The celebrated quintet of cricketers who are accorded the accolade by Wisden, are as follows: Paul Collingwood, Mahele Jayawardene, Mohammad Yousuf, Monty Panesar and Mark Ramprakash.

Even at his age, the fact that he has been chosen by Wisden after such an outstanding season, prompts me to think Ramprakash should have been on the tour to Australia and possibly in the World Cup squad. Far better player than Dalrymple, Joyce or Loye methinks?

How many goes do you want Ramps to have?

He must have had 4 starts with England and never looked a good player at international level.

Jim:thumbsup:

How many goes do you want Ramps to have?

He must have had 4 starts with England and never looked a good player at international level.

Jim:thumbsup:

Inclined to agree. A tremendous fielder, and a more than useful bat in his pomp, and even a decent off break too, but at the very top he never quite cut the mustard.

In my old student house when we went to have a friendly knock about, we used to talk of doing 'a Ramprakash'. It translated as batting the way to a 30 knock, and then giving the wicket cheaply.

That was getting on for 20 years ago. He's been little different since.

How many goes do you want Ramps to have?

He must have had 4 starts with England and never looked a good player at international level.

Jim:thumbsup:

I understand the point you make and might have thought the same prior to last season - but given he had such a good year - perhaps one final chance merely because I think he is a better cricketer than some who were chosen. As HH says, he can also bowl off-breaks - and generally, all-round, must be a stronger candidate than Dalrymple?

To me it would be a backwards step for Ramps to come back into the England squad. He's always been a good county level batsman but put him in a England shirt and he can't cut it. He'd have 2 maybe 3 years tops left in him if the was to get re-called.

Yes, agree Dalrymple isn't/doesn't look the answer. So that leaves us with Blackwell........!!!!!

Thoughts on Vaughan dropping down the order and taking on the mantle of RAOS? That way we could accommodate Cook and Trescothick/Strauss as the openers and have a stronger bat at 6/7......

Jim:thumbsup:

Yes, agree Dalrymple isn't/doesn't look the answer. So that leaves us with Blackwell........!!!!!

Thoughts on Vaughan dropping down the order and taking on the mantle of RAOS? That way we could accommodate Cook and Trescothick/Strauss as the openers and have a stronger bat at 6/7......

Jim:thumbsup:

Think I'd have waved goodbye to Tres by now. Heard today that Simon Jones is on the way back - I think Broad should have been played (esp when 0-3 in Tests) by now and so I leave Harmison to sojourn in Ashington!
Still waiting for Vaughan to get runs. I usually take the view that if you're good enough for Test cricket, why not play that side in one-day games eg. Hoggard - at least he bowls straight. There are so many extras in games!
Similarly, Cook and Strauss although the latter has had a poor winter which is a pity. Picking Tremlett ahead of Hoggard?? He must be one of the worst international cricketers I've ever seen.

Yes, agree Dalrymple isn't/doesn't look the answer. So that leaves us with Blackwell........!!!!!

Thoughts on Vaughan dropping down the order and taking on the mantle of RAOS? That way we could accommodate Cook and Trescothick/Strauss as the openers and have a stronger bat at 6/7......

Jim:thumbsup:

No, I prefer a fully fit Vaughan at 3, especially for the home series where Tres will play. I've no idea what plays on his mind away from home, but here, I'd still pick him.

I think Dalrymple is worth another chance, but I'd like to see Jon Lewis playing more too, when conditions are faster. Hoggy for me is an immediate fixture and fitting in my side, Test or one day. I'd like to see Dalrymple more, because without him, we have just Monty or the Wheelie Bin as a spin option. It's also worth thinking about the fact that internationally, he's only played in one days, but his reputation is built from the four day game. A nicely prepared slow wicket to have a twin spin option at home over five days might just give him more confidence.

His batting average of 20-ish is favourable too for a lower order man. What does worry me is the fact that he has only ever bowled 2 maidens in his international career. I know one dayers aren't the best showcase for spin, but .........

I can't go with Ramps for an occassional spell, because he's had too many goes at it. Great county cricketer, but just not consistently good enough at the top level.

I think Cook could bat 4 too, but for me, it's a 'non burdened by captain or vice captain' Freddie to do a Beefy at 6/7, not Vaughan.

Think I'd have waved goodbye to Tres by now. Heard today that Simon Jones is on the way back - I think Broad should have been played (esp when 0-3 in Tests) by now and so I leave Harmison to sojourn in Ashington!
Still waiting for Vaughan to get runs. I usually take the view that if you're good enough for Test cricket, why not play that side in one-day games eg. Hoggard - at least he bowls straight. There are so many extras in games!
Similarly, Cook and Strauss although the latter has had a poor winter which is a pity. Picking Tremlett ahead of Hoggard?? He must be one of the worst international cricketers I've ever seen.

I don't think you can say that for spin. Enforced field settings, more aggressive batting, and no regard for weather change, the one day sides are one dimensional to me. I do agree about Hoggy though.

I don't think you can say that for spin. Enforced field settings, more aggressive batting, and no regard for weather change, the one day sides are one dimensional to me. I do agree about Hoggy though.

From previous posts, I suspect I am much older than yourself HH, but wonder if you can remember when Edmonds and Emburey bowled for England? They were quality spinners who could play both Tests and ODIs. Isn't the bottom line - the shortage of quality spinners, such that Panesar came from nowhere to star - but I was thinking more of Cook v Loye/Joyce.
When Lancashire enjoyed success in the 70's, they had a very dour opener called Andrew Kennedy and built their innings around Kennedy playing an anchor role. Cook could be in to do that job. Hayden and Gilchrist are pretty exceptional and have few peers. I just think in the ODIs there are two many bits and pieces players who are lucky to be called "International Cricketers" - Blackwell being one such example listed earlier.
Last night, I watched Bermuda and they bowled very well - albeit for bowling a surfeit of 'extras' and one bowler sent down some beautiful leg-cutters which prompted a memory of Terry Alderman (Aus). Terry would be in the Australian team in the same way that Hoggard should be in.
There was an action (Alderman) that Harmison could model on instead of limbs racing off in all directions.
The spinner -. I watched WI v Ireland and Chris Gayle put the blocks on Ireland showing how important a good spinner can be. It reminded me of good club cricket days when you rarely faced one - but when you did, you couldn't get the ball off the square! You were soon out, you packed your bag and never really got sufficient experience playing spin. Nets are not the same! Like the Irish, one felt more comfortable when the ball comes onto the bat. Similarly, the Irish equivalent was no problem to the WI's batsman.

I'm seemingly out-voted on Ramps - don't strongly disagree as I know his track record and frustrations. I wouldn't choose him next summer but thought there might have been a place for him, somewhere, this winter - other than the dance floor! He just looks the part and I'd be very happy bowling with his fielding ability at hand. The Wisden 'Five' can only be accorded ONCE, so the fact that it happened in 2006, begs the question: "Where's he been until now?"

To me it would be a backwards step for Ramps to come back into the England squad. He's always been a good county level batsman but put him in a England shirt and he can't cut it. He'd have 2 maybe 3 years tops left in him if the was to get re-called.

I agree with Chairboy, that Ramprakash could have done an excellent job high up the order in OZ, and his experience would have been invaluable to "hold us together" and build a foundation, with so many other experienced players missing.

Never mind the fact he only has a couple of years left.

I don't agree with you that "he can't cut it".

All too often he has been thrown in halfway through an "already lost" series (in one case in Oz, having arrived from India only days earlier) and proved he can "cut it".

Unlike others, he's never been given a fair crack of the whip in a settled side; always being called up and thrown in with other players in the same boat.

A bowler who I think could have upset the Aussies on their patch was Charlie Shreck, with his height and the way he bangs it in. We will just have to wait 4 years and see how he develops, or not.

I don't think Ramprakash should have been considered for the world cup. I can't understand why Mal Loye (one man capable of winning a game on his own in the first fifteen overs) was dropped from the squad though, to accomodate Michael Vaughan.

From previous posts, I suspect I am much older than yourself HH, but wonder if you can remember when Edmonds and Emburey bowled for England?

Yes, I remember them both, Embers in particular. I thought Edmonds was the last half way decent leg spin before Monty.

They were quality spinners who could play both Tests and ODIs. Isn't the bottom line - the shortage of quality spinners, such that Panesar came from nowhere to star - but I was thinking more of Cook v Loye/Joyce.

Possibly, but the fact that Monty's a left hander does mean a lot. I also think that in the 70's and 80's when ODI's were played, there was much less emphasis on high scoring. When the pinch-hitting Sri Lankans came along and proceeded to smash everyone out of the ground, the effectiveness of the spinner seemed to be on the wane.

When Lancashire enjoyed success in the 70's, they had a very dour opener called Andrew Kennedy and built their innings around Kennedy playing an anchor role. Cook could be in to do that job. Hayden and Gilchrist are pretty exceptional and have few peers. I just think in the ODIs there are two many bits and pieces players who are lucky to be called "International Cricketers" - Blackwell being one such example listed earlier.

I don't remember Kennedy, but if you want Cook in that role, then I suppose Tres has to be the one to go.

Last night, I watched Bermuda and they bowled very well - albeit for bowling a surfeit of 'extras' and one bowler sent down some beautiful leg-cutters which prompted a memory of Terry Alderman (Aus). Terry would be in the Australian team in the same way that Hoggard should be in.
There was an action (Alderman) that Harmison could model on instead of limbs racing off in all directions.

Yes, Harmy can certainly be ungainly! Alderman was a brilliant bowler. I also remember a great piece of graffiti from the mid-80's when I was still in London. It was at the time when Gooch was being trapped with relentless regularity. There was a huge scrawl of "FREE SILCOTT", and underneath that was "THATCHER OUT". Underneath that was;

"LBW b Alderman 5".

Used to giggle (and wince) every day going home from school seeing that.

The spinner -. I watched WI v Ireland and Chris Gayle put the blocks on Ireland showing how important a good spinner can be. It reminded me of good club cricket days when you rarely faced one - but when you did, you couldn't get the ball off the square! You were soon out, you packed your bag and never really got sufficient experience playing spin. Nets are not the same! Like the Irish, one felt more comfortable when the ball comes onto the bat. Similarly, the Irish equivalent was no problem to the WI's batsman.

I see what you mean, but really, I think that was more down to the difference in talent. I really do think that the days of spin in ODI's are numbered, save for your Muralis, etc. In Tests, you don't mind the spinners taking a bit of a swatting so long as the wickets tumble. In ODI's where the runs are key, I wouldn't like to risk it as much.

I'm seemingly out-voted on Ramps - don't strongly disagree as I know his track record and frustrations. I wouldn't choose him next summer but thought there might have been a place for him, somewhere, this winter - other than the dance floor! He just looks the part and I'd be very happy bowling with his fielding ability at hand. The Wisden 'Five' can only be accorded ONCE, so the fact that it happened in 2006, begs the question: "Where's he been until now?"

Point taken.

Once again Geoff Boycott isn't on the list - it's a disgrace!

Once again Geoff Boycott isn't on the list - it's a disgrace!

1965 was the year Geoffrey had his moment - alongside Peter Burge, Bobby Simpson, Graham McKenzie and Worcestershire's Jack Flavell. Cricket was still being played at Bramall Lane then!

I'm very sorry that Mathew Hayden didn't get it. He's an outstanding player.

I'm very sorry that Mathew Hayden didn't get it. He's an outstanding player.

Hayden was one in 2003, can only be awarded once!

I'm sorry! I was not aware of the rules for the selection!

Yup, just the once.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisden_Cricketers_of_the_Year

I would think Chanderpaul would be a likely contender this year?

With Wisden being published next month, I thought I'd resurrect this thread. Who do you think this year's 5 will be? Here's my prediction (for 4):

Otis Gibson
Chanderpaul
Zaheer Khan
Ian Bell

Struggling to think of a fifth at the moment.

With Wisden being published next month, I thought I'd resurrect this thread. Who do you think this year's 5 will be? Here's my prediction (for 4):

Otis Gibson
Chanderpaul
Zaheer Khan
Ian Bell

Struggling to think of a fifth at the moment.

Sangakkara ?

I hope Ottis Gibson is correct. He had an outstanding season and played the game with a smile!

I'd like to see Mark Boucher on there.

Got to agree on Gibson and Chanderpaul. Not sure on the others.

Jim

With Wisden being published next month, I thought I'd resurrect this thread. Who do you think this year's 5 will be? Here's my prediction (for 4):

Otis Gibson
Chanderpaul
Zaheer Khan
Ian Bell

Struggling to think of a fifth at the moment.

So four out of four ain't bad. The fifth one was Sidebottom.

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/wisden/content/story/344823.html

I got mine from Amazon at £24.

Well done James 49, I've no problem with Sidebottom. Mine should be arriving tomorrow but it's getting to magnifying glass stage for me!

With Wisden being published next month, I thought I'd resurrect this thread. Who do you think this year's 5 will be? Here's my prediction (for 4):

Otis Gibson
Chanderpaul
Zaheer Khan
Ian Bell

Struggling to think of a fifth at the moment.

Respect due!

I think the top 2 where nailed on, but to get Bell and Zaheer Khan was pretty mighty work.

Jim:thumbsup:

PS I think we should have the "who'se going to be on the Wisden 2009 list" prediction thread now!:hihi:

With Wisden being published next month, I thought I'd resurrect this thread. Who do you think this year's 5 will be? Here's my prediction (for 4):

Otis Gibson
Chanderpaul
Zaheer Khan
Ian Bell

Struggling to think of a fifth at the moment.

That's a bit impressive. Would you like to do my lottery numbers for me?

Respect due!

I think the top 2 where nailed on, but to get Bell and Zaheer Khan was pretty mighty work.

Jim:thumbsup:

PS I think we should have the "who'se going to be on the Wisden 2009 list" prediction thread now!:hihi:

I'd like to think that Stuart Broad might be one of them