I have for a long time dreamed of a life that is equal to my aspirations.
So far....I have a few bob...I work for a good company and I pay my taxes...not that I like to....But because I have to!

There are many people out there that work long hours to be able to get a living wage and to have some sort of dignity and pleasure, However! on the other side of the coin there are people that do nothing but rape the benefits system nd take the money from the very people that are struggling to make ends meet.

I for one would like to see that the people that work long hours for a wage that cannot sustain a family get something in return for their efforts.
On the other hand.....Those that screw the benefits system for what they can get...I would like to see made to go to work and earn a living.....and try to live as the working population does.

There have been many stories published in the different newspapers relating to the benefits that some families are on with regards to the wages that the people working are earning.

Shouldnt the welfare be lower than what another person that is working 40 hours a week for?

Where are the values...and where is the commonsence!
When a family of 4 gets more free cash to spend with the benefits than if they are working?

The logic escapes me somewhat!

Derek

You make some interesting points. I am reminded of Blair's mantra a few years ago:

"Work for those who can, security for those who can't" (or similar) but that's not what I'm seeing.

Where you and I differ are the methods. I don't think the problem is that benefits are too high. I do, however, think the problem may be that wages are too low.

I agree with some financial 'experts' (ho ho) who argue that taxes are set at too low an amount in this country. As soon as you earn enough to start paying tax (which, I think, is around just £5,000 per year) then you're stung for what is a proportionately large amount of tax.

We agree that you can probably earn more than that by not working and breeding indiscriminately. On top of that, you'll get free rent, council tax, child benefits etc...

Perhaps child benefits should be set so that people aren't 'rewarded' for breeding a more than a few children. I know this sort of happens in China, where you get punished for having more than one child. Maybe something a little less extreme is required over here.

Perhaps the amount spent on social welfare for the workshy could be better put towards boosting the wages of low earners.

Originally posted by Abdul
Derek

You make some interesting points. I am reminded of Blair's mantra a few years ago:

"Work for those who can, security for those who can't" (or similar) but that's not what I'm seeing.

Where you and I differ are the methods. I don't think the problem is that benefits are too high. I do, however, think the problem may be that wages are too low.

I agree with some financial 'experts' (ho ho) who argue that taxes are set at too low an amount in this country. As soon as you earn enough to start paying tax (which, I think, is around just £5,000 per year) then you're stung for what is a proportionately large amount of tax.

We agree that you can probably earn more than that by not working and breeding indiscriminately. On top of that, you'll get free rent, council tax, child benefits etc...

Perhaps child benefits should be set so that people aren't 'rewarded' for breeding a more than a few children. I know this sort of happens in China, where you get punished for having more than one child. Maybe something a little less extreme is required over here.

Perhaps the amount spent on social welfare for the workshy could be better put towards boosting the wages of low earners.

I see your points Abdul, The problem with the wage structure is that to increase wages it would also increase the cost of production of goods which would lead to higher prices.
This would then wipe out any of the increaces in wages leaving everyone in the same boat as before.

In a market where everyone is competing for a slice of the cake, the smaller companies would be forced to close and corporations would rule.

At present we are importing labour to do jobs that could be allocated to the people that don't want to work.
I agree that the wages are not that good but if there were less people on benefits, We wouldn't be having the taxation that we have now.
Putting this into perspective! Taking the average wage in the north of..(being realistic) 12000.00PA and remove the following taxes.
Average PAYE is 22%, 11% NIC , 10% Council Tax

Allowance of lets say 4650.00

Take home pay is around 9000.00 PA.
Then there is rent or mortgage to pay of lets say 60 a week..3120.00pa
Total to live on: £5880.00pa


Benefits: lets just work this on a single person living alone.

JSA. around 2700 PA, Rent: 3000.00 pa, Council Tax: 1000.00 pa,
So far, 6700.00pa paid out to someone that doesn't do anything.

Add child benefits, Prescription charges, Dentist bills, etc,

Bearing in mind that a lot of young single people are on min wage at around 10000 pa I think that the benefit system is unfair and should be more active in getting people to work....those that don't want to work should have their benefits suspended.

I read in the papers about families that are claiming around 35000.00 pa in benefits.....My point is...When the benefits are more than if you work....there is something radically wrong!







Before a person gets to buy anything or pay for rent, 40% of the 12000.00 has been taken leaving

Originally posted by DerekH
The problem with the wage structure is that to increase wages it would also increase the cost of production of goods which would lead to higher prices.
This would then wipe out any of the increaces in wages leaving everyone in the same boat as before.

True, but I did mention that the money (ie taxes) used to support the workshy should be instead used to boost the wages of low earners, so no tax rise should be required, nor should there be any increase in production cost.

Once the workshy see there's no longer any financial benefit to staying off work, they may be more enthusiastic about finding work.

So you take out mortgage and council tax from the average person's pay but include it in the amount of benefits paid to claimants Derek. That's a bit unfair isn't it?

Don't forget that people on low wages are also entitled to benefits which ultimately come out of general taxation. So, in effect, we the taxpayers are paying for multinaltional companies like Asda, BurgerKing, etc., to pay poverty wages. Plus, the mulitnationals themselves, as they are mostly based offshore, are paying less and less into the general tax pot.

I fond it odd that the government on the one hand says that you need x amount of money to live on but condones compaies paying people far less than that.

Originally posted by max
So you take out mortgage and council tax from the average person's pay but include it in the amount of benefits paid to claimants Derek. That's a bit unfair isn't it?

Don't forget that people on low wages are also entitled to benefits which ultimately come out of general taxation. So, in effect, we the taxpayers are paying for multinaltional companies like Asda, BurgerKing, etc., to pay poverty wages. Plus, the mulitnationals themselves, as they are mostly based offshore, are paying less and less into the general tax pot.

I fond it odd that the government on the one hand says that you need x amount of money to live on but condones compaies paying people far less than that.
Sorry Max but these payments are made to cover the cost of rents...and council tax....is it me or do you not agree that these payments are made by the tax payer.
If you are saying that I am being unfair taking these costs into consideration.......Why am I and another 22 million paying the tax?

Your statement holds no water ....the person who gets benefits still has to pay this amount....or should I say the tax payer does on their behalf!

If we are paying out poverty wages.....why is it that you as a labour candidate are not fighting for the increase of the minimum wage?

As stated in my other post! higher wages have a detrimental effect on the economy to such a degree that increases are relative to the cost of the products manufactured.

My point in here is that people are getting vast amounts of money from benefits.. that are way over what a person can earn as in take home pay and spare cash in the pocket!