People who are so narrow minded as to slag of these people must be very very brave or very stupid, I mean would you want to be cursed or a spell put on you.

i think the problem stems from a lack of understanding of what these people actually believe. same goes for satanists and many other religions.

Damn Right I totaly agree with you on the same note everyone is entitled to there beliefs :D

I don't really like the three being grouped together. Someone might feel that they have psychic abilities and yet not be a witch or a wiccan.

And although I'm not au fait with the beliefs of Wiccans, I don't think they go around casting spells on people or cursing them.

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
I don't really like the three being grouped together. Someone might feel that they have psychic abilities and yet not be a witch or a wiccan.

And although I'm not au fait with the beliefs of Wiccans, I don't think they go around casting spells on people or cursing them.

Joe

i don't think that they have been grouped together, just talked about together.

Originally posted by Maldonado
i don't think that they have been grouped together, just talked about together.

But the comment was applied to the three groups of people that they'd go around cursing folks.

Not necessarily so!

Joe

Sorry Ddin't mean it that way Just took the three as examples and to say about people pulling differnt people down. No witches Wiccans don't curse people but they do believe anything sent out bad will be returned 10 fold with love.

People who are so narrow minded as to slag of these people must be very very brave or very stupid, I mean would you want to be cursed or a spell put on you.

Bikertek, I don't want you to think that I'm following you around on the forum criticising your posts, but this one is a corker.

Firstly, Joe, you're right. The three cannot possibly be grouped together.

Secondly, without wishing to offend Moon Maiden here, do you seriously believe that by "slagging off" a witch, they are going to curse or put a spell on you? Get real, man. You are actually causing great offence to any sceptics that read this post. You're implying that if you don't believe that a psychic, wiccan or witch has the ability to curse you and you happen to offend one of them, that you are stupid (sceptics in this case can't be called brave as they are convinced that this group of three peoples can't physically curse anyone). In effect, you're calling all sceptics stupid, right? All of them would offend one of your three groups without considering being cursed as a consequence.

Secondly, it's news to me that a wronged psychic has the ability to curse.

I really think you need to post in more depth to try to clarify your position over this - it cries out for some supporting arguments. I'm utterly dumbfounded. In fact, if Moon Maiden sees this, I'd really like her opinion.

Let me just add that I have no axe to grind with any of the three groups. I've met quite a few witches in my time, and used to hang around in my youth with a couple of prime pagan types.

Why carnt they be grouped they are obviously three types of persons you don't agree with. Witches wiccans and Devil worships I believe do have the capablity to curse people, no Psychics dont have the capablity. But the point im trying making is all three of four type of people or outside of the norm and classed as different because of there believes. No not slagging off a Witch wiccan Devil worshipper ect would curse you but if you caused them enough harm or greave then yes I believe they could.

Maybe moony could put a curse on you as a test of her power then you could mark her ten out of ten. :D lol

Only kiddin Moony.

Why carnt they be grouped they are obviously three types of persons you don't agree with.

The reasoning in that line of defence is non-existant. Are you yourself a psychic? How did you know to group the three together because I "don't agree with them"?

Your argument was that people that are so narrow minded in slagging off witches, wiccans and psychics are brave/stupid because of the threat of a curse? It was you that bundled the psychic in there. Not, I feel, because of their ability to curse, but as a way of slipping the fact that the abilities of mediums have been questioned today on another thread, your girlfriend is a psychic and you feel somehow aggrieved, and you perhaps constructed a seperate thread to indirectly respond?

My First post to you was at 08-11-2004 01:33 PM remediums on test thing this thread was started at 07-11-2004 11:58 nearly a day before no im no psychic just coincidence.
Work out the times Ant.

Sorry not getting at you just putting across my opinion,

people can be as narrowminded as they wish and slag off the titles you have detailed as much as they want also. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. If someone wishes to know more of what I do/beleive I am more than happy to offer that information and try to put it in terms they can understand, however I have learnt very quickly that if a person is so firm in their beliefs that they rule out all possibilities it doesn't really matter what I explain to them. At the end of the day it just needs a basic amount of respect...the pre-roman britiains managed it.

What I don't aprreciate is people bringing their igorance and intolerance to my door ad happily I haven't had any aggrovation for my beliefs in Sheffield...I know there are many pagans/witches/wiccans and psychics around the country who face daily intolerance to the point they don't even tell their families about their beliefs due to what they would have to endure.

As for cursing and hexing.....wiccans believes it will come back three fold...a witch does not believe in any such man made code. I did hear that Heathens think there is a ten fold return but only their Sidhe actually practise magik.
Would I bother to hex anyone on forum.....:D

no im no psychic just coincidence.

But you're still wrong. Your observation that they are obviously three types of persons you don't agree with.

seems to have been plucked from marshmallow land. I have already stated in this thread that I have no axe to grind with any of the three groups. I've met quite a few witches in my time, and used to hang around in my youth with a couple of prime pagan types.

I don't believe that witches or wiccans have any supernatural abilities, but I'm perfectly willing to be proved wrong - and I'd much rather take a witch for dinner than three dozen other professions I could roll off. I have also been looking for a genuine medium for twenty years, but have only come across charlatans. I wouldn't dream of "slagging off" any of the three groups. The only point I have made to you directly concerning mediums is that they should play no part in a serious paranormal investigation group. Especially when they won't put their money where their mouths are, and their reputations on the line. But there you go. We'll leave it at that.

Why wouldn't you use a medium in your investigations. Surely it would be helpful not only for the investigation but also in weeding out charletons as a scientific infestigation could go infront of a medium to ascertain proovable infromation.

Whilst I do not agree witht he way most haunted is conducted as an investigation the set up they try to maintain seems logical.

But why this thread has gone from Witches and Wiccans ans psychich to medium I am not entirely sure...any chance we can keep this on topic.

moon

Why wouldn't you use a medium in your investigations. Surely it would be helpful not only for the investigation but also in weeding out charletons as a scientific infestigation could go infront of a medium to ascertain proovable infromation.

Well, you've almost answered this one yourself. Why should a paranormal team use a medium in an investigation? James Randi has offered $1,000,000 should any medium be able to prove themselves as having psychic abilities. This is as yet unclaimed. If mediumistic ability were proven scientifically, which it hasn't been - a great deal of research has been conducted in this field afterall - then yes, a genuine medium could indeed play a part in investigations, and weed out the charlatans. However, no mediums have yet been proven to have genuine abilities, so it's hardly a valid scientific method of investigation, is it? And what would be the point of utilising a squib (a Harry Potter term) to paranormally weed out another squib? If the mediums taking part in these investigations allowed themselves to undergo rigorous testing under an appropriate scientific research team (Dr Susan Blackmore is still indirectly assisting in research in this field if anyone is interested), the door is open. If then they were shown to have genuine paranormal abilities, their eligibility to take an active paranormal part in an investigation would be unquestioned. Until then, they are an unwanted, damaging nuisance to the field.

Whilst I do not agree witht he way most haunted is conducted as an investigation the set up they try to maintain seems logical.

The setup is quite logical, I agree, though seriously flawed (table-tipping and glass divination are totally inappropriate for serious investigations as the possibility for cheating are obvious). And the same points that I've made above concering mediums taking part in investigations apply to Derek Accorah. The possibility of him obtaining information from a non-paranormal source - let's say the producer - can't be ruled out.

But why this thread has gone from Witches and Wiccans ans psychich to medium I am not entirely sure...any chance we can keep this on topic.

With all due respect, that's a silly thing to say Moon Maiden. The terms psychic and medium are in the context of this thread, interchangeable; you are being pedantic. Bikertec's initial post was (I think) concerning the [unlikely] paranormal consquences of offending one of the three groups, and the narrowminded attitutes towards the paranormal fringes - mediums have to be included with psychics here. If you're saying a thread concerning witches, wiccans and psychics shouldn't be allowed to expand to include mediums - which you seem to be - then I'd have to start another thread called "witches, wiccans, psychics and mediums". Can't see the point, but I'll do that if you like? If you're questioning the drift from the initial subject into the use of psychics in investigations - which you don't seem to be - then that would be a valid point. But my digression of

The only point I have made to you directly concerning mediums is that they should play no part in a serious paranormal investigation group was

a) Fielding Bikertec's comment that they are obviously three types of persons you don't agree with. which, out of context to other paranormal threads on the forum, didn't make sense.

b) Followed up and expanded upon by yourself.

But getting back onto topic, as requested, I think that one reason why many people have such intolerance of wiches, wiccans and psychics (and mediums) is their inability to back up their claims under laboratory conditions, and yet we have to take it on good faith that these abilities are genuine. I've heard it said by countless psychics that they have nothing to prove to anybody, which is apt, given that they seem unable to prove their ability when they do submit to testing. And yet these unproven psychics, especially, rake in the money via phone-lines, personal consultations, books, city hall meetings etc. etc. and prey on those most vulnerable. It's not so much the way of life, but the unproven mumbo jumbo that irks people. Many american psychics tend to take things three stages further and hold regular consultation with Elvis, Hitler and alien life forms. Which makes people wonder: if this is just the extreme end of the spectrum and the more mundane, safe end continuously fails to prove itself to scientific scrutiny, why should the more sensible of the population suffer their stupidity in silence?

I think perhaps it may be my confusion as I lump mediums, psychic's and clairvoyants in the same boat...I left the paranormal behind me a long time ago and have forgotten the specific definitions of things. There appears to be a few catagories I can stick them into (for want of a better description) In most areas people would seek to distance themselves from media grabbing tarts like Derek and King Kev *cough*.

I personally put a dividing line between the above and wiccans and witches, as many mediums are able - in some way- to validate their beliefs using christianity as a base and foundation. So it doesn't just become an ability it becomes a belief system like the spiritualist churches there are dotted about.

Wicca and witchcraft cannot do that...lol would love to see the look on the local vicars face if someone tried to tell them that. I do know a handful of pagans who use jesus and the christian god as one of their focal deities...which is a bit wierd to me.

This is the other problem and perhaps where the upset comes in when asked - does the scientific community demand that christians and bhuddists attend sessions to proove their worth and claims? No. And I wonder whether this is the reason psychics have begun to set up or be involved with churches.

There is alot more to witchcraft and wicca than just hocus pocus but that is the most popular aspect for someone to focus on something they don't understand.

Moon