Have standards fallen these days, the gap between decent and indecent seems to be blurred these days, so much more is tolerated now, and that's ok as long as their is still respect

Well, I adhere to the old maxim that consenting adults can do what they like between themselves as long as they don't do it in public and frighten the horses.

There's a saying about the definition of perversion - "I'm adventurous, you're kinky, he's a pervert" and I think that with sexual behaviour, like so many things today, there is no longer a set of groundrules to go by and so you have to rely on your own moral and ethical compass to tell you what's right and wrong.

Seriously - it all comes down to Consenting adults and not involving anyone or anything that is incapable of informed consent.

Well, I adhere to the old maxim that consenting adults can do what they like between themselves as long as they don't do it in public and frighten the horses.

There's a saying about the definition of perversion - "I'm adventurous, you're kinky, he's a pervert" and I think that with sexual behaviour, like so many things today, there is no longer a set of groundrules to go by and so you have to rely on your own moral and ethical compass to tell you what's right and wrong.

Seriously - it all comes down to Consenting adults and not involving anyone or anything that is incapable of informed consent.

and would you say persuasion or coercion is exploitation?

and would you say persuasion or coercion is exploitation?

Well, persuasion is one end of a spectrum that goes through to coercion, I guess.

Persuasion is 'carrot' based and provided people are happy with the deal struck I don't see an issue.

Coercion is clearly where someone ISN'T happy with the arrangement - so there I'd say that coercion is exploitation.

Wasn't it little Johnny who defined "beautiful" as "indecent" when asked by his teacher?

Well, persuasion is one end of a spectrum that goes through to coercion, I guess.

Persuasion is 'carrot' based and provided people are happy with the deal struck I don't see an issue.

Coercion is clearly where someone ISN'T happy with the arrangement - so there I'd say that coercion is exploitation.

Joe I so wish you had come on the topic about porn last night as we didn't appear to get anywhere and your succinct views were very much needed.

It's difficult to know when one is being persuaded or coerced, so I would tend to play safe

Joe I so wish you had come on the topic about porn last night as we didn't appear to get anywhere and your succinct views were very much needed.

It's difficult to know when one is being persuaded or coerced, so I would tend to play safe

Assuming you're of 'sound mind and body' this is one of those areas where people have to look to their own hearts and make a personal judgement on whether they feel that their character / soul / whatever you want to call your inner being is being disrespected or damaged by what you're witnessing or participating in.

Some of the best legal minds in the world have tried to define obscenity, indecency and pornnography over the years and haven't progressed much beyond 'I knows what it is when I sees it'. :)

It can be a difficult call. Respect has a part to play, along with good old fashioned love and affection. I think if someone has genuine feelings and respect for someone, it's unlikely (though not impossible, I guess) that they would coerce the object of their affections. After all, if nothing else, that would be a disrespectful and selfish act.

To be honest, it's a complicated area - even in these 4 paragraphs there are a truckload of subjective statements, which someone with a different moral and ethical outlook to my own could drive a coach and horses through.

Morals and ethics. Definitely.
It brings up the question of altruism and all the rest of it too.

I think we're a nation of oversexualising our kids, and sometimes I do wonder if some people are mentally prepared to take certain steps within relationships. Yet, with the added pressure from the general public to say "this is the norm" propels and cloud individual judgements of their own situation.

Assuming you're of 'sound mind and body' this is one of those areas where people have to look to their own hearts and make a personal judgement on whether they feel that their character / soul / whatever you want to call your inner being is being disrespected or damaged by what you're witnessing or participating in.

Some of the best legal minds in the world have tried to define obscenity, indecency and pornnography over the years and haven't progressed much beyond 'I knows what it is when I sees it'. :)

It can be a difficult call. Respect has a part to play, along with good old fashioned love and affection. I think if someone has genuine feelings and respect for someone, it's unlikely (though not impossible, I guess) that they would coerce the object of their affections. After all, if nothing else, that would be a disrespectful and selfish act.

To be honest, it's a complicated area - even in these 4 paragraphs there are a truckload of subjective statements, which someone with a different moral and ethical outlook to my own could drive a coach and horses through.


Even in those four paragraphs there is a lot of wisdom and maturity, I shall definitely remember or make a note of your comments, I do not want to be in a situation where I feel I am denying someone, I would rather whover does what they want and "include me out", I don't want to be in that atmosphere because to be with someone I want to be comfortable and have fun

Have standards fallen these days, the gap between decent and indecent seems to be blurred these days, so much more is tolerated now, and that's ok as long as their is still respect

I'm interested in your post cressida, but it seems a little vague - can you explain a little further what you have in mind please?

I'm interested in your post cressida, but it seems a little vague - can you explain a little further what you have in mind please?

Just wanting opinions on what everyone classes as decent or indecent, don't want give any guidelines as I am curious to know what peeps will say without being too prompted

Just wanting opinions on what everyone classes as decent or indecent, don't want give any guidelines as I am curious to know what peeps will say without being too prompted

Do you mean in terms of dress? Morals? Sexual behaviour? Give me a clue, or ask me a question...

the biggest problem in society is that we are desensitised to most things.

as a child, my parents looked in horror at programmes even mentioning homosexuality, i was almost forbidden to watch Scum whilst @ school.
yet we could watch Carry on films with inuendo all day if we wanted.Hooror movies etc were banned as too shocking, yet you can see things today on "normal" tv that are just as horrific.

these days most things that are graphically shown are now publicly accepted.

i personally ,find that artists bisected cow obscene and a disgrace, yet i have no qualms in watching "horror" or gory movies with graphic scenes of decapitation.

i have no problems with skimpy clothes,thongs on show etc and yet would be repulsed by seeing people urinating or defecating in public.

the only correct way is YOUR way. if you don't like it or want it ,then change it or get away from it.

Do you mean in terms of dress? Morals? Sexual behaviour? Give me a clue, or ask me a question...

comment on any aspect that grabs you

Indecent things - the way that money is seen as a judge of a person's worth and the way in which some people persue it at the expense of the things that really matter - relationships, family, friends.

Decent things - good food, good wine, love, laughter, children, honesty, fresh air and blue skies.

Have standards fallen these days, the gap between decent and indecent seems to be blurred these days, so much more is tolerated now, and that's ok as long as their is still respect

hear hear! the otehr day i was in my office at work on a conference call and the a couple of members of the un-delightfull mhall security were conversing along the lines of "he had 2 birds in one night! bet he had right sweaty b**lo*ks!" at the time i was talking with a middle aged lady about raising funds. needless to day i put a complaint in! in a pub this may have been funny, in a working environmnent it isn't! when i mentioned it to the guy who i knew had said it (he is trying to get in with one of my staff- god help her! )he chuckled!! was i over the top?

Indecent things - the way that money is seen as a judge of a person's worth and the way in which some people persue it at the expense of the things that really matter - relationships, family, friends.

Decent things - good food, good wine, love, laughter, children, honesty, fresh air and blue skies.

sounds good to me:)

hear hear! the otehr day i was in my office at work on a conference call and the a couple of members of the un-delightfull mhall security were conversing along the lines of "he had 2 birds in one night! bet he had right sweaty b**lo*ks!" at the time i was talking with a middle aged lady about raising funds. needless to day i put a complaint in! in a pub this may have been funny, in a working environmnent it isn't! when i mentioned it to the guy who i knew had said it (he is trying to get in with one of my staff- god help her! )he chuckled!! was i over the top?
That's more inappropriate and unprofessional. To make a complaint wasn't over the top.

hear hear! the otehr day i was in my office at work on a conference call and the a couple of members of the un-delightfull mhall security were conversing along the lines of "he had 2 birds in one night! bet he had right sweaty b**lo*ks!" at the time i was talking with a middle aged lady about raising funds. needless to day i put a complaint in! in a pub this may have been funny, in a working environmnent it isn't! when i mentioned it to the guy who i knew had said it (he is trying to get in with one of my staff- god help her! )he chuckled!! was i over the top?

doesn't cheapness spread, the men obviously had no respect for the women, we don't know how the women were behaving, the men perhaps in the company of other women would be totally different (hopefully) but their behaviour is so ingrained that decent women would find them a definite no-no.
Of course if it were their daughters that men were commenting on they would be all macho about it. Not any grey areas for them.

I think we're a nation of oversexualising our kids, and sometimes I do wonder if some people are mentally prepared to take certain steps within relationships. Yet, with the added pressure from the general public to say "this is the norm" propels and cloud individual judgements of their own situation.

Have to agree Bago 100% i so much care that children today are not allowed innocence, this is a period of time where friendship, love and respect take second place (or no place) to exploitation and self gratification!

With respect to the forum, I tend to be a prude because I consider whether I'd be happy with children reading what's on the forum.

That's totally different to the lines that I draw as an adult in my private life- but since that's my private life I reserve the right to not define any of those lines to anyone else.

doesn't cheapness spread, the men obviously had no respect for the women, we don't know how the women were behaving, the men perhaps in the company of other women would be totally different (hopefully) but their behaviour is so ingrained that decent women would find them a definite no-no.
Of course if it were their daughters that men were commenting on they would be all macho about it. Not any grey areas for them.

couldnt have put it better myself!

Im hopefully old fashioned. I hate swearing, especially in public, I hate spitting and women screeching like harridans weather theyre drunk or sober, and... Well, to cut a long story short, Im stuck in a 30s time warp.
I love to see women in short skirts and skimpy tops though so Im also a bit of a Hypocrite I suppose.

Im hopefully old fashioned. I hate swearing, especially in public, I hate spitting and women screeching like harridans weather theyre drunk or sober, and... Well, to cut a long story short, Im stuck in a 30s time warp.
I love to see women in short skirts and skimpy tops though so Im also a bit of a Hypocrite I suppose.

No, you're just a regular guy:)

the biggest problem in society is that we are desensitised to most things.

as a child, my parents looked in horror at programmes even mentioning homosexuality, i was almost forbidden to watch Scum whilst @ school.
yet we could watch Carry on films with inuendo all day if we wanted.Hooror movies etc were banned as too shocking, yet you can see things today on "normal" tv that are just as horrific.

these days most things that are graphically shown are now publicly accepted.

i personally ,find that artists bisected cow obscene and a disgrace, yet i have no qualms in watching "horror" or gory movies with graphic scenes of decapitation.

i have no problems with skimpy clothes,thongs on show etc and yet would be repulsed by seeing people urinating or defecating in public.

the only correct way is YOUR way. if you don't like it or want it ,then change it or get away from it.
I remember Carry On films. I didn't make much of it myself, but I'd always find the visual humour more funny. Not because people were naked. I definitely have a different association to that. I don't know what life used to be like when Carry On films were supposedly the "forefront" of movies back then. Though, I'm learning every time I watch the numerous "100 greatest..." type of tv programmes, and watching people comment on them.

Things I find indecent:
- Incidence of indecency... a guy bragging about having "had" this waitress who was an oversea student and was studying something as prestigious as a MBA whereas he's was seen as lowly businessman. (That's what he tried to paint by the "so what" attitude.) It really fed his ego that she is now earning less than him. Even though he "had the best", it broke up his marriage. However, he seemed to be quite happy when talking of this to another guy. I just sat there and cringed.

- My ex was similar. He told me a story whereby he was on a work trip, and they stayed in a hotel. This client asked him a question, "would you do her?" when being served by this waitress. He said yes. I was horrified when I first heard of that, but he seems to think this is also "normal". I'm sorry, but I don't rate guys like that. It's crass. Demeaning etc. Lads talk?? :( He went along with it, even though he said he doesn't believe it. It's what lads do?

I think standards have declined generally. I cringe when I hear people swearing in public and see drunken people in the street. I challenged 3 young lads on the tram about their language a few weeks ago but all the other passengers looked away. I think it does come down to respect and I am not sure how we regain it in today's climate.

I think standards have declined generally. I cringe when I hear people swearing in public and see drunken people in the street. I challenged 3 young lads on the tram about their language a few weeks ago but all the other passengers looked away. I think it does come down to respect and I am not sure how we regain it in today's climate.

I used to say "don't bring your mother into it if they said anything rude", now it is so common (very apt word) I ignore it - sometimes the feeling of superiority is all-powerful - then I go home and put a spell on them;)

I remember Carry On films. I didn't make much of it myself, but I'd always find the visual humour more funny. Not because people were naked.

it wasn't the nakedness etc it was the double entendre's, bussoms being shown, ladies being slapped on the bum etc as thought it was all perfectly acceptable.
it caused many a "row" at my home when my parents watched Bab's in diamonte heart pasty's and yet they wouldn't let my siblings watch any movie over a 12 rating in the house.

my colleagues at work think i am anti social - i am in a job that encourages one to be slightly gregarious; however i totally despise the sexist jibes,innuendo, attempts to "get their end away" whilst staying away from home, so i'm a bit of an outsider.
in truth i don't say anything i wouldn't say in company.

a female friend this weekend asked for something hard from the shop - whereupon i unzipped my trousers and walked towards her. now in the close circle of friends this was found quite funny but i would never do it elsewhere.

[QUOTE=Bago;2128312]I remember Carry On films. I didn't make much of it myself, but I'd always find the visual humour more funny. Not because people were naked. IQUOTE]

it wasn't the nakedness etc it was the double entendre's, bussoms being shown, ladies being slapped on the bum etc as thought it was all perfectly acceptable.
it caused many a "row" at my home when my parents watched Bab's in diamonte heart pasty's and yet they wouldn't let my siblings watch any movie over a 12 rating in the house.

my colleagues at work think i am anti social - i am in a job that encourages one to be slightly gregarious; however i totally despise the sexist jibes,innuendo, attempts to "get their end away" whilst staying away from home, so i'm a bit of an outsider.
in truth i don't say anything i wouldn't say in company.

a female friend this weekend asked for something hard from the shop - whereupon i unzipped my trousers and walked towards her. now in the close circle of friends this was found quite funny but i would never do it elsewhere.
People underestimate their level of friendship and acceptances then. I will be the same, I wouldn't say or do something which I find that the other peson cannot take. It does not mean that they have to take it either.

It's funny. Talking of people's level of acceptances and such-likes. I tried to share a dessert using the same spoon with my ex, and he didn't like it, (if he can't handle this, I can't see him changing a nappy), yet he finds it okay to be telling me of what he gets up to as one of the lads?? :suspect:

Society and standards have declined steadily for quite some time, peoples views of what is acceptable is diluted from the norm of 30 years ago. I don't see anything acceptable with much of todays society, delinquent youths, irresponsible adults, drunken brawling, graffiti, vandalism, drugs or any number of problems we have.

I'm certain that people have absolutely no shame what so ever which is why they feel they can act like turds and get away with it, as soon as you point out to someone that their behaviour is unacceptable you can be assured of a barrage of abuse.

I've recently thought that Betjeman's poem Slough should be used as a plan for social change :(

I'm certain that people have absolutely no shame what so ever which is why they feel they can act like turds and get away with it, as soon as you point out to someone that their behaviour is unacceptable you can be assured of a barrage of abuse.


Agreed. Permissiveness has become a cancer in our society. :(

Agreed. Permissiveness has become a cancer in our society. :(

surely permissiveness is just freedom of choice.
there are numerous things i dont wish to indulge in or partake in - yet they're totally acceptable in todays society.

responsibility or the lack of it is the crux of modern societies failure.

My own take on things:

Sheffield

Come friendly bombs, fall on Sheffield!
The right to live has been repealed,
Their fate is well and truly sealed.
Swarm over, Death!

Come, bombs and blow to little bits
Those high street bars of total sh*t,
Tinned beer, tinned ale, tinned brains, tinned souls,
Tinned minds, beer addled breath.

Mess up the mess they call a town-
Crime rates rise but never go down.
Thanks Tony Blair and Gordon Brown
Another ten years.

And get that man without a job
Who'll beat his wife and make her sob,
Who takes his kids out on the rob
He thrives upon their tears:

And crush his untaxed deathtrap car
The teens he covets from afar.
He's just society's filthy mar
And make him yell.

But spare the honest decent few
Who toil and slave, are fair are true;
Their dreams are dead their hopes were slew,
They've tasted Hell.

They put up with the mindless horde
Who steal, abuse and drink when bored;
They see the scum society's spawned
which roams around the street

And talk of sport and makes of cars
In various horrid West St bars
They all guffaw and bare their arse
And vomit on their own feet.

In dingy mass built flats, they say
"I'll now take out an I.V.A!";
And I've not worked for a single day.
Their bank managers face pales.

Come, friendly bombs, fall on Sheffield
Make the people kneel and yield.
Turn concrete into breathing field;
The earth exhales.

what a talented poet you are, if you wrote it?

what a talented poet you are, if you wrote it?


As the poster said - Swan_Vesta with apologies to John Betjeman. :)

'tis good, though! Getting ANYTHING to scan against Sheffield is excellent. I like it! :)

As the poster said - Swan_Vesta with apologies to John Betjeman. :)

'tis good, though! Getting ANYTHING to scan against Sheffield is excellent. I like it! :)

Oh Joe, I'm a bit drowsy and missed that

surely permissiveness is just freedom of choice.
there are numerous things i dont wish to indulge in or partake in - yet they're totally acceptable in todays society.

responsibility or the lack of it is the crux of modern societies failure.

You mean yobs should have the freedom to be foul-mouthed, boorish louts if they choose, because you and I have the freedom not to ?

When stuck on a bus along with a gang of such yobs what exactly are my choices, given that yobbish behaviour is now totally acceptable in today's society but I find it unacceptable ?

Perhaps you could explain 'responsibily' in this situation ?