My own opinions have been documented in other threads but it would be nice to hear what veterans have to say about the current position the forces are in regarding disinvestment and under arming our troops for combat.....

SGT Derek Hutchinson 2nd Commando Batt Kimberly.
No 61052105244005

churchil said it right...give us the tools and we,ll finish the job......no tools with this wishy wasy blair government...usa dont know how to win hearts and minds only more fire power,british army are best in the world ,aden ireland ,
palestine what the heck is blair doing considering handing over our troops to bush to use as he wants...stop paying millions in foregn aid and give the lads the money for better gear to do the job they are put up to do.and due to pc crap if you do the job you stand a chance of bieng charged with murder if you kill one of the enemy....dont think they work on the yellow card system!!!!!for the opipnianated on this forum suggest you google yellow card ,rules of engagement...good luck sgt

Originally posted by depoix
churchil said it right...give us the tools and we,ll finish the job......no tools with this wishy wasy blair government...usa dont know how to win hearts and minds only more fire power,british army are best in the world ,aden ireland ,
palestine what the heck is blair doing considering handing over our troops to bush to use as he wants...stop paying millions in foregn aid and give the lads the money for better gear to do the job they are put up to do.and due to pc crap if you do the job you stand a chance of bieng charged with murder if you kill one of the enemy....dont think they work on the yellow card system!!!!!for the opipnianated on this forum suggest you google yellow card ,rules of engagement...good luck sgt
Thanks for that!...The Sa80 has been a good money maker for the back handed manufacturer....It has taken years to get the gun to fire without jamming......And billions in tax payers money to get right.
The new Euro Fighter is another good addition to the RAF! we couldnt afford the cannons so we had them taken off....this created an unstable aircraft so we have now decided to have the cannons fitted but without the firing pins because we cannot afford the ammunition......

THe 2 aircraft carriers that are currently being built are gonna be great as we are doing away with the jump jet and the planes we have ordered from the US cannot fly!......A few years ago we were invited to attend a Naval/RAF excercise in the Atlantic...with the American fleet.
Great!!! except that we could not afford the ammunition to compete in the excercise..........
I think that we are going back to pre 2nd world war where we declared war on Germany and the had to think quick making guns and planes out of wood to fool the enemy as we didn't have the resources

Makes you think where we are heading!

were the laughing stockof the un ,best in the world what are we supposed to do next dig out the long bows,sa80 costs millions why did we get rid of the 7.62 at least you could be sure of dropping the buggers at 6/700 metrs maggie wanted to get rid of the gimmpy !!!why ?****** off the sa80 support weapon and the yank m60,think they were just running us down and tying our hands behind our backs for government contracts

Originally posted by depoix
were the laughing stockof the un ,best in the world what are we supposed to do next dig out the long bows,sa80 costs millions why did we get rid of the 7.62 at least you could be sure of dropping the buggers at 6/700 metrs maggie wanted to get rid of the gimmpy !!!why ?****** off the sa80 support weapon and the yank m60,think they were just running us down and tying our hands behind our backs for government contracts
WE have been in this position for a long time now.....But we are forced to adhere to what we are ordered to do.....
Never in the British armed forces has moral been at this ebb....
I heard a C.O on radio state that if one was to refuse to go to war at a given place or conflict then that person would not have to...In the same breath..A soldier that refused to go to Iraq was found guilty of misconduct and is subsequently being araigned for court marshal.
My thing here is that all veterans are subject to call up untill they reach the age of 55........if called up for a war that we do not agree to...do we not have the right to say ....we do not want to participate in this one??
The fact is...no...You do as you are told as a soldier ..get given your pea shooter without peas and told to get on with it!
The people at home sit there and go HMMMM yes ok another soldier killed..
Do the people here not realise that the cost of one soldiers life...is to me worth a thousand of these arrogant armchair idiots that sit and coast through wars that they agree to but no one else does.

I am here to protect my family and my country.........And to fight alongside my comrades at arms
for justice and the British way of life.

If that is threatened in any way I will personally be there to stop the cancer that grows within our country without opposition from the very people that the forces are here to protect.

What would prefer? US Army? Tooled up to the nines yet clueless.
"All the gear and no idea".

The british infantrymans greatest assett has always been is ability to improvise, adapt and overcome.

The only reason the moral is at a low ebb is the fact that the military way of life and recreational drug taking are in conflict.

Originally posted by kilauea
What would prefer? US Army? Tooled up to the nines yet clueless.
"All the gear and no idea".

The british infantrymans greatest assett has always been is ability to improvise, adapt and overcome.

The only reason the moral is at a low ebb is the fact that the military way of life and recreational drug taking are in conflict.

To have the arms and technology that the US have would be an advantage over improvisation.


Your comment regarding recreational drug taking is unfounded as even after taking leave, drugs testing is carried out .
The army takes a serious view when it comes to the taking of any drugs.

It is a pity that there are comments made that insult the integrity of the armed forces..........I do hope that they bring back National Service where they can then send to war with a bow and arrow or a baseball bat to protect themselves with.

Why do we need such a large force ? Apart from helping out America. I did 15 yrs in the RAF and I now think we do not need such a large force, but if we do they must be given all the equipment and the best weapons and support available.This should be decided by the top brass not politicians. A small defence force is what we need, who is likely to attack us?France,America,any terrorist group,concentrate on looking after our own country.

Originally posted by DerekH
To have the arms and technology that the US have would be an advantage over improvisation.


Your comment regarding recreational drug taking is unfounded as even after taking leave, drugs testing is carried out .
The army takes a serious view when it comes to the taking of any drugs.

It is a pity that there are comments made that insult the integrity of the armed forces..........I do hope that they bring back National Service where they can then send to war with a bow and arrow or a baseball bat to protect themselves with.

My comments are made from personal experience as I was in the forces when compulsory drug taking was introduced. I personally observed the exodus from mine and other battalions as the first "examples" were made. The fact is young people take recreational drugs - the stats are out there if you care to look. So when they army says - as it did - if we find out any soldier has so much as smoked canabis, he will be sent to colchester for a fun holiday and then kicked out. What do you think DID happen?

Originally posted by matsalleh
Why do we need such a large force ? Apart from helping out America. I did 15 yrs in the RAF and I now think we do not need such a large force,

perhaps look at recent figures of so called 'friendly fire' :rant:

I don't much pay attention to the news on the war, but I did catch something about the US wanting more British troups to secure an area of Iraq after more bombing.
They showed a map of Iraq and where the american and British forces are...according to the map there are no particular problems where the British are...wonder why?

Moon

I don`t understand that reply Moon Maiden.

don't worry about it - the last bit is my waffle

Perhaps we need such large numbers because our so called allies keep shooting our lads in friendly fire incidents?

Moon

I see, but if we had less there would be less to shoot at. Another good reason?

Originally posted by matsalleh
I see, but if we had less there would be less to shoot at. Another good reason?
Why would we need a larger force than the present one?
If we had civil unrest tomorrow, who would be able to control it? the police?
The numbers have dwindled since the cold war and I think a good estimate of 140 000 troops over all inluding TA.... is what we have in the services today.

Not realy a good number considering that a country with over 55 million people is protected by so few.

I agree there seems to be a new world order.....but surely self preservation is priority for any country!

As you rightly said in a previous post..I for one never had anything to do with drugs of any kind and did not see any where I was.

Originally posted by DerekH

As you rightly said in a previous post..I for one never had anything to do with drugs of any kind and did not see any where I was.

You wouldn't really - it was only prevelant in the junior ranks. If you cast your mind back you will remember the were several "scandals" involving drug use amongst our troops in ulster. They were true - I know the unit and individuals involved in one of those stories.

To be fair - the Army had the right attitude, you can't have people handling live ammo while possibly under the influence of some narcotic. And to be fair to those soldiers who did partake, nearly all of them left when compulsory testing came in. So both sides acted properly, but that still left a huge chunk out of the numbers of private soldiers and other junior ranks in the army (and no doubt the other services).

Its just an unfortunate incompatibility between modern society and the army way of life.

Originally posted by depoix
were the laughing stockof the un ,best in the world what are we supposed to do next dig out the long bows,sa80 costs millions why did we get rid of the 7.62 at least you could be sure of dropping the buggers at 6/700 metrs maggie wanted to get rid of the gimmpy !!!why ?****** off the sa80 support weapon and the yank m60,think they were just running us down and tying our hands behind our backs for government contracts

I don't know if any of you will agree but I have always thought that the Belgian FN rifle was a good gun to have...if you could get the bullets to fire from it.
In Africa....we used a derivative of the FN called the R5......7.62mm that never jammed.
However!.....If we came across any AK47's.......The R5 went missing.....
If the Russians did one good thing it was make a weapon that was able to take the knocks and dirt.

Regarding Hand guns...I preferred the 9mm Tangfolio Guisseppi or Targa as it was known........It was made for use with 2 calibers....7.65 and 9mm.
It had interchangable barrels and magazines.

I'll start locally and work outwards on this one.
I thought coming back to Sheffield after 15 years away would be great seeing old friends and to carry on a peaceful life I'd hoped we'd been working towards.
Instead when I moved into my new house in Tinsley, I was greeted with "This is my road you white b****ard and dont you forget it" by some teenage pakistani. Forget Iraq, we need to concentrate on the home front first. Its safer in Belfast than Sheffield.

The major garrisons are miles away from Sheffield and its hard for local ex forces people to get together. The general opinion at the fellowship is that all we can do is our best even though the generation in power now are making a complete f*** up for the next. Losing the 4 army battalions and relying on more complex technology means that the grunts are a dying breed. Only the grunts can win battles and so wars. The more complex the equipment becomes the more qualified the soldiers need to be, but how can they be soldiers if they need to spend years in training to do their technical skill.

Great you have a degree in electrical engineering and whoops you break your ankle on the first hurdle on the assault course. Bye bye heres your pension.

The TA seem to be happy increasing their numbers but weren't so thrilled when it turned out during security checks they were being infiltrated by Al-Qaeda.(Sunday Times page 8)

The ideal Army of the future is pensioners. Anyone over the retirement age will automatically win a place on the front line along with a large flag. Thats government thinking.

Originally posted by Hadron
I'll start locally and work outwards on this one.
I thought coming back to Sheffield after 15 years away would be great seeing old friends and to carry on a peaceful life I'd hoped we'd been working towards.
Instead when I moved into my new house in Tinsley, I was greeted with "This is my road you white b****ard and dont you forget it" by some teenage pakistani. Forget Iraq, we need to concentrate on the home front first. Its safer in Belfast than Sheffield.

The major garrisons are miles away from Sheffield and its hard for local ex forces people to get together. The general opinion at the fellowship is that all we can do is our best even though the generation in power now are making a complete f*** up for the next. Losing the 4 army battalions and relying on more complex technology means that the grunts are a dying breed. Only the grunts can win battles and so wars. The more complex the equipment becomes the more qualified the soldiers need to be, but how can they be soldiers if they need to spend years in training to do their technical skill.

Great you have a degree in electrical engineering and whoops you brake your ankle on the first hurdle on the assault course. Bye bye heres your pension.

The TA seem to be happy increasing their numbers but weren't so thrilled when it turned out during security checks they were being infiltrated by Al-Qaeda.(Sunday Times page 8)

The ideal Army of the future is pensioners. Anyone over the retirement age will automatically win a place on the front line along with a large flag. Thats government thinking.

When I arrived home after 25 years, I was called a foreign B..Stard!...My family persecuted and had racial abuse slung at us.....Nice to say I am a white Brit born and bred, with an ancestral history that goes back hundreds of years..

I would like to make a suggestion that all ex combatants get together in Sheffield and try to devise a way to go forward....without being militant...lol (gonna be a hard one)

My Brother lives in Tinsley and I have seen how the area has been taken over.
I agree with you that iraq is not the problem nor our concern.....Our own back yard needs sorting out first!.

As I said in another thread......THe only reason we have had no suicide bombing here as yet is that they all live here and don't want to s***t on their own doorsteps in case they get to lose their benefits.

I have to retract the above statement here as I would be considered racist!

I help out and get together with older ex forces people now at the fellowship and belong to 227 Moorgate Mess in Rotherham. We are meeting on Wednesday night at 7.30. Its a rule that we are not allowed to advertise just word of mouth so im just talking to you now and no one else.

Its great to talk to them but still feel a bit uncomfortable with the old WW2 songs, not got the words right yet. The sarnies and a few pints go down well.

One of the old fellas passed away last month and he worked at Bletchley Park so you can imagine some of the stories.

Not so sure about meetings for the 20-40 year olds maybe contact SSAFA (http://www.ssafa.org.uk/) about local groups.

Originally posted by Hadron
I help out and get together with older ex forces people now at the fellowship and belong to 227 Moorgate Mess in Rotherham. We are meeting on Wednesday night at 7.30. Its a rule that we are not allowed to advertise just word of mouth so im just talking to you now and no one else.

Its great to talk to them but still feel a bit uncomfortable with the old WW2 songs, not got the words right yet. The sarnies and a few pints go down well.

One of the old fellas passed away last month and he worked at Bletchley Park so you can imagine some of the stories.

Not so sure about meetings for the 20-40 year olds maybe contact SSAFA (http://www.ssafa.org.uk/) about local groups.
Thanks for the info, I am within the 40 to 60 age group so will try to get around there although I am away untill Thursday I will try for next week.
I used to sing the old WW2 songs at school although ask me to do so now and I probably would also have problems with the words.

Back to the Thread.
New developments regarding the US appeal for more British troops to help them out in Bagdad has somewhat confused me.
The last I heard was that since the war was "öfficially over" we were there at the request of the new Iraqi governing body as a peace keeping force untill they have their own forces back in operation.

This new development if allowed to happen would mean that the US would be controlling our troops, This would be a very dangerouse position for our troops to be in!

The Yanks have never been any good at planning or the execution of any operations that they have carried out.
Their arrogance and gungho approach costs loss of life to all around them.

If my memory serves me right, In the 1st Gulf war where we fought side by side with the Yanks, our troops paid the Ultimate price!
We lost more soldiers through Yank incompetence than we have lost fighting the enemy in both conflicts.

Again!!! we are used for political ends as the US and UK elections
draw nearer...

We should get out of Iraq and let our boys get home for Christmas instead of being used as puppets for the politicians.

lions led by donkeys,still rings true after all these years,i remember watching only fools and horses once and grandad came out with the best one liner ive ever heard......." del we was promised homes fit for heroes all we got was heroes fit for homes ".....bye the bye i see a couple of fussiliers are bieng charged with killing an insurgent while directing fire to protect their sergeant...........have any usa pilots ever been tried and convicted for killing our troops with FRIENDLY FIRE,or are they imune from this or other war crimes ? if i recall correctly this happened quite a bit in gulf 1 and lots of times in korea........why dont we see the full news from iraq on tv,,,,,,i read JEFF RENSE and get all the latest info that the censered news in uk cant/wont tell us.........also have we developed into a culture that no longer watch the news because its the same old thing every day.....somew times i think a lot of the people out there .....
have forgot about a lot of the people out there .. re tangfolio wasnt that made in point 25

Just heard on news that 650 members of The Black Watch are ready to move up to assist yanks.

No one knows if they'll be under yank command!

If they are, God help them! Logic dictates that the yanks should be under OUR command for the sake of professionalism, seniority and common sense.

Let's hope the lads show them how it's done as usual. Let's hope the yanks identify the target for a change!

Either way, best of luck to them, and wish them a safe return:thumbsup:

Once the body bags start coming back, Blair may be forced to retire to his £3.6 million sunset home and write his memoirs, sooner than he anticipated. :shakes:

Here is something we can agree on. Of the fusiliers mentioned (my old unit), it was our 3rd battalion that were mowed down by a US "tank-buster" in the gulf. It took 2 passes over the convoy of warriors opening up on the clearly marked vehicals on both occasions.

The thought of any of my old comrades under US command in that hell-hole makes me mad (and many of them are still in the regiment).

I have never wished anything such before in my life but I sincerly wish Mr Blairs heart condition is worse than he thinks and it rids the world of his treachery sooner than later.

Originally posted by Lickszz
Once the body bags start coming back, Blair may be forced to retire to his £3.6 million sunset home and write his memoirs, sooner than he anticipated. :shakes:
I did hear that if Blair is ousted he has a good career speaking crap in the USA for a few million Dollars.

I am happy to see that a lot of MP's are against the deployment of our troops into the triangle.
Lets hope that they get their way in a commons vote....and stop this!
However! I can't see Blair allowing the vote to go ahead as his agenda is to please the US anyway he can.


The Tangfolio side arm! I don't recall if they brought it out with the caliber .25.
I know that the 32 and 38 were widely used.

If our troops are to go to the triangle......May they return safely.

The Yanks must be in one helluva situation to ask that our boys to get them out of the crap, or could it be that we are being setup as cannon fodder to be used for some diabolical plan that some US general has dreamed up.