I was appalled at the article in tonight's Star newspaper about the racist treatment that a potential customer received.

She was muslim, and wanted to book a wedding reception there, and after "politeness to her face" when the staff member was leaving a message on her ansafone, the tone changed to one of mockery and racism, the minute the staff meber believed the phone was hung-up.

this member of staff was heard, threatening to contaminate the ritually clean food (Halal, which is basically the same as the Jewish kosher" rites) with black pudding, which in both faiths is considered unclean, as it contains pork by-products.

This member of staff was heard, mocking the fact that Muslims don't celebrate Christmas, in the same way that Christians do.. which is, actually, not such a biggie, as Muslims do recognise Jesus (pbuh) as a great- prophet, amongst those who had prophethood bestowed upon them.

The co-workers with her were heard laughing uproariously at her "witty" (yeah, right!) comments...

I am aghast that this staff member was not sacked, immediately this came to light, for gross misconduct. If it were an employee of mine, her feet would not have touched the floor, as she was propelled through the doors, and she would have only had cause to pause, in order to catch her P 45, as it flew past her ears as a paper aeroplane!

Whatever faith a person follows, that faith should be treated with acceptance, respect, and dignity, not mockery and gibes.

I have also had contact with the staff at the novotel, a number of times, and yes, I have also encountered the staff's "Couldn't give a Damn" attitude, on each occasion.

these people don't deserve jobs!

how dare this person be so disparaging against another person's faith, whatever her privately held views!

PT

I beg to differ. The whole story is sensationalistic and shouldn't be the main story on the front page. If you read the transcript, she doesn't actually say anything racist. The worst thing she says is that the woman is "some kind of Muslim" - religion and race are separate issues, and even then it's hardly the most insulting thing in the world is it? Would a Christian take offence over being labelled "some kind of Christian"?. The jibe about Halal was quoted from a member of kitchen staff, and again, involves religion not race.

She might well deserve the sack, but I bet nearly all telephone workers bad mouth awkward customers to their colleagues when they (in this case think) they have hung up. Let the offence be negligence in not ensuring the customer was offline, and not a knee-jerk reaction to a few comments regarding religion.

If the worst thing going on in our city is that some girl is "tearful" (forgive me for not believing that) after over hearing someone call her "some kind of Muslim" then I think we should be very thankful that we don't have real problems, such as 14 year old girls being shot in the street.

PS. For those wishing to read the sensationalist tripe, go to http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=869004 )

I think it is a newsworthy story if employees of one of the country's famous hotel chains is making derogatory remarks about a prospective client's religion and joking about contaminating their food with pig's blood. As a vegetarian, it has certainly put me off ever visiting Novotel!

It hardly warrants a front page spread and a "RACISM STORM" headline though does it? It isn't even racist.... white people can be, and are, Muslims. Sensationalist journalism at it's finest.

im gonna have to agreee with t020 on this one,

storm in a teacup springs to mind,

where she is on about the
She wanted halal meat.
I went into the kitchen and they said 'Oh yeah we'll do halal as long as they realise that it'll have been rubbed all over with some... black pudding'. (laughter) ...


you should read the next line which is

I'm, like, 'Yeah I don't think that's gonna go down well'...

so not actually her in the wrong there

i dont see where she is racist at all on the message, but maybe im missing something

Arrgh. What nightmare.
What I find astounding is the now inverted racism we are suffering. Radio stations which are exclusive to artists, it would never be allowed to have white only music.
Black artists awards for music MOBO, would not be tolerated as white only.
The reversal is almost complete, rather than white only things are becoming black only....will there be buses and trams for black people only soon? it was never tolerable when white people tried to dominate. Are not all races regarded equally now?
Maybe I should record an album with a damn good tan and try to win an award so I can show my true colours!
I wish the governmant could recognise the effect over compensating has. Journalism is taken to new levels just because anything said of any culture other than white Christian is regarded as prejudice. BAH!
A certain personal example of waiting in a queue at the housing office and two men of , I would guess, Indian descent stepped in front of me with a ticket they picked off the floor in order to push in the queue. The woman at the desk asked me to leave it when I kicked up a fuss. Why? because it would be seen as racism. I refused point blank and in order to appease both me and the two lads they opened another desk.
I don't agree with racism at all, never have, never will but I can't stand the reversal of issues either.
The article printed is clearly oversensationalised. yes the woman was wrong but any person of any faith booking a party for any reason might have received the same lack of respect from the Novotel.
I'm sure if I rang up to arrange a belly dancing convention party with a low fat meal to be served, some comment would have been made and realistically it isn't such a strange request.

Forget it, it's just another tedious attempt to start yet another thread about racism. It's PT's favourite subject.

actually, killian, you are wrong, disability discrimination is my main soap-box....

I dislike discrimination in any form.

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
actually, killian, you are wrong, disability discrimination is my main soap-box....

PT

I certainly don't have a problem with that, PT.

Originally posted by t020
I beg to differ. The whole story is sensationalistic and shouldn't be the main story on the front page. If you read the transcript, she doesn't actually say anything racist. The worst thing she says is that the woman is "some kind of Muslim" - religion and race are separate issues, and even then it's hardly the most insulting thing in the world is it? Would a Christian take offence over being labelled "some kind of Christian"?. The jibe about Halal was quoted from a member of kitchen staff, and again, involves religion not race.

She might well deserve the sack, but I bet nearly all telephone workers bad mouth awkward customers to their colleagues when they (in this case think) they have hung up. Let the offence be negligence in not ensuring the customer was offline, and not a knee-jerk reaction to a few comments regarding religion.

If the worst thing going on in our city is that some girl is "tearful" (forgive me for not believing that) after over hearing someone call her "some kind of Muslim" then I think we should be very thankful that we don't have real problems, such as 14 year old girls being shot in the street.

PS. For those wishing to read the sensationalist tripe, go to http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=869004 )

This is EXACTLY what i was thinking, just did'nt have the words to express my feelings without sounding racist myself.
Thanks t020 :thumbsup:

Seconded :thumbsup:

I can't count the number of times I've heard jokes or rude comments on TV about Jehovas Witnesses and what we ought to do to them when they call, or the birth rate of catholics. I've done it myself in the past, and I'M a catholic!

Race and religion are two completely different things.

In fact, there are apparently only three races on earth....Caucasion (which includes Europeans, Arabs, Native North and South American Indians and Asians), Mongoloid (Chinese, Japanese) and Negroid (African, Australian Aborigine)

Originally posted by t020
I beg to differ. The whole story is sensationalistic and shouldn't be the main story on the front page.

Agreed, but thats the Sheffield Star at its best im afraid. Its nothing when compared to the tragic killing of the 14 year old girl in Nottingham this weekend.

Im sure we've discussed falling quality of the Sheffield Star somewhere on this forum before.

Originally posted by Zebra

Maybe I should record an album with a damn good tan and try to win an award so I can show my true colours!.


Just like Justin Timberlake had to do?

Originally posted by markham


Race and religion are two completely different things.




Legally that isn’t always the case, Anti-Semitism is legally racism as the Jewish people are recognised as a race.

I think this article is a pretty worrying insight into the attitudes of some people. If your first reaction upon hearing someone has a religious dietary preference, different to your own, is to instantly arrange for someone to violate that. I think you are a pretty nasty individual.

It reminds me of case a year or two ago when they discovered a mortuary worker had been photographing dead Muslim ladies, naked and covered in strips of bacon, when they raided his home they found hundreds of Polaroid's dating back years. Their was even a suggestion he had been involved in some sort of underground desecration ring.

Action such as this is not legally racism because Islam is a faith which embraces all races, but it is certainly a prime example of the Islam-phobia, worryingly prevalent in our society today.

Personally i think it is good that the Star is taking a lead on issues such as this, hopefully showing the way some people react to Muslims in this city will help to curb such events and bring about better tolerance.

Obviously when you compare this the utter tragedy that has occurred in St Anne's, this story pails in insignificant. But as an event that has occurred in Sheffield I think it is important for the Star to report it and draw as much attention as possible to it.

Originally posted by Plain Talker


I dislike discrimination in any form.




Sorry but you have to realise if you stick up for someone suffering discrimination because they are Muslim that automatically means you support discrimination against all Christians.

This also applies for opposing discrimination against black people, instantly you must accept a pro-discrimination policy against all white individuals.





I wanted to highlight this post with my sarcasm coloured highlighter, but I couldn't find it.

All religion is laughable anyway to be fair if you look at it from a logical perspective.

Sorry Disco_cat i have to disagree slightly.

"hopefully showing the way some people react to Muslims in this city will help to curb such events and bring about better tolerance"

I hear and have indeed received lots of so called derogatory comments, to the point where i was repairing a dangerous machine and someone told me not to worry about my partner if i die because he and all the other lads at work would go round and regulary 'sort her out'. My response to this is not to start crying and kick up a fuss, but to laugh my T**S off!. Maybe society should lighten up a bit?

It’s alright to laugh at religions. Not so good to bad mouth someone behind their back or contaminate their food.

From the hate all religions equally perspective, it will be interesting to see if playing Propagandhi’s: Haillie Sellasse, Up your ass . Will become illegal once Blunkets religious hatred laws come into effect

Originally posted by vidster
Sorry Disco_cat i have to disagree slightly.

"hopefully showing the way some people react to Muslims in this city will help to curb such events and bring about better tolerance"

I hear and have indeed received lots of so called derogatory comments, to the point where i was repairing a dangerous machine and someone told me not to worry about my partner if i die because he and all the other lads at work would go round and regulary 'sort her out'. My response to this is not to start crying and kick up a fuss, but to laugh my T**S off!. Maybe society should lighten up a bit?


Well different people takes things in different ways. I saw some awful chat show on ITV the other night and a Muslim bloke said he didn’t like the way women looked with Botox. The host said what would you like them to look like? A burka?

The audience were mortified and this bloke did look offended but then laughed it off.

We had a gig cancelled a year or so ago because to was billed as a Halloween concert and the hall was owned by a CofE school who objected. We had to call it an ‘autumn celebration’

It’s not just Islam protected by the PC brigade.

Originally posted by vidster
Maybe society should lighten up a bit?

I think this would be a very good thing.

Originally posted by Plain Talker
this member of staff was heard, threatening to contaminate the ritually clean food (Halal, which is basically the same as the Jewish kosher" rites) with black pudding, which in both faiths is considered unclean, as it contains pork by-products.


There is no way I can condone the ignorant rascism of the person on the switchboard at the hotel, but in terms of the 'ritually clean' Halal food I do have a problem - as I understand it, Halal meat comes from animals not stunned, but hung live , throats cut, left to bleed to death. I have a HUGE problem with that. 'Ritually clean?'
How about inhumane, perverse and obscene

This is as I undesrtand Halal butchering/preparation - If I am wrong about the procedure I will happily post an apology.

If that's true ewwwww, how awful.
Another point of education for me today.

I hate all religeon and spout off about their ridiculous traditions and "controls" regularly. I watched catholics and proddies blow each other up in ulster as a young man and now get peoples heads cut off and kids masacared at school in the name of Ilsam as an adult.

If anybody would like a headline out of "religeous prejudice" I can supply you with them all day and I won't apologise. From where I am standing it ought to be no less insulting than taking the **** out of the football team you support. But for the weak minded fools who subscribe to religeons, blindly ingoring scientific discovery and modern social progress in an attempt to excuse their lifes failings and atrocities, it is as though you have shot them in the foot or something.

However I am not a customer services advisor for a hotel, and for purely commercial reasons in the best interest of that hotel he/she should have been at least "moved sideways".

kilauea, i like where you'r coming from. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your post's.

Disco cat - get things in perspective here. She didn't photograph a dead muslim naked with bacon on, she referred to someone as "some kind of Muslim" and quoted what a member of kitchen staff had said. I don't for one minute believe the muslim girl was "tearful" over the issue, just opportunistic. In reality, most ppl who cause a fuss to telephone staff will be bad mouth once the phone is hung up. That's the nature of some people, but let's not blow it out of proportion into a front page news story because quite frankly, it isn't.

Originally posted by vidster
kilauea, i like where you'r coming from. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your post's.


Seconded. Blowing this issue of very minor insults to a religion into some kind of tragedy serves only to further racial and religious tensions, and strengthens the divide between sectors of society. If someone started laying into me on the phone and saying far worse things than calling me "some kind of Atheist" then I doubt the Star would even put the "story" on page 35, and rightly so.

Originally posted by Disco_Cat
It’s alright to laugh at religions...

Not on this forum apparently. On one of the recent "jokes" threads, I posted one about suicide bombers. It was removed pretty quickly without a word of explanation. In the same thread was a joke about Tony Blair getting killed in a plane crash. That's acceptable, it seems, as the joke is still there.

Originally posted by mojoworking
Not on this forum apparently. On one of the recent "jokes" threads, I posted one about suicide bombers. It was removed pretty quickly without a word of explanation. In the same thread was a joke about Tony Blair getting killed in a plane crash. That's acceptable, it seems, as the joke is still there.

Well obviously. It's ok to "joke" about someone dying, so long as they're not a minority otherwise out come the PC brigade from the trees they were chained to.

Originally posted by t020
Seconded. Blowing this issue of very minor insults to a religion into some kind of tragedy serves only to further racial and religious tensions, and strengthens the divide between sectors of society. If someone started laying into me on the phone and saying far worse things than calling me "some kind of Atheist" then I doubt the Star would even put the "story" on page 35, and rightly so.

Well said, on all counts

Originally posted by t020
Seconded. Blowing this issue of very minor insults to a religion into some kind of tragedy serves only to further racial and religious tensions, and strengthens the divide between sectors of society.

Absolutely bang on.

If I were practising a system of faith that was created in the year dot to try to enforce civil control due to the lack of such modern developments as inclusive education, democratic (or otherwise) goverments, law and judicial systems and civil defense / police forces, I would want to get on with it quietly out of embarrasment. Not shout it from the roof tops at every opportunity.

And the idea that agents from various faiths can knock on your door whenever they please and try to convince you that you should be believe the wholly unproven, unscientific and obsolete texts they peddle is for me far more insulting.

Will stop ranting now. Sorry, but it is a sore point with me for the reasons previously mentioned. I suffered from horrific recurrent dreams from NI and the whole Ken Bigley affair has left me in fear of typing news.bbc.co.uk into my browser. I wish Nassa would hurry up and find some aliens who would own up to making us for a laugh so we put it all to bed once and for all.....

Originally posted by kilauea
Absolutely bang on.

If I were practising a system of faith that was created in the year dot to try to enforce civil control due to the lack of such modern developments as inclusive education, democratic (or otherwise) goverments, law and judicial systems and civil defense / police forces, I would want to get on with it quietly out of embarrasment. Not shout it from the roof tops at every opportunity.


I couldn't agree with you more, religions such as this are an anachronism.

However, I have a feeling you may get a little flack from the Friends of Islam and their lickspittle apologists before long.

I can't help thinking they'll get their wedding party at the hotel at christmas free of charge after this.... not a bad outcome eh?

Originally posted by Internetowl
I can't help thinking they'll get their wedding party at the hotel at christmas free of charge after this.... not a bad outcome eh?

It's amazing how people begin to cope with the disstress they have suffered once money (or something free) is offered. If they realy are offended they should refuse to go to the Novotel wether it's free or not.

As far as I can work out, this free wedding is an imaginary outcome, not a real one.

disco cat, the story u told is very sick isnt it. I have never heard of such disrespect! bacon put on a muslim woman, how wud they like it if someone did something similar to them and aginst their religion, its very worrying how some people dnt have a heart!

overheard in a hotel in Rome -


Hi there, this is The Novotel in Rome. Having checked with my colleague the other day I'm afraid we are not able to offer you any time during the easter week.

Erm, as I suspected we are actually booked up with Easter parties. Sorry about that, bye bye ... (attempts to hang phone up).

That was that woman who came in the other day - honestly, she was a right pain in the **** ... (laughter) ... some kind of Jew you know ...

They wanted a wedding in ... when I said about Easter parties they were like ... (inaudible, more laughter) ... I'm not being funny love but most people in this country still celebrate Easter do you know what I mean?

(laughter). Just because you're a Jew... You know when we get enquiries and we've, like, rejected them for whatever reason, and you have to put why, and it's, like, no space, not included, or whatever?

I've just put on this one 'can't be arsed'. (laughter) ... She wanted kosher meat. I went into the kitchen and they said 'Oh yeah we'll do kosher as long as they realise that it'll have been rubbed all over with bacon rashers'. (laughter) ...
I'm, like, 'Yeah I don't think that's gonna go down well'...

hmmmmmmmm, that is wrong.

Originally posted by draggletail
There is no way I can condone the ignorant rascism of the person on the switchboard at the hotel, but in terms of the 'ritually clean' Halal food I do have a problem - as I understand it, Halal meat comes from animals not stunned, but hung live , throats cut, left to bleed to death. I have a HUGE problem with that. 'Ritually clean?'
How about inhumane, perverse and obscene

This is as I undesrtand Halal butchering/preparation - If I am wrong about the procedure I will happily post an apology.

I take it you're a vegetarian or don't eat meat slaughtered by conventional methods in factory slaughterhouses then?

Completely over the top reporting methinks.
OK, the young woman has every right to be upset and offended by the comments as would most of us on overhearing personal comments made about us.
As has already been pointed out, this receptionist can hardly be blamed for repeating the words uttered by someone else in the kitchen, which is what the "Star" is doing.
Clearly all the staff were generally taking the **** and were adopting a rather derogatory tone, "some kind of Muslim" which actually would seem to be factually correct for all that.
I'd be concerned if this was promoted as a case of racism rather one of disrespect.
Not a sacking offence for this individual. An apology and an extra training seminar for all staff is warranted.

Originally posted by fyybj
I take it you're a vegetarian or don't eat meat slaughtered by conventional methods in factory slaughterhouses then?

Good point. Factory farming is a nasty business indeed. Halal ain't great, either - and according to what I've read in the past, many animals intended for slaughter according to shariah law are actually stunned first, as it would be uneconomic not to do so (not enough meat could be otherwise processed). Which defeats the object in the first place. But to single it out as "inhuman, perverse and obscene" is a little bit silly.

Originally posted by t020
Disco cat - get things in perspective here. She didn't photograph a dead muslim naked with bacon on, she referred to someone as "some kind of Muslim" and quoted what a member of kitchen staff had said. I don't for one minute believe the muslim girl was "tearful" over the issue, just opportunistic. In reality, most ppl who cause a fuss to telephone staff will be bad mouth once the phone is hung up. That's the nature of some people, but let's not blow it out of proportion into a front page news story because quite frankly, it isn't.


This coming from a man who was gobsmacked at a shop assistant being on the phone while he was waiting to be served.

If you know this is the kind of 'customer service' you get t020 then you should in future perhaps not be so speechless and make your opinions heard on their 'not giving a toss' attitude towards those who indirectly pay their wages.


Anyway, I dont think it deserved the front page, infact I think the only reason it made it there was because of the size of the institution if related to (Novotel) it was some community hall I doubt it would have made the pages.

That said, you dont expect this kind of thing from a professional place, which is why you pay them higher rates, for better surroundings and service.

I think she is within her rights to complain, as should anyone else be. I don't think its racially motivated or anything else, thats bullsh*t, but perhaps more a lack of professionalism.

Originally posted by fyybj
I take it you're a vegetarian or don't eat meat slaughtered by conventional methods in factory slaughterhouses then?
I haven't eaten meat or fowl for years. I did not used to eat fish, either. I do these days.

Originally posted by Greenback
Good point. Factory farming is a nasty business indeed. Halal ain't great, either - and according to what I've read in the past, many animals intended for slaughter according to shariah law are actually stunned first, as it would be uneconomic not to do so (not enough meat could be otherwise processed). Which defeats the object in the first place. But to single it out as "inhuman, perverse and obscene" is a little bit silly.
I understood that Halal cattle where not stunned, but had their throats cut whilst still alive and conscious. I was talking in that context. If that is true, then it is "inhuman, perverse and obscene"
If they are properly stunned then I stand corrected.
Anyone:confused: :confused:

Well, the beast must be bled whilst alive and I'm certain that many are not stunned before having their throats cut.
Such animals are exempt from some of the rules governing slaughter .... a concern to some welfare groups.
As a meat eater I have to acknowledge that humane slaughter is a complete misnomer anyway, with much in the way of botched jobs, inadequate stunning etc etc
Best if travelling slaughtermen did the killing of free-roam animals on the farm...I don't suppose hygene regs would allow that though?

The answer to this is simple.

Any 'foreigner' that has the cheek to complain about being racially abused should be punished by being racially abused.

That will teach them.

Hopefully they will leave the country as a result. Then we can reach the Aryan utopia that we once fought Hitler to avoid.

Wonderful......

Originally posted by Ned Ludd
As has already been pointed out, this receptionist can hardly be blamed for repeating the words uttered by someone else in the kitchen

She wasn't. She didn't go to the Kitchen ,no need because:

a)They were booked up for Christmas, as she intimated
b)Novotel, being a hotel in Sheffield, is well set up for Halal customers, especially with good notice. If you don't book ahead and you do eat halal (i.e *not* a wedding) then you will most likely be offered the fish, unless there are halal supplies in stock for another function/travelling group.

She was joking about going to the kitchen, all part of the patter - telling the "story" to her vacuous colleagues.

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW

I think she is within her rights to complain, as should anyone else be. I don't think its racially motivated or anything else, thats bullsh*t, but perhaps more a lack of professionalism.

I agree with that. It's just the Star trying to make a story out of very little.

Well, I'm with DiscoCat on this one. The Novotel member of staff is one bitter and twisted individual if an enquiry as to whether a dietary requirement can be catered for evokes such a response.

I don't think it deserves front page news, but bringing the company into disripute is usually a sackable offence.

What concerns me most is that this attitude is rife in Sheffield. Many people forced to provide service display a deep resentment towards the people they are serving. (Nope, can't find my sarcasm highlighter either)

I've pretty much given up eating out, coz it just isn't pleasant. Why pay to have your evening ruined by some prat with an inferiority complex that manifests itself in ignorance and aggression? And just incase that sounded high handed, I have been on the other side of the counter, and previous customers have greeted me as an old friend on later shopping trips.

Smile, you get out of people what you put in. P**s them off enough and they'll probably deck you.

well I m not exactly Mr Pinko flufffy politically correct but lets make no mistake the behaviour of this staff member is deeply unpleasant and symtomatic of anundercurrent of nastiness in Sheffield life. As an ex southerner I was deeply worried by recent comments by parson crossite about outsiders etc.... in the Star
Yorkshire Nationalism anyone?
Like all the rest of the right-on nationalism? Recent climbing trips to 1 Wales resulted in near fisticuffs with Park Warden after i mispronounced Cwm Eigua 2 Fort William - BRITS OUT - scrawled on the bog walls.
NAtioanlism and localism lead to conflict at every level. Blah woffle, speech over, sorry...........

But The Star is a newspaper and it has to sell copies - surely you all understand that, so why are you so surprised/shocked at it's "Viz" style headlines. You need to get out more and focus on the stuff that counts not something that is only worth 35p ;)

The women's been sacked and the victim is getting the use of the Hilton Converence Suite for free - so winners all around..

Related issue - why do Somali's / Eithiopians have to shout so loud when they are talking to each other - we don't all want to know...its as if they try to provoke a response..

I've no idea IO, kinda like asking why most of your posts are under the bracket "I'm not a racist but..."

Originally posted by draggletail
I understood that Halal cattle where not stunned, but had their throats cut whilst still alive and conscious. I was talking in that context. If that is true, then it is "inhuman, perverse and obscene"
If they are properly stunned then I stand corrected.
Anyone:confused: :confused:

You are correct. Halal preparation is as you previously thought...

http://www.ulricianum-aurich.de/lk/knots/meat_and13.htm

I'm not sure that it's legal to do it without some measure of stunning in the UK, as it says in the article, the european commonwealth forbids it, but the fact that it still exists ANYWHERE in the world revolts me. It's gratuitous barbarity, nothing more.

Dave

Which begs the question, why hasn't this method of slaughter been banned under the humane treatment of animals laws?

I must say that the EEC are being a bit selective about what they stick their noses into.

The transporting of livestock has been regulated with tough laws, cucumbers must be straight!, we must use kg and grammes in our shops etc............but, we can still murder bulls for sport, and kill animals barbarically for religious purposes (if its against EEC regs, then why aren't they facing the consequences?).:loopy:

Has the 'Star' turned into a rabble-rousing rag ?

I'd have thought a local paper had a responsibilty to foster good relations between different sections of society rather than feed festering prejudice.

IMO by front-paging this incident under banner headlines the editor seems set on stiirring up trouble. Is he an employee of Rupert Murdoch's by any chance ?

Originally posted by Internetowl
Related issue - why do Somali's / Eithiopians have to shout so loud when they are talking to each other - we don't all want to know...its as if they try to provoke a response..
They do that, because in many countries in Africa it is considered very rude to whisper, in case people think you're talking about them. So now you know.

Having just read this story, it doesn't surprise me in the least. I don't think the woman on the phone was intending to be racist. I work in a hotel, and anyone else that does will know that you can be genuinely civil, polite and helpful to guests, but when you think their back is turned you have a joke at their expense.

The only thing this woman did wrong was not hanging the phone up properly. She deserved to be sacked, but only for being so stupid.

Originally posted by Sidla
They do that, because in many countries in Africa it is considered very rude to whisper, in case people think you're talking about them. So now you know.


That doesn't really make sense when they're speaking another language anyway though does it?


Originally posted by Sidla
Having just read this story, it doesn't surprise me in the least. I don't think the woman on the phone was intending to be racist. I work in a hotel, and anyone else that does will know that you can be genuinely civil, polite and helpful to guests, but when you think their back is turned you have a joke at their expense.

The only thing this woman did wrong was not hanging the phone up properly. She deserved to be sacked, but only for being so stupid.

Agreed.

Originally posted by t020
That doesn't really make sense when they're speaking another language anyway though does it?
Course it makes sense. It's the way they've been brought up.

Why do you always look before you cross the road? Because your parents told you to.

Originally posted by Sidla
Course it makes sense. It's the way they've been brought up.

Why do you always look before you cross the road? Because your parents told you to.

Not quite. ..... It's so we don't get knocked over;)

You know what I'm getting at though.

Originally posted by Sidla
Course it makes sense. It's the way they've been brought up.

Why do you always look before you cross the road? Because your parents told you to.


So their parents teach them not to whisper as it could be seen as rude as people might think they're talking about them, but then they bring them up to speak a foreign language in the streets of an English speaking country...... hmm, I see a contradiction there, and can't see how it makes sense. :huh:

I don't know wether you're being pedantic t0, or wether you really are dumb.

In Somalia, nobody whispers because it is considered rude. Therefore it is part of their culture and it is how they bring up their children. They also bring up their children to speak Somali as it is their native language.

So you can rest assured, if you do hear Africans shouting to each other, don't worry, they're not talking about you. Afterall, how do they know you don't speak Somalian hmm?

Originally posted by Martin Dust
I've no idea IO, kinda like asking why most of your posts are under the bracket "I'm not a racist but..."

As a Irish nationalist living in the Uk I guess I am racist - but not in the way you implied. The other responses to my question gave a plausible reason - that was all I was asking for on the off chance anyone knew which they did. You got a problem with that - perhaps you should consider you're posts carefully as I could take offence at your posting.

Just for the record, in your opinion just how many of my postings are 'deemed' in this category then? I suspect not too many. Seems to me if you post anything the 'moral? minority' disagree with then you're automatically classed as a racist on this board. Its sad when people are discouraged from posting for fear of being branded in such a way.

:suspect::loopy:

Originally posted by Sidla
I don't know wether you're being pedantic t0, or wether you really are dumb.

Neither, you're being contradictory.


Originally posted by Sidla

In Somalia, nobody whispers because it is considered rude. Therefore it is part of their culture and it is how they bring up their children. They also bring up their children to speak Somali as it is their native language.

So their parents consider whispering rude since people won't be able to hear if they're being talked about, yet they bring their children up to speak Somali in a predominantly English speaking country... hmmmm. :huh: :loopy:


Originally posted by Sidla

So you can rest assured, if you do hear Africans shouting to each other, don't worry, they're not talking about you. Afterall, how do they know you don't speak Somalian hmm?

It's a fairly safe bet to make.

Have you ever brought children up in a foreign speaking country?

Until you do, kindly keep your opinions to yourself.

Back on topic please.

I love that answer Sidla, it actually makes sense. Now, can you explain why so many British people abroad find it necessary to shout at foreigners in English?

Originally posted by snakey_dave
You are correct. Halal preparation is as you previously thought...

http://www.ulricianum-aurich.de/lk/knots/meat_and13.htm


Thanks for clarifying that, Dave:thumbsup:

Originally posted by Sidla
Have you ever brought children up in a foreign speaking country?

Until you do, kindly keep your opinions to yourself.

Back on topic please.
I brought my children in a foreign country where it was mandatory to learn up to 4 languages.......So that they could get on in life...

Originally posted by draggletail
Thanks for clarifying that, Dave:thumbsup:

Hardly a clarification is it? From which reputable souce might it be from?? Hmm...

Infact some muslim countries are happy with stunning provided it meets this criteria...

'Stunning is generally practiced in an integrated meat processing plant and instructions for its use have been laid down by Halal authorities and as contained in the ASEAN guidelines on Halal slaughtering. The use of stunning equipment must be under the control of a Muslim supervisor or trained Muslim slaughter man at all times. As a rule, stunning must neither cause death or permanent injury. A stunned animal with broken skull would be classified as non-Halal and would be separated from Halal carcasses. Stunning is done to avoid wild movement of the animal when slaughtering takes place and make the process less painful to the animal'.

Now you can find this backed up on these sites...

http://www.mindanews.com/2003/11/14nws-halal.html

and

http://atn-riae.agr.ca/asean/e3129.htm

Originally posted by Internetowl
As a Irish nationalist living in the Uk I guess I am racist - but not in the way you implied. The other responses to my question gave a plausible reason - that was all I was asking for on the off chance anyone knew which they did. You got a problem with that - perhaps you should consider you're posts carefully as I could take offence at your posting.

Just for the record, in your opinion just how many of my postings are 'deemed' in this category then? I suspect not too many. Seems to me if you post anything the 'moral? minority' disagree with then you're automatically classed as a racist on this board. Its sad when people are discouraged from posting for fear of being branded in such a way.

:suspect::loopy:
Join the club!!! Anything that is not of the same opinion as others automatically brands you a racist or a bigot.

Just glad to see it's not only me getting that treatment!

Originally posted by Sidla
Have you ever brought children up in a foreign speaking country?

No, but if I did I would teach them to speak the native language outside of the home.


Originally posted by Sidla
Until you do, kindly keep your opinions to yourself.

And there was me thinking this was a forum.


Originally posted by Sidla
Back on topic please.

1, 2, 3... now flex those mod muscles, stretch, and relax.

Originally posted by DerekH
Join the club!!! Anything that is not of the same opinion as others automatically brands you a racist or a bigot.

Just glad to see it's not only me getting that treatment!

The worlds a small place - he'll realise that one day. What goes around, comes around.

Originally posted by Sidla
They also bring up their children to speak Somali as it is their native language.



You never know. One day they may want to go back.

Originally posted by Gerry
You never know. One day they may want to go back.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbsup: :clap:

Originally posted by t020
No, but if I did I would teach them to speak the native language outside of the home.
No you wouldn't. And even if you reply saying you would, I still won't believe it.

Anyway, why is it any different to English tourists going to say France and chatting to their friends in English? And if it is a private conversation, why do you want them to speak in English anyway? Surely you're the inconsiderate one for wanting to eavesdrop.

Originally posted by Sidla
No you wouldn't. And even if you reply saying you would, I still won't believe it.

Oh ye of little faith.


Originally posted by Sidla

Anyway, why is it any different to English tourists going to say France and chatting to their friends in English?

Because of the very fact they're tourists, and not permanent, second generation immigrants.


Originally posted by Sidla

And if it is a private conversation, why do you want them to speak in English anyway? Surely you're the inconsiderate one for wanting to eavesdrop.

For the same reason that it's rude to whisper. Surely you can see the contradiction that I'm merely pointing out here?

Contradiction schmontradiction. As I said before, how is a Somali to know who does and who doesn't speak his language? In many ways it is contradictory, but that's life for you.

Fair point Sid. My parents used to, on occasion, speak in Welsh in public places. They got a bit of a shock once when someone whom they'd been discussing replied to them in Welsh ...

As far as I'm aware no one was ever offended by the fact they were speaking in Welsh. Just as I've not been aware of anyone being offended when French or German speaking friends talk to each other or their children in their native tongue.

My brother is an immigrant, in Hungary. I'm going over to see him in 3 weeks, and I can assure you, I have no intention of learning Magyar just so's we can chat in the streets. Any Hungarian rude enough to earwig us will get unpenetratable Yorkshire. I might even take some Hendo's.

Originally posted by DerekH
Join the club!!! Anything that is not of the same opinion as others automatically brands you a racist or a bigot.

Just glad to see it's not only me getting that treatment!

IO - I guess you just fear change or things that are different, cling to the past all you want, it's not coming back, maybe it's just the language you use and this is just an outsiders view looking in, so I may be wrong.

Derek, people label you a racist because that's what you are, a fully paid up member of the BNP. And while you try it on with your European style, family values, Non hate in public (The Commies tried this as well Derek and failed, so did the KKK) we all know the truth about you and your party.

If you really need a sense of control or power I'd suggest golf instead of trying to align yourself with everyone else who has a petty gripe. Maybe you should have a word with your other boys, as threatening women in the chat room here seems to be their thing, just about sums your party up.

Well here we go AGAIN martin,bringing the BNP into a thread which has nothing to do with them.
Why dont you try afor once to stick to the thread instead of going on another tirade against a forum member.
I will say that the alleged comments were out of order and it was right to take action against the person responsible.

Roy, Roy, Roy...First thread I've ever mentioned it in, ever. Why are you so angry and reactionary?

And I am sticking to the topic by replying to people that have questioned my view and I'm just giving the facts and truth as to why I believe people hold the views they do - something you aren't keen on is it. So, instead of being so subjective I'd suggest you try to be objective for a change. Tirade? Are you nuts, you should get out more, dreaming of Hilter seems to have lowered your IQ. I don't mind people having different view one bit, just don't expect me to put up with the crap and lies you lot spout.

The fact that you agree with the sacking means very little to me nor does it hold any value, smoke and mirrors Roy, you are indeed, a walking paradox (Look it up).

Originally posted by 1Man&hisBMW
Hardly a clarification is it? From which reputable souce might it be from?? Hmm...

Infact some muslim countries are happy with stunning provided it meets this criteria...

'Stunning is generally practiced in an integrated meat processing plant and instructions for its use have been laid down by Halal authorities and as contained in the ASEAN guidelines on Halal slaughtering. The use of stunning equipment must be under the control of a Muslim supervisor or trained Muslim slaughter man at all times. As a rule, stunning must neither cause death or permanent injury. A stunned animal with broken skull would be classified as non-Halal and would be separated from Halal carcasses. Stunning is done to avoid wild movement of the animal when slaughtering takes place and make the process less painful to the animal'.

Now you can find this backed up on these sites...

http://www.mindanews.com/2003/11/14nws-halal.html

and

http://atn-riae.agr.ca/asean/e3129.htm
1man, thanks for your feedback, but even the information given in your own links is in conflict!
1st link: Headed 'The process' Quote: Stunning.Stunning is used to make the animal unconscious prior to slaughtering....
2nd link: under heading 'guidelines' (point 10) IF stunning is used during the slaughtering process...... Reputable sources?
Anyone????

Originally posted by Martin Dust
But The Star is a newspaper and it has to sell copies - surely you all understand that, so why are you so surprised/shocked at it's "Viz" style headlines. You need to get out more and focus on the stuff that counts not something that is only worth 35p ;)

I blame the ..........s who buy the flippin rag. Liverpool has managed to put a bigger dent in the sun's turnover than the record breaking payout they had to make to Elton John.

If people weren't so interested in scandal (true or not), it wouldn't sell and therefore wouldn't be printed. 'Baa, Baa, it's somebody else's fault, Baa, Baa.'

Originally posted by Sidla
They do that, because in many countries in Africa it is considered very rude to whisper, in case people think you're talking about them. So now you know.

I work in a hotel, and anyone else that does will know that you can be genuinely civil, polite and helpful to guests, but when you think their back is turned you have a joke at their expense.

The only thing this woman did wrong was not hanging the phone up properly. She deserved to be sacked, but only for being so stupid.

Sidla, I hope your hatred eats you from inside. How dare you advocate slagging off anybody behind their back and for no reason other than your own twistedness? That's even ruder than wispering.

I would have ignored your post if you weren't a moderator

Originally posted by draggletail
1man, thanks for your feedback, but even the information given in your own links is in conflict!
1st link: Headed 'The process' Quote: Stunning.Stunning is used to make the animal unconscious prior to slaughtering....
2nd link: under heading 'guidelines' (point 10) IF stunning is used during the slaughtering process...... Reputable sources?
Anyone????

The 1st is a guideline, its a recommended procedure.

the 2nd is their requirements before they accept. I think its from the Brunei Govt. They say it because its a requirement they want from their suppliers which is a bit different.

Originally posted by Strix
Sidla, I hope your hatred eats you from inside. How dare you advocate slagging off anybody behind their back and for no reason other than your own twistedness? That's even ruder than wispering.

I would have ignored your post if you weren't a moderator
I wasn't advocating it, I was merely saying it goes on. I also said that the staff in the hotel I work at are genuinely helpful to guests and always try to be polite and friendly.

Have you ever complained about the job you do? I'm sure most people do it all the time, and because in catering we deal with people it's natural that we get ticked off with them from time to time. It obviously wouldn't be good practise to moan about them to their faces.

Can you honestly say you've never talked about sombody behind their back? If you havn't you must be a saint.

Originally posted by Sidla
I wasn't advocating it, I was merely saying it goes on. I also said that the staff in the hotel I work at are genuinely helpful to guests and always try to be polite and friendly.

Have you ever complained about the job you do? I'm sure most people do it all the time, and because in catering we deal with people it's natural that we get ticked off with them from time to time. It obviously wouldn't be good practise to moan about them to their faces.

Can you honestly say you've never talked about sombody behind their back? If you havn't you must be a saint.

You may have noticed, I prefer to say it to their face :wave:,
else I was schooled in the JLP method of 'managing' those awkward customers.

There's nothing more rude to a rude person, than being polite as f**k in return (with a dose of sarcasm, of course)

Talking about somebody you dislike afterwards only serves to prolong the bad taste in the mouth. Do you talk about your nice customers, and share pleasant stories with colleagues? You find it rubs off.