There have been numerous bus accidents over the past few years, many in sheffield and many unreported. At 30mph without seatbelts you become a missile flying down the bus. Our main concern is that of the safety of our schoolchildren, transported on old buses, no seat belts and the non-policechecked driver having to attempt to drive the vehicle with 70 plus kids running amok.
The aim of this thread is to get your views on the subject and discover any accidents and worries that have not been reported.
If you, a friend or family member have been involved in a bus accident within the past few years then contact me on peter.thurst@btinternet.com as you may be able to help us an if the conditions are right we may also be able to help you.
Lets get these buses safe.

There have been numerous bus accidents over the past few years, many in sheffield and many unreported. At 30mph without seatbelts you become a missile flying down the bus. Our main concern is that of the safety of our schoolchildren, transported on old buses, no seat belts and the non-policechecked driver having to attempt to drive the vehicle with 70 plus kids running amok.
The aim of this thread is to get your views on the subject and discover any accidents and worries that have not been reported.
If you, a friend or family member have been involved in a bus accident within the past few years then contact me on peter.thurst@btinternet.com as you may be able to help us an if the conditions are right we may also be able to help you.
Lets get these buses safe.

If only they could get up to 30mph in Sheffield .....

Bus travel remains one of the safest forms of travel. But if the PTE continue to accept the lowest tender price for school contracts, instead of looking at quality, you will always get some less reputable operators running older vehicles. Of course the safest option would be to have brand new dedicated buses with seat belts, CCTV, and an Escort to keep kids under control, but who would be willing to pay?

As for accidents, buses are bound to be involved in accidents from time to time due to the number of car drivers out there, whose driving skills are far below that of a professional PCV driver.

There have been numerous bus accidents over the past few years, many in sheffield and many unreported. At 30mph without seatbelts you become a missile flying down the bus. Our main concern is that of the safety of our schoolchildren, transported on old buses, no seat belts and the non-policechecked driver having to attempt to drive the vehicle with 70 plus kids running amok.
The aim of this thread is to get your views on the subject and discover any accidents and worries that have not been reported.
If you, a friend or family member have been involved in a bus accident within the past few years then contact me on peter.thurst@btinternet.com as you may be able to help us an if the conditions are right we may also be able to help you.
Lets get these buses safe.

Before you embark on your quest for glory,answer this,"70 plus kids running amok"there is your answer staring you right in the face.

Seatbelts not fitted because its not a legal requirement,"police checked drivers"what are you trying to say?.

Why does your post resemble a no win no fee advert,,,,"hi im bill and i slipped on a bus peter thurst got me 6 zillion pounds and a day off work,,,im well happy":thumbsup:

I know it sounds like an add, and we do this campaign nationwide and yes we do make a living out of it.
Over the past year we have dealt with numerous bus accidents involving schoolchildren. These include fatalities, children flying through the top deck front windows, buses upside down in dykes, accidents because children stand in the front talking to drivers (why do adults want to talk to 13yr olds on the bus ???? ).
For 25 years Government have done nothing even though they made promises. Other campaigns have made noises but accomplished nothing. Coming from a business background I know that organisations react when they have to pay out money. Therefore, our logic, which works, is to force safety improvements by causing the insurance companies to pay out. If a person collects £1000 the insurance company pays out 6+. Multiply this by 40+ per bus and then multiply it by the number of accidents and you will see their cost. We estimate around 5 million so far. What would you do if you were paying out that much? Would you reduce your risk by ensuring safer transport ???
As far as an advert for a business, that's not the intention, but we do cover our costs and we do do this full time within regulations. My aim is to promulgate not profit and I apologise if anyone takes it the wrong way.

Can you be more specific about the number of bus accidents in Sheffield and the number of school children killed/injured?

Unfortunately can't be specific about anything. Many accidents are not reported, there is no central place to report accidents, the press only report a few of them.
An example being around a Derbyshire village, we investigated one accident that had one report in a local paper. On site we discovered 9. Figures cannot be recorded if accidents are not reported.
This is why I started this thread. We have never used a forum before and I stumbled on it doing research and thought that I would give it a go.

Bus travel remains one of the safest forms of travel. But if the PTE continue to accept the lowest tender price for school contracts, instead of looking at quality, you will always get some less reputable operators running older vehicles. Of course the safest option would be to have brand new dedicated buses with seat belts, CCTV, and an Escort to keep kids under control, but who would be willing to pay?

As for accidents, buses are bound to be involved in accidents from time to time due to the number of car drivers out there, whose driving skills are far below that of a professional PCV driver.

There is no major cost, for instance, Redline have put in seat belts and masked up the metal on the top of the seats on their old buses.

I would have thought that every bus company would be required by law to record any and all accidents however minor. Maybe that's something that would be a helpful step forward.

I know some of the newer buses have quite (not sure how to word this) short seats, so if the bus brakes hard for instance you're more likely to fall off the seat because you're already only half on it (does that make sense?).

loads of times i've seen youngsters standing on buses, right next to the driver and also stood up on the top deck with their backs to the front window. It makes me cringe and i'd really hate to be a bus driver with all that responsibility but no way of making - youngsters in particular - sit in their seats and behave. That's where the conductors used to come in useful. I think every school bus ought to have an adult 'escort' on board.

(why do adults want to talk to 13yr olds on the bus ???? ).
.

Try social interaction, try because the 13 year old doesn't feel safe with the others, try because driver and young person are people. Why does every adult/child interaction have to have this sordid question attached? I agree that checks need to be put in place, but please bear in mind that some bus drivers try to make the journey ok for the kids.

Try social interaction, try because the 13 year old doesn't feel safe with the others, try because driver and young person are people. Why does every adult/child interaction have to have this sordid question attached? I agree that checks need to be put in place, but please bear in mind that some bus drivers try to make the journey ok for the kids.

Easy,its because yet again its a case of someone looking for something thats not there.

In all honesty I very rarley see instances of any of the statements made by the OP,accidents are recorded at a central point,this would be known if the time had been taken to do some research,,,,UK Bus for instance.

Just another band wagon about to start rolling.

why do adults want to talk to 13yr olds on the bus ????



Please elaborate,and what bearing does such a statement have on your objective??????

Over the past year we have dealt with numerous bus accidents involving schoolchildren. These include fatalities, children flying through the top deck front windows, buses upside down in dykes, accidents because children stand in the front talking to drivers (why do adults want to talk to 13yr olds on the bus ???? ).
.

This would be the Bus companies fault in what way?

Are all the children forced to stand at the front of the bus?,are they told to climb on the windows?.

Maybe educating the children in question should be the first step,before pointing the finger of blame.

What hope have we got of getting kids to put seat belts on when we cant get them to sit down.

DONT blame the bus driver what hope as he got of getting them to sit down when he is on his own and the schools and parents arnt bothered.

Its no good banning the kids from the school bus because they just go runniing off to a human rights lawer

why do adults want to talk to 13yr olds on the bus ????



Please elaborate,and what bearing does such a statement have on your objective??????


Because drivers are not police checked. Some children are allowed to stand at the front, blocking the drivers view which is unsafe and against the regulations. There is presently a court case going of a driver allegedly sexually assaulting a 12 year old, others have preceded this. We are not looking at the seedier side but the safer side, what is wrong with wanting drivers who transport our children to be vetted first, it falls in line with the safety of our children.

What hope have we got of getting kids to put seat belts on when we cant get them to sit down.

DONT blame the bus driver what hope as he got of getting them to sit down when he is on his own and the schools and parents arnt bothered.

Its no good banning the kids from the school bus because they just go runniing off to a human rights lawer

We don't blame drivers, and I for one could not do the job. However, the driver must be allowed to concentrate on driving, how can they do this with youngsters running around. Our suggestion has been for school buses or buses that ferry a lot of children to have escorts on them, either teachers or parents, and it is they that have the responsibility to for the children, thus the driver can do his job, and moreso, do it safer.

This would be the Bus companies fault in what way?

Are all the children forced to stand at the front of the bus?,are they told to climb on the windows?.

Maybe educating the children in question should be the first step,before pointing the finger of blame.


For example, children sat on a bus, unseatbelted, car hits bus on a country road, bus hits tree. Children at the front of the bus hit and go through window. This is an actual incident. Seatbelted, injuries and trauma would be minimised.

Easy,its because yet again its a case of someone looking for something thats not there.

In all honesty I very rarley see instances of any of the statements made by the OP,accidents are recorded at a central point,this would be known if the time had been taken to do some research,,,,UK Bus for instance.

Just another band wagon about to start rolling.

Please show me the site where all bus accidents are recorded, we would love to see it, unfortunately they are not, bus companies have the capeability to repair the bus and do not report it. As mentioned in the derbyshire village, 1 accident reported in the press, we found 9, but there was no evidence except for witnesses, people on the bus, damaged signposts etc, but no report therefore it did not happen.

Please show me the site where all bus accidents are recorded, we would love to see it, unfortunately they are not, bus companies have the capeability to repair the bus and do not report it. As mentioned in the derbyshire village, 1 accident reported in the press, we found 9, but there was no evidence except for witnesses, people on the bus, damaged signposts etc, but no report therefore it did not happen.

I never said there was a site where they can be found,I did however state that there is a system in place for the recording of such accidents,,,like I said if its researched correctly it can be found.

I never said there was a site where they can be found,I did however state that there is a system in place for the recording of such accidents,,,like I said if its researched correctly it can be found.

My apologies, only been doing this for 14months and not found such a system. Please enlighten me as this will help us, thanks.

Because drivers are not police checked. Some children are allowed to stand at the front, blocking the drivers view which is unsafe and against the regulations. There is presently a court case going of a driver allegedly sexually assaulting a 12 year old, others have preceded this. We are not looking at the seedier side but the safer side, what is wrong with wanting drivers who transport our children to be vetted first, it falls in line with the safety of our children.


The key word here is ALLEGEDLY.

I would love to see some proven statistics to back up your claims as Im sure many other would also.
However as you claim that there is some kind of conspiracy,with companies covering up accidents I doubt the statistics even exsist.

Just a couple of sites for information:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_5410000/newsid_5410300/5410360.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm

http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/display.var.1213185.0.bus_driver_denies_sex_with_t eenager.php

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5164918.stm

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=451&id=710222002

http://www.blackpoolcitizen.co.uk/news/poulton/display.var.971506.0.pupils_injured_on_school_bus_ trip.php

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3463909.stm

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2007/02/14/newsstory9301689t0.asp

http://www.piccadillymanchester.com/index.asp?Sessionx=IpqiNwEjNw7nJ0qiNwF6IHqi

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/4214882.stm this report fails to inform people that the same bus had an accident with the same children on before some 2 miles from this accident and fails to report the numerous children that went to their doctors, were traumatised etc.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/3030557.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/uk/newsid_3411000/3411303.stm

I know it sounds like an add, and we do this campaign nationwide and yes we do make a living out of it.
Over the past year we have dealt with numerous bus accidents involving schoolchildren. These include fatalities, children flying through the top deck front windows, buses upside down in dykes, accidents because children stand in the front talking to drivers (why do adults want to talk to 13yr olds on the bus ???? ).
For 25 years Government have done nothing even though they made promises. Other campaigns have made noises but accomplished nothing. Coming from a business background I know that organisations react when they have to pay out money. Therefore, our logic, which works, is to force safety improvements by causing the insurance companies to pay out. If a person collects £1000 the insurance company pays out 6+. Multiply this by 40+ per bus and then multiply it by the number of accidents and you will see their cost. We estimate around 5 million so far. What would you do if you were paying out that much? Would you reduce your risk by ensuring safer transport ???
As far as an advert for a business, that's not the intention, but we do cover our costs and we do do this full time within regulations. My aim is to promulgate not profit and I apologise if anyone takes it the wrong way.

I can only see one outcome of your scheme, bus fares will increase to recover legal costs.
I do not beleive in suing for accidents (imo it should be a criminal offence)
If a driver purposefully crashed a bus and injuries occurred that might be a case for suing but not accidental crashes.

I can only see one outcome of your scheme, bus fares will increase to recover legal costs.
I do not beleive in suing for accidents (imo it should be a criminal offence)
If a driver purposefully crashed a bus and injuries occurred that might be a case for suing but not accidental crashes.

So an innocent passenger who is unsecured, flies down the bus in an accident, others fall on them and their back is damaged (actual case). They can not work for a long while and may even have to look for new work, their income has gone, they are in pain and suffering, they cannot meet mortgage repayments and go deep into debt. That sounds fair to me for an innocent individual, as you say, if its not criminal then we should not sue.
As far recovering costs, the bus companies are not paying out, yes if they have accidents, as with car insurance, their rates go up. The cost is brunted by the insurance companies, they have an operandi to minimise costs, accidents are going to happen, therefore, minimising cost by enforcing safer conditions must be an option. What else can they do?

I would have thought that every bus company would be required by law to record any and all accidents however minor. Maybe that's something that would be a helpful step forward.

I know some of the newer buses have quite (not sure how to word this) short seats, so if the bus brakes hard for instance you're more likely to fall off the seat because you're already only half on it (does that make sense?).

loads of times i've seen youngsters standing on buses, right next to the driver and also stood up on the top deck with their backs to the front window. It makes me cringe and i'd really hate to be a bus driver with all that responsibility but no way of making - youngsters in particular - sit in their seats and behave. That's where the conductors used to come in useful. I think every school bus ought to have an adult 'escort' on board.


I agree, every bus accident, never mind how minor should be reported nationally, and that information, under the Freedom of Information Act should be available, it isn't.
We have tried to help people before but the bus company deny the accident even with witness and physical damage to a sign supporting them. It was not reported anywhere and we have no way of finding it out. Unfortunately this leads us into a separate minefield where you would expect a solicitor to fight for a persons rights. However, in this money orientated day, an individual's rights are balanced against the amount of work involved, the probability of success and its profitability for the legal services. This is a separate argument and one which bugs the personal injury field and can only be changed by changes in the law, however, who would make that change??

The key word here is ALLEGEDLY.

I would love to see some proven statistics to back up your claims as Im sure many other would also.
However as you claim that there is some kind of conspiracy,with companies covering up accidents I doubt the statistics even exsist.

Look at the sites I've posted

So an innocent passenger who is unsecured, flies down the bus in an accident, others fall on them and their back is damaged (actual case). They can not work for a long while and may even have to look for new work, their income has gone, they are in pain and suffering, they cannot meet mortgage repayments and go deep into debt. That sounds fair to me for an innocent individual, as you say, if its not criminal then we should not sue.
As far recovering costs, the bus companies are not paying out, yes if they have accidents, as with car insurance, their rates go up. The cost is brunted by the insurance companies, they have an operandi to minimise costs, accidents are going to happen, therefore, minimising cost by enforcing safer conditions must be an option. What else can they do?
This innocent passenger should claim incapacity benefit, there local CAB could help them with this for free. In this case you mention, was the crash the fault of the hypothetical driver?
If you care so much why not work in a factory making seatbelts or petition the government to change the law.

My points were;
1. Bus companies will increase fairs if people sue (like you)
2. Theres no point of suing in an accident
3. There is a point of sung if the crash was caused on purpose by the driver

Could you address these 3 points before hypothesising a crash and its outcomes yet again

This innocent passenger should claim incapacity benefit, there local CAB could help them with this for free. In this case you mention, was the crash the fault of the hypothetical driver?
If you care so much why not work in a factory making seatbelts or petition the government to change the law.

My points were;
1. Bus companies will increase fairs if people sue (like you)
2. Theres no point of suing in an accident
3. There is a point of sung if the crash was caused on purpose by the driver

Could you address these 3 points before hypothesising a crash and its outcomes yet again

I don't think you have a grasp on reality, and I did answer your question.

you dont believe in compensation, and believe that any person or organisation can be negligent, cause pain, suffering and loss to another and get away with it. Welcome to victoriana.

I hope you are never in an accident, and say become paralised. If you do please wheel yourself to the CAB and collect your benifits, as your waiting please watch your house being reposessed, enjoy yourself in bankrupcy and enjoy the pain and suffering you and your family now have. Or maybe this wonderful system has another way of sorting you out. Oh yes, insurance, a thing we all pay into, however, we don't make claims on insurance as that's a badddd thing to do. Nice world you live in. Please knock loudly if you wish to return to the real world.

This innocent passenger should claim incapacity benefit, there local CAB could help them with this for free. In this case you mention, was the crash the fault of the hypothetical driver?
If you care so much why not work in a factory making seatbelts or petition the government to change the law.

My points were;
1. Bus companies will increase fairs if people sue (like you)
2. Theres no point of suing in an accident
3. There is a point of sung if the crash was caused on purpose by the driver

Could you address these 3 points before hypothesising a crash and its outcomes yet again

Regarding my working in a factory, thank you for your career advice. However, as a dyslexic single parent I happen to have a BA(Hons) in Business and a BSc(Hons) in psychology and have previously spent years working alongside Government to make improvements. I spent 6 months on a Government Committee post Miss Woodwards child dealings in America to make childcare safer for the children, which was whitewashed with no actual results. For 25 years Government have been approached by comittees and individuals, nothing happened. A case was just lost by a girl trying to get seatbelts fitted as law on buses. A lot of work and nothing happening. Children and adults are still getting hurt and killed. So why not try another method.

Thank you for patronising me and my colleagues and I would love to have a job in a factory, ooops been there already and the army. Hey maybe I have experience and knowledge, maybe I understand the problem maybe I am trying to affect a solution. You never know.

One thing I know is that I started this thread to get information and awareness and have nothing but to defend myself when I am trying to make things safer. You obviously like the dark ages and have no real consideration for others, if I have to continue waisting my time with narrow minded blind people who cant argue properly and cant see the wood for the trees and dont want improvements then I will close this thread.

Look at the sites I've posted

News reports are all well and good,but wheres the statistics?.

Bus and coach user casualties in Sheffield are 16% below the baseline average.

In all honesty,did you expect to post on a public forum and not recieve questions from users wanting answers.
Im sure your intentions are good,but people are nayrualy curious and pureley saying what your aims are need to be backed up by hard solids facts and statistics,not just news reports.
If we look we can find hundreds of news reports on any subject and we would never leave the house and be suing each other left right and center.

I can only see one outcome of your scheme, bus fares will increase to recover legal costs.
I do not beleive in suing for accidents (imo it should be a criminal offence)
If a driver purposefully crashed a bus and injuries occurred that might be a case for suing but not accidental crashes.

Bus companies have Public Liabilty Insurance for such incidents,an accident is an accident there is a big difference between accident and negligent.

I do feel however that the compensation culture is getting out of hand,you cant even switch on the tv without seeing adds for No Win No Fee firms.

Bus companies have Public Liabilty Insurance for such incidents,an accident is an accident there is a big difference between accident and negligent.

I do feel however that the compensation culture is getting out of hand,you cant even switch on the tv without seeing adds for No Win No Fee firms.

I agree the compensation culture was getting out of hand, however, the industry is now heavily regulated (enforced as of Apr this year), the compensation bill has been passed and the major companies who sold insurance packages and worked on a numbers game have ceased to trade. There is also a fine line between what is and what isn't a claim even though we have guidelines of limitation. negligence and quantum. Presently it is up to the industry, the legal services and courts to ensure claims are realistic. The new regulations will help with this.
From a personal point of view I welcome regulation and work hard at altering the perceptions gained from the improper practices beforehand to a more professional and acceptable industry.
I also agree that we are inundated by TV adverts on no win, no fee. There is a downside to this as they work by accepting easily winnable cases, 90/95% chance of winning. The result being that many people who suffer and have a ligitimate claim get turned down and believe that they have no claim. As stated before profit overides individual rights.

Bus companies have Public Liabilty Insurance for such incidents,an accident is an accident there is a big difference between accident and negligent.

I do feel however that the compensation culture is getting out of hand,you cant even switch on the tv without seeing adds for No Win No Fee firms.

There is a difference between an accident an negligence, however, the law of tort applies where an individual sufferes a non fault injury, as it is a failure of duty of care, which is negligence.

News reports are all well and good,but wheres the statistics?.

Bus and coach user casualties in Sheffield are 16% below the baseline average.

In all honesty,did you expect to post on a public forum and not recieve questions from users wanting answers.
Im sure your intentions are good,but people are nayrualy curious and pureley saying what your aims are need to be backed up by hard solids facts and statistics,not just news reports.
If we look we can find hundreds of news reports on any subject and we would never leave the house and be suing each other left right and center.

I would love some statistics, however, there is, as far as I am aware, no nationwide database and if there is, is it accessable, additionally, as stated from our own investigations, some accidents in some areas are not reported, thus any statistics are corrupt.