I`ve lost count of the number of times that subjects have been discussed on the SF which virtually every person I`ve ever met are in complete agreement on and yet there are still people who will disagree with the position.

Is it that they`re just arguing for the sake of it, playing Devils advocate ?

Do the really believe what they say (or should that be write) ?

Is it just that people are prepared to be honest about how anti social they really are when they`re speaking anonymously ?

There are 97 people on here who argue just for the sake of it... surely no-one will disagree with that...? :cool:

I`ve lost count of the number of times that subjects have been discussed on the SF which virtually every person I`ve ever met are in complete agreement on and yet there are still people who will disagree with the position.

Is it that they`re just arguing for the sake of it, playing Devils advocate ?

Do the really believe what they say (or should that be write) ?

Is it just that people are prepared to be honest about how anti social they really are when they`re speaking anonymously ?

I think people are more likely to say what they really think on a Forum, rather than face to face. I think a lot of social interaction face-to-face concentrates on maintaining a 'nice' status quo, and most people won't rock the social boat, whatever they really think. They're more likely to say what they think is expected of them.

Then again, you will always get those who will say the opposite to everyone else, just for the hell of it. Some people just enjoy playing Devil's advocate.

StarSparkle

Then again, you will always get those who will say the opposite to everyone else, just for the hell of it. Some people just enjoy playing Devil's advocate.

StarSparkle

Oh no they don't:hihi:

Oh no they don't:hihi:

Oh yes they do! :hihi:

There are 97 people on here who argue just for the sake of it... surely no-one will disagree with that...? :cool:

No there isn't

Is it just that people are prepared to be honest about how anti social they really are when they`re speaking anonymously ?

I know what you mean but I'm pretty much the same in real life, slightly more reserved but in essence argumentative if I believe in my point strongly enough.

Strangely I'm also prone to disagree just for the hell of it (especially if I have no real opinion on a subject but can see that someone I dislike has some strongly held views).

Irritable, argumentative troll :D

Why is it that on a nice day like today you're all argumentative & you've all got face on?

I must admit, I do enjoy a decent discussion and once I've established my position, I am keen to attempt to open the eyes of others by helping them understand the contrary to their viewpoint, whether I agree with it or not.

For this reason, I am often accused of trolling.

Hey ho, that's the way I am, so fingers up to everyone who doesnt like it.

:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

As long as all people are using facts and just presenting their opinion on them, and also making a diferentiation on what is fact and what is opinion then there's nothing wrong with arguing. However, something like that is considered a debate. Arguing without fact is annoying :P

I`ve lost count of the number of times that subjects have been discussed on the SF which virtually every person I`ve ever met are in complete agreement on and yet there are still people who will disagree with the position.

Is it that they`re just arguing for the sake of it, playing Devils advocate ?

Do the really believe what they say (or should that be write) ?

Is it just that people are prepared to be honest about how anti social they really are when they`re speaking anonymously ?

just be glad you don't live with them

It would be a very boring forum if you posted "I dislike people who recline seats on aircraft" and all you got in response was a long list "me too".
It would also be unlikely as if everyone agreed on this point, no one would ever recline their seat.

I'm more likely to argue with strangers on the forum, simply for the fact that I don't get into many discussions with strangers anywhere else.
If I go to the pub with my mate then we spend most of the evening arguing (in friendly fashion) about a variety of topics spanning politics, religion and current affairs.

It would be a very boring forum if you posted "I dislike people who recline seats on aircraft" and all you got in response was a long list "me too".



I agree. :hihi:

No there isn't

lol......:P

I agree. :hihi:

Me too...............

As long as all people are using facts and just presenting their opinion on them, and also making a diferentiation on what is fact and what is opinion then there's nothing wrong with arguing. However, something like that is considered a debate. Arguing without fact is annoying :P

Your post is nothing but your personal opinion, which I will respect for arguments sake, but I for one openly disagree with your statement as you've offered no facts or evidence whatoever to back it up with.

I always reckon one should never let the facts get in the way of a good story!

Signed: An Ex-Daily Mail Reader. :hihi:

Your post is nothing but your personal opinion, which I will respect for arguments sake, but I for one openly disagree with your statement as you've offered no facts or evidence whatoever to back it up with.

This is your assertion, therefore it's your job to support it with evidence :D

I rarely believe many of the things I argue about on here. I like to play devils advocate mainly because I enjoy reading peoples opinions.
If you see me say "String em up" or "Nuke the buggers", Im saying it mainly to see the reaction and the opposing views.


Plus, Im a bit of a troll.

heh

I rarely believe many of the things I argue about on here. I like to play devils advocate mainly because I enjoy reading peoples opinions.
If you see me say "String em up" or "Nuke the buggers", Im saying it mainly to see the reaction and the opposing views.


Plus, Im a bit of a troll.

heh


I know you don't really mean that. ;)

Youre right, I didnt mean it.
I didnt mean that.

This is your assertion, therefore it's your job to support it with evidence :D


No i dont, it's a declaration so therfore it's not necessary to support it with evidence.

You're just trying to be argumentative for the sake of it, stop trolling
:thumbsup: :hihi:

Youre right, I didnt mean it.
I didnt mean that.

Yes you did stop been facetious

Yes you did stop been facetious

I agree. Again.

None of you know what you're talking about. The correct answer is 'he was thrown out of a moving ambulance and landed face-first in the middle of a gay pride parade'.

I agree. Again.

Me too..............

None of you know what you're talking about.

Yes we do.

I agree. :hihi:

You never agree. :hihi:

I agree. Again.

Sorry, you just did. :D

I do all the time, on here and in "real" life.

I do all the time, on here and in "real" life.I don't believe you.

What was the question again...?

What kind of person answers questions with a question? is it just for arguments sake?

What kind of person answers questions with a question? is it just for arguments sake?Why do you ask?

Why do you ask?

You mean you don't know?

I like it when I've not been on for a couple of days and I see a thread with loads of pages. I read the first post and then jump straight to the last one to see how far off topic and abusive it's become!

I like it when I've not been on for a couple of days and I see a thread with loads of pages. I read the first post and then jump straight to the last one to see how far off topic and abusive it's become!

No it hasn't.

Your post is nothing but your personal opinion, which I will respect for arguments sake, but I for one openly disagree with your statement as you've offered no facts or evidence whatoever to back it up with.

Sometimes you can only offer the initial post as evidence for any opinions you declare in a statement. To me, there is a significant difference between an argument and a debate; normally a debate is viewed as civilized and orderly, offering evidence to back up claims made, and an argument is irrational and normally brought up for other reasons other than the topic in hand.

Sometimes you can only offer the initial post as evidence for any opinions you declare in a statement. To me, there is a significant difference between an argument and a debate; normally a debate is viewed as civilized and orderly, offering evidence to back up claims made, and an argument is irrational and normally brought up for other reasons other than the topic in hand.

I think you've taken my post a tad too seriously.

You mean you don't know?You mean you have to ask?

It means you're too thick, AND if you have not had any written scientific papers published to back yourself up, don't even bother to write this on the SF !! Now that IS an accepted "fact". :hihi:

I like it when I've not been on for a couple of days and I see a thread with loads of pages. I read the first post and then jump straight to the last one to see how far off topic and abusive it's become!

You're an idiot, but we're the same kind of idiot because I do that. Although sometime i post first, and read later.

I don't post though, just laugh at how it degenerates into mayhem!

I only post if I've got time to read all the posts, becuase you just know that if it's already been mentioned, or your facts aren't 100% accurate, someone is going to have a go at you!

I don't post though, just laugh at how it degenerates into mayhem!

I only post if I've got time to read all the posts, becuase you just know that if it's already been mentioned, or your facts aren't 100% accurate, someone is going to have a go at you!
no theyre not


















:P

i like to argue with certain people, because you usually get a fairly entertaining discussion out of it.

i actively avoid a couple of people because they do exactly the same needling-to-extreme-irritation that i do to other people.

i have to admit to deliberately arguing with certain other people simply because they're too dumb to ever win; it's amusing to see where their logic leads them. i was having a great time on a couple of threads the other day, but they got deleted.:( .

i don't think i often argue just for the sake of it, though - i often join in with something when somebody says something particularly far fetched and unsubstantiated, and i frequently contribute to threads i feel strongly about, but i rarely do teh devil's advocate thing. well, sometimes i do. ok, i guess i do argue for the sake of it sometimes. sorry.

actually, take that back, i'm not sorry at all.

actually, take that back, i'm not sorry at all.
yes you are

yes you are

do you really want to mess with me? after i've carefully dissected your argument and presented a good case for the contrary, i shall peck your eyes out with my very sharp beak. and i shall be laughing, nay, CACKLING whilst i do it!

You mean you have to ask?

Why can't you answer?

You mean you have to ask?

or you mean you can't answer?

Although sometime i post first, and read later.

No you don't, you always read first & post later.

It really is a fact that many of the contributions to SF do not reflect the views of the vast majority of people one meets on a day to day basis.
The Airplane Reclining Seat thread is possibly the most obvious example of this. If a Martian came down to Sheffield tomorrow and read that thread they would think that most airline travellers have no objection to the person in front reclining their seats back as far as they want, yet we all know this is far from the case.
Why is SF sometimes so divorced from the real world ?

I do not want to start any off topic discussion here I am simply using this as an example to illustrate the contention of this thread.

I really must take issue with that. Down my street reclining airline seats is the hot topic of the day.

A: Are you being sarky? :rant:
B: No, I was only joking.
A: That's okay then. :)

How easy is it to understand the world ? It's not! :hihi:

There's arguing for the sake of it, there's hectoring - which is a bit naughty, then there's THIS (http://www.keywestfishtales.com/images/deep-drop-fishing-2lg.jpg) :D

There's arguing for the sake of it, there's hectoring - which is a bit naughty, then there's THIS (http://www.keywestfishtales.com/images/deep-drop-fishing-2lg.jpg) :D


Or this (http://www.kangtrack.org/images/halibut1.jpg) :) :) :) :)

It really is a fact that many of the contributions to SF do not reflect the views of the vast majority of people one meets on a day to day basis.
The Airplane Reclining Seat thread is possibly the most obvious example of this. If a Martian came down to Sheffield tomorrow and read that thread they would think that most airline travellers have no objection to the person in front reclining their seats back as far as they want, yet we all know this is far from the case.
Why is SF sometimes so divorced from the real world ?

I do not want to start any off topic discussion here I am simply using this as an example to illustrate the contention of this thread.
It makes you think how honest people are in real life who just are too polite! ;)

It makes you think how honest people are in real life who just are too polite! ;)

As Bago points out, I think in person, partly out of politeness, people will not always tell you what they really think, especially if they don't have strong feelings on the matter. In public, most people would rather maintain the peace than overtly disagree with what someone has said, certainly if it is regarding something pretty trivial. It just smooths the wheels of social interaction. I don't particularly think that way myself, but then I'm not averse to a good argument! :P

StarSparkle

As Bago points out, I think in person, partly out of politeness, people will not always tell you what they really think, especially if they don't have strong feelings on the matter. In public, most people would rather maintain the peace than overtly disagree with what someone has said, certainly if it is regarding something pretty trivial. It just smooths the wheels of social interaction. I don't particularly think that way myself, but then I'm not averse to a good argument! :P

StarSparkle

It is known in Sheffield as 'keeping the cart on the wheels', or in this area, where I now live, as 'keepin' band int nick' :)

Diplomacy is always a good idea.

But the forum is for discussion, so discuss we will.
If that mean ruffling a few feathers, then that can only be for the good of the discussion, surely. :thumbsup:

I think for me, I've left behind that bit of diplomacy. I'm sure that I used to be more diplomatic too.

It always used to be a simple case of:
- personal issues, be diplomatic
- non-people issues (like politics), be vocal

Though, I'm finding the lines are being blurred, especially on a couple of threads which bordered on moral issues.

i always try my best not to sound arguementative and arrogent as sometimes i feel we read things what others have wrote the wrong way and can take offence by it.

It really is a fact that many of the contributions to SF do not reflect the views of the vast majority of people one meets on a day to day basis.
The Airplane Reclining Seat thread is possibly the most obvious example of this. If a Martian came down to Sheffield tomorrow and read that thread they would think that most airline travellers have no objection to the person in front reclining their seats back as far as they want, yet we all know this is far from the case.
Why is SF sometimes so divorced from the real world ?

I do not want to start any off topic discussion here I am simply using this as an example to illustrate the contention of this thread.

Nah, it's a fact that people who get disagreed with then declare that we aren't representative and that all their friends agree with them (surprise surprise).

Nah, it's a fact that people who get disagreed with then declare that we aren't representative and that all their friends agree with them (surprise surprise).

Yeah but with all due respect ;) ...

...most if not all (with the exception of me, obviously) people on here, and you specifically...

...are always wrong.

8)

I believe that with the exception of when you agree with me, it is actually you who is wrong all the time. And I have the statistics to prove it!

Yeah but with all due respect ;) ...
...most if not all (with the exception of me, obviously) people on here, and you specifically...
...are always wrong. 8)

Stands back in awe of the foo fighter ...

Nah, it's a fact that people who get disagreed with then declare that we aren't representative and that all their friends agree with them (surprise surprise).

People may argue as to the relative "rights" of those sat on airliners (it`s all about peoples "rights" these days and rarely about their responsibilities.....) but not even the most ardent apologist for "seat recliners" could argue that those behind don`t mind.
Since coming back from SA I`ve asked a good few people (more than 50% were not my "friends") the following question - which is as unbiased as I could make it - "When the person in front reclines their seat what do you think ? "
The responses ranged from "It`s annoying" right up to "B******s". The latter was from a female friend of mine who has to fly a lot for her job. Significantly, I`d never heard her swear before......

Most people don`t mind having a seat reclined in their face ?

Welcome to a world where reality fears to tread.
Welcome, to Sheffield Forum !

At least it proves my point......

i always try my best not to sound arguementative and arrogent as sometimes i feel we read things what others have wrote the wrong way and can take offence by it.

To true i have felt very offended by a couple of people on the forum (not you :hihi: ) some people can become rather "hostile" in putting their point accross, the human element is totaly lost on them!

To true i have felt very offended by a couple of people on the forum (not you :hihi: ) some people can become rather "hostile" in putting their point accross, the human element is totaly lost on them!

no you havent, your just after sympathy now arent you?

To true i have felt very offended by a couple of people on the forum (not you :hihi: ) some people can become rather "hostile" in putting their point accross, the human element is totaly lost on them!

Can you prove it? I want to see references from at least two widely acknowledged journals and a good mathematical backing for your point.

Can you prove it? I want to see references from at least two widely acknowledged journals and a good mathematical backing for your point.

But you always do, don't you? Nothing new there :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone
Can you prove it? I want to see references from at least two widely acknowledged journals and a good mathematical backing for your point.[/QUOTE]

But you always do, don't you? Nothing new there :)
Hehehehe ;) :hihi:

no you havent, your just after sympathy now arent you?

Yes please :sad:

But you always do, don't you? Nothing new there :)

I can quote several posts where I don't, I think you're assertion is plainly a dissimilitude.

I can quote several posts where I don't, I think you're assertion is plainly a dissimilitude.

Well, you would say that wouldn't you? You always do :hihi: Show me the posts you claim to have made, or not made, as the case may be :rolleyes:. You're such an anal retentive personality, you can't truthfully deny it, can you?

I can and I do, and here is a post where I don't want references from you. Thus I win, as always, thank you and goodnight.

I can and I do, and here is a post where I don't want references from you. Thus I win, as always, thank you and goodnight.


Taxi for Cyclone.

Taxi for Cyclone.

Has he actually left the building though ... ?? Unlikely. He'll just have moved to another thread:P

pass the Rennies, please! ;)

Has he actually left the building though ... ?? Unlikely. He'll just have moved to another thread:P

We can live in hope :thumbsup:

Sorry, an elvis moment, I've not called it a night yet.
Can't be too much longer though.

Arguing for the sake if it can be good! Im having a ball on another thread and Im sure that the other contributors are too.

Its another thing I love about the forum.

Indeed, most of us wouldn't be here otherwise.

Oh, and you need to provide proof of enjoyment that would stand up in court, otherwise I don't accept your argument.

Ill start up the orgasmometer and paste and copy the results here!

People may argue as to the relative "rights" of those sat on airliners (it`s all about peoples "rights" these days and rarely about their responsibilities.....) but not even the most ardent apologist for "seat recliners" could argue that those behind don`t mind.
Since coming back from SA I`ve asked a good few people (more than 50% were not my "friends") the following question - which is as unbiased as I could make it - "When the person in front reclines their seat what do you think ? "
The responses ranged from "It`s annoying" right up to "B******s". The latter was from a female friend of mine who has to fly a lot for her job. Significantly, I`d never heard her swear before......

Most people don`t mind having a seat reclined in their face ?

Welcome to a world where reality fears to tread.
Welcome, to Sheffield Forum !

At least it proves my point......
:hihi:

You just wanna believe what you wanna believe and not how others see the situation who are not your friends, but then again, they say such harsh words IS because they are NOT your friends. So we have friends who supports and believe in us and is careful of what they say, insteading of abusing you and demoralising you instead. So why are you posting online to strangers who won't be friendship materials?

I suppose it's called a reality check. :hihi:

Then again, who moan and complain and think we're right since there's always someone to apologise for your disappointment, even though they don't work for the customer services department of the company which you are so agitated about.

Hehehe....

Indeed, most of us wouldn't be here otherwise.

Oh, and you need to provide proof of enjoyment that would stand up in court, otherwise I don't accept your argument.

Just because we're online do not mean we enjoy every single bit of it.

:hihi: or :mad:
Can you tell ?

Course not, cos someone said on the SF before that it's only an online forum, and nothing is real!

:hihi:

The thing I hate most is when you post a thread asking for help and some people just see that as a chance to judge you.

The thing I hate most is when you post a thread asking for help and some people just see that as a chance to judge you.

This is the thread about arguing the toss for the sake of it though, the judgmental threads are over there >>>>>>>>>>>

but if you think I was judging you without cause, that's unfortunate and I apologise

:hihi:

You just wanna believe what you wanna believe and not how others see the situation who are not your friends, but then again, they say such harsh words IS because they are NOT your friends. So we have friends who supports and believe in us and is careful of what they say, insteading of abusing you and demoralising you instead. So why are you posting online to strangers who won't be friendship materials?

I suppose it's called a reality check. :hihi:

Then again, who moan and complain and think we're right since there's always someone to apologise for your disappointment, even though they don't work for the customer services department of the company which you are so agitated about.

Hehehe....

I don`t understand the point you`re trying to make. I only mentioned that not all of those I asked were "friends" because Cyclone implied that "friends" just tell you what you want to hear. The latter is not something I agree with anyway but there we go.
We still haven`t explained the fact that an almost universally accepted opinion (people don`t like a seat reclined into their face) is not reflected by a great many respondents on this - and probably many other - Forums.
Thus Forums frequently don`t reflect reality, that is my point on this thread.

This is the thread about arguing the toss for the sake of it though, the judgmental threads are over there >>>>>>>>>>>

but if you think I was judging you without cause, that's unfortunate and I apologise

The thing is about these forum's is that you can't get the full story to base you're opinions on.

The thing is about these forum's is that you can't get the full story to base you're opinions on.

This is very true.
One thing I`ve learnt from my 43 years is that there are always two sides to any argument, athough one may be rather weaker than the other....
This obviously excludes objectively provable facts !
In any disagreement it`s incredible how different things look like when you`re on the other side of the argument. It`s easier said than done (particularly in the heat of the moment) but try asking yourself "if I were in his shoes what would I think.........."

We still haven`t explained the fact that an almost universally accepted opinion (people don`t like a seat reclined into their face) is not reflected by a great many respondents on this - and probably many other - Forums.
Thus Forums frequently don`t reflect reality, that is my point on this thread.


as with this quote the statement is incorrect and untrue.
no one said as in your quote they like to have a chair seat in their face.

what they all agreed was - they have a choice to recline if they wish and preventing people using their own choice to implement your own is selfish.
which is what you were advocating. so basically you've manipulated the truth to suit your argument which in turns encourages furthere dispute.
'cos we assume you either a)like to argue
b)are selfish c) are insensitive d) trolling oh i forget e) thick

then you wonder why people appear to continue with debates.

........
We still haven`t explained the fact that an almost universally accepted opinion (people don`t like a seat reclined into their face) is not reflected by a great many respondents on this - and probably many other - Forums.

This is an example of where impressions become misunderstandings become wrong.

If you ask the question as simply as you put it here, you will find that nearly everyone will agree with you .... we don't like seats reclined into our faces!

Where people may disagree on this one, is the extent to which it can be tolerated and the extent to which 'selfish' can be used to describe it.

As Bago points out, I think in person, partly out of politeness, people will not always tell you what they really think, especially if they don't have strong feelings on the matter. In public, most people would rather maintain the peace than overtly disagree with what someone has said, certainly if it is regarding something pretty trivial. It just smooths the wheels of social interaction. I don't particularly think that way myself, but then I'm not averse to a good argument! :P

StarSparkle

well pointed out.
its easy to be honest when you have no repurcussions.

Could THis Be The Reason Why Seats Are Reclined Into Your Face ?

Last month BA apologised to passengers flying from Delhi to London after an elderly woman died three hours into the journey. The crew carried the body from economy class, which was full, to first class and strapped it into a seat for the remaining six hours of the flight

In November an American traveller died halfway through a six-hour BA flight to Boston. His body was covered with a blanket and remained in a seat in first class

This is an example of where impressions become misunderstandings become wrong.

If you ask the question as simply as you put it here, you will find that nearly everyone will agree with you .... we don't like seats reclined into our faces!

Where people may disagree on this one, is the extent to which it can be tolerated and the extent to which 'selfish' can be used to describe it.

Good point but the question put was " If someone in front of you reclines their seat, what do you think ? "
Can you think of a more unbiased way of asking the question ?

Could THis Be The Reason Why Seats Are Reclined Into Your Face ?

Last month BA apologised to passengers flying from Delhi to London after an elderly woman died three hours into the journey. The crew carried the body from economy class, which was full, to first class and strapped it into a seat for the remaining six hours of the flight

In November an American traveller died halfway through a six-hour BA flight to Boston. His body was covered with a blanket and remained in a seat in first class

I`ve heard of people dying to get into first class but that`s surely taking it a bit far.....

I`ve heard of people dying to get into first class but that`s surely taking it a bit far.....

And some people will do anything to get their name in the papers :hihi:

I don`t understand the point you`re trying to make. I only mentioned that not all of those I asked were "friends" because Cyclone implied that "friends" just tell you what you want to hear. The latter is not something I agree with anyway but there we go.
We still haven`t explained the fact that an almost universally accepted opinion (people don`t like a seat reclined into their face) is not reflected by a great many respondents on this - and probably many other - Forums.
Thus Forums frequently don`t reflect reality, that is my point on this thread.
I was having a little bit of fun too, that's all. :hihi:
Kind of parodying others. Since they understand this method more than where I am coming from! Despite the recent argument with me on rape threads, and various other ridiculous arguments also, which I don't think the person replying thought about how they are coming across. It's something you will get used to on the SF. Frustratingly so, but you will. You have to mentally detach yourself from the argument getting too personal.

Well, if its female friends, then they may cushion what they say and don't want to hurt your feelings. Some male friends also do this, but that's only because they learned to be this way, after getting to know their friends. That's how I see it.

The forum kind of reflects real life, cos misunderstandings, and the lack of time to read what is written or consider the points stated happens ALL the time. I just personally found your seat reclining thread funny, cos... these thoughts came to mind:
- you can afford to fly, don't moan otherwise you will be seen as an ungrateful snob
- don't moan about the standard of service that you get, even though there are threads moaning about customer services in general anyway. :hihi:
- You're just unlucky your thread went onto pages and pages... whereas other customer services thread don't. It's a compliment, I'm sure! :hihi:

I don`t understand the point you`re trying to make. I only mentioned that not all of those I asked were "friends" because Cyclone implied that "friends" just tell you what you want to hear. The latter is not something I agree with anyway but there we go.
We still haven`t explained the fact that an almost universally accepted opinion (people don`t like a seat reclined into their face) is not reflected by a great many respondents on this - and probably many other - Forums.
Thus Forums frequently don`t reflect reality, that is my point on this thread.

This is something called straw manning. You make a claim about what was said that isn't true, then demonstrate how it's wrong.
No one claimed they liked having a seat reclined in their face, people simply argued with you that it wasn't selfish and said that they didn't hate it.