Sheffield is mentioned in this report as one of the first cities to be introduced to First Group's new Street Car.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/transport/Story/0,2763,1343004,00.html

Anyone have more info ?

Streetcars? I would've thought this was a good idea if they're cheaper than trams because wouldn't it give them more money to extend the tram system further over Sheffield?

There's a very good streetcar system in Toronto, Canada and it's owned by the same company who run the subway and the buses. TTC - Toronto Transit Corporation or something like that. You can get off the subway with a 'transfer' ticket and then get on the bus/streetcar at no extra cost as long as you're continuing your initial journey. It's nice when you don't have to keep paying out when you switch from subway to streetcar or streetcar to bus. :)

It'd be nice to see something like this system in Sheffield although I'm not holding my breath.

I read about this in the Telegraph a couple of months ago.

I think they had proposed to use them on Penistone Road and Barnsley Road IIRC. Presumably chosen because they are relatively straight roads.

There's a bit more info about it on the First Group website:

First Streetcar (http://www.firstgroup.com/corpfirst/press/pressreleasestory.php?id=185)

Cheers,

Pete

Streetcar is basically a bendy bus that is designed to look like a tram, as trams are more likely to attract new users than buses!

Another difference to normal buses is the driver is locked away in his cab at the front and does not get involved with tickets and fares, which should make the journey quicker as less time will be spent standing at bus stops.

However there seems to be no mention of conductors, so I suspect fare evasion will be a big problem.

Originally posted by Andy C
!

Another difference to normal buses is the driver is locked away in his cab at the front and does not get involved with tickets and fares, which should make the journey quicker as less time will be spent standing at bus stops.



We are going backwards !!!

This amounts to no more than a old fashioned bus with a conductor.

In London they are getting rid of the last of the fantastic old Routemaster busses and all their conductors in the name of progress. Here in Sheffield we are now talking of having them back !!!

We got rid of trams and brought them back, we got rid of conductors and we might be getting them back, whats next.

Are the council going to rebuild the Kelvin?

Originally posted by Pauly
Streetcars? I would've thought this was a good idea if they're cheaper than trams because wouldn't it give them more money to extend the tram system further over Sheffield?

There's a very good streetcar system in Toronto, Canada and it's owned by the same company who run the subway and the buses. TTC - Toronto Transit Corporation or something like that. You can get off the subway with a 'transfer' ticket and then get on the bus/streetcar at no extra cost as long as you're continuing your initial journey. It's nice when you don't have to keep paying out when you switch from subway to streetcar or streetcar to bus. :)

It'd be nice to see something like this system in Sheffield although I'm not holding my breath.

It's a great system in Toronto, I used it when I was there and it's so easy to use. Shame Sheffield can't have a underground system, I don't think they can build one because of the type of rock underground, a similar problem in Edinburgh prevents this too.

I'm familiar with the ones in Toronto, but not sure how this idea applies to Sheffield, as we already seem to be doing okay with the Stagecoach trams. First seem to have the urge to get into everything (whilst not particularly treating their workers well!).

Originally posted by JayBaker
First seem to have the urge to get into everything (whilst not particularly treating their workers well!).
All First wants is to be in the good books of whoever is in charge and rake the maximum money in without caring about consummer satisfaction or workforce satisfaction.
Plus the idea is pants as that would create another non-linkable mode of transportation, it can't be integrated withing the bus system nor the tram system...

Either develop the first of the latter, don't create a new one !:rant: :rant: :rant:

The first new 'Streetcar' or Superbendy Bus was featured on the BBC 6 o'clock News at a press day in York today . Its also planned for introduction in Sheffield and Leeds this Autumn. Nothing on Look North afterwards which surprised me.

First group press release:

Darling Launches Shape Of Future Public Transport

05/03/2010

Alistair Darling, the Secretary of State for Transport, today launched a brand new concept in public transport - a cross between a bus and a tram service.

Its objective is to take 10% of car journeys off the roads on the corridors its serves within five to six years. That would increase public transport usage on those same corridors by 30%.

The initiative is to be rolled out nationwide by First, the UK’s largest public transport operator, and The Wright Group, the vehicle manufacturer.

It will look like a tram, run on dedicated road space in congested areas, but have the route flexibility of a bus. Each route will be designed to deliver near door-to-door services to a very high specification including real time information and text messaging to identify when the next service is going to arrive at a given point.

The service is to be known as “f t r”, the texting shorthand for “future”, and the vehicle that will deliver it is called “StreetCar.”

First Chief Executive, Moir Lockhead, said: “The first vehicles are coming off the production line, the first contracts are being signed and the first services will be up and running later this year. ‘f t r’ introduces us to next generation public transport - flexible, high quality services that bridge the gap between the bus and light rail. It is the marriage of a next generation vehicle with dedicated infrastructure and hi-tec information systems which together will offer fast, comfortable, reliable and frequent near door-to-door services. ‘f t r’ is the perfect solution for local authorities in the battle against traffic congestion. It can be introduced quickly, without major upheaval on our roads and at a fraction of the cost of a light rail scheme, perhaps as little as a tenth of cost of a new tram network. It is designed to appeal to motorists as a high quality alternative to the car for some journeys.”
more…
Darling launches shape of future public transport…continued

For local authorities it can be an interim measure for key corridors until demand justifies an upgrade to a light rail scheme. Just like a tram, it will speed past congested rush hour traffic on dedicated lanes, turn red traffic lights green on its approach and access the heart of cities closed to other vehicles.”

Alistair Darling said: "It is encouraging to see new types of public transport being developed - offering effective solutions to congestion problems. f t r will give Local Authorities a new option when looking at transport issues, one which can provide a flexible service to meet passengers' needs."

The first ‘f t r’ services will begin in York later this year. Detailed plans are being developed for other schemes in cities around the UK.

Jeff Wright, President of The Wright Group, said: “f t r is a breakthrough concept in the way we think about urban travel, and the StreetCar vehicle is its most tangible component. The merging of passenger desires, driver needs and operating requirements into one complete package is firm evidence that this industry can deliver a world-beating product.”
ends

Note to editors:
Historically, manufacturers have produced vehicles to their own specifications and operators have bought them. This time, First and The Wright Group have worked together, looking at all elements of the design from the customer’s perspective. This partnership has:
· researched how buses are used
· designed a vehicle that meets passenger needs, ironing out problems identified by research
· involved focus groups to give customers a say in the sort of vehicle they want to use
· involved engineers, cleaners, drivers and marketing teams in the design to ensure the vehicle is as functional, fit for the purpose, reliable, easy to maintain and attractive to users as it could possibly be made.
The research used on-board video cameras to see how customers used existing vehicles – how they boarded, where they stood or sat, how they behaved on short or long journeys, and how they interacted with buggy users.

Based on our Leeds / Bradford Guideway and extensive bus priority experience we have compared the costs of a light rail corridor with an f t r corridor. We could provide similar capacity at less than a tenth of the cost (example below assumes capital costs only for 7km length):

Light rail corridor:
· Probably need 10 double car light rail vehicles @ £2m each = £20m
· 7km of track at up to £20m per double track kilometre = £140m
· Total cost £160m

f t r corridor:
· Probably need 15 f t r vehicles = £4.5m
· Extensive Guideway /Bus priorities @ £10m
· Total cost £14.5m

I thought it was utter crap when I heard about it last November, and still do.

I saw one of my favorite cities crapped up by this completely absurd mode of transportation back in 2002. I stand by my opinion of this beeing totally insane.
Unless they lower ticket prices, the buses, Streetcars or First-rocket won't have more passengers !

God Damn, get real !

I bet if it was a Yorkshire Terrior FTR then it would be popular on this forum!

From the article:

shares in FirstGroup closed up 20.25p at 308.75p, after pre-tax profit for the six months to September more than doubled to £50.2m - ahead of expectations

And they're still putting up ticket prices?

I'm familiar with the ones in Toronto, but not sure how this idea applies to Sheffield, as we already seem to be doing okay with the Stagecoach trams. First seem to have the urge to get into everything (whilst not particularly treating their workers well!).

These will at least be able to go places where the tram cannot (without costly and disruptive track laying). I would love to see a tram service extend out towards Ecclesall/Crookes/Abbeydale. I'd use the trams over the busses everytime if they went anywhere near me.

basshedz

Originally posted by hj dary
We are going backwards !!!

This amounts to no more than a old fashioned bus with a conductor.

In London they are getting rid of the last of the fantastic old Routemaster busses and all their conductors in the name of progress. Here in Sheffield we are now talking of having them back !!!

We got rid of trams and brought them back, we got rid of conductors and we might be getting them back, whats next.

Are the council going to rebuild the Kelvin?

So? It seems that we're going backwards for the right reasons.

London is getting rid of conductors because all their busses now operate on a "pay before you board" system where you buy your ticket from a machine at the bus stop.

These streetcars sound like a great idea. What's needed though is a sensible through ticketing system - but we'll never get that as long as there's different companies running the trams and the busses. I don't see any mention of through ticketing in any of the proposals above.

they do look impressive but how much will they cost to travel on ?

streetcar (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/iloveny/2005/03/bus/index.shtml)

I assume they will charge the same as any other First bus.

Although from what I have read about you buying tickets from machines rather than the driver, I am guessing a lot of fare dodging will occur, unless they have inspectors on virtually every bus - if they do they may as well just have conductors like on proper trams!

Originally posted by Andy C
I assume they will charge the same as any other First bus.

Although from what I have read about you buying tickets from machines rather than the driver, I am guessing a lot of fare dodging will occur, unless they have inspectors on virtually every bus - if they do they may as well just have conductors like on proper trams!

It's very much like any other transport system that works on the honour system. If you get caught without a ticket then you get a hefty fine.

The Newcastle metro works like this. In fact the trains in England work like this too.

If there's a lot of fare dodging going on then it becomes worthwhile for the company to hire more inspectors, but they'll rarely need on on each bus.

As First like to raise as much money as possible they my bring in a fixed plenty of £10 if you do not hold a valid ticket if regular inspection take place.

Originally posted by craigmason
they do look impressive but how much will they cost to travel on ?

streetcar (http://www.bbc.co.uk/northyorkshire/iloveny/2005/03/bus/index.shtml) That can't be right... It's a bus, and it's not pink :D

But yeah, there is a general concensus of heatred against First, so whatever they come up with most will dismiss it.
We're sceptics, and if it ain't gonna be cheaper to travel on there is absolutely no point.

Originally posted by silverknight
As First like to raise as much money as possible they my bring in a fixed plenty of £10 if you do not hold a valid ticket if regular inspection take place.

They plan to do that anyway with a penalty of £50 or the option of a Court appearance if not in possesion of a valid ticket on its buses so I am told now that will be a real money spinner.

Apparently they're now operating in Sheffield?

I've not seen them though!

Apparently they're now operating in Sheffield?

I've not seen them though!

I saw one in town yesterday lunchtime and had to wonder what it was doing here!

Anyone got any info as to if they are indeed running now and what routes?

http://www.goftr.com/view.php - they look completely gay.

And, if they're running up Barnsley Road, I should imagine they'll have to have conductors on each one - possibly armed conductors, at that.

Well, sir, there's nothing on earth
Like a genuine,
Bona fide,
Electrified,
Six-car
Monorail!
What'd I say?

Monorail!

Monorail!

MONORAIL!

"Why does a town like Springfield with a relatively centralised population need a monorail?"

"That's the most intelligent question I've ever been asked! I could answer it, but I'm afraid there'd only be you and I who understood it... and that includes your teacher".

Some pictures of it operating in York: http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.woodhouse/FTR

York's Lib Dem nutters introduced it. Something the size of a bendibus in York's narrow streets? You couldn't make it up.

It straddles junctions; takes up the length of two buses at bus stops. Is a danger to cyclists. You pay for your ticket before you board (tourists, expecting to pay cash are told to get off and go buy a ticket).

The routes these monstrosities run through have had their speed humps removed, corners altered. New huge bus stops lay outside folks houses. They can no longer park outside their homes. Businesses can't take deliveries because nothing will stop the 'ftr' in its tracks.

Only a local council like York's Lib Dems could see that something as unsuitable as this glorified bendi-bus was just what the narrow streets of medieval York needed.

The Evening Press's post bag has never received so much mail. Everyone hates it except of course, the council.

Still, there goes £4 million taxpayers' money.

Guess we ought to expect our council tax bills to rise again then? (This is the council which is crippling the heart of York with its astronomical car parking and permit fees. I've never seen so many boarded up premises in York.)

Apparently they're now operating in Sheffield?

I've not seen them though!

Not yet operating in Sheffield. First have had one here for test running.

I assume they will charge the same as any other First bus.

Although from what I have read about you buying tickets from machines rather than the driver, I am guessing a lot of fare dodging will occur, unless they have inspectors on virtually every bus - if they do they may as well just have conductors like on proper trams!

The ones in York have a self service ticket machine on the bus. They have travelling inspectors who move from bus to bus, so there is every likelyhood that passengers will have to show tickets on each journey.

And presumably test blocking-up-the-streets, and test dangerous-driving, and test pulling-away-from-bus-stops-just-as-someone-finishes-running-towards-one. Hope they did well.

They still look gay to me.

They look crap!!! It's just an extended coach with some dodgy plastic covering the wheels and painted pink.

Why can't the government see the benifits of Light Rail systems, above the costs.

Numbers of people using buses is falling all over the country (except London) because the vehicles, number of services, punctuality, comfort etc are so poor. Buses are also seen by many people as for 'the plebs' only and would not think of using them.

in London, where services are generally much better, all types of people are happy to use them, and so the numbers of people using them is rising. The bus system was never deregulated (unlike the rest of the country) so there's better planning of services and much more investment.

This pretend-tram is presumably aimed at those people who currently don't use buses at all, but are happy to use the tram sometimes because of the quality of the ride, frequency of service, known routes etc. So in that sense it could be a good thing. But do we really need a vehicle like this? Why not just double the amount of normal buses and make sure they were all brand new and of the latest design and went where people wanted to go? The best routes in Sheff are well-used (eg 52, 60) why not have that quality all over the city?

The bendy-bus in Leeds is well-used because it's on a route people want to use and it's fairly frequent, not because it looks a bit like a tram (which it does a bit inside, although it hasn't got the wheels covered up). Just put loads more quality normal buses on a route and you'd get the same result without the problems of the longer vehicle.

The ones in York have a self service ticket machine on the bus. They have travelling inspectors who move from bus to bus, so there is every likelyhood that passengers will have to show tickets on each journey.

According to the Press (formerly Evening Press) you purchase your ticket before you travel and then insert it into another machine when you board the 'bus'.

Unfortunately, these machines have failed so often that on many occasions passengers have travelled for free. As I said, tourists have boarded the 'bus' with cash at the ready, only to be told by a disgruntled driver - sorry, 'pilot' (see, it's quite funny) that they cannot pay by cash and need to get their tickets before they board.

You can see the bemused stares from the Japanese from here. 'Me, no pay? You take money, yes?'

'No luv, ya need to get ya ticket befo' you cum on board,' (eyes to ceiling from 'pilot' Pete).

Virtually every letter published on this matter (in the Press) has said 'give us our old number four double-decker back.' But that would lead to the Lib Dems admitting they got it wrong (just like their parking policies and love of yellow lines) and as we all know, no council has the balls to admit they were/are wrong.

Bilge - good post.

But one reason so few people are likely to convert to public transport actually has little to do with cost and reliability.

Some of us simply don't wish to travel with foul-mouthed 'yoofs' who simply can't control themselves or their mouths whilst travelling on public transport.

Then you get your drunks, people who during day light hours are like the rest of us, sensible and pleasant. But after a night out, they're transformed into idiots looking for trouble, swearing and being a constant thorn in the side to other people on board. (I know not everyone is like this after a drink, but you only need one on board for you to sit there, looking embarrassed with your eyes staring at the floor, hoping Mr Plonker doesn't single you out. And it's worse if you take your children on a bus.)

Then you've got the tinny sounds of MP3 players (or is that playaz?), irritating ring-tones on phones and people who need to announce to all fellow passengers (sufferers, surely?) what they 'is up to tonight, getting wrecked with 'chelle.'

Would you prefer that, or the comfort and sheer privacy of your own vehicle?

Minimum fare for adults £1.50 http://www.goftr.com/fares.php

Can't see the point of these. They take up a lot of road space for not much more capacity than a double decker bus.

And despite all the plastic cladding, its still a diesel bus spewing polluting fumes, just like all the others.

Extending the tram, or a Trolley bus system would be much more realistic.

K.

And despite all the plastic cladding, its still a diesel bus spewing polluting fumes, just like all the others.

Extending the tram, or a Trolley bus system would be much more realistic.


This is a bit off topic, but why doesn't the government encourage more development in eco-friendly public transport, such as Natural Gas or Hydrogen powered busses, Trains (instead of widening motorways) and Light rail systems. This would be an easy area for them to cut back on CO2 emmisions and other polluting gasses.

I saw one of these driving past the station a few days ago. Must have been out on 'test'. :rolleyes:

Whatever will they dream up next?

http://www.autoreview.ru/new_site/year2002/n11/news/800/StreetKa.jpg

Do they plan using these on high yield routes?

It will look like a tram, run on dedicated road space in congested areas

Oh wupdee do, more of 'congested road space' will be sectioned off and empty for 95% of the time, whilst the people in the cars then have half as much road space and twice as much congestion.
What a brilliant idea, which drug crazed baboon thought that up?

Oh wupdee do, more of 'congested road space' will be sectioned off and empty for 95% of the time, whilst the people in the cars then have half as much road space and twice as much congestion.
What a brilliant idea, which drug crazed baboon thought that up?

If it is brought into Sheffield, we wouldn't expect to be much in the way of changes needed to accommodate it. Maybe a few tweaks at bus stops etc. It's just a bendi bus reallly so no need to expect there to be great lengths of extra bus lanes to accommodate it.

so the point about it having it's own specific road space in congested areas is what...?

And having seen (I think) these things operating elsewhere, do they not have guide wheels which can be deployed so that the bus runs like a tram through certain sections?

so the point about it having it's own specific road space in congested areas is what...?

And having seen (I think) these things operating elsewhere, do they not have guide wheels which can be deployed so that the bus runs like a tram through certain sections?

No, you're thinking of a guided busway, which is a completely different beast. That can run on the road like a normal bus but can run in it's own "track" which has raised concrete sides, which the guide - wheels run against. There's one of these in Leeds and another in Manchester. The Government quite likes them because they are a lot cheaper than trams.

Streetcar is basically a bendi bus which looks externally quite like a tram and has an internal seating arrangement similar to a tram. It doesn't run on it's own track, it runs on street just like any other bus, it's just a bit longer.

i saw one parked up in the layby on Wooley Wood bottom last night about 6.30 is the Peasant wagon going up market lol

York's Lib Dem nutters introduced it. Something the size of a bendibus in York's narrow streets? You couldn't make it up.

It straddles junctions; takes up the length of two buses at bus stops. Is a danger to cyclists. You pay for your ticket before you board (tourists, expecting to pay cash are told to get off and go buy a ticket).

The routes these monstrosities run through have had their speed humps removed, corners altered. New huge bus stops lay outside folks houses. They can no longer park outside their homes. Businesses can't take deliveries because nothing will stop the 'ftr' in its tracks.

Only a local council like York's Lib Dems could see that something as unsuitable as this glorified bendi-bus was just what the narrow streets of medieval York needed.


See I don't understand half your arguements. It isn't like bendi-buses are a new thing for York, yes the 'ftr' is new. But there's been bendi-buses in York for years and years, and as you said, the 'ftr' is just a glorified version, and I'd never heard anybody complain about them before they became purple.

Of course you don't mention the positive aspects of it either, you can pay by text and the bus sends a text to your phone, with a bar code which you then scan when you get on.

It definitely does have some disadvantages in York, but I think the negative picture you paint isn't so accurate! Those disadvantages surely don't apply in Sheffield since the streets aren't exactly narrow are they?

isn't there a by law in sheffield that says that articulated vehicles cannot charge for carrying passengers?
Just a rumour I heard in the bus industry.

So? It seems that we're going backwards for the right reasons.

London is getting rid of conductors because all their busses now operate on a "pay before you board" system where you buy your ticket from a machine at the bus stop.

These streetcars sound like a great idea. What's needed though is a sensible through ticketing system - but we'll never get that as long as there's different companies running the trams and the busses. I don't see any mention of through ticketing in any of the proposals above.

the othjer reason the RM was got rid of was accessiblity - they are possibly the least accessible buses still in use

nowt wrong wit hthe idea of the conductor - One man operation was to save money when bus passenger numbers were dropping - now we seem to be trying to keep cars out of urben areas and promote Public transport use - also the experience ofthe railways that never got read on vehicle non drivign staff and the trams that use conductors suggests there are ambience reasons to have a conductor as well as revenue protection reasons

My dad went on one of these on the 60 route. So if they didn't have to do any road adjustments along that route, I don't think they should have much problem in Sheffield.

My dad went on one of these on the 60 route. So if they didn't have to do any road adjustments along that route, I don't think they should have much problem in Sheffield.

Id love to see it negotiate the bend at the bottom of Cimicar Lane and pick its way up to Barncliffe with all the dodgey parking.

I am told that the drivers are refered to as Pilots (yeah right) and they will not be the run of the mill drivers that are currently factory produced for public consumption.

Lol. I'm not sure it would have got down to crimicar lane. There's a few nasty little bends there.

isn't there a by law in sheffield that says that articulated vehicles cannot charge for carrying passengers?
Just a rumour I heard in the bus industry.

No. The reference is probably to the old 500 City Clipper bendi bus. At the time those bendi buses didn't have a certificate to carry paying passengers, so it ran as a free service shuttling shoppers around town. This of course was subsidised by the taxpayer....

No. The reference is probably to the old 500 City Clipper bendi bus. At the time those bendi buses didn't have a certificate to carry paying passengers, so it ran as a free service shuttling shoppers around town. This of course was subsidised by the taxpayer....

cool, thanks for the clarification.

No. The reference is probably to the old 500 City Clipper bendi bus. At the time those bendi buses didn't have a certificate to carry paying passengers, so it ran as a free service shuttling shoppers around town. This of course was subsidised by the taxpayer....

Just wondering, was any research done to find if it reduced car traffic or not? If so, did it?

K.

isn't there a by law in sheffield that says that articulated vehicles cannot charge for carrying passengers?
Just a rumour I heard in the bus industry.

This isn't true, they used to charge when bendi buses were used on the 40, 70/71, 501, X90 and in later days, the City Clipper.

First recently did a short free trial of the Streetcar on the 60 route, the bus had no ticketing equipment aboard so they didn't charge.

First recently did a short free trial of the Streetcar on the 60 route, the bus had no ticketing equipment aboard so they didn't charge.

Sounds like the ones in York whose machines fail regularly.

Maybe the trials on the 60 route (which I never saw despite using this route daily) might explain why the bus lay-by at the terminus on Barncliffe Road has been extended so much?

As other posters have said, I'd love to see this glorified bendibus negotiate the corner at the bottom of Crimicar Lane and Brookhouse Hill.

I envisage surrounding buildings which make this corner tricky, will be demolished in due course.

As one can see in York, NOTHING gets in the way of the 'ftr' and its 'pilot'.

Sounds like something from Play School, doesn't it?

Well in a way it is: only a city council could dream of such a pointless, unnecessary, expensive, pollution-churning, congestion-making, unwanted waste of tax-payers' money.

Sounds like the ones in York whose machines fail regularly.

Maybe the trials on the 60 route (which I never saw despite using this route daily) might explain why the bus lay-by at the terminus on Barncliffe Road has been extended so much?

As other posters have said, I'd love to see this glorified bendibus negotiate the corner at the bottom of Crimicar Lane and Brookhouse Hill.

I envisage surrounding buildings which make this corner tricky, will be demolished in due course.

As one can see in York, NOTHING gets in the way of the 'ftr' and its 'pilot'.

Sounds like something from Play School, doesn't it?

Well in a way it is: only a city council could dream of such a pointless, unnecessary, expensive, pollution-churning, congestion-making, unwanted waste of tax-payers' money.

Just a reminder that the Bendi Buses that were in use in Sheffield and operated from the old Greenland Road garage regularly used Crimicar lane on service 60 there was no problems due to the extra length most of the time and are generally more manoeuvrable than say a Volvo B7 the only problems up this road is the inconsiderate parking which will not concern the owners of the vehicles one jot as they generally do not use public transport.

Well in a way it is: only a city council could dream of such a pointless, unnecessary, expensive, pollution-churning, congestion-making, unwanted waste of tax-payers' money.

The proposal to introduce Streetcar has come from First, not the City Council. No works have been done or are yet planned to accommodate it ,as no decision has been made on whether it is coming or not. The City Council are of course working constructively with First regarding their plans.

Just a reminder that the Bendi Buses that were in use in Sheffield and operated from the old Greenland Road garage regularly used Crimicar lane on service 60 there was no problems due to the extra length most of the time and are generally more manoeuvrable than say a Volvo B7 the only problems up this road is the inconsiderate parking which will not concern the owners of the vehicles one jot as they generally do not use public transport.

This was the point I was trying to make,the way cars are parked would make it very difficult for the streetcar to negotiate many of sheffields fine roads.

As a note a wheelbarrow is more manoeverable than a Volvo B7:hihi:

I heard we were getting the mark 2.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n25/buggy_throwback/ftrmk2.jpg

Please say that that's a joke. I can't work out from the photo whether it's been chopped or not.

Psst... it's a joke.

Paraphrasing: "Not a tram but a vehicle with a designated route in bottle necks"

-excuse my ignorance but isn't that what bus lanes are for???? and wouldn't it be way cheaper to just have more bus lanes?? such as extending the rather rubbish one for the 52 (by the childrens hospital) - you sit in traffic for ages then have about 200 yards of bus lane! wooooo hoooo!!

extending it how, you can't just grab a road and stretch it to make it wider.

extending it how, you can't just grab a road and stretch it to make it wider.


so they intend to put these street cars in where then??

picking up stretching would be nice but the usual narrowing of paths/other lanes would probably be the only way - I just think as I said above more or longer bus lanes are the answer not some querky system copied from some other city where its blatently failed!

Flying cars are clearly the only way forward.

Flying cars are clearly the only way forward.

Doesn't bear thinking about. Many drivers can't cope with one set of indicators, imagine if they also had another set,- for up and down :hihi:

so they intend to put these street cars in where then??

picking up stretching would be nice but the usual narrowing of paths/other lanes would probably be the only way - I just think as I said above more or longer bus lanes are the answer not some querky system copied from some other city where its blatently failed!

who knows. that's one of the questions I asked planner1 earlier and he said that they will just use existing bus lanes.

So from that I guess all this really is is a bendy bus with a conductor on board, other than that, it's no different to a normal bus...

Some pictures of it operating in York: http://picasaweb.google.com/dan.woodhouse/FTR

Looks like an enormous man-eating purple caterpillar :) Would be a lot more attractive in silver/metallic grey as the supertram used to be.

I have been in the FTR prior to its release in York, whilst it looks impressive it has one falicy.

The one i went on only had approx 40 seats in it, so length of 2 buses and seating less than 1!!!!

hey ho wait till yorcard arrives!

As First like to raise as much money as possible they my bring in a fixed plenty of £10 if you do not hold a valid ticket if regular inspection take place.



There's already a scheme in operation where if your caught fare dodging you will be fined £35.00.