When the Jacobite Scottish highlanders under Bonnie Prince Charlie/Lord Murray eluded Cope's Govt army further north, and fast-marched southwards into England heading for London (then in a near state of panic), why did they not ravage parts of England en route?

I'm thinking of Chatsworth House. This was/is still the main stately base of the powerful Cavendish family(William, became the 1st Duke of Devonshire in recognition of royal service), the first Duke being a staunch supporter of King William III's Glorious Revolution in 1688, which ousted Bonnie Prince's grandfather, Catholic King James II. Surely this was just one thing that grated with the embittered and "disinherited" Prince on his south/north-bound journeys?

Was it a question of speeding to London and not sparing the time for raiding? Not having enough spare forces to split them? Or not ravaging, so thus hoping to win the northern English over to their cause and to Catholicism again(especially against a German king)?

They actually reached as far south as Derby before Murray/chieftains argued with Bonnie Charlie persuaded the reluctant Prince to head back north(and a Scottish (Govt) spy- of "good Jacobite credentials" convinced them that a huge Govt army was heading northwards).

It's 17:35 just now.

Is there anything we can do in preparation?

It's 17:35 just now.

Is there anything we can do in preparation?

Keep calm, call ambulance, keep warm! :hihi:

ive often wondered the same thing,they were close enough as ive read that some took shelter in the caves at matlock,another decided to settle hereabouts at norton and opened an inn,he got on well with the locals ive read until the day a british officer had his way with the scotsmans daughter,the scot killed him

ive often wondered the same thing,they were close enough as ive read that some took shelter in the caves at matlock,another decided to settle hereabouts at norton and opened an inn,he got on well with the locals ive read until the day a british officer had his way with the scotsmans daughter,the scot killed him

I've not heard this, but it could be true.

Some Spaniards(the few that weren't murdered when scrambling ashore, or dying of disease/dehydration etc aboard their limping galleons) settled in remoter parts of Britain & Ireland after the Armada was driven off by the English navy in the Channel in 1588, before being dashed against the rocks by fierce storms around Britain's north and Ireland's west coasts over the following terrible months.

Some of the descendants of those men still live in coastal communities, so why not the Scots left behind in northern England from the doomed '45 rebellion?

ive often wondered the same thing,they were close enough as ive read that some took shelter in the caves at matlock,another decided to settle hereabouts at norton and opened an inn,he got on well with the locals ive read until the day a british officer had his way with the scotsmans daughter,the scot killed him

Wonder if the "Scotsmans Pack" at Hathersage has similar history - could be where the Scotsman packed up an went home...............

Wonder if the "Scotsmans Pack" at Hathersage has similar history - could be where the Scotsman packed up an went home...............

Cut and pasted from a couple of web sites.

The man in charge of a packhorse train was known as a jagger. A jag was the load which one horse could carry. Peakland place names include Jaggerways, Jaggers Lot, Jaggers Gate, Jaggers Clough and several Jagger Lanes.

Peakland wool and woollen goods were traded with centres in Yorkshire along a packhorse route to Halifax Gate. It was of such importance to Bradford wool merchants that they contributed £10 towards repairing a bridge at Hathersage which lay on the route.

Packhorse trains from Cheshire reached the Peak through Hope which, like nearby Castleton, still has a Cheshire Cheese Inn. In the 1790s, Robert Thornhill of Great Longstone was having tons of cheese brought from Longnor by packhorse.

The Scotsman’s Pack at Hathersage was much used by Scottish tailors using the surrounding packhorse routes. We also have several Packhorse Inns.

Packhorse trains wound their way across the hills and moors of the Peak into the mid-19th century.


Directly below the church hill is the Scotsman's Pack, and old Packhorse inn. Hathersage lay on the old packhorse trail between Manchester and Sheffield and pack trains climbed out of the valley either up The Dale past the Scotsman's pack, or up past Gatehous to Stanage Pole following the route of the old Roman Road. In the 18th century, the turnpike road (now the A625) was constructed, replacing the packhorse trade. Much of the early prosperity of the village came from this trade route as it was the last stop before the long (and dangerous in winter) haul over the high (1700ft) moors into Sheffield.

It's 17:35 just now.

Is there anything we can do in preparation?

Errrrrrrm, shouldn't that have been 19:35?:hihi:

When the Jacobite Scottish highlanders under Bonnie Prince Charlie/Lord Murray eluded Cope's Govt army further north, and fast-marched southwards into England heading for London (then in a near state of panic), why did they not ravage parts of England en route?

I'm thinking of Chatsworth House. This was/is still the main stately base of the powerful Cavendish family(William, became the 1st Duke of Devonshire in recognition of royal service), the first Duke being a staunch supporter of King William III's Glorious Revolution in 1688, which ousted Bonnie Prince's grandfather, Catholic King James II. Surely this was just one thing that grated with the embittered and "disinherited" Prince on his south/north-bound journeys?

Was it a question of speeding to London and not sparing the time for raiding? Not having enough spare forces to split them? Or not ravaging, so thus hoping to win the northern English over to their cause and to Catholicism again(especially against a German king)?

They actually reached as far south as Derby before Murray/chieftains argued with Bonnie Charlie persuaded the reluctant Prince to head back north(and a Scottish (Govt) spy- of "good Jacobite credentials" convinced them that a huge Govt army was heading northwards).

I seem to recall the army of Bonnie Prince Charlie in England was in disarray, he did not have the support of the English Jacabites he had been promised and the King’s son, the Duke of Cumberland was hard on his heals. His council made the decision to return to Scotland where he was roundly defeated by the Duke of Cumberland at the Battle of Culloden.

Thinking about why he didn’t destroy Chatsworth, all I can think of is that he was on a mission to put his father back on the English throne, so his agenda was different, besides which why destroy something that might later come into your possession, plus the fact their number one priority at that time was to save their own skins and get back to Scotland asap. :)

I seem to recall the army of Bonnie Prince Charlie in England was in disarray,

Good grief! How old are you?

:suspect: The truth about why they didn't go to Chatsworth house, is quite simply that Chatsworth wasn't on their SatNav. :hihi: :hihi:

Good grief! How old are you?

I'm old enough to remember what I was doing as a kid, but now I'm an old goat I don't have to hide my easter eggs they hide themselves. :hihi: