Does anyone know why the fastest train from Sheffield to London takes 2hrs 11mins, nine minutes longer than the fastest Leeds to London train which takes 2hrs 02mins yet is 36 miles further away from London than Sheffield!

One more better service Leeds has over Sheffield when it shouldn't!:rant:

I thought the Leeds train went through Sheffield ?

No it's an Arriva one which arrives in London's King Cross Station rather than St Pancras.

Right, so it uses the same line as the Doncaster electric train.
I think the line is much straighter so the trains can go faster.

It's to do with the lines out of Sheffield not being electrified, afaik.

The GNER trains from Leeds to London Kings Cross use the East Coast Mainline via Doncaster and Peterborough, which is a much straighter and higher speed route. The track was upgraded and electrified in the late 80s, and much of the route allows trains to run at 125mph.

The Midland Mainline route from Sheffield, whilst the trains are capable of doing that speed, the speed limit on the route is lower, with the highest speed allowed being 110mph, with a lot of sections lower than that. This is mainly due to the geography of the route - lots of bends.

I would also add though that the timetable from Sheffield is probably a bit more realistic - Midland Mainline currently achieve a punctuality score of around 91%, whereas GNER score is around 82%.

Originally posted by Andy C
I would also add though that the timetable from Sheffield is probably a bit more realistic - Midland Mainline currently achieve a punctuality score of around 91%, whereas GNER score is around 82%.
Nicely said.
Midland Mainline has very effective posters around Sheffield ;)
It beeing the better improved Train Operating Company in the UK last year.

It is also important to say that operating companies decide nothing. Midland Mainline doesn't choose its trains, timetable, prices...
The late SRA decides everything, apart from the colour of the train that is which is at National Express' discretion in this case.

If you'r cheesed off by the time a trian travels, go complain to the SRa, not the TOC ;)

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
No it's an Arriva one which arrives in London's King Cross Station rather than St Pancras.

Sureley it's a GNER. I've just got visions of an Arriva 2 car set trundling down the up fast through Doncaster and Peterborough and sending the entire network into chaos! A bit like the gits who do 20mph across the snake pass coz they can't find 'full beam' when it's dark. Grrrrr.

Originally posted by Andy C
Midland Mainline currently achieve a punctuality score of around 91%, whereas GNER score is around 82%.

I'm sure that this has only improved as a result of extended train times. I'm positive that there used to be one that took less than 2hours in the morning rush??

Originally posted by Strix
Sureley it's a GNER. I've just got visions of an Arriva 2 car set trundling down the up fast through Doncaster and Peterborough and sending the entire network into chaos! A bit like the gits who do 20mph across the snake pass coz they can't find 'full beam' when it's dark. Grrrrr.

That's almost inspired me to set up a new venture, Megatrain.com, based on the megabus concept. It would see a basic no-frills service from Sheffield to London using Pacer railbus units, with mandatory reservations which must be made online, and tickets starting at £5 return!

Originally posted by richynomates
I'm sure that this has only improved as a result of extended train times. I'm positive that there used to be one that took less than 2hours in the morning rush?? Well spotted. That's also why trains are no longer 'late' on Sundays. How did stats become more important than getting passengers from A to B?

Originally posted by richynomates
I'm sure that this has only improved as a result of extended train times. I'm positive that there used to be one that took less than 2hours in the morning rush??

Yes - the Master Cutler (0727 Sheffield to London) used to be 1hr59 mins, however it was a push to achieve that and often arrived in London 10 minutes late, so now the timetable is more realistic and shows it taking 10 minutes longer.

Originally posted by richynomates
I'm sure that this has only improved as a result of extended train times. I'm positive that there used to be one that took less than 2hours in the morning rush?? .

There are other factors - Midland Mainline now has no temporary speed restrictions on the route whearas GNER's East Coast route has a few - this is partly due to more engineering work being allowed to take place evenings and Sundays to keep the track in good condition. This may mean less competitive journey times on Sundays but it means a more reliable service.

I think you'll find one of the reasons why the East Coast Line (Leeds - Doncaster - Kings Cross) is quicker is because it routes through Lincolnshire and Cambridgeshire. Whereas the Sheffield Midlands line goes through Derbyshire; Nottinghamshire & Leicestershire.

So what? you may say. Well for those of us old enough to remember Britain having a coal industry, the Midlands route covers one of the largest chains of coal fields, which is liable to subsidence. The Coalfields south of Doncaster pretty much finish by the time you get to Retford.

regards

Mark

Think you'll find the fens produce their own form of subsidence :nono: . The east coast upgrade and the geography play the bigger part. Mr Strix says 'East Coast Rules!' but he would say that having relayed so much of it!:thumbsup: