or fruit (check it's not toxic) that's going a bit soft (they don't care if it's on its way out!), meat that's past its best before date but still looks and smells ok..

The list is endless!

Barf,Green tripe, whole uncooked chicken.

we used to feed our hounds autarky but they too got bored so we now feed burgess superdog sensitive, they still woof it up even after 2 years its gluten free etc and sorry to be so explicit but it makes their poos lovely and firm so easy to pick up-esential when you have 7- we add nature diet to make it a bit tasty. oh and we feed 2x a day. anna.x.

I have started Maisey on a complete mix softened with warm water or dog meat (which bares a strange resemblance to Spam). She is favouring Pedigree over Bakers.

We had terrible trouble getting Brude to eat anything at all as a pup :(

He eventually managed to settle for Bakers complete (much to my irritation, as I have been a contractor for Pedigree and our previous dogs were fed Pedigree products). His favourite flavour is Rabbit and Duck - which not every manufacturer does. Changing flavours always gives him horrid wind for about a week! :gag:

I'm currently considering emailing lots of companies for samples to see if he'll eat something more ethical/natural, but the last batch of bakers was on offer and we've got a cupboard full now :roll:

I do think we should be thinking about a food or supplement that may help delay the onset of the arthritis we're expecting in his spine ultimately

Anybody got any suggestions?

PS - we feed him 1/3 of his food for breakfast and the rest for dinner. He ws supposed to be cut back to one meal a day, but he was sick (possibly with stress) every morning we tried that

When we had our two terriers they were on wet chappie for dinner and had shapes biscuits for breakfast - even after the Jack Russell had all his teeth out and we had to smash them with a hammer for him :D

we used to feed our hounds autarky but they too got bored so we now feed burgess superdog sensitive, they still woof it up even after 2 years its gluten free etc and sorry to be so explicit but it makes their poos lovely and firm so easy to pick up-esential when you have 7- we add nature diet to make it a bit tasty. oh and we feed 2x a day. anna.x.

What a coincidence, we've eventually settled the Chocador on Burgess Supadog Sensative. He's happy with it and I know what you mean about the poo, too!;)

We use Nutro for ours. We do free feed which a lot of people don't like to do but it works for us.

Since being on Nutro there have been less wind problems in the house! Plus poop scooping is much easier. :)

Burns complete (venison and brown rice or Duck and rice) and Nature Diet or Nature's Menu wet food - the only combination the dobermutt can tolerate- she's tried a lot of other stuff over the years and had a dicky tummy/allergies, poohed for england, or gone hyper (Iams).

Burns and the Nature Diet/Menu are hypoallergenic/organic and highly recommended.

Altho its a complete, she won't just eat the Burns alone, hence we reduce the serving and mix it with the Nature Diet or Nature's Menu. She poohs much smaller stools with this combi and it doesnt stink as much as it did when we used other foods. Plus, she has a strong glossy black coat and no more allergies.

Other foods we tried in the past- Nutro, Pero, Wafcol, James Wellbeloved, Hill's Science Diet, Eukaneuba,Iams, Bakers complete.
Had a go at Barf, but we werent serious enough about it and life is too short to be faffing about with vegetables and meat at the crack of dawn before we go to work..Ocasionally tho, the dobermutt does get to eat raw bones and the cats have a raw chicken wing or drumstick (AIlsa doesnt do raw chicken) - but only under our supervision. She has a few naughty treats too - the occasional battered sausage or bit of fish without the batter if we get fish n chips (the cats ahave their own fish- the other half is a big softie) - and she loves pig'e ears.
The Burns is about £37 inc postage for a 15KG sack from Burns direct and at last count, each foil pack or tray of Nature's Menu and Nature Diet were about 65-70p from places like Pets at Home/ Jolleys. Sounds expensive but I'd rather have a healthy doggie and it is good solid meat, not wet sloppy gravy and sugar like a lot of wet foods.
Burns are great- delivery is free, they often give you vouchers off your next pruchase- they are fast and reliable - you can buy from pet stores that stock Burns too.

http://www.shop.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/
http://www.naturediet.net/index.html
http://www.naturesmenu.co.uk/

Strix, you could try a liquid version of glucosamine with chrondoitin on his food.

Eddy had arthritis coming on in his back legs when we got him and we put him straight onto glucosamine and chrondoitin - the glucosamine for the here and now, the chrondoitin for long term effects (I don't know what it does exactly but is supposed to help prevent serious arthritis/joint problems in the future - my mother understands it all, I just go along with it).
That, along with a massive change of diet (ie. no more takeaways for old Eddy!!) due to the weight he was carrying on those poor, achy legs and a magnetic collar and well, you've seen him move!!

The only problem we found was, when his legs got better he was harder to catch when he did a runner!!

:hihi: you've worked wonders with that dog Lotti :thumbsup:

Thanks for the advice :)

for supplements we give ours a joint supplement from healthy direct and also green lipped mussels supplement. anna.x.

Sos but Kibble is the biscuit of death

based on what evidence Steve?

This is the pets group - we prefer sensible discussion to hit and run posting so we remove posts that don't contribute to the discussion in line with forum rules :thumbsup:

I feed my lot once a day it used to be twice but they were never really interested in it in the morning.
Mine also have dried food, greyhound complete (not sure of the make) i add water to it as i worry about them eating dry food :rolleyes: .
I have used the same food for years and seems to be fine, i make food more interesting for them by adding sardines, sometimes a small tin of chappie ( i make that last 2 days between 3 dogs) or sometimes left overs, my lot also love raw veg and usually get a share when i feed the rabbits and piggies.

based on what evidence Steve?

This is the pets group - we prefer sensible discussion to hit and run posting so we remove posts that don't contribute to the discussion in line with forum rules :thumbsup:

This is a serious point Strix and imo a point that owners should be checking out for themselves

Kibble is full off toxic residues of factory-farmed, antibiotic-fed, hormone-laced cows and chickens and sheep, mixed with spoiled grains and some rancid oil. Many are also feeding their pets preservatives and sweeteners. Meat and other carp not fit for humans.

If it's not good enough for me to eat then I dont give it my pets BARF is the best and natural way to feed dogs
http://www.landywoods.co.uk/ is where I buy my food in bulk the site also has a little info on BARF DIET for pets

That's why I asked for further info Steve, so thanks for taking the time to add the info and links :)

I know I will probably get told off :blush:

My dog who is 12 now has survived all this time in excellent health on Whiskers cat food.

What can I say. We have tried her with dog food, but she much prefers pinching the cats food from their bowls. The vet said it is wrong for her, but she is well and healthy.

Steve,

I tried feeding Takara BARF and it made her seriously malnourished. So please take these things into account when you post such comments.

BARF suits many dogs but it also doesn't suit many others. I carefully calculated it, and read up on it, but couldn't get Takara to eat certain parts of the BARF diet so she ended up malnourished (not particularly underweight - but malnourished)

Burns is based on a natural diet (as I believe many others are) and is actually produced by a vet who had the same concerns as you and I regarding kibble.

By the 'biscuit of death' do you refer to how it's produced or what it does to the dog? As I know plenty of people with incredibly healthy dogs who are fed on what I could only call utter rubbish!
Eddy who is now 12 and is often mistaken for a puppy was fed on Wagg biscuits for 11 years before we got him, he was only moved over to Burns because of his wind and because I feed Takara on it.

Nutro sensitive, or if I can't find that, the only other sensitive that is suitable for our Angel is James wellbeloved ocean fish.

I agree with Lotti 100% on feeding.



BARF imo is a fad and if anything a WOLVES diet not a dogs. We feed a high quality kibble and always will. after 14yrs of good results why change ? I tested out BARF on my dogs for 3 months,The results were slighlty duller coat, higher prey drive , which to me is useless since im anti hunt and took up so much time and effort preparing and storing etc..

As for landywoods barf type meats, theyre really not fit for humans it says that on the packet so i wouldnt feed it to my dogs,

a WOLVES diet not a dogs.

May I draw attention to this point as I feel it important - domestic dogs are so far removed from wolves that we really have little reason to treat them as their ancestors.

This goes for training as well as feeding. Yes, they do have basic instincts inherited from wolves, and they are closely related (obviously) but they are not wolves.

It's like saying humans should start haunching on their legs and sucking on eucalyptus plants, spending their spare time picking lice out their partner's hair and eating them.

Just because we're primates we don't expect to be treated as chimps and likewise dogs are not wolves.

If your dog is happy and healthy on BARF great, if your dog is happy and healthy on kibble - great. Obviously there are certain types of kibble and meat that are better than others but comparing kibble to BARF is pointless in my opinion.

I agree with Lotti 100% on feeding.



BARF imo is a fad and if anything a WOLVES diet not a dogs. We feed a high quality kibble and always will. after 14yrs of good results why change ? I tested out BARF on my dogs for 3 months,The results were slighlty duller coat, higher prey drive , which to me is useless since im anti hunt and took up so much time and effort preparing and storing etc..

As for landywoods barf type meats, theyre really not fit for humans it says that on the packet so i wouldnt feed it to my dogs,



http://www.peta.org/feat-iams.asp

With calls coming in to our office from people stating that their
animals died after eating dry foods that have not yet been recalled,
http://www.peta.org/feat-iams_page2.asp
PETA confirmed with the FDA that it was also receiving such
complaints. When the FDA refused to confirm dry-food complaints to the
media, PETA called a news conference
http://www.peta.org/mc/NewsItem.asp?id=9670
to demand an emergency expansion of the pet-food recall to include
all dry food subject to complaints. PETA is also calling for criminal
http://blog.peta.org/archives/Letter%20to%20%20Ohio%20Prosecutor%20March%2021%20 2007%20FINAL.pdf
investigations into Iams, Menu Foods, and other companies to
determine if there were delays that may have caused more suffering and
deaths of animals.

For more information on what to do if your animal companion has become
sick, click here.
http://www.peta.org/feat-iams-sick.asp
For more information about the recall and what you can do, click
here. http://www.peta.org/feat-iams_page2.asp

Latest Updates

FDA and Food Manufacturers Fail at Every Level

-April 3, 2007: Damning News From Menu Foods; FDA May Be Wrong About
Cause of Pet Deaths
Yesterday, the dean of the Cornell University College of Veterinary
Medicine confirmed that Menu Foods had contacted the college in early
March, when cats in Menu labs stopped eating their food. Almost a full
week later, the company sent tissue and urine samples from sick
animals to Cornell, acknowledging that the food was toxic. Nearly two
more weeks passed before Menu issued a recall.

Although the FDA continues to blame tainted wheat gluten for recent
cat and dog illnesses and deaths, a mounting number of complaints
about sick and dying animals who ate only dry food that did not
contain wheat gluten strongly suggests that there is another source of
contamination. Evidence from reputable laboratories indicates that an
excessive amount of vitamin D in pet food may be to blame. Vitamin D
overdoses produce symptoms similar to those seen in animals who
recently got sick or died after consuming only dry foods. PETA is
demanding that the FDA refocus its investigation to include other
likely causes instead of pandering to the pet food industry and
focusing on an ingredient that is found in only a moderate number of
foods.


+April 2, 2007; 10 a.m.: PETA Calls on FDA Head to Resign
PETA President Ingrid Newkirk has called for the commissioner of the
U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to step down from his post
after revelations that the FDA refused to name the maker of a dry pet
food believed to have received the suspected contaminated ingredient.
Now, two independent laboratories are claiming that the FDA was wrong
when it determined that the agent causing kidney failure in cats and
dogs was wheat gluten contaminated with a chemical called melamine
found in plastic. The FDA has yet to recall brands of dry food that
are reportedly killing dogs and cats. The FDA has deceived the public
and media, both about the nature of the recall and about the FDA's
oversight of the pet-food industry. Dr. Stephen Sundlof, director of
the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine, has claimed to the media,
"There are really no differences in the regulation of animal food and
the regulation of human food. The same people that inspect human food
plants also inspect pet food plants." However, the FDA's own Web site
verifies that the agency has left "regulation" of the pet-food
industry to the Association of American Feed Control Officials
(AAFCO), a nongovernmental body with no power.

Read PETA's letter to the FDA here.


+March 31, 2007: More Pet Food Recalled, Including the First Dry Food
Purina issued a recall of Alpo Prime Cuts-in-Gravy wet dog food. In
addition, Hill's Pet Nutrition issued a recall of its Prescription
Diet m/d Feline dry food yesterday, admitting that it contained wheat
gluten from the same company that provided the ingredient to Menu
Foods earlier this year. This is the first of what may prove to be
many dry food recalls. FDA tests of wheat gluten samples from this
time period have proved that the ingredient contained poison, which
has caused an unknown number of animals to become ill and die, and
PETA has received a number of reports of animals who have become ill
or died after eating dry food, yet the FDA has so far refused to
expand the pet food recall to include these products. For more
information on what you can do if your companion is sick, click here.

Click here to watch PETA's news conference calling for an expanded
recall.


+March 30, 2007, 12 noon: PETA Holds Emergency News Conference; FDA
and Food Manufacturers Wring Their Hands, Take No Action While
Cherished Pets Continue to Fall Ill and Die
Confronted with more evidence indicating that dry food is making
animals sick, PETA held an emergency news conference to demand that
the FDA and pet food companies issue a dry food recall and to call for
a criminal investigation into pet food companies. The FDA says that it
has received more than 8,000 complaints, and Menu Foods has received
more than 300,000.

Although the FDA has the mandate to request a recall of pet food, the
agency continues to refuse to do so and is still uncertain about what
is causing pets to become ill and die. In a news conference today,
federal officials confirmed that at least one shipment of the same
poisoned wheat gluten that may have been responsible for dog and cat
deaths across the country was shipped to a dry-food manufacturer.
Despite this knowledge, the FDA and pet-food manufacturers have failed
to issue a precautionary recall of dry pet food and won't disclose
which dry-food manufacturer received the tainted shipment. PETA is
urging all companion-animal guardians who suspect that their animals
may have been sickened by tainted food to immediately report this to
the FDA. Click here for more information on what you should do if you
suspect that your animal companion is ill. Please also be sure to tell
Iams and Menu Foods that you won't buy while animals die.


+March 28-29, 2007: PETA Pushes FDA to Act on Dry Food Complaints
In response to a growing number of complaints about dry food, PETA
contacted FDA Ombudsman Dr. Marcia Larkins, who confirmed that the FDA
has been receiving complaints about dry food. The FDA has refused to
confirm dry food complaints to the media, at which point PETA sent a
news release to force the FDA to let consumers know about concerns
related to dry food.


+March 27, 2007: Members of Congress Demand Answers From FDA
Sen. Richard Durbin (D-Ill.) and Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.) wrote to
the FDA, saying that it is "very disconcerting" that pet-food
manufacturing facilities are not being inspected.


+March 26, 2007, 4 p.m.: Contact Menu Foods to Demand Reimbursement of
Veterinary Bills; Find Cruelty-Free Foods for Your Animal Companion
Media reports indicate that Menu Foods and some of its brands,
including Iams and Eukanuba, plan to reimburse customers for
veterinary bills resulting from their animals' ingesting tainted food.
If you believe that your animal companion is ill because of
contaminated food, you may contact Menu Foods at 1-866-895-2708. Also,
be sure to check out PETA's list of cruelty-free companion animal
foods here.


+March 23, 2007, 2 p.m.: Is Iams' Dry Food Also Contaminated?
PETA has received queries from concerned dog and cat guardians who are
worried that animals might fall ill after eating dry food, and as a
result, PETA is demanding that Iams and Menu Foods also recall dry
food products until they are chemically tested-and cleared-for safety.
We have also sent an urgent letter to the director of the Food and
Drug Administration's Center for Veterinary Medicine urging him to
investigate Iams and other companies that sell food supplied by Menu
Foods and take appropriate actions if the companies knew-yet
withheld-information about pet-food contamination.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) demands answers.


+The Early Days of the Recall: Delays and Inaction While Animals Die
February 20, 2007: According to the FDA, this is the date when Menu
Foods knew that its products were likely making animals sick and/or
killing them.

February 27, 2007: Menu Foods initiated a laboratory feeding
experiment on 40 to 50 cats and dogs despite allegedly knowing that
the food may be contaminated. One in six of these animals died during
the experiment.

March 12, 2007: Around this time, Menu Foods acknowledged that the
food was toxic and sent tissue and urine samples from affected animals
to a Cornell University lab.

March 16, 2007: More than two weeks after learning that its food was
probably killing dogs and cats, Menu Foods finally announced a recall
of 60 million dog and cat food products. The news release was sent out
on a Friday, the day companies traditionally release news that they
hope will get as little notice as possible. The FDA did not request
this recall.

March 22, 2007: Menu Foods' CEO told a reporter, "All the tests that
we have done to date have indicated that there is nothing wrong with
the product." (This was more than three weeks after a test that killed
one in six of the animals who had been fed contaminated food.)




Iams has a history of causing animal suffering. During a 2002 to 2003
undercover investigation of an animal-testing laboratory doing
contract work for Iams, a PETA investigator documented terrified
animals confined to cramped, dirty cages in dilapidated rooms; dogs
who had chunks of muscle cut from their thighs, and other forms of
cruelty.







In the wake of a massive recall of contaminated and deadly dog and cat
food, Menu Foods and Iams are under fire for their cruel and
unnecessary laboratory tests on animals. PETA is calling on law
enforcement authorities to investigate whether cruelty-to-animals
charges should be filed against the companies for alleged failure to
warn consumers about the tainted food as soon as they had the
information and-just as disturbingly-apparently feeding the tainted
food to cats and dogs in order to test it.

Menu Foods reportedly knew of this potentially deadly food as early as
February 20, 2007. When reports surfaced that its dog and cat food
might have caused severe illness in customers' animal companions, the
company quietly conducted lethal toxicity tests to confirm the
contamination. Dogs and cats were forced to ingest toxic and lethal
food in Menu's laboratory before the company announced the recall of
pet food from stores nationwide nearly one month after the initial
illnesses were reported. During this critical time, countless animal
companions may have been at risk of getting sick, and many may have
died.

In addition to the appalling failure to disclose information about the
contaminated food to its consumers, Menu Foods chose to test the food
by forcing healthy dogs and cats to ingest it-instead of using one of
the reliable, humane alternatives that are readily available,
including chemical analyses of the food, necropsies and tissue
analyses of the already deceased animal victims, and non-animal test
methods, such as the functional gastro-intestinal dog model (FIDO) or
TIM-1 and TIM-2 (small and large gastro-intestinal models).

No one knows how many animals are dying in homes or how many are dying
in laboratories for pet-food profits. PETA is calling on Menu Foods to
provide full disclosure regarding the location of its laboratories,
for law enforcement agencies to investigate whether cruelty-to-animals
charges should be filed against Menu Foods in the U.S. and Canada for
alleged failure to warn consumers about the tainted food as soon as
the company had the information, and for Iams to stop unnecessary
suffering and death by immediately ending its laboratory tests on
animals.

PETA's Investigation Revealed Cruel and Deadly Tests Conducted for
Iams

http://www.iamscruelty.com/introduction.asp
For nearly 10 months in 2002 and early 2003, a PETA investigator went
undercover at an Iams contract testing laboratory and discovered a
dark and sordid secret beneath the wholesome image of the dog- and
cat-food manufacturer. Undercover footage captured images of dogs who
had gone insane from intense confinement to barren steel cages and
cement cells, dogs who were left piled on a filthy paint-chipped floor
after having chunks of muscle hacked from their thighs, and horribly
sick dogs and cats who were languishing in their cages, neglected
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=iams
and left to suffer without veterinary care. In addition to suffering
through painful experiments, animals in Iams labs were denied
companionship and enrichment and were confined to their barren cages
for at least 23 1/2 hours every day. The recent massive recall by Menu
Foods,
http://getactive.peta.org/campaign/menu_foods
contract manufacturer for Procter & Gamble's Iams and Eukanuba
brands-of more than 60 million cans and pouches of dog and cat food is
further proof that laboratory tests on animals do not guarantee that a
product will be safe to use.

I know I will probably get told off :blush:

My dog who is 12 now has survived all this time in excellent health on Whiskers cat food.

What can I say. We have tried her with dog food, but she much prefers pinching the cats food from their bowls. The vet said it is wrong for her, but she is well and healthy.

Hi Hennypenny - I don't doubt your dog prefers cat food- it is generally much richer in protein - our dobermutt always tries to steal our cats' food - we had to install a dog gate to separate her from their food area but she's always testing it to see if we've accidentally left it open..

It's not dangerous, but it's not nutritionally correct either- having said that, your vet says she is well and healthy, so I wouldnt propose you change her diet now. I'm sure our dobermutt Ailsa would wish she could have the same, at times.

Dogs can eat cat food- however, it's dangerous for cats to be fed purely on dog food as cats are unable to manufacture taurine which is found in cat food- and as mentioned before, cat food is higher in meat content and protein, usually. You wouldnt think cat's would want to eat dog food, actually, but we have an Havana Oriental who goes through stages of stealing Ailsa's dog food (usually whilst Ailsa is earting it- good thing she is even-natured about it:biscuits, meat AND dog treats, she steals it all!)

It can't be for it's nutritional value, since cat food is far more tasty and good for her (so we are lead to believe- not that I would know). We can only assume it is a psychological/dominance thing- Aero came from a lady who also breeds German Shepherd Dogs and her Oriental cats and kittens lived happily with 10 GSDs and a Great Dane - they were probably very comfortable eating alongside their giant canine buddies and took great delight being able to snatch food from the dog bowls.. Her nickname is 'no fear'.

Steve,

I tried feeding Takara BARF and it made her seriously malnourished. So please take these things into account when you post such comments.

BARF suits many dogs but it also doesn't suit many others. I carefully calculated it, and read up on it, but couldn't get Takara to eat certain parts of the BARF diet so she ended up malnourished (not particularly underweight - but malnourished)

Burns is based on a natural diet (as I believe many others are) and is actually produced by a vet who had the same concerns as you and I regarding kibble.

By the 'biscuit of death' do you refer to how it's produced or what it does to the dog? As I know plenty of people with incredibly healthy dogs who are fed on what I could only call utter rubbish!
Eddy who is now 12 and is often mistaken for a puppy was fed on Wagg biscuits for 11 years before we got him, he was only moved over to Burns because of his wind and because I feed Takara on it.


Ditto the BARF thing- I seriously looked into it, but it didnt work for my dog - hence, we do the next best thing and buy BURNS and Nature Diet or Nature's Menu.

I agree with Lotti 100% on feeding.



BARF imo is a fad and if anything a WOLVES diet not a dogs. We feed a high quality kibble and always will. after 14yrs of good results why change ? I tested out BARF on my dogs for 3 months,The results were slighlty duller coat, higher prey drive , which to me is useless since im anti hunt and took up so much time and effort preparing and storing etc..

As for landywoods barf type meats, theyre really not fit for humans it says that on the packet so i wouldnt feed it to my dogs,

Now I know where I remember you from Velvet & Steel and Kirstys Forum

How come you dont post on AB co uk anymore:roll:

Steve M.

As for the two forums that you mentioned , you will know the amount of lies,backstabbing,abuse etc That went onto those forum's. Insted we set up the American Bulldog Society and Rescue. 100% A Bulldog Positve No negatives .

How come your on a Bulldog Forums ? Do you own one ;) ?
If so get in touch via PM, will get you some links ..

But pure Breed forums , theres ONly so much to talk about, unless you chat Sh*t LOL..Just found this one the other week , the ppl seem friendly . the mods sensible and Above all a variety of animals.

Hope that answers your questions

Wow that's a long post Steve! Apologies for skim reading only but I'm supposed to be doing something else! :lol:

I understand that many dogs have different reactions to different foods, and that some have been put on the market without being fully tested. But are we supposed to ignore the dogs that choke on bones because they crunch don't chew, the dogs that, like mine - were malnourished due to being fed BARF, or indeed those that turned out to be allergic to something in the BARF diet??

I do the best thing I can which involves feeding a high quality kibble, raw bones on occasion and bio yoghurt regularly.

There are so many people who tried BARF and couldn't get their dog to eat the full set of things that I can't see how it can possibly be better for all dogs than a high quality kibble.

Finally, we all have the right to be here - but personal harrasment of members is taken very seriously, Steve so please let that be it about the past between yourself and IceniBulldog.

Thankyou

What past I have no past with him except that we were both members of the same board when I had an American Bulldog, never ever replied to him except on here, dont know him from Adam

I dont like the inference that I have harrased anyone please explain.

Nope no bad felling here matey ?
perhaps crossed wires Perhaps

I stopped using the boards two years back when the dog died I just pop in now and again to see whats happening and it's not much tbh
V&S was always the better board when John used to take an interest in the running. The photos of foundation dogs he had was second to none.

steve_m and IceniBulldog, my apologies - I have responded to your pm steve_m and if you wish to pass it on to IceniBulldog, that's fine :)

I wasn't suggesting you had harrassed anyone, it read as though you had history from the other forums, and didn't want it being carried over to here. Glad to hear there's no hard feelings and I hope you weren't too bothered by my interference :)

Max is fed once a day. He has omega with some broken dog biscuits and as he can be a bit picky at anything I offer him I spice it up with a bit of processed chicken, ham or similar.
However he's less picky when sitting at my neighbours door and will accept virtually anything offered to him and I just hate to imagine what he finds in the hedgerows sometimes.
I also have to remember to make sure he has plenty of fresh water which he always glugs after eating his dry food.
He also seems to recognise the sandwich shop, the bakers, the butchers, the pet shop and various friends houses where he knows he might get an extra tit-bit

we feed part b.A.R.f and part chudleys working crunch, twice a day, except for pups under 6 months, who get fed 3 times a day.

When we first got Timba GSD he'd been fed on complete,
I've never been a fan of cmplete diet,Having gsd for years always gave them meat and biscuits,
But decided that was what he was used to

He had always had, a wet scabby patch on his back near his tail
nothing we tried would get rid of it, plus he never realy looked healthy
So i decided to take him off the complete

I now give him cooked chicken thighs or mince or lamb,
boiled with brown rice and some veg,and a teaspoon of wheat germ
he has that twice per day with some mixer bisciut, and he's never looked better, his back is better and hes in excellent health.
My two cavaliers have exactly the same smaller quantities obviously.

I dont feel complete has been around long enough to see the long term damage it can do

I remember when I was little all our dogs were fed mainly from the table
with perhaps some Lassie dog meat, (Showing my age now),
and I dont recall our dogs, needing the vet very often,
in fact I dont think theres ever been as many vets as there is now
something is obviously keeping them in business

But thats just my opinion, and people have the choice to feed
whatever they feel is best for their dog.

I`ve fed my dogs raw for years now. They have chicken wings, carcesses, liver, hearts, pulped fruit and veg, occasionally game and rabbit, beef, eggs, cottage cheese, natural yoghurt etc obviously not everything in the same day !!

Before i went to raw i did a lot of research into it and for me it was the right way to feed MY dogs, i do feel though it is completely up to the individual dog owner what they feed and also to consider how it is going to fit into their lives.

I would never judge anyone who fed kibble or tinned food as long as their dog is loved and healthy, to me, that is much more important.

Everything i feed my dogs is fit for human consumption by the way.

Has anyone used a brand called Hi-Life (complete sachets)? I am still experimenting on what's best to feed Moo and I like the look of this as its soft. At the moment I am mixing it with Pedigree complete.