Dislike of the american people. [Archive]

Modesty

03-11-2004, 17:54

Originally posted by poppins
Seems like the majority of the english hate the american people, first of all, isn't it nice to live in a counrty where you can express an opinion without being be-headed ?

How many of you have come over to the states to shop for bargins? gone to Disney Land ?

I was in Florida last year, could't belive all the english people i met over there, quite a lot buying up expensive real estate too.
seems your dole money goes a long way.

Strange, the english didn't have that hatred in WW11.

PS I'm not an American but the rest of my family is, you couldn't meet a nicer lot.

I really find your thread very intimdating and rather rude.

You hav'nt done a very good PR job for the Americans, I think you have probabaly fired up a lot of people on the "dole" who are struggerling for a weekend away in Skegness never mind your poxy Disney Land.
I wish everyone would stand strong and avoid America and it's tourist trade, which you obviously don't realise is important to the US.

Oh and one final thing stay away from WWII, like most of America you don't know what your talking about and people over here get very passionate about it, espescially in Sheffield.

Keep the fear.X

slimsid2000

03-11-2004, 17:55

Originally posted by poppins

Strange, the english didn't have that hatred in WW11.

I'm not at all anti-American (and would have voted for Bush if I was American) but I should point out that America was more than two years late joining World War 2.

xafier

03-11-2004, 18:13

I personally don't have a hatred as such to "americans" but I dont like the way a lot of them think, especially their politicians, but then again i don't really like ours either!

the way I see america at the moment is all the rich powerful people seem to be trying to grab as much of the rest of the world as they can, trying to influence everyone... it sucks...

and the WW2 thing well... I know quite a few americans and they're all nice people, but they teach WW2 SO wrong in their schools... they make it out like the US came in and ended the war because they was being nice and cus we couldnt handle ourselves... i'm sure they miss out how we, probably the smallest country in WW2, held off for a LOT of years against everyone

and whats all this crap about people on the dole going to disneyland?? my folks earn a fair bit and even we cant afford to go to megabucks disneyland... its not exactly cheap!

no offence, but I do know a LOT of americans and the majority of them believe that americans are superior to the rest of the world... and you can deny it all you like but thats how it comes accross in so many ways... anyways I'm done now...

as I said, dont hate americans, nor do I hate anyone... but a lot of americans are too stuck up themselves... and so are a few people here, but we dont push our big weight around the world as much :P

poppins

03-11-2004, 18:18

MODESTY
I do know what i'm talking about, i see it for myself, i'm back in Sheffield once a year, you mean to tell me that people on the dole can afford to go away to skegness too ?

PS. I think i have shoes older than you !

nice talking.

Killian

03-11-2004, 18:19

I think people are offended by Americans because they are so insular and full of themselves. You only had to watch the US version of Weakest Link to appreciate that. Most Americans haven't a clue about the world outside of their borders, nor do they seem to care. How many of them actually knew where Iraq was before they went to war there? And England is not a little quaint place on the outskirts of London.

Hollywood doesn't help either. Every time something goes wrong in American history, they make a gung-ho film changing everything round so that the good old USA wins again. Don't believe the hype - Ben Afflick didn't really destroy the Japanese Air Force at Pearl Harbour.

Incidentally, I'm sure it was us who broke the enigma code!!!!!!!!!!

max

03-11-2004, 18:33

What an extremely stupid assumption. We don't like stupidity whatever the nationality and your particular brand does England and Sheffield no favours.

Americans that I know are very nice people, including my sister-in-law and the clerks who send my father his US pension cheque (check) every month.

I just cannot understand how one of the wealthiest countries in the world has one of the highest infancy death rates. :loopy:

If you do decide to leave the forum and frequent another please let us know so we can avoid it.

royjames

03-11-2004, 18:38

I have to say that the comment about everyone being on the dole was not nice and im sure in retrospect you wish you had not said it.
But I have also said that this site is mostly left wing and as such you dont get a true perspective of what the british people think.
The truth is by and large the people of this country like the americans but they dont like the insular way they look at the world.
I have sent you a pm and I will say it here you dont want to leave this site because some peole give you some grief,hell they know in right wing and give me some stick but I give it back and you ought to do the same.

poppins

03-11-2004, 19:01

OK MAX, you'l be the first to know.

If you had read my first thread you'l have known i wasn't speaking at all for americans, ispoke for myself, i'm not american.
In fact i wouldn't dare tell the americans here (MY family) included just what you all think about them, they wouldn't belive me anyhow, the americans have great respect for the english people, and our royal family, you probably hate them too, seems to me by all your replys, you can dish it out but you can't take it.

and yes we do whatch c span over here, the houses of parliment debates, it's all very interesting.

who would i vote for over there ? don't quite know.

Tony

03-11-2004, 19:05

Originally posted by slimsid2000
I'm not at all anti-American (and would have voted for Bush if I was American) but I should point out that America was more than two years late joining World War 2. You mean the 1942 - 45 European Conflict?

poppins

03-11-2004, 19:12

Hey Guys

I'm off to work now, i know you'r all going to miss me.

keep it up, ill check it out tomorrow.

love and kisses POPPINS (JUst Kidding)

Greybeard

03-11-2004, 19:31

Poppins

One of the reasons Americans are so disliked is the little matter of terrorism. For years many Americans. including some of your leading politicians, openly supported and funded the IRA in it's campaign of terror in the UK.

The moment the US is hit by the same kind of terror your president comes out with the crass statement that "those who aren't with us are against us". Well most of us aren't with you in Iraq even if our politicians, like many US politicians were duped into supporting Bush in what is turning out to be an unjustifiable bloodbath with no end in sight.

And it's conveniently overlooked that the Taliban and Al Quaeda are both creatures of US foreign policy, armed and funded to harras the Russians in Afghanistan. Now they're rabid dogs that have turned on their former masters. Memory is also short when it comes to Saddam Hussein, another former instrument of US foreign policy at the time of his war with Iran. It didn't seem to matter then that he was a murderous despot, so long as he did your dirty work for you.

As for or WWII - it's debateable whether the US would have declared war on Germany if Hitler hadn't signed up to an alliance with Japan. The possible success of a German victory over Russia and a link up with Japan was probably more important in Americam considerations than the fate of the UK and the rest of Europe at the hands of Nazi Germany.

I've never encountered an American I disliked on a personal level, but the often insular and ignorant public face of many of your politicians can be quite repulsive.

Disco_Cat

03-11-2004, 20:14

I love the American people.

That is why i've spent the whole day feeling so ****ty that they have to endure another four years of their civil liberites being eroded while their young and poor sacrifice their blood for oil.

I'm going to go sit in my room in the dark and listen to some Johnny Cash (isn't he American?) in the vain hope the last few hours have been a very bad dream from which i will awake..

Intersting response to todays news from the website of Michael Moore (insn't he American)

http://www.michaelmoore.com

depoix

03-11-2004, 20:28

Originally posted by Greybeard
Poppins

One of the reasons Americans are so disliked is the little matter of terrorism. For years many Americans. including some of your leading politicians, openly supported and funded the IRA in it's campaign of terror in the UK.

The moment the US is hit by the same kind of terror your president comes out with the crass statement that "those who aren't with us are against us". Well most of us aren't with you in Iraq even if our politicians, like many US politicians were duped into supporting Bush in what is turning out to be an unjustifiable bloodbath with no end in sight.

And it's conveniently overlooked that the Taliban and Al Quaeda are both creatures of US foreign policy, armed and funded to harras the Russians in Afghanistan. Now they're rabid dogs that have turned on their former masters. Memory is also short when it comes to Saddam Hussein, another former instrument of US foreign policy at the time of his war with Iran. It didn't seem to matter then that he was a murderous despot, so long as he did your dirty work for you.

As for or WWII - it's debateable whether the US would have declared war on Germany if Hitler hadn't signed up to an alliance with Japan. The possible success of a German victory over Russia and a link up with Japan was probably more important in Americam considerations than the fate of the UK and the rest of Europe at the hands of Nazi Germany.

I've never encountered an American I disliked on a personal level, but the often insular and ignorant public face of many of your politicians can be quite repulsive. thank you sir,could not have put it better if i tried,

nez75

03-11-2004, 20:32

Originally posted by Greybeard
Poppins

One of the reasons Americans are so disliked is the little matter of terrorism. For years many Americans. including some of your leading politicians, openly supported and funded the IRA in it's campaign of terror in the UK.

The moment the US is hit by the same kind of terror your president comes out with the crass statement that "those who aren't with us are against us". Well most of us aren't with you in Iraq even if our politicians, like many US politicians were duped into supporting Bush in what is turning out to be an unjustifiable bloodbath with no end in sight.

And it's conveniently overlooked that the Taliban and Al Quaeda are both creatures of US foreign policy, armed and funded to harras the Russians in Afghanistan. Now they're rabid dogs that have turned on their former masters. Memory is also short when it comes to Saddam Hussein, another former instrument of US foreign policy at the time of his war with Iran. It didn't seem to matter then that he was a murderous despot, so long as he did your dirty work for you.

As for or WWII - it's debateable whether the US would have declared war on Germany if Hitler hadn't signed up to an alliance with Japan. The possible success of a German victory over Russia and a link up with Japan was probably more important in Americam considerations than the fate of the UK and the rest of Europe at the hands of Nazi Germany.

I've never encountered an American I disliked on a personal level, but the often insular and ignorant public face of many of your politicians can be quite repulsive.

Wow, what a lad! Is this the best post on this forum or what? Top lad.

t020

03-11-2004, 20:33

Several posters on this forum have expressed what would otherwise be considered "RACIST" comments towards Americans in general. The "Hate List" thread is a good example. Somehow though, it seems to be acceptable to discriminate against Americans. If I was an American or living in America and I used this forum I'd be very offended and put off. A comment by "alchresearch" (he puts his hope in Osama Bin Laden, the mass murderer and terrorist, to do the world a favour and "wipe the smug grin" off the democratically elected leader of the USA) in the "Kerry concedes" election thread really highlights the frightening nature of the anti-American sentiment among many forum users.

Robbie Loving

03-11-2004, 20:40

Originally posted by poppins
Evildrneil
I'm not confused one bit, i just see what i read.

Think it's about time i looked for a new forum, don't you ?

yes

depoix

03-11-2004, 20:54

Originally posted by t020
Several posters on this forum have expressed what would otherwise be considered "RACIST" comments towards Americans in general. The "Hate List" thread is a good example. Somehow though, it seems to be acceptable to discriminate against Americans. If I was an American or living in America and I used this forum I'd be very offended and put off. A comment by "alchresearch" (he puts his hope in Osama Bin Laden, the mass murderer and terrorist, to do the world a favour and "wipe the smug grin" off the democratically elected leader of the USA) in the "Kerry concedes" election thread really highlights the frightening nature of the anti-American sentiment among many forum users. wake up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

evildrneil

03-11-2004, 21:22

Originally posted by nez75
Wow, what a lad! Is this the best post on this forum or what? Top lad.

I have to agree - best (and most rational!) thing I have read on here in a LOOOOONG time!!!

Killian

03-11-2004, 21:55

Originally posted by nez75
Wow, what a lad! Is this the best post on this forum or what? Top lad.

Definitely the best. And Alchresearch's post on the 'Kerry Concedes' thread is easily the worst.

Lickszz

03-11-2004, 22:07

I seem to get on well with American people. I like their culture and personally feel closer to them than any other nation.

chillicat

03-11-2004, 22:22

Several posters on this forum have expressed what would otherwise be considered "RACIST" comments towards Americans in general

Best get the dictionary out again mate, remind yourself what racism really means.

DaBouncer

03-11-2004, 22:28

I've tried to avoid this thread as much as possible because it's a subject close to me.

I have spent a lot of time in the states, I have very very good friends across america (Americans too not Expats).
I've never had a dislike of Americans as a whole, just one or two arrogant one - similar to my dislike to some arrogant Enlgish people too.

I think you need to take some of the comments on this board which give out anti american comments with a pinch of salt.
Maybe the ones who dislike America as a whole are more vocal than those of us who don't - who knows.

I have personally found American people (on the whole) to be very friendly, welcoming and respectful of the English and I offer the same respect in return.

I personally hold america in high regard (irrespective of leader) - the leader of america is not every american.

However comments relating to WW2 etc aren't going to win anybody any votes - especially with evidence to back up the contrary and other failures of the states.

The way it stands all countries have made mistakes in politics and otherwise so neither has the right to disresepect the other.
To make a statement of my own - I would rather be allies with America than with the whole of Europe if it came down to a choice.
I know people don't share my thoughts - these are my own.

Poppins - over the time you've been here I don't think I have come across a post where I have strongly disagreed with you or took offence at. However I seriously think that you should just out this down to experience and not take everything to heart.

If someone makes anti American comments (although it may **** you off) just rise above it. It will make your character look stronger in the eye of the forum than to react to it by going in all guns blazing (ironically an American trate).

All the Best

:thumbsup:

t020

03-11-2004, 22:42

Originally posted by chillicat
Best get the dictionary out again mate, remind yourself what racism really means.

Yes, exactly, "MATE". You're not my mate in the same way that it wasn't racist. My point was that discrimination against, for example, Muslims (which isn't a race it's a religion) is considered "RACIST" by the do-good brigade yet discrimination against Americans is just fine by them.

mojoworking

03-11-2004, 22:43

DaBouncer

03-11-2004, 22:54

Originally posted by mojoworking
Can't argue with that! :thumbsup:
You could but it wouldn't get you very far - nice work t020 :lol:

Snook

03-11-2004, 22:58

Having lived with an American in England, you certainly do feel a lot of bad feeling towards America. I don't think we really hate American's though. I really like Americans on a one to one basis, and i have never met an American as objectional as Poppins... so it isn't looking good for us brits.

I think people here don't just accept things on face value like Americans, and we can usually see through the myth that is American democracy.

Phanerothyme

03-11-2004, 23:11

Originally posted by t020
Yes, exactly, "MATE". You're not my mate in the same way that it wasn't racist. My point was that discrimination against, for example, Muslims (which isn't a race it's a religion) is considered "RACIST" by the do-good brigade yet discrimination against Americans is just fine by them.

Any anti-american sentiment has been largely directed at the current junta, not the people of the USA (although there have been some ill judged comments). So I don't see much discrimination against Americans anywhere.

Your failure to grasp that 'anti-americanism' cannot be constituted as racist, is compounded by your inability to judge precisely who is conflating muslims, islamists pakistanis and arabs into the same homogenous sterotype.

Your average 'lefty do gooder' will be at pains to distinguish between all categories without favour, but your average 'card carrying member of the thick as pigpoo© brigade' will be happy to lump arabs, pakistanis, muslims, terrorists, and quite possibly immigrants and asylum seekers into the same category of 'dangerous undesirables'.

This is not racist either, of course - simply thick as pigpoo©.

At least this time the US has shown a clear majority both in the popular vote and the electoral college. It may be Bush, but frankly there isn't a great deal to distinguish them apart from their fireside manner. And on a record turnout too - It's not the result I had hoped for, but then it rarely is. But a free and fair election is a bonus. (if it indeed was a free and fair election, I have no reason to suppose it wasn't).

t020

03-11-2004, 23:27

kilauea

03-11-2004, 23:46

Lots of dodgy postings here from start to finish.

I hate America. That does not mean I hate all american people, I couldn't as I have a lot of American relatives. But their support for this particular president and past actions prevents me from having any respect or fondness for the country and its population as a whole.

Some "facts" re. previous postings.

No, America would not enter the war till peal harbour was attacked, depsite desperate plees from its "allies".

The USA, despite its claims, did not win WW2. It was Russias offensive against Germany that stopped the war. Niether did the USA crack the Nazi codes (that was the UK) despite Hollywood films depicting such since.

America did not fund the IRA. Ever. That is nonsese. There was a private organisation in the USA called Noraid however that did fund the IRA through large american donations and were directly responosible for supplying the Barrent Light 50 sniper rifle that killed several of my colleagues in the early 90's as well as RUC members and civilians.

the USA (under bush) has publicly denounced the UK's tacticts in northern ireland since the mid 70's.
Er....Fallujah anyone?

The USA in the last major conflict we had (the falklands) refused to refuel our first fleet to arrive in the conflict zone. Despite later supplying some intelligence refused to be involved that war (but expects everyone to side with it in Iraq?).

The election revolved around arbortion, stem cell research and gay marrige. At the end of the day - how can a population decide these are more important than its own countries atrocities in a country most of its inhabitants can not point out on a map?

kilauea

04-11-2004, 00:09

Originally posted by poppins
Seems like the majority of the english hate the american people, first of all, isn't it nice to live in a counrty where you can express an opinion without being be-headed ?

er...yes it is nice and we do. You don't expect us to thank the USA for Russia winning WW2 do you?

How many of you have come over to the states to shop for bargins? gone to Disney Land ?

I was in Florida last year, could't belive all the english people i met over there, quite a lot buying up expensive real estate too.
seems your dole money goes a long way.

Some friends of mine did - however that did not make them american, did not make them vote for an idiot for president, had a god awful job getting in due to the USA immigrant laws and draw a UK pension.

Strange, the english didn't have that hatred in WW11.

PS I'm not an American but the rest of my family is, you couldn't meet a nicer lot.

We hated USA guts actually as a lot of americans supported hitlers view on the jews (they were persecuted in the USA before and during the war) and they refused to join us against germany until they were attacked by Japan.

So thanks for your ill educated impression of the UK's attitudes to the USA and its "achievements".

Ned Ludd

04-11-2004, 03:51

Interesting that some forum members are accused of racism because they anti-American. A country founded on the ethnic cleansing of it's native peoples and imported slave labour. The States contempt of human life as shown by foreign policy interventions and support for various murderous regimes in Latin America over the past 100 years, the killing of millions of "gooks" in Vietnam, support of Pol Pot, support of Sukharno and now their current slaughter of 100000 civilian Iraqi "ragheads" reveals that this racism and racial superiority is still at the heart of US foreign policy and has a continuity over the past 250years. Other peoples are a lower form of life, to be demonised and the obliterated if they get in the way of US interests.
All done in the name of freedom of democracy (rather than US paranoia, self interest and economic hegemony) I'm sure the dead and disabled of Iraq appreciate the bringing of "freedom" as much as the Indians appreciated the bringing of "civilisation" all those years ago.

mojoworking

04-11-2004, 05:25

Originally posted by Ned Ludd
Interesting that some forum members are accused of racism because they anti-American. A country founded on the ethnic cleansing of it's native peoples and imported slave labour. The States contempt of human life as shown by foreign policy interventions and support for various murderous regimes in Latin America over the past 100 years, the killing of millions of "gooks" in Vietnam, support of Pol Pot, support of Sukharno and now their current slaughter of 100000 civilian Iraqi "ragheads" reveals that this racism and racial superiority is still at the heart of US foreign policy and has a continuity over the past 250years. Other peoples are a lower form of life, to be demonised and the obliterated if they get in the way of US interests.
All done in the name of freedom of democracy (rather than US paranoia, self interest and economic hegemony) I'm sure the dead and disabled of Iraq appreciate the bringing of "freedom" as much as the Indians appreciated the bringing of "civilisation" all those years ago.

I can't imagine why, but I have a mental picture of you foaming at the mouth while typing the above Ned :)

Tony

04-11-2004, 05:44

Ned Ludd

04-11-2004, 06:01

Originally posted by mojoworking
I can't imagine why, but I have a mental picture of you foaming at the mouth while typing the above Ned :)
I may be foaming at the mouth.....I'm still not as mad as Bush and his crew though!:gag:

DaBouncer

04-11-2004, 06:14

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Any anti-american sentiment has been largely directed at the current junta, not the people of the USA (although there have been some ill judged comments). So I don't see much discrimination against Americans anywhere.

Your failure to grasp that 'anti-americanism' cannot be constituted as racist, is compounded by your inability to judge precisely who is conflating muslims, islamists pakistanis and arabs into the same homogenous sterotype.

Your average 'lefty do gooder' will be at pains to distinguish between all categories without favour, but your average 'card carrying member of the thick as pigpoo© brigade' will be happy to lump arabs, pakistanis, muslims, terrorists, and quite possibly immigrants and asylum seekers into the same category of 'dangerous undesirables'.

This is not racist either, of course - simply thick as pigpoo©.

At least this time the US has shown a clear majority both in the popular vote and the electoral college. It may be Bush, but frankly there isn't a great deal to distinguish them apart from their fireside manner. And on a record turnout too - It's not the result I had hoped for, but then it rarely is. But a free and fair election is a bonus. (if it indeed was a free and fair election, I have no reason to suppose it wasn't).
Trust Phan to come and blow my last post out of the water - well argued Phan!

espadrille

04-11-2004, 06:16

It is quite right that there a re a lot of people in the Uk who are on benefits.
There are also a lot of Americans in the same situation.
The problem is that when anyone brings up a discussion about WW2 or any other war for that matter that the British have fought in, it will stir up a response of patriotism and people are united in their feelings that we are a proud and tough fighting nation with years and years of history that the Americans cannot begin to comprehend.
We may be 10 years behind USA when it comes to business acumen and entrpreneurs, but we have a nation of people that believe in fighting for the rights of freedom and democracy.
The war was not won by the Americans ,or the french or any other single natio at all, it was based on a reolve to stand up and be counted.
It was almost at the end of the war when the Americans eventually got involved.How many lives had been lost by then.
How many innocent lives have been lost in the current so called war on terror.
You will rouse a lot of feelings on here when you make unfounded comments about the British people

headup

04-11-2004, 06:16

Wow...just wow. I guess ignorance, racism and irrational hatred are universal traits. It certainly seems that Sheffield or at least this forum has its own group of the narrow-minded.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Nedd Ludd: With respect to the destruction of the Native Americans, I'll refer you to the hundreds of years of slavery and imperialist conquest that Britain inflicted on the world. How can you judge a nation or its current generation of citizens by the actions of its government or its history?

Are you the type of person that blames the current generation of German people for the rise of National Socialism and the Third Reich? Should we not buy Japanese products to punish them for what they did to 'us' in the Pacific theater of the 1940's?

Respectfully, your reference to the genocide inflicted on the Native American nations is rather weak in my opinion. Your reference to the killing of innocent Iraqis as a method of judging the American people as a whole is shocking. Many American people disagree with Bush and his gang of NeoCon crazies as illustrated by this recent election (unfortunately, not enough).

I was personally devastated by the re-election of Bush. As was my wife - an American. As were my work colleagues - Americans.
American people who are proud to be American but disagree with the situation in Iraq, the disregard for the environment, the frankly very scary (so-called) Christian fundamentalism and its implications and the economy that is spiralling into a big black hole.

Anyone who decides that they hate a nation or its people due to the actions of its government or whatever needs to wake up. Get out...travel a bit...meet people from other countries and cultures.

I'm not a religious man, but if I were, I would pray that the next four years are safe for all of us. Whoever we are.

PS Nedd - please don't read this as a personal attack on you. I feel that answering your post expresses my opinions on some of the views expressed in this thread.

mojoworking

04-11-2004, 06:44

Originally posted by headup
Wow...just wow. I guess ignorance, racism and irrational hatred are universal traits. It certainly seems that Sheffield or at least this forum has its own group of the narrow-minded.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

Nedd Ludd: With respect to the destruction of the Native Americans, I'll refer you to the hundreds of years of slavery and imperialist conquest that Britain inflicted on the world. How can you judge a nation or its current generation of citizens by the actions of its government or its history?

Are you the type of person that blames the current generation of German people for the rise of National Socialism and the Third Reich? Should we not buy Japanese products to punish them for what they did to 'us' in the Pacific theater of the 1940's?

Respectfully, your reference to the genocide inflicted on the Native American nations is rather weak in my opinion. Your reference to the killing of innocent Iraqis as a method of judging the American people as a whole is shocking. Many American people disagree with Bush and his gang of NeoCon crazies as illustrated by this recent election (unfortunately, not enough).

I was personally devastated by the re-election of Bush. As was my wife - an American. As were my work colleagues - Americans.
American people who are proud to be American but disagree with the situation in Iraq, the disregard for the environment, the frankly very scary (so-called) Christian fundamentalism and its implications and the economy that is spiralling into a big black hole.

Anyone who decides that they hate a nation or its people due to the actions of its government or whatever needs to wake up. Get out...travel a bit...meet people from other countries and cultures.

I'm not a religious man, but if I were, I would pray that the next four years are safe for all of us. Whoever we are.

PS Nedd - please don't read this as a personal attack on you. I feel that answering your post expresses my opinions on some of the views expressed in this thread.

Well said headup. It was us, the British who were responsible for the bulk of the slave trade and much of the genocide of the native American Indians

evildrneil

04-11-2004, 07:37

Originally posted by mojoworking
Well said headup. It was us, the British who were responsible for the bulk of the slave trade

Not sure about this, as the sellers of slaves were on the whole Africans you could probably argue that they were responsible for the bulk of slave trade.

nick2

04-11-2004, 08:14

I realy like Americans and America, it's such a vast diverse country that you can see every type of landscape and meet loads of different people, unlike here where we live in such a small place that we are all fairly similar.

Granted I've only been a few times and to a few places but I think I've met enough people to form an opinion.

The people who work in shops/restaurants/hotels and on public transport as so much more polite, friendly and helpfull than the equivalent English employee and actualy seem to enjoy their job not just be doing it because they can't get anything else.

p.s. I realy like San Diego, they have good trams and busses, great when you can't drive :0)

wibbles

04-11-2004, 08:17

Originally posted by poppins
Evildrneil
I'm not confused one bit, i just see what i read.

Think it's about time i looked for a new forum, don't you ?

See ya then..have a nice day y'all

Modesty

04-11-2004, 08:48

Originally posted by poppins
PS. I think i have shoes older than you !

Well then ,one would have thought that you really should know better.

I'll own up and admit that I'm not a big fan of The USA, but I'm not stupid enough to think that they are all like Poppins over there.
It was the manner of your thread that left a bad taste in my mouth.
In fact I would go as far to think that it was someone here in Sheff that's widding us up, it was that sterotypical.

Hey, I fly off the handle sometimes but is'nt that what the US have fought for the Western world, a right to speak freely;) .

Bottom line for me is, how can you love or visit a country that has so much hate and lack of understanding for the rest of the world.

That's the picture painted by those in charge.

Snook

04-11-2004, 09:41

Originally posted by Modesty
Bottom line for me is, how can you love or visit a country that has so much hate and lack of understanding for the rest of the world.

Because it's not true. If you live in America you meet all sorts of people, and there is very rarely any hate for other countries, and most people have a desire to hear about your country and to learn about the rest of the world. I was forever asked questions about what Europe is like, and the differences between America and Britain. You can't really blame the American people for having terrible media sources.

nick2

04-11-2004, 10:12

Originally posted by Modesty
Bottom line for me is, how can you love or visit a country that has so much hate and lack of understanding for the rest of the world.

I don't know, ask the next tourist you see in London.

Modesty

04-11-2004, 10:59

Originally posted by Snook
Because it's not true. If you live in America you meet all sorts of people, and there is very rarely any hate for other countries, and most people have a desire to hear about your country and to learn about the rest of the world. I was forever asked questions about what Europe is like, and the differences between America and Britain. You can't really blame the American people for having terrible media sources.

Like I said, "That's the picture painted by those in charge".

Modesty

04-11-2004, 11:04

Originally posted by nick2
I don't know, ask the next tourist you see in London.

I agree, but don't get me started on London.:(

nomme

04-11-2004, 11:07

Originally posted by Snook
You can't really blame the American people for having terrible media sources.

Who can we blame then?

Sure they have Fox News etc. BUT they also have a choice whether they watch it or something less 'terrible'.

Nomme

Snook

04-11-2004, 11:18

Originally posted by nomme
Who can we blame then?

Sure they have Fox News etc. BUT they also have a choice whether they watch it or something less 'terrible'.

Nomme

Like what? There is no news network in America that gives anything like decent international news. 'World news' hardly ever ventures outside the US.

nick2

04-11-2004, 11:34

I've also found that the people who live on the coasts tend to be more interested in foreign affaris, and foreigners, than the people who live in the middle of the country.
And some states are more anti-outsiders than others, compare California and Texas, two completely different attitudes.

Ned Ludd

04-11-2004, 11:47

Originally posted by headup
Nedd Ludd: With respect to the destruction of the Native Americans, I'll refer you to the hundreds of years of slavery and imperialist conquest that Britain inflicted on the world. How can you judge a nation or its current generation of citizens by the actions of its government or its history?
I am well aware of Britain's sometimes less than glorious history not least their presence in Iraq today but that's not the topic.The real slaughter of the Indians only started with the opening up of the West after the Brits had been kicked out with French help.I see a long term continium in the way that America has treated non white peoples.
Originally posted by headup
Are you the type of person that blames the current generation of German people for the rise of National Socialism and the Third Reich? Should we not buy Japanese products to punish them for what they did to 'us' in the Pacific theater of the 1940's? Despite the horrific scale of Nazi atrocities the period was very limited in German history(thanks to the Allies) The German people have been quite clear about the regret and guilt over the Hitler years. They still avoid getting dragged into militarism as a result (and to the annoyance of GW Bush)
The Japanese government deserves no respect for it's failure to accept responsibility for war crimes and for whitewashing it's history books...not least of what was done in China but I don't blame the people who again because of their history are also mainly set against militarism
Originally posted by headup
Respectfully, your reference to the genocide inflicted on the Native American nations is rather weak in my opinion. Your reference to the killing of innocent Iraqis as a method of judging the American people as a whole is shocking. Many American people disagree with Bush and his gang of NeoCon crazies as illustrated by this recent election (unfortunately, not enough).
Clearly the majority of US citizens are happy with the carnage of the innocent (based on the election result and any number of opinions expressed on the street in TV interviews) I don't however lump all Americans together anymore than I would all Germans between 1932-1945.

Originally posted by headup
I was personally devastated by the re-election of Bush. As was my wife - an American. As were my work colleagues - Americans.
American people who are proud to be American but disagree with the situation in Iraq, the disregard for the environment, the frankly very scary (so-called) Christian fundamentalism and its implications and the economy that is spiralling into a big black hole.
Anyone who decides that they hate a nation or its people due to the actions of its government or whatever needs to wake up. Get out...travel a bit...meet people from other countries and cultures. The actions of any democratic government are taken with the consent of the electorate (to a degree) and therefore the people are culpable. I don't hate all Americans but I probably do those with a fantasist John Wayne view of history and current events, in which truth and virtue are peversely reversed.
Originally posted by headup
PS Nedd - please don't read this as a personal attack on you. I feel that answering your post expresses my opinions on some of the views expressed in this thread.
It's refreshing that someone can make a reasoned case without resorting to "lefty do-gooder" type remarks which are all too frequent hereabouts and suffice in place of pertinent arguement :)

nomme

04-11-2004, 11:52

Originally posted by Snook
Like what?

So don't they have access to satellite/cable telly in the U.S. i.e. access to non-american news channels?
Don't they have internet access? Newspapers? Radio?

Sorry, I didn't realise.

Originally posted by Snook
There is no news network in America that gives anything like decent international news. 'World news' hardly ever ventures outside the US.

I agree. All I'm saying is that they do have a choice - you make it sound like they don't.

Nomme

Snook

04-11-2004, 12:04

Originally posted by nomme
So don't they have access to satellite/cable telly in the U.S. i.e. access to non-american news channels?
Don't they have internet access? Newspapers? Radio?

Sorry, I didn't realise.

There are no foreign news networks on standard cable TV, and satellite costs quite a lot of money. If you look at the states that voted for Bush i'm sure not too many people would be able to afford have all the channels and finding foreign newspapers there is almost impossible (i've tried at length and the best you can get is the NY Times or Washington Post)... as for newspapers and radio, it is the same thing, they just don't discuss the outside world unless it is a major story or has some link to America.

I agree with you that people should seek out knowledge and understand the world better, but how many people do that here? It's only because we have relativly good media sources that we even know there is a world outside out own little island.

How many people here know who the leader of Denmark is? I'm sure a lot don't even know who the leader of France or Eire is.

kilauea

04-11-2004, 12:16

Originally posted by nomme
So don't they have access to satellite/cable telly in the U.S. i.e. access to non-american news channels?
Don't they have internet access? Newspapers? Radio?

Sorry, I didn't realise.

I agree. All I'm saying is that they do have a choice - you make it sound like they don't.

Nomme

that is a pretty naieve view of a lof of US people. They don't have a choice. Internet access is no where near as widespread as it is in the UK and there areas where TV stations are actualy limited to local broadcasts.

The don't all live in the big cities and its a big BIG country. My folks live 40mins away from sheffield in derbyshire - they can not get broadband and standard dialup internet is virtually unusable due to the crap line. Without an aerial booster than can not pick up any tv channels at all. The can not get digital. They can not have sky. There is no cable.

So how do you think it would be living bang in the middle of one of the less populated mid-western states?

Or I suppose could you afford cable / internet etc if you are one of the 31 million living in poverty (counted in year 2000).

I'm totally against the US "regime" and I do believe it is an under educated population that voted Bush back in - but I would stop short of ouright condemnation of all americans for not helping themselves.

slimsid2000

04-11-2004, 12:56

On the subject of unthinking anti-Americanism a couple of points. Isn't it strange that some of the biggest anti-Americans are the very people who talk so much about the virtues of multiculturalism and respect for other cultures. Obviously this doesn't extend to the American culture.

Also this morning's Daily Mirror is a classic example of such unthinking prejedice. It has a front page headline asking how 59 million Americans can be so dumb as to reelect Bush. Perhaps they should ask how the Mirror was so dumb as to recently print fake pictures of British troops in Iraq and make unfounded allegations of abuse against them.

Greenback

04-11-2004, 13:16

Originally posted by slimsid2000
Also this morning's Daily Mirror is a classic example of such unthinking prejedice. It has a front page headline asking how 59 million Americans can be so dumb as to reelect Bush. Perhaps they should ask how the Mirror was so dumb as to recently print fake pictures of British troops in Iraq and make unfounded allegations of abuse against them.

It's a perfectly reasonable question to ask, seeing as Bush's re-election is so bizarre to virtually everyone living outside US borders. If you examine the facts, his presidency was a total disaster in terms of the economy and the ridiculously-titled "war on terror". So, "Unthinking prejudice"? No. There's a strong case to be made that re-electing Bush was a dumb thing to do.

Cyclone

04-11-2004, 13:39

Originally posted by kilauea
that is a pretty naieve view of a lof of US people. They don't have a choice. Internet access is no where near as widespread as it is in the UK and there areas where TV stations are actualy limited to local broadcasts.

The don't all live in the big cities and its a big BIG country. My folks live 40mins away from sheffield in derbyshire - they can not get broadband and standard dialup internet is virtually unusable due to the crap line. Without an aerial booster than can not pick up any tv channels at all. The can not get digital. They can not have sky. There is no cable.

So how do you think it would be living bang in the middle of one of the less populated mid-western states?

Or I suppose could you afford cable / internet etc if you are one of the 31 million living in poverty (counted in year 2000).

I'm totally against the US "regime" and I do believe it is an under educated population that voted Bush back in - but I would stop short of ouright condemnation of all americans for not helping themselves.

they can't get sky. don't they have electricity then? because that's all that's required to power the dish and the majority of europe is covered by the transmition footprint.

and i believe that for years broadband take-up has been ahead of europe and the uk, there's probably more americans with high speed internet access than all non americans with it.

Snook

04-11-2004, 13:46

Originally posted by Cyclone
they can't get sky. don't they have electricity then? because that's all that's required to power the dish and the majority of europe is covered by the transmition footprint.

and i believe that for years broadband take-up has been ahead of europe and the uk, there's probably more americans with high speed internet access than all non americans with it.

No, they don't get Sky. You don't get free channels over there on anything but your normal tv ariel. I think Direct TV starts at about $50 a month.

13% of American's had broadband in 2003.

http://www.internetworldstats.com/articles/art030.htm

nomme

04-11-2004, 14:03

Originally posted by kilauea
that is a pretty naieve view of a lof of US people. They don't have a choice. Internet access is no where near as widespread as it is in the UK and there areas where TV stations are actualy limited to local broadcasts.

Far be it from me to tell you that you are wrong but you are wrong.
In the USA, out of a population of 293 million, 159 million are internet users. That's over half the population. Compare that with Britain with a population 60 million with 25 million internet users.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2153rank.html

According to these figures 1 in 4 Internet users in the WORLD is from the USA.

I take your point though - some don't have a choice BUT I would have thought that seeing as we are discussing "the largest and most technologically powerful economy in the world" that most do.

Originally posted by kilauea
The don't all live in the big cities and its a big BIG country. My folks live 40mins away from sheffield in derbyshire - they can not get broadband and standard dialup internet is virtually unusable due to the crap line. Without an aerial booster than can not pick up any tv channels at all. The can not get digital. They can not have sky. There is no cable.

So how do you think it would be living bang in the middle of one of the less populated mid-western states?

Or I suppose could you afford cable / internet etc if you are one of the 31 million living in poverty (counted in year 2000).

Personally - I'd listen to the BBC World Service. Or can't they get that either?

From the CIA world fact book:
United States : Telvision Stations: " more than 1,500 (including nearly 1,000 stations affiliated with the five major networks - NBC, ABC, CBS, FOX, and PBS; in addition, there are about 9,000 cable TV systems) (1997)"

Again - I take your point that some don't have a choice.

Originally posted by kilauea
.... but I would stop short of outright condemnation of all americans for not helping themselves. [/B]

I never said that. I was just trying to point out that most do have a choice.

I took issue with Snook's comment:

"You can't really blame the American people for having terrible media sources."

Where I asked - "Well who can you blame then?"

So, who is making all these "terrible media sources" the Americans are forced to watch - (if they can afford it)?

Nomme

kilauea

04-11-2004, 14:05

Originally posted by Cyclone
they can't get sky. don't they have electricity then? because that's all that's required to power the dish and the majority of europe is covered by the transmition footprint.

and i believe that for years broadband take-up has been ahead of europe and the uk, there's probably more americans with high speed internet access than all non americans with it.

Thats all utterly absurd.

I couldn't get Sky when I lived in Leeds!!!
It takes a lot more than just electricity - dish siting for line of sight, permission to erect the dish, CASH!
And Europe has been way ahead of America in net access for years and due to logisitical and economic factors probably always will be.

talk sense.

Snook

04-11-2004, 14:11

Originally posted by nomme
I took issue with Snook's comment:

"You can't really blame the American people for having terrible media sources."

Where I asked - "Well who can you blame then?"

So, who is making all these "terrible media sources" the Americans are forced to watch - (if they can afford it)?

Nomme

A very rich Austrailian bloke...

I understand what you are saying, and i agree. I think people should take to effort to be more understanding of other cultures. In that vein i'm making the point that most Americans don't know anything different, and they don't have the choice of EASY access to a world view like we do, and maybe we should be more understanding that their country has undergone some sort of mass brain-washing from white christians. If you've ever looked at an American high school history book... honestly, it's laughable and very onesided.

My point was, should we really judge people for the enviroment they have grown up in though, or should we try to understand why American's think like they do?

kilauea

04-11-2004, 14:18

Originally posted by nomme
Far be it from me to tell you that you are wrong but you are wrong.
In the USA, out of a population of 293 million, 159 million are internet users. That's over half the population. Compare that with Britain with a population 60 million with 25 million internet users.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2153rank.html

According to these figures 1 in 4 Internet users in the WORLD is from the USA.

Far be it from me to tell you your stats mean nothing to the point I am making.
Only 44 million HOMES in the US have net access. That is less the a quarter.
So the proliferation of internet cafes in the big cities and access from Univercities which color the stats you have presented are not a true reflection of what is available to most americans.

And I never said they don't have the infrastructure to have 1000's of TV channels and whatever else - the only point I made was a majority of the country do not have access to it.

nomme

04-11-2004, 14:24

Originally posted by kilauea
Far be it from me to tell you your stats mean nothing to the point I am making.
Only 44 million HOMES in the US have net access. That is less the a quarter.
So the proliferation of internet cafes in the big cities and access from Univercities which color the stats you have presented are not a true reflection of what is available to most americans.

And I never said they don't have the infrastructure to have 1000's of TV channels and whatever else - the only point I made was a majority of the country do not have access to it.

Oh I'd best go tell the CIA they got it wrong.

What's the source for your figures?

You make the USA sound like a third world country.

Nomme

poppins

04-11-2004, 14:28

Hi
First off I never said the americans won WW11 for you, as i know it's not true, one of you seemes to enjoy making stuff up.

It all brought out your deep hatred for american people anyhow, who as i keep on saying do not understand why, also don't belive it, i needed to open their eyes, with help i'v been able to spred your words to them by sending your coments around from this thread, that was your intention, wasn't it ?

I also sent the Osama message, well the invite, one of you posted
that should convince them of how you all feel.

You realy have to take what you can dish out.

Sidla

04-11-2004, 14:28

Originally posted by kilauea
Far be it from me to tell you your stats mean nothing to the point I am making.
Only 44 million HOMES in the US have net access. That is less the a quarter.
So the proliferation of internet cafes in the big cities and access from Univercities which color the stats you have presented are not a true reflection of what is available to most americans.

And I never said they don't have the infrastructure to have 1000's of TV channels and whatever else - the only point I made was a majority of the country do not have access to it.
A majority of the country do though. OK, so your home may not have access, but as you said, there are universities, schools, cafes and offices which all have internet access which the majority of Americans would have access too. OK, so it's not 24/7, but the majority of Americans do have internet access in some form or another.

kilauea

04-11-2004, 14:33

Originally posted by Sidla
A majority of the country do though. OK, so your home may not have access, but as you said, there are universities, schools, cafes and offices which all have internet access which the majority of Americans would have access too. OK, so it's not 24/7, but the majority of Americans do have internet access in some form or another.

Yes if they live near a net cafe, Uni or whatever they may be able to get access if they can afford it.

maybe I should qualify and say that the majority of amerians do not have easily available and affordable net access?

kilauea

04-11-2004, 14:36

Originally posted by nomme
Oh I'd best go tell the CIA they got it wrong.

What's the source for your figures?

You make the USA sound like a third world country.

Nomme

The CIA are not reporting on homes with net access - if you are going to use figures could you please have the courtesy to undetstand them yourself before posting them?

I'm not wasting my time educating you - read the stats and google for homes with net access.

And as I alrady mentioned 31 million people in the year 2000 were living in poverty so by our standards a lot of the USA is a 3rd world country.

kilauea

04-11-2004, 14:40

Sidla

04-11-2004, 14:50

Originally posted by poppins
First off I never said the americans won WW11 for you,
What happened to the other 9 World Wars? :confused:

I'm not sure I agree anyway. We blatently wouldn't have won the war if America hadn't intervened.

Snook

04-11-2004, 15:04

Originally posted by Sidla
What happened to the other 9 World Wars? :confused:

I'm not sure I agree anyway. We blatently wouldn't have won the war if America hadn't intervened.

And the Russians.

nomme

04-11-2004, 15:07

Originally posted by kilauea
The CIA are not reporting on homes with net access - if you are going to use figures could you please have the courtesy to undetstand them yourself before posting them?

Yes I know. I can read. It would seem you can't. I said "internet users". Not "Number of homes with net access". You conjured that figure up from thin air. If your going to use figures could you please have the courtesy to quote your source.

Originally posted by kilauea I'm not wasting my time educating you - read the stats and google for homes with net access.

Do your own homework.

Originally posted by kilauea

And as I already mentioned 31 million people in the year 2000 were living in poverty so by our standards a lot of the USA is a 3rd world country.

Yeah I know. About 1 in 10 of the US population is below the poverty line.
It's 17% of the population in the UK - send money now!

I also know that definitions of poverty vary considerably among nations. For example, rich nations generally employ more generous standards of poverty than poor nations.

Also, could you explain why The Internet Usage World Stats (http://www.internetworldstats.com/top10.htm#pop) has the USA with the largest nimber of internet users quoting a figure of 68.8% of the population as internet users? They seem to have it all wrong. Can you set them straight?

Nomme

Andy78

04-11-2004, 15:08

Originally posted by poppins

I also sent the Osama message, well the invite, one of you posted
that should convince them of how you all feel.

How all of us feel? Correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't all spoken. More to the point, of the people that have spoken, not everyone feels the same. You seem intent on painting a picture that is based on your narrow mindedness by winding up a few people and watching their response. I think you'll find that if you post a topic that has the intention of winding people up; People will get wound up and reply. I hardly think that your limited study can speak for the whole of this forum, sheffield or britain.

wibbles

04-11-2004, 15:13

Phanerothyme

04-11-2004, 15:21

Originally posted by Sidla
What happened to the other 9 World Wars? :confused:

I'm not sure I agree anyway. We blatently wouldn't have won the war if America hadn't intervened.

Or if the Germans hadn't launched Barbarossa and broken the molotov-ribbentrop pact.

Or if...

Or if...

nick2

04-11-2004, 15:26

Originally posted by Andy78
How all of us feel? Correct me if I'm wrong, but we haven't all spoken. More to the point, of the people that have spoken, not everyone feels the same. You seem intent on painting a picture that is based on your narrow mindedness by winding up a few people and watching their response. I think you'll find that if you post a topic that has the intention of winding people up; People will get wound up and reply. I hardly think that your limited study can speak for the whole of this forum, sheffield or britain.

Exactly, I have said I like America and Americans, I'm starting to think I wouldn't like Poppins if I met him/her though.

Titian

04-11-2004, 15:30

Originally posted by poppins
Hi
First off I never said the americans won WW11 for you, as i know it's not true, one of you seemes to enjoy making stuff up.

It all brought out your deep hatred for american people anyhow, who as i keep on saying do not understand why, also don't belive it, i needed to open their eyes, with help i'v been able to spred your words to them by sending your coments around from this thread, that was your intention, wasn't it ?

I also sent the Osama message, well the invite, one of you posted
that should convince them of how you all feel.

You realy have to take what you can dish out.

This must be Chris Morris speaking.

I must say that you are really not doing your cause much good. Seems to me that although you are british? or at least visit Sheffield once a year, you have a deep hatred of the British and choose to vent your spleen here in order to have some dialogue with us.

There are ways to get your point across without being offensive by saying all Brits are on the dole? If you are the one ambassador for the US that visits this site then it is a shame. it's a good thing you are not a diplomat! Where would we be then?

Most people on here have already expressed that some people don't agree with your politics, not "the Americans". This dislike insn't exclusive to American politics either it is our own. Why are we trying to impose democracy on a country that isn't ready for it? It took us 100s of years to aquire democracy! If the reason is the welfare of people then why not invade Africa instead?

You choose to ignore their statements and carry on mud slinging as you have some axe to grind and appear to find pleasure in conflict.

I too have American family but it doesn't mean that I love Bush too.

Perhaps you should go back to work and spend less time worrying about us being on the dole. Or perhaps we are not on the dole and a lot of us on here work from home.

kilauea

04-11-2004, 15:58

Originally posted by nomme
Yes I know. I can read. It would seem you can't. I said "internet users". Not "Number of homes with net access". You conjured that figure up from thin air. If your going to use figures could you please have the courtesy to quote your source.

For the point I was making this figure is not relevant.
To recap I said:
"Internet access is no where near as widespread as it is in the UK"
And it isn't. It is in small pockets round the big cities and often from cybercafes and Uni's. Less than 25% of homes in the US have an internet connected computer.

Do your own homework.

I've done it - I'm still not searching again for you but you will find similar figures in the US Education report and the cenus figures.

Also, could you explain why The Internet Usage World Stats (http://www.internetworldstats.com/top10.htm#pop) has the USA with the largest nimber of internet users quoting a figure of 68.8% of the population as internet users? They seem to have it all wrong. Can you set them straight?

Nomme

You've not bothered reading this have you?
http://www.internetworldstats.com/surfing.htm

IWS use the broadest possible definiton of an internet user out of any other statistic provider. Even broader than the ITU's definition of "someone who has used the net in the last 30 days".
I'm sorry but as I said, as a measure of how widespread intenet acces is in the USA that figure is meaningless.

timo

04-11-2004, 16:02

Poppins, please explain your reference to "dole money"? Are you trying to suggest, in your vulgar, semi-literate posting, that the average Englishman or woman is part of a dependency culture? If so, you are rather wide of the mark. Certainly, an "underclass" of improvident, feckless, drones exists. However, they are in a small minority- fossil peoples living in certain inner-city enclaves. Interesting to note the massive influence of Los Angeles Coca-Cola culture on these evolutionary failures. American popular culture in all its undeniable ugliness and nastiness is being exported via the global market of production and exchange, and transnational corporations to places that, frankly, would be much better off without it. No educated, well-adjusted Englishman or woman would hate the population of a vast continent of diverse peoples. However, I sympathise with anyone who finds much American low art and pop culture moronically-stupid. English people do not, in the main hate Americans; rather, they mistrust current US foreign policy [and that even includes Paleo-Conservatives like my good self], and the idea that Western liberal democracy is the ONLY acceptable form of government. America [or rather American government] on the world stage is beginning to resemble a big, bullying child who insists that it is his party, and that everyone must do as he says. What has happened to the traditional conservative idea of keeping out of other peoples' problems [Iraq], and foreign policy calculated in terms of national interest? The English are growing tired of American neo-conservative, International idealism and interventionism. We also get a tad ****** off when people like you patronise us!

nomme

04-11-2004, 16:16

Originally posted by kilauea

IWS use the broadest possible definiton of an internet user out of any other statistic provider. Even broader than the ITU's definition of "someone who has used the net in the last 30 days".
I'm sorry but as I said, as a measure of how widespread intenet acces is in the USA that figure is meaningless.

But still it just seems to be your opinion - I still haven't seen anything to back up your argument. Can you provide a 'meaningful' figure in your terms?

The page you refered to says this:

"WS adopts as its benchmark a broad definition and defines an Internet User as anyone currently in capacity to use the Internet. In our opinion, there are only two requierements for a person to be considered an Internet User: (1) Access to an Internet connection point, and (2) The basic knowledge required to use the technology."

Sounds reasonable to me.

Nomme

sham71

04-11-2004, 17:14

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3981669.stm

These are a selection of Americans explaining why they voted for Bush.

God help America.

max

04-11-2004, 17:47

Originally posted by sham71
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3981669.stm

These are a selection of Americans explaining why they voted for Bush.

God help America.

Nice link. Hidden among all the hypocrisy about God and Christianity I found one which I thought was closer to the truth:

I voted for Bush because I run a larger corporation that needs him in office. Without the Bush administration's alterations of previously existing law, my company would not be able to make such large profits. The administration has provided the necessary loop holes in environmental and fair competition laws. They have allowed us to exploit the intent of the law without fear of prosecution.
J Black, Atlanta, GA

Pretty much sums up the dollar driven republicans, imo.

royjames

04-11-2004, 17:52

Look at the end of the day the country has made it's choice so stop bitching and moaning and get on with life.
Poppins I also have to say that numerous people have told you they dont dislike american people yet you continue to rant on about everyone hating them.
You also need to think before you post.;)

evildrneil

04-11-2004, 17:53

Originally posted by sham71
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3981669.stm

These are a selection of Americans explaining why they voted for Bush.

God help America.

Now THAT was terrifying - well apart from this one that I appreciated:

I voted for Bush, so that he can clean up all his mess during his second term. No-one else should be made responsible for all his folly and self-disillusioned war on terror. The only war that the world needs to fight is to eradicate poverty, diseases, genocide, atrocity and many unjust situations in many parts of the world. These are the real terrors that breeds human terrorists. Go to the roots of the cause. Don't try to be a fool to treat symptoms of these terrors.

max

04-11-2004, 17:56

Originally posted by royjames
Look at the end of the day the country has made it's choice so stop bitching and moaning and get on with life.

Now, now Roy, you're not trying to limit our right to free speech are you? :nono:

royjames

04-11-2004, 20:24

Lol now Max I woul'd never stop anyone from having their say,but it's all over now .
Of course the liberals can't understand how bush got back,to me it's simple he stands for old fashioned values which is what middle america likes.
Someone said well the coastal states went democrat but hell they nearly always have,same as new york and the east coast but middle america is and always was republican by and large.
To me it's just a shame Bush can't run again because I think he woul'd get back in in 4 yrs unless something out of the ordinary happend. :D

lurkergrrl

04-11-2004, 23:04

Dear world,

Let me apologize for the rest of my country. They're sheep, arrogant sheep who will not be lead by anyone who isn't the same color.

I wanted Kerry to win because of his values. Good old fashioned values like rewarding hardwork and compassion. Because he wanted to play nice with the rest of the world and not kick over everyone else's sand castles. It saddens me that people would sacrifice their own well-being economically and socially just so they could be promised the supposibly moral gains this administration has to offer. I don't know how the term liberal became a bad name. I don't know when it became a sign of weakness to care about others. When it became wrong to want global justice.

Let me assure you, it's going to be worse for those of us in the United States than it is going to be for the world. And it's not my fault. I tried to change things. I'm still trying. But if there is another terrorist attack it will probably take place in one of those blue states -- where half the population lives; because of who the "heartland," the red states, voted for.

But I refuse to give up. Maybe it'll take another four more years, maybe the democrats will regain control of congress in two. But I still believe that hope is on the way for us, even if it's going to be a long time coming. Hope is on the way.

And thank you all for understanding that not everyone in the United States is deserving of your scorn.

We'll try to make things better. I promise.

-jill

Titian

05-11-2004, 07:29

Originally posted by lurkergrrl
Dear world,

Let me apologize for the rest of my country. They're sheep, arrogant sheep who will not be lead by anyone who isn't the same color.

I wanted Kerry to win because of his values. Good old fashioned values like rewarding hardwork and compassion. Because he wanted to play nice with the rest of the world and not kick over everyone else's sand castles. It saddens me that people would sacrifice their own well-being economically and socially just so they could be promised the supposibly moral gains this administration has to offer. I don't know how the term liberal became a bad name. I don't know when it became a sign of weakness to care about others. When it became wrong to want global justice.

Let me assure you, it's going to be worse for those of us in the United States than it is going to be for the world. And it's not my fault. I tried to change things. I'm still trying. But if there is another terrorist attack it will probably take place in one of those blue states -- where half the population lives; because of who the "heartland," the red states, voted for.

But I refuse to give up. Maybe it'll take another four more years, maybe the democrats will regain control of congress in two. But I still believe that hope is on the way for us, even if it's going to be a long time coming. Hope is on the way.

And thank you all for understanding that not everyone in the United States is deserving of your scorn.

We'll try to make things better. I promise.

-jill

Welcome Jill,

We knew Poppins was a minority (and not even American).

I too feel sorry for the innocents, no matter what country they are in, US or Iraq.

Ned Ludd

05-11-2004, 09:57

Bonny, Lurkergrrl what a very good way to round off this thread. There couldn't be a finer ending:)

NatalieSheff

05-11-2004, 10:41

going back to why english people sometimes dislike americans, i personly think its the accents - so drooning! but they prob think that about us. dont care about their politics just wish we didnt follow like a lapdog. never been to usa and ive heard there is fingerprinting now - is that true? itll be retinas scans next! and it does get my goat, that americans think they invented everything and did everytihng first, but saying that - every culture does
god bless america -

timo

05-11-2004, 12:35

Lurkergrrrl,
With respect, you say that Kerry would reward "hard work and compassion". What with exactly? Higher taxation!

Cols

05-11-2004, 13:37

Lifted from another web site.....

To the citizens of the United States of America, In the light of your failure to elect a worthwhile President of the USA and thus to govern yourselves properly, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, effective today.

Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over all states, commonwealths and other territories. Except Utah, which she does not fancy. Your new prime minister (The rt. hon. Tony Blair, MP for the 97.85% of you who have until now been unaware that there is a world outside your borders) will appoint a minister for America without the need for further elections. Congress and the Senate will be disbanded. A questionnaire will be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

1. You should look up "revocation" in the Oxford English Dictionary. Then look up "aluminium". Check the pronunciation guide. You will be amazed at just how wrongly you have been pronouncing it. Generally, you should raise your vocabulary to acceptable levels. Look up "vocabulary". Using the same twenty seven words interspersed with filler noises such as "like" and "you know" is an unacceptable and inefficient form of communication. Look up "interspersed".
2. There is no such thing as "US English". We will let Microsoft know on your behalf.
3. You should learn to distinguish the English and Australian accents. It really isn't that hard.
4. Hollywood will be required occasionally to cast English actors as the good guys.
5. You should relearn your original national anthem, "God Save The Queen", but only after fully carrying out task 1. We would not want you to get confused and give up half way through.

6. You should stop playing American "football". There is only one kind of football. What you refer to as American "football" is not a very good game.
The 2.15% of you who are aware that there is a world outside your borders may have noticed that no one else plays "American" football.

You will no longer be allowed to play it, and should instead play proper football. Initially, it would be best if you played with the girls. It is a difficult game. Those of you brave enough will, in time, be allowed to play rugby (which is similar to American "football", but does not involve stopping for a rest every twenty seconds or wearing full kevlar body armour like nancies). We are hoping to get together at least a US rugby sevens side by 2005.

7. You should declare war on Quebec and France, using nuclear weapons if they give you any merde. The 97.85% of you who were not aware that there is a world outside your borders should count yourselves lucky. The Russians have never been the bad guys.

8. July 4th is no longer a public holiday. November 8th will be a new national holiday, but only in England. It will be called "Indecisive Day".

9. All American cars are hereby banned. They are crap and it is for your own good. When we show you German cars, you will understand what we mean.

10. Please tell us who killed JFK. It's been driving us crazy.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Snook

05-11-2004, 15:31

http://www.enjoythedraft.com/

slimsid2000

05-11-2004, 15:37

OK. Just to even things up a little lets come up with some other countries that we hate. This can be any country in the world for any reason (serious or trivial).

Go on I'm sure we can all think of at least one.It could be in Europe, Africa, the middle east, far east, asia, etc etc.

wibbles

05-11-2004, 15:38

Originally posted by slimsid2000
OK. Just to even things up a little lets come up with some other countries that we hate. This can be any country in the world for any reason (serious or trivial).

Go on I'm sure we can all think of at least one.It could be in Europe, Africa, the middle east, far east, asia, etc etc.

Well we'd have to start a new thread then. We like to keep on topic as much as possible.

JonMMUK

05-11-2004, 15:40

My wife is American. Hence, so are all my in-laws. They are all Democrats too, and voted for Kerry. They're as ****** off as everyone else that Bush got in.

Jon

evildrneil

05-11-2004, 16:05

Originally posted by slimsid2000
OK. Just to even things up a little lets come up with some other countries that we hate. This can be any country in the world for any reason (serious or trivial).

Go on I'm sure we can all think of at least one.It could be in Europe, Africa, the middle east, far east, asia, etc etc.

Once again a countries current political Junta does not equal the country. I'm not a big fan of Bush (as you may have guessed) but America I'm neutral about as its merely geography like any other patch of land!

royjames

05-11-2004, 22:12

For gods sake just be glad that bush got back in and stop moaning all the time.:D

headup

05-11-2004, 22:27

Originally posted by royjames
For gods sake just be glad that bush got back in and stop moaning all the time.:D

Hey Roy

As a British person (?) - what is it about Bush that you like? What does he do for you that makes you glad he's still in power? Do his (and his government's) policies affect you in a positive manner?

royjames

05-11-2004, 22:52

Hi Headup what I like about bush is that he has conviction and I think he is a strong man which is what is needed in these times.
As a right wing person myself I also agree with his views on abortion and gay marriage.
He is a straight and god fearing man and that will do for me.

Greybeard

06-11-2004, 12:27

Originally posted by royjames
Hi Headup what I like about bush is that he has conviction and I think he is a strong man which is what is needed in these times.
As a right wing person myself I also agree with his views on abortion and gay marriage.
He is a straight and god fearing man and that will do for me.

The conviction of Bush is not just right wing, - it is Christian fundamentalist. His power base is the bible-thumping "Thou shalt not" brigade, rooted in the intolerance and racism of the old confederancy.

So now we have these Christian fundamentalists, with the president of the US as their instrument, and the resources of the richest nation in the world at their disposal, fighting the Islamic fundamentalists, mostly from the poorest nations in the world, with both sides heaping death and destruction on anyone who gets caught in the crossfire.
[And ironically the views of these two groups of religious extremists on abortion and gay marriage are probably identical]

And as for patriotism,...the Iraqis who continue the fight against our occupation of their country undoubtedly see themselves as patriots, - just as the French resistance did in WWII. The war in Iraq has nothing to do with Anglo/American patrotism, though that is how it has been sold to us, - but everything to do with the stupidity of one man and his dog.

I think if I were a Christian I'd prefer the god of love to the god of fear.

spyda

11-11-2004, 16:20

http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/

fyybj

11-11-2004, 21:15

Originally posted by spyda
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/1/

Fantastic site, really heartwarming. It's easy to get wrapped up in all the ****e going on at the moment, but it's nice to see people get together in such a way and it gives a little hope for the future.

Sierra

19-11-2004, 06:56

Hello,

I'm an American. I've been lurking now for more than a year on your forum, just reading what you all have to say about your country, your cities, and your everyday lives. I've found it all very interesting. So different from my life in California, but I've never felt the need to reply until now.

Some of you have said some things, whether through ignorance of the facts, or just a dislike of America and/or Americans, that simply aren't true.

While you are all certainly entitled to your opinions, perhaps, as someone who was actually born, raised, and lived here all my life, I can answer any questions any of you have about America, and give you an insider's view of things here. And I hope you would be good enough to answer any of my questions about where you live.

For starters, it's absolutely not true that all Americans are insular, full of themselves, and don't care about life outside of our own borders. I suppose there are those who feel that way. (and it's their loss, because I find learning about life in other countries fascinating) But the US is such a big country geographically, that it's easy to forget about the rest of the world, because we have everything we need right here. No need to look further (for most things, anyway) than your own backyard.

And no. They don't fingerprint everybody. Only if you've been arrested, or are applying for any job working with children, etc. Some employers do background checks, but that's at their discretion, not the governments.

JoeP

19-11-2004, 07:04

Hi Sierra,

Welcome aboard.

We're not all rampant Ameriphobes - I leave that to the French...;)

Never been to California - my favourite bit of the US is Alaska, and I hope to get back there one day. In my experience the only slightly unfriendly reception I got was from a brown bear that took exception to me getting between her and her cubs...

Anyway...hope you find the opportunity to post on other topics here as well, and that you don't find the need to spend all your time defending your homeland!

Joe

Sierra

19-11-2004, 07:29

Well, hey Joe,

Thanks for the welcome! I hope I don't have to spend all my time defending my homeland, either. I really would like the chance to get to know all of you, learn about your corner of the world, and maybe clear up any misconceptions anyone has about mine.

I also would like the opportunity to hear about how/why people in Britain view us Americans. (I'm a glutton for punishment, I know) The English people I've met in the past have been pretty nice as a whole, although there was one man who was very distressed by all the fast food places! And again, if any of you have any questions for me, I'd be happy to try to answer them for you.

Sierra

Phanerothyme

04-07-2005, 12:21

To our American and Yorkie-American forummers -

Happy Independence Day!:D

Well done on throwing off your colonial masters and striking out on your own. Wtg!

Cyclone

04-07-2005, 12:47

This reminds me. GWB certainly hasn't done the "how to make friends and influence people" course has he.

Apparently in an interview screened tonight on ITV he will say that TB shouldn't expect any favours at G8 over Africa or climate change, he's not interested in a quid pro quo relationship and he will only act in the best interests of the American people.

Well, I hope that the next time the USA goes to war they do so on their own.
How he can stick his head in the sand and claim that climate change isn't happening is beyond me.
And how he can be so selfish as to say not to expect any help for Africa and that he will do what is best for the USA I don't know.

Swan_Vesta

04-07-2005, 13:09

Originally posted by Cyclone

How he can stick his head in the sand and claim that climate change isn't happening is beyond me.

I don't think his heads stuck in the sand. I think it may well be firmly wedged somewhere else :D

JBee

04-07-2005, 13:22

I spent three months working as a ride operator in New Jersey, where the clientelle was mainly American. I was treated to such droplets of intelligence as...

"Is England the Capital of London?"

"Do you have eletricity in England?"

"Do you have TV in the UK?"

And my all time favourite, bearing in mind I'm a well-spoken Sheffielder, was...

"Are you trying to speak English?"

Hels

04-07-2005, 13:34

Happy Independence Day :wave:

I visited America on holiday earlier this year - the first time i'd ever been. I met some really wonderful American people. I'd love to be there for Independence Day - I bet it's a great atmosphere.

The one thing I don't like about America (not Americans per se) is the fact that America supported the IRA. I would imagine that if the UK supported Al-Quida, the American people would equally not be impressed with us. MacDonalds were one of the companies known for supporting the IRA and that is the main reason I never set foot inside any of their establishments - the fact that I don't particularly like fast-food doesn't make it a sacrifice though
:hihi:

Sierra

04-07-2005, 13:50

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
To our American and Yorkie-American forummers -

Happy Independence Day!:D

Well done on throwing off your colonial masters and striking out on your own. Wtg!

Thank you, Phan!

I didn't think anyone remembered. lol. I've enjoyed SF very much. I've learned alot about how America is viewed by those of you in that part of the world, which is what I was curious about.

Oh yeah, I'd talk to the folks I knew who lived here now, but were from somewhere else. Most had favorable views of the US because they'd chosen to live here, not exactly unbiased.

Some of you don't bother to sugar coat your opinions, but that's ok. I wanted to hear about the feelings of real people. Not journalists. I certainly got my wish.

I'll be thinking of all of you in the UK today, because without the British colonists, America wouldn't exist. Thanks again Phan, and God bless the SF!

Originally posted by JBee
I spent three months working as a ride operator in New Jersey, where the clientelle was mainly American. I was treated to such droplets of intelligence as...

"Is England the Capital of London?"

"Do you have eletricity in England?"

"Do you have TV in the UK?"

And my all time favourite, bearing in mind I'm a well-spoken Sheffielder, was...

"Are you trying to speak English?"

I'm sorry, JBee. Not all Americans are so ignorant. On the flip side, we once ran into some German tourists who asked us if it was possible to visit Fisherman's Wharf and Disneyland in the same day!

Fisherman's wharf is in San Francisco, and Disneyland is in Anaheim (Los Angeles). A difference of about 500 miles. And they looked annoyed when we pointed out on their map exactly where these two places were, and how long (at least 6-8 hours) it would take to drive there!

:) Sierra

nick2

04-07-2005, 14:20

Originally posted by JBee
I spent three months working as a ride operator in New Jersey, where the clientelle was mainly American. I was treated to such droplets of intelligence as...

"Is England the Capital of London?"

"Do you have eletricity in England?"

"Do you have TV in the UK?"

And my all time favourite, bearing in mind I'm a well-spoken Sheffielder, was...

"Are you trying to speak English?"

Nothing like the high-brow intellectual chit-chat you hear in the bars and cafes down the Moor or Haymarket.

I guess they are dumber questions than your average Brit tourist asks :

"Does it come with chips ?"
"Where is the nearest English pub ?"
"Where can I dry my shellsuit ?"

nightrider

04-07-2005, 14:26

Originally posted by Sierra
Hello,

I'm an American. I've been lurking now for more than a year on your forum, just reading what you all have to say about your country, your cities, and your everyday lives. I've found it all very interesting. So different from my life in California, but I've never felt the need to reply until now.

Some of you have said some things, whether through ignorance of the facts, or just a dislike of America and/or Americans, that simply aren't true.

While you are all certainly entitled to your opinions, perhaps, as someone who was actually born, raised, and lived here all my life, I can answer any questions any of you have about America, and give you an insider's view of things here. And I hope you would be good enough to answer any of my questions about where you live.

For starters, it's absolutely not true that all Americans are insular, full of themselves, and don't care about life outside of our own borders. I suppose there are those who feel that way. (and it's their loss, because I find learning about life in other countries fascinating) But the US is such a big country geographically, that it's easy to forget about the rest of the world, because we have everything we need right here. No need to look further (for most things, anyway) than your own backyard.

And no. They don't fingerprint everybody. Only if you've been arrested, or are applying for any job working with children, etc. Some employers do background checks, but that's at their discretion, not the governments.

Yes they do. You have your thumbprints taken when you get a driving licence in california.

Sierra

04-07-2005, 14:37

Originally posted by nightrider
Yes they do. You have your thumbprints taken when you get a driving licence in california.

Yes, you are right. I live and drive in California, and I know about the thumbprint. I assumed they meant a full set of fingerprints.

:) Sierra

Wattsy

04-07-2005, 15:26

Yanks always moaning. talk a load of rubbish

Chicago

04-07-2005, 18:19

Wattsy,

Happy July 4th! :hihi:

royjames

04-07-2005, 18:46

Well I for one think the americans are great,they know how to enjoy life.
Good old US of A

ryanborden

06-07-2005, 00:03

Well.. I am American. Buuuuuut I moved to England (Thetford, Norfolk) when I was 5 years old at the end of October 1986; well over 18 years ago. So really I'm more English than American.. It's odd, I'm very much a hybrid, English people think my accent sounds American, Americans think I'm English and I can choose to put on dialects. I often act as a translator between people as well!
Anyways, WHY the dislike of Americans? The English and the Americans have probably THE strongest international connection in the world and together they would probably be THE dominant superpower (America pretty much IS). I don't know where I'm going with this, I just have to make 5 posts to PM!
Ryan

lizzmobile

07-07-2005, 22:47

Re infancy death rates in the us: could it be due to the high caesarian section and low breastfeeding rates?

algy

07-07-2005, 22:54

Originally posted by Greybeard
Poppins

One of the reasons Americans are so disliked is the little matter of terrorism. For years many Americans. including some of your leading politicians, openly supported and funded the IRA in it's campaign of terror in the UK.

The moment the US is hit by the same kind of terror your president comes out with the crass statement that "those who aren't with us are against us". Well most of us aren't with you in Iraq even if our politicians, like many US politicians were duped into supporting Bush in what is turning out to be an unjustifiable bloodbath with no end in sight.

And it's conveniently overlooked that the Taliban and Al Quaeda are both creatures of US foreign policy, armed and funded to harras the Russians in Afghanistan. Now they're rabid dogs that have turned on their former masters. Memory is also short when it comes to Saddam Hussein, another former instrument of US foreign policy at the time of his war with Iran. It didn't seem to matter then that he was a murderous despot, so long as he did your dirty work for you.

As for or WWII - it's debateable whether the US would have declared war on Germany if Hitler hadn't signed up to an alliance with Japan. The possible success of a German victory over Russia and a link up with Japan was probably more important in Americam considerations than the fate of the UK and the rest of Europe at the hands of Nazi Germany.

I've never encountered an American I disliked on a personal level, but the often insular and ignorant public face of many of your politicians can be quite repulsive.
Says it all. What can you add? Bye Poppins. it was nice knowing you.

Locker

08-07-2005, 00:50

Hey all,

I happen to be an American myself. 36 years old, born in Pennsylvania, living in California (no finger or thumb print required for my driver's license). I came to this board because of a user that I happen to be friendly with and for some reason a piece of information from a gentleman named Max in this thread compelled me to post.

I just cannot understand how one of the wealthiest countries in the world has one of the highest infancy death rates.

That statement seems very out of synch with information readily available on the net. This link is to a cia site but you can find it elsewhere if you like:

(Ok so I can't post a link till I make five forum posts but you can find it by googling for: infant mortality rates by country. The fifth link should be to the CIA world fact book.)

The lower the Ranking the higher the death rate, lets take a look at top, bottom, UK and USA:

Rank 1 - Angola - 191.19/1000 infants die
Rank 185 - USA - 6.50/1000 infants die
Rank 199 - UK - 5.16/1000 infants die
Rank 226 - Singapore - 2.29/1000 infants die

Based on this info the UK and USA are about 1.34/1000 apart which, based on the min and max are almost identical and nowhere near "one of the highest infancy death rates".

I would also like to commend all of the folks in this thread who put forth the idea that blanket statements about Americans (or English, Arabs, Jews, Women, Gays, Chavs, etc) are generally inaccurate and don't reflect the extremely wide diversity you experience when speaking with individuals.

In the USA there are liberals, conservatives, rich, poor, middle class, gay, straight, insane, bush lovers, bush haters and every other combination you can images, just like in any other country/group.

I would be happy to give any insight requested from the perspective of this particular American and welcome any thoughtful discussion on a wide range of subjects.

Wonderful place you have here and I hope to visit frequently.

Peace,

Locker
Rocklin, CA

Sierra

08-07-2005, 02:37

OMG! A fellow Californian! Come back! Come back!

Rocklin, you say? I live not that far from you in Modesto! I was born in San Francisco, grew up in the Bay Area, and live in the valley now.

Which DMV did you get your license at where you didn't have to give your thumbprint? I've been driving since I was 17, and I'm pretty sure they only started the thumbprint business in the '80's. I can't remember.

Anyway, nice to see someone from Rocklin here, and welcome to the forum!

:) Sierra

Locker

08-07-2005, 04:39

Got my Cali license in 1997 in San Diego so down there in Clairemont Mesa and used the DMV up here when I moved, in Rocklin.

Peace,

Locker

owdlad

08-07-2005, 06:40

Any chance of some cheap board and lodgings when I come over there next year?

BTW I think most Americans are good and honest people, just as I think that every race coulour and creed has a majority of good & honest people.

You have more A holes in the States simply because there are more of you, but the percentage is the same the world over ;)

PopT

08-07-2005, 09:11

To openly declare that you hate Americans is akin to saying you hate people from every country in the world.

The Americans are as different and as diverse as anybody in any country in the world.

The one thing they do have in common though is they love America and declare it everyday in their schools and institutions.

At sometime in their family's history they have left their emigrated there and believe in supporting America their new home.

It is a pity a lot of our emigrants do not feel the same way with regards to the UK.

Anyone travelling through American will soon realise that each State is like a different country with its own history and adopted customs, speech,music etc.

On saying this they all firmly believe in the United States and their adopted country.

I have travelled there extensively and met all kinds of people most of them I liked but others I hated as in any other country but it is a mistake to tarnish the reputation of all Americans by the actions of a few.

Many people condemn some of their foreign policies as I do but do not forget the amount of money they give away and a whole lot of good they do all over the world.

Happy Days

scottishdude

08-07-2005, 09:11

POINT TO PONDER ON.
America is a young nation compared with a lot of other countries. It is the result of a bunch of European immigrants and people who were not wanted in their own countries. These people then decided to fight over "their new home" resulting in many wars by few people over a vast area of land. Typical Western mentality.
I wonder how America would have turned out if it had been left to the native Americans. Would it be a greater nation or just another "Third World Country"
Incidently, Third World Country is a western "civilisation" phrase.

hazel

08-07-2005, 12:28

Am I the only one who is glad Poppins is still with us.

She adds to the rich tapestry of Sheffield Forum that I enjoy.
She has a good sense of humour and is not afraid to speak her mind and holds her ground against great odds. !!
In fact a Sheffielder.
long may she stay.

hazel

owdlad

08-07-2005, 18:59

Originally posted by hazel
Am I the only one who is glad Poppins is still with us.

She adds to the rich tapestry of Sheffield Forum that I enjoy.
She has a good sense of humour and is not afraid to speak her mind and holds her ground against great odds. !!
In fact a Sheffielder.
long may she stay.

hazel

I am with you on that Hazel, Poppins adds some good comments to the forum (when she can get logged on that is) and as you say she will fight her corner with the best of them. :thumbsup:

headup

08-07-2005, 19:59

Originally posted by Sierra

Which DMV did you get your license at where you didn't have to give your thumbprint? I've been driving since I was 17, and I'm pretty sure they only started the thumbprint business in the '80's. I can't remember

:) Sierra

I sinerely believe that the DMV is closly modeled on Hell. At least, the one in Santa Monica is.

I need to get me a Texas license now as I'm no-longer a cali-dude.

The Texas license also allows you to hunt 'varmints' and say "y'all".

back2basics

08-07-2005, 20:06

I think people need to realize that right now Americans hate Americans. I am back over here, and let me tell you I have never known anything like the current situation in this country. The country is so divided. Families not talking to each other because of conflicting views. Friends not speaking after years of knowing each other. People run off the road for sporting anti-war bumper stickers. The language of hatred everywhere, not a week goes by without somebody else comparing the actions of others to Nazis or Hitler.

The divide is between two ideologies, but the divide has IMHO been exasperated by political wedge issues. Politicians here learnt that certain inflammatory issues could be used to mobilize “their base”. These issues are used every day. Never have I know politicians advocating day after day, war on liberals/conservatives. This has always been the land of conspiracy, but today it reaches epidemic proportions. The red, blue divide has never been as big and it’s getting bigger ever day. America could be on its way to banning abortion, this is the (along with gay rights) the biggest wedge issue in America today. There is no compromise on these issues, people are dug in for a fight.

These issues have always been around, but everybody I speak to have never known America so divided. The reason is that today the politicians, rather than running on a positive message for the future run on divisive language.

So while you all argue about hating or loving America/Americans you are all missing the point. The county has roughly 130 Million who agree with you and 130 Million who do not. At the moment I guess you are all talking about the 50 million who either did, or did not vote for Bush. Somebody mentioned the election results being an indication that Americans agree with the policy, well the election was extremely close, I think when the votes were fully counted it came down to around 200,000 votes in Ohio or Florida (either state going to Kerry would have given him the Presidency). Even the popular vote was close.

How can either side be anti-American when, which ever stance you take, you are only talking about 50% (well less really as if your talking about policy your talking about just over 50 Million) of the population? So understand, that if you are talking about policy, Bush’s approval rating is 43% so the majority of Americans also agree with you.

Be aware of this, the hate talk in this country is worse than ANY country I have been to. ANY. The things said about Americans in this thread pail in to insignificance compared to come of the pure hatred being spoken in this country, today. Much of the hatred, amazingly is coming from the evangelicals who are mobilized against gays and abortion. You would not believe some of the inflammatory rhetoric you hear on talk radio and some of the news stations. I will tell you this, some of the things said on talk radio, and even by politicians are worse than the bloody BNP and these are mainstream parties, not fringe nationalist parties.

Another pointless (IMO) part of this thread is how many Americans have web access. Who cares? Like the web is some bastion of truth? There is more dis-information and rhetoric on the web than all of the rest of the media combined. People ALWAYS seek out “news” that re-enforces their views and the internet re-enforces any view you want. People are just getting used to finding info on the web, and many are getting it wrong.

I am not sure what will re-unite this country, but I know 9/11 only succeeded for a few short months. It needs a brave politician to come forward and change the rhetoric away from the wedge, back to a bright and united future.

Locker

08-07-2005, 20:28

Very good post man and I'd have to say that my experience and understanding of the situation here in the USA is very similar to what you've described here.

Personally I have extremely frequent thoughts of leaving this country and moving to Canada or Holland or somewhere where I don't feel ashamed to be a citizen.

Peace,

Locker

JoeP

08-07-2005, 21:13

Originally posted by hazel
Am I the only one who is glad Poppins is still with us.

She adds to the rich tapestry of Sheffield Forum that I enjoy.
She has a good sense of humour and is not afraid to speak her mind and holds her ground against great odds. !!
In fact a Sheffielder.
long may she stay.

hazel

I had a nice e-mail from Poppins yesterday afternoon ofering her condolences after the London bombing.

Just want to say publicly, thanks!

I know she's having PC problems right now, but whilst we may occasionally disagree, it will be nice to see her back!

pattricia

08-07-2005, 21:48

Hate Americans ? Never,Never,Never! Where did you get that from Poppy? We love em,dont we Sheffielders? We dont like American Politicians ,but we do like everyday Americans.How may countries say "Have a nice day?" When leaving a restaurant. Ever been to New England ? Much better than Florida,They love English people there,especially if your from Yorkshire.They cant understand what you say, but they love u. Mind you they do think everyone from England is either from Scotland or London, with nothing in between.I do think though that we supported the tourist industry after 9/11,better than the Americans coming over here on holiday.Will they still come over now after the London bombings?

Greybeard

08-07-2005, 22:14

back2basics, - that was an interesting post. Most people in UK take little interest in US politics except for the presidential elections. Bush looks to have his back increasingly to the wall these days and I imagine he and his cronies will fight pretty dirty in that situation, and of course they'll be looking for inflammatory issues to divert attention from the situation in Iraq.

Incidentally there was an article by Ed Harriman in the LRB recently which I wonder if any US journal would risk publishing ?

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v27/n13/harr04_.html

boyface

08-07-2005, 22:26

Its kinda late and Im tired and thus cant be bothered to read all the thread, but just thought I'd add...

I just got back off my hols and the amount of people who spoke to me and felt the need to say early on " Dont worry, Im Canadian, not American" was pretty astounding.

Make of that what you will.

robbie

08-07-2005, 23:24

America as a collective is horrid.

Mostf Americans however are really sound

However, enough of you voted for Bush (86 IQ)that makes us kinda think about it.

Locker

09-07-2005, 00:14

I'm curious about how much folks know about the electorial process in the US and how little the common vote by the citizens actually means. Here is a cool link that describes the process:

http://people.howstuffworks.com/electoral-college.htm

Peace,

Locker

mojoworking

09-07-2005, 03:00

Originally posted by robbie
America are w******

A lot of Americans are really sound

However, enough of you voted for Bush (86 IQ)that makes us kinda think about it.

Enough British people voted for Thatcher. Does that make us stupid too?

Don't be silly robbie

Sierra

09-07-2005, 03:16

Originally posted by headup
I sinerely believe that the DMV is closly modeled on Hell. At least, the one in Santa Monica is.

I need to get me a Texas license now as I'm no-longer a cali-dude.

The Texas license also allows you to hunt 'varmints' and say "y'all".

Oh yeah. Can't you just see Hell's waiting room looking like the DMV? Scary how it actually resembles the waiting room for the "Recently Deceased" in Beetlejuice.

http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hv&id=1800033734&cf=info

headup. You used to be in San Diego, right? You and the missus moved? Hows things in Texas? The husband and I spent some time in San Antonio and loved it there!

The mexican food in Texas easily rivals that of California. Otherwise, I don't think we could have managed to stay there. lol.

:) Sierra

tulip

09-07-2005, 05:27

Originally posted by evildrneil
Don't confuse a dislike of American politics with a dislike of Americans... It is so common for people to say I HATE AMERICANS just because of politics. If we hated every nation and country because of their political regemes we'd have to hate ourselves too:confused:

DanSumption

09-07-2005, 06:07

I'm tempted to say in response to the initial post on this thread, "why do the majority of Americans have a chip on their shoulder about the English hating them?" but my sarcasm would no doubt go over the heads of most Americans :D (That, by the way, was a second sarcastic comment).

I have loads of American friends, and relatives over there too, and I know that the vast majority of Americans are very generous, decent people. But there are enough who aren't to tarnish the image of the rest. Back2basics described the current situation perfectly. It scares me.

I do think perhaps there is more of a confrontational ethos in the USA, and that's contributed to what's going on now. A friend of mine returned from Washington a couple of years ago and told me how disheartening he found US politics, in that it's not enough just to be right, you have to really grind your opponent's face in the dirt at the same time (and he was saying this in respect of groups of liberal people he'd been hanging out with whose ideas he generally agreed with). Sadly, like most American culture, we seem to be gradually moving this way too.

And then, of course, there are tossers like this (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050707/325/fmw5r.html), who really do your country no favours.

InvalidUser

09-07-2005, 09:50

Originally posted by DanSumption
And then, of course, there are tossers like this (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050707/325/fmw5r.html), who really do your country no favours.
From the site:
Making no mention of the fatalities or casualties of the blasts, the singer's statement concluded, "He would like his fans to pray that he has a safe trip and a safe return home. He appreciates your support."
I'm praying alright, I'm praying he falls under a bus.

DanSumption

09-07-2005, 09:58

"He wasn't hurt or anything, but just the fact that he was there and all that."
Yeah, I'm praying too, and all that.

robbie

09-07-2005, 12:32

Originally posted by mojoworking
Enough British people voted for Thatcher. Does that make us stupid too?

Don't be silly robbie

erm yes, stupid and greedy.

things change though.

JoeP

09-07-2005, 12:41

Originally posted by DanSumption

And then, of course, there are tossers like this (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050707/325/fmw5r.html), who really do your country no favours.

<rant>

My God....

The audacity of that singer! What an irritating little squit! Who the heck IS Omarion and who were B2K???

If he has any UK fans I hope they see what sort of egotistical, self important little prig he is and kick him where it hurts, right in the wallet.

</rant off>

There, I feel much better now.

Joe

headup

09-07-2005, 14:27

Originally posted by Sierra

headup. You used to be in San Diego, right? You and the missus moved? Hows things in Texas? The husband and I spent some time in San Antonio and loved it there!

The mexican food in Texas easily rivals that of California. Otherwise, I don't think we could have managed to stay there. lol.

:) Sierra

Yeah - I got a job out here and we moved from the fantastic temperatures and ridiculous house prices of San Diego to the baking heat and affordable living of Austin.

My parents are out here (just had a daughter - yay!) and I am consuming as much of my mum's Yorkshire pudding and fish n' chips as possible.

On the note of division in the US that was mentioned in an earlier post, I think that if there's one city to perfectly represent that divide, it's Austin. You get bumper stickers here for both sides. Plenty of pro-bush, pro-war and the same for anti-bush, anti-war. It's an island of democrat tech-industry people surrounded by republican cowboys driving Ford F-150s.

My former home in San Diego was right next to Camp Pendleton Marine Corps base....as you can imagine, there were plenty of pro-war stickers there although most of the civvy people I knew were completely opposed to the war. You'd NEVER see an anti-war sticker though, for fear of being lynched. On the flip side, I'd visit San Francisco and see plenty of 'bUCK fUSH' bumper stickers (oh, the comedy!) and anti-war stuff all over the place.

DanSumption

09-07-2005, 14:57

My cousin lives in San Diego. When I visited him, 18 years ago, the INS guy at LAX airport said "you don't have enough money on you to visit our country. The only reason I'm letting you in is because you have a return ticket".

Judging by the tales I've heard from friends who've visited the US, airport staff have got a lot less friendly since those halcyon days. My business partner flew to New Zealand last Christmas, via LA: they detained his girlfriend for three hours, meaning that she missed her connecting flight. They wouldn't let him wait for her, so the two of them had to fly separately from LA to New Zealand. It wasn't as if they even wanted to stop off in the US. Roll on Airbus A380, then we can fly straight over without worrying about these little Hitlers.

I am unlikely ever to visit the USA again (at least, not unless there are major changes) just because of the numerous horror stories I've heard about getting through US customs. Like I said before, I have loads of US friends and family, and there is so much there I've yet to see, but I really don't think it's worth the risk (because I know that if I were in a situation like that I would probably give them a piece of mind and end up spending a few days cooling off in a holding pen).

Sierra

09-07-2005, 17:07

Originally posted by JoePritchard
<rant>

My God....

The audacity of that singer! What an irritating little squit! Who the heck IS Omarion and who were B2K???

If he has any UK fans I hope they see what sort of egotistical, self important little prig he is and kick him where it hurts, right in the wallet.

</rant off>

There, I feel much better now.

Joe

I feel the same way, Joe. Never heard of him. You Brits sure you don't want to keep him? :hihi:

Congratulations on your daughter, headup! Is she a native Californian, or a Texan? Texas, like California and much of the west, is changing as more people move to the area. Have you been to New Mexico lately? Wow. Arizona, too. There's a huge migration of Californians going to Arizona. Our neighbors sold their home here, went to Tempe, and bought a mansion with the money! No, really. A MANSION. They sent pictures. Also, the Pacific Northwest has changed quite a bit, Oregon and Washington state. But I don't believe I'll ever leave California again to live elsewhere. It's home.

And you'd be surprised at how many conservative people there actually are in San Francisco.They're just very quiet about it, that's all. Even in ultra liberal Berkeley. Some folks with liberal leanings are just more vocal and in-your-face.

I'm very sorry DanSumption, to hear how rudely you and others were treated by US customs. These people are all overworked and underpaid, and I'm certainly NOT excusing their nasty behavior! I have a Canadian friend who was hassled relentlessly by these bozos every time she wanted to visit here. But there is a HUGE problem in the US with people overstaying their visits, and unfortunately, they usually take it out on the law abiding. My husband has a Pakistani co-worker who came here on a student visa in 1986. And just never left. He got a job, married, had kids, etc. He's a nice guy and all, but he's still here. I personally know of quite a few others, too.

Please don't let some rude person on a power trip put you off a visit to the US. If they are really out of line, get a name, time of day and place they're working, and write a letter to their supervisor or the person in charge. I guarantee you, if enough complaints come in about a certain person, they'll be history. Just take action AFTER they've let you go.

If it makes you feel any better, they also hassle native born Americans. My mexican-american former brother in law was almost denied entry back into the US after visiting family in Mexico City. Just like Cheech Marin in this movie http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/born_in_east_la/about.php

It probably didn't help that my sister first got angry and indignant about it, (When I heard this story, I almost felt sorry for the customs officials. My sister has a fierce temper!) then hysterical at the prospect of being forced to leave her husband behind.

She eventually did leave him behind when she divorced him some years later, but that's another story!

:) Sierra

buck

09-07-2005, 18:27

I've waited a long time since Poppins made her original post to comment. In the first moments I thought her comments were inappropriate and untrue. But it opened up a spate of unamericanism that clearly shows she was right.
I am a Sheffielder who in 1968 decided to try my hand in the most decent country on earth, Canada. Montreal quickly became my beloved and still is.
In 1977 my American company asked me to move into New England, which I did with some trepidation. My fears were soon eased as I joined a society who welcomed me with open arms, offering to make my new home a place to live and enjoy.
In 1979 I attained my green card, and eventuallly became a citizen.
So I need to make some comments on the antiAmerican statements made here.
Yes, there is a history of isolationism here. It was caused by the millions of Europeans who came here to escape the horrors of European life at the turn of the 20th century. It apples to sport as well as other things. Baseball has a world championship that nobody else can compete in, so does our brand of football. We had no interest in soccer, or rugby, or cycling.
Today we have millioms of American kids playing soccer, so someday you may see us become a world power at it. Wales beat us 77 to 3 at rugby. Don't laugh too long. Lance Armstong isnt the only one of us winning in the TDF. Look at he GC.
The point is we're trying hard to join the world in sport, and we like to win.
Somebody made the inane statement that we were behind in internet use. Where do you think the internet comes from in the first place? Millions of us use it from our homes. Microsoft and intel are American companies.
No American suggests that we won the war single handed. That is a myth created by Hollywood. If you believe every thing that Los Angeles suburb tells you, you are a moron. But I will say this as a wartime English brat, we would have had a very hard time, even more than we did, if not for America. The dreaded Spam helped us survive as well as all the soldiers and airmen who came to help, and never went home.
True we somehow don't always find the right person to lead us, and we're stuck with our choice for too long. But eventually we get it right and we will again.

DanSumption

09-07-2005, 19:40

Hi Sierra,

I realise most of those US Customs nazis are no doubt frustrated people who take their frustrations out on the only people they have power over, and I also realise the aren't representative of US people as a whole. It just scares me - perhaps irrationaly, but it does all the same. I've heard stories of people being locked up and virtually tortured for days on end: I realise these are extreme and very rare, but I know they do happen. I've had my fair share of nightmarish customs experiences, and I don't really want any more.

I'd love the visit the US again, but there are many other places in the world where I have friends I'd also like to visit, and as long as I keep hearing bad things about US Customs then I'll keep putting off my next visit.

alchresearch

09-07-2005, 20:22

Originally posted by buck
No American suggests that we won the war single handed. That is a myth created by Hollywood. If you believe every thing that Los Angeles suburb tells you, you are a moron.

We don't, but having them as the main 'spokesman' of America does the country no favours. But is their output pandering to the American people? I haven't been to the cinema for several years because the films are so dire.

I have no direct ill feeling or malice to any particular Americans, just the way American policies are portrayed on a global scale - refusing to cut global emissions, invading countries thousands of miles away and then having the gall to call the freedom fighters and resistance 'insurgents', and a president whose dad and his friends got him the job and cannot even eat a snack or ride a bicycle without almost killing himself.

If that's not the way it is, then I apologise. But that is the way America is shown in the world media. I, and many like me, cannot afford the time nor money to visit America to see it for myself (although I dearly would), so our opinions are based on TV, radio and newspapers.

DanSumption

09-07-2005, 20:55

More "spokesmen" for America who do their country no favours here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1524852,00.html).

buck

10-07-2005, 04:22

Know what, Dan Sumption, you speak as if we really care about the fact that you don't want to visit us. I shall continue to enjoy my life as it is in this supposed evil place, taking my canoe down a wide and quiet river totally devoid of other human beings, cooking a caught fish on an open fire without ever knowing or caring if you are too afraid of us.
Do you honestly think we are 300 Million people all loving Bush, supporting our actions in Iraq, agreeing to environmental destruction. and faithfully watching every movie Hollywood produces.
We are not perfect, but from what I read in the forum neither are you. You have your yobboes, your chavs. Worse still your insufferable snobs, of which we are not so inundated as yourselves, thank the lord.

DanSumption

10-07-2005, 07:24

Know what, buck, you speak as if you haven't actually read anything I wrote, and have decided to form an opinion based on your own fantasy-world idea of what I think.

If you're going to insult somebody, please at least have the decency to read what they've said first.

Nimrod

11-07-2005, 22:48

Nice one buck, dont worry too much about the anti american comments regularly posted on this forum- the plebs who post them wouldnt recognise a true friend even if they had one.

DanSumption

11-07-2005, 22:56

Nimrod,

I wrote on this thread "I have loads of American friends, and relatives over there too, and I know that the vast majority of Americans are very generous, decent people" and buck replies with a deliberately provocative post, asking me "Do you honestly think we are 300 Million people all loving Bush, supporting our actions in Iraq, agreeing to environmental destruction. and faithfully watching every movie Hollywood produces."

Who's the pleb here?

Nimrod

11-07-2005, 23:24

Steady Dan, I wasnt getting at you, but along with poppins I get the impression that a lot of our forummers find it "cool" to show a dislike of americans. Personally I find that I have more in common with the typical American than with our European partners.

DanSumption

11-07-2005, 23:58

Hmm, differences between Americans and Europeans... seems We are not afraid (http://www.werenotafraid.com/), but some Americans are (http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/e362068e-c015-403a-9eb0-0175b83d2519.lpf).

alchresearch

12-07-2005, 12:13

Originally posted by Nimrod
Steady Dan, I wasnt getting at you, but along with poppins I get the impression that a lot of our forummers find it "cool" to show a dislike of americans. Personally I find that I have more in common with the typical American than with our European partners.

Maybe it's not about being 'cool' but a reflection of how the general public feel?

DanSumption

12-07-2005, 12:30

Also how the media feels, and manipulates us to feel. I personally feel rather stupid for posting the above link last night, it was a cheap shot and unnecessary. Yet this morning I wake up to find that most of the UK media has gone far more overboard than me in condemning US "cowardice".

JonJParr

12-07-2005, 12:43

I have nothing against Americans at all. They do seem to be quite inward-looking and dominated by their own national affairs (and interests!). I do think it's quite telling that of a population of around 280 million only 21.7%* hold passports. But then, when you've got a country that big that varies so much from place to place - do you need to leave?

* Source: US Passport Agency. 2002: 60,884,784 passports were issued

retep

12-07-2005, 13:47

I'd sooner stand back to back with the Americans than most of our so called European partners.

jiggiley

28-07-2005, 15:19

Well, I moved out to Orlando in March this year from Sheffield. I had a completely open mind as I had never been to America before.

A lot of you are correct in thinking that American's really don't know alot outside of their own place of residence. If one more person asks me where I am from (England), the says 'ah London' i've always wanted to go there, I will SCREAM! Okay, maybe this is just a few but everyone I have spoken to so far has said the same bar one who actually had been to Sheffield. (how quaint).

As for the fact they all seem happier and more helpful in their jobs, be it restaurants, taxis, hotels etc - that's because it is customary for them to survive on tips. WAKE-UP, they are being nice to earn a LARGER TIP. If you had to survive on tips in the UK wouldn't you be smiles all day long. I think so. And it does become annoying after a while. At least we don't sugar coat things, we tell it as it is. Please.

AND, what kind of a country doesn't allow kids under 21 to drink, but allows them to take their driving test at 15 and drive around in one of those STUPID STUPID SUV's (compulsary to 99% of residents). Great idea, safe as houses. Driving test for those of you who aren't familiar consists of driving round a deserted parking lot for 5 minutes, parking, reversing and doing a 3 point turn. Well that stands us all in good stead doesn't it now, I feel much safer on them there roads !

On the brighter side, myself and my husband are going to try and travel around a little just to see if another part of the US can restore our faith in the country.

:help:

Sierra

28-07-2005, 17:31

Originally posted by jiggiley
Well, I moved out to Orlando in March this year from Sheffield. I had a completely open mind as I had never been to America before.

A lot of you are correct in thinking that American's really don't know alot outside of their own place of residence. If one more person asks me where I am from (England), the says 'ah London' i've always wanted to go there, I will SCREAM! Okay, maybe this is just a few but everyone I have spoken to so far has said the same bar one who actually had been to Sheffield. (how quaint).

As for the fact they all seem happier and more helpful in their jobs, be it restaurants, taxis, hotels etc - that's because it is customary for them to survive on tips. WAKE-UP, they are being nice to earn a LARGER TIP. If you had to survive on tips in the UK wouldn't you be smiles all day long. I think so. And it does become annoying after a while. At least we don't sugar coat things, we tell it as it is. Please.

AND, what kind of a country doesn't allow kids under 21 to drink, but allows them to take their driving test at 15 and drive around in one of those STUPID STUPID SUV's (compulsary to 99% of residents). Great idea, safe as houses. Driving test for those of you who aren't familiar consists of driving round a deserted parking lot for 5 minutes, parking, reversing and doing a 3 point turn. Well that stands us all in good stead doesn't it now, I feel much safer on them there roads !

On the brighter side, myself and my husband are going to try and travel around a little just to see if another part of the US can restore our faith in the country.

:help:

Yes. PLEASE. Travel around the country and see the rest of it. Don't restrict your myopic view of such an enormous country, with a population of 296 million people to one tiny corner of Orlando, Florida. I would also suggest that you start reading about America. There is alot to learn and alot to see. In fact, most natives (myself included) never see the entire country in their lives. It's just too damn big.

This site, has plenty of opinions on the US. Not all of them good, but that's ok. You get the views of real people and their experiences, which I consider to be invaluable.http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/North_America/TravelGuide-North_America.html

Learn a little about American history. It will help you to understand seemingly (to you, because you're from somewhere else) incomprehensible customs and trends. Such as some people's love of SUV's. I don't have one, nor would I ever drive one of those behemoth vehicles, but I would imagine that seeing monstrous American cars when you're used to seeing smaller British cars must be something of a shock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_states

Visit California. It's a beautiful state, and I'm not just saying that because it's where I'm from. It is a unique and interesting place with a colorful history of it's own, and things happen here like no where else on the planet. I am constantly stunned at how much California influences the rest of the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California

I'm sorry, but I think you have the bit about the driver's test wrong. Kids are allowed to get their driving permit at 15. Which means that they can drive on surface streets only if they are accompanied by a licensed driver older than 18. They are not allowed to drive after midnight, and they must have 100 hours (50 of those at night) and six months of driving experience and be 16 years of age before they even apply for a driver's license.

I don't know what you saw in the parking lot, but it sure wasn't a driver's test. To get a permit at 15, THEY DON'T TAKE A ROAD TEST. Only a written test. And some service people may be greasing the skids trying to get a bigger tip from customers, but from what I've read and heard from visitors, American service people are more polite.

We Americans are called insular, close-minded, arrogant and ignorant. And while that may be true of a few of us, I find we are obliged to endure quite a bit of close mindedness, ignorance, and arrogance ourselves.

Like your post above. Please. Don't embarrass yourself and behave like my Iranian neighbor. Who bends my ear about the ills and evils of America, American society and the American people. All the while, benefiting from the booming California real estate market and US economy in general, which has made him a wealthy man. What is unspoken between us is the fact that he hails from a country so effed up...that he is unable to live, or raise his family there. It isn't safe. And if it's so bad here? Why does he stay?

So what if things are different here? This is the way we do things. You may not understand because where you come from, things are done your way. What's wrong with that? I'm not saying you aren't allowed to have criticisms of us, of course you are. But please. Open your mind a little. Enjoy living here. I know it must get on your last nerve when you tell people you're from England, and they automatically assume you live in London.

I get the same sh*t when I tell people I'm from California. They assume I live on the beach, and the entire state is like Baywatch on TV. There are stereotypes of anyplace. I sincerely hope that you enjoy your time with us, and at least try to understand our laws and customs. And if you're still unhappy....

Well. Plane flights go both ways across the Atlantic.

:) Sierra

Juicyb125

28-07-2005, 17:46

Originally posted by poppins

In fact i wouldn't dare tell the americans here (MY family) included just what you all think about them

what you ALL think about them?

Gross generalisation - you don't know what I think about the Americans unless you have a crystal ball there.

back2basics

28-07-2005, 17:52

Sierra

28-07-2005, 18:28

Originally posted by back2basics
Florida is a werid place. Most of the people i know don't like Florida at all. It has a reputaion even in America. Every weird news story always seems to come from Florida. Try travelling, it's not that bad everywhere. Mind you, in 6 years i have only met 4 people that knew i was from somewhere else but London, while i could place an American pretty acuratly.. I get "are you Australian?" quiet a bit. My theory is, apart from the south, accents do not vary that much, state to state. So people do not have the practice with accents as we do in the U.K, which has so many accents its hard for even us. My advise would be try a big city that makes its money on something other than tourism. I love both coasts (NY, Boston and LA) and Chicago, much more normal and cosmopoliton.

On drinking age, after a while i actually think a higher drinking age in the UK would be good. By the time they are 21 American kids have tried many things, while English kids basically just know how to drink without throwing up. Of course i know it would never happen, and i also know there are exceptions on both sides.

Also remember when you move to any new country, you spend the first few years comparing everything to your home country, mainly finding the things you do not like as much. It taks a while to put everything in the perspective it deserves.

On tips, probably the worst service i have ever had in the World has been in America. Tips really do not work here in the big cities, people are still slow and bringyou the wrong things... and no amount of scripted "have a nice day" will help that.

Very, very, true back2basics. I think that I (for an American) have a good "ear" for accents, but the British ones (with the exception of one Cockney fellow I worked with) are the hardest.

I felt like an ignorant oaf recently. (not for the first time, heh) I attended a work function of the husband's, and spent some time talking to a lovely couple. After awhile, I felt pretty safe in inquiring if they were Australian. Turns out they were from New Zealand! I apologized profusely, they were pretty nice about it, but the wife turned to her better half and said, "she's come the closest yet, hasn't she, luv?" Meaning, most Americans also thought they were British!

True also about Southern accents. Big difference between the accent of a person from Charleston, South Carolina. (IMO, the loveliest in the deep south, and the Carolinas) and someone from Alabama, or Mississippi, or even Georgia.

All in all, I would say, make the best of wherever you are. Things will be more pleasant. Look at it this way, spending time in the US will give you lots of stories to tell your family and friends.

:) Sierra