So I am on a mission to sort my dogs out (hence the post about barking too). I have had dogs, horses, cats etc most of my life but am having a real battle at the mo and would appreciate help! As I am 6 months pregnant I am probably not as resilient as I would normally be. So the story goes.....last year a small (but surprisingly troublesome) terrier was found on Abbeydale Rd by my friend. We tried everything to find her owner, but it appeared nobody was missing her or wanted her back (we since learned why!). So we kept her. I could not bear to hand her to the warden as she is naughty and not the most attractive so didnt fancy her chances given their destroy policy. We love her dearly now and she has come on leaps and bounds. She used to run away but doesnt do that now and is a real affectionate little treasure these days- a totally different dog. When my husband was ill last week she laid in bed beside him with her head on his head-bless her.

However, we have remaining issues. One is straining and barking at other dogs on the lead (v sociable off the lead) which then sets my big dog off and becomes a real struggle-esp as I am pregnant. Both have control collars and harnesses so I can hold them but its hardly calm controlled behaviour. My big dog can be distracted by food but she is too anxious to care about food. At the moment I do my best to walk swiftly by but would like to stop this habit. I think its anxiety/defence not aggression but its still not ideal.

However, the biggest problem is that now and then (much less frequent these days) if she spots a man she doesnt like in the park (normally a dodgy looking man to be fair) she charges at him, and barks at his heels, and has been known to nip his trousers/shoes/heel. Eeeek! :o She is small and fast and v difficult to catch when this happens, and recall despite being fairly good, goes out the window. Of course the dodgy looking man in question is understandably horrified and resorts to swearing, swiping her with an umberella, stick, carrier bag (or me but just usually the swearing) which of course aggravates the situation. If they are nice to her she wags her tail and rolls over but if they are dog lovers this tends not to happen anyway. I have to point out that most people she ignores or runs up to wagging her tail. I think she only goes for people she feels threatened by. She is sociable and loves to play with other dogs. We could just keep her on a lead to be on the safe side but as this happens so rarely and she is such an active playful dog it seems a shame. Still its shocking behaviour, and totally mortifies me.....This week it happened again (having not happened in ages) and apologised profusely and the man said I just needed to get her under control. I asked if he had any advice and he said 'Yeah a bullet in the head'. Nice man.

We have signed up for a new class with a man known for working with problem dogs, so hopefully we may be able to tackle it but he has said this sort of problem is very difficult to combat.

Again any help gladly appreciated!! :confused:

Anyone been able to solve a similar problem?

ok i owuld say when he does this go up to him (by this time the dodgy man is looking at you totally gone out) and say the following GOOD BOY! give him a treat fuss him put him on the lead and walk away when your far enough away get him to sit and anothe treat and again GOOD BOY!. this way your telling him its good to protect you but he will learn to bark at the stranger then come back to you for his praise for being such a brave dog.

I think you may be onto something Lacey as interestingly enough I have noticed that when she is looking at someone suspiciously and I reassure or praise her she tends to forget about it.

Getting cross definitely makes it worse, as as you say it is reinforcing the threat. One of the problems is she is so fast and this tends to happen with people in the distance that by the time I have got over there with my pregnant belly it has all kicked off! Maybe I need to be calmer and keep my voice reassuring when I get there, but I am worried that the man will be even more cross that I am praising my dog for attacking him and that I will be reinforcing the behaviour :confused: However, reflecting on this I will definitely try a calmer softer approach in this heated situation. If we could get her to wear a muzzle that would stop any threat of her nipping somone in the meantime (I worry about the potential serious consequence of this which I am well aware of) but she just pulls it off.

i know what you mean as some people are like that, they think dogs should be on the lead all the time and god forbid a dog should never ever approach a stranger unless it wants to see how their leg tastes!!
Far aside form the fact the dog may just want to say HI!.

again the muzzle is telling the dog its doing something completely wrong unless the dog is dangerous obviously you can get fabric muzzles though which are a bit better than the huge plastic mesh ones

Sam - what do you mean by a control collar?

I notice you said she was in bed with your husband. If she is exhibiting this sort of behaviour she needs some chill out time.
By allowing her in your bed or on your knee, you are reinforcing this aggression - she is seeing you as her's to protect. The first course of action should be to stop this privalege until she is more reliable and then you can gradually allow her back onto furniture as long as her good behaviour persists. Believe me, stoppng the cuddling on your knee or in bed will be harder on you than it will be on her.

Telling her off is clearly not an option, she doesn't hear what you're saying, she hears a low growl which reinforces the threat, as you said.

However I wouldn't reassure her either. If you reassure her, it makes her think that there is something to worry about, it'll result in a quiet dog temporarily, but repetition of the behaviour.

Does she enjoy chasing things, playing ball, etc?
I'd suggest that if she's off her lead and runs upto someone barking. Apologise quickly and run away! Pull out a ball, call her name repeatedly and excitedly and run in the opposite direction.
When she leaves him and comes to you (as suddenly, she has nobody to protect and you seem so much more exciting) then praise her and throw a ball for her, or play with her in some way.

Suddenly, the presence of strangers means you get more exciting and she gets a game/treat. As time goes on, you won't have to run away, you can produce a ball/treat and call her excitedly and she should know what you're going to do.
Eventually, you should be able to simply call her away and trust her to come back to you.

Please - ONLY praise her when she is with you!! Try not to go upto her, as it prevents her from coming away from the stranger herself, but only praise and reward her when she has done what you wanted.

As for the lead aggression, this is something many dogs suffer from. Don't put a muzzle on her unless it's really, really necessary. Try taking her out on her own and getting her used to meeting other dogs while she's on her lead. Distract her from them if necessary. Produce something of high value to her and only allow her to have it if she focuses on you until the other dog has passed. It'll take some time to get her completely focussing on you but if my 12 year old can learn to do it...

again the muzzle is telling the dog its doing something completely wrong unless the dog is dangerous obviously you can get fabric muzzles though which are a bit better than the huge plastic mesh ones

Muzzles add to aggression because the dog is now completely unable to defend itself if need be so becomes nervous and stressed - not particularly because it thinks it's a symbol of bad behaviour.

we are not planning on using a muzzle. We tried one once as a trainer suggested it to stop us being sued as all the laws suggest (he said either keep her on the lead or use a muzzle- we didnt want to keep her on the lead so we tried a muzzle for when she was off the lead which many dogs adapted to- but she hated it and that was that).

When I say a control collar as I mean a Canny Collar, which Chesterfield RSPCA now train and rehome all dogs with. Its better than a halti (which make me sad to see when they mangle the dogs face up the way they do sometimes) as they work very much like a Hackamore. We use it for our big dog as he is strong and whilst he rarely pulls it is better than yanking at his throat with a collar. Our small dog just wears a Stop-Pull harness, which doesnt do much but is better than yanking on a collar as the weight is distrubuted evenly and gives less leverage.

She does not sleep on the furniture or beds as we understand the whole hierarchy issue. Both dogs sleep in their own bed in the utility room. however, my poor husband was so sick last week i think she was concerned about him. However, this was a one off and the problem has been with her since we got her. She was incredibly naughty then, and I am pleased with the progress we have made with her which suggests we are not doing everything wrong.

Finding incentives is the most difficult thing. She is not interested in treats, or toys when she is anxious. She is not greedy or a retriever like our bigger dog which makes training him so much easier. We can easily distract him from other dogs on the lead with something tasty or fun. But she is so anxious she doesnt care. So far I cant find anything which distracts her from other dogs when she is on the lead. I have tried socialising her with friendly dogs but she goes for them (kind of how we ended up with her as my friend who found her could not have her in her house as she was attacking her other dogs).

Admittedly toys are mildly more interesting than treats for her. We have a ball launcher which sometimes interests her (though she wont bring it back) so I will try waving a ball around excitedly when she runs off towards someone as this can work when she is not in pursuit of somone. The problem is once she is in pursuit she seems to go completely deaf (a trainer told us this is because certain senses such as hearing shut when they are focused- which is why if their nose is engaged their ears seem not to be). I will try this though. Anything is worth a go :)

I have another idea but I'm going to have to take my two mutts out now as they've woken up and are destroying my house!

Back soon :)

Thanks Lotti. Have just PM'd you! :) :)

I'm back! The mutts are tired out (and can I say thank you to the couple who provided the energetic border collie to chase on the Bolehills) so I have a few minutes!

First of all... I've ordered the book 'Click to Calm' so may be able to offer more advice on this once I've read it (then it's on loan to someone else but you're welcome to it after that!)

My idea (I've not used this yet, but logically it should work...) - do you clicker train? If not, obtain a clicker - one of the i-click types: http://www.clickertraining.com/store/?item=clickerkits These clickers, I have discovered are clickable by dog! (Takara told me)

Introduce her to this clicker by 'click and treat'ing several times until, when you click, the dog looks for the treat. You will need to keep this up as clicker training is about using an 'operant conditioner' - the clicker - and the dog needs to want to work for the clicker, rather than whatever food you have.

There are games you can play to encourage your dog to work out what will make you click. Take a look at Karen Pryor's site for more info: www.clickertraining.com

Teach her the 'quiet' (or any word you like really) command by holding out the clicker so that she can press the button and make it click. You won't need to reinforce this as she is clicking her own achievement!

When she barks/lunges at strangers, at the door, at other dogs etc. tell her 'quiet' and hold out the clicker for her. She can't click the clicker and bark so this will be a distraction for her. If you can make the clicker mean enough to her (and there are plenty of ways to do this) then she will much rather click that, than bark at a stranger.

That way she is rewarding herself for being quiet. (give her some sort of reward every so often - the clicker isn't enough on it's own every time although it is for the majority of attempts once she knows it's a good thing).

When she knows that 'quiet' means 'look at me and and be quiet' you can start to remove the clicker as a lure and click it yourself when she looks towards you quietly.

Don't use these clickers: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dog-Training-Multi-Clicker-with-Training-Booklet_W0QQitemZ140104054104QQcategoryZ43426QQrdZ 1QQcmdZViewItem
It is the raised button on the i-click that makes them so easy for dogs to click.

And finally - do not leave the clicker anywhere your dog can reach - when you return she'll have crunched it to bits whilst telling herself what a good girl she is! (I speak from experience!)

This is only a method I've cooked up myself and am yet to use it (going to use it for when Takara wants to rip the postman's legs off) so will let you know how it goes when I try it.

Wow. This looks good. Dont know much about clicker training though I have heard a bit. Will have to look into it :)

Any help you need - you know where I am! I love clicker training - there are people who put it down but it's a fantastic way to train a dog as it's just one big game!

Clickers are used in training support dogs, show dogs, agility dogs, obedience competing dogs and many more - clickers aren't allowed in obedience and agility competitions but they're not needed once a behaviour is learned so it's not like you have to rely on one constantly.
Once you've practiced getting your timing right, they just pinpoint the behaviour a lot faster than your voice could so the dog knows exactly what it's done to receive a reward.

Oh SamMT this sounds sooooo like my dog it's uncanny.

We got a nutty terrier about 3 years ago from Sheffield RSPCA and he is still not trustworthy off the lead. Consequently, we have a frustrated dog with far more excess energy than is good for him and a frustrated owner who would love to let him off the lead to run and play.

Clive (not our choice of name but it does suit him :hihi: ) is certainly 'anxious aggressive' and is of the belief that if he gets the first nip in then that will be ok.

Let off the lead he charges at full pelt towards anything he fancies (dogs, cyclists, joggers, small children, footballers) that is a moving target, even if it just a small speck in the distance. Recall is useless. Shouting him back is useless. Running the other way and screaming excitedly is useless ( and makes me look a prat). Waving a stick/ball/selection of delicious titbits/small furry animal is useless. He is blinkered. Deaf. Oblivious.

Therefore, he is also out of control and to me that does not allow for him to be off the lead. I hate it and so does he. We live near Graves Park and my dearest wish is to be able to go there to doggy Alton Towers but his behaviour makes him untrustworthy.

He also has an alarming tendency to occasionally lunge out ON the lead and have a little nip of a passer by (always men). We too, have had the 'your dog needs to be put down, why cant you keep it under control' experience with (understandably) affronted male members of the public and no, it's not nice.


You have my sympathy, believe me!

Msbehavin - do you exercise him in tennis courts? When T was in season and was a nightmare if not allowed to go out and have a run I took her to some tennis courts as they're usually fenced off.

I really feel for you (I'd hate to have to keep mine on leads all the time), perhaps a tennis courts would be a good place to start socialising him with people who are willing to help you out?

Nice to hear its not just me Msbehavin :) Clive's story made me smile (as did his name!!) but you also have my sympathies. It can be such a nightmare, and can make you feel such an idiot. Sometimes it feels like whatever you do you look a bit of pillock. I think terriers specialise in this type of behaviour. My bigger dog is so much easier to train as he responds to incentives (which i have found with most other bigger hounds) but we have the deaf oblivious issue with our terrier too!

We met a man in Graves Park a while ago who had a dog which previously had a serious aggression problem and coudl not be let off the lead for fear of attacking anything that moved- it was quite a big breed known for aggression too which didnt help. However, it was happily playing with other dogs in the park and seemed transformed by this specialist chap in Barnsley who we are going to see soon. If you want his number PM me.

Thanks for making me feel better. Validation is a wonderful thing :thumbsup: