The train, the 5.35pm First Great Western service from London Paddington to Plymouth, hit the car, which was apparently stationary on the track at around 6.15pm.

6 people killed and another 6 seriously injured so far.

It is estimated that the trian could have been travelling up to 90mph on impact. Up to 8 carriages are said to have been derailed.

I wonder what the investigation will uncover. At this stage it's hard to understand how a car was on the crossing unless of course it had attempted to go around the barriers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3989277.stm

No report of the driver of the car yet? There's been a suggestion of a suicide attempt.

Notice how little coverage it's getting compared to Hatfield and Ladbroke Grove though? Great Heck got less interesting the minute it was established as a vehicular accident. :mad:

6 are dead, and there is up to 130 casualties... This is just getting ridiculous... What is happening to this country?? Just spend millions on the train and train tracks instead of the bloody war...
My thought go out to the families of the dead an injured

Originally posted by Sony
Just spend millions on the train and train tracks instead of the bloody war...


Not wanting to pre-judge the results of any enquiry, but ....

How many millions would you have to spend to stop someone determined enough to by-pass the barriers and reverse down the track, as some reports suggest?

I saw this last night, but they'd only announced 1 death and a few injuries. Obviously we'd all like to see zero accidents on our railways, but really, they're always going to happen.

Just to put things in a bit of perspective, nearly 40000 people are killed (10%) or seriously injured on our roads every year. I still consider the train as being the safest way to travel around the UK.

That said, level crossings are a pretty obvious weak-point as far as safety is concerned!

Originally posted by Sony
6 are dead, and there is up to 130 casualties... This is just getting ridiculous... What is happening to this country?? Just spend millions on the train and train tracks instead of the bloody war...
My thought go out to the families of the dead an injured

I'm sorry....what are you suposed to do if someone is dumb enough to try and run the crossing barriers and / or try and top themselves in such a dumb manner?

How will spending millions on the rails mitigate against either stupidity or selfishness?

Not everything that happens in this country can be blamed on the Iraq war.

Until they get the details sorted out it's not going to be possible to tell what's happened here, but I'm sure that Mr Blair's decision to send troops to Iraq wasn't an instrumental part of the accident....

Joe

Originally posted by JoePritchard
I'm sorry....what are you suposed to do if someone is dumb enough to try and run the crossing barriers and / or try and top themselves in such a dumb manner?

How will spending millions on the rails mitigate against either stupidity or selfishness?

Not everything that happens in this country can be blamed on the Iraq war.

Until they get the details sorted out it's not going to be possible to tell what's happened here, but I'm sure that Mr Blair's decision to send troops to Iraq wasn't an instrumental part of the accident....

Joe

Perhaps not in this particular incident but the state of our railways is catastrophic. They haven't been modernised for decades..

Originally posted by Sony
Perhaps not in this particular incident but the state of our railways is catastrophic. They haven't been modernised for decades..

Fine, but this is about this incident.

Yes, the railways system has been ballsed up for decades, and numerous governments have had the opportunity to do something and have failed, not just Tony Blair since 2003.

Joe

Originally posted by Sony
Just spend millions on the train and train tracks instead of the bloody war...


Millions...? This govt. have thrown Billions at the rail system since 1997 and it is still judged to be worse than before privatisation.

Nothing to do with this incident of course, - but did anyone else here watch the 'Whistleblower' programme lasy week ? It seems however much we throw at the rail network most of it just goes down the drain.

After what the programme revealed about track maintenance I would be seriously worried if I were a regular train traveller. :suspect:

Hiya Greybeard,

There's an old adage in advertising that states that 50% of the money spent in arketing and advertising is wasted...unfortunately no-one knows which 50%....

On a serious note that is, I believe, at the bottom of the problems with the railway system and other large public projects. In the effort to be seen to be 'doing something' no minister is wanting to be the guy who says 'We're going to do bugger all until we work out exactly WHAT we need to do'.

Until we get that approach, we'll continue throwing dosh at problems and hoping that some of it sticks.

Joe

so sad i missed whistle blower i meant to record it but forgotten.

Originally posted by JoePritchard


On a serious note that is, I believe, at the bottom of the problems with the railway system and other large public projects. In the effort to be seen to be 'doing something' no minister is wanting to be the guy who says 'We're going to do bugger all until we work out exactly WHAT we need to do'.

Until we get that approach, we'll continue throwing dosh at problems and hoping that some of it sticks.

Joe



True Joe, - but money being wasted isn't the main problem, which is passenger safety.

In spite of the findings of the Potter's Bar Inquiry track maintenance is still to some extent in the hands of 'cowboys'. The reports of concientious track inspectors are being ignored by senior management and in some derailment incidents their reports have been deleted 'post facto' from the maintenance record to conceal culpability.

Eventually some people are going to pay for this cavalier attitude with their lives. The only solution seems to be the re-integration of train operation and the rail network, but it means that politicians will have to swallow the bitter pill of the failure of doctrinaire policy.

From the prgramme the only certainty that emerged was that Network Rail track inspectors, who frustrated that all their warnings are ignored, will face the sack if they reveal their concerns to the media.

The cheapest option was to re-Nationalise back in 1997.
Before privatisation BR was largely run by engineers from top to bottom now it's by money men who's main interest is maximising profits (largely through fleecing the taxpayer) and avoiding responsibility for poor service, incompetence and atrocious health and safety standards.
In this case though, Isuspect that there are only the actions of a madman to blame.

Ok, let's get back on topic here, which is the terrible crash near Reading at the weekend.

Looking at the reports in the media there was nothing wrong with the track, signals or train, and the level crossing was in working order - in fact after the crash the barriers were still down and the lights flashing.

It is also clear the main focus of the enquiry is the car, which drove onto the crossing before the train was coming and parked on the lines, with the barriers lowered after the car was on the crossing. The cause of the crash is the presence of the road vehicle. It is also worth pointing out that the half barrier design of the level crossing stops cars getting trapped.

Now the question the police want the answer to is was it suicide or did the car break down. I am guessing the thoughts are going in the suicide direction as the driver did not get out of the car. Therefore it would suggest this was a deliberate act.

The second question which the railway authorities may ask is was there any factors that made the derailment worse - for example the points not long after the level crossing.

Lets stop making silly, irrellavant comments. And as for banning all level crossings it would be nice, but expensive and probably not neccessary. And in fact the Selby accident proves that cars can also fall off bridges onto the railway.

How far should we take this idea in the wider world? How about we ban tall buildings to stop suicide terrorists flying planes into them?

Originally posted by Andy C


Now the question the police want the answer to is was it suicide or did the car break down. I am guessing the thoughts are going in the suicide direction as the driver did not get out of the car. Therefore it would suggest this was a deliberate act.

The second question which the railway authorities may ask is was there any factors that made the derailment worse - for example the points not long after the level crossing.

Lets stop making silly, irrellavant comments. And as for banning all level crossings it would be nice, but expensive and probably not neccessary. And in fact the Selby accident proves that cars can also fall off bridges onto the railway.

How far should we take this idea in the wider world? How about we ban tall buildings to stop suicide terrorists flying planes into them?

Don't think it's fair on the car driver's family to speculate on whether this was a selfish suicide, people do freeze in fright. OTOH if the car had stalled he may just have stayed with it trying to restart and move it, appreciating that the abandoned car could cause a derailment, - but pushed his luck too far.

If he had abandoned the car he would certainly have been vilified by the media, and had the pants sued off him by both the authorities and the relatives of other injured parties. Perhaps in despair at this prospect he thought death was an easier option ? Anyway we shouldn't know officially until the inquest, though I'm sure the tabloid press will have it cut and dried long before then.

It seems likely that the points may have caused the coaches to jack-knife if only a couple of bogies were derailed. The wheels on these bogies would have jammed in the points, but who are we to blame for the proximity of the points to the level crossing ?

What we should ask perhaps is why high speed trains don't have some device on the front to push obstructions out of the way rather than allow the train to run over them.

Not sure what tall buildings and planes have to do with it, unless you're aiming to illustrate a silly irrelevant comment :rolleyes:

I must express my deepest sympathy for the victims and their relatives over this awful tragedy. And hope more can be done with regard to level crossings, which are there to be abused by impatient, reckless and otherwise motorists.

On a lighter point. Right next to the train crash site there are cows grazing....not a glimmer, not a raised eyebrow, not a pause in scoffing. No remorse, no sympathy, nothing.

I think the animal rights brigade should apologise (in writing) for those cows and their unconcerned stance. ;)

Originally posted by Greybeard
Don't think it's fair on the car driver's family to speculate on whether this was a selfish suicide, people do freeze in fright. OTOH if the car had stalled he may just have stayed with it trying to restart and move it, appreciating that the abandoned car could cause a derailment, - but pushed his luck too far.

I strongly agree with you here Greybeard, there is still no proof made public whether it was a breakdown or suicide and quite frankly the media speculation is getting quite silly and potentially offensive.

Andy, I find what is in the Sun, Mirror, Express and Mail offensive every time I see them, so I don't think I would notice the difference.

Originally posted by Greybeard

It seems likely that the points may have caused the coaches to jack-knife if only a couple of bogies were derailed. The wheels on these bogies would have jammed in the points, but who are we to blame for the proximity of the points to the level crossing ?

Not blame, but maybe it is something that can be learned for the future in terms of designing track layouts.

Originally posted by Greybeard


Not sure what tall buildings and planes have to do with it, unless you're aiming to illustrate a silly irrelevant comment :rolleyes:

Bit of a flippant comment, but saying level crossings should be banned just in case a suicide car driver causes such a disaster again is like banning tall buildings incase another 9/11 happens. Ie over the top reaction.

Originally posted by Andy C
Not blame, but maybe it is something that can be learned for the future in terms of designing track layouts.

Exactly. Health and Safety is one of the least understood concepts of everyday life by your average punter.

Yes, if someone is determined to park their car on a track realistically there is only so much you can do to stop them. Okay, you can make it more difficult, but how often does this actually happen?

Okay, if "suicide attackers" start doing this as terrorism you might need a rethink, but there's more effective places to do it then on level crossings.

I work for a rail company and in the industry a lot of people are talking about what Greybeard mentioned about the points. If the train had just hit the car it would have remained upright, it was the position of the points that caused it to turn.

Originally posted by Yodameister
Andy, I find what is in the Sun, Mirror, Express and Mail offensive every time I see them, so I don't think I would notice the difference.

Well yes, I have to say the I cannot read an entire Daily Mail without wanting to kill somebody, with it's over the top views about asylum seekers. gays, drinkers etc.

However this dead motorist is being hung and quartered on the front pages. Just because he lives alone and has not much life outide work it is being suggested he is a depressed loner who may drive naked! What must his family think?