Hi Guys,
I am in the process of taking on the lease of the South Sea in Broomhill. I am interested to know from customers past and present what is good about the place. What is bad about it and what as perspective customers what would make you go in the pub. All you comments will be welcome. (be gentle with me)
Cheers.

I think that is the only Broomhill pub in to which I have never ventured. It always seemed to be a bit like a Working Men's Club, which it probably wasn't. It always seemed to give the impression that only a few saddos ever drank in there. I think it needs a more appealing feel to it, outside and in (having said that, I have only seen in through the windows and that was a long time ago). As it is just slightly off the beaten track, people tend to forget it is there, and so miss it out on their pub crawls. As a prospective 'sometimes client' I think it needs the WOW factor to entice the crowds. You need to make it a place that people will remember, be that by making it the best typical English pub ever, or giving it new character ie bistro or some different style all together. Good luck!

where is it?:confused:

It's just around the corner from the Abbey Glen dry cleaners, opposite the building that used to be Whichcraft.

It's external appearance is offputting - rather like a 1960's box. Never been inside but pass it every Friday night on my way home through Broomhill from Walkely to Woodseats. When are you taking over? May do a slight pit stop one Friday evening for early bar..:thumbsup:

good luck, 4 years i lived in broomhill, went in on my first night, never to return...

you should do a good trade though, all the best in your new venture

Thanks for your comments. Taking over day is Wednesday 11th April. Hope to see you all there.

The original South Sea pub used to stand where Abbey Glen cleaners was. (Abbey Glen have recently moved out of the premises.) When the new development was built the new South Sea was in effect, relocated to Spooner Road.

This, I hasten to add being well before my time!

I started going to pubs in 1986 and often ventured into Broomhill. The York, in its former guise - traditional and welcoming - became my 'local', but the gang usually called into The Broomhill Tavern, The Fox & Duck and sometimes, The Nottingham House.

We more or less avoided the South Sea because it had a reputation and this continued right up to its becoming a Scream/student-type establishment. However, I began to call in and it was a thriving, decent pub, always busy, particularly on a Sunday afternoon. At one point they did superb, cheap sizzler meals (steaks served on a red hot iron pan) and there used to be pinball machines and so on.

Sadly, like the bastardisation of the once wonderful York, any pub which becomes student orientated soon becomes off limits for me. The decor is appalling, the beer is garbage and there's usually nowhere to sit. And that's saying nothing about the students....,

Broomhill is crying out for a locals' pub. Get the real ale back on, serve decent food in decent portions and stop hankering to the students - there's the Fox & Duck, York and Notty for that customer base.

Put the prices up; that's usually enough to deter them!!

I used to live in Broomhill and only really went to the Broomhill Tav and The Notty House. I agree that Broomhill could do with another more traditional pub with decent beers and food, good seating and music, and a pub quiz perhaps! I was never a fan of the yellow card pubs even in my student days, and never ventured into the South Seas. Must admit that it never looked too appealing from the outside.

The original South Sea pub used to stand where Abbey Glen cleaners was. (Abbey Glen have recently moved out of the premises.) When the new development was built the new South Sea was in effect, relocated to Spooner Road.

This, I hasten to add being well before my time!

I started going to pubs in 1986 and often ventured into Broomhill. The York, in its former guise - traditional and welcoming - became my 'local', but the gang usually called into The Broomhill Tavern, The Fox & Duck and sometimes, The Nottingham House.

We more or less avoided the South Sea because it had a reputation and this continued right up to its becoming a Scream/student-type establishment. However, I began to call in and it was a thriving, decent pub, always busy, particularly on a Sunday afternoon. At one point they did superb, cheap sizzler meals (steaks served on a red hot iron pan) and there used to be pinball machines and so on.

Sadly, like the bastardisation of the once wonderful York, any pub which becomes student orientated soon becomes off limits for me. The decor is appalling, the beer is garbage and there's usually nowhere to sit. And that's saying nothing about the students....,

Broomhill is crying out for a locals' pub. Get the real ale back on, serve decent food in decent portions and stop hankering to the students - there's the Fox & Duck, York and Notty for that customer base.

Put the prices up; that's usually enough to deter them!!

I'll 2nd that!! The place used to be okay before it was turned into a crappy Scream pub. Used to be able to get an 8oz sizling steak, onion rings and a pint for £4.99. Also used to go to the Last Laugh Comedy Club there....

It was fine back in around early 80's when it was proper local pub.....get it back to that, and it may be a good venture. The YELLOWCARD decor must go......and real ales would be nice, its been many many years since they had on proper ale there.....about 30 I think!!!!!

Its ok but the last few times Ive been in there the staff have been really miserable! Theres even a sign up joking about how the staff arent very happy and they arent lieing!
Last time I went I ordered some drinks and before I could finish saying what else I wanted the girl just walked off and started making them. Then she came back with 2 drinks and I was about to ask for the others and she just told me the price. I told her I hadnt finished ordering and she was really snotty, huffing and puffing and just repeated the price! I just paid her and had to get someone else to get the other drinks as she was clearly not interested in getting me the others I wanted!

We're going down Broomhill tonight but dont think we'll be venturing in there coz of staff the last few times.
Its a nice little pub in a good location but in my opinion you need to sort out the staff.

Real Ale would be nice.

I saw this place today, never went in it before agree it's off putting to look at from the outside. We tend to drink in broomhill ever other week so will make an effort to pop in end of April, best of luck:D

Thanks for all your comments. I agree that the decor has to change and we are loolking at introducing traditional beers. Food will be decently priced and available all day. The comments about the staff are interesting. In fairness to them I think a lot of their attitude is down to lack of leadership and training. For a long time the pub has had no support from their company and it doesnt take long for apathy to seep in but there is no excuse for rudeness. I will address this.

Hi,

Regarding staff you're exactly right mate - good leadership and top-down training should work.

I remember the York in its time as O'Neills with Dennis running the pub, he got a good deputy (Angela) and the staff were always on the ball.....and that makes a big difference to the customer's experience.

Good luck....maybe you could open with a SF meet? :)

Ade

in recent years the South Sea has had a sporadic reputation for attracing the BBC and the violence that goes with them, that's another reason some ppl have avoided it...

once again, thanks for your comments. Yes, a SF meeting on opening night would be great. I think with strong leadership and impeccable standards the rogue element will stay away. Looking at the level of trade at the moment I don't think any one is frequenting the building. Lets hope we can change all that.

i know that historically some of the uni sports team have sought (and gained) sponsorship from the South Seas to drink there and patronise it, so that may be a way to boost your revenues if it fits with your plans (guaranteed drinkers wed's and sat's)

once again, thanks for your comments. Yes, a SF meeting on opening night would be great. I think with strong leadership and impeccable standards the rogue element will stay away. Looking at the level of trade at the moment I don't think any one is frequenting the building. Lets hope we can change all that.

Hi,

Regarding staff you're exactly right mate - good leadership and top-down training should work.

I remember the York in its time as O'Neills with Dennis running the pub, he got a good deputy (Angela) and the staff were always on the ball.....and that makes a big difference to the customer's experience.

Good luck....maybe you could open with a SF meet? :)

Ade

dennis introduced me to guinness... what a top bloke he was!

it just looks too dark and uninviting from the outside.

Everytime i've been in its been dead, no atmosphere, staff looked very bored (which is fair enough, i was bored too) and definitely no incentive to go there again. And i was a student and even the cheapness didn't entice me back more than twice.

My experience of Broomhill pub crawls may be 10-15 out of date, but even back then you'd give the South Seas a wide berth. Bad beer, bad atmosphere, bad reputation.......

Are you going to rename it? I think I would.

The SOUTH SEA used to be an OK place in the early 80's, quite a mini rock pub in some ways as members of Def leppard were in there on a regular basis circa 79/80/81........however it was always a place associated with the odd bit of trouble, and generally was avoided by students until it became a SCREAM pub a few years back. Since then it has suffered with various problems, chavs, drugs, etc and in its present state is a real challenge for anyone to make it a viable business.

Broomhill has always enjoyed having its five main pubs, Fox and Duck, South Sea, York, Nottingham House, Broomhill Tavern, and later with the addition of The Place it boasts SIX watering holes. However, the question is here, since both the South Sea and the Nottingham House are or have been recently up for sale, as have the Broomhill Tavern last year, do these facts indicate a lucrative potential trading future in the area? Whenever I see a whole group of pubs for sale in one area I always ask the question.....WHY? It is usually, but not always, due the fact the present tenants or owners cannot make the business a viable going concern. Now this MAY be down to management styles and poor marketing, etc, but equally it may be that the area just cannot support 6 pubs any more.....and in the modern pub climate of closures at a staggering rate each week, and more and more becoming offices, flats or car parks, 6 pubs within walking distance of each other in a City residential suburb is asking an awful lot from the future.

Of all the pubs in Broomhill, the South Sea has the worst frontage and reputation, and in all honesty it would take a real consistent effort to change and raise the profile of this place to an acceptable level, and one which has the necessary cross-market appeal in this area to survive.

And I would spend a LOT of time in the area checking out the other 4 pubs.....what are they doing...when are they busy....who are their customers.....which ones are failing and which are the victors, especially at weekends, etc. I looked into taking the Nottingham House recently, part of the same estate as the South Sea, but the figures just did not add up for what I wanted for a weekly turnover in this area.....

Of course, many a past its prime and down and out pub has been saved and made good again, sometimes against all odds, so its all pretty much an ongoing game in many ways. And to see a place like the South Sea made good and busy with the RIGHT sort of patrons would be amazing.......

I still remember sitting in there around early 1980 drinking Carling Black Label lager (URGHHH) and chatting with members from a little known Sheffield rock band who made it BIG TIME 4 years later.....LETS GET ROCKED!!!!!

dennis introduced me to guinness... what a top bloke he was!

heck of a nice bloke, wonder where he is now?

We used to run comedy there up until it brcame a scream, and it was always packed.

I have only ever been in this pub once and was not that impressed. I agree with the comments made by Ousetunes.
Decor inside and out needs an overhaul and cater for the locals (like me) as well as students (dont let them take over the South Sea as they have The Gridnstone).

exhausted, do you have any part time jobs? work full time during the day so looking for something one or two nights during the working week and one weekend every now and again?

I'd invest in a big blackboard or hoarding advertising your wares to stick on the frontage facing the main road. Thousands of drivers and bus passengers get stuck in the traffic queue there every day and gaze blankly at the South Sea as they're passing. Usually they're thinking 'bit rough, went in there once and haven't been back for years'. But if you were advertising something good (food, beer, music etc) and you seemed to be making an effort smartening it up then people might notice.

style 2007
there will be jobs available. watch this space.

The SOUTH SEA used to be an OK place in the early 80's, quite a mini rock pub in some ways as members of Def leppard were in there on a regular basis circa 79/80/81.....
I still remember sitting in there around early 1980 drinking Carling Black Label lager (URGHHH) and chatting with members from a little known Sheffield rock band who made it BIG TIME 4 years later.....LETS GET ROCKED!!!!!

It did used to have a wonderful jukebox as well as the best musicians hanging around in there! But in the latre 80's/early 90's the staff were always sulky and uninterested and you could wait an age for any food you ordered. I once had to ask for my money back because my lunchtime was finished and the food still hadn't arrived!

Only ever used to go in when they had the comedy on a Thursday. Other than that it gave the impression originally of being an estate pub, then it changed into a Scream pub for students which was even worse, so I'd walk straight past to the Tav or Fox and Duck.

Recently however the beer in the Tav is so bad (they used to serve a nice pint of Tetley's, don't know why they ruin it now) that if you had a decent pint on and it looked nicer I might be tempted in...

last laugh
Do you think there is any mileage in resurrecting the comedy club? I realise that it has moved on but there might be room for one more.

Hi exhausted.
I lived up the road in Tapton halls last year, so thought I'd offer a student perspective.
Basically, we only ever went into the South Seas on bar crawls etc. The staff do normally seem a bit down-and-out, and whilst the prices were always decent Scream pubs arent really the kind of thing most students are looking for. We always frequented the F&D, Tav or Notty, mainly because they were comfy, whereas the York & south seas were trying to seem cooler - even though the place was probably the coolest pub in the area last year. That said, we did go the York quite a bit because of a well advertised deal on burger, chips & a pint - £3 or something like that?
Deals like that - especially whilst sports are on - will get students in without fail if you advertise them properly. Like someone said, it'd probably be a good idea to advertise on the main road - all the other halls are in another direction so a lot of students wont know about the south seas. Also, I've noticed that the opening hours have been really irregular but I'm guessing a lot of that has to do with the takeover.
One other thing - I drop off the student unions newspaper around sheffield and got told to bugger off by you the other week! if you're not looking for a student client then fair enough but all the other pubs take them & students probably feel that bit comfier for it.
Anyway, good luck!

Egaoejeb
Hi
You defininaterly wasnt told to bugger off by me. I dont take over the lease until the 11th of April!!!!
Any form of student newspaper or advertising will be welcomed after that date.
Look forward to dealing with you then.

"The staff do normally seem a bit down-and-out" what the hell does that mean! ???????????

Yes. I would like to know what you mean by that as well

We have just been talking about re naming the South Sea after we take over and wondered what your views are? Is it a good idea? What should we call it?

The Minutes of the Licensing Board of 08 September 2005, in respect of the South Sea public house...

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/your-city-council/council-meetings/licensing-board-/agendas-2005/agenda-8-september-2005-pm/minutes-8th-september-2005

Scroll down under section 2 of the Minutes. It is the second case minuted.

After 9pm tonight my wife and I were the only customers. We go quite regularly for the £1 pint offer. No atmosphere but then again it is probably no worse than it was in the early 1990s when it really needed to be updated.

We have just been talking about re naming the South Sea after we take over and wondered what your views are? Is it a good idea? What should we call it?

Hadfield II:hihi:

Yes the SOUTH SEA is long outdated name associated with its past image. Time to move on I think........question is re-name it to what....difficult one........very tricky.....

On the other hand, ssome dynamic new signage and frontage changes may well breath life back into the old name.......I remember the original Tetley Inn sign for there, palm trees and a beach scene which was far better than the ghastly Scream pub signs..see if its lying around in the cellar.....

when I took the Dove and Rainbow I found the original 80's Whitbread pub sign......they never used to be collectable back then so may be around....

ousetunes
I like it. Don't think I will get away with it though!!!

Goldenfleece
You seem to know a lot about the South Sea. When was the last time you went in?
Do you do consultancy work?

Hi Thanx for all your comments we value your opinions and will certainly take on board what you have all said. We hope to re launch the South Sea in the very near future and hope to see you all there . Although we cant do everything at once I can assure you it will be a Cleaner , Friendlier more welcoming place with good quality food ' Drink and service.

Look forward to seeing you all.

Just meant that they seem a bit miserable, not that they're criminals or degenerates or anything! Sorry about that!

I go in the SS on occasion in my role as instructor of a uni club.
It's not our regular after session watering hole though, that's the F&D.
I've not noticed the staff being particularly bad, but it does always seem a little bit dim (poorly lit), and a bit big, a barn kinda feeling.
It has a slightly odd layout, with seating off to one side, but the bar and pool tables over to the other side. We normally end up standing around near the bar, whereas in the F&D we normally end up sat down, which I think most people prefer.
A better range of beers would be welcome, even students will try drinking real ales these days and it would make it stand out from the other pubs in broomhill.

If you're interested in sponsoring a club then give me a shout, we used to get sponsorship from the west end, so always went there for drinks after the session, we canned that after they got funny about serving someone a glass of water.

Cyclone
We are offering sponsership for teams. Call in and see us after the 11th.

Make sure there is at least one real ale on and look after it properly! Me and a lot of friends dont drink in 'smoothflow' pubs.

Goldenfleece
You seem to know a lot about the South Sea. When was the last time you went in?
Do you do consultancy work?

Well it was sort of my local at one point for about 10 years, on and off. First went in 1979, and many times after that throughout the 80's, until recently in last few years when it really started to go downhill. Not been in for about 5 months now, and last time was the LAST time in its present form....it was full of chavs with I WANT A FIGHT on their lips, baseball caps and tracky bottoms and girls with ENORMOUS gold ear rings and Nike trainers, and car loads of chavs revving up their clapped out smoky old white Vauxhall Nova with "BIG WHEELS" by the front door.......I rest my case.....

Yes I do do consultancy work........message me......

Hi exhausted, good luck with running the pub. :thumbsup:

I agree with Cyclone about the odd layout, very little seating for starters considering how big it is.
I'm not a great fan of those enormous settee type things, they take up masses of room, and you tend to be very far away from people across the table, so not good pubs for chatting when it's busy. (unless you're all standing)

I wouldn't change the name personally. Original pub names are better than silly names, and wouldn't affect trade IMO.

I like the pub, but when it's busy, it's very 'echo-y' and very loud (especially for people with fe*k*d up hearing like mine:hihi:

For anyone interested, this is how I would do it, and I am not saying I would take on the SS, but I would take into account the following very carefully:

HISTORY OF THE AREA: Broomhill has been a communal student area for several decades now, and has been able to support FIVE pubs continuously with no problems. A 6th pub, THE PLACE opened some years back because there was still sufficient demand to fuel its success, and student numbers in the area were increasing every year.

Broomhill is economically largely dependant on students.....look all all the shops and cafes and you will see where its economic roots are buried. Few other areas would be able to support SIX pubs all within a minutes walk of each other...without the student market, I estimate 3 would close. I think the 3 to survive would be FOX AND DUCK, THE PLACE, BROOMHILL TAVERN, and the other 3 would be lost, as they have the current weakest identity and patronage.

FACT: student halls of residence are being pulled down in the area and a new student village is being rebuilt. This wont be ready for 2 years so the student numbers in the area are drastically down from what they were a year ago, most students now living in town. Therefore the number of students out drinking in Broomhill has seen a dramatic fall this year while the new student village is constructed.

All pubs in the area have felt the downward turn in trade since the Summer of last year, and its this reason why THREE of them have been on the market in the last 7 months, South Seas, Notty house and the Tavern have all been up for sale/lease, for the first time in the history of Broomhill 3 pubs, or even TWO, at once. In the past, to find a pub available in Broomhill was a very very hard thing to do, the Fox and Duck for example has not changed hands since 1987. Now suddenly we have 3 been offered in a short space of time, it rings dramatic and loud alarm bells to me!!! What is happening in the area...where are all the customers going.......why 3 out of 6 pubs for sale???

OK, Broomhill is more than students, there is local trade from surrounding adjacent areas yes, but enough to fuel SIX PUBS??? I dont think so.....I can't see it happening when the 3 I think will survive have such strong identities and patronage that has been built up from local support, and increasingly now, less students.

HOWEVER.....all the pubs have one good thing going for them all, they all are fundamentally very different from each other. The Broomhill Tavern is 30 seconds walk from the Place, but a totally different clientele and offer..THE YORK is 100% different again to most of the others.......its not as if all are the same bland decor and clones of each other, they all have a unique quality. Therefore it IS possible for all 6 pubs to survive, but I do mean JUST SURVIVE!!!.....I think the days of licensed retail flourishment in this area are over, at least for a couple more years before all the students return. The potential to make a profitable pub business in Broomhill I would say is strictly limited at the present time, UNLESS it can do a U turn in its fortune...a 100% U TURN ALL THE WAY!!!!

For the SS to work, it needs to spend a lot of time examining the USP's of all five other pubs, and working on an offer that is UNIQUE to the area, as far as it can go. From my experience of Broomhill lately what it needs for one is a quality and very versatile real ale outlet, the days of great cask ale in the Notty are long gone, and the Fox and Duck dont offer very much either, although to be fair the Place has a few good ones from time to time. Maybe free wireless internet would work here....specialist events and themed nights..there are plenty of options I could think of.....

.and what I think Broomhill REALLY NEEDS is a good late weekend bar running to 3 am or more, but the chances of a premises licence change in this area are remote due to the local residents outfit, Broomhill Residents Association, who have a LOT OF POWER on the Council.

But even that concept of real ales, as 3 of the other 5 offer cask ale (Tavern inc), is not enough. The SS has been blighted by its chav image and clientele for the last few years, and shifting that image is a real tough job. To be fair if it was me I would be barring many of the existing customers straight away, introducing like we have at the Dove, a NO BASEBALL CAP NO TRACKSUIT policy, and sticking to it..RIGIDLY.....and its a former SCREAM pub....unfortunately former SCream pubs across the UK have a tough time re-branding themselves....I think the YORK will find it very very tough when it too loses its Scream badge (the word is Scream are pulling out of the area as its a now dated and declining student brand that is now largely patronised by chavs....check out the YORK patrons if you dont believe me!!!)

Whitbreads SCREAM concept was great at the time, and it became the leading student brand pub chain, but like the TUT N SHIVE chain before it, it grew outdated very quickly and lost its student brand status.

But then.......the offer in place has to compensate for the lost trade....and judging from the SS patrons last time I was there, I would bar 100% of them!!!

Just a few thoughts......its a tough economic position the SS is in, with declining students in the area, and its dodgy image. Its possible to make it the best pub in Broomhill, of course it is.....but you got to get it right and get it right FAST, because otherwise, and I wont beat about the bush, its the first permanent pub closure victim in Broomhill.

I have some ideas though....message me....

A friend of mine worked at Record Collector in Broomhill in the 80s and one day an American woman, who was a massive Def Leopard fan, came in on a pilgramage to visit all Joe Elliott's (the lead singer) old haunts.
My friend confirmed Joe Elliott used to buy records from Record Collector and took the woman to the South Seas which was one of Joe's regular drinking holes.
As the woman took-in the surroundings, Joe Elliott actually walked in and ordered a pint. The woman was visably trembling with excitement and too nervous to talk.. At that point Joe Elliott came over to them and said "Dunt thy work in Record Collector?"

A friend of mine worked at Record Collector in Broomhill in the 80s and one day an American woman, who was a massive Def Leopard fan, came in on a pilgramage to visit all Joe Elliott's (the lead singer) old haunts.
My friend confirmed Joe Elliott used to buy records from Record Collector and took the woman to the South Seas which was one of Joe's regular drinking holes.
As the woman took-in the surroundings, Joe Elliott actually walked in and ordered a pint. The woman was visably trembling with excitement and too nervous to talk.. At that point Joe Elliott came over to them and said "Dunt thy work in Record Collector?"

Yep Def leppard used to hang out in the SS a lot from 1978 to the late 80's....I have seen two of them in their over a dozen times..there was a metal plaqur on the wall behind the bar in the back room at one point as a tribute to Def Leppard...that vanished when it became a Scream house......do something with that ROCK HERITAGE maybe???? hey, have some great ideas now.....

Hi,

I agree with some of the things goldenfleece says, but not all of them.

The pubs are definitely quieter, and the Seas will need to find a way to make its mark.

Personally, I don't think wireless internet is such a good idea; laptops and booze, anyone?

And I don't think themed nights or special events are the way to go - they are exactly the type of thing that attracts students and the 'chav' type customers....not the locals in Broomhill - unless they are based around something a bit more grounded, like the folk nights that occasionally happen in the Fox.

The Place, Fox and Tavern are the strongest at present, but both the Place and the Tav have a lot of people who you don't tend to see elsewhere on Brommhill very often, so they may be a little atypical. But what all thre have had is good management. Also, of these, the Place seems to have dropped patronage numbers quite substantially too, especialy during the week.

I agree - and have also said - that offering different drinks would be a good starting point to differentiate the pub (once the awful decor is done away with!). A choice of different beers and lagers on draft to stand out from what is being offered elsewhere, which is just the run of the mill really.

But having good staff is also a key - they 'sell' your pub each time a customer approches the bar. Last Sunday night in Seas, a group of very normal lads came in just after 10PM, and had to wait a few minutes to get served because the staff weren't at the bar. Neither staff member was there. That would have lost my trade, I'd have gone elsewhere and given a different business my money. They also called last orders just after 10 past 10, and at half past the girl who was obviously in charge told her colleague to just give 5 minutes before telling people to drink up. Clearly these staff didn't care about the business, they're jjust clocking time and taking their pay.

However, I disagree with the idea that the Seas has been ruined by a 'chav' image; I think most people who drink on Broomhill just find it a boring pub now, because of the Scream/robo-factory/student idea that most of the students didn't even much care for......it just hasn't been a worthwhile place to go to reguarly.

The other thing too in promoting a new image. I've not heard anyone else on Broomhill even talk about this change; if the new management makes a positive start, welcoming customers and making an effort to let them know they are wanted and valued, the Seas can put up just as strong a fight as any other pub on the 'Hill.

Ade

However, I disagree with the idea that the Seas has been ruined by a 'chav' image; I think most people who drink on Broomhill just find it a boring pub now, because of the Scream/robo-factory/student idea that most of the students didn't even much care for......it just hasn't been a worthwhile place to go to reguarly.

The other thing too in promoting a new image. I've not heard anyone else on Broomhill even talk about this change; if the new management makes a positive start, welcoming customers and making an effort to let them know they are wanted and valued, the Seas can put up just as strong a fight as any other pub on the 'Hill.

Ade

good point...but it was a few months ago I was last there and then it WAS full of chavs.....could have changed a bit this year as I said my opinion is based on 5 months ago when I was last there.....

Its a hit and miss game this pub lark! Strong Management is ESSENTIAL, and equally as you say above, good staff, well trained and pleasant to customers with a caring attitude. However, generally, with the exception of the Notty and the York, good staff and strong management are already in evidence in the area in the 3 strongest pubs.

What the SS needs is something more.....something thats not been done before for a long time perhaps.....themed pubs led the way in the early 80's remember, perhaps its time for a comeback? Not another fake Irish pub, but something that makes a very bold statement, almost as bold as the SCREAM pubs when they first hit Broomhill back in the 90's.......they worked so well at the beginning as they were unique to the area......

I dont think the traditional concept of the "old local" will work, thats already covered by the Tavern and that works well. The SS is not a traditional pub, its a flat roofed modern building that cant emulate a traditional boozer. Its ripe for something very bold, brave and daring perhaps....

Ade
Thanks for your in put. You talk alot of sense and obviously frequent the pub and know it quite well. Its all systems go for the change over on the 11th April.(openning at 7.pm on the 12th) We realise that we have an uphill struggle particularly with the staff but I am a strong leader and licencee that has been in this business over 20 years and think I can make it work.
I know that 3 pubs in the area have changed hands in the last 9 months, this happens all over and I dont think it is cause for alarm in Broomhill. You have only got to look at the pubs in town and how often they change over to see that.
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of making it a more local feel with a different range of products to the norm and enough choices of cask ale that can be supported. Some times pubs stock too many cask ales and result in not serving any that are worth drinking because they dont have the turnover to support them.
Thanks again for your comments you have definately given me food for thought. Look forward to seeing all forum members then.

SNIP

I dont think the traditional concept of the "old local" will work, thats already covered by the Tavern and that works well. The SS is not a traditional pub, its a flat roofed modern building that cant emulate a traditional boozer. Its ripe for something very bold, brave and daring perhaps....

Hi,

Shape aside, the Seas was a real, traditional old local when it was very busy - but that is a while back. I remember the oversized fishtank! and two room design as working well. Maybe it can't go back to that style of pub - but maybe it can.

Allegiances change quickly, and though the pubs on Broomhill may complement one another by their number - making it an area to visit - they are still competing, and oddly enough, it's the Place that has all the Saturday lunch regulars that I remember being in the Seas or the York from my youth (well, at least those of them who are still alive!), not the longer running places.

I also think that another pub can thrive if it's well run.....I still go to Broomhill regularly, and know others who do too; maybe more people would go, and more regularly, if there was another venue worth popping into; sort of a mini-regeneration - it could be the catalyst that's needed.

Ade

p.s. will have to pop in the Dove soon - last time I was there, Elfin were playing :)

Ade
Thanks for your in put. You talk alot of sense and obviously frequent the pub and know it quite well. Its all systems go for the change over on the 11th April.(openning at 7.pm on the 12th) We realise that we have an uphill struggle particularly with the staff but I am a strong leader and licencee that has been in this business over 20 years and think I can make it work.
I know that 3 pubs in the area have changed hands in the last 9 months, this happens all over and I dont think it is cause for alarm in Broomhill. You have only got to look at the pubs in town and how often they change over to see that.
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of making it a more local feel with a different range of products to the norm and enough choices of cask ale that can be supported. Some times pubs stock too many cask ales and result in not serving any that are worth drinking because they dont have the turnover to support them.
Thanks again for your comments you have definately given me food for thought. Look forward to seeing all forum members then.

Hi,

Will definitely make a point of coming in that night to say hello - maybe we can get SF badges printed :) I hope my thoughts are of some use - obviously it's in my interest as a consumer to have a good source of product!

As for the staff - any you're inheriting - it could be that they aren't intrinsically bad/lazy/whatever, but just haven't had the leadership they need, and will respond positively for you.

See you soon!

Ade

As for themed or traditional, there is a half way mark.

My local is the Closed Shop on Commonside, and I find that the perfect pub. It's still traditional(ish)but has a modern feel, friendly and attracts all ages. Pool table, poker nights, quizes etc etc, but also good to go to and chat.

I go to Broomhill quite a lot but not been in SS for a while, I'll pop in and say hello and have a few next time I'm up.

was one of those pubs that everyone said they hated but always ended up in there for some reason on the way out down town..

locals on friday and satdi night crookes walkley etc.. youngsters crowds of 18 year olds binging with the odd **** talker proping up the bar.. students term time and weeknights.. sometimes fancy dress ruggers boys and all that biz doin the rowdy but harmless drinking games and getting dirty looks and drama from local thugs lol.. havn't really been for about 3 years or somethin now... bare hinnings took place there watch yer plummers ;)

Keep a careful eye on what the NOTTINGHAM HOUSE is doing as well.....or when they change hands anyway......dont want 2 pubs both having the same ideas and cancelling each other out.....

Dear All,

I have known [Tracy] only for about 7 months but in that time as the landlady of the Hadfield she has become a good freind.

As a locally self employed tiler and maintenance guy I work in and around the local area and had passed the Hadfield Pub [Barber Road, Commonside] on many occasions, one day I ventured in on a recce to see what it was like.

I was most impressed and in this house locals and students mix without any issues, they actually respect each other! Lets face it, the local community benefit from the students being here, income is brought into Sheffield that could go elsewhere, also this activity creates employment for Sheffielder's?

Of course with any vast influx of youngster's anywhere in the country there may be associated issues, behaviour, rubbish etc but also wherever members of our Armed forces are based brings similar problems?

Its about clear communication to people about what is and isn't acceptable, and believe you me Tracy has the Hadfield Pub running efficiently, its clean and the staff are a sheer delight, courteous well mannered and even humerous, this is, in part down to the training and morals of Tracy and everyone involved in the Hadfield.

The pool tables in the Pub are the best in the area by a country mile and the food is also of a high standard..

I suppose I have started in this vain to demonstrate the way that the 'South Sea' will be run..there will be changes, all for the better, people [staff] may find it difficult to deal with change, but clearly you the previous, current and potential customers desire these changes, therefore it has to HAPPEN.. & THEY WILL OCCUR..

It will be a clean, well furnished and more stylish place with standards and of course with standards come do's and dont's that we all have to abide by..in life there has to be someone in charge or anarchy and disorder prevail, that environment exists at the moment because no-one has had theto challenge unsavoury behaviour..Standby because those who try to blacken or tarnish the reputation of the 'venue' from now on will be subject to positive action in a polite manner!!

Please dont be stifled by what went before, to change the 'mindset' of the staff who stay may take a few weeks, in order for the reinforcement of the change, Tracy and her business partner 'Craig' need us all to forget what went before and help the 'South Sea' become a venue where all are welcome, not just students, and not only locals, it needs to be somewhere that all ages and genders feel welcome and relaxed.

Having spoke to both Tracy and Paul over the last month or so they have been itching to get started and have been very mindful of the changes required. They have listened to all of your feedback and are determined to set the record straight..

Thanks and Good Luck to everyone, Customers and Staff alike.

Dear All,

I have known [Tracy - Future Landlady] only for about 7 months but in that time as the landlady of the Hadfield she has become a good freind.

As a locally self employed tiler and maintenance guy I work in and around the local area and had passed the Hadfield Pub [Barber Road, Commonside] on many occasions, one day I ventured in on a recce to see what it was like.

I was most impressed and in this house locals and students mix without any issues, they actually respect each other! Lets face it, the local community benefit from the students being here, income is brought into Sheffield that could go elsewhere, also this activity creates employment for Sheffielder's?

Of course with any vast influx of youngster's anywhere in the country there may be associated issues, behaviour, rubbish etc but also wherever members of our Armed forces are based this brings similar problems?

Its about clear communication to people about what is and isn't acceptable, and believe you me Tracy has the Hadfield Pub running efficiently, its clean and the staff are a sheer delight, courteous well mannered and even humerous, this is, in part down to the training and morals of Tracy and everyone involved in the Hadfield.

The pool tables in the Pub are the best in the area by a country mile and the food is also of a high standard..

I suppose I have started in this vain to demonstrate the way that the 'South Sea' will be run..there will be changes, all for the better, people [staff] may find it difficult to deal with change, but clearly you the previous, current and potential customers desire these changes, therefore it has to HAPPEN.. & THEY WILL OCCUR..

It will be a clean, well furnished and more stylish place with standards and of course with standards come do's and dont's that we all have to abide by..in life there has to be someone in charge or anarchy and disorder prevail, that environment exists at the moment because no-one has had the 'moral courage' to challenge this unsavoury behaviour..Standby because those who try to blacken or tarnish the reputation of the 'venue' from now on will be subject to positive action in a polite manner - initially (ha, ha)!!

Please dont be stifled by what went before, to change the 'mindset' of those staff who stay may take a few weeks, in order for the reinforcement of the change, Tracy and her business partner 'Craig' need us all to forget what went before and help the 'South Sea' become a venue where all are welcome, not just students, and not only locals, it needs to be somewhere that all ages and genders feel welcome and relaxed.

Having spoke to both Tracy and Paul over the last month or so they have been itching to get started and have been very mindful of the changes required. They have listened to all of your feedback and are determined to set the record straight..

Thanks and Good Luck to everyone, Customers and Staff alike.


:thumbsup:

Save me a bar stool closest to the Cask ale handpulls!!:thumbsup:

Mark Harrop -

You and I must have rubbed shoulders at some point in the Hadfield (I am part-owner of HFS Bathroom Centre over the road).

I totally agree with your post. Although I don't personally know Tracy, I do know Paul from the Hadfield and it's clear that the pair have totally transformed the Hadfield from a rather pokey, smelly and dingy backstreet pub into a lively, friendly and hear this, value-for-money establishment.

They haven't done it overnight either which proves their plans were more long-term than short. I trust therefore that the South Sea (which needs to retain its name BTW) will improve over the next five years or so.

As you rightly claim, mixing locals and students can be a tricky task, yet the atmosphere in the Hadfield, particularly during live sports, is always non-threatening. (I've even taken student tenants in myself, this is testament that the place suits both parties.)

The Hadfield is bigger than it looks from the outside, has three pool tables and serves brilliant v-f-m food. The Carlsberg Export is super and there is always some live sport on the many screens. And despite this, it isn't like a sports mad place but just an inviting, lively place to go eat and drink.

A guest ale might be the only thing missing. The pub used to serve Youngers beers and occasionally Theakston Old Peculiar (but in its former 'grotty' days) but I shouldn't complain.

If the South Seas is to be run along similar lines then I predict two things:-

1) Broomhill will acquire a superbly run pub offering food most of the day at decent prices; &

2) The other pubs in the region will be given a much-needed kick up the backside because they're pretty much sad places as things stand.

Good luck Tracy and Paul (but ensure you stick around the Hadfield as long as you can!)


Dave - aka Ousetunes

Thanks for your comments. I was just starting to have the colly wobbles about starting another business venture but it has helped to steady my nerves.
We have been at the Hadfield for 10 years tommorrow and I believe the stability we have given this place is a factor in its success. We bought the lease from Punch 6 months ago after managing the place for all that time and found it difficult at first to adjust. Now we are settling down its time to buy another, hence the South Sea. It wont become a rip roaring success over night but we will give it 100%.
Thank you all for support.

Hi
Just wanted to let everyone know that we are now open at the The South Sea. Thank you to all of you for your comments and advice on this forum.Hope to see you all later.

Its hard for staff to stay motivated when the pub is deserted for 7 hours during the day, and then suddenly crammed full as a bar crawl comes through for 30 minutes before disappearing again. Also, as people have identifed, the previous clientel wasnt exactly perfect, leading to alot of abuse aimed at the staff.

I totally agree with what someone mentioned on page 1 or 2 about the feeling of being abbandoned. The scream company really has given the SS management a hard time. Ben done his best with a very bad situation, but overall this lack of avaliable training and company support will filter back to the staff.

Im a student myself (Not one of the crazy getting wasted sports teams members), I live in Broomhill and me and my housemates only discovered the pub a few months ago (1 1/2 years after living nearby!). The main problem i see, as both a customer and staff member really is advertising, people just dont know its there, or if they do are put off by the exteriour.

I expect Tracy and craig will address these and the staff issues, and I look forward to drinking/working with them. Best of luck.

Loose the half oildrum light fittings - I gashed my head open on one once

Hi,

Went in Friday, and although they know the work has only just started, the new colouring outside and in (unfinished I'm sure at the mo) is lighter and more welcoming. The staff working also seemed firendly and attentive.

Early days but a good start, and I'll probably pop in tonight for one too.

Whether it was the more inviting outside, or the knowledge that the pub has changed hands I don't know, but it was certainly a lot busier than I've seen it got a good while.

Ade

Digurunoff
The Half oil drum light fittings have already gone!!

Will be calling in soon for some fine ales......need to get a night off myself at some point.....running a bar is not conducive to having free time.....

Didn't know that you ran the Hadfield as well. The Hadfield's a really good student pub (although, not my kind of establishement). If you can keep the same kind of thing going from the Hadfield - nice decor, friendly staff, good prices, sport, events on certain nights and perhaps a non-sport area though I'm not really sure were it would go - I'm sure you'll do great, most of the pubs in Broomhill don't offer as much as the Hadfield does to Crookes.

Didn't know that you ran the Hadfield as well. The Hadfield's a really good student pub (although, not my kind of establishement). If you can keep the same kind of thing going from the Hadfield - nice decor, friendly staff, good prices, sport, events on certain nights and perhaps a non-sport area though I'm not really sure were it would go - I'm sure you'll do great, most of the pubs in Broomhill don't offer as much as the Hadfield does to Crookes.

Forget the Sport and big screen TV..everyone else does that and there are a LOT of people who really hate watching football when they just want a drink and a chat..too many pubs try and cater for the 'sport' crowd, and its not really practical to put on the same 'offer' as everyone else. A sport and TV free pub would be fab in Broomhill..the Seas has never been sporty like the Fox and Duck or Nottingham House

Forget the Sport and big screen TV..everyone else does that and there are a LOT of people who really hate watching football when they just want a drink and a chat..too many pubs try and cater for the 'sport' crowd, and its not really practical to put on the same 'offer' as everyone else. A sport and TV free pub would be fab in Broomhill..the Seas has never been sporty like the Fox and Duck or Nottingham House

Hi,

I remember not so many years back when the SS was THE place on Broomhill for football - the atmosphere for England matches especially was exceptional.

Not catering for sports fans simply means the customers' money goes elsewhere.

Ade

Hi,

I remember not so many years back when the SS was THE place on Broomhill for football - the atmosphere for England matches especially was exceptional.

Not catering for sports fans simply means the customers' money goes elsewhere.

Ade

My point is that not EVERYONE is a sports fan..I know loads of pople who hate sport on TV and wont go into a pub that has big screen footie on..no one seems to cater for this market in broomhill, Fox and Duck has a massive screen and so does The Place, etc so whats the point in duplicating it? best to create a sport free pub and create a unique selling point that way..seriously, many students and drinkers in Broomhill are not interested in sport..especially women. How many times have I seen groups of girls walk into the Fox and Duck to be swamped with football on Tv and noisy male sport types, and who have turned round and walked out in disgust..

On the sports theme..Im Landlord of Devonshire Ecclesall Rd (just past Shell opp Old Brewery) and we have no tv!
So if you dont fancy Nursery, Varsity or Pomona on match days/nights why not walk 5 mins down the road and give us a try! There might even be somewhere to sit and hear each other talk!
For Ale drinkers we currently have on Black Sheep, Bradfield Farmers Bitter and Wentworth Bumble Beer.

My point is that not EVERYONE is a sports fan..I know loads of pople who hate sport on TV and wont go into a pub that has big screen footie on..no one seems to cater for this market in broomhill, Fox and Duck has a massive screen and so does The Place, etc so whats the point in duplicating it? best to create a sport free pub and create a unique selling point that way..seriously, many students and drinkers in Broomhill are not interested in sport..especially women. How many times have I seen groups of girls walk into the Fox and Duck to be swamped with football on Tv and noisy male sport types, and who have turned round and walked out in disgust..

Hi,

Not everyone is a sports fan, I agree..but you have a lot of students who do like sports, and lots of non-students too. Now, most of the Broomhill pubs aren't particularly noisy when sport is on, only for the internationals really.

And though I can sympathise with those who don't like to watch the sports, it isn't very often when it's an issue for those who don't like it..and in all honesty, if I was the person trying to make a living from a pub, I'd rather have the blokes in spending money on beer than a group of girls who'll spend less in all likelihood.

It would be ideal if you could cater for all - but if you can't, and you're running a business, it's only sensible to go for the bigger share of the market.

Ade

There's plenty of blokes who don't like sport (in a pub anyway).
If the sport is on when we arrive somewhere after training we often go elsewhere so that we can find a seat and not have to listen to cheering everytime some fool manages to kick a ball.

There's plenty of blokes who don't like sport (in a pub anyway).
If the sport is on when we arrive somewhere after training we often go elsewhere so that we can find a seat and not have to listen to cheering everytime some fool manages to kick a ball.

I agree, I hate going to a pub with friends when matches are on the big screen and you get big groups of lagered up lads yelling abuse at the referee and being excessively noisy..we just walk out and take our custom somewhere else, as do most people that are not bothered about sport..

While the business argument is certainly there, when you have 6 pubs in Broomhill, 5 of which already cater for the sport crowd, you really want something a bit different for those MANY non sport fans..and there are MANY of us I promise you that..and we spend just as much money and we are NOT a minority!!

we are usually not noticed as much as we dont gather in herds in front of TV screens, clutching pints of Stella, wearing England or some other football colours, and uttering verbal abuse at flickering images on a screen, or drink ourselves into oblivion before herding into Balti King to be sick on the tablecloth!

We are not usually noticed as we tend to be well behaved, engage in intelligent conversation amongst ourselves about non sport subjects, and tend not to bellow indiscriminate verbal expressions at other people in a loud and intimidating manner..but yet we spend just as much money, but in a more pleasant way, and generally do not all herd into Balti king shouting obscenities at the staff, and we also refrain from being sick on the tableclothes!

Golden Fleece
You seem to have a very negative view of people that enjoy football and other sports. I recognise your opinion but wish to differ. I have run The Hadfield for over 10 years now and sport is a very big part of our pub but it is promoted in a very sensible way. I do not allow people to get out of hand, being abusive and annoying others. The trick is to be present in your pub when these sporting events are on and creating clear guidelines to customers and staff as to what you will accept. It all boils down to experience. Something that I have plenty of.
Not having a TV in your pub in the heart of Broomhill would be business suicide and Im not ready to die yet.
Just to settle another myth, we have NOT sponsered the hockey team.
Cheers

Does that mean that you got my PM?

Golden Fleece
You seem to have a very negative view of people that enjoy football and other sports. I recognise your opinion but wish to differ. I have run The Hadfield for over 10 years now and sport is a very big part of our pub but it is promoted in a very sensible way. I do not allow people to get out of hand, being abusive and annoying others. The trick is to be present in your pub when these sporting events are on and creating clear guidelines to customers and staff as to what you will accept. It all boils down to experience. Something that I have plenty of.
Not having a TV in your pub in the heart of Broomhill would be business suicide and Im not ready to die yet.
Just to settle another myth, we have NOT sponsered the hockey team.
Cheers

Negative opinion based on lots of pubs (not the Hadfield) that just open the doors and let herds of idiots in..most are like that.

Yes, some pubs are VERY big on sport I agree, but I am just saying that not ALL should be the same. I think a pub in Broomhill with no big screen or sports channel would be a welcome change, and far from being business suicide, would create a very wide market appeal. Not questioning your experience in any way..

To suggest that everyone in Broomhill wants to watch TV in a pub is rather a sweeping statement though, and the other five pubs already provide sport on TV, so the opportunity to create a unique selling point in this area is very obvious to me..you dont just tap into existing markets, you CREATE new ones..I've been involved in marketing and promotions for 20 years now and my experience tells me the opposite to you, that in a densely populated area like this with 6 pubs all on top of each other, its imperative to create a fresh identity and offer something that the others don't offer, and not just to duplicate their target markets.

Then again,. its your pub, I am simply making observations, and I am sure lots of people here would welcome something a bit different and sport free in the area. Broomhill is a very vibrant community, full of students and locals in a good mix, and whom I am sure would embrace a slightly different offer from licensed premises other than the standard big screen footie.

Cyclone
I got your PM and tried to reply but your mail box is full.

I agree, I hate going to a pub with friends when matches are on the big screen and you get big groups of lagered up lads yelling abuse at the referee and being excessively noisy..we just walk out and take our custom somewhere else, as do most people that are not bothered about sport..

While the business argument is certainly there, when you have 6 pubs in Broomhill, 5 of which already cater for the sport crowd, you really want something a bit different for those MANY non sport fans..and there are MANY of us I promise you that..and we spend just as much money and we are NOT a minority!!

we are usually not noticed as much as we dont gather in herds in front of TV screens, clutching pints of Stella, wearing England or some other football colours, and uttering verbal abuse at flickering images on a screen, or drink ourselves into oblivion before herding into Balti King to be sick on the tablecloth!

We are not usually noticed as we tend to be well behaved, engage in intelligent conversation amongst ourselves about non sport subjects, and tend not to bellow indiscriminate verbal expressions at other people in a loud and intimidating manner..but yet we spend just as much money, but in a more pleasant way, and generally do not all herd into Balti king shouting obscenities at the staff, and we also refrain from being sick on the tableclothes!


So, by some unexplained reasoning, you spend as much - presumably on alcohol - but you and your friends are more intelligent than those who like sports? And don't suffer the same levels of alcoholic intoxication?

You also manage to label anyone who likes to go out and watch the football with a pint as social inadequates. Read it, because that's what you're saying. But what you actually do is label yourself as a snob - an anti-sports snob. You try to brand others, but all you do is mark yourself out as intolerant and with a superior attitude - and a completely unfounded superior attitude.

Hey, if you don't like going to a pub where football is on, don't go; or maybe write and ask the landlords if they'd rather not present something their customers want to accomodate you?

From Broomhill, it's easy - go to West 10 at Ranmoor, no big deal if you don't want to watch football when it's on.

Also, 5 of the 6 Broomhill pubs don't cater for the sport crowd, as the York is deffo just a student pub and doesn't make any effort to attract a non-student crowd in the evenings or weekends. If you're going to quote facts and figures, try to get them right. The Notty also isn't popular in any sense, and the Tav shows games but is such an awkward shape that no-one deliberately goes there to watch sports. So it's the Fox and the Place..that's 2 out of 6.

When it comes to the business side, you are being either a jerk, or deliberately obtuse; or are you suggesting that, come next summer, you'll offer to compensate the SS for the lost earnings if they chose not to show England matches? Because you are basically telling them not to show the European Championships then - and presumably World Cup matches in future. At a conservative estimate, if they attract 75 extra customers per England game, selling each 4 pints, that would be around £750 per night..and that's being conservative.

Plus all the income they can generate on a more irregular basis by showing football - which doesn't have to be noisy (you certainly can't hear much from the matches normally shown in the Place or the Fox)..and this can mean the difference between the casual drinker choosing to go to the SS or elsewhere..just in case someone who doesn't like sport happens to be out??

Last time I went to watch football in a pub on an afternoon, I went with my wife, a friend, my nephew and his wife. We ate out and had a few drinks. We weren't drunk, violent, abusive or sick. You're telling the SS not to cater for us, because it's better to cater for people who will spend less and tell themselves they're better. Read your post, because that's what you're saying

Ade

Cyclone
I got your PM and tried to reply but your mail box is full.

Okay, i've deleted a few old ones now, hope you didn't spend too long typing a reply, it's annoying when you can't send them.

Ade
I couldnt agree more!!

When it comes to the business side, you are being either a jerk, or deliberately obtuse;

Last time I went to watch football in a pub on an afternoon, I went with my wife, a friend, my nephew and his wife. We ate out and had a few drinks. We weren't drunk, violent, abusive or sick. You're telling the SS not to cater for us, because it's better to cater for people who will spend less and tell themselves they're better. Read your post, because that's what you're saying

Ade

actually your reaction is way over the top and makes you look rather stupid..you read what I am saying ..its simply my opinion and it works for me. I am not saying ALL sports fans are drunken buffoons, its just my experience..yours is obviously different so what are getting so excited about?
And its nothing to do with snobbery..its suggesting that Broomhill needs something a bit different..so whats wrong with that, you seem to have taken it personally

and to suggest non sports fans spend less demonstrates how little you know about such people..try doing some research yourself..

Mod note: Can we ask for a little civility please? It's against forum rules to insult other forum users, and posts containing insults are likely to disappear, even if the post is otherwise thought provoking and well written. It would be a shame to have to close the debate for petty squabbling.