Following on from the Cannabis Cafe topic which had some interesting views...lets try this poll. Please vote, the more people that vote the more interesting the results could be.

Again I know of people who have benefitted for medical reasons from canabis. In fact it was suggested by a GP for my sister to help her with depression.
He didn't offer any dealers though :lol:

Some people believe it is a spring board for other 'harder' drugs and I have seen this happen also. But in most cases people just use canabis for recreational purposes, there is nothing to say that cigarettes are not a springboard for other harder drugs - but I they seem to be having a hard time making those illegal?

Moon Maiden

The argument that cannabis leads onto harder drugs is as ridiculous as saying all alcoholics starting off drinking milk, lets ban milk!

I saw a report in one of the newspapers, that taking cannabis destroys the brain cells, if this is true would anyone seriously want to take cannabis?

Suppose I am lucky being brought up in an age when drugs for recreation were not heard of, but surely any young person wouldn't want to destroy their lovely young body by taking drugs would they?

I saw a report in one of the newspapers, that taking cannabis destroys the brain cells, if this is true would anyone seriously want to take cannabis?


Again you can use the same argument for Ciggies or life in general. From the moment we are born we loose braincells.

Also drugs of recreation being heard of??? Perhaps it was just my Grandad's nosiness but he knew many men who became addicted to 'recreational' drugs. In fact WWII aided in hightenting the image of smoking cigarettes.

The problems we face today in general haven't increased over the recent years - it is just we are been told and talk more.. Like the argument that gay people didn't exist beofre say the 60's :shock:

On a wierder note - my mum undertook a recreational experiment based on what she had learned at nursing school and firmly believes that the information been given about cannabis is crap. She has doubts about others drugs but does concede it is down to the individuals chemistry and ability to handle the experience.

Moon Maiden

I think the whole argument of cannabis leading to harder drugs is nonsense too. I think if that happens to someone, it is that they have that kind of personality. Some people are that way inclined...they feel the need to have more and will try anything. They are always looking for new thrills in life..or are just weak minded and influenced by the wrong kind of people. I know plenty of people who smoke cannabis and would never try anything else including LSD or ecstasy which aren't thought of as 'hard' drugs in this day and age. At the end of the day if Heroin were to be legal, would you rush out and try it? I certainly would not. And i certainly wouldn't do it to look cool either. So it annoys me when people say that if cannabis were to be legalised, everyone would rush out and try it. Give people a bit more credit to decide what they want to do with their bodies. Its the same as a lot of people choose not to smoke or drink and they are legal. Not everyone wants to try something just because its legal.

As for drugs not being heard of when you were growing up Halevan, that is down to media and the medical world of today. Drugs have been taken for recreational use since god knows when, take opium for example, http://opiates.net/

The use of cannabis is believed to go back 4000 years! It could be bought in shops and even Queen Victoria used it!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/1632726.stm

I just cast my vote... 10 people have voted so far... TEN!
I'm afraid this survey may not reach levels of statistical significance, but it'll be anecdotally interesting, I guess.

Marijuana has been DOCUMENTED as being taken recreationally for 4000 years, true. However, many naturally occurring chemicals, found in various flora and fauna have most likely aided human evolution since very early times.
There is a school of thought that suggests symbiotic links between human brain evolution, and psylocibin mushrooms (highly entertainingly hallucinogenic). These mushrooms are most associated on GRAZING land... thereby encouraging nomadic herdspeople to stay put for awhile to enjoy the scenery.
Shamanic visions probably deserve a mention at this point.
Marijuana simply alters the perception and literally "takes one to another level"... a HIGHER mental state. OK, lots of people muck about when high, but any stimulant's effect will vary according to your peer group and environment.
The only steps on the ladder of any validity, are the ones leading to the advancement for the need to learn and experience MORE.

Marijuana, Psylocibin, Flygaric toadstools, Peyote, poisonous toads(!), LSD, MDMA... far less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol.

read Terence McKenna's FOOD OF THE GODS... superb!
also Aldhous Huxley's DOORS OF PERCEPTION is worth it for a giggle.

Also 'Herbs of The Northern Shaman' By Steve Andrews deals with alot of shamanistic plants. Many can be found growing in Sheffield on grass verges.
Steve has tried many different drugs over his many years and also grows alot of legal vegetation in his garden in Cardiff - the guy has managed to grow Kiwi fruit :shock:
He may be popping up this way to take a herbal workshop in the near future.

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "tymr"

I just cast my vote... 10 people have voted so far... TEN!
I'm afraid this survey may not reach levels of statistical significance, but it'll be anecdotally interesting, I guess.


Thank you for voting and I totally agree. I was hoping for more votes so I could post some analysis of the results up but i need a lot more than 10 votes to do that! :(
Its kinda annoying really, as this forum is a place for us to have our say, yet people don't seem to want to vote in polls! We live in a democracy yet people can't be bothered to vote these days but that is another debate in itself! Lets just say the results so far are as I thought they would be.

Come on everyone...have your say!!

I will have to have a look at the books you both recommend moon maiden and tymr, they sound interesting. :)

Moon maiden, what is the herbal workshop about?

I voted for the top answer as it seems the closest to my scenario.

I will have to have a look at the books you both recommend moon maiden and tymr, they sound interesting.

Moon maiden, what is the herbal workshop about?

Well you can buy a signed copy of the book I recommended from ...guess where :D

The herbal workshops with be about magickal herbs - being that I am a witch and my shop is orientated as such. But I dare say Steve would incoporate some degree of information about halucigens too, as ignorance in this field is dangerous.

Moon Maiden

The Shades eh? I go past there everynight on my way home from work, always wondered what it was.

So what exactly do you sell?

We sell, books of :- pagan faiths, magick, voodoo, herbal magick and witchcraft + many more.
Cauldrons, solid colour candles, Brooms, wands, jewellry, statues (discworld) egyptian papyrus, parchment, inks, quils and incense, tarot, runes stones and divination teaching aids. Oh and crystals & T Shirts too.

erm.....think that is roughly it. You should pop in for a cuppa and a chat!

Moon Maiden

You sound like an enthusiastic dedicated drug user, well thats o.k. if it is what you want but not for me thanks. I would rather get my kicks in other ways than destroying myself.

The B.M.A. might have something to say about your distorted reasoning and thinking, a lot of amateurs think they know better than the professionals.

Personally, I want to live and be aware, of Gods beauty that surrounds us not be in a stupor and a haze through taking poison that not only destroys the brain but also the body.

I would have thought that with the standard of education today, young people would be able to work out what is bad for them, without having to have laws to stop them killing themselves. :( :( :(

Well from a proffessional POV GP's are actually suggesting to people who suffer from depression to find themselves a good dealer???

I kid you not - I know of 4 cases where different GP's have suggested this to help relieve the problems of depression. One of whom refused the suggestion as she has never wanted to try drugs.

At the end of the day there are problems with legalised medication - my brother in law has now been told that the drugs they were giving him for the last ten years to help him cope with deterioration of his spine have now caused internal injuries...but they knew this would happen and said nothing. He is now jucied up on morphine and pethadine to ope with the pain caused by the medication the professionals gave him.

I think there should be adequate information out there for ALL drugs so that people can make informed choices about their choices for health care.

It seems that the 'safe' and legal drugs are the ones the government can tax and charge you for.

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "halevan"

You sound like an enthusiastic dedicated drug user, well thats o.k. if it is what you want but not for me thanks. I would rather get my kicks in other ways than destroying myself.

The B.M.A. might have something to say about your distorted reasoning and thinking, a lot of amateurs think they know better than the professionals.


Not sure who you were referring to but since I started the post, I shall answer back! For your information I am a professional, I did an honours degree in Pharmacology which is the study of drugs and what they do to the body and what body does to the drug put in simple terms but its far more complex than that! (and not to be confused with Pharmacy) and I also did a number of years doing research. I don't want to sound like I am bragging here!! :) My point is, a lot of what people have posted here with reasons for taking some drugs, I would agree with and that is a professional opinion and not that of an amateur.

Ok some people in the BMA might not agree, same as alot of doctors may not agree (however doctors don't actually study that much Pharmacology as part of their degree, I did 3 solid years and research!). This is their opinion also, but its not their specialist field. GPs know more about drugs, and a lot of them are of the opinion that cannabis is beneficial.

There are certain drugs that I would not take since I know too much about the effects they have on the body, but cannabis, I believe to be a great drug to use both pharmacologically in pain and recreationally to open the mind with very little if any side effects.

And just so no-one thinks I am biased, I am also interested in natural drugs and homeopathy, which is why I would be very interested to attend the herbal workshop moon maiden. I like to keep my mind open unlike a lot of people out there!

I like to consider all possibilities, not just the ones that are legal.

I'm inclined to agree with Hal, I think it's a shame that so many people rely on drugs to get them through life. It's tragic when people find they need to improve their perceptions of the world by using mind-altering substances. I suppose it comes down to the crap state that the world's in at the minute.

can i just state for the record, i do not 'rely' on drugs for any such thing, i am just open to the idea! :lol:
So Sidla...do you really not agree with people with conditions who do rely on drugs to relieve their pain? they rely on drugs to get them through life, whether it be a legal drug or cannabis? If cannabis had never been made illegal would you still disagree with it? Out of interest do you disagree with other drugs that alter the mind e.g. antidepressants, alcohol, antipsychotics, pain relievers, epileptic drugs the list goes on, and they have an awful lot of side effects.

Originally posted by "halevan"

You sound like an enthusiastic dedicated drug user, well thats o.k. if it is what you want but not for me thanks. I would rather get my kicks in other ways than destroying myself.

Blah blah blah - same old cliched views. So how do you get your kicks? Bet you've enjoyed a few pints in your time? No difference, apart from the legal situation.

Originally posted by "halevan"


The B.M.A. might have something to say about your distorted reasoning and thinking, a lot of amateurs think they know better than the professionals.

Yes, the BMA have had something to say - why not check your facts?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/32194.stm

And, another source:

In a written submission, the BMA said that individual cannabinoids have a therapeutic potential in several medical conditions in which present drugs are not fully adequate. The long term effects have not been studied, but present evidence indicates that cannabinoids are remarkably safe. The accumulation of scientific evidence has been hampered by regulations restricting the use of cannabinoids to one clinical indication--as antiemetics in chemotherapy for cancer.

The BMA wants a high priority given to carefully controlled trials of cannabinoids in patients with chronic spastic disorders that have not responded to other drugs. In the meantime there was a case for the extension of the indications for nabilone and ê-9-tetrahydrocannabinol for use in chronic spastic disorders unresponsive to standard drugs.

Originally posted by "halevan"

Personally, I want to live and be aware, of Gods beauty that surrounds us not be in a stupor and a haze through taking poison that not only destroys the brain but also the body.

What sort of religous rubbish is this? God's beauty? Cannabis is a naturally occurring plant, it's all part of "God's beauty" ffs.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

I'm inclined to agree with Hal, I think it's a shame that so many people rely on drugs to get them through life. It's tragic when people find they need to improve their perceptions of the world by using mind-altering substances. I suppose it comes down to the crap state that the world's in at the minute.

Another cliched view of all drug users being helpless addicts. Most people take drugs recreationally - ie. they're fun, like having a few beers, but different, not because they rely on them, or need to "improve" their perceptions of the world.

Taking drugs is a very personal thing, if somone wants to take them okay, that is their choice no one can or will do anything about it as we all know.

A drug addict is convinced that drugs are harmless and will not be persuaded otherwise, well that is their opinion but it is not mine and I shall not be persuaded otherwise either.

good luck to you whoever you are, you will need it!!!

Originally posted by "halevan"

A drug addict is convinced that drugs are harmless and will not be persuaded otherwise, well that is their opinion but it is not mine and I shall not be persuaded otherwise either.


What, even when the BMA says they're safe? That's just being closed minded.

A drug addict is convinced that drugs are harmless and will not be persuaded otherwise, well that is their opinion but it is not mine and I shall not be persuaded otherwise either.


An interesting comment. I was once a drug user but do not partake because of the kids. But I do think drugs can be very dangerous - for the vast majority of recreational drug users they are more than aware of the dangers of both legal and illegal drugs - more so perhaps than your average joe.

I don't think people are trying to persuade you otherwise Hal - just show you othersides. As you said you never heard about such things until recently which may mean you have not been exposed to certain evidence and facts. You know yourself how hard you fight when you believe you have a strong valid point.

It is your decision not to take drugs - kewl, but surely it is good to be informed of ALL sides?

Moon Maiden

Your wrong Moon Maiden, I have been aware of drugs both medical and recreational for many many years more than I care to remember. For the past thirty years I have been taking pain killing drugs to keep me going, at one time I thought that I would have to commit suicide because the pain was so Intense

And I still suffer every day of my life beleive me, It is not funny, However, I only take what is absolutely neccessary at the time and go without them completely whenever I can. I do, and have mixed with, drug addicts been around a lot so don't tell me what I don't know about drugs as I am a man of the world.

It puzzles me to see Intelligent young ,and not so young people, putting poison into their bodies quite unneccessary, all I can say is they must have a death wish and it is not a quick or pleasant death either, and if they don't die immediately are left to live their lives out as cabbages. what sense is there in that EH?

Do you actually know how many people die from illegal drug deaths compared with deaths from legal drugs? The figure for death from illegal drug taking is NO WHERE NEAR the amount of people who die from taking say an aspirin.

The number of people who died from taking cannabis last year was a big fat 0. The number of people who died from smoking legal cigarettes and drinking legal alcohol far exceeds over a 1/4 of a million.

The only drug that bothers me is heroin. This is only because of the terrible effect it has on society due to people committing crime to pay for it. Did you know it would cost the NHS millions of pounds less to prescribe "clean" heroin to addicts, than to treat them for the effects of taking "unclean" heroin. I do believe if heroin addicts were prescribed heroin on the NHS, the amount of crime in this country would drop signifcantly. I know it's not ideal to pay for someones drug addiction but I often think we are paying a higher price right now.

Originally posted by "halevan"

all I can say is they must have a death wish and it is not a quick or pleasant death either, and if they don't die immediately are left to live their lives out as cabbages. what sense is there in that EH?

You may have had bad experiences regarding other drugs, but this thread is talking about cannabis - no, it's not entirely benign, and can exacerbate certain psycological problems, but is on the whole pretty safe - you can't overdose, the effects are generally over within a few hours and you're more likely to do harm from inhaling the smoke than from using the narcotic.

You can't just lump all drugs under the same umbrella - alcohol / ketamine / cocaine / heroin (as examples) are all drugs, but all have very different effects and consequences to their use and abuse.

Also, I'd have thought that the fact that you've had a history of taking pain killers to conquer what must be a distressing level of pain should make you more sympathetic to those who promote cannabis use for it's pain-relieving qualities. Suppose your condition was only treatable using cannabis, as some people with certain conditions have found?

Thank you Mike, you've hit the nail on the head...the thread is about legalising cannabis, people have been going off on a tangent and bringing in the terms of 'drug addicts'. Cannabis is not addictive.

This is a very good article
http://www.marijuana.reallybites.com/cannabis_addiction_and_cannabis.htm

Interestingly, some pain killers are very addictive, yet they are legal so I guess thats ok then?? Some people have resorted to crime and violence in order to get doctors to carry on prescribing them a highly addictive pain killer and they have basically turned into a 'drug addict' through legal means. This is not just pain killers either, tranquilzers, antidepressants to name a couple are also highly addictive yet prescribed freely and have lots of side effects. I actually get very angry with the overprescribing of some legal medications. I really don't understand why people have a problem with cannabis.

Cannabis is practically one of the safest recreational drugs around as stated here:

http://www.ephidrina.org/cannabis/health.html

Just bringing this to the top again in attempt to get more votes.

why thank you! Its a shame that Polls can't be held in the list as 'sticky' or something. You rely on people actually posting comments to keep it in the recent list. Some polls really don't attract much posting but would get votes if they didn't just disappear into oblivion!

Anyone want to comment on the results so far??

I would like to get some more results before I do.....come on everyone, why don't people want to vote anymore??!

I think Canabis should only be legalised for controlled medical reasons.
You all do agree with me that life is too short to add on more mesaries. I have been adicted to tea from quite a long time, I don't really know when I had started it. If I miss the morning tea I find it diffcult to do anything the rest of the day, and acracking head ache will definately follow. To make life harder I also developed another habit of smoking cigaretes and drinking coffee. No one would ever smile if he/she doesn't get any the whole day.
Therefore, :twisted: I think it is absolutely un wise to try or continue smoking canabis, isn't it ?

Still needs more votes!!

I believe that all drugs should be legalised, and cannabis is the current leading candidate for legalisation.

Cannabis is an 'Astonishingly safe drug' (ED50/LD50 ratio is very high and yearly fatalities per 1000 equals zero)

Cannabis is a medically therapeutic drug in its natural form.

Cannabis can be enjoyed responsibly with a low health risk.

Cannabis byproducts (fibre, seed oil, hurd) are immensely valuable and sustainably produced raw materials. Cannabis seed oil is almost purely composed of essential fats (92% unsaturated oleic oils - "Hemp seed oil has been dubbed, "Nature's most perfectly balanced oil" due to the fact that it contains the perfectly balanced 3:1 ratio of both the required essential fatty acids (EFAs) for long term human consumption.")

Regarding other drugs, such as Heroin and Freebase Cocaine (Crack):

Prohibition leads to crime; the social and financial knock on costs of crime always exceed the value of (particularly) property crime perpetrated to fund drug addictions.

This is money that could be spent on 'Schools and Hospitals'.

By legalising all currently prohibited non-prescription drugs and providing them to users at an appropriate cost or allowing them (in the case of vegetable drugs) the entitlement to cultivate a personal supply, the multi billion pound black market in prohibited drugs will gradually crumble.

Users will be protected from contaminated and dangerous substances. Higher risk substances can be provided with suitable counselling (health warnings, patient/user information leaflets.

Cannabis smokers can cultivate some plants for personal use.

The judiciary will have a weight lifted off its shoulders. Not just drug offences, but all the associated offences and crimes of money laundering, fraud, theft, corruption, etc.

It's not a magic bullet by any means. We have serious problems with drug use in this country that need dealing with, but sticking our fingers in our ears and shouting

"ALL DRUGS ARE EVIL POISON!!"

is not going to help.

The problem, as with all radical solutions, is that it is largely unpalatable to many voters. Not because it is wrong or ill-conceived, but because it represents such a huge change in thinking.

Making the switch from thinking drugs are evil, to thinking drugs are substances that influence mind and body is a difficult one to make, due to the amount of received wisdom that must be rejected.

Humans are born to explore, our inquisitiveness and desire to traverse uncharted territory has carried us to the very bottom of the ocean, the top of the highest mountain, through gigantic forests and deserts, and into space and ultimately the moon. (yes we did actually).

Is it any wonder that humans also seek to explore their own mind? The tools to do so have been in common usage for at least 10,000 years.

Imagine the scenario, Explorers, deep sea divers, space ship comanders, ships captain's all under the Influence of Illegal drug's. Don't think we should have got very far in learning and improving the lot of the human race with all these brave men and women in a stupor and a trance because of taking drugs, do you?

There brain's would be befuddled and unable to function, they wouldn't be able to think straight or logical and any mission to the planet's end in disaster, same with mountaineer's up there 29000 feet high in a rareified atmosphere full of drug's******it doesn't bear thinking about. go away and think again, if you can!!!!

Granted perhaps alot of the technically demanding jobs would have been put at risk or never occured if their leaders and evelopers enjoyed a spliff or too.

However - what about the creative jucies that are flowing thanks to illegal drugs?? Should we refuse to acknowledge works from people such as The Beatles, George Bernard Shaw, Mary Shelley, Noal Coward???

There are lots of reasons why people should not use drugs at certain times.....but I am sure the commander of a submarine or someone attempting to climb everest is not so stupid as to not understand the effects of a spliff!!!

This is the argument perhaps on the subject. Are we being treated like idiots for the minority that actually are devoid of brain function??? Also, isn't it beneficial to the progression of the human race that idiots are best left out of the foodchain??? :p

Moon Maiden

Originally posted by "halevan"

Imagine the scenario, Explorers, deep sea divers, space ship comanders, ships captain's all under the Influence of Illegal drug's. Don't think we should have got very far in learning and improving the lot of the human race with all these brave men and women in a stupor and a trance because of taking drugs, do you?

There brain's would be befuddled and unable to function, they wouldn't be able to think straight or logical and any mission to the planet's end in disaster, same with mountaineer's up there 29000 feet high in a rareified atmosphere full of drug's******it doesn't bear thinking about. go away and think again, if you can!!!!

I think you should go away and think about it to be honest! Are you really suggesting that the people in the above types of job category are all going to get 'off their faces' on drugs if they are legal???
Please give them a bit more credit. The majority of people in these types of jobs are perfectly able to make sensible judgements in life and wouldn't be that stupid to put peoples lives at risk by taking drugs at work. Please don't make out that they are stupid, that is not fair.
However, what they do in the own spare time is a different matter. That is their choice and they are entitled to have the freedom to choose.

I certainly would not get stoned and go to work and I'm sure there wouldn't be a lot of people that would.

As for not being able to think straight or logically, you have obviously not tried a spliff. I know a lot of people who can actually think more logically when stoned and Moon maiden has made some very valid points. Look at some of the creativity in this world that would be lost if they hadn't dabbled with drugs. Music, art, writtings, inventions etc
You've just got to be sensible and strike the right balance in my opinion. Besides a lot of jobs have drug testing, and if certain drugs were to be made legal, there could still be drug screening for certain jobs if they wanted to have this, although you wouldn't be able to be prosecuted you could be suspended or sacked.

Originally posted by "Foxxx"

I know a lot of people who can actually think more logically when stoned
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I read in the newspaper a few days ago according to a police report, that cannabis when its pure is not harmfull. However, they say that the "cannabis" bought on the streets from drug dealers is mixed with all sorts of harmfull rubbish so they can maximise their profits.

Dont the buyers know this? are they not bothered about being poisoned with this obnoxious substance? which they are buying at inflated prices. Personally I wouldnt touch it with a barge pole at any price.

All the more reason to legalise it, then this will stop people buying dodgy stuff!! :D

Most the people I know who smoke it, buy it from sources who grow it themselves, so they know it is pure and clean. Dope isn't usually bought from real dodgy dealers. The dodgy dealers are more likely to be e.g. crack dealers.

If coffee shops were in this country like in the netherlands, the money made from the tax could be put to much better use and stop lining the pockets of the dealers!

Yet another argument for legalising it!

Originally posted by "halevan"

I read in the newspaper a few days ago according to a police report, that cannabis when its pure is not harmfull. However, they say that the "cannabis" bought on the streets from drug dealers is mixed with all sorts of harmfull rubbish so they can maximise their profits.
That may have been the case years ago when most people bought resin, but most of the stuff here now is grass which is grown here and is nigh on impossible to mix with something else unless you have no idea what it looks/smells like. I've never known anyone have any ill affects from buying cannabis off the street, except for one bloke years ago who paid for some strips of car tyre by accident.

Originally posted by "halevan"

which they are buying at inflated prices.
Inflated compared to what? Drugs are cheaper now than they've ever been.

Come on more votes! And this is for Cannabis, NOT cannibalism!!

I think eating people is wrong. Even between consenting adults.

Oops. Wrong thread.

Maybe post cannabis munchies could lead to cannibalism? :P

Oz is legalising it for medical use:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3044321.stm

Addictive drugs can cost an arm and a leg.

Any drug is addictive if taken often enough.

Originally posted by "Sidla"

Any drug is addictive if taken often enough.
That depends on what you mean by addictive, enough and drug.

some drugs are anti-addictive, i.e the last thing you feel like doing after taking it, is taking it again. They can be taken repeatedly without any addiction forming (psychological or physiological).

tymr wrote:
'read Terence McKenna's FOOD OF THE GODS... superb!'

Funnily enough am just rereading Food of the Gods for the umpteenth time & hey presto on first ever visit to this forum discover your post! Glad to find another Sheffield person on similar wavelength.

Being relatively new to this area, I've no idea where I might locate a civilised supplier of psycho-actives. Or, where to search, come Autumn, for mushrooms.

Any guidance/advice welcome... :D

Originally posted by "Phanerothyme"

Any drug is addictive if taken often enough.
That depends on what you mean by addictive, enough and drug.

some drugs are anti-addictive, i.e the last thing you feel like doing after taking it, is taking it again. They can be taken repeatedly without any addiction forming (psychological or physiological).
Point taken. I meant recreational drugs.

Encouraging results! And quite right too!

Cannabis has been used by human beings for at least TEN THOUSAND YEARS...

Prohibition is only recent & politically/economically motivated - read your history.

It's simply absurd that a bunch of ageing male politicians believe they have the power to declare Nature illegal!

Cannabis seed is legal, but add water, soil & sunshine & suddenly the resulting green miracle (healing herb mentioned in the Bible) is somehow reckoned criminal.

Fax your MP (Mr Blunkett especially) & educate the ignoramus.

:D

Originally posted by "Sidla"

Any drug is addictive if taken often enough.
That depends on what you mean by addictive, enough and drug.

some drugs are anti-addictive, i.e the last thing you feel like doing after taking it, is taking it again. They can be taken repeatedly without any addiction forming (psychological or physiological).
Point taken. I meant recreational drugs.

So did I

In fact of all the recreational drugs that I do use, Cannabis is the only addictive one, and that is a psychological addiction. The others tend to develop into a pattern of once every 3 months or so, depending on availablility.

Now if I were to take these stubstances 'enough', i.e as soon as tolerance permits, say every 2 days with LSD and every hour with DMT, or every 2 days with mushrooms, I would quickly become exhausted, confused, sleep deprived and overstimulated (not to mention losing my job).

My point being is that these are recreational drugs, that if you take them enough you will find the whole experience unpleasant enough to stop you overdoing it. Unlike cocaine, alcohol no physical dependence develops and unlike cannabis, these substances (chiefly tryptamine psychedelics (or entheogens to be precise)) are anti-addictive in the psychological sense.

This does not account for the ridiculous practice of drug machismo, where a person will swallow far mor drugs than they know to be advisable simply to 'impress' their peers.

With cannabis being mentioned again in some more recent threads, I thought I'd try bring this old thread back to the top to get some more votes from all these new members we have now!

Happy voting :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tymr
Marijuana, Psylocibin, Flygaric toadstools, Peyote, poisonous toads(!), LSD, MDMA... far less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol.

what is the point of making totally ****e untrue statements like you just have above...which is obviously completely disengenuous or you dont know anything about illegal drugs.
Maybe having a word with someone who works with the mentally ill/homeless would be a good place for you to start if the latter is true...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Moon Maiden
[B]Well from a proffessional POV GP's are actually suggesting to people who suffer from depression to find themselves a good dealer???

I kid you not - I know of 4 cases where different GP's have suggested this to help relieve the problems of depression. One of whom refused the suggestion as she has never wanted to try drugs.

What an irresponsible comment...when depression is so varied and due to so many reasons Im sure a blanket sugestion of smoking some dope is "just what the doctor ordered".
How about the far more people who have depression (or far worse-total mental breakdown etc)because of dabbling in drugs?

Originally posted by gloworm

How about the far more people who have depression (or far worse-total mental breakdown etc)because of dabbling in drugs?
Just so we can get an idea of numbers - how many people are we talking about every year?

If you're unaware of the ins and outs of depression and other mental illnesses (i.e. haven't studied the subject to at least degree level, lived five years or more with a sufferer, or haven't actually suffered through any and I don't mean just feeling a bit down) then IMO it isn't really a subject you can have an informed opinion on. Add a purely anecdotal knowledge of the chemical makeup and side effect of various drugs to the list, and you're getting yourself into deep water. Time to start adding 'I believe' and 'I reckon' and 'it seems to me' to your vocabulary.

Gloworm, your friends are most likely hyping up their experiences with GPs because they were taken aback by being asked about it in the first place. Generally it goes: are you taking anything else to control your symptoms, or for recreation? I am obliged to keep this information confidential and it may help in deciding upon a treatment. (if you say yes, I take this or that) they will generally warn you about the side effects and in the case of most drugs will suggest you cut them out. If you take cannabis, they will generally say well if you genuinely feel it helps then go ahead. If they're really up with it, they may suggest you ensure you have a reliable dealer as things like opiated cannabis can be a...surprise.
This is my experience of how this works, based on many sufferers, and many doctors.

look pal im not saying i know anyone whos been told to take dope by their doctor i was replying to someone who said she knows of doctors who have said "find yourself a dealer".
As someone whos worked for quite a time voluntarily with addicts/homeless and who has in the past had serious problems associated with drugs myself i think im probably more entitled to talk about this then someone whos obviously lived the cosy (good name their cose) little middle class life i suspect you have...

Gloworm, your opinion is as valid as anyone else's on here.

You are not entitled to talk about this any more than anyone else, even if you are Keith Richards, Mother Theresa and Princess Di all rolled into one.

Cosywolf should perhaps been directing her comments at Moon Maided who first ventured the info that GPs sometimes advise patients to try cannabis.

But that is no reason to try and imply she knows nothing about the subject. I suspect (after reading her many posts on the subject (Cosy is a her isn't she, I'm not imagining this?)) that she knows a considerable amount.

GPs are not ignorant of the effects and side effects of cannabis. My mums consultant has said to my mum that she might like to use it to suppress nausea and stimulate the appetite. Also she finds it a useful analgesic in addition to morphine.

I think what this discussion shows, if anything, is that not only does Cannabis have many varied medical uses, in its plant form, but it can also be enjoyed moderately by recreational users.

The fact that you have had a bad time with some drugs really only serves to highlight the fact that some of us are not really suited to take mind altering drugs as they seem to have a mostly negative effect or create destructive habitual behaviour. This is not true of all drug users, only some drug users.

So far only 10% of voters opposed to legalisation...

[edit spelling punctuation etc]

I'm a she:wave:
Sorry Gloworm if I got my threads mixed up. All the quotey things are looking a bit messy and untranslatable. I tried to follow the thread back to it's original source, but must have got stuck in the maze :? . Apologies for misrepresentation.
Middle class stuff: see 'inverted snobbery' link.
My own experiences? Safer if you don't make assumptions really.

werent assumptions being made when you said i didnt know anything about (proper as in clinical) depression?

what i have said is that im as libertarian as the next person about what responsible adults do with their own bodies. What I am opposed to however is the kind of talk that sends out positive messages about drugs while brushing under the carpets all the negative issues.
Leeds NA (NA being as you probably know not restricted to heroin) run a stall (I'm not sure Sheffield NA have one at present) which travels round trying to spread their message and which provides plenty of examples of personal testimonies of people who became effected negatively.

Gloworm, the first part of my message was not aimed at any one person in particular. It was a random arrow of annoyance at people with no clear idea about those two issues together trying to suggest they know how things should be.
That is why I particularly (mistakenly) mentioned your name in the second bit, to point out that *that* bit was for you. But I've apologised for that cos I clearly got my threads mixed up.

As I'm really not out to get you in any way, and never suggested that you didn't have valid experiences, can I please be forgiven now? :D

PS: Phanerothyme, thank you:D

From Jan 29th cannabis is to be downgraded from class B to class C.

What are your opinions on this contentious issue?

What difference does that make?
It's still illegal.

Nomme

Originally posted by nomme
What difference does that make?

Met chief muddled by cannabis law
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3401105.stm

Sir John told LBC radio that police needed to give a clear message that the drug was still illegal. "The use and possession of cannabis is still against the law," he said. But from 29 January, cannabis is to be downgraded from class B to class C, and fewer users will face arrest if caught in possession. Police will be more likely to confiscate the drugs than make arrests, and officers will stop targeting those using cannabis in their own home.

It's about time it was completely legalised. Sometimes it's the law that's wrong, not the activity.

I don't agree Hodge. Legalising something that affects the human mind in such a way that it affects your actions is not something I'd approve of.

It should stay illegal.

Alcohol alters people's minds and actions far more than cannabis does and that's perfectly legal.

I think there is a strong case for legalising the drug. And if the powers-that-be don't agree: well, they can 'put it in their pipe and smoke it!'.

<Shrugs shoulders>

Ban alcohol as well then. I don't drink, so I don't care!

:)

/moral superiority

I respect your views, Abdul. The only thing is that banning alcohol is never, ever going to happen - rather in the way that banning smoking isn't. The government rakes far too much money in from these too scources.

So my argument is that if alcohol is legal, then why isn't cannabis?

That's a very good question Sam Miguel, and I don't know the answer. I have read that alcohol and tobacco are the drug of choice for the establishment, which is another reason those drugs will never be banned.

As to why cannabis is not legal if is alleged to be less harmful than alcohol, I don't know.

I'm for cannabis use for medicinal purposes, but I would never support its decriminalisation. Otherwise we'll go from drink driving to stoned driving.

And I would never want to see cannabis being smoked openly in the street either.

Originally posted by Abdul
I don't agree Hodge. Legalising something that affects the human mind in such a way that it affects your actions is not something I'd approve of.

It should stay illegal.

THC doesn't affect the mind in any negative way that I can think of, apart from slower reactions, which I still don't see as particularly negative, and it may sometimes cause paranoia. Unlike alcohol, I don't recall ever witnessing, or hearing about a marijuana-induced punch up, etc., lol.

If people don't agree with smoking it, then fair enough, don't smoke it, but to penalise those who do enjoy the experience in my opinion, is just wrong.

Originally posted by Abdul
<Shrugs shoulders>

Ban alcohol as well then. I don't drink, so I don't care!

:)

/moral superiority

Lol, That's cool mate, and I respect you for that. To be honest, I don't drink much either, and there have been periods where I've completely given up alcohol (6 months - not a substantial amount of time, admittedly!) - but I'd never want to stop others from enjoying drinking.

Originally posted by Hodge
THC doesn't affect the mind in any negative way that I can think of, apart from slower reactions, which I still don't see as particularly negative, and it may sometimes cause paranoia.


Is this scientifically proven though? What I do hear regularly on the news is stories about the long term effects of Cannabis which include memory loss.

Originally posted by Hodge
Unlike alcohol, I don't recall ever witnessing, or hearing about a marijuana-induced punch up, etc., lol.


Yes - robh made a similar comment a while back :D Perhaps it could be given as a sedative to people who are prone to violence!

If it was made legal, I am sure the tobacco companies would get involved.

I can just imagine brands like Embassy Cloud 9, Lambert & Reefer and Superspliffs going on sale.

Originally posted by Abdul
Is this scientifically proven though? What I do hear regularly on the news is stories about the long term effects of Cannabis which include memory loss.


Short term memory can be affected by heavy use, but then heavy use of anything can have adverse effects - too much coffee may make one hyperactive, for (a rather crap) example.

Originally posted by Abdul
Yes - robh made a similar comment a while back :D Perhaps it could be given as a sedative to people who are prone to violence!

LOL

Interesting that this post is on the go again (thanks Lickszz). I'm not going to go into it all again now as I've done that in previous posts in this thread and other threads too, however since there are loads of new members it would be good to get some more votes as the results are looking pretty interesting so far!

Originally posted by Sam Miguel

I can just imagine brands like Embassy Cloud 9, Lambert & Reefer and Superspliffs going on sale.

:) Rofl

Other brands

Half Cut
Marlboro Highs
Bongson and Hashish
Silk Skunk
Golden Virganja
Mary Jane Specials

As Timothy Leary said about LSD: ' If you've taken it, then you're biased - If you haven't taken it , then you know nothing about it.'

This, I think, also applies to 'grass'.

CarlW - your comment (or quote rather) is spot on. I couldn't have put it better myself (haha).

I must have missed this one 1st time round.

Looks like those that voted have all been a little naughty. Ooops.
:o

hmm, well, To be honest, I hate the fact that people believe that, if a doctor can prescribe you something, then it's fine. ffs! I seem to remember going to a doctor a few years ago, when i was very depressed, and was prescribed anti-depressants, which i took, because i had faith that my GP knew what she was doing. Spent a year being out of my mind, and quite frankly the worst year of my life on these legal drugs. I brought myself off them (against my GPs will), and have since had a much happier existence.
I have in the past taken illegal drugs, not to any great extent, but from time to time. And have never suffered any negative drawbacks. i haven't killed anyone, haven't lost any friends, haven't been addmitted to hospital, etc...
Please don't waffle on about filling our boddies with poisons, when we all do it. Ie. coffee, asprin, painkillers, anti-depressants, beer, hay fever remedies. Every drug has it's side effects. from experience, i've had a GP put me in a really bad state, and that lost my faith in professional medical knowledge.
Even if drugs were legalised (as metioned before) it doesn't mean that everyone in the country will be battered 24/7. most people know their limits, those that don't will find ways to harm themselves with drugs, whether they're legal or not. ie. the fact that certain drugs are illegal, doesn't make less people take them. If people want to take them, they will find them. fact!

sorry, but i'm currently intoxicated with beer, hence the above waffle. also apologise for any really bad spelling
anyway, just an opinion.

Anybody get tonight's Star (22/01/04)? On the front page in the article about police using sniffer dogs on school buses it read:

The swoops are part of a campaign to warn young people that the reclassification of cannabis does make it legal to smoke the drug.

Go to their website and it reads:

The swoops are part of a campaign to warn young people that the reclassification of cannabis does not make it legal to smoke the drug.

I know which version I prefer.

I wonder how many people rushed out to get hammered after reading it ?,,,lol

I prefer the version that doesn't lead to paranoid schizophrenia.

I agree, alcohol is a much better drug. Anti-social behaviour, violence, increased cases of domestic violence, not to mention liver damage. Isn't the law a wonderful thing?

Chris.

Originally posted by Chris_Sleeps
I agree, alcohol is a much better drug. Anti-social behaviour, violence, increased cases of domestic violence, not to mention liver damage. Isn't the law a wonderful thing?

Chris.

What about the case of the first man that died directly by cannabis abuse? He smoked an average of 6 spliffs a day over 11 years - a lot less than heavier smokers smoke. Cannabis abuse is dangerous and can cause the same health problems as cigarettes do, only it may also cause other effects such as paranoid schizophrenia. On the one hand though, cigarettes are being banned from public places and there is even talk of making them illegal from some medical journals, yet on the other, cannabis is being virtually decriminalised. YES, cigarettes and alcohol cause problems, but they are currently legal and making them illegal would cause outcry. However, cannabis is currently illegal, so why add to the problems caused by cigarettes and alcohol? Leave it illegal and let only law breakers take it (they'll probably learn their lesson in 11 years time anyway....).

To be honest t020 it's highly unlikely that was the cause of death. It's virtually impossible to take enough to kill you:

The low toxicity of THECA is best indicated by its widespread use with very few reports of anything even approaching an overdose. Occasionally, people may get too "high" for their psychic comfort, but their bodies continue to function fairly normally. The dosage sufficient to kill half of the organisms tested (LD50) for orally ingested THECA is approximately 1 g/kg of body weight. Simply interpreted, this means an average sized human would have to consume 50-100 g of pure THECA to reach the LD50 level. Since high-potency Cannabis contains approximately 10% THECA, a person would have to eat at least 500-1,000 g of this marijuana before having a 50% chance of death. A 1 g marijuana cigarette of 10% THECA Cannabis contains 100 mg of THECA and is usually shared among several smokers. Clinically effective oral doses for the relief of nausea start at 5-10 mg. This means that, even accounting for pyrolytic decomposition and smoke loss, there is a several-thousandfold difference between an effective dose of THECA and a potentially lethal one! For alcohol, this difference is only about twenty fold. Other common non-prescription drugs, such as aspirin, have similar relatively narrow margins of safe use. Research into the actions of the natural cannabinoids led to the creation of many artificial ones based on variations of their basic molecular structure. However, none of these artificial compounds are currently approved for medical use in the US

Taken from http://www.artistictreasure.com/medicalmary.html

Even if it did kill him, it would be the first ever recorded death...

Still doesn't change the fact that, already having health and social problems caused by legal drugs such as alcohol and tobacco, why there is such an urge to add to the problems by legalising cannabis. More people would use cannabis if it were legalised, so as a result, the same kind of health problems associated with tobacco would become even more prevalent. This contradicts drectly with the government policy on tobacco smoking. It is fair to say that there are definitely mixed messages from many directions. Smokers are often portrayed as the scum of the earth and the cause of all of the problems in life (well, not forgetting the other big criminal - the motorist), yet they don't even break a single law. On the other hand, cannabis smokers seem to be portrayed as liberal, fun loving, 'trendy' and sophisticated youngsters. It just seems one big contradiction to me.

PS. by the way, I'm not having a go but of all thread titles to rename surely this is the prime candidate?! It is very misleading indeed.

Why do you assume that cannabis has to be smoked ?

I find it quite childish that some people still like to brag about the fact that they use drugs. I have no moral objection to what they do, but drug users seem to think that we should somehow be impressed by what they get up to. It's all a bit nudge, nudge, wink, wink, hey look at us, we're using illegal substances. It's no different to boozers banging on about how drunk they got over the weekend. It's not big and it's not clever. It's just boring.

Originally posted by mojoworking
I find it quite childish that some people still like to brag about the fact that they use drugs. I have no moral objection to what they do, but drug users seem to think that we should somehow be impressed by what they get up to. It's all a bit nudge, nudge, wink, wink, hey look at us, we're using illegal substances. It's no different to boozers banging on about how drunk they got over the weekend. It's not big and it's not clever. It's just boring.

Well i actually "sit on the fence"regarding the issues discussed.What about the people with m.s. who actually feel a benifit after smoking cannabis?Isnt it medically proven that cannabis actually helps m.s. sufferers with pain relief?Didnt the medical proffesion provide cannabis for sufferers when doing medical reasearch into the "drug"?Im confused....................who's right who's wrong?

Originally posted by t020
Still doesn't change the fact that, already having health and social problems caused by legal drugs such as alcohol and tobacco, why there is such an urge to add to the problems by legalising cannabis. More people would use cannabis if it were legalised, so as a result, the same kind of health problems associated with tobacco would become even more prevalent. This contradicts drectly with the government policy on tobacco smoking. It is fair to say that there are definitely mixed messages from many directions. Smokers are often portrayed as the scum of the earth and the cause of all of the problems in life (well, not forgetting the other big criminal - the motorist), yet they don't even break a single law. On the other hand, cannabis smokers seem to be portrayed as liberal, fun loving, 'trendy' and sophisticated youngsters. It just seems one big contradiction to me.

PS. by the way, I'm not having a go but of all thread titles to rename surely this is the prime candidate?! It is very misleading indeed.

If you vaporise, eat or drink it then you don't get the health problems assosciated with tobacco...

That will get picked up by some comedian or satirist and be on TV.

I bet someone got a right bollocking!

Checked my version of the Star (district edition) and it was correct, someone must have changed it after, lol.

Originally posted by fnkysknky
If you vaporise, eat or drink it then you don't get the health problems assosciated with tobacco...

No, but the problems with cannabis poisoning are believed to be a greater risk if cannabis is eaten.

Originally posted by t020
No, but the problems with cannabis poisoning are believed to be a greater risk if cannabis is eaten. cannabis poisoning?

:confused:

you'd fall asleep before you even got close. :D

There is, absolutely no evidence that cannabis itself causes violent behaviour.

The direct link between alcohol and violence is proven, and the damage caused as a result is increasing constantly. Even prescription drugs have huge hazards - only recently, the entire new generation of anti-depressants, apart from Prozac, were banned for under-18s, because they can trigger severe mental illness in later life."

There is no proof at all of a direct link between the immediate disorientation caused by cannabis and violent behaviour. If anything, the average user is unlikely to venture far beyond their front door, if they do over-indulge and suffer from paranoia.

removed by spook

Originally posted by t020
No, but the problems with cannabis poisoning are believed to be a greater risk if cannabis is eaten.

Read through the article I posted above again t020, the LD50 of cannabis is so high you'd need to eat 500g-1000g of decent bud to have a 50% chance of dying from cannabis poisoning. Being that an ounce of bud usually costs around £120 (28 grams) then you're looking at eating £2k-£4.5k worth of the stuff before you have half a chance of dying. Managing to eat that amount would be a minor miracle in itself, cannabis is very light and so half a kilo is a hell of a lot. Plus eating it 'raw' wouldn't do anything as the THC wouldn't be released, it needs to be prepared with fat or alcohol so you'd have to eat it in a very, very large cake or something. More than likely you'd be stoned out of your tree or full to bursting before you got to the end. Even if by magic you managed to finish it you've still only got a 50% chance of dying. See what I'm getting at? As for smoking enough to poison you, it's just not possible, I know 'cos I've tried...

I think that most people who do not consume cannabis would see no difference if it was de-criminalised.

It makes me laugh when people who don't take it, and never have, carp on about the social or physical effects of this drug. I strongly suspect that people who have had so called pyschiatric problems after using it are looking for a reason for their illness and wiould have been il regardless of smoking a joint. Yes, people can get paranoid on it but this stops when you stop smoking it, have a sleep and consume a large quanitity of chocolate.

The problem is that the government doesn't have the balls to go the whole hog and the Tories will exploit it for political gain. Look at countries where it is tolerated and they do not have the problems or high level of usage that we have. It is not up to the state to tell us what we can do, we should be educated to make our own fully informed choices.

The trouble with the cannabis argument, is that it's difficult to have an objective opinion. I have searched the internet for hours trying to find strong evidence that cannabis causes mental illness, cancer, memory loss, flash backs etc, etc. There is loads of material, but it is all very subjective.

There are many sites with 'evidence' that there is no connection between cannabis and illnesses that have been associated with it. These sites seem to have been compiled by cannabis lovers and even regular smokers of the drug.

There are also sites that say there is 'strong evidence' to suggest a link between the drug and associated illnesses, but these site seem to be compiled by, dare I say, people like t020, who would seemingly do anything to keep the drug illegal.

I would therefore like to abstain from giving my opinion. I have no problems with people who smoke the drug on a casual basis, and I have tried it myself in the past. However I would have concerns about anyone who smokes cannabis on a regular basis, and about people who become dependant on the drug.

I'd just like to say that it SHOULD BE. However - even without reading ALL of the postings, I know that unfortunately - it isn't. :mad:

Not fair??????

I smoke weed as it helps me with my joint problems. The fact that its enjoyable too is a bonus.

Originally posted by mojoworking
I find it quite childish that some people still like to brag about the fact that they use drugs. I have no moral objection to what they do, but drug users seem to think that we should somehow be impressed by what they get up to. It's all a bit nudge, nudge, wink, wink, hey look at us, we're using illegal substances. It's no different to boozers banging on about how drunk they got over the weekend. It's not big and it's not clever. It's just boring.
Phew, I thought that it was just me that thought this. Like booze, people's ability to be entertaining and interesting is in inverse proportion to their ingestion of mind altering drugs. (PS, I like alcohol, and sometimes drink too much - I too become a bit boring, however it's legal and one drug is quite enough)

I smoke quite a lot of cannabis and yes it does make you paranoid. But in my eyes thats all part of the experience and if your strong minded enough it just add's the the fun. I smoke it for a number of reason's which I won't bother going into as it's most likely been said/heard before. In my eyes it is legal the cops don't seem to care about it and I walk freely around Town etc smoking it without anyone saying a thing. As long as I'm not around Children or bothering anyone by it then I see no harm being done.

1 Death is hardly enough to RULE it as causing paranoid scitzophrenia. If you ask me that death was brought up and made known to the public for a reason. That being many people feel strongly it should be legalised but the Government don't want it to be and by placing their little brainwashing programs on TV like that people like t020 immediately presume it does cause these problems and it swings the publics opinion against it.

People have been smoking Cannabis since Christ. Infact Jesus was probably getting high with his homeboys whilst knocking back the vino. 1 Death since Christ. Hardly something to stand on is it???

Originally posted by Siân
Why do you assume that cannabis has to be smoked ?

It is nice in brownies.

And in Flapjack! Chocolate Truffles are also a fav :D

Flapjack sounds good, how about in Parkin for bonfire night ?

Which is the "illegal" part of cannabis....obviously distributing it but is buying cannabis seeds illegal? Is growing it illegal if its for personal use?

Originally posted by t020
Smokers are often portrayed as the scum of the earth and the cause of all of the problems in life (well, not forgetting the other big criminal - the motorist), yet they don't even break a single law.

What about the littering of thousands of cigarette butts on the streets, and motorists who flick their ash and fag ends out of their car windows?

Is it illegal? ;-)
I don't think decriminalising will make any difference. Is the country full of people just gagging for a spliff but don't because it's illegal? I shouldn't have thought so.
I can see the argument that says keep it illegal because it is, so why mess, but the social costs of cannabis use compared to alcohol, cigarettes, lard-arses and cars is a drop in the ocean. Why criminalise otherwise law abiding citizens for doing it? Seems like a waste of police and judicary time and the police seem to agree.
People have taken mind-altering substances since before they were painting caves. It's part of humanity and you aren't going to stop them.

Oregano has 39 different carcinogenic compounds in it btw.

Hear me go again! How many threads, same old arguments. I'm going to bring back the poll thread I set up to get some more people to vote.

Yet again T020, you have made the statement


More people would use cannabis if it were legalised

And yet again, I will say, there is no evidence for this. There might be a slight curiosity increase initially, but you'll find most people who have had it, will continue, most people who never had it, will still not want it, and there would be very few that wouldn't have it because it was illegal and would suddenly decide to try it now it was. Ok, so the poll isn't across the country, but it's a representation of people on this forum, and not one person has voted that they'd try it now it was legal. Give people some credit. And yet, again, I'll point out that studies in Netherlands showed a decrease in the number of users once it was decriminalised. I've posted links to all the studies before.

Previous thread (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=701&perpage=15&highlight=cannabis&pagenumber=6) Please vote if you're a new member!

Just bringing thread back, to get some more votes from newer members!

And to create another discussion......has anyone got some funny cannabis related stories? or any horror stories??

I had a hash cake so strong it made my friend laugh so much he started to be able to breath though his right ear. He could still do it the next day but he said it really hurt.

Originally posted by PaulV
Is it illegal? ;-)
I don't think decriminalising will make any difference. Is the country full of people just gagging for a spliff but don't because it's illegal? I shouldn't have thought so.
I can see the argument that says keep it illegal because it is, so why mess, but the social costs of cannabis use compared to alcohol, cigarettes, lard-arses and cars is a drop in the ocean. Why criminalise otherwise law abiding citizens for doing it? Seems like a waste of police and judicary time and the police seem to agree.
People have taken mind-altering substances since before they were painting caves. It's part of humanity and you aren't going to stop them.

Oregano has 39 different carcinogenic compounds in it btw.

I never knew nutmeg could kill you.

Originally posted by halevan
Suppose I am lucky being brought up in an age when drugs for recreation were not heard of, but surely any young person wouldn't want to destroy their lovely young body by taking drugs would they?

When in history did people not use drugs for recreation?

The unique period of history in which Halevan grew up is of great interest to me as well.

I know I've already asked you and you never replied but exactly how old are you?

I guessed at 605 but if you can remember a time of no recreational drug use it must be way older.

Originally posted by Foxxx
Just bringing thread back, to get some more votes from newer members!

And to create another discussion......has anyone got some funny cannabis related stories? or any horror stories?? Yes Drugs are not funny people DIE.

Originally posted by Snook
When in history did people not use drugs for recreation?

well, since

a) “We have drunk the Soma; we have become immortal; we have gone to the light; we have found the gods.” (Rig Veda 8.48.1-15) (about 1000 BCE) (anyone who has used enthoegenic psychedelics (not taken them, used them) will be familiar with this sensation.

b)During the reign of Akhenaton in Egypt (1350 BC) Egypt traded Opium accross the Mediterranean and into Europe.

c) Sumerian (Iraqi) clay tablets record more than 20 Recipes for wine in around 3000 BCE (yes, it's a drug)

a) ethnobotanist researchers found psilcocybean mushroom spores in honey vessels in the Catal Huyuk region and good suggestive evidence for mushroom/cattle worship which date back to 6500BCE (reliably carbon dated)

[Unfortunately there is little written evidence for this because they had yet to invent writing in the worlds oldest city (or anywhere else on the planet).]

People have been ingesting substances to alter their perceptions since they became people, and very possibly before that. It's part of being human, altering your perceptions knowingly and deliberately.


Doing so carelessly invites disaster, but careful practice is not engendered through prohibition....

Prohibition is a failure, let's try something else, like licensing.

People have been ingesting substances to alter their perceptions since they became people, (((and very possibly before that))). It's part of being human, altering your perceptions knowingly and deliberately.

just adding to what you are saying Phanerothyme

i watch a program on tv call weird nature or somethin
it had these deer in alaska eating mushrooms getting wasted
you could see it in they eyes. they new what there were doing..

its not part of being human its part of being alive full stop.
life is about experence if you dont what to experence it dont!! but can i plz?

the one thing i lov to do is watch a film with a smoke.
then watch it again without a smoke. its a hole new film
watch 2 films from blockbuster for the price of 1
thats the way to beat the Man (school of Rock top film)

Originally posted by tosh13
Yes Drugs are not funny people *ARE!

*Corrected ;-)

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
It's part of being human, altering your perceptions knowingly and deliberately.
Nahhh, it's part of trying to be something that you're not.

Drugs are for others. You can be yourself without them. Anything else is not fulfulling your potential.

Drugs don't make people, people make drugs, and people are far more interesting without them.

The brain is the most amazing instrument ever created and it functions beautifully in its natural state. Surely, the world is the most incredible place if you appreciate it first hand?

What's missing if you need perception altering drugs to fill a gap?

Originally posted by tosh13
Yes Drugs are not funny people DIE.
Not from ingesting cannabis.

Originally posted by Tony
Nahhh, it's part of trying to be something that you're not.

Drugs are for others. You can be yourself without them. Anything else is not fulfulling your potential.

Drugs don't make people, people make drugs, and people are far more interesting without them.

The brain is the most amazing instrument ever created and it functions beautifully in its natural state. Surely, the world is the most incredible place if you appreciate it first hand?

What's missing if you need perception altering drugs to fill a gap? Well said Tony,People do not need drugs & the people who make them & distribute them should be shot.

Originally posted by draggletail
Not from ingesting cannabis. How the hell do you knoware you a chemist.have you ever lost a member of your family through this evil S**T.people do die from drugs I know first hand.

Well of course people die from drugs....but that's a pretty big umbrella my friend

From Ingesting cannabis?

I'm afraid the answer is no, they don't die.

Originally posted by boyface
Well of course people die from drugs....but that's a pretty big umbrella my friend

From Ingesting cannabis?

I'm afraid the answer is no, they don't die. What could be the long term effects of eating cannabis any idea????

Let's get one thing clear straight away. Cannabis is not "a drug". Or rather, it is, but the term "drug" immediately gives rise to all sorts of associations that are mostly political. In the first instance, and this should be remembered when talking about "drugs" in any negative sense, is that cannabis is a plant. It is when this natural substance is prepared and then ingested in certain ways that it becomes a drug: exactly the same way that alcohol is based on natural ingredients (yeast, water, sugar, barley/hops/anything else) prepared in certain ways, as is heroin (the opium poppy), cocaine (the coca leaf) and so on. Drugs do, quite literally, grow on trees. It is when we associate these natural substances with the usually pejorative term "drug" that they start becoming the sorts of things politicians, newspapers, teenagers get interested in.... but please remember, it's just a bloody flower.People make drugs.

so what's your point. Is anything that's processed automatically bad?
What about caffeine in coffee? Alchohol? endorphins released when you eat chocolate? That's chocolate having a direct effect on your brain, does that mean we should ban chocolate?

It sounds to me like the label attached to canabis has altered your view of it.

Originally posted by tosh13
Let's get one thing clear straight away. Cannabis is not "a drug". Or rather, it is, but the term "drug" immediately gives rise to all sorts of associations that are mostly political. In the first instance, and this should be remembered when talking about "drugs" in any negative sense, is that cannabis is a plant. It is when this natural substance is prepared and then ingested in certain ways that it becomes a drug: exactly the same way that alcohol is based on natural ingredients (yeast, water, sugar, barley/hops/anything else) prepared in certain ways, as is heroin (the opium poppy), cocaine (the coca leaf) and so on. Drugs do, quite literally, grow on trees. It is when we associate these natural substances with the usually pejorative term "drug" that they start becoming the sorts of things politicians, newspapers, teenagers get interested in.... but please remember, it's just a bloody flower.People make drugs.

The label attached to cannabis has been attached by scientists that it damages brain cells ,ok alchohol & ciggys are bad for you,a driver can be banned for drink driving while a moron high as a kite on cannabis can drive around all day long.I have seen these kids first hand & it is frightening,I guess we live in a society that some say it is bad some say it isn't .The plain fact is Cannabis is a drug & the qoute I made, came from a Cannabis website not from me.Plenty of kids have gone on to harder stuff after starting on Cannabis & I know this first hand as well.

Originally posted by tosh13
What could be the long term effects of eating cannabis any idea???? In the first instance, and this should be remembered when talking about "drugs" in any negative sense, is that cannabis is a plant. It is when this natural substance is prepared and then ingested in certain ways that it becomes a drug:

Originally posted by tosh13
In the first instance, and this should be remembered when talking about "drugs" in any negative sense, is that cannabis is a plant. [i]It is when this natural substance is prepared and then ingested in certain ways that it becomes a drug[i]:

Incorrect.

Eating cannabis in any state, will get you "high" (as with lots of other "drugs")!

The main danger with cannabis, is when smoked (ie mixed with tobacco)!

Also, as far as I'm aware, the same laws apply to drug-driving as to drink-driving.

actually i'm pretty sure that most studies have shown that canabis is less harmful than cigarettes and less harmful than binge drinking.
The law to be clear is that it's illegal to drive whilst under the influence of alchohol or drugs, so no points to you there.
The plain fact is that a drug is any substance that has an affect on the body, so that's pretty much anything we can ingest, and we (as a race) have been using various drugs, natural and prepared for as long as we have history.

There is also little to no evidence to suggest that canabis use indicates that someone will move onto harder drugs, and what link there is is probably created by the very fact that it's illegal and they have to deal with some shady drug dealer to get it. If they bought it down at the corner shop it's unlikely that the shop keeper would have any incentive for giving them a free helping of heroin, whereas the drug dealer does have that incentive.

Originally posted by tosh13
The label attached to cannabis has been attached by scientists that it damages brain cells ,ok alchohol & ciggys are bad for you,a driver can be banned for drink driving while a moron high as a kite on cannabis can drive around all day long.I have seen these kids first hand & it is frightening,I guess we live in a society that some say it is bad some say it isn't .The plain fact is Cannabis is a drug & the qoute I made, came from a Cannabis website not from me.Plenty of kids have gone on to harder stuff after starting on Cannabis & I know this first hand as well.

Originally posted by Cyclone
actually i'm pretty sure that most studies have shown that canabis is less harmful than cigarettes and less harmful than binge drinking.
The law to be clear is that it's illegal to drive whilst under the influence of alchohol or drugs, so no points to you there.
The plain fact is that a drug is any substance that has an affect on the body, so that's pretty much anything we can ingest, and we (as a race) have been using various drugs, natural and prepared for as long as we have history.

There is also little to no evidence to suggest that canabis use indicates that someone will move onto harder drugs, and what link there is is probably created by the very fact that it's illegal and they have to deal with some shady drug dealer to get it. If they bought it down at the corner shop it's unlikely that the shop keeper would have any incentive for giving them a free helping of heroin, whereas the drug dealer does have that incentive. Where does the evidence come from that say's Canabis doesn't lead to harder drugs,I have first hand knowledge that indeed using Canabis can lead to the use of harder drugs & the only reason people say it doesn't is they have not seen what damage these so called recreational drugs can do,it's society remember the Young Ones Neil the Hippy always high as akite & making fun of it,you try telling any family that has lost a child or relative that so called soft drugs are a laugh.I will not be making any further comments about this subject.

a rather unoriginal way of ducking out of the argument if you ask me.

The only evidence there is to suggest that canabis use leads to harder drugs links it to the fact that to buy canabis you have to come into contact with someone who is dealing in drugs.
Hence they may well be dealing in heroin (for 1 example of a hard drug), and in fact, they'd love it if you became addicted so they might push on you a 'free' sample.

If however you bought canabis at the corner shop, this contact would not occur, and you wouldn't have been criminalised already, so unless you would suggest that alchohol also leads to harder drugs then you have no argument. I use alchohol there simply as an alternative mood/perception altering drug that is legally available.

I doubt you'll reply now, but let me turn your question around, where does the evidence come from that suggests that canabis use does lead to harder drugs? I have first hand knowledge of people that smoked canabis as a student and are now drug free upstanding members of the community. Anecdotal evidence is worthless.
No i don't remember the young ones, you must be older than me, I wonder if that colours your perceptions?

Originally posted by tosh13
Where does the evidence come from that say's Canabis doesn't lead to harder drugs,I have first hand knowledge that indeed using Canabis can lead to the use of harder drugs & the only reason people say it doesn't is they have not seen what damage these so called recreational drugs can do,it's society remember the Young Ones Neil the Hippy always high as akite & making fun of it,you try telling any family that has lost a child or relative that so called soft drugs are a laugh.I will not be making any further comments about this subject.

Cannabis does not lead to harder drugs because of the effect it has on you.

When a person tries cannabis for the first time, enjoys it and continues to use it they begin to think that the laws on drugs are wrong and thus it is untrue what the government has said to them about cannabis killing brain cells/ being addictive whatever- they begin to falsely believe that other drugs must be the same.

i.e. "if weed does me no harm, why not try something else?!?!".

This would lead to trouble

Surely the arguement shouldn't be to legalise cannabis because it is less dangerous that tobacco (which I don't believe anyway). Surely we should be arguing for more controls on the use of legal "drugs" such as tobacco, rather than relaxing the laws on cannabis and other drugs.

Originally posted by Cyclone
a rather unoriginal way of ducking out of the argument if you ask me.

The only evidence there is to suggest that canabis use leads to harder drugs links it to the fact that to buy canabis you have to come into contact with someone who is dealing in drugs.
Hence they may well be dealing in heroin (for 1 example of a hard drug), and in fact, they'd love it if you became addicted so they might push on you a 'free' sample.

If however you bought canabis at the corner shop, this contact would not occur, and you wouldn't have been criminalised already, so unless you would suggest that alchohol also leads to harder drugs then you have no argument. I use alchohol there simply as an alternative mood/perception altering drug that is legally available.

I doubt you'll reply now, but let me turn your question around, where does the evidence come from that suggests that canabis use does lead to harder drugs? I have first hand knowledge of people that smoked canabis as a student and are now drug free upstanding members of the community. Anecdotal evidence is worthless.
No i don't remember the young ones, you must be older than me, I wonder if that colours your perceptions? I can argue all day mate about this issue,but people who do not know what it's like to lose a loved one to drugs doesn't know what they are talking about & the Young Ones is a cult show now on Sky it's about a load of stupid students who are basically brain dead & my age makes no difference mate,I was brought up in the 60s & they used drugs as it is well documented.Rock stars I might add who are still living look like death,take a look at the Stones & all the other 60s rock superstars,Ozzy Osbourne I suppose you've heard of him ,look what drink & drugs have done to him & tell me taking any kind of drug is ok!Drugs cloud your judgement just like alchohol.

Originally posted by sccsux
Incorrect.

Eating cannabis in any state, will get you "high" (as with lots of other "drugs")!

The main danger with cannabis, is when smoked (ie mixed with tobacco)!

Also, as far as I'm aware, the same laws apply to drug-driving as to drink-driving. Incorrect am I look at this link http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/DrDrew/facts.html

Originally posted by ianmitchell
Cannabis does not lead to harder drugs because of the effect it has on you.

When a person tries cannabis for the first time, enjoys it and continues to use it they begin to think that the laws on drugs are wrong and thus it is untrue what the government has said to them about cannabis killing brain cells/ being addictive whatever- they begin to falsely believe that other drugs must be the same.

i.e. "if weed does me no harm, why not try something else?!?!".

This would lead to trouble Try telling Ozzie Osbourne that drugs don't damage the brain.!

Originally posted by Patchy
Surely the arguement shouldn't be to legalise cannabis because it is less dangerous that tobacco (which I don't believe anyway). Surely we should be arguing for more controls on the use of legal "drugs" such as tobacco, rather than relaxing the laws on cannabis and other drugs.

Yes.

All drugs should be licenced, banned or freely available. Not this confusing mishmash of all three.

That includes alcohol and caffeine.

Originally posted by tosh13
Incorrect am I look at this link http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/DrDrew/facts.html

Just because it says differently on somebodies free webspace, doesn't necessarily follow that it is correct ;-)

you are still maintaining this simplistic model of "drugs" and everything fits under it.
If you stop thinking about "drugs" and think about the individual substances then you'll see quite clearly that they are not all the same and should not all be treat in the same way.
Where is the evidence to suggest that canabinoids kill brain cells? I'm pretty sure you've just pulled that one from the air.
Where is the evidence to show that canabis use leads to harder drug use. And I mean evidence, not your personal anecdotes.

Are you actually suggesting that Ozzy Ozborne only used canabis and that is why he is like he is? I saw some report that attributed most of it to the therapy some quack put him through in california for the last 10 years!

So, getting back to the young ones, what's your point? It's a tv show, it's not reality.

Originally posted by tosh13
IDrugs cloud your judgement just like alchohol.

Originally posted by sccsux
Just because it says differently on somebodies free webspace, doesn't necessarily follow that it is correct ;-) It doesn't mean it isn't either.If the drug cannabis is ok to use then why has the Government legalised it for Pain Sufferers,the plain fact is no one is sure of the damage.Being disabled I have been asked would I use Cannabis for the pain & I said no,it's a principle of mine,I was brought up & many more to beleive all drugs are dangerous there are so many drugs on the market now,Ecstacy which has killed,Heroine,Cocaine.What chance have we of destroying drug dealers,when our society argues about soft & hard drugs.

Originally posted by Cyclone
you are still maintaining this simplistic model of "drugs" and everything fits under it.
If you stop thinking about "drugs" and think about the individual substances then you'll see quite clearly that they are not all the same and should not all be treat in the same way.
Where is the evidence to suggest that canabinoids kill brain cells? I'm pretty sure you've just pulled that one from the air.
Where is the evidence to show that canabis use leads to harder drug use. And I mean evidence, not your personal anecdotes.

Are you actually suggesting that Ozzy Ozborne only used canabis and that is why he is like he is? I saw some report that attributed most of it to the therapy some quack put him through in california for the last 10 years!

So, getting back to the young ones, what's your point? It's a tv show, it's not reality. No Ozzy said on TV that he took a mass amount of different drugs,Cannibis was one of them & yes the Young Ones is a TV program but kids sometimes follow what they watch on TV. & they are no anecdotes I can pesonally say drugs destroyed a family member of mine.So I do have some experience of what drugs can do.

I take it you refused paracetamol, ibuprofen, codeine and aspirin as well. They are quite clearly drugs and have a direct affect on our nervous systems.
You don't drink coffee? Caffeine is a drug.
You would refuse antibiotics? Where does it stop. You insist that because canabis is illegal it becomes this nefarious something called 'a drug', but don't stop to think what this means.
We ingest a variety of drugs most every day, it's just that certain mood altering ones are illegal. Most with good cause, they are afterall addictive. That's the main problem, addiction. If something is not addictive then it's up to people whether they choose to take it or not. For example if I wish to ingest some rat poison (a drug yes?) then I can. It's not addictive, although it's pretty harmful. If something is addictive though (which canabis is not) then the government sees fit to protect us, and that makes sense as we become unable to stop taking the substance.
There have been many and extensive studies done into the effects of canabis, there is little to no evidence to suggest that it is harmful, and conclusive proof that it is personally and socially less harmful than other common legal forms of drug abuse.

If you want to 'destroy' canabis dealers, it's simple, make it legal, sell it down at the corner shop. The drug dealer unless he intends to open a corner shop is suddenly without customers.

Anecdotal means exactly that. A personal experience of something happening is not proof of a trend. It's just one isolated case without any scientific rigour applied to even the evidence from that one case. If you want to offer me some proof it needs to be a controlled double blind test, preferably with over 100 participants.

Originally posted by tosh13
It doesn't mean it isn't either.If the drug cannabis is ok to use then why has the Government legalised it for Pain Sufferers,the plain fact is no one is sure of the damage.Being disabled I have been asked would I use Cannabis for the pain & I said no,it's a principle of mine,I was brought up & many more to beleive all drugs are dangerous there are so many drugs on the market now,Ecstacy which has killed,Heroine,Cocaine.What chance have we of destroying drug dealers,when our society argues about soft & hard drugs.

Give up Cyclone, unfortunatly you are banging your head against a brick wall. Some people have such a narrow field of vision that what ever you say or do you will get the same closed response. And reading this thread we have a perfect example.
:(

Originally posted by tosh13
It doesn't mean it isn't either.If the drug cannabis is ok to use then why has the Government legalised it for Pain Sufferers,the plain fact is no one is sure of the damage.Being disabled I have been asked would I use Cannabis for the pain & I said no,it's a principle of mine,I was brought up & many more to beleive all drugs are dangerous there are so many drugs on the market now,Ecstacy which has killed,Heroine,Cocaine.What chance have we of destroying drug dealers,when our society argues about soft & hard drugs.

you can't really draw comparisons between cannabis and drugs like ecstacy, heroin and cocaine now can you??!?!

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
Give up Cyclone, unfortunatly you are banging your head against a brick wall. Some people have such a narrow field of vision that what ever you say or do you will get the same closed response. And reading this thread we have a perfect example.
:( Have you lost a relative to drugs???

Originally posted by Cyclone
I take it you refused paracetamol, ibuprofen, codeine and aspirin as well. They are quite clearly drugs and have a direct affect on our nervous systems.
You don't drink coffee? Caffeine is a drug.
You would refuse antibiotics? Where does it stop. You insist that because canabis is illegal it becomes this nefarious something called 'a drug', but don't stop to think what this means.
We ingest a variety of drugs most every day, it's just that certain mood altering ones are illegal. Most with good cause, they are afterall addictive. That's the main problem, addiction. If something is not addictive then it's up to people whether they choose to take it or not. For example if I wish to ingest some rat poison (a drug yes?) then I can. It's not addictive, although it's pretty harmful. If something is addictive though (which canabis is not) then the government sees fit to protect us, and that makes sense as we become unable to stop taking the substance.
There have been many and extensive studies done into the effects of canabis, there is little to no evidence to suggest that it is harmful, and conclusive proof that it is personally and socially less harmful than other common legal forms of drug abuse.

If you want to 'destroy' canabis dealers, it's simple, make it legal, sell it down at the corner shop. The drug dealer unless he intends to open a corner shop is suddenly without customers.

Anecdotal means exactly that. A personal experience of something happening is not proof of a trend. It's just one isolated case without any scientific rigour applied to even the evidence from that one case. If you want to offer me some proof it needs to be a controlled double blind test, preferably with over 100 participants. paracetamol, ibuprofen, codeine and aspirin are a legal drug Cannabis is not,but seeing as most of you know so much about drugs theres no point in anyone having a debate,as you all seem to know more than the experts.as said I have a personal reason for hating drugs.