As you may be aware 8 weeks ago my two cats had kittens.

The first had 5 and the second had 6.

I posted on here and within a couple of days we had homes for them all.

I had had a lot of posts from well wishers but also many from people who tell me in a round about way that I had let the side down by not neutering my animals, and I have to agree, but I made a mistake and as well as battling my own demons I have well and truly paid the price.

So listed, is how much it has cost me for my indisgression.


New bedding for 1 set of kittens £8

Cleaning equipment, (bin bags, air freshner, litter tray, disinfectant floor cleaner, litter tray spray cleaner) £20

Cat Litter £45

Food, Tinned and dry, £90

Second hand scratch post and basket £35

Vet bill £218

that is a nice total of £416.00........ IN 8 WEEKS.

Not to mention the heart ache of the loss of 1 kitten when the mother killed it, and then the loss if the other on the operating table at 2 weeks old.

Then due to a time waster we have a good home to find for the last kitten.
Then there's the stress of not letting two cats out who are desperate to go out.

So I asked £20 for each kitten, '£180 for the lot,' someone said 'Hmmm not a bad profit,' Well its not like I made anything like a profit, and that was never the idea anyway. '£20,' someone else said, 'thats rather expensive for a moggie,' In fact when I looked for a kitten before getting mine I couldnt find anything for under £80. (I eventually did). I also know for a fact all my kittens have gone to family homes and are already a well loved member of that family.

My cats are now booked in for spaying next week. if i had done this to begin with this would have only cost £76!!

Now this isnt a feel sorry for me mail, I made my bed.. I was hoping this would serve as a warning to all those who think it is a good idea to let their animals have babies, who are all very cute but when you have the mess of 11cats to clean up!

The moral of the story is

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE NEUTER YOUR ANIMALS!!!!!!:thumbsup:

Couldn't agree more,
its just the same when people let pedigree dogs have a litter hoping for a nice tidy profit.

if you do it properly, giving the mum and puppies everything they should have,
including your time,maybe vets bills, and the extra food for mum, and feeding the puppies.until they are EIGHT weeks.
believe me you dont do it for money.

Thank you for that Claire, it was interesting to see how much it really has cost :o .
It is really easy to make a mistake with a cat, i know my Rosie got out and went missing when she was 6 months and i was in a right flap about it all, but luckily i was able to have her spayed a few days later so no harm done :)
I think its really great to see how responsibly you have taken the whole thing, get them spayed and put it all behind you.

Hi Claire, hope you have luck finding a home for your last kitten and your post has made interesting reading - hopefully it will help to dissuade other forumers from considering letting their cat have kittens- I am glad you managed to find loving homes for them all tho. I made all the right noises to the other half, knowing what a soft touch he usually is, but I don't think he's falling for it (we used to have a ginger boy and a ginger girl too - now we have the 4 posh cats and the senior moggie but at one time we had 8 so another one wouldnt have been much trouble). Mind you,what the barmy bengal boy would've thought to it is another matter).

You might want to consider posting a photo of him as that might help xKathryn

Excellent post Claire:thumbsup:

Admittedly it does cost having kittens but its also a excellent experience for owners and mother.

We found loving homes for our kittens and kept one to join our animal farm style family.

The joy in my wifes face when they became fluffy and turned into stereotypical kittens was amazing. The mother has turned into such a nicer cat and she has come out of her shell so has done wonders for her too. I had her neutered as soon as safe to do so as we dont want another kitten simply because of the hassle of finding good homes.

Its easy finding good homes for the first litter as you have a selection of friends usually, but once that resource is exhausted then you will probably be advertising for strangers to buy your cats and then its a different matter.

I would never be put off by the financial cost of having kittens as they joy you will get and other positives outway the cost massively but its very important to understand the potential costs and have money in reserve should the worse happen. If you dont have the disposable income then you SHOULDNT have any litters.

no 1 tip! Cat insurance from the earliest point you possibly can! Dont think kittens dont pop out ill as they sometimes can!!! Not my litter but somebody I know had a kitten with leuikemia (howe du yoo spel???) from birth passed down from a un-vaccinated mother they had rescued all ready impregnated! Cat insurance saved them hundreds of pounds of on going treatment!

Only wish we could go back to the beginning and have them all fluffy again, they arent as much fun fully grown up!

zerocool I really cannot believe the irresponsibility of your post, how can it be good for a 6 month old kitten to have kittens herself? because thats when they usually have their first litter, many have problems and just are not mature enough to know how to care for the kittens!
There is a kitten "epidemic" every year, how can you possibly justify having a litter of kittens just because they are cute, make you smile, and the mother cat enjoys them? all of those kittens need new homes, and if the kittens are not neutered the whole cycle starts over x what 5? and what happens to all the new generation of kittens? you do your sums how many kittens a year would one litter produce bearing in mind that litter will have probably 2 litters itself each in that year.

Admittedly it does cost having kittens but its also a excellent experience for owners and mother.

We found loving homes for our kittens and kept one to join our animal farm style family.

The joy in my wifes face when they became fluffy and turned into stereotypical kittens was amazing. The mother has turned into such a nicer cat and she has come out of her shell so has done wonders for her too. I had her neutered as soon as safe to do so as we dont want another kitten simply because of the hassle of finding good homes.

Its easy finding good homes for the first litter as you have a selection of friends usually, but once that resource is exhausted then you will probably be advertising for strangers to buy your cats and then its a different matter.

I would never be put off by the financial cost of having kittens as they joy you will get and other positives outway the cost massively but its very important to understand the potential costs and have money in reserve should the worse happen. If you dont have the disposable income then you SHOULDNT have any litters.

no 1 tip! Cat insurance from the earliest point you possibly can! Dont think kittens dont pop out ill as they sometimes can!!! Not my litter but somebody I know had a kitten with leuikemia (howe du yoo spel???) from birth passed down from a un-vaccinated mother they had rescued all ready impregnated! Cat insurance saved them hundreds of pounds of on going treatment!

Only wish we could go back to the beginning and have them all fluffy again, they arent as much fun fully grown up!

ooh, yeah, it's well cool when your cat or dog dies of pyometra, (A womb infection) because you havent been responsible enough to have your pet neutered.

yeah, It's well cool to be filling the rescue centres to the brim with unwanted kittens and puppies because you aren't responsible enough to get your pet neutered.

yeah, it's well cool to have your pet die whilst whelping because the birth has gone wrong, because you aren't responsible enough to get your pet neutered.

it's well cool to have to fork out on vet bills for feline leukaemia, or treatment for abscesses when your intact tom has been fighing with the other toms over a queen that's "in use". which would not happen, if folk were responsible enough to have their pet neutered

It's well cool when a farmer shoots your dog, for roaming on his land, or the dog gets killed/ injured by a car, when chasing after the scent of a female, because you aren't responsible enough to get your pet neutered

yeah it's well cool to get a puppy, or kitten, cos "yer, they's mint, in't they!" till it grows up a bit, and isn't so cute any more, but "It din't matter! we'll dump that one, and get anuvver one, becasue there's always cute kittens/ puppies available because folk aren't responsible enough to get their pets neutered."


at risk of labouring the point...

Responsible owners get their pets neutered.

it's not necessary to let a bitch or a queen have "just one litter". get 'em "done" at about 6-12 months of age.

zerocool I really cannot believe the irresponsibility of your post, how can it be good for a 6 month old kitten to have kittens herself? because thats when they usually have their first litter, many have problems and just are not mature enough to know how to care for the kittens!
There is a kitten "epidemic" every year, how can you possibly justify having a litter of kittens just because they are cute, make you smile, and the mother cat enjoys them? all of those kittens need new homes, and if the kittens are not neutered the whole cycle starts over x what 5? and what happens to all the new generation of kittens? you do your sums how many kittens a year would one litter produce bearing in mind that litter will have probably 2 litters itself each in that year.

Maybe I should point out that we discussed in length and asked for professional advice before deciding we wanted a litter of kitten. We then deliberatly put the tom and cat together. We didnt have a little by accident as you so obviously have been trying to put words into my mouth.

also, where did I say that we had a litter after 6 months??? You would think before shouting you mouth off you would get your facts straight.

and where did I say I didnt have my animals neutered??? I found homes for all my kittens within my circle of friends who all agreed to neuter the animals when they came of age. All my pets are neutered so I dont know what rock you came out from but read what I wrote and go hide under it again.

All my pets are also rescue animals so you dont have to sell to me the benifits of having rescue pets instead of supposed helping your "epidemic".

My "generation" of kittens ends immediatly as they are all neutered and heatly, insured and lovingly cared for by myself, my partner and all our friends that took the kittens into their homes.

Morons like yourself who shout out without considering other peoples feelings are only focused on controlling other peoples thoughts.

I provided a balanced view to the positive nature of having a little of kittens. Its not all negative as origionally posted. If it were, why would people have them? As was so expertly illistrated there is no profit in having a little of kittens, and there is no irrisponsibility where people make the decision to have a litter if they do so before the act and not after.

Let people make their own decision, its fair to illistrate both sides of a story and not hide the opposite side just because you have a strong belief... or am I wrong and you should just shout somebody down because they have the courage to say what they think and have evidence to prove that a previous statement is not 100% correct/truthful.

I suggest you google web ettiquette before your next post and consider what a real person on the other end of the screen may be thinking!

we discussed in length and asked for professional advice before deciding we wanted a litter of kitten. We then deliberatly put the tom and cat together. We didnt have a little by accident as you so obviously have been trying to put words into my mouth.
I am glad you didn't enter into this as most people do, without a thought for where the kittens would go to, but as a volunteer for a cat rescue myself, I find it difficult to read about so many litters of kittens produced deliberately when each of the friends of yours who took a kitten from you could have provided a home to the ones who are abandoned along with their mother on a regular basis - and this problem is mushrooming!

also, where did I say that we had a litter after 6 months???
I did not say your litter was after 6 months, but your post appears to encourage other cat owners to 'go for it' not everyone will be as careful or thoughtful about the whole thing as you were and my fear is that cats will suffer through this.
and where did I say I didnt have my animals neutered???
Because this is so important to me I will ignore the more inflamatory words of this comment, but neutered pets can't have litters yours did so that is how I came to my conclusion.
All my pets are also rescue animals so you dont have to sell to me the benifits of having rescue pets instead of supposed helping your "epidemic".
As an owner of rescue animals yourself, I'm surprised at you not having a grasp of the situation many cats are in.
It is not my epidemic, it is everyones who adds to the problem!

My "generation" of kittens ends immediatly as they are all neutered and heatly, insured and lovingly cared for by myself, my partner and all our friends that took the kittens into their homes.
Morons like yourself who shout out without considering other peoples feelings are only focused on controlling other peoples thoughts.
If you have ever had to endure the pain of watching healthy unwanted cats put to sleep, then I'll consider how you felt on that occasion and that one only!
Let people make their own decision, its fair to illistrate both sides of a story and not hide the opposite side just because you have a strong belief... or am I wrong and you should just shout somebody down because they have the courage to say what they think and have evidence to prove that a previous statement is not 100% correct/truthful.
No one is hiding anything, no one touched your post, they simply did not agree, this happens on forums I'm afraid.
That was how the OP found the experience and her experience is just as valid as your own!
People making a decision based on an informed set of facts is one thing, but randomly creating lives so others may be destroyed is quite another.
suggest you google web ettiquette before your next post and consider what a real person on the other end of the screen may be thinking!
Because I have responded to this post I did not moderate it myself, some of your comments to me were not called for and are also against forum rules.... I will leave it for others as to whether or not they remove them :(

I afraid I have to agree with Plaintalker and Moonbird on this one as I have previously worked in rescue for many years and for every kitten born another waits in rescue for a loving home, so sad to hear of another litter being produced the friends and family could have rescued a cat.

Personally I consider being called irrisponsible totally wrong from a person who does not have a complete set of facts so feel free to moderate as you wish but first look at the tongue yourself and Plain Talker replied in first and you will find mine matching that.

Regarding Gemimas comment I have to agree but there are issues getting kittens from rescue homes in that they are not always available. When I went to get my first kitten from a rescue home we hunted for ages as the time of year meant few/none available. Also many people I know will not (wrongly so) get a rescue animal for the same reason I will. They dont want a challenge if the animal comes with a set of problems, where as I do like the challenge.

You obviously have alot of anger for people mistreating animals which I can understand if you work in a shelter. However it would be better used focusing on the people that mistreat animals or cats than somebody trying to balance a story.

If you read the initial post the person seemed to have 2 litters by accident! You praise them for their actions. Yet somebody who researches, asks for professional advice and under strong consideration decides to put their pets to mate get aimed at for a shooting match. Sounds a bit hypocritical.

I have found genuine success in having a litter of kittens. Its the first and the last we will as our lifestyle does not suit having any further cats and were more than happy with the animal farm we already live in. Kittens are a joy to have rescued or bred and I would advise anybody to get one providing them can give it a loving and caring home.

If anybody is considering having a litter then I wouldnt allow you cat out to get pregnant and be sure you screen whats happening carefully. We seperated ours for over a year until we had decided what we were doing and it took them a further few months do get giggy and the cat was done immediatly after we confirmed the mother was pregnant. She was done when it was safe to do so after the birth. Once the kitten had grown up and all neutered we allowed all the cats out of the house so there was no risk of them getting other cats pregnant prior.

Strongly weighing up the benifits and costs should they decide to have a litter should prepare you for the worst and best cases of which there are plenty to see.

I think a certain amount of pressure should be better placed on people allowing any cat out of the house that is fertile. I have never seen a advert or a poster or anything illistrating the problems this causes. Im sure rescue centers are able to get free donations of marketing space to get this message accross yet they dont seem to bother. If you attack the roots of a problem then maybe it will be easyer to fight.

You are in a perfect position to do this.

Thank you Clare for your bravery in saying what you did in the original post.

Thank you for now realising that it's about more than the owners desire to bring a litter of lovely fluffy kittens into the world.

Thank you for now thinking about all the fluffy little kittens that are abandoned and looking for homes.

Thank you for becoming a responsible pet owner.

(wanted to put you a big hug on the end but the smilies won't work for me!!!)

Personally I consider being called irrisponsible totally wrong from a person who does not have a complete set of facts so feel free to moderate as you wish but first look at the tongue yourself and Plain Talker replied in first and you will find mine matching that.
I said that the post was irresponsible not that you were personally.
And where does my post match yours in "the tongue " I used? not once did I resort to using personal insults in the way that you did to me.
You obviously have alot of anger for people mistreating animals which I can understand if you work in a shelter. However it would be better used focusing on the people that mistreat animals or cats than somebody trying to balance a story.
Yes I do hate the mistreatment of animals, and I can see that you were trying to balance the story, but I have to say that I do believe your experience of a litter of kittens to be the exception and not the rule.
Most litters of kittens happen in just the way that it happened with the OP....by accident, you only have to read all of the other re-homing threads to know that to be true.
If you read the initial post the person seemed to have 2 litters by accident! You praise them for their actions.
I don't think that anyone praised the OP for having had the kittens at all, it was more a case of what was done was done, the OP had thought it all through and had used her experience to educate others, which she did in a really humble way, that is what I found praiseworthy out of the situation.
I think a certain amount of pressure should be better placed on people allowing any cat out of the house that is fertile. I have never seen a advert or a poster or anything illistrating the problems this causes. Im sure rescue centers are able to get free donations of marketing space to get this message accross yet they dont seem to bother. If you attack the roots of a problem then maybe it will be easyer to fight.

You are in a perfect position to do this.
Can you not see that this is what myself and others are trying to do here? it is a drop in the ocean, but if my words or anyone else's, make just one person stop and think about what they are doing... help them to see the bigger picture, then it will have all been worth it!
I also wish to add that if you took your cat from a rescue you will have been told not to allow her to breed at all and will probably have signed something to that effect, that is usually one of the terms for adoption.

zerocool- here you go- the Cats protection League's leaflet on why you should, wherever possible and safe to do so neuter your cat- around 20,000 reasons, actually
http://www.cats.org.uk/catcare/leaflets/590_have_your_cat_neutered.pdf

Most of the national pet rescue societies have similar leaflets and publicity campaigns from time to time.

Claire - it takes a big person to admit they have made a mistake - good on ya!

So many people don't learn from their mistakes and go on making them time and time again. Claire has learned something really valuable - how to be responsible pet owner.

I also volunteer for a cat charity, and despair over people who don't bother getting their cats neutered and then expect charities to deal with the aftermath of their inconsideration.

As far as adopting cats or other animals from rescue centres goes - it's a common misconception that the animals are all in the centres because they have some kind of problem. I can tell you from personal experience that the majority of our cats are there because of their owners selfishness, inexperience and/or stupidity - not because the cat has a problem.

I have to admitt in this occasion it would seem that zerocool is a very responsible pet owner. I don't think any of Zerocools posts promote reckless breeding, they just highlight the joy of breeding a cat when it is done properly.

However I do acknowledge there does seem to be quite a few irresponsible cat owners who don't neuter their pets...but I think it would be really sad to stop geniune cat lovers (who have potential homes for their kittens) to experience the joy of this small miracle.

I have to admitt in this occasion it would seem that zerocool is a very responsible pet owner.

I would like to say once again that no one has said that zerocool is not a responsible owner, I did however say that the post was irresponsible.
This small miracle (as you put it) brings a massive responsibility and one that is not being taken up in general terms.
Don't take my word for it have a look on the rescue sites research it yourself and then come back and prove me wrong!

I would like to say once again that no one has said that zerocool is not a responsible owner, I did however say that the post was irresponsible.
This small miracle (as you put it) brings a massive responsibility and one that is not being taken up in general terms.
Don't take my word for it have a look on the rescue sites research it yourself and then come back and prove me wrong!

Moonbird, your passion for saving our feline friends is amazing and I honestly am in awe of people like yourself who give your time and energy to protect and help poor mistreated and unloved animals.

However, reading through this thread, I would have to say you are becoming slightly blinded by anger at irresponsible owners.


In response to my post you said

"This small miracle (as you put it) brings a massive responsibility and one that is not being taken up in general terms.
Don't take my word for it have a look on the rescue sites research it yourself and then come back and prove me wrong"

I never said that this miracle (and I do believe the birth of any soul on this planet to be a small miracle) doesn't bring along massive responsibility. I don't need to look on any rescue sites because I already know the score. All I am saying is that if there was any owner responsible enough to breed from a cat then zerocool would be it.

Also your response to Zerocool orginal thread was:

"zerocool I really cannot believe the irresponsibility of your post, how can it be good for a 6 month old kitten to have kittens herself? because thats when they usually have their first litter".

This is very unfair. You are assuming that zerocools post is irresponsible because other people allow their cats to get pregnant at 6 weeks old....zerocool did not promote this or even hint at this. He was trying to tell you the joy of bringing kittens into the world when done properly ie neutering the animals and making sure they all have homes.

I can understand where you are coming from, I really do and I understand why you are being so aggressive but if every cat owner was like zerocool then there would be no kittens in rescue centres.

Godness me...............there is this thread and the one i started and i havent read them for a day and i checked today and every post is ssssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooooo long! lol!

I cant see how anyone can make a breeding mistake 'twice'!

zerocool what breed of cats do you own and in what manner did you rescue them?

honestjoe69 I can assure you that I am not blinded by anger towards anyone, it is just that I feel very strongly about animals and their welfare, they cannot after all speak for themselves.
I felt that the post was irresponsible because I felt that it would encourage less than responsible people to think that perhaps it was a good idea after all have a litter of kittens.
I know that zerocool did everything in his power to ensure that there were to be no more kittens out of his litter, but most people will not have that luxury, once the kittens leave them they will most likely never know what happened to them, and definately not be in a position to do anything about it.... this does upset me.
It saddens me but the fact of the matter is that every owner is not like zerocool, and many not even remotely like him, and all they need is a little encouragement and they will just go for it, the cats will pay for the little experiment with their misery.
This is all I have to say on the subject where this thread is concerned!

I have one female rescued domestic cat (Italics) from Thornberry who was a kitten when we got her, one rescued tom cat with wild parents (Ola) from a farm in the Orkney islands where the kitten was on deaths door and thin as a stick, and one female Maine Coon cross (Arial) we got from a SF member who was having trouble with her dog being extremely over excited around the kitten and wanted the kitten rehoming.

All our cats arrived un-neutered but Italics came with a voucher to get her done which we promptly used when it was safe to do so.

We kept one female kitten (Georgia) from the litter of 4.

We also have a rescued dog from Calton Forrest who was un-neutured.

It seems crazy to me that people have litters "accidentally" but I would support anybody considering having a litter the correct way and especially people that are looking into information and researching costs, and possible problems.

If somebody does come onto this forum and says... "I plan to have a litter of kittens deliberatly and would like some advice" and all they recieved is to be shouted down and called irrisponsible then its likely they will still have the litter but be ill-informed.

When we decided to have a litter this is exactly what happened to us however we purchased books and scoured the internet for knowledge. We even recorded the birth so that we could show anybody who wanted to see. I imagine most people would have not made the effort to teach themselves all they need to know and may have carried on dangeriously unaware of what costs and accidents could of happened.

I think at certain times of the year there are too few kittens for the demand. And im sure this must be correct I myself struggled to find a kitten. We were told that we "wouldnt find winter kittens" and our kittens were born 1st Dec 06 which was, in part, deliberate by the timing of putting our cats together.

It is all too easy to respond to someone's initial post on a thread where it hasn't been possible to know the full history. I think this has happened here. Zerocool's first post, seemingly, advocated indiscriminate breeding, which concerned me too and I would probably have responded in the same vein as Moonbird, had I not read further.

I still think Zerocool's first post left it open to misintepretation and perhaps could have been expanded on with, say, "let me elaborate" rather than resorting to personal insults, because it was suggested that the "POST" was irresponsible rather than the poster.

When thousands of unwanted healthy animals are being destroyed each year, it is difficult not to try and point out the problems having "just one litter" can create in the longer term.

As has been said, this thread could well sway someone's decision on breeding in the future so it's worth the discussion in the end. Well done for pointing out that there is no profit to be made Claire.

Are you saying that you had a litter of kittens from Italics, the kitten you adopted from Thornberry?

thanks for your responses guys, mistake well and truely learnt from!

My cats are now spayed and they are wonderful! I dont want to enter the debate but my post was just to high light the issues that are not really thought through by lots of people when they get any baby animal!

Are you saying that you had a litter of kittens from Italics, the kitten you adopted from Thornberry?

No- I know that the kittens were born to Arial.

thanks for your responses guys, mistake well and truely learnt from!

My cats are now spayed and they are wonderful! I dont want to enter the debate but my post was just to high light the issues that are not really thought through by lots of people when they get any baby animal!

Exactly- all animals can cost an arm and a leg with vet fees and extra things (and that's assuming that they're born healthy!).

I'm fostering a sick kitten at the moment- he's likely to cost hundreds in vet fees before he even gets to go to a new home (and more after that because he's probably going to need to have one of his eyes removed). That said, he's the most spirited, loving, sweet, naughty, infuriating, loving and gorgeous little thing that I've had about in ages.

Exactly- all animals can cost an arm and a leg with vet fees and extra things (and that's assuming that they're born healthy!).

I'm fostering a sick kitten at the moment- he's likely to cost hundreds in vet fees before he even gets to go to a new home (and more after that because he's probably going to need to have one of his eyes removed). That said, he's the most spirited, loving, sweet, naughty, infuriating, loving and gorgeous little thing that I've had about in ages.

has he got a name yet? is his bum ok now an his eye ulcers?

Any pics? :)

has he got a name yet? is his bum ok now an his eye ulcers?

Any pics? :)

He's called Idris (it's Welsh for dragon, since he was found on a Welsh hillside). His bum's still rather runny, but it's getting better and he really doesn't mind his daily bath and Sudocrem routine that's keeping his skin healthy.

His eye problem's not ulcers, it's a congenital formation problem, so there's not a lot to do with it apart from keeping it clean.

I haven't taken his piccie yet- he's a lovely little thing though and will make someone a fab companion when he's grown up a bit. He'll have to be an indoor cat for life since it's too dangerous to allow a cat with sight problems around traffic, but that won't be a problem to him I'm sure.

I'm sure it wont medusa, there are lots of people happy to home an indoor cat, these days. He sounds a little sweetie, hope he mends soon.