mornin all, i was watching crufts last night when they said that after april it is illegal to dock your dogs tail. having owned rottweilers for tears i find it horribly unfair, i am probably being selfish but i just cannot picture a rottweiler with a tail.... whats your veiws on it all???

mornin all, i was watching crufts last night when they said that after april it is illegal to dock your dogs tail. having owned rottweilers for tears i find it horribly unfair, i am probably being selfish but i just cannot picture a rottweiler with a tail.... whats your veiws on it all???

Give it a few years and we will all get used to dogs with long tails and won't care anymore. I have seen this terrible practice carried out many times when I was younger (on boxers) and can honestly say that I don't think the puppies even notice let alone feel any pain.

morning again kev, when my rotti had pups they were all docked, you are right in saying that they hardly notice and after a few days the fur had grown back, no against any dog with a tail but it must look strange, i have never seen a rotti with one, omg, looks like were getting along this mornin kev:hihi:

why would you mutilate your pets anyway?

why would you find it horribly unfair that you won't be allowed to mutilate your future pets?

to be honest babychickens, i dont see docking as a mutilation and after keeping dogs for the last 20 years i have found that docking in some breeds actually is beeter off, especially in the working types, it streamlines them, and judging by the size of my rottie i would dread to think what she would do with a tail, she is clumsy enough at the best of times without having a great big tail to knock everything over with:hihi:

Just my two pence worth here but i dont like the idea of cutting off a dogs tail as you like the look.
You either like a breed or you dont, you want something to modify to how you like it then buy a car and pop down to Halfords:thumbsup:
I admit though i do get annoyed when my dog knocks things over with his tail but that may just be jeleousy on my part:blush: :help: :blush:

i've kept cocker spaniels for years and bred them.
the original rescued dogs we had were all docked - because show standards designated they should be.
show standards are based on the origination of the breed purpose imho. so if in the onset, a dog was found to perform better in certain circumstances without a tail the "trait" was continued. i hate to think how why they decided to try this in the first place, could have been injured dogs i s'pose.

so i understand how breed standards work but the actual requirement for the dogs to behave in the manner of the breed originators is minimal.
how many of ous have pedigree dogs that do the job they were bred for?

so ultimately all our home bred dogs have tails and although i have vowed never to have another dog - i would prefer them as God intended with tails.

take your point daddy, but tail docking has been around for years and years, just wondered wether the new ban will have an effect on certain breeds cos i for one will not breed a rottweiler again.... just my opinion:)

im glad there banning this barbaric practice, why should we mutilate an animal "bcause it looks better" or "because it might know something over", no design is perfect us included but we don't cut off parts of our body cos they don't look nice.

im glad there banning this barbaric practice, why should we mutilate an animal "bcause it looks better" or "because it might know something over", no design is perfect us included but we don't cut off parts of our body cos they don't look nice.

Well said. :thumbsup:

I don't agree with docking, when I got my cocker I got one with a tail cos I see docking as barbaric and unnecessary

im glad there banning this barbaric practice, why should we mutilate an animal "bcause it looks better" or "because it might know something over", no design is perfect us included but we don't cut off parts of our body cos they don't look nice.

Unless your Michael Jackson of course:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

I think it is barbaric mutilation, how would a person feel if they had an arm lopped off at bith just because someone a few years ago started it as a trend to look good ??????

I think it is barbaric mutilation, how would a person feel if they had an arm lopped off at bith just because someone a few years ago started it as a trend to look good ??????

Actually there are large numbers of boys who have bits of their "tails" lopped off because the victorians thought playing with yourself caused blindness and desert dwellers thought you get sand in it.

norbert, as my dog is of good pedigree standard, ie her kennel club lines are immaculate, i had a list of people waiting for them, she has been bred twice now and that is her limit, she will not be done agqin, i am not a back street dealer and i completly agree with you about the kennels but some people like a certain type of breed so go to a breeders

Actually there are large numbers of boys who have bits of their "tails" lopped off because the victorians thought playing with yourself caused blindness and desert dwellers thought you get sand in it.

it doesn't make it any less vile

How would all the men feel if we was to dock there tails lol charlie x

to be honest babychickens, i dont see docking as a mutilation and after keeping dogs for the last 20 years i have found that docking in some breeds actually is beeter off, especially in the working types, it streamlines them, and judging by the size of my rottie i would dread to think what she would do with a tail, she is clumsy enough at the best of times without having a great big tail to knock everything over with:hihi:


The excuse of docking tails in 'working type' dogs is absolute rubbish. Very few of these dogs are actually kept as working animals. They are kept as show dogs and therefore their tails are removed for aesthetic purposes. Docking is a purely selfish and draconian practice.

I think that tail docking for anything other than true medical reasons is as outdated and barbaric as having their ears trimmed so that they stand up, or having claws removed in cats to prevent them damaging furniture.

Thankfully ear trimming for cosmetic reasons and declawing have been illegal here for quite a while- and I welcome the same for cosmetic docking.

I can see no reason to dock tails, even in so called working breeds lets be honest most of them do not work they are more often kept as pets.
As for the dog not noticing well i would notice i'm sure if someone decided to lop off the end bit of my spine, and of course it must hurt how can it not? it hurts if you cut a finger nail to short let alone something like that.
Mutilation in the name of fashion is all it is, if you don't like the natural look of the dog (or the lengh of its tail) choose a different type.

ok. how many of these people who are againct docking have actually owned a dog with a docked tail. be honest, if you bought a rottweiler would you be concerned as to wether it had had its tail done. i think not

I personally love to see the traditionally docked breeds, with full tails. And rotties look amazing!

They stated last night on Crufts that the tail docking was one way of getting out of paying tax for the dog!!

IMO, if your dog is to be a fully working dog where the risk of catching and injuring the tail is high, then I agree with docking.

However, when breeders and exhibitors were asked, breeders were prepared to stop breeding and showing their chosen breed if they couldn't dock - because they didn't 'look right'. :loopy:
If I see a dally without spots - to me, it's still a dally, still has the characteristics and breed traits of the dally so why on Earth would you love it any less?!?!

I don't agree with docking for cosmetic reasons, imo it's unnecessary, and although some will disagree, it's been proven to cause communication problems between dogs.

However, nobody really needs to worry anyway because the spokeswoman for the KC told the whole nation that the KC would not be policing the ban anyway (and nor would anyone ese) so dogs docked after April will still be shown without consequences.

ok. how many of these people who are againct docking have actually owned a dog with a docked tail. be honest, if you bought a rottweiler would you be concerned as to wether it had had its tail done. i think not

No - I have never owned a docked breed
Yes - whether or not a dog had a tail would affect my decision to buy it

my rotty has got his tail docked but only because it had already been done when we got him. I wouldnt have had it done given the choice. I couldnt imagine him now with a tail but I would deffinatly have got used to it and not think he looks funny if he had one.
theres a rotty a few houses down with a tail, he only looked funny the first time i saw him after that he just looked normal.

as docking serves no actual purpose i dont see the point of it.

I know if a vet,who even if tail docking is banned..WILL still dock tails for a certain fee...

But dont even pm me for the details as..i wont give it out...


jt

I think it is barbaric mutilation, how would a person feel if they had an arm lopped off at bith just because someone a few years ago started it as a trend to look good ??????


A bit like circumsision (sp) really.

Am I wrong in thinking it's not actually illegal to dock these breeds, working dogs can still have their tails docked, I thought it was just that you couldn't show a docked breed.
Therefore, the vets will still do it.

Personally, I'd rather vets continued to do it - this isn't going to be policed by anyone, so people will keep docked dogs. It's so much better that a vet does it than a breeder who's not qualified to do so as I have been told many times before that it doesn't hurt when done by a professional vet properly but can cause a lot of distress if done by inexperienced individuals.

ok. how many of these people who are againct docking have actually owned a dog with a docked tail. be honest, if you bought a rottweiler would you be concerned as to wether it had had its tail done. i think not

i've had 4 cockers, only one was a true working dog, that were docked.
i currently have three, one we bred(close friends and family have the other 3 from the litter) all have tails.

homing more cockers wouldn't matter to me if they had or didn't have tails.
although for emotional reasons i can't face having any more dogs.
the OH however is insisting on a puppy boxer when her dogs pass away - as yet i haven't seen one with a tail.

A dog's genetics determine the features they have: fur length, face shape, ear characteristics, short or long tail etc etc. Why should an artificially-imposed cosmetic standard, which involves mutilation of the dog, supersede its genetically-determined appearance?

Out of interest, which breeds of dog have their tails docked for working reasons as opposed to being in accordance with the 'breed standards'? Are there instances of working dogs whose tails are docked contrary to the breed standard regulations (ie who would appear in Crufts with a long tail)?

A dog's genetics determine the features they have: fur length, face shape, ear characteristics, short or long tail etc etc. Why should an artificially imposed cosmetic standard, which involves mutilation of the dog, supersede its genetically-determined appearance?

Out of interest, which breeds of dog have their tails docked for working reasons as opposed to being in accordance with the 'breed standards'? Are there instances of working dogs whose tails are docked contrary to the breed standard regulations (ie who would appear in Crufts with a long tail)?

"working reasons " is difficult to specify. certain guard dogs are docked - boxer,rotties but GSD and weimerarners aren't.
any dog that used to be used for fighting - would have been docked to prevent the vcitm fighting back and grabbing a tail.

cockers are docked but springers aren't - although they are gundogs the habitat they work in does differ - hence the difference in dog size.
jack russells have tails - so they could be extricated from the rabbit holes if they got trapped.

I used to work in a kennels that rescued rotties, and one of the ones that came in had a full tail (perhaps she had been overlooked in the puppy farm or something, or abandoned before it was done, I don't know).
I thought she looked fantastic! A long strong tail with some feather, and was very expressive with it.
I have however met some dogs that damaged their tails through knocking them on walls and things (lurcher/greyhound types and Irish Wolfhounds) mainly - so do believe some surgical docking has it's place if necessary. But not in puppyhood.

"working reasons " is difficult to specify. certain guard dogs are docked - boxer,rotties but GSD and weimerarners aren't.
any dog that used to be used for fighting - would have been docked to prevent the vcitm fighting back and grabbing a tail.

cockers are docked but springers aren't - although they are gundogs the habitat they work in does differ - hence the difference in dog size.
jack russells have tails - so they could be extricated from the rabbit holes if they got trapped.
Thanks for that information. Are individual 'working breed' dogs routinely docked, even if the specific animal will not actually carry out the work its breed is traditionally associated with?

EDIT: Re. The guard dogs. Alsations/German Shepherds are often guard dogs and yet are not docked. Is there a reason for this exception?

Can I just say years ago when we used to breed GSDs,
We had a puppy born without a tail well she had a little stump and looked like she'd been docked, obviously no one wanted to buy her because GSDs should have tails, the owner of the stud dog a very reputable breeder, so I thought told us to have her put to sleep,as she wasn't breed standard and he didn't want to get a bad name for his stud dog.

So we kept her,and she was a beautiful dog and true GSD in every other way but everywhere she went people would stare at her,
You cant have a GSD without a tail, thwey would say
Pefectly normal to see other dogs without a tail though
she didn't have a tail because she wasn't born with one,,
but I cant understand the need to chop off a perfectly healthy dogs tail for any other reason than pure cosmetic.

Thanks for that information. Are individual 'working breed' dogs routinely docked, even if the specific animal will not actually carry out the work its breed is traditionally associated with?

EDIT: Re. The guard dogs. Alsations/German Shepherds are often guard dogs and yet are not docked. Is there a reason for this exception?

i think(which can be difficult) GSD's are left 'cos of their coat even alsations are furry compared to Boxers. some of the exceptions are due to nation of origin as well i think - Alsace,Newfoundland ,Labrador
in my limited experience i have only ever known dogs be docked by breeders "to attain" breed standard ready for puppy sales and registering.
i only know one person who had a dog that was "fit for purpose" i.e he had it for working and that was a lurcher for chasing vermin on farms whilst they carried out a cull.

Can I just say years ago when we used to breed GSDs,
We had a puppy born without a tail well she had a little stump and looked like she'd been docked, obviously no one wanted to buy her because GSDs should have tails, the owner of the stud dog a very reputable breeder, so I thought told us to have her put to sleep,as she wasn't breed standard and he didn't want to get a bad name for his stud dog.

same as some boxer breeders - drowning/killing white pups 'cos they weren't accepted.
a large percentage of certain breed characteristics are causd by mistakes originally.
lemon and chocolate cockers are by products of breeding and are now gaining popularity.

GSDs were bred to guard sheep from animals moreso than thieves, whilst dobes for instance are traditionally docked because they would be guarding humans from people more than anything else and their tails (and ears) were easy handles
so they were docked and cropped.

Weimaraners are docked traditionally, and are beautiful with their full tails.

I have seen boxers with full tails and they look great, I'm not saying they look any happier, because docked dogs are happy, but there is a lot of expression in a dog's tail.

Personally, I think if you don't want a dog that is going to cause damage if it knocks something with it's tail, then you don't get a large dog with a large tail.
My dallies have very expressive tails and dallies have been known to wipe a coffee table clear, and cause bad bruising on an owners leg due to their whippy tails, however I wouldn't have it chopped off to prevent damage to my home :loopy:

My dallies have very expressive tails and dallies have been known to wipe a coffee table clear, and cause bad bruising on an owners leg due to their whippy tails, however I wouldn't have it chopped off to prevent damage to my home :loopy:

i know that feeling my daughters just got a lurcher(same size as a dallie) with a tail like a bull whip.
even the other dogs move when she starts getting excited.

Boxer with tail: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41147000/jpg/_41147490_boxerwithtail203emmamilne.jpg

Rottie with tail :love: : http://www.kateconnick.com/postcards/rotstand.jpg

weimaraner with docked tail: http://www.dogbiz.com/dogs-grp1/weimaraner/images/weim-280x240-shd-tig.gif

weimaraner with undocked tail: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Weimaraner_Amigo.jpg/180px-Weimaraner_Amigo.jpg

Can't find a blinkin' dobie with a full tail!

People seem a bit muddled in England some working Breeds will be able to be docked but ONLY if there is proof that they are working usually Gun Dogs.

In terms of the vet who will still dock for a fee he will be struck off the register of vets when disoverd and as the police will want to know why a dog not allowed to be docked has been, that will happen.

Personally I can see no reason why owners preference gives us the right to mutilate our pets!

i know that feeling my daughters just got a lurcher(same size as a dallie) with a tail like a bull whip.
even the other dogs move when she starts getting excited.

LOL - My youngest stands behind my eldest with one eye closed getting smacked in the face with his tail! Nobody stands behind her though!

Boxer with tail: http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41147000/jpg/_41147490_boxerwithtail203emmamilne.jpg

Rottie with tail :love: : http://www.kateconnick.com/postcards/rotstand.jpg

weimaraner with docked tail: http://www.dogbiz.com/dogs-grp1/weimaraner/images/weim-280x240-shd-tig.gif

weimaraner with undocked tail: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Weimaraner_Amigo.jpg/180px-Weimaraner_Amigo.jpg

Can't find a blinkin' dobie with a full tail!


i have seen all these dogs before with tails and i must say i find them less intimidating when they have tails!!!

For me when they have tails i see them as a family pet, without they are working dogs and you never know what they are used for!

People seem a bit muddled in England some working Breeds will be able to be docked but ONLY if there is proof that they are working usually Gun Dogs.

In terms of the vet who will still dock for a fee he will be struck off the register of vets when disoverd and as the police will want to know why a dog not allowed to be docked has been, that will happen.

Personally I can see no reason why owners preference gives us the right to mutilate our pets!


The spokeswoman from the KC on Crufts last night said the new legislation would be too difficult to police and therefore it won't be.
She said it's more of a 'recommendation'.

I am still confused as to the exact rules though so am not claiming to know anything! Just going by what's been said!

i have seen all these dogs before with tails and i must say i find them less intimidating when they have tails!!!

For me when they have tails i see them as a family pet, without they are working dogs and you never know what they are used for!

It's very natural for humans to find fully tailed dogs less intimidating. My oldest dog wags his tail even when he's in a bad mood, but he wags it very differently to when he's happy.

I wouldn't be able to see the difference between these two wags as easily if he only had a stump because the difference is in the end of his tail.

Dogs will wag their tail but keep the end still when threatened, or threatening, whilst their full tail will wag when they are being friendly or are contented (as a rule - all dogs are different) so it's natural for humans (and some dogs) to be not so sure about a docked tail.

She said the kennel club would not 'police' the issue in terms of showing dogs, that is different to the police themselves, my pint was really that I doubt a vet would want to end their carer by illegally docking a dog when there is a risk of being caught

I'm quite happy for docking to become restricted to actual working dogs only, but.....

In some countries on the continent, a dog cannot become a full champ if it isn't also a field champ (something I'd like to see in this country, having seen the diversion between hunting and show beagles since the forties), and this new ruling by crufts to disqualify docked dogs from showing only serves to exacerbate this problem in some breeds

The other problem is (as I understand it) - docking a pup's tail is far less cruel than docking the tail of an older dog. In any litter of working dogs, there will be some who are not selected for field training, some who begin field training but don't make the grade, and some who retire from the field. What will become of those who are no longer working now there's a huge stigma to owning a docked dog? :(

As there are Rotts in my family, a neighbour had a full tail one, and our family also had Jack Russells, I've considered the docking debate before. Having seen a rundown of the docked breeds on crufts last night I think I'm coming down on the side of non-docking. I can't honestly see a weimeraner suffering a broken tail too easily in the field. Perhaps a Rott actually being used as a police dog (though we don't in this country) may find the tail is a vulnerable point, but we don't dock GSDs (though I suppose you'd have to be on your hands and knees to be able to grab a GSD by it's tail ;) )

One of the breed groups most prone to tail breakage is hunting hounds - and we don't dock those - as their erect tail is carried as a flag to be spotted by the huntsman when they have their head in the undergrowth :P

On balance, I think docking should be banned completely - else Crufts should not involve itself in the regulation. The breeders who've thrown a strop and threatened to stop breeding as a consequence of this bill have me flabbergasted

So who WILL be docking the working dogs allowed to be docked?

Not the breeders with no veterinary experience, I hope :shocked:

Sorry if I'm missing the point - the way it came across to me was that it wouldn't be easy enough to police at all but I suppose if someone reported the vet in question, they would do something about it :)

Sorry another thought

The rules are docking is illegal for all dogs of any breed unless that dog actually 'works' A working dog would include a spaniel working to a gun. There has to be proof that the dog is 'working' otherwise the docking is illegal. It would ahev been easier to go down the Wales and Scotland route and make all docking of any sort illegal

The other problem is (as I understand it) - docking a pup's tail is far less cruel than docking the tail of an older dog. In any litter of working dogs, there will be some who are not selected for field training, some who begin field training but don't make the grade, and some who retire from the field. What will become of those who are no longer working now there's a huge stigma to owning a docked dog? :(

Yes, that did cross my mind :huh:


The breeders who've thrown a strop and threatened to stop breeding as a consequence of this bill have me flabbergasted

Me too, particularly as it was all about 'it won't look right' :shocked:

The situation (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6423933.stm) in Scotland come April, with a mention of the English regulations towards the end of the article.

Just to clarify:
12. Can I show my dog if it has been docked?
If your dog’s tail was docked before the new legislation comes into effect in April 2007 you will be able to continue to show your dog at all shows. If your working dog is docked legally after the law comes into force however, you will not be able to show your dog at events where there is a paying audience, other than to demonstrate purely your dog’s working ability.
Taken from here:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/765

Sorry another thought

The rules are docking is illegal for all dogs of any breed unless that dog actually 'works' A working dog would include a spaniel working to a gun. There has to be proof that the dog is 'working' otherwise the docking is illegal. It would ahev been easier to go down the Wales and Scotland route and make all docking of any sort illegal

Ah, I see...

So in that case, they can't do it as pups in the first couple of days when they supposedly can't feel it and heal quickly, but have to wait until the dog is old enough to prove it is working efficiently and then go to the vets, have a general anaesthetic, need painkillers and antibiotics to help it heal and be off the field for a good few days before it's fully recovered?

Now it's sounding even more ridiculous... :huh:

notice the comment "paying public" .
they wont; be disqualified from breed only or little group shows - where they could easily avoid paying public.

Ah, I see...

So in that case, they can't do it as pups in the first couple of days when they supposedly can't feel it and heal quickly, but have to wait until the dog is old enough to prove it is working efficiently and then go to the vets, have a general anaesthetic, need painkillers and antibiotics to help it heal and be off the field for a good few days before it's fully recovered?

Now it's sounding even more ridiculous... :huh:
A few days? It takes a damned sight longer than 'a few days for a fully grown dog to heal a wound that big :suspect:

A rapidly growing pup with a significantly smaller wound takes much less time to heal - hence the requirement that docking is done in the first five days of a pups' life (if I read Hecate's link correctly whilst skimming through it)

Ah, I see...

So in that case, they can't do it as pups in the first couple of days when they supposedly can't feel it and heal quickly, but have to wait until the dog is old enough to prove it is working efficiently and then go to the vets, have a general anaesthetic, need painkillers and antibiotics to help it heal and be off the field for a good few days before it's fully recovered?

Now it's sounding even more ridiculous... :huh:No I don't think so - The dog is usually bred as a working dog it is unlikely that a dog will start to work as an adult. The dog must have a certificate from the vet to proove that the docking was legal and the vet was convinced the dog is a working dog. A docked dog born after April 07 must have this certificate to protect the owner and prevent prosecution, it also ensures that vets work within the law the anti docking alliance web site is very claer about this .

notice the comment "paying public" .
they wont; be disqualified from breed only or little group shows - where they could easily avoid paying public.
Your dog can't become a champion by entering little group shows - hence my strop about the separation of 'show' dogs and 'working' dogs - a distinction which has already caused problems within certain breeds

The spaniels with brain defects due to excessively domed heads in the seventies were a product of breeding for the show ring breed standards, not from breeding for the field (for instance)

When people say 'working dogs' are we including Labs and Retrievers in this group?
These dogs are used as game dogs and are running through undergrowth etc etc but no-one has them with their tails docked.
I don't think it's a valid argument.

The rules on docking are pretty complicated. It is acceptable for a working dog to be docked, but that dog cannot be shown. nor can it be used in a pubic dispay of working ability (scent work etc at exhibition or competition level). Have to say Ive seen more traditionally docked breeds being shown with tails recently (at serious show level).
I personally largely disagree with docking and other surgical alteration for that matter when done purely for cosmetic reasons. I mean COME ON!, how many of these so-called 'working' dogs actually work?. the only alteration i see the point of is dew claw removal (mainly rear dew claws) as have seen the result of dogs tearing these.
Our vet will only dock for a medical reason.

I was very naive when we got Ailsa- thought all dobes were born without tails! Apparently hers was a good cut, but when we went to watch Crufts last friday we saw a few so-called showdogs with horribly stumps where you could almost see the white bone showing through..

Personally, it wouldn't bother me if dobes, rotties, boxers and the like were undocked- I've seen a few with their wispy long tails now and they kind of grow on me.

When people say 'working dogs' are we including Labs and Retrievers in this group?
These dogs are used as game dogs and are running through undergrowth etc etc but no-one has them with their tails docked.
I don't think it's a valid argument.

but labs are gun dogs - and therefore weren't thought to need docking. as a breed they are probably a little big for flushing game.their skill is retrieving where they need the power.

however i don't think docking has a valid argument in the 21st century full stop.

When we got our (current) dog, he'd had his tail docked & they didn't ask us if we wanted it doing, although he was 'with tail' when we chose him.

What was doubly annoying was when I asked for the vets paperwork I got "oh it was one of the neighbours who did it for us - they know what they're doing..."

Jeezus H Christ :shocked:

Needless to say one of litter died due to an infection..... :mad:

take your point daddy, but tail docking has been around for years and years, just wondered wether the new ban will have an effect on certain breeds cos i for one will not breed a rottweiler again.... just my opinion:)

[edited]You wouldnt breed a type dog because its tail will have to be longer. One of your previous posts stated one reason was because it will knock things over with its tail, we have labradors and their tails constantly knock into things but, I never think, oh lets chop it off!

[edited]

I once saw a rottie in botanical gardens with its owner, he had a full tail and he looked handsome! he was lovely!

[edited]You wouldnt breed a type dog because its tail will have to be longer. One of your previous posts stated one reason was because it will knock things over with its tail, we have labradors and their tails constantly knock into things but, I never think, oh lets chop it off!

[edited]

I once saw a rottie in botanical gardens with its owner, he had a full tail and he looked handsome! he was lovely!


We have people come into the store and they're so proud that their dog has a tail where the breed were all previously docked. One guy in particular was saying how happy his rotty pup looks with it's tail.
I certainly wouldn't have a dog with a docked tail