I am in big favour of bringing back the noose for serious crimes.
I know inocent people may have been hanged in the past but with todays DNA testing if someone was convicted without a doubt like with DNA....Then Top em.
Maybe its a bit much for drug offences Hal, so we will lock them up instead.;)

Yes, especially for traffic offences. And as for those Internet users, they're all a bunch of paedophiles, pedal-cyclists, porn-merchants and lots of other things beginning with P

And now over to Hal for the moderate view.

LOL:lol: A bit much with the Paedophiles, definately the pedal cyclists.:help:

Jesus Christ said - Thou shalt not kill, and one cannot challenge that view. However, I am not Jesus, I am only a human being with faults the same as anyone else, I am ruled by my emotions as we all are, so what are we to do?

What about war? do we have to kill then? What about judicial hanging? is that wrong. The bible says ( and I am not a bible puncher ) do not judge or you will be judged, what about the judge with a black cap on his head sentencing some one to death?

Is it possible to live as christ taught? do not retaliate, give everything you have away, do good to those who spitefully abuse you! and you will make them burn with shame. This couldn't happen, could it? thugs and criminals have no shame, do they?

So, what is to be done, shall we let the wrongdoers win? let them kill us and take everything we have? what is the answer? Is there one?

Originally posted by halevan
Jesus Christ said - Thou shalt not kill
Sorry Halevan... that was Moses. One of the Ten Commandments given to him by God!

:lol:

Only serious crimes especially people who close my posts and those who have fires in the afternoons should be hung and people who do not like Mr Green :mrgreen: should be made to watch Big Brother 24/7..

Originally posted by halevan
Jesus Christ said - Thou shalt not kill, and one cannot challenge that view. However, I am not Jesus, I am only a human being with faults the same as anyone else, I am ruled by my emotions as we all are, so what are we to do?

What about war? do we have to kill then? What about judicial hanging? is that wrong. The bible says ( and I am not a bible puncher ) do not judge or you will be judged, what about the judge with a black cap on his head sentencing some one to death?

Is it possible to live as christ taught? do not retaliate, give everything you have away, do good to those who spitefully abuse you! and you will make them burn with shame. This couldn't happen, could it? thugs and criminals have no shame, do they?

So, what is to be done, shall we let the wrongdoers win? let them kill us and take everything we have? what is the answer? Is there one?
yes there is halevan, the solution you eloquently voiced elsewhere - execute the lot of them without trial

Can we have another vote to bring back the birch? And can't we add "drawing and quartering", hanging's too good for them - if I catch the little buggers that carved an image of Homer Simpson into my prize marrow on the allotment...

What about the Cat, now there was a fine weapon.

:D

DNA evidence is not foolproof - there have been many cases proven by DNA which have later been reviewed as the technology advanced and it was realised that mistakes have been made.

Sorry Da Bouncer,
Jesus Christ did say ( Thou shalt not kill ) he said it in the sermon on the mount, when he repeated the ten commandments.

Yeah bring back hanging and make sure Geoff and the Mods are first in bloody line!

Originally posted by DaBouncer
Yeah bring back hanging and make sure Geoff and the Mods are first in bloody line!

cheers DB, what have i done :cry:

Sorry, very techy at the moment re: removal of my poll!
I saw your name in a response to Jon I think and now all Mod's are for the firing line... or noose which ever way you look at it.

I'll calm down soon, don't take my instant Grrrrrrrr posts to heart!

:lol: Lets form a posse and run these mods out of town lol you got to laugh

I'm a mod and I say bring back the noose, especially for those people who constantly moan.........about the little things in life !

Your point being michael?

That great crime against humanity......Thread locking DB ;)

Since I've already had an argument with Geoff about this, I feel reluctant to get into the my reasons AGAIN. Especially with someone who's... lets face it... just a MOD and nowt special.

;)

To use your words DB, don't take it to heart, none of us are owt special are we !

I am!:P And I'm not taking it to heart Michael. The moment has passed now!

No probs mate, take care and be cool 8)

Huh, i get the feeling your not taking my thread seriously.
I,m not interested in hanging mods (exept Geof), little green men or any other minor subject.
I,m talking about murderers and rapists and child molesters so take my thread seriously or i,ll have to kill you.:evil:

Oi Cycleracer hope you are not making fun of Mr Green :mrgreen:if you are its a firing -squad for you matey ;)

Grrr we could always hang forum members who show little green men, hey you might become a ghost then Jon:P You'd like that wunt ya.

:o I went to a haunted house today i found out both ghost were gay they put willies up each other :lol:

Originally posted by Jon
Only serious crimes especially people who close my posts and those who have fires in the afternoons should be hung and people who do not like Mr Green :mrgreen: should be made to watch Big Brother 24/7..

Those who have fires in the afternoon deserve a much harsher punishment than hanging.

And those who hold loud parties every weekend until 4am as well.

My neighbour's life expectancy wouldn't be very high.:D

speaking personally, I think killing is killing. We do it to unborn babies, soldiers, why not cirminals?

Why stop at serious crime? If execution is a good deterrent then why not extend it to all crime?

If it works for rape and murder, then it will sure as hell stop littering and reckless driving, not to mention drug abuse, selling cigarettes to minors and parking on double yellow lines. We could be living in a crime free paradise!

Originally posted by halevan However, I am not Jesus, I am only a human being...I think you'll find you're wrong there, for it is written Jesus Christ is in us all . I expect if you rummage around a bit you'll find HIM . You, halevan, are one of Christ's representatives on earth, a responsibility not to be shirked.

Nothing must keep you back, nothing separate you from him, nothing come between you and him. At all times and seasons, in every country and place, every day and all day, you must have a true and humble faith, and keep him in your heart where you must love, honour, adore, serve, praise and bless, glorify and acclaim, magnify and thank, the most high supreme and eternal God, three in one, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of All and Saviour of those who believe in him, who hope in him, and who love him; without beginning and without end, he is unchangeable, invisible, indescribable and ineffable, incomprehensible, unfathomable, blessed and worthy of all praise.

Sounds like quite a guy.

I think you'll find you're wrong there, for it is written Jesus Christ is in us all . I expect if you rummage around a bit you'll find HIM . You, halevan, are one of Christ's representatives on earth, a responsibility not to be shirked.

Whoa, dude... let's not fly off at tangents about messiahs, eh.
That's what they did a couple of milleniae ago, and now look at how many of you guys there are.

I might have some buddha in me, or krishna... do you think they're all having a nice cup of tea with jesus?

Originally posted by tymr
I might have some buddha in me, or krishna... do you think they're all having a nice cup of tea with jesus? Either that or logged into some dodgy bulletin board www.messiahforum... (...hmm wonder what the top level domain will be) having a pointless arguement ('till the mods shut it down).

Originally posted by Cycleracer
I am in big favour of bringing back the noose for serious crimes.
I know inocent people may have been hanged in the past but with todays DNA testing if someone was convicted without a doubt like with DNA....Then Top em.
Maybe its a bit much for drug offences Hal, so we will lock them up instead.;)

Was gonna start a new thread on the same lines.
Did a search first & found this.
Thought I'd re-hash it in regard to: :rant:
QUOTED FROM BBC NEWS WEBSITE:
A man who used his daughters as bait to lure their schoolfriends into his house where they were drugged and indecently assaulted has been jailed for 18 years.
Former school governor Glyn Martin, 53, of Bridlington, East Yorkshire, simulated the murders of nine girls as they lay "stupefied" by sedatives.

A lawyer prosecuting Martin at Hull Crown Court said it was the worst case of systematic child abuse he had known.

Sentencing him, the judge said he would be a danger to children for some time.

Martin had earlier pleaded guilty to 57 counts of indecent assault, child abduction, indecency with a child, administering noxious substances and taking indecent photos.
Police found a hoard of 6,000 indecent photos of 2,000 other girls.

Judge Michael Mettyear said Martin was a determined and calculating paedophile.


:rant: I FOR ONE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THIS CHAPPY SWING ALOFT.

i'm surprised with the number of mods in here, that this hasn't been merged with the same thread we did not more than a few months ago. I really can't be bothered to go and dig up the evidence again to show that capital punishment doesn't work as a detterant, costs more than life imprisonment and ignores one of the stated aims of our penal system, reform.

You can reform ham - I've seen it in supermarkets.

This bloke wants hanging

How can you reform people like him?
It surely doesn't matter how long he, and others like him are locked up for, you cannot take away their desires. Sitting around in groups of similar minded people in prisons discussing their activities would not make them any less of a danger.
If this man doesn't deserve to swing them there must surely be some form of chemical castration available to make him less of a threat if and when he is released.

Originally posted by Cycleracer
I am in big favour of bringing back the noose for serious crimes.
I know inocent people may have been hanged in the past but with todays DNA testing if someone was convicted without a doubt like with DNA....Then Top em.
Maybe its a bit much for drug offences Hal, so we will lock them up instead.;)

Thedeath penalty should come back , I AM 100% behind that, but not hanging, that is to inhumane for todays society , they just wont have it.

The death penalty needs to be somthing less upsetting for normal law abiding citizens to accept it, other wise it will never come back.

Lethal injection seems more realistic to me, no pain just death.

It is enough to put some people off what they are thinking about doing, but if you kill an innocent person then at least you know that they did not die in pain.

Then again may life on bread and water would be a better option.

May be before they get killed they should have the option to take a truth syrum, that way you would more or less garauntee getting your guilty man/woman.

I am 100% against the death penalty. We don't want to descend into the farce of the american judicial system where rich criminals get let off after a televised multimedia, multimilion pound defence, and poor lower class people who have no access to decent justice spend 10 years on death row.
And that country has the highest murder rate in the whole world, so it clearly isn't a good answer.

Didn't we have a very similar thread to this about a month ago?

go find the other thread. I provided evidence to show that capital punishment acts in no way as a deterrant.
I love the reasoning about killing an innocent person. I'm sure that there family will be all okay about it as long as they died without pain.
Kill one innocent person and you've failed, and since no conviction can be 100% (including with DNA evidence) you can't take that risk.

Originally posted by jonsastar
Thedeath penalty should come back , I AM 100% behind that, but not hanging, that is to inhumane for todays society , they just wont have it.

The death penalty needs to be somthing less upsetting for normal law abiding citizens to accept it, other wise it will never come back.

Lethal injection seems more realistic to me, no pain just death.

It is enough to put some people off what they are thinking about doing, but if you kill an innocent person then at least you know that they did not die in pain.

Then again may life on bread and water would be a better option.

May be before they get killed they should have the option to take a truth syrum, that way you would more or less garauntee getting your guilty man/woman.

Why should we have to copy the American way just because they get it wrong?
Hang em all regardless of wealth.

If they're rich hang em with silk!

Where are your statistics for the highest murder rate in the world from? Is it just 'detected' or 'reported' murders?

How about the former State of Iraq? Sadam had a pretty good track record for murder.

Is it just because they got the highest population?

'cos then it's all relative as a ratio to murder per capita of population.

innit?:confused:

the us have the highest rate of recorded per capita murders in the world by a long way.

Murder is defined as illegal killing. So within Iraq a killing by the state (ie at Saddams behest) would not be considered murder, nor for the purposes of this discussion should it be.

I don't know what a "detected" murder is, but from all countries a recorded murder is one which a coroner or simlar government agent has determined that the cause of death was an illegal killing.

Originally posted by Cyclone
go find the other thread. I provided evidence to show that capital punishment acts in no way as a deterrant.
I love the reasoning about killing an innocent person. I'm sure that there family will be all okay about it as long as they died without pain.


So capital punishment doesnt deter people from commiting crime , not so sure about that, could stop one or two, in which case it may be worth it.

One thing capital punishment does do is save the country hundreds of thousands in prison bills and such.
Where there is no life sentence but a quick result.

I agree that if you get 1 innoscent person then the whole system fails but you are wrong that no murder can be proven 100%.

There are murder cases with multiple witnesses.

Also in the case of child sex killers , they should have life in solitary on bread and water, as death is to easy for them.

In this incidence the evidence was irrifutable.
Glyn Martin had thousands of photos of himself doing the biz,
kiddie fiddling; drugged kiddies at that - not one's that the bleeding heart brigade would argue gave their consent.

Hang him. Hang him. Hang him.


ps. I did look at the other thread.
It remains unresolved in my opinion. The evidence against is poor. Both threads should be merged please MOD

Lets have a good one :rant:

Originally posted by Cyclone
go find the other thread. I provided evidence to show that capital punishment acts in no way as a deterrant.
I love the reasoning about killing an innocent person. I'm sure that there family will be all okay about it as long as they died without pain.
Kill one innocent person and you've failed, and since no conviction can be 100% (including with DNA evidence) you can't take that risk.

So capital punishment doesnt deter potential murders, not even one or two, not sure about that.

There are murder cases in which there can be 100% proof cases with multiple witnesses, photographic or video evidence plus a body and DNA proof also cases where the defendant has addmitted to the crime and it is backed up by other evidence ie as above.

Originally posted by jonsastar
One thing capital punishment does do is save the country hundreds of thousands in prison bills and such.
Where there is no life sentence but a quick result.

I'm sorry but Death sentence would not prove cheap in a modern british context. The amount of legal argument which would be considered failsafe in such cases would make each murderer's case cost millions, much more than the equivalent time in prison. If you consider that a life sentence might last 30 years. and the average prison place in uk (2002-3) was £38,000* then the sentence in todays money would cost £1.14mil, which would be considerably cheaper.

*source prison reform trust
http://www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/pdf%20files/October%20Briefing%20-%2003.html

£1.14 mil is small change in the UK.
It's worth every penny to see the likes glyn martin
swinging.

||
||
=:gag: =

Originally posted by jonsastar
Also in the case of child sex killers , they should have life in solitary on bread and water, as death is to easy for them.

If you put people like this in solitary, it prevents the other prisoners for harming them. Much better to put them into an overcrowded aging victorian prison, where tradition dictates that the other prisoners who have children make the rest of their lives a living hell.

Along similar lines, Peter Sutcliffe,
If they would have hanged him, then the pleasure of reading about another nutter in their workroom gouging his eyes out with a ball point pen, would have been lost to the world.

If only that would happen.
Prisons are full of pensioners who have defaulted on their council tax these days.

All the proper criminals have a social worker, care officer, case conference group, psychologist on hand to keep them out of prison.

they should put glyn martin into a WOMENS prison!!! They'd reform him :heyhey:

correct, it doesn't deter potential murders, not even one or two.

Now that we've agreed on that, you can see that capital punishment as a deterant is pointless.

For evidence see the murder rates before the uk abolished the death penalty and afterwards. No change in the trend whatsoever. Also see the difference in murder rates in us states with and without the penalty. None.
And finally, a little bit of psychology of a criminal mind. Most criminals convince themselves that they will not be caught, it's a form of self delusion and is the reason that they basically discount the consequences of being caught as they consider it to be highly unlikely.

Originally posted by jonsastar
So capital punishment doesnt deter potential murders, not even one or two, not sure about that.

There are murder cases in which there can be 100% proof cases with multiple witnesses, photographic or video evidence plus a body and DNA proof also cases where the defendant has addmitted to the crime and it is backed up by other evidence ie as above.

Originally posted by Cyclone
correct, it doesn't deter potential murders, not even one or two.

Now that we've agreed on that, you can see that capital punishment as a deterant is pointless.

For evidence see the murder rates before the uk abolished the death penalty and afterwards. No change in the trend whatsoever. Also see the difference in murder rates in us states with and without the penalty. None.
And finally, a little bit of psychology of a criminal mind. Most criminals convince themselves that they will not be caught, it's a form of self delusion and is the reason that they basically discount the consequences of being caught as they consider it to be highly unlikely.

Then check reoffender rates after they were hung :thumbsup:

Originally posted by Cyclone
the us have the highest rate of recorded per capita murders in the world by a long way.

Murder is defined as illegal killing. So within Iraq a killing by the state (ie at Saddams behest) would not be considered murder, nor for the purposes of this discussion should it be.

I don't know what a "detected" murder is, but from all countries a recorded murder is one which a coroner or simlar government agent has determined that the cause of death was an illegal killing.

What's your source Cyclone? According to Nationmaster.com the United States are actually 24th in the worlds list with 0.04 murders per 1000 capita. Highest is Columbia with 0.63 per 1000. Their definition of homicide is "Total recorded intentional homicides, completed"

I personally am in favour of the death penalty, but not for all murders. I think certain crimes such as the murder of a child should attract the death penalty, but only where there is absolute proof of the offence.

Hanging Knot!

If evidence is irrefutable, I say send them off to a prison in a third world country for a life sentence. The 3wc will benefit from the extra money and taxpayers will benefit from lower costs.

Originally posted by Cycleracer
I am in big favour of bringing back the noose for serious crimes.
I know inocent people may have been hanged in the past but with todays DNA testing if someone was convicted without a doubt like with DNA....Then Top em.
Maybe its a bit much for drug offences Hal, so we will lock them up instead.;)
i agree mate 100 per cent................bloody bike theives:hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Originally posted by Kristian

I personally am in favour of the death penalty, but not for all murders.


I agree that not all murders deserve the death sentence, there are cases of accidental murder, in which some one is killed but the killer just meant to hurt the other person and not kill them.

In cases of persistant offenders then may be the death penalty is a good choice of penalties.

Especially in cases such as Glyn Martin, who should spend a few hours with the parents of the kids he defiled.

No one knows if he murdered any children yet, but if he had these fantasies then what was there to stop him from carrying them out.

HANG DRAW AND QUARTER HIM

Originally posted by Kristian
What's your source Cyclone? According to Nationmaster.com the United States are actually 24th in the worlds list with 0.04 murders per 1000 capita. Highest is Columbia with 0.63 per 1000. Their definition of homicide is "Total recorded intentional homicides, completed"

I personally am in favour of the death penalty, but not for all murders. I think certain crimes such as the murder of a child should attract the death penalty, but only where there is absolute proof of the offence.

to be honest it was just what i believed. I'll try to remember 24th for next time I need to know it.

There is no such thing as absolute proof.

jonsastar - that's called manslaughter, it's a different crime.

Most murderers do not reoffend, so you won't find many 'persistant' offenders. Maybe 15 years inside gives them time for a little reflection and to grow up a bit.

Now you're talking about killing someone without any evidence that he's actually caused someone bodily harm. Would that not make you (or the judge or the hangman) also a murderer, who in turn should swing.

Just be honest, the only reason you want to see people killed is in revenge. Not as a deterant, not so that they don't reoffend. It's vengenance pure and simple, and it's an ugly emotion and proves nothing except that you are prepared to lower yourself to the same level as the criminal.

Originally posted by Cyclone
to be honest it was just what i believed. I'll try to remember 24th for next time I need to know it.

There is no such thing as absolute proof.

jonsastar - that's called manslaughter, it's a different crime.

Most murderers do not reoffend, so you won't find many 'persistant' offenders. Maybe 15 years inside gives them time for a little reflection and to grow up a bit.

Now you're talking about killing someone without any evidence that he's actually caused someone bodily harm. Would that not make you (or the judge or the hangman) also a murderer, who in turn should swing.

Just be honest, the only reason you want to see people killed is in revenge. Not as a deterant, not so that they don't reoffend. It's vengenance pure and simple, and it's an ugly emotion and proves nothing except that you are prepared to lower yourself to the same level as the criminal.

The reason I brought this thread out of retirement was that I was seeking hanging for the likes of GLYN MARTIN where the evidence WAS ABSOLUTE PROOF - he appeared in his own disgusting photo's. And hanging him would be a positive way to stop him reoffending. I am not seeking revenge because I have not personally been affected by his actions.
But if in 20 years time he is released having had the best reforming rehab that taxpayers money could buy he reoffends... The whole system, the theorists, the do-gooders, the bleeding-heart brigade will have all failed. Is it worth the risk?
It may be your child/grandchild he gets next time.

Hang him

Im all for bringing back the death penalty and hanging too!
If you commit murder then you should have your life taken away from you too.

Simple as that.

The following countries are the poorest in the world. Surely, one of them could provide prison services to life time prisoners at a substantial cost savings without having to resort to hangings:

Rank Country /GDP per capita
1 Sierra Leone $500
2 Tanzania $550
3 Ethiopia $560
4 Somalia $600
5 Cambodia $710
5 Congo, Democratic Republic of the $710
7 Rwanda $720
8 Comoros $725
9 Burundi $730
10 Eritrea $750
10 Yemen $750
12 Madagascar $780
13 Afghanistan $800
13 Tuvalu $800
15 Mali $820
16 Kiribati $860
17 Zambia $880
18 Guinea-Bissau $900
19 Malawi $940
19 Sudan $940
21 Nigeria $970

Criminal theses days have little deterrant so if the facts are undoubtable then justice must seen to be done.

Its better to kill the bad ones ,than let the bad ones have the potential to kill the good ones. Weed out the crap in society now or i'll do it myself.

No. Can't be bothered to explain why again, check the previous poll on this subject.

In the USA I saw a protester outside a prison with a placard asking " Why do we kill people to prove its wrong to kill people?"

If a person commits a crime (eg. abducts and kills a child) and we have absolute proof of their involvement in the crime should the state have the right to kill?
The state prosecution would argue that it was evil, premeditated action and demand the dealth penalty. Surely that, in itself is "premeditated" killing (definition of premeditated - 'to reflect, ponder, or deliberate beforehand'). Should the state have the right to take life when on the other hand it makes it a crime? Do two wrongs make a right?

But what if it were my children, or my girlfriend, or my parents? It's a tough one. I'd probably be vengeful too and demand the death penalty so I can't be too moralistic in what I say. On this one I can't give a definitive answer.

Originally posted by Don_Kiddick
The reason I brought this thread out of retirement was that I was seeking hanging for the likes of GLYN MARTIN where the evidence WAS ABSOLUTE PROOF - he appeared in his own disgusting photo's. And hanging him would be a positive way to stop him reoffending. I am not seeking revenge because I have not personally been affected by his actions.
But if in 20 years time he is released having had the best reforming rehab that taxpayers money could buy he reoffends... The whole system, the theorists, the do-gooders, the bleeding-heart brigade will have all failed. Is it worth the risk?
It may be your child/grandchild he gets next time.

Hang him

i'll accept that there is little doubt in this case.
But you advocating that he should die for having a mental illness. And what's more he didn't actually do anything other than take photo's, very little harm has been done.
Is it worth the risk that he might reoffend, well, firstly you'd have to assess the risk. And secondly you'd have to ask whether killing him was the only alternative to allowing him complete freedom if the risk of reoffence was high.
I'd say firstly that you have no idea what the risk of reoffence is, 2ndly that there are many alternatives to killing him in order to make the public safe if he were at a high risk of reoffence.

So what's your motive really, it doesn't seem to be proctecting children so much as punishing this person.

I'm all for hanging but only by the coconuts.