Who stays, who goes?

I think Lampard is good but i prefer Gerrard.

Maybe Steve Mclaren should be on poll..

I think Lampard is good but i prefer Gerrard.

Maybe Steve Mclaren should be on poll..

He already is here (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=199399)

How many managers will it take to get "2" players to play together,
were in the crap.

I say bench them both for a few games and fetch in Scholes and Barry. Scholes will link up well with Rooney and would make a good partner to Barry. In the meantime Frank and Steven can reflect on how to get back in the 1st 11.

Good point although i doubt scholes will come out of international retirement m8.

If he knows he can make a difference,(which I'm sure he can) and he cares about his country, ( which I'm sure he does ) then he only needs to be asked by the right person( which I'm sure he hasn't been recently ). :thumbsup:

Yes he has quite recently, i saw an interview with him the other week, and he said that he would definately not go back into international football due to family reasons.

i,ll never forget the hat trick he scored against poland in 99 what a player he is.

Who stays, who goes?

Who cares:D?

Who cares:D?

Then why are you posting for u mug!

On current form I'd rather see Lampard on the bench.

It's becoming an obsession for England managers to accomodate Gerrard and Lampard when it's blindingly obvious the team needs balance.

On current form I'd rather see Lampard on the bench.

It's becoming an obsession for England managers to accomodate Gerrard and Lampard when it's blindingly obvious the team needs balance.

I agree. Whilst Lamps is brilliantly consistant for us, he is a pale shadow for England. The team must come first, and the balance is not right when they are both in the team. I have come around to the conclusion that one of them needs to be dropped, on current England form it's Lampard who should be dropped.

I think the midfield should be-
AgainstAndorra

Lennon Gerrard Hargreaves Downing (good crosser)

The plain fact is that given their ability, NEITHER Lampard OR Gerrard have ever really done it for England.

Stevie G in particular baffles me. For Pool he sometimes grabs games by the scruff of the neck, but i have never seen him do that for England.

Rooney is even worse for England than he often is for United, regardless of what the press would have you believe about him.
He scores great goals. That doesnt make him a great player.

Then why are you posting for u mug!

'Cause I've got a sense of humour?


Also, I am not a mug...

I am, in fact, a teacup:thumbsup:

I'd drop Lampard, keep Gerrard and make him captain. He performs best under pressure.

Lampard is past it.
Rooney can only play with brillant players like Ronaldo and Giggs. He can't do it with learners like Johnson. No one is sharp enough to use Rooney properly and he has to go ball hunting - gets frustrated and gets carded - pillock.
Too many players out of position (Lennon e.g.) - surely its more down to the manager than the individual players????

'Cause I've got a sense of humour?


Also, I am not a mug...

I am, in fact, a teacup:thumbsup:

GET OVER IT!

GET OVER IT!

Get a sense of humour:rolleyes:

Barry (until Cole comes back) Gerrard, Hargreaves and Lennon. Andy Johnson should be stuck with until Owen is ready to come back, he just needs a goal. Rooney should be taken out for a game in the very near future so he knows if he isn't producing he doesn't play.

O and Mr Beckham should be in the squad, Lennon should be on the left but Becks should be in the squad as he can provided cover for righ mid and centre. Before anyone says anything I know he's injured and couldn't hav ebeen in this squad, but he should be in the next one.

Lampard bags the goals for the blues but at International level i think evryoner has to bring a bit more to the table than just being good at getting into the box late.

Mind you i said the same of David Platt who i felt lived off that goal against Belgium for 40 more caps too many.......

I would select Gerrard and drop Lampard to bench, the chuckle brothers could form a better midfield partnership.

it is not Lampard Or Gerrard who should go do you really think that if Chelsea had bought Gerrard last season Jose would not have got them playing together i dont think so.

It is the manager who has to go just look at him he does not fill me with confidence so what chance have the players got.

Lets look at the team the back 4 are good the keeper is crap the midfield is there but without Joe Cole we look ordinary then here we go.

The front line we have 1 hugely overated player in Wayne i have no respect for referees Rooney he has not scored for England Or Man Utd in the Champions League since 2004 yes 2004. And then you have who Crouch no Johnson no Defoe no.

So that is where the problem is we are an ordinary team and hugely overated we will never win anything untill there is a massive shake up which we all know will not happen.

So there we are what do you think just my view

Mind you, Hargreaves (the holding player) must surely sit this one out tonight.
Not needed.

lampard is out of tonights match

Well the gods of fate have made the desision he didnt want to.
No doubt its a blessing in disguise for him.

Not saying the they'll do owt and dont particlary think Downings our best left footer but this likey team I've been sent at least looks like it has some balance.

1.Robinson
2.Richards
3.cole
4.Hargreaves
5.Terry
6.Ferdinand
7.Lennon
8.Gerrard
9.Rooney
10.Johnson
11.Downing

Anyone ?

Well the gods of fate have made the desision he didnt want to.
No doubt its a blessing in disguise for him.

Not saying the they'll do owt and dont particlary think Downings our best left footer but this likey team I've been sent at least looks like it has some balance.

1.Robinson
2.Richards
3.cole
4.Hargreaves
5.Terry
6.Ferdinand
7.Lennon
8.Gerrard
9.Rooney
10.Johnson
11.Downing

Anyone ?


Hargreaves is simply not required tonight. We need goals.

He'll probably score the first un now !!

both of em to go.
bring back scholes and beckham

Hargreaves can take penalties!

Bring back Bobby Charlton !!

both of em to go.
bring back scholes and beckham

It is no coincidence that, tonight the ball and chain (Lampard) has been removed from Gerrard, hence the reason he ran the show.
Dont get me wrong, tonight was another poor showing by a group of very talented footballers as individuals, but with reference to the original thread, Gerrard is so much better for England when he doesn't have to carry the work of two players, as he does when Lampard is included in the team.
Steven Gerrard is worth 10 of Frank and tonight goes some way to proving that. He has shown that, apart from being the best all round footballer England possess, he is without doubt, head and shoulders above any other England player at this moment in time.
Lampard should now at best, hope for a place on the bench to let Gerrard do what he does best and dominate teams the way he does. Another player that needs to be looked at is Mr Wayne Rooney. Although a very strong and talented young footballer, he has been found out IMHO. He doesn't score alot of goals, he doesn't create many goals, infact all i can really say about the boy is that more and more regulary, he runs around in a stropp, feeling sorry for himself because players now know they can man mark him which leaves him totally and utterly, out of the game. Manchester UTD staff and supporters are also beggining to realise this, which is sad to say the least considering the talent the boy showed previously and the money that was shelled out for him.
Back on topic though........ Gerrard has proven the answer to this thread. Lampard's days as the carried, lazy England midfield player are now surely, well and truelly over.

It is no coincidence that, tonight the ball and chain (Lampard) has been removed from Gerrard, hence the reason he ran the show.
Dont get me wrong, tonight was another poor showing by a group of very talented footballers as individuals, but with reference to the original thread, Gerrard is so much better for England when he doesn't have to carry the work of two players, as he does when Lampard is included in the team.
Steven Gerrard is worth 10 of Frank and tonight goes some way to proving that. He has shown that, apart from being the best all round footballer England possess, he is without doubt, head and shoulders above any other England player at this moment in time.
Lampard should now at best, hope for a place on the bench to let Gerrard do what he does best and dominate teams the way he does. Another player that needs to be looked at is Mr Wayne Rooney. Although a very strong and talented young footballer, he has been found out IMHO. He doesn't score alot of goals, he doesn't create many goals, infact all i can really say about the boy is that more and more regulary, he runs around in a stropp, feeling sorry for himself because players now know they can man mark him which leaves him totally and utterly, out of the game. Manchester UTD staff and supporters are also beggining to realise this, which is sad to say the least considering the talent the boy showed previously and the money that was shelled out for him.
Back on topic though........ Gerrard has proven the answer to this thread. Lampard's days as the carried, lazy England midfield player are now surely, well and truelly over.

Gerrard saved McClowns job.
Fool!!

It is no coincidence that, tonight the ball and chain (Lampard) has been removed from Gerrard, hence the reason he ran the show.
Dont get me wrong, tonight was another poor showing by a group of very talented footballers as individuals, but with reference to the original thread, Gerrard is so much better for England when he doesn't have to carry the work of two players, as he does when Lampard is included in the team.
Steven Gerrard is worth 10 of Frank and tonight goes some way to proving that. He has shown that, apart from being the best all round footballer England possess, he is without doubt, head and shoulders above any other England player at this moment in time.
Lampard should now at best, hope for a place on the bench to let Gerrard do what he does best and dominate teams the way he does. Another player that needs to be looked at is Mr Wayne Rooney. Although a very strong and talented young footballer, he has been found out IMHO. He doesn't score alot of goals, he doesn't create many goals, infact all i can really say about the boy is that more and more regulary, he runs around in a stropp, feeling sorry for himself because players now know they can man mark him which leaves him totally and utterly, out of the game. Manchester UTD staff and supporters are also beggining to realise this, which is sad to say the least considering the talent the boy showed previously and the money that was shelled out for him.
Back on topic though........ Gerrard has proven the answer to this thread. Lampard's days as the carried, lazy England midfield player are now surely, well and truelly over.

Harsh on Rooney.
Ronaldo was utterly wasteful for 2/3 years at United until this season.
Rooney doesnt have that maturity yet - he sulks and simply tries too hard at times.
He needs to relax and play with a smile, which will come with age.
And a few sessions on the shrinks couch....

Now we've got these tough matches against Macedonia, Israel and Andorra out the way, we can go out and show how good we really are. Oh... but we seem to have already done that....

Harsh on Rooney.
Ronaldo was utterly wasteful for 2/3 years at United until this season.
Rooney doesnt have that maturity yet - he sulks and simply tries too hard at times.
He needs to relax and play with a smile, which will come with age.
And a few sessions on the shrinks couch....

Agree. Rooney needs a manager to drill the fact that he has to enjoy the game. He just gets so frustrated. Did you see him ranting after only 5 minutes of the game, against a player who works on a farm midweek.

Harsh on Rooney.
Ronaldo was utterly wasteful for 2/3 years at United until this season.
Rooney doesnt have that maturity yet - he sulks and simply tries too hard at times.
He needs to relax and play with a smile, which will come with age.
And a few sessions on the shrinks couch....

yes, ronaldo was wastefull and rooney will improve. But Ronaldo has a temperament like steel. He takes so much stick, yet smiles and then punishes teams. Rooney is not capable of shrugging off hassle like Ronaldo is.

It is no coincidence that, tonight the ball and chain (Lampard) has been removed from Gerrard, hence the reason he ran the show.
Considering the quality of 'the show' Gerrard 'ran' today that's really not saying much.

Dont get me wrong, tonight was another poor showing by a group of very talented footballers as individuals, but with reference to the original thread, Gerrard is so much better for England when he doesn't have to carry the work of two players, as he does when Lampard is included in the team.
Steven Gerrard is worth 10 of Frank and tonight goes some way to proving that. He has shown that, apart from being the best all round footballer England possess, he is without doubt, head and shoulders above any other England player at this moment in time.
Nonsense, England's defenders particularly Rio & Terry have been turning out solid performances for quite a while, its those in front of them including Gerrard who've been failing to perform.

Your criticism of Lampard is absurdly over the top, he's been far from great for England for quite a while but only a fool would deny that he's an extremely good player if used correctly.

Lampard should now at best, hope for a place on the bench to let Gerrard do what he does best and dominate teams the way he does. Another player that needs to be looked at is Mr Wayne Rooney. Although a very strong and talented young footballer, he has been found out IMHO. He doesn't score alot of goals, he doesn't create many goals, infact all i can really say about the boy is that more and more regulary, he runs around in a stropp, feeling sorry for himself because players now know they can man mark him which leaves him totally and utterly, out of the game. Manchester UTD staff and supporters are also beggining to realise this, which is sad to say the least considering the talent the boy showed previously and the money that was shelled out for him.
And who would you pick in Rooney's place?

Dont you just love Liverpool Fans did you see that so professional superstar Gerrard take a dive what a cheat if that was a foreign player we would be up in arms. It is a sad state when our own players are doing that against such world beaters as Andorra lets see the mighty gerrard when he plays against a decent team without Lampard to hide behind... CHEAT

Dont you just love Liverpool Fans did you see that so professional superstar Gerrard take a dive what a cheat if that was a foreign player we would be up in arms. It is a sad state when our own players are doing that against such world beaters as Andorra lets see the mighty gerrard when he plays against a decent team without Lampard to hide behind... CHEAT

Couldn't agree with you more Valeter.

Why must a hugely talented player like Gerrard have to dive? That incident, which has to be said was when the score was 0-0, was absolutely toe-curling.

Having said that, being a Blade, we have become used to it this season.

Is it just coincidence that he seems to do this against inferior opposition?

Another poor performance.
It does make me wonder....if Mac was at Middlesbrough as long as he was why doesnt he see Downings short comings as an International winger ?
Wouldnt this have been the chnace to look at Baines, Barry, Shorey, Taylor...rthe list is not endless but certainly not the barron position the press would have us believe.

Perhaps the goals of Gerrard and some of his passing showed what he can do for the team when playing 'natural'.

Other than that. I know it's frustrating but it's points in the bag.
:)

Considering the quality of 'the show' Gerrard 'ran' today that's really not saying much

Well its a good job he did or England would now be out of the running for qualification !!!

Nonsense, England's defenders particularly Rio & Terry have been turning out solid performances for quite a while, its those in front of them including Gerrard who've been failing to perform

Considering the quality of opposition, defending hardly has to be world class. Its alot harder for the forward players to have an impact when teams put 9 men behind the ball, although with their quality, this should happen more often.

Your criticism of Lampard is absurdly over the top, he's been far from great for England for quite a while but only a fool would deny that he's an extremely good player if used correctly

If used correctly ? Hasn't he been playing centre mid throughout and it been Gerrard who has had to play in a non-favoured position ? When switched back to centre with a defensive midfielder doing their job, Gerrard has proved that he is much the better player !!


And who would you pick in Rooney's place?

Good question, but the fact is that Rooney is loosing his marbles and will continue to be harrased in future games. We will need a good replacement
for all the games Rooney will miss through suspension!
Nugent maybe ?
Return of Owen, if he can stay fit ?

He wants to avoid the trap of waiting for Owen to bail us out.

I think Erikkson showed the gamble of putting all your eggs in one (broken) basket !!:D

Dont you just love Liverpool Fans did you see that so professional superstar Gerrard take a dive what a cheat if that was a foreign player we would be up in arms. It is a sad state when our own players are doing that against such world beaters as Andorra lets see the mighty gerrard when he plays against a decent team without Lampard to hide behind... CHEAT

No i agree that the Gerrard dive was inexcusable! He didn't need to do it and i begrudgingly have to admit that its something that seems to have crept into his game of late, which is dissapointing but not too late to stop.
Now he hardly hides behind Lampard does he. Gerrard has carried that man for too long and as proved yesterday, once Lamps isn't there restricting him and he can go play his own game, he is by far the superior player.

lets see the mighty gerrard when he plays against a decent team without Lampard to hide behind... CHEAT

I've got to be honest, Gerrards not been performing but i dont think you can realisticaly say he's been hiding behind Frank Lampard.


Unless of course your just saying it to attract more posts and keep this thread going !!

I don't understand why England don't sign some decent foreign players - surely, with all the money in the game these days, they can afford to?

I've got to be honest, Gerrards not been performing but i dont think you can realisticaly say he's been hiding behind Frank Lampard.


Unless of course your just saying it to attract more posts and keep this thread going !!

Or that it appears he is hiding because of the size of Franks waist and stomach :rolleyes: :hihi:

it is not Lampard Or Gerrard who should go do you really think that if Chelsea had bought Gerrard last season Jose would not have got them playing together i dont think so.

Gerrard was Lampards replacement.

just take a look at the stats for the most goals scored from midfield i think by far you will find Lampard is tops it must be hard for yu liverpool fans to be so far of the pace in the premiership never mind Gerrard must be good ha ha

just take a look at the stats for the most goals scored from midfield i think by far you will find Lampard is tops it must be hard for yu liverpool fans to be so far of the pace in the premiership never mind Gerrard must be good ha ha

Why you feel you have to keep bringing up the fact that Liverpools league position is not the best, when this thread is about whether Gerrard or Lampard should be dropped from the England team i dont know, but i guess its all you can muster seeing as you have no real opinion on the OP.
What do you mean by "gerrard is off the pace" ?

just take a look at the stats for the most goals scored from midfield i think by far you will find Lampard is tops

And its all about goals from a midfielder is it ? Again you refer to Liverpool and Chelsea, when this thread is about England!
Just take a look at the poll for this thread. You are one of a minority of people who believe Lampard is a better all round player than Gerrard, along with the fact that Gerrard is by far the more prefered option when it comes to a central midfield role for England.

How many managers will it take to get "2" players to play together,
were in the crap.
I agree,well and truly in it.

I am going to bring up another point-
In my opinion gerrard is also a better leader and captain then john terry.
Reasons for this-
Watch the fa and champions league finals from 05/06 and 04/05

Gerrard will perform better if he is captain

I am going to bring up another point-
In my opinion gerrard is also a better leader and captain then john terry.
Reasons for this-
Watch the fa and champions league finals from 05/06 and 04/05

Gerrard will perform better if he is captain

Totally agree. Where was john Terry during Englands last two games ? He did seem to have hid, when he should have been dragging the team up to its full potential.
Gerrard would, as he has proved time and again with liverpool.