A message to all the people who made up the rush hour traffic this evening:

Thank you for creating this lovely layer of smog that's trapped under the low cloud.

I really like breathing traffic fumes when I'm walking home, and I really like to be able to smell them when I'm in my room with the window open even though I don't live near any main roads.

Thank you all. Thank you very much, each and every one of you.

All the best.

Ptigga

Any time. Glad to be of service :thumbsup:

well think the time has come to ban all drivers who live in council houses LOL

Originally posted by Robbie_Lovin
well think the time has come to ban all drivers who live in council houses LOL

Joking aside; I don't think that they are part of the problem. It's the people who have 9-5 jobs and drive that contribute to the rush hour traffic.

Of course, now I'm stereotyping and you may all flame me.

Dear Pedestrians,

Thank you for my pleasant drive home this evening. Not only do you arrive at a crossing and press the button for the green man to guide you safely across the street you even depress that little metal button when the roads are clear but continue to walk across the street and leave motorists such as myself waiting at traffic lights while you are already on your merry way.

Also, did I forget to mention that it is extremely dangerous to walk along the road with traffic flowing behind you as you don't often have the patience to wait for other people to go by you on the pavement when space is often limited.

As a token of my appreciation I enclose this smog just for you.

Thank you eternally for all your help.

I can feel this thread turning into something about buses ...

... we haven't had one for AGES!!!

Originally posted by ptigga
Joking aside; I don't think that they are part of the problem. It's the people who have 9-5 jobs and drive that contribute to the rush hour traffic.

Of course, now I'm stereotyping and you may all flame me.

You are stereotyping, I have a 7-3.30 job, so I completely miss rush hour :P

I can't really see any smog under the clouds outta my window. But I'd like to say thanks also. :)

Dear Car Owners,
You should all go buy skateboards for short journeys. You'd look much cooler then, your boss would envy your coolness as you arrived every morning to work. And you wouldn't have to worry about killing anyone whilst in transit. It would also stop the Hippies moaning.

nice one chaps, kickflips all round tommorow morning.

I love smog, it makes me feel alive!

if I could have it on my cornflakes in the morning I would.

More smog please!

Idea....... let's all get rid of our cars, all start using buses, most of us arrive late for work because there aren't enough buses, complain, get more buses, walk through such places as Haymarket, High Street and Pinstone Street, then see if the smog has lessened or increased. Place your bets now please.

erm...just where exactly is this 'smog' located? cant say I have encountered any layers of smog either in town or on the way in and out of town.....is it bright yellow like Los Angelos Smog, or more pea green/grey like good old London smog of the 1950's....

It's nice to know that my efforts as a car driver have been appreciated, for as much as I love being dictated to by the bus service as to when and where I shall be going to work and going home I could never give up my car for as long as there are those that continue to thank me.
You could always wear a mask?

Originally posted by ptigga
A message to all the people who made up the rush hour traffic this evening:

Thank you for creating this lovely layer of smog that's trapped under the low cloud.

I really like breathing traffic fumes when I'm walking home, and I really like to be able to smell them when I'm in my room with the window open even though I don't live near any main roads.

Thank you all. Thank you very much, each and every one of you.

All the best.

Ptigga

Ah your only jealous cos you havent got a car.

There was me all nice n warm, listening to good music (Stevie Wonder) smoking a tab and laughing at the poor skanks who had to walk in the rain.

didnt the rain clear the fog ?

nah ya see im a big fan of smog - it really doesnt get the recognition it deserves. Therefore I'm starting my new charity - The S.A.S - Smog Awareness Society

i love the smell of fog in the mornings......whats that noise.?..hell its fifty helicopters all playing wagner !!!!

I am now a big fan of Deejay - what a comeback!!!

I would apologise for driving at around 9am and 5pm but if I don't drive at these times then I don't get to work. If I don't get to work then, for some odd reason that I wish I understood, my boss doesn't pay me. If he doesn't pay me then I run low on the old cash front and have to live on the streets, breathing in more smog than the amount that floats in through your window.

I trust, as you are thanking the drivers, that you are also thanking the clouds for forcing the smog through the gap in your wall sponsored by Safestyle??:suspect:

Originally posted by goldenfleece
erm...just where exactly is this 'smog' located? cant say I have encountered any layers of smog either in town or on the way in and out of town.....is it bright yellow like Los Angelos Smog, or more pea green/grey like good old London smog of the 1950's....

Don't worry it is there. It is plainly visible if you are driving into Sheffield from a distance. it is more of the yellowy, nicotine stain colour than the grren one

Originally posted by Orko
I am now a big fan of Deejay - what a comeback!!!


You mean you weren't before :heyhey:

Originally posted by ptigga
A message to all the people who made up the rush hour traffic this evening:

Thank you for creating this lovely layer of smog that's trapped under the low cloud.

I really like breathing traffic fumes when I'm walking home, and I really like to be able to smell them when I'm in my room with the window open even though I don't live near any main roads.

Thank you all. Thank you very much, each and every one of you.

All the best.

Ptigga

I'm a pedestrian too and I can tell you that you'll get nowhere with this, car polution is a totaly acceptable and unavoidable part of modern life, aparantly.

Some of the smug replies to your posting just prove that car drivers are the most selfish b**stards around and will quite happily destroy the atmosphere and force inocent men, women and children to breath toxic chemicals.

I find it most amusing that some of the car drivers who have replied to you are probably the same people who want a public smoking ban as it's totaly unfair for other people to force them to breath their smoke.

More tax on petrol I say, lots more.

Originally posted by nick2
I'm a pedestrian too and I can tell you that you'll get nowhere with this, car polution is a totaly acceptable and unavoidable part of modern life, aparantly.

Some of the smug replies to your posting just prove that car drivers are the most selfish b**stards around and will quite happily destroy the atmosphere and force inocent men, women and children to breath toxic chemicals.

I find it most amusing that some of the car drivers who have replied to you are probably the same people who want a public smoking ban as it's totaly unfair for other people to force them to breath their smoke.

More tax on petrol I say, lots more.

Give it a rest sunshine, people can easily live without smoking.. How can people live without transport?

Makes me laugh at the amount of people that post without letting the little cog's in their air-filled brains start ticking. :loopy:

Originally posted by GazB
Give it a rest sunshine, people can easily live without smoking.. How can people live without transport?

Makes me laugh at the amount of people that post without letting the little cog's in their air-filled brains start ticking. :loopy:

Heard it all before, "I can't live without my car, it's a 10 minute walk to work", most people choose to drive, they have alternatives, therefore what car drivers inflict on pedestrians is no different from what smokers inflict on non-smokers.

Originally posted by nick2
Heard it all before, "I can't live without my car, it's a 10 minute walk to work".

Actually, it's more like a 1 hour walk to work for me, and my last job would be roughly 4 hours. I guess I should make that sacrifice to please people like you, nick2.

:roll:

Originally posted by GazB
Give it a rest sunshine, people can easily live without smoking.. How can people live without transport?



Just humour me please GazB. Where do you live? Where do you work? How long is your commute, and how do you get there?

Originally posted by GazB
Actually, it's more like a 1 hour walk to work for me, and my last job would be roughly 4 hours. I guess I should make that sacrifice to please people like you, nick2.

:roll:

No, not me, the general public and the environment that you will be leaving for you kids.

Originally posted by ptigga
Just humour me please GazB. Where do you live? Where do you work? How long is your commute, and how do you get there?

In the car it takes me between 25 and 35 minutes to get to work, and between 35 and 45 minutes to get home.

Forgive me if I'm a little cautious about telling someone who would probably slash my tyres to prevent me from driving, where I live and work.

[i]Forgive me if I'm a little cautious about telling someone who would probably slash my tyres to prevent me from driving, where I live and work. [/B]


Did the nasty pedestrian scare you ?
Quick wind-up the windows.

Whoever started this thread, why not stop moaning about the car owners and redirect your miserable existence to targeting the bus companies instead. The average new car emissions are minimal in comparison. Before you start I CYCLE to work which involves nearly choking on Bus fumes for the whole journey. I must add that I also own a car with a 24v V6 engine which DRINKS petrol which I use to potter about and to go shopping. :D

Slightly separate issue but all these walkers, the gaiter wearing, Gortex owning, folding stick buying, flask carrying, GPS watch owning Muppets. They DRIVE out into the countryside in their big 4x4's, sit in then for an hour eating salmon and cucumber sandwiches with the engine running, then stick their gaiters on and walk for an hour then DRIVE back! Have a go at them while your at it.

Originally posted by ptigga
A message to all the people who made up the rush hour traffic this evening:

Thank you for creating this lovely layer of smog that's trapped under the low cloud.

I really like breathing traffic fumes when I'm walking home, and I really like to be able to smell them when I'm in my room with the window open even though I don't live near any main roads.

Thank you all. Thank you very much, each and every one of you.

All the best.

Ptigga

Looks like cloud and drizzle to me!!!

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
Slightly separate issue but all these walkers, the gaiter wearing, Gortex owning, folding stick buying, flask carrying, GPS watch owning Muppets. They DRIVE out into the countryside in their big 4x4's, sit in then for an hour eating salmon and cucumber sandwiches with the engine running, then stick their gaiters on and walk for an hour then DRIVE back! Have a go at them while your at it.

Even more anoying is when you get to somewhere like Castleton to find it's like Ecclesall Road in the rush hour.

the majority of people do not enjoy sitting in traffic in the morning waiting to get to work, so given a viable option that didn't take significantly longer they'd probably take it.
Personally my commute is about 2.5 hrs at the moment, you can add at least an hour each way if i try to use public transport, and walking would probably take me about a week.

hehe I'm learning to drive, is this what you get from nasty pedestrians? :P :rolleyes:

you youngsters do not know what real smog is.
wait til you canot see your hand in front of you. yelllow haze round the lamplights and when home nostrils full of soot

Originally posted by hazel
you youngsters do not know what real smog is.
wait til you canot see your hand in front of you. yelllow haze round the lamplights and when home nostrils full of soot

Not a good idea to stick your head down the chimney love.

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
I also own a car with a 24v V6 engine which DRINKS petrol which I use to potter about and to go shopping. :D


Its a lush car, i'll vouch for that. :)

I work in Meadowhall and live about 4 miles away. I could walk to the train station, get a day ticket and get the train back, but I don't want to.

Driving means I wont get soaked walking to/from the stations and means I can set off when I like and not when the train company dictates. Trains are frequent enough in the day, but when you finish work at 9 or 10pm, the're far less frequent and the last thing I want is to be freezing my testes off waiting for a rickety one-carriage-wonder that smells of urine that will only take me part of the way home.

My lodger has a job in leeds, he tried the train for 2 weeks, it's a joke, he now drives.. also a nightmare but better than the train.

What do you mean us drivers don't care about what you breathe in, of couse we do :) We breathe it in too! It is just me, or do some other drivers get a buzz from filling up their fuel tanks? It smells lovely! Yum..!

I can't wait until I can afford to have a nice big old 5.0ltr Jag which does 8MPG to swan around in :) Gotta love those fumes!

Broooooom!

The day that buses go FROM where I want TO where I want at a time suiting me, providing me with decent comfort, space, safety and my own stereo, which I can play as loud as I like without annoying others for a competitive price i the day I will sell my car.

Sitting on an smelly iron bench with no seatbelts, no space, no luxuries and a dangerous driver is not my preferred mthod of travel thankyou very much!

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
It is just me, or do some other drivers get a buzz from filling up their fuel tanks? It smells lovely! Yum..!

lol I know what you mean, the smell of fuel is yummy - makes the wallet-emptying a bit more bearable :D

Well done motorists in defending your rights.
Concentration of atmospheric Carbon Dioxide accelerating, ice caps losing 10 metres depth per year. Of course you won't be here in 100years when London and New York are under water so it doesn't really matter does it?
More immediately, the huge rise in childhood asthma doesn't seem to concern motorists either. Just because a photochemical smog is largely invisible it doesn't mean it's any less harmful than a good old fashioned, coal-fired pea souper.

no one said that environmental harm was acceptable, but no one offered a viable alternative for most of the car drivers.
Given that virgins trains are less fuel efficient than even jet aircraft and that society could not function as it is withour personal transport what do you propose?

Maybe the government should incentivise alternative fuels a little bit more and prod the car companies into getting on with producing alternative fuel vehicles.

Originally posted by Ned Ludd
Well done motorists in defending your rights.
Concentration of atmospheric Carbon Dioxide accelerating, ice caps losing 10 metres depth per year. Of course you won't be here in 100years when London and New York are under water so it doesn't really matter does it?
More immediately, the huge rise in childhood asthma doesn't seem to concern motorists either. Just because a photochemical smog is largely invisible it doesn't mean it's any less harmful than a good old fashioned, coal-fired pea souper.

The cars in this country have little bearing, the pollution from air travel, what about the deforestation of the rain forests, fertilizers in our food and our rivers, female hormones changing the sex of fish, polluted ground water, Teflon on our pans. WE ARE ALL DOOMED. might as well buy a big car and have some fun.:D

I wonder how private car owners will cope once they start to get progressively removed from the roads in order to make room for business traffic?. I'm talking about congestion charges. Only the rich will have enough money to drive a car and everyone else will have to put up with poor public transport, pavements littered with dog **** and no cycle lanes.

u mean in city centres presumably?
most likely it will just move cars and thus congestion to a different place.

I guess thought that it will come down to the utility cost that you assign to your time and how much time driving through town rather than an alternative (be that public transport or an alternative route) will save.
Personally my time is at a premium, so i've no doubt that i'd pay the charge.

More tax on petrol I say, lots more. [/B][/QUOTE] :loopy:

do you realise an increase would be detremental to us all, increase on motoring duties are nearly always passed on to the consumer so not only are we paying tax on petrol but additional increased costs on all other ammenities :rant:

Quote from nick2 - "Some of the smug replies to your posting just prove that car drivers are the most selfish b**stards around and will quite happily destroy the atmosphere and force inocent men, women and children to breath toxic chemicals."

In case my previous comment is being taken by Nick2 as smug and selfish, I would like to point out that I was offering a shallow response to the equally shallow comments made in the very first place by ptigga.

I am a driver, and my work is such that I need my 1.1 engined car (in terms of the location of my workplace and the travel I carry out during the working day) - public transport will never provide an alternative solution to that. I'm not proud of the contribution I am making to the poor atmosphere around the region but at the moment I have no other option when other people who would happily have my job wouldn't think for a second about the effect vehicles have on the environment.

Decreasing vehicle use is something that needs to be changed on a country-wide (if not world-wide) social scale: it's all very well compalining about the effects but noting on a website (and we're talking about a site with the catchment area of Sheffield web users) about the amount of dirty air coming in through your window is going to acheive very little.

"Some of the smug replies to your posting just prove that car drivers are the most selfish b**stards around and will quite happily destroy the atmosphere and force inocent men, women and children to breath toxic chemicals."

...bit of a generalisation eh Nick? How do "smug replies" on a localised internet messageboard "prove" that "car drivers are the most selfish b**stards around and will quite happily destroy the atmosphere and force inocent men, women and children to breath toxic chemicals."?

Originally posted by fyybj
"Some of the smug replies to your posting just prove that car drivers are the most selfish b**stards around and will quite happily destroy the atmosphere and force inocent men, women and children to breath toxic chemicals."

...bit of a generalisation eh Nick? How do "smug replies" on a localised internet messageboard "prove" that "car drivers are the most selfish b**stards around and will quite happily destroy the atmosphere and force inocent men, women and children to breath toxic chemicals."?

Haven't you noticed that sweeping generalisations are the order of the day around here ?

I have, yes, and a lot of knee jerking too. You haven't answered my question though...

;)

Ok maybe it doesn't prove it.

Originally posted by nick2
Ok maybe it doesn't prove it.

But comments like "I love smog it's great, I laugh as the pedestrians have asthma attacks at the side of the road" hardly proves they are the most caring people either.

Very true, and comments such as that make people look like morons, car drivers or not ;).

I actually agree in part with what you we're saying, a lot of car drivers need to be more responsible in regards to the impact they have on the environment. Perhaps this is due to selfishness and ignorance on their part, perhaps it's because the information isn't readily availlable to car owners OR they choose to ignore it.

However, many car drivers are fully aware of the damage that cars do and make conscientious decisions on the car they drive and how they drive it. At one end of the scale we have people who own small hatchbacks who drive only when necessary and share car pools with colleagues, at the other end we have people who own HUGE 4v4s, drive EVERYWHERE and are usually driving alone. This type of car owner is contributing far more to pollution than the more considerate of us, but what's the solution?

Originally posted by fyybj
Very true, and comments such as that make people look like morons, car drivers or not ;).

I actually agree in part with what you we're saying, a lot of car drivers need to be more responsible in regards to the impact they have on the environment. Perhaps this is due to selfishness and ignorance on their part, perhaps it's because the information isn't readily availlable to car owners OR they choose to ignore it.

However, many car drivers are fully aware of the damage that cars do and make conscientious decisions on the car they drive and how they drive it. At one end of the scale we have people who own small hatchbacks who drive only when necessary and share car pools with colleagues, at the other end we have people who own HUGE 4v4s, drive EVERYWHERE and are usually driving alone. This type of car owner is contributing far more to pollution than the more considerate of us, but what's the solution?

I guess to encourage people to share cars, I doubt a car pool lane would work here like it does in the US, we can't even manage to make a bus lane work.

Like you said you don't need a huge 4x4 to go to Sainsburys for the weekly shop, but if you want to own one thats fine, but don't try to make out that the polution you create is unavoidable. And I'm sure parents are still capable of walking their kids to school, walking is not a still you forget from lack of practice.

My main concern is not for now, but for the future.

Mine too, especially at the rate that SUVs and 4x4s are increasing in numbers. Maybe if the government were to release information to the public regarding the consequences that running these vehicles has on our environment both now and in the future, then the numbers would reduce. Wishful thinking eh?

There are engines available which will operate quite easily with more eco friendly fuels than petrol/diesel.However,the people who own the oil companies,(e.g. the ones who forced the invasion of Iraq to get their hands on the oil), will not allow production of these eco friendly engines to go ahead whilever there is one ounce of profit to be made from crude oil extraction. Don`t blame the motorist for the dirt in your nostrils.Blame the government and their ministers who enjoy their oil profits and will not do anything until the oilwells run dry and they can find some other fuel to rip us all off with.

There are already alternative fuelled cars in production and on our roads right now, so I don't think it's a case of the government not allowing this type of production to happen.
However, the government should be doing far more than it already is to promote and further the research and use of alternative fuels. Engine conversions are not cheap and people are not aware of whether they offer much benefit to them. While oil and the motor industry remain big business and while there is a demand for such transport, this isn't going to happen. The fact remains that certain people will still want to drive around in huge cars consuming as much fossil fuel as they see fit.

Originally posted by fyybj
...at the other end [of the scale] we have people who own HUGE 4v4s, drive EVERYWHERE and are usually driving alone. This type of car owner is contributing far more to pollution than the more considerate of us, but what's the solution?

France have a good solution. 4x4 buyers pay the government an extra tax when they buy a 4x4. The money collected goes into a pot. At the lower end of the scale customers who buy 1.1L cars and similar are awarded a chunk of money out of the pot that the 4x4 customers payed into.

The scheme was set up by the government to provide an incentive to drive economic cars; and as a disincentive to buy gas-guzzling 4x4s.

Guardian Story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1245187,00.html

I think that this scheme would work quite well in this country.

Makes a lot of sense, although it could be too little too late.

Originally posted by ptigga
France have a good solution. 4x4 buyers pay the government an extra tax when they buy a 4x4. The money collected goes into a pot. At the lower end of the scale customers who buy 1.1L cars and similar are awarded a chunk of money out of the pot that the 4x4 customers payed into.

The scheme was set up by the government to provide an incentive to drive economic cars; and as a disincentive to buy gas-guzzling 4x4s.

Guardian Story: http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1245187,00.html

I think that this scheme would work quite well in this country.

We have a similar system for new cars here and always have done. New cars are taxed according to the CO2 emissions they produce, so a new Renault Clio 1.2 is likely to pollute more than a Range Rover.

Previously, the tax was based on engine size, so again Mr Clio man will pay less than Range Rover man. Its a fair way of doing it though maybe the charges could be tweaked a bit at the bad end of the scale. Then we might actually see the odd road here in Sheffield being resurfaced for a change!

I drive a 1.1

I think you've confused the company car tax cost with road fund car tax.
One is paid every month by reducing your tax allowance, the other is paid once every 6 months or 12 months at the post office.

Originally posted by Cyclone
I think you've confused the company car tax cost with road fund car tax.
One is paid every month by reducing your tax allowance, the other is paid once every 6 months or 12 months at the post office.

I don;t think they pay road fund tax in france which is why I draw that comparison, I wasnt getting company car tax confused with the other :)

Surely the culprits are not the innocent car drivers, who clearly need reliable transport, but the OIL companies who sqaush any new inventions that might provide us with a suitable greener alternative to the petrol engine.

Personal vehicle based transport would not be a problem if it was powered by a cheap, reliable non-polluting energy source, but this will not hapen while there is till dirty black oil to be dug out of the grtound in poor exploited countrues for vast amounts of money.

Isn't the world f*****d up?

Originally posted by tinkerbell
Surely the culprits are not the innocent car drivers, who clearly need reliable transport, but the OIL companies who sqaush any new inventions that might provide us with a suitable greener alternative to the petrol engine.

Personal vehicle based transport would not be a problem if it was powered by a cheap, reliable non-polluting energy source, but this will not hapen while there is till dirty black oil to be dug out of the grtound in poor exploited countrues for vast amounts of money.

Isn't the world f*****d up?

No, the culprits are the consumers. The consumers pollute, and they choose how much they pollute. There may not be much choice but there is a choice. Stop shirking and take responsibility for your own actions.

If it was purely the oil companies to blame then presumably all the blameless drivers would be driving around in 1.1L cars instead of 4x4s and sports cars and there would be a lot more people cycling.

Don't try to blame climate change on someone else. It's everybody's problem and everybody can reduce the polluttion that they cause.

Originally posted by ptigga
If it was purely the oil companies to blame then presumably all the blameless drivers would be driving around in 1.1L cars instead of 4x4s and sports cars and there would be a lot more people cycling.

Not around Sheffield there wouldnt, too many damn hills! when will the green do gooders realise that Sheffield and many other Northern towns / cities are not cycling terrain.

Originally posted by ptigga
Don't try to blame climate change on someone else. It's everybody's problem and everybody can reduce the polluttion that they cause.

Try telling that to the Americans.

Originally posted by Callassa
I have a DODGE MAGNUM 5.7 liters of throbbing ecstasy. 350 horses just panting away and ready to fly. All BLACK BABY, including window tints and iodized alloys.

I sugguest you have a chat to this guy

Originally posted by mega_monty
Not around Sheffield there wouldnt, too many damn hills! when will the green do gooders realise that Sheffield and many other Northern towns / cities are not cycling terrain.

Do you walk/drive around with your eyes closed? There are lots of cyclists in Sheffield. More often than not I'm one of them. You can't possibly tell me that you haven't seen a fair number of people cycling here. Sure we may noty have as many cyclists as flat places like York and Cambridge, but we do have a lot of cyclists.

[i]
Try telling that to the Americans.
[/B]
What, where? I don't see any Americans. Do try and stay on topic.

Originally posted by ptigga
Do you walk/drive around with your eyes closed? There are lots of cyclists in Sheffield. More often than not I'm one of them. You can't possibly tell me that you haven't seen a fair number of people cycling here. Sure we may noty have as many cyclists as flat places like York and Cambridge, but we do have a lot of cyclists.

Have lived in Sheffield all my life and I can say that I hav'nt seen masses of cyclists, but what do you call a fair number 2, 3 or 4 ? I see plenty of empty cycle tracks though! The cyclist I normally see are enthuiasts, the type that dont mind cycling up gradients like East Bank Road etc, getting soaked in the rain, been frozen in winter, risking their lives cycling through traffic in rush hour. The normal everyday Sheffield people in their mases (1000+ people), are unlikely to take cycling mostly due to the steep gradients and its not always practical.

Originally posted by ptigga
What, where? I don't see any Americans. Do try and stay on topic.

I am on topic, do try and pay attention to whats posted! You started the topic of cars polluting and you did say It's everybody's problem, so thats americans included.

America, gas guzzlers at the ready contribute to a vast amount of the worlds pollution, surely you're aware of this, until America signs up to and takes measures to reduce its pollution, your little cycle trips as a means of reducing pollution are a mere drop in the ocean, when it comes to saving the planet.

every drop counts though.

but a 1.1 super mini is not a practical car for everyone to drive. I have a relatively big car because i drive long distances, since i'm forced into it, i'll do it in comfort thanks.
My other half drives a much smaller car, although still a 1.4 as she does have to use the motorway and a 1.1 is not pleasant on the motorway.

we used to cycle a bit when we had time and the weather was reasonable. But i barely have time to turn around these days, so i can't spare the time it would take me to cycle to anywhere... the only short journey i often make is to the swimming baths anyway, and i couldn't possibly make it on time on my bike.

I'm not convinced about oil companies squashing alternate fuel ideas. They are in competition afterall, so the first one to market with a good idea would have a hell of an advantage over the others.

There doesn't need to more tax placed on petrol, we've seen that doesn't really make any difference.

I do use my car a lot as I have to go to Wakefield and Leeds Mon-Fri. I couldn't do this on the train because it would take me forever to get there. 40 mins to Sheffield city centre, another 40 mins on the train (then it'l probably be delayed) then another 30 min journey at the other end. No thanks, I'd rather drive up and down the M1 each day.

I do think the number of the cars on the road are getting ridicolous. There needs to be some sort of restriction to the numbers of cars on the road by either setting a limit per household or only putting so many new ones on the road each other. Extremes I know, but that's what it's going to take :(

which is fine for you as you already have a car, but not going to very popular with the next generation as they get jobs and find that there are no road spaces left for them so they can't buy a car.

Originally posted by jessycar
There doesn't need to more tax placed on petrol, we've seen that doesn't really make any difference.

I do use my car a lot as I have to go to Wakefield and Leeds Mon-Fri. I couldn't do this on the train because it would take me forever to get there. 40 mins to Sheffield city centre, another 40 mins on the train (then it'l probably be delayed) then another 30 min journey at the other end. No thanks, I'd rather drive up and down the M1 each day.

I do think the number of the cars on the road are getting ridicolous. There needs to be some sort of restriction to the numbers of cars on the road by either setting a limit per household or only putting so many new ones on the road each other. Extremes I know, but that's what it's going to take :(

Apologies in advance for the lengthy rant, but this thread has hit a raw nerve with me...

Despite all the financial, environmental, ethical, political and other arguments against it, I still love my car, and I would rather gouge out my eyes with rusty spoons than use slow, unreliable, uncomfortable, smelly public transport. Particularly buses; they are my pet hate as they are big and slow and get in the way of my small and (relatively) fast car! Personally, I'd rather walk or cycle from Ponds Forge to the top of Crookes in p***ing rain and howling wind than catch a bus.

People drive because they (quite reasonably) want to go where they want, when they want, and without having to share a seat with mouthy and aggressive townies, foul B.O.-ridden scrotes or an old granny who reeks of stale urine. Cars offer you your own private space where you can choose who accompanies you and listen to your own choice of music (as opposed to other people's walkmans/mobile phones/screaming brats).

And in response to the instigator of this thread (Ptiga?) - what ACTUALLY causes the lung problems that you describe are the particulate emissions from old-technology diesel engines...i.e. the ones fitted to those lovely buses that the anti-car lot love so much. One bus can pump out as much crap as 40 diesel cars (as modern diesel car engines employ highly-efficient common-rail injection technology and also have particulate filters to reduce emissions) yet buses almost always carry far less than 40 people at a time.
So, despite your whining, I'll continue to enjoy driving my car, and I can tolerate the odd traffic jam and the ridiculous expense of petrol, as the pleasures of driving a car more than make up for it. Although it's about bloody time that our shower-of-s***e Government got some kind of alternative-fuel strategy sorted. For example, although it's technically feasible to run diesel cars on vegetable oil and petrol cars on alcohol distilled from sugar beet, the same extortionate fuel tax that applies to petrol and diesel also applies to these renewable fuels. Hence, no company is willing to develop the conversion and distribution technology to put these fuels into mainstream use.

p.s. the idea of taxing the a**e off 4x4 drivers appeals greatly (especially if it would be reflected in a tax drop for my economical little 1.1 :D). 4x4's are completely unnecessary, dangerous, inefficient vehicles that very few people actually NEED. Farmers and country vets actually NEED four-wheel-drive and lots of ground clearance; school-run-mum doesn't, and should thus be forced from her 3-litre Shogun into a 1-litre Micra. I'm sick of being tailgated by arrogant 4x4 drivers (particularly BMW X5's, you must have to pass some kind of Tosser Test before you can buy one of those) who think they own the road; if one of those massive damn things hits my wee Punto, my remains will have to be removed from the wreckage with a pressure-washer while the 4x4 will suffer no more than a few scratches.

Right, until the government sees sense and makes me Transport Minister, that's me done!

To all the smart alec pedestrians ranting about car drivers.... well you can stick your rant right up your arse.
I will continue to use my car as is my right. I pay all the relevant taxes and insurances as I am supposed to. Until public transport can provide me with a comfortable , clean, safe environment to use at my discretion to carry 3 kids to schools and various other activities they take part in, cart my missus and £150 worth of ASDA food shopping door to door, then I'm afraid cars are here to stay.
I bet you don't complain when you get a taxi home from a night out on the lash, or turn down a lift if its ******* down with rain and you don't want to use your precious feet..do me a favour.
Hypocrites!!!!!!!
If you feel so strongly about being polluted whilst walking then wear a mask..simple as that.

Originally posted by Cyclone
which is fine for you as you already have a car, but not going to very popular with the next generation as they get jobs and find that there are no road spaces left for them so they can't buy a car.

I agree but we can't keep having more & more cars on the road. It has to end somewhere doesn't it?

Do you have any other sensible suggestions?

...cart my missus and £150 worth of ASDA food shopping door to door...

Wibbles, you live in Hillsborough so why to you need to go all the way out to Asda to do your shopping?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go, I merely point out that there is an alternative open to most people but it's seen as easier to just jump in the car. I'm as guilty of this as the next bloke.

Because its cheapest and I can..thats the beauty of choice. If I went to Morrisons to do the same shop I would still use the car. Its door to door. I don't see why I should go somwhere more expensive so I don't have to drive.

Originally posted by wibbles
....If you feel so strongly about being polluted whilst walking then wear a mask..simple as that.
So all the kiddies at school in Tinsley should wear oxygen masks in the playground every time pollution exceeds reccommended levels, so you can drive to Meadowhell in your air conditioned motor? Nice one!

Originally posted by wibbles
Because its cheapest and I can..thats the beauty of choice. If I went to Morrisons to do the same shop I would still use the car. Its door to door. I don't see why I should go somwhere more expensive so I don't have to drive.

Of course you have the right to choose. I just wonder if you'll be able to make that choice in 10 years time.

Originally posted by JonnyBoy
Apologies in advance for the lengthy rant, but this thread has hit a raw nerve with me...

Despite all the financial, environmental, ethical, political and other arguments against it, I still love my car, and I would rather gouge out my eyes with rusty spoons than use slow, unreliable, uncomfortable, smelly public transport. Particularly buses; they are my pet hate as they are big and slow and get in the way of my small and (relatively) fast car! Personally, I'd rather walk or cycle from Ponds Forge to the top of Crookes in p***ing rain and howling wind than catch a bus.

People drive because they (quite reasonably) want to go where they want, when they want, and without having to share a seat with mouthy and aggressive townies, foul B.O.-ridden scrotes or an old granny who reeks of stale urine. Cars offer you your own private space where you can choose who accompanies you and listen to your own choice of music (as opposed to other people's walkmans/mobile phones/screaming brats).

And in response to the instigator of this thread (Ptiga?) - what ACTUALLY causes the lung problems that you describe are the particulate emissions from old-technology diesel engines...i.e. the ones fitted to those lovely buses that the anti-car lot love so much. One bus can pump out as much crap as 40 diesel cars (as modern diesel car engines employ highly-efficient common-rail injection technology and also have particulate filters to reduce emissions) yet buses almost always carry far less than 40 people at a time.
So, despite your whining, I'll continue to enjoy driving my car, and I can tolerate the odd traffic jam and the ridiculous expense of petrol, as the pleasures of driving a car more than make up for it. Although it's about bloody time that our shower-of-s***e Government got some kind of alternative-fuel strategy sorted. For example, although it's technically feasible to run diesel cars on vegetable oil and petrol cars on alcohol distilled from sugar beet, the same extortionate fuel tax that applies to petrol and diesel also applies to these renewable fuels. Hence, no company is willing to develop the conversion and distribution technology to put these fuels into mainstream use.

p.s. the idea of taxing the a**e off 4x4 drivers appeals greatly (especially if it would be reflected in a tax drop for my economical little 1.1 :D). 4x4's are completely unnecessary, dangerous, inefficient vehicles that very few people actually NEED. Farmers and country vets actually NEED four-wheel-drive and lots of ground clearance; school-run-mum doesn't, and should thus be forced from her 3-litre Shogun into a 1-litre Micra. I'm sick of being tailgated by arrogant 4x4 drivers (particularly BMW X5's, you must have to pass some kind of Tosser Test before you can buy one of those) who think they own the road; if one of those massive damn things hits my wee Punto, my remains will have to be removed from the wreckage with a pressure-washer while the 4x4 will suffer no more than a few scratches.

Right, until the government sees sense and makes me Transport Minister, that's me done!

Well put, could NOT agree more. :)

My friend has just bought (today) a 2004 Daewoo Matiz 1.0 and the road tax for that is more than my N-reg Fiesta 1.1 - I would have thought that the Daewoo would be far less polluting than my car so it seems daft to charge more in tax. They are under different road tax systems though I suppose.

What we need here are some FACTS!

I can't be arsed searching myself, but maybe the 'ban the car' lobby might come up with some.

a) Measure the fuel consumption of buses serving ONE route on a normal week day (start to finish).

b) Measure the fuel consumption of ALL cars who's drivers live on that route over the same period.

c) Measure the emission of toxic gases (by volume) from the buses during this period.

d) Measure the emission of toxic gases (by volume) from the cars during this same period.

e) Equate fuel used, toxic gases emitted and persons transported to determine which form of transport carried most persons for the least pollution/fuel used in this one day period.

NB. This would include taxis, which are 'cars', and are running full whilst later buses are almost empty!:|

Lets not leave trains out of the equation either - they aren't exactly super fuel efficient themselves are they - according to Top Gear they are worse than buses.

Originally posted by wibbles
I will continue to use my car as is my right.

Mmm.. interesting assertion. Under what moral code is using a car your "right"?

I pay all the relevant taxes and insurances as I am supposed to.

Ahh the moral code of money, greed and putting one's self before the greater good maybe?

If you feel so strongly about being polluted whilst walking then wear a mask..simple as that.

Yep, confirmed.

Just trying to picture what Ptigga looks like,I bet he is the sort who brews his own beer rolls his own fags that stink like horse ****,and rides an old push bike everyware.Also I bet he is one of those blokes who has his hair done up like a Rastafarian.

I dont see why small engines pollute any less in real terms.

Alright, you will get a full tank in a fiesta 1.1 for £28 or it will be say £55 in a 330Ci BMW.

If you are on motorways alot, the fiesta will kill more fuel then the BMW because you have to rev' the living daylights out of it all the way through your journey.

Having a small or large engined car isnt the problem, its the use it gets that is.

Originally posted by maxwell
Just trying to picture what Ptigga looks like,I bet he is the sort who brews his own beer rolls his own fags that stink like horse ****,and rides an old push bike everyware.Also I bet he is one of those blokes who has his hair done up like a Rastafarian.

This doesn't realy say where you stand in the argument, it just makes you look a bit of a prat.

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
I dont see why small engines pollute any less in real terms.

Alright, you will get a full tank in a fiesta 1.1 for £28 or it will be say £55 in a 330Ci BMW.

If you are on motorways alot, the fiesta will kill more fuel then the BMW because you have to rev' the living daylights out of it all the way through your journey.

Having a small or large engined car isnt the problem, its the use it gets that is.

So you'd say that 1.1 litre Fiat Punto causes the same amount of pollution than a 2 litre 4x4?

And you don't need to rev the living daylights out of small cars on motorways.

Originally posted by maxwell
Just trying to picture what Ptigga looks like,I bet he is the sort who brews his own beer rolls his own fags that stink like horse ****,and rides an old push bike everyware.Also I bet he is one of those blokes who has his hair done up like a Rastafarian.


Wow, smart bloke. You can really tell what someone looks like from their opinion?

smaller engined and newer cars are more efficient. My car gets about 30 to the gallon the motorway, my other halfs gets about 45, so there's no way her car pollutes as much as mine. It's much harder work driving hers on the motorway though.

Do me a favour everyone. Complaining about how much damage cars do to the environment but you all use cars in some form or have done anyway.
You're all quite happy using electricity from power stations that pollute. I have no doubt some you still use coal fires which use fossil fuels which pollute. Some you don't recycle which in turn means more landfills which pollute etc etc etc.
We all contribute to the pollution of the environment in some way. Cars are just a small portion of it which so called do gooder pedestrians are quick to jump on but like I say elsewhere, until there is a safer, cleaner, frequent, comfortable, cost effective way fo transporting me about then I will continue to use my car.
If in 5 years time car development has progressed to a stage where we can use electricity or battery powered cars then great..I'm all for it. But I won't accept being individually blamed or lambasted for using my car by hypocrites in this forum.

at least you don't have to wait in the rain for a car. A mate of mine calls buses peasant wagons, but that's his oppinion. I

Scum waggons is a more apt name!

Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
Scum waggons is a more apt name!

People who use public transport are "scum"?

Explain...

Originally posted by fyybj
Originally posted by neeeeeeeeeek
Scum waggons is a more apt name!

People who use public transport are "scum"?

Explain...

Yes, please explain so I can point out the error of her ways to my wife.

Originally posted by fyybj
So you'd say that 1.1 litre Fiat Punto causes the same amount of pollution than a 2 litre 4x4?

And you don't need to rev the living daylights out of small cars on motorways.

Few points really....

1. I didnt mention a Fta Punto being anything like a 4 x 4.
2. A 4 x 4 (by this I mean aogun, X5 etc) by nature is a much heavier vehicle and set up differently to a car in terms of torque, etc. Hence will use more fuel. Both car
3. 1.1 car will always rev higher at 70mph then a car with more torque such as a 3.0 unless its completely out of tune.

:)

I was using those as examples of either end of the scale because you said "I dont see why small engines pollute any less in real terms."

Obviously, larger cars pollute more, as you said, due to the weight and larger sized engines they are less efficient so "Hence will use more fuel" which will create more pollution and have a larger impact on the environment.

Originally posted by maxwell
Just trying to picture what Ptigga looks like,I bet he is the sort who brews his own beer rolls his own fags that stink like horse ****,and rides an old push bike everyware.Also I bet he is one of those blokes who has his hair done up like a Rastafarian.

I respectfully ask you to keep personal comments like this off public forums. If you can't keep the discussion civil and avoid personal insults then I suggest that you do not post here.

Your description of me is completely innacurate, unfounded and hurtful. I await your apology.

Ptigga

Originally posted by ptigga
If you can't keep the discussion civil

You created this thread with a knowingly provocative post. I'm not condoning personal insults but a provocative thread is more than likely to result in someone being insulted. Maybe the fumes are affecting your brain ;)

Originally posted by Robbie_Lovin
well think the time has come to ban all drivers who live in council houses LOL
we cant all be snobs

Originally posted by hazel
you youngsters do not know what real smog is.
wait til you canot see your hand in front of you. yelllow haze round the lamplights and when home nostrils full of soot
i know what you mean i once had a bloke sat on my bonnet
on savile street when i worked at firth brown tools
and i once followed a chap up is drive

Originally posted by fyybj
I was using those as examples of either end of the scale because you said "I dont see why small engines pollute any less in real terms."

Obviously, larger cars pollute more, as you said, due to the weight and larger sized engines they are less efficient so "Hence will use more fuel" which will create more pollution and have a larger impact on the environment.

Erm, is it obvious? I dont think newer large engines are inefficient, not if you balance the power output compared to older cars.

In Sheffield for example, with all its lovely hills, a small engined car is revved to death on the steep climbs, either that or crawl up at 20 mph. No matter which way you look at it, revving an engine burns excessive amounts of fuel. Having a larger engine doesnt always mean it uses 'more' but in cases can be much more efficient in directing power to the wheels, and in the case of Sheffield climbing up the hills.

I never said larger cars pollute more, what i said was 4 x 4 vehicles are heavier so you can expect them to, thats not a classification on all cars as such.

Not all large cars are heavy as they used to be with the new aluminium body parts and engine designs. They are much more efficient. If you drive them hard, you will probably only get limited MPG, give that if you are responsible with them and use the 'torque' you can do alot with it on a shoestring budget ;)

The way forward is to put a 3.0 diesel engine in a Vaxuhall Nova - pace without grace and a complete loss of face :)

Originally posted by mega_monty
The normal everyday Sheffield people in their mases (1000+ people), are unlikely to take cycling mostly due to the steep gradients and its not always practical.

It's the gradients that make cycling in Sheffield fun! I've lost a pile of weight since I started commuting from just outside Chesterfield to Sheff and back and some of that at least will be as a result of trying to get me and my bike up the hills of the city we love.
Almost as much fun is sailing past the long queues of middle managers with their jackets hanging up in the back going nowhere as they approach the city centre ;)