Finally the council has decided that they will be demolishing houses and shops in Fir Vale to re-build new properties and roads. So far the plan includes shops on Owler Lane, homes on Skinnerthorpe Road and redevelopment within Page Hall, Earl Marshal and the Barnsley Road area.

I must just say that the plans have been presented very poorly to the people who live in these areas - myself included. A mobile was meant to come to the area and show everyone what was planned. I was looking around for it for half a day along with other residents till we heard it was parked in the NG Hospital grounds!!!

The only plans we saw were very vague maps and aerial views of what was to come - you could only understand these maps if you were an architect. :confused:
Does anybody else know what is planned, when it might be happening and where?

Lestat

I've been receiving information and exhibiton dates in the form of the Fir Vale Messenger, which pops through my letterbox every month. I did go to that event down at Fir Vale School back in Summer this year, and gave my contact details in there.

One concern I do have is that most of the recent exhibitions were on weekdays, making me think they were aimed at unemployed / retired / peasants etc...for that reason, I never went to the exhibitions and don't know which areas are going to be demolished.

Scary post count you've got, btw...

Originally posted by Lestat
Finally the council has decided that they will be demolishing houses and shops in Fir Vale to re-build new properties and roads. So far the plan includes shops on Owler Lane, homes on Skinnerthorpe Road and redevelopment within Page Hall, Earl Marshal and the Barnsley Road area.

I must just say that the plans have been presented very poorly to the people who live in these areas - myself included. A mobile was meant to come to the area and show everyone what was planned. I was looking around for it for half a day along with other residents till we heard it was parked in the NG Hospital grounds!!!

The only plans we saw were very vague maps and aerial views of what was to come - you could only understand these maps if you were an architect. :confused:
Does anybody else know what is planned, when it might be happening and where?
knowing the council could be a white elephant like every thing else thy build

they are trying to push through various plans with the aid of large housing associations who have been promised homes for 'social housing'. I would be VERY careful what you sign up for. Take a look at the two houses on burngreave road (no. 22,20) how do they compliment the houses around them exactly? Maybe somebody could tell me, even the roof line is not the same.

some faceless london company designing for sheffield, hardly the best combination.

the area should be nuked............

Originally posted by kirky
the area should be nuked............

That's a thoughtful post, coming from someone who ran a drinking pit at the scruffy end of town :gag:

Originally posted by Abdul
That's a thoughtful post, coming from someone who ran a drinking pit at the scruffy end of town :gag:

ooo i love fishing...............

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

This sounds like a possitive project to say the least but will it improve the continueing snarl up of traffic in that area.
Major plans on the routing system needs a serious overall.

Originally posted by Cycleracer
This sounds like a possitive project to say the least but will it improve the continueing snarl up of traffic in that area.
Major plans on the routing system needs a serious overall.

Agreed.

The Northern General Hospital is surrounded by narrow, single-lane roads that, while suitable for the horse & cart and trams of 100 years ago, simply cannot sustain the amount of vehicles on them today.

However, some of the shopowners are against plans to improve traffic flow, as much of the congestion is caused by their customers parking on the pavements...

Is Owler Ln/Firth Park Rd a free car park because every time I go past the shops there are cars parked everywhere and any where,and the congestion up to the traffic lights is unblieveable.The traffic police must ignore this road because the problem has not altered for years.

Originally posted by wadsley10
Is Owler Ln/Firth Park Rd a free car park because every time I go past the shops there are cars parked everywhere and any where,and the congestion up to the traffic lights is unblieveable.The traffic police must ignore this road because the problem has not altered for years.

Owler Lane and Page Hall road has long been a no-go area for traffic wardens and police as far as illegal parking is concerned. In Page Hall I've seen people use the zebra crossing to drive their cars up alongside the grocer's shop that used to be the Natwest Bank. During the evening rush hour one lane of Owler Lane at the junction with Barnsley Road is often blocked by people dumping their cars to pop into one of the fast food shops ! The police know about the problem but seem to be reluctant to clamp down on offenders for fear of causing a riot.

Originally posted by Greybeard
The police know about the problem but seem to be reluctant to clamp down on offenders for fear of causing a riot.

How did you come to that conclusion?

Originally posted by Greybeard
Owler Lane and Page Hall road has long been a no-go area for traffic wardens and police as far as illegal parking is concerned. In Page Hall I've seen people use the zebra crossing to drive their cars up alongside the grocer's shop that used to be the Natwest Bank. During the evening rush hour one lane of Owler Lane at the junction with Barnsley Road is often blocked by people dumping their cars to pop into one of the fast food shops ! The police know about the problem but seem to be reluctant to clamp down on offenders for fear of causing a riot.

I can agree with you I am lucky I don´t live around there any more but I used to have a business neer the bottom of Herries Road above the traffic lights and I remember seeing neer riots when a traffic cop tried to put tickets on cars parked on the pavment at the lights a good 5 years ago

Originally posted by GJ2004
...I remember seeing neer riots when a traffic cop tried to put tickets on cars parked on the pavment at the lights a good 5 years ago

I asked Greybeard the question because I honestly believe those on the receiving end of a parking ticket would be too docile to start up a riot over it.

Can you be more specific about what you mean by near riots? If you mean waving their arms about in the air and shouting loudly, then that doesn't constitute a riot. That's just their way of welcoming you to their area :)

I must say that I use the route thro firth park rd /owler ln, regulary and I have never seen any traffic police any where near this area.One night one prat was parked outside the takeaway near the traffic lights completely blocking the lane that went up Barnsley Rd,disregarding the congestion he was causing completely.It is worse in the daytime with cars parked on double yellow lines and also blocking pavements,again this has been going on for years not just recently,and still nothing done about it.

I've got to agree with you robo, This is one thing which really does my head in! why oh why do they have to park outside the Prime Pizza in the left hand lane!! it blocks off a whole lane and traffic is slowed right down trying to go around the nincompoop who is usually stood outside eating a slice of pizza and laughing with his mates.

I normally park behind and beep non-stop until they move! one lad once shouted abuse out the window which was quite funny because he was obviously in the right!... NOT!.

The police are bloody useless around this area and should really get their fingers out of their a**e and move these incomprehensible idiots.

I think the sooner work begins on this area the better really.

Originally posted by Abdul
I asked Greybeard the question because I honestly believe those on the receiving end of a parking ticket would be too docile to start up a riot over it.

Can you be more specific about what you mean by near riots? If you mean waving their arms about in the air and shouting loudly, then that doesn't constitute a riot. That's just their way of welcoming you to their area :)
as i said it is (luckily) 5 years since i was there but i was there for 17 years and the time i am thinking about if you mean that waving arms about constitutes a welcome then it must have also confused the 4 police volvo estate cars and 2 police motor bike plus 1 armed response vehicle all of which turned up to calm the situation as i didn't think they were looking for the welcoming committee:loopy:

Originally posted by GJ2004
it must have also confused the 4 police volvo estate cars and 2 police motor bike plus 1 armed response vehicle all of which turned up to calm the situation :loopy:

All those and they couldn't issue a parking ticket?

Originally posted by GJ2004
as i said it is (luckily) 5 years since i was there but i was there for 17 years and the time i am thinking about if you mean that waving arms about constitutes a welcome then it must have also confused the 4 police volvo estate cars and 2 police motor bike plus 1 armed response vehicle all of which turned up to calm the situation as i didn't think they were looking for the welcoming committee:loopy:

Thanks for the confirmation GJ :D

I did notice a large police presence in the area this morning (several cars and a police van) so I hope they're finally taking action.

I don't think it's a no-go area for the Police. And the Curfew and Dispersal order should help!

Abdul, I have heard that they are going to have a bigger police prescence in Fir Vale and Page Hall for the next few months. To try and stamp out the druggies and groupies that seem to hand around everywhere.

Is it true about the curfew as well?

Originally posted by Abdul
I've been receiving information and exhibiton dates in the form of the Fir Vale Messenger, which pops through my letterbox every month.
I take it you mean the Burngreave Messenger Abdul - which only goes to a pretty small part of Fir Vale. I think Fir Vale Forum actually did a pretty reasonable job in promoting the consultation events - comapratively. there were a couple of hundred people who commented on the plans - which is a lot higher than most such similar exercises. And it must have kinda worked, as it was the Forum that was threatened with being firebombed!

In fact, most of the work probably won't ever be done. The reaction from the actual publication of the [lan has fair s**t some people up, - they genuinely didn't realise how people would feel when you announce that there homes are to be torn down! Crazy.

Lestat - yes, the curfew is set to run for at least two months, i think it's three.

Originally posted by Lestat
Abdul, I have heard that they are going to have a bigger police prescence in Fir Vale and Page Hall for the next few months. To try and stamp out the druggies and groupies that seem to hand around everywhere.

Is it true about the curfew as well?


Yep, the curfew is between 9pm and 6am in Fir Vale, Page Hall, Osgathorpe Park and the Wensley Estate. Check out this (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/viewarticle2.aspx?ArticleID=878703&SectionID=58&Search=Page%20Hall&Searchtype=any&SearchSection=58&DateFrom=102004&DateTo=112004&Page=1&ReturnPage=Results.aspx) Sheffield Star article for more info.

I'm sure the curfew was the reason the days leading up to November 5th were quieter than usual :D

The curfew is scheduled to run for six months (the maximum) btw.

Originally posted by commie pig
I take it you mean the Burngreave Messenger Abdul - which only goes to a pretty small part of Fir Vale. I think Fir Vale Forum actually did a pretty reasonable job in promoting the consultation events - comapratively. there were a couple of hundred people who commented on the plans - which is a lot higher than most such similar exercises.

It was the Firvale newsletter, commie. I don't receive the Burngreave Messenger, though I do read their website (http://www.burngreavemessenger.org.uk/) often.

Originally posted by Abdul
Thanks for the confirmation GJ :D

I did notice a large police presence in the area this morning (several cars and a police van) so I hope they're finally taking action.

I don't think it's a no-go area for the Police. And the Curfew and Dispersal order should help!

what do you mean THIS MORNING I,m talking 5 years ago have they only just woken up or is this a dream I am having

Originally posted by kirky
the area should be nuked............

Got any tickets I can just see the headlines in the star
Firvale weather forcast LOTS OF CLOUD : TEMPRATURE 5000 DEGREES : ETERNAL SUNSHINE

Originally posted by GJ2004
what do you mean THIS MORNING I,m talking 5 years ago have they only just woken up or is this a dream I am having

GJ, welcome to the forum. Some of your posts have me in stitches!

By 'this morning', I mean that in the space of 10 minutes, I saw several police vehicles in the area; about as many as I've seen in that area for a good long while :)

Originally posted by Abdul
GJ, welcome to the forum. Some of your posts have me in stitches!

By 'this morning', I mean that in the space of 10 minutes, I saw several police vehicles in the area; about as many as I've seen in that area for a good long while :)

dO YOU EVER GO TO BED

Originally posted by GJ2004
dO YOU EVER GO TO BED

I won't be, now that I've had broadband installed this morning :D

Originally posted by Abdul
I won't be, now that I've had broadband installed this morning :D
I have to hand it to you abdul I think you are becoming a star

Hi,

There is a curfew in Firvale. As a student teacher at Firvale school, a couple of policemen introduced themselves as the 'curfew area bobbies'. They laid down the law to the pupils, with regards to being out and about at night.

Dean of Disco

Originally posted by DEANOFDISCO
Hi,

There is a curfew in Firvale. As a student teacher at Firvale school, a couple of policemen introduced themselves as the 'curfew area bobbies'. They laid down the law to the pupils, with regards to being out and about at night.

Dean of Disco

oooooooooooo I bet that made them frightened what happens if the "bobbies" see them do they say "stop or Ill ´shout stop again" oooooooo

Originally posted by Abdul
Thanks for the confirmation GJ :D

I did notice a large police presence in the area this morning (several cars and a police van) so I hope they're finally taking action.

I don't think it's a no-go area for the Police. And the Curfew and Dispersal order should help!

Abdul,

If the police need to go in mob-handed to be effective it's essentially a no-go area for a single policeman or traffic warden. I once asked one of the traffic wardens who operated in the Firth Park area why they were so rarely seen in Page Hall or Fir Vale and her reply was that "it was deemed too dangerous and the locals felt they were being picked on because it was an Asian community".

However, - the area's real problem is traffic blight. The council needed an outer ring road and just drew a few lines on the map without any thought as to how this would affect the people living there. On Upwell St. and Rushby St. there are houses whose front doors open directly onto what is a major trunk route. There was originally the intention to have a flyover linking Upwell St. with Herries Road, but the plan was abandoned..after one side of Rushby St. and half of Owler Lane had been demolished.

The area has never recovered from this planning blight and I doubt that any 'Masterplan' can save it from the ever increasing amounts of traffic on it's doorstep, and totally inadequate parking facilities for residents and shops.

Originally posted by Greybeard
There was originally the intention to have a flyover linking Upwell St. with Herries Road, but the plan was abandoned..after one side of Rushby St. and half of Owler Lane had been demolished.

Thanks for your post, Greybeard.

This demolition you mentioned - I'm guessing this is where the Page Hall Medical Centre now is? I ask because that area was open space for as long as I can remember (a couple of decades at least). When were the houses demolished?

Coming back to the Masterplan, I think some of the old housing stock has to go to widen the roads. You can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs, and to demolish rundown houses while improving traffic flow at the same time seems a sensible idea.

I'm aware that residents there won't be too happy to have their houses flattened, but if I lived there, I'd prefer to move than have a busy, noisy, dirty, congested A road on my front doorstep.

Abdul

Yes, - the medical centre is on part of it.

We moved to Firth Park in 1976 and the demolition had happened before then. Agree entirely about the plight of the residents living in those houses, but the traffic planners see only the need to keep traffic moving without any regard to the social consequences. The council could have rehoused all the affected people in the Wensley estate when it was first built and demolished all of the old Rushby and Upwell street housing.

I'm betting the current proposals are again aimed primarily at easing traffic flow and not to relieve the residents of the results of the last cock-up. This time however the people affected by any demolition will be mostly of a tight-knit Asian community who will not be so easy to push around as the people who lived there in the early1970s.

is it true that part of or all of popple street will be demolished

Originally posted by panda79
is it true that part of or all of popple street will be demolished

Probably not, unfortunately.

I know you hate that street, so I recommend you propose they flatten it at the next public meeting ;)

Originally posted by Abdul
Probably not, unfortunately.

I know you hate that street, so I recommend you propose they flatten it at the next public meeting ;)

its only the bottom part of popple street i dont like :)

Originally posted by Abdul
Probably not, unfortunately.

I know you hate that street, so I recommend you propose they flatten it at the next public meeting ;)

Genuine question
I realise some of the properties need demolishing but what about the people who bought the houses because as I recall a few years ago they were only fetching around 15k if they were to get that back where could they buy property for that little now
Or am I too far behind the times

Originally posted by GJ2004
Genuine question
I realise some of the properties need demolishing but what about the people who bought the houses because as I recall a few years ago they were only fetching around 15k if they were to get that back where could they buy property for that little now
Or am I too far behind the times

A lot has changed in the past four years.

Houses that literally couldn't be given away for £20,000 are now changing hands for anything from £60k to £80k and upwards.

Now that the Cannon Hall Pub has gone, the workmen have brought along mobile home type buildings that have been placed on the site and painted.

At first I thought these might be for the workmen to live in as the area gets transformed. I know that Owler Lane, Skinnerthorpe Road, Bagley Road and part of Barnsley Road are to be demolished and re-built but was told last week by a friend that these buildings are to be used as accommodation for the staff at the NG Hospital.

Can anyone shed any light on this?:confused:

We discussed this many months ago on this (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=129787) thread

Since then though Abdul, theres been so many differing idea's flying about . . The land on which the Cannon Hall was, was bought up by one of the shop owners on the front ( I wont say which ). Firstly it was going to be a new Tesco, then flats and now it's a set of unattractive box homes - which it looks like the workmen are going to be living in!?

If this is for NGH staff - surely it needs to be considerably bigger?

Hmmmm...I wasn't aware the land had been bought by a shop owner...I always though it would be accommodation for NGH staff. I agree the boxes there at the moment are unsightly, and I doubt any Medical Student would want to live in them!

I'll do some digging around (no pun intended) and see what I can come up with.

Perhaps 1man may have more info.

Originally posted by Lestat


If this is for NGH staff - surely it needs to be considerably bigger? [/B]

Not really the majority of satff don't actually live at the hospital, there is only a few usually medical students and people who have recently started work there. They have closed some of the accommodation in the hospital recently, so maybe it is for that?

The Final meeting inviting residents to air their views and find out exactly what the plan will mean for them will take place tommorrow ( Sunday ) at Fir Vale community School at 12.00pm.

I'll be there alongside ( hopefully ) many other residents to find out what will be happening. If you want to ask questions or just listen to what is planned, then get yer asses down there too!

Uncle George is planning a fly past with a B52 to help the process.

I trust you will post here once you find out Lestat? :)

The meeting went really well today, huge turnout from all the folk from Page Hall, Skinnerthorpe, Owler Lane, Burngreave etc..

The councillors explained the masterplan and which areas would get demolished, rebuilt and how the rehousing would work. There wasn't much we didn't already know, and people had a chance to look at the plans - discuss with organisers and councillors about what effects it would all have.

Many of the residents rightly opposed the plans in some of the areas as it looked very much like the council will take away homes and build less houses leaving people to fight it out.

Rumours that people would be given less than their market value for their homes and that they would be moved to different areas was quashed and we were promised that we'd be given a structured layout of the plans, detailing everything and told that every resident would be given a house for the one they would be giving up.

Originally posted by Lestat


Rumours that people would be given less than their market value for their homes and that they would be moved to different areas was quashed and we were promised that we'd be given a structured layout of the plans, detailing everything and told that every resident would be given a house for the one they would be giving up.


surely thats got to be a good thing though, first dibs on a new house?

lestat did you think the meting went well, and did you think the room was controlled well or should the people who were trying to shout their opinions over the top of the presentation team been allowed to do so.

I provided the small PA today for this meeting and did get some grief because I would not let certain people speak by turning the microphones off, (this was under direction from the chair person of the meeting not through any of my decisions)

Foxprom, I thought you did an excellent job mate :thumbsup: the sound was clear and loud. The people who were shouting over the presentation team did have a point & I personally thought they should have been given more use of the mike to air their views.

The presentation team were very brief in everything they had to say and could have learned alot more by listening to the people rather than giving them 4 main questions and dancing around the questions raised.

Like I said, you did a great job, the atmosphere was very heated and it must have been difficult but you pulled through ok!:thumbsup:

cheers for the compliments, In an ideal situation the questions/comments form the floor should have been taken and if not answered on site at least been responded to by the officers present at a later date.

I was briefed from the beginning that issues might be raised and that the turn it off button might be needed.

as an outsider to the area i can sympathise with the home/business owners who do not want ot lose out but can also see that improvements to roads, homes and living space could be much needed in parts of the area.

Lets just hope that the funding is secured and that an action plan to benfit the majority of people can be achieved.

In case you missed it i am the elegant slim body that was hiding behind the microphone stands

Chris

Originally posted by Lestat
Since then though Abdul, theres been so many differing idea's flying about . . The land on which the Cannon Hall was, was bought up by one of the shop owners on the front ( I wont say which ). Firstly it was going to be a new Tesco, then flats and now it's a set of unattractive box homes - which it looks like the workmen are going to be living in!?

One of the project planners confirmed to me at yesterdays' meeting that Tesco have indeed purchased a plot of land in that area to build one of their small express / metro stores - I'm not sure whether it be the former site of the Cannon Hall or the petrol station next to it.

Originally posted by Lestat
Foxprom, I thought you did an excellent job mate :thumbsup: the sound was clear and loud. The people who were shouting over the presentation team did have a point & I personally thought they should have been given more use of the mike to air their views.

I agree with the comments.

The PA was professionally done, but the floor should have had more time to ask questions.

I felt this was the first time I had any confidence in the masterplanning process since I first heard back in September.
Its true that we didnt learn much new, but it was the first time Ive seen some real transparancy from the panel. They even brought in Joanne lady to speak.
I feel that we could do with pre-empting this 'community-led planning approach' which will be set up and having people already in place to meet them when they get around to it.
There will ( I hope ), be no riding roughshod if we steer them every step of the way.
At the end of the day, there is some money, we need to tell them how best to use it.
The microphone useage was seamless. I didnt know you were behind there.

so is popple street one of the parts to be demolished ?

Originally posted by panda79
so is popple street one of the parts to be demolished ?

I think the demolition of Popple Street was on the original plan, but after residents aired their views, no final decision has been made.

At the meeting, residents informed the panel they hadn't been provided with enough information to make a decision.

Although residents have been told their house may be demolished, they haven't been told:

1) When demolition will start
2) How much they'll get for their existing house
3) If they'll get a new house
4) Where they'll get a new house (some residents do not want to leave the area)
5) Where they'll live during the demolition / rebuild

Simply put, they want to be provided with a house if theirs is demolished.

Failing that, they want their existing houses modernised to a suitable standard.

Failing that, they want their houses to be left alone.

haven't they started already? its like Cone City down there?

Originally posted by Abdul
Although residents have been told their house may be demolished, they haven't been told:

1) When demolition will start
2) How much they'll get for their existing house
3) If they'll get a new house
4) Where they'll get a new house (some residents do not want to leave the area)
5) Where they'll live during the demolition / rebuild

Simply put, they want to be provided with a house if theirs is demolished.

Failing that, they want their existing houses modernised to a suitable standard.

Failing that, they want their houses to be left alone.

Thats exactly it Abdul! What the people are miffed off about is the simple fact that the council is making all these 'Masterplans' and hasn't thought about anything other then drawing nice plans about the future of the area.

All the people want are some very simple questions answered on paper - signed and sealed by these councillors. If people are willing to give up their homes, shops, businesses for this 'masterplan' then the least they deserve is a promise that they will have somewhere to live after it's all done.

The councillors, from what I saw at the meeting - seemed to be dancing around this question, not giving any clear answers and finally planned another meeting.

knowing the council could be a white elephant like every thing else thy build
ha ha plenty of white elephants in this area.
the only thing id like to see changed is the lollypop woman at the top of barnsly road, it holds traffic up in the morning something terrible. a bridge would be ideal.

Originally posted by Abdul
One of the project planners confirmed to me at yesterdays' meeting that Tesco have indeed purchased a plot of land in that area to build one of their small express / metro stores - I'm not sure whether it be the former site of the Cannon Hall or the petrol station next to it.

It's going to be where the ESSO petrol station used to be Abdul, I saw it on the plans.

They also said that they were planning on building new homes on the Earl Marshal area . . does anyone know whereabouts? do they mean where the flats are now? :confused:

Originally posted by Lestat
They also said that they were planning on building new homes on the Earl Marshal area . . does anyone know whereabouts? do they mean where the flats are now? :confused:


Yes, those homes will be on the site of those existing flats, behind the old Esso petrol station.

I asked they if were going to build the homes on the field of Fir Vale school, but they said they would not.

Hi,
I do not live in Fir Vale and I was just wondering if people, perhaps Abdul, could clarify a few things for me.
1.) Exactly what do the plans involve, are they demolishing houses in order to extend roads? Are they going to be renovating any areas of anything like that?
2.) How long have these plans been in the pipeline?
3.) My research shows that £150 million is going to be put into this scheme, do you think this is money well spent?

Thank you for your help
Ellie x

Ellie

Thank you for the PM and contact details; I will be in touch shortly.

In the meantime, this thread offers some points of view on the subject:

Plans to demolish/rebuild Robey St, Popple St and Wensley (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?postid=224672)

Anyone fancy talkin about the masterplan? There are updates to this now.

Can you tell us what these updates are?

I heard it wasn't going ahead, then I heard it was.

I would like to know what's happening, but as I don't live in the immediate area, I have to find out by other means.

Originally posted by Abdul
Can you tell us what these updates are?

I heard it wasn't going ahead, then I heard it was.

I would like to know what's happening, but as I don't live in the immediate area, I have to find out by other means.

Yes, the masterplan continues but in an altered form. Project groups were set up on Tuesday, comprised of residents who wish to be involved in putting a package together that will change the fabric of the area. Most of us will be looking at refurbishment of the terraces, how to improve the streets and identifying potential areas for creating green space, car parking etc. This seems to be the real deal, as I heard David Shepherd speak about other pathfinder areas, some of which were radically changing the layout of existing houses. For me, I have a personal mission to see that our properties are 'future proofed'. By this I mean refurbs to standards that won't mean demolition comes up again in twenty years because of a bad job done now.
The downside is that only Page Hall has recieved a reprieve. The project groups for Earl Marshall flats and for Skinnerthorpe road will be helping the already deciced masterplan of demolition, as I understand it. I will find it very difficult to see one set of residents getting new roofs and another having to move house. However I feel that if enough people commit to dragging compulsory purchase through the courts, then 'they'll' drop the idea over costs.
The other project groups will be woodside/Catherine St. and Spital Hill.
Page Hall is saved apparently, whoever thought!
My concern of the moment is that the 'Asian' community were barely represented at the meeting. These plans effect everyone. I want to see input from all groups in the area, not just your Anglo-Saxons! This comes at a time where distrust may be building between groups. I see the regeneration as a neutral subject politically, as far as PH is concerned and could be one of the best things that happened to the community. My community.
Phew.

Its not going to be easy to future proof those houses - they are well well out of date and demolition is overdue. The problem is the proportions inside. If they want families in there long term, it makes it hard because they are not big enough inside in many cases, not enough parking and the layout attracts crime.

If you want future proof, its demolition and rebuild to 21st century specs.

Originally posted by ferret
[ My concern of the moment is that the 'Asian' community were barely represented at the meeting. These plans effect everyone. I want to see input from all groups in the area, not just your Anglo-Saxons! This comes at a time where distrust may be building between groups. I see the regeneration as a neutral subject politically, as far as PH is concerned and could be one of the best things that happened to the community. My community.
Phew.

They'll stay away and then can claim they were never consulted - perhaps you should get the steering group to do them a presentation at the local mosque or community gathering. Hopefully the regeneration plans will have some parking spaces allocated for local businesses as at the moment its getting bloody dangerous at Fir Vale and Page Hall when the shops are open and they park three abreast on the road..I'm sure if they could get parked safely they would...

Originally posted by Internetowl
Hopefully the regeneration plans will have some parking spaces allocated for local businesses as at the moment its getting bloody dangerous at Fir Vale and Page Hall when the shops are open and they park three abreast on the road..I'm sure if they could get parked safely they would...

I've seen cars double parked on the footway at Fir Vale and Page Hall but never on the carriageway, :D but there is a lot of illegal parking there on what is supposed to be Sheffield's outer ring road.

Many of the commercial properties on Owler Lane/Barnsley Rd. in Fir Vale were empty for long periods during the late 80s/early 90s and the council could have bought them up quite cheaply; even at that time it was clear the junction there would require major surgery involving demolition, and now they have a crisis on their hands that with a little foresight could have been avoided.

Originally posted by Internetowl
................................at the moment its getting bloody dangerous at Fir Vale and Page Hall when the shops are open and they park three abreast on the road..I'm sure if they could get parked safely they would...

Or alternatively they could use the bus like a lot of other people do when their employer doesn't provide parking, or there are no local parking facilities.

To drive in Fir Vale - you need to pass the '5 point Fir Vale' driving test:

1. When lights go red - you go.

2. Double yellow lines - please park here.

3. Footpaths - for cars to park on. Don't worry about people, they can squeeze through. Prams can always go around you on the road!

4. Any pizza shop - park here, even though it's a main road. When someone beeps for you to move car, exit pizza shop with a slice in your hand and shout at them to f**k off. Remember - you own the road.

5. If you see a friend in another car going the opposite way - please stop your car and have a chat, making sure you block all traffic behind you whilst you have a conversation. Similarly your friend should do the same.

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
Its not going to be easy to future proof those houses - they are well well out of date and demolition is overdue. The problem is the proportions inside. If they want families in there long term, it makes it hard because they are not big enough inside in many cases, not enough parking and the layout attracts crime.

If you want future proof, its demolition and rebuild to 21st century specs.

One thing we are looking at will be two into one conversions. These will make four bedroom houses for a family, with sitting room and dining room and bigger kitchen.
The thing about terraces is that they are endlessly adaptable and have been altered many times in their lives, to suit the needs of the day.
Future proofing is perfectly possible with these houses and is cheaper than rebuild. People will therefore not be left out of pocket.
I love my area and talk to all my neighbours, I am lucky to have such a wide range of opinion to listen to, rather than getting stuck with the Western Sheffield stereotype. Apologies.

Originally posted by Lestat
To drive in Fir Vale - you need to pass the '5 point Fir Vale' driving test:

1. When lights go red - you go.

2. Double yellow lines - please park here.

3. Footpaths - for cars to park on. Don't worry about people, they can squeeze through. Prams can always go around you on the road!

4. Any pizza shop - park here, even though it's a main road. When someone beeps for you to move car, exit pizza shop with a slice in your hand and shout at them to f**k off. Remember - you own the road.

5. If you see a friend in another car going the opposite way - please stop your car and have a chat, making sure you block all traffic behind you whilst you have a conversation. Similarly your friend should do the same.

LOL.! The rules are definately different around there and occasionally irritating. Though I find that if I just take a chill pill and relax instead of rushing around I find life more interesting
The parking/shopping issue is being tackled in the masterplan.
It is difficult, however, when you have half of the other side of sheffield driving thru on their way to the M1 !

Originally posted by Greybeard
I've seen cars double parked on the footway at Fir Vale and Page Hall but never on the carriageway, :D but there is a lot of illegal parking there on what is supposed to be Sheffield's outer ring road.

Many of the commercial properties on Owler Lane/Barnsley Rd. in Fir Vale were empty for long periods during the late 80s/early 90s and the council could have bought them up quite cheaply; even at that time it was clear the junction there would require major surgery involving demolition, and now they have a crisis on their hands that with a little foresight could have been avoided.

That is crazy. Why don't these people use joined up thinking? I can never work out why.
I used to believe in conspiracy theory; but I is changin over to cock up theory the older I get and since living in Sheff!

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
Its not going to be easy to future proof those houses - they are well well out of date and demolition is overdue. The problem is the proportions inside. If they want families in there long term, it makes it hard because they are not big enough inside in many cases, not enough parking and the layout attracts crime.

If you want future proof, its demolition and rebuild to 21st century specs.


Originally posted by ferret
One thing we are looking at will be two into one conversions. These will make four bedroom houses for a family, with sitting room and dining room and bigger kitchen.
The thing about terraces is that they are endlessly adaptable and have been altered many times in their lives, to suit the needs of the day.
Future proofing is perfectly possible with these houses and is cheaper than rebuild. People will therefore not be left out of pocket.

I'm in agreement with 1man here.

Ferret - although making the houses larger will be good for the families who are fortunate enough to be chosen to stay, it will mean displacement for 50% of the locals.

I know that many of the people do want to leave the area, so has this been taken into account?

Secondly, as has been mentioned, parking on those streets is dreadful. It's not uncommon for one family in a tiny terraced house to have two or three vehicles, leading to extraordinary parking problems so unless the houses are flattened and replaced by three-bed semis with garage and off road parking, most of the existing problems will still remain.

The streets are usually full of litter too... how will that be resolved?

Originally posted by Abdul
I'm in agreement with 1man here.

Ferret - although making the houses larger will be good for the families who are fortunate enough to be chosen to stay, it will mean displacement for 50% of the locals.

I know that many of the people do want to leave the area, so has this been taken into account?

Secondly, as has been mentioned, parking on those streets is dreadful. It's not uncommon for one family in a tiny terraced house to have two or three vehicles, leading to extraordinary parking problems so unless the houses are flattened and replaced by three-bed semis with garage and off road parking, most of the existing problems will still remain.

The streets are usually full of litter too... how will that be resolved?

How did you get 50%? As I understand it, there is new build happening up Upwell St. And as I've said, there is demolishment in skinnerthorpe etc, that I am really worried about those residents feelings, as noone has had any counselling offrered them on moving, which is, in fact, the second highest stressful item on the psychologists' lists. And that is if you have chosen to move!!
Some people do want to leave, but I feel mmany will change thier minds when they get involved and see what is possible.
The majority in Page Hall do not want to leave. This is a vast issue and that is why I say again that any interested party ought get themselves on these project groups and help steer this behmoth to get their pov over!
Parking is the best I've ever seen anywhere. I always park outside my house. Something nI've never been able to do in all the othe rplacfes I've lived.
Litter is the responsibility of the community to not drop it. Tho street cleaning is undertaken on a regular basis, people do drop stuff and makes me very upset that some people have such litt;le respect. Hopefully, with more people getting involved and having a say on how the community develops, we can address some of these things on the nway.
Respect.

Slightly off-topic, but did anyone see this (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,6903,1539397,00.html) article in the Observer at the weekend? Maybe in a few years time everyone will be crying out for those teeny terraces after all!

Originally posted by feargal
Slightly off-topic, but did anyone see this (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/cash/story/0,6903,1539397,00.html) article in the Observer at the weekend? Maybe in a few years time everyone will be crying out for those teeny terraces after all!

Not off topic at all and I did see it. This is more info for the pot right now. The whole Pathfinder programme across England has many many people questioning what its all really about. But I've got almost sick of arguing things and want to get on with the process now. Evolution rather than revolution.
These terraces, while not being every family's idea of home anymore, are perfect for some people, like me. While one of my neighbours raised a family of five children in one many years ago, for me coming out of flat living I'm over the moon to have so much space and a garden. I can't be the only one who thinks that.

You're right Ferret. It seems that one of the biggest problems is how to accommodate large families in what are essentially not large family houses! Maybe it'd be easier to leave the terraces as they are (for low-occupancy), and create some lovely new family houses with gardens and better parking, etc for higher occupancy. Or is this what's supposed to be happening on the huge former British Gas site at Upwell Street?

Apologies if it's been covered, I haven't read the entire thread and all the links in it!;)

As far as I know, thats the plan. It's also the plan for Skinnerthorpe Rd! The council's brief will be to secure a mixture of housing for all needs, some for sale and some rented.
I'm goin ome. Cheers Feargal.

Originally posted by ferret
How did you get 50%? As I understand it, there is new build happening up Upwell St. And as I've said, there is demolishment in skinnerthorpe etc, that I am really worried about those residents feelings, as noone has had any counselling offrered them on moving, which is, in fact, the second highest stressful item on the psychologists' lists. And that is if you have chosen to move!!

I estimated about 50% displacement because firstly there are a couple of hundred houses on Skinnerthorpe that will be demolished...to be replaced by a couple of dozen! And those little terraced houses may be knocked two into one as well, so one out of families will go there.

Onto other matters, did anyone receive a flyer from Tesco, regarding the new store they wish to build on the site of the former Esso petrol station? They're inviting responses from all residents in the area.

On the one hand, I'm pleased that locals will have somewhere to buy FRESH produce (!), that area is already at saturation point for foodstores. There were as many as 8 foodstores in the Page Hall area alone at one point (two have closed due to the competition) and there are several more in the Fir Vale area already.

Although Tesco say their plan is to employ about 30 local people, I am sure this will put many local stores out of business, after which Tesco will be free to charge what they like (they're a business, not a charity).

And despite having as many as 15 parking spaces available, and having deliveries away from the main road, I am sure that the congestion near that bottleneck junction will get much worse.

You may well be right about that nasty multinational. Ideally I don't want to see any supermarket, I would like a wider range of local shops.
As said, demolition of Skinnerthorpe is a bad business. But I am talking about the streets of Page Hall. As far as residents are concerned, nothing should be happening to the number of 'units' as planners call homes, without their say-so.
This is why it annoys me that there are people who I have talked to who seem interested but don't turn up to meetings. The future is in everyone's hands if we choose to take it.

Originally posted by ferret
This is why it annoys me that there are people who I have talked to who seem interested but don't turn up to meetings.

I'm surprised that this is the case.

Some meetings held at Fir Vale School have been attended by hundreds of residents. However, these have been held at convenient times, such as at the weekend.

Is it possible that such low turnouts are due to the meetings being held at unsuitable times, such as late on a weekday evening?

The last meeting was Two weeks ago on a tuesday between 6 and 8.
This is such an important issue. If I, (as I have been) was facing the demolition of my house I would call it a priority and make some time.
Its not just attendance at meetings though, its just somje of the general ' we can't do anything about it ' and ' they'll just do whatever they want in the end so there's no point' ambivilance to the issue.
I am surprised that some people still see it this way considering most houses signed up to a petition and saw it upheld at cabinet meeting.
We have a once in a lifetime opportunity here that needs grabbing with both hands.

Originally posted by kirky
the area should be nuked............

I agree Kirky give it five years and you wont be able to tell the difference between the old and the proposed new Fir vale.

Originally posted by spud
I agree Kirky give it five years and you wont be able to tell the difference between the old and the proposed new Fir vale.

Whats that supposed to mean??

Originally posted by ferret
Whats that supposed to mean??


It means there will be no noticeable difference, in other words instead of being an old run down slum area it will be a new modern slum area.

Originally posted by spud
It means there will be no noticeable difference, in other words instead of being an old run down slum area it will be a new modern slum area.

So what exactly leads you to this opinion, pray?

Like the name Spud, he lives with his head underground. :loopy:

This is a dusty old thread.