Hi!

Since my husband and I are quite new to Sheffield and to the UK we would be grateful if you could give us some advice on the common procedure concerning BIDDIND/ HOUSE BUYING:

1. Is usual for a house seller + estate agent to "invent" a second interested buyer in order to force the first bidder (in this case, us) to go up with the offer?


Our case: One day before we put in a bid we were told by the estate agent that there was no people interested in the property although it has been on market since December. One day after our bid the estate agent called us to say that a family turned up and put a higher bid (20 000 pounds higher than ours!!) and asked us whether we wanted to go higher. We found it quite bewildering but we decided to do and offered 2 000 pounds more, but only under the condition that he would accepted it at the same day (last Friday). Since we didn't receive any answer at all, we thought that the family offered more and the house was gone.

For our surprise the seller told us this Monday that he (+ estate agent) allegedly could not get in touch with the family and signalised that the house was still under offer. And yesterday (Tuesday), we were told that the house still was under offer for the price this family offered first.

Upon this we think that it is very very strange...
a) that this family appeared so suddenly...
b) that the family was immediately prepared to offer 20 000 pounds more than we first did...
c) since the value of the house yesterday still corresponded to the families 1st bid ... it's also very strange that although the family was prepared to pay so much more the seller and the state agent has not been able to get in contact with the family for four days OR that the family was not prepared to counter offer our 2nd bid although their first offer was so generous.

2) Is there a way to get/demand a proof that there was really a second offer? If the buyer manages to prove that the seller hasn't said the truth, is such behaviour punishable by law? Where could we get some information on this? Is there an institution that controls these procedures?



3) Whenever we put in a bid we said that it was valid for some 1/2/3 days. So far we have been waiting and waiting and have received no anwer at all, not even an answer that the offer was not accepted.
Is this a normal procedure or would you expect an answer at least for courtesy's sake, even if it is a "no"?


It would be great to get a sincere opinion and advice on this matter.

Thanks!

If they've invented a fictitious bidder in order to make you pay more money, that's fraud. (If they merely wanted to make you pay more money, they should refuse to accept your offer, not invent competitors.)


Not sure how you'd go about proving it though. Ring the vendor and ask him? He probably won't be too happy to find out he's lost you as a potential buyer because you're not prepared to deal with an estate agent who cheats.

You can claim up to £25,000 compensation through the Ombudsmen for estate agents ( http://www.oea.co.uk/ ) IF you can prove you have been badly treated by an agent.

Fake bids are common practise. ( http://www.moneyweek.com/file/11677/how-you-can-avoid-rogue-estate-agents.html) – check out his thread all about Sheffield Estate agents ( http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=7953)

Until the government gets around to introducing some proper regulation for this industry you might as well name them & shame them.

Until the government gets around to introducing some proper regulation for this industry you might as well name them & shame them.


I'd approve of that, but the forum moderators don't, so don't do it. :cool:

1. Is usual for a house seller + estate agent to "invent" a second interested buyer in order to force the first bidder (in this case, us) to go up with the offer?
No.

2) Is there a way to get/demand a proof that there was really a second offer? If the buyer manages to prove that the seller hasn't said the truth, is such behaviour punishable by law? Where could we get some information on this? Is there an institution that controls these procedures?
No, Yes, A solicitor, No.

3) [B]Whenever we put in a bid we said that it was valid for some 1/2/3 days. So far we have been waiting and waiting and have received no anwer at all, not even an answer that the offer was not accepted.
Is this a normal procedure or would you expect an answer at least for courtesy's sake, even if it is a "no"?
You're the one being unreasonable towards the Vendor in this instance. If you want to buy it, buy it and go through the usual procedure. Otherwise get off the pot and look elsewhere.



It's frustrating, but most sales are perfectly normal.


A few rules for buying.... (and I do it for a living)

1. Know the true value, not what you would like it to be.
2. Only bid on property that you can afford after researching the market.
3. Never, ever ever set your heart on a property.
4. There are NO dream homes, just lots of bricks and mortar that don't belong to you yet.
5. Walk away with good grace if you''e not buying it.
6. Remember, if YOU were the Vendor YOU would want the highest price possible too.

... and lucky rule number 7. Todays price will look cheap in 6 months time, so get it bought ;)

:)

The current English procedure is difficult and open to abuse.

It is wrong to say that the only option is to go with it.

If the vendor is waiting for better offers, there is nothing you can do about it.

If the agent is inventing offers, that the vendor may not know about, then contact the vendor and make your offer clear.

If your offer is not accepted, move on.


... a comment on the reply about phantom offers. It may not be "usual" but it is not "uncommon".
.. it is possible to demand proof of a second offer. ... You may not get it, but you can always ask!

I was sceptical about a similar situation with the house I live in now, having dealt with the same agents regarding another property which we had 'in the bag' with the offer accepted and strangely got gazumped at the last minute.
As I was already totally fed up I very curtly told the estate agent that the house was frankly not worth any more than we were offering and that really our offer was pushing it anyway. Her response was that she knew more about house prices and disagreed. I replied 'My partner works in mortgages and the house is only worth what someone will offer, so that's my final offer and not a penny more.'
There's more to the story but that's the brass tacks.
Our offer was accepted later the same day and we actually got £7,000 off the asking price by being curt and stern. Our house is apparently now worth another £15,000 - £20,000 so I'm glad we bought when we did.
The only glitch with being curt is that you might not end up with the house.
Good luck.

we had this - house went way over asking price - in the end we said balls and walked away - it's still for sale.....

You're the one being unreasonable towards the Vendor in this instance. If you want to buy it, buy it and go through the usual procedure. Otherwise get off the pot and look elsewhere.

I'm sorry but that's just your point of view. They are not being unreasonable at all.

Regardsless of if this new bid is genuine or not. The estate agent informed them of a much higher bid and they counter bid by not only matching the much higher bid but added a further 2k onto the price. So the current bid was 22k over the asking price with a condition that the offer would stand for a set period of time.

Why is this unreasonable to expect a decision from the vendor within the set time limit for the bid? Is this not how you buy houses for a living?

I suspect that the EA is playing games and the vendor knows nothing of the offer. This is bang out of order and the sooner an EA comes out worse for this shocking business practice the better.

I dont know all the circumstances but from what you have told us my advice is walk away, let them worry about losing the offer. Something is not right here and at 22k over the asking price if I was the vendor I would say yes. Unless of course the house was seriously undervalued to start with but i'm sure the answer to that is obvious with a bit of research into other similar property.



A few rules for buying.... (and I do it for a living)

1. Know the true value, not what you would like it to be.
2. Only bid on property that you can afford after researching the market.
3. Never, ever ever set your heart on a property.
4. There are NO dream homes, just lots of bricks and mortar that don't belong to you yet.
5. Walk away with good grace if you''e not buying it.
6. Remember, if YOU were the Vendor YOU would want the highest price possible too.

... and lucky rule number 7. Todays price will look cheap in 6 months time, so get it bought ;)

:)

The rest of your advice is very helpful and valid. Especially No: 7. Unless you buy a complete lemon or are plain stupid your very unlikely to lose money on buying property (if you follow the advice above).

Why do people deal with the estate agents anyway. When we bought 3 years ago the only time I contacted the EA was on moving day when I asked where we pick up the keys. They only contacted me once to confirm we had the funds to buy the house.
Freeze out the EA. Deal and negotiate with the vendors. They're probably nice people who just want to sell and move on. If not, walk away.

it is actually perfectly legal for estate agents to conjure up phantom bids (though I'm not sure how often it occurs), they're not forcing you to place a higher offer it's of your own volition.

If they've invented a fictitious bidder in order to make you pay more money, that's fraud. (If they merely wanted to make you pay more money, they should refuse to accept your offer, not invent competitors.)


Not sure how you'd go about proving it though. Ring the vendor and ask him? He probably won't be too happy to find out he's lost you as a potential buyer because you're not prepared to deal with an estate agent who cheats.

As a first time buyer, I found a property at 95K. I offered the asking price, and was then told a day later that there were 3 other offers of the asking price, all FTBs. The Estate Agents then said that they would contact everyone to see if they wished to increase their offer. I was told that if I submitted a higher offer, the other potential buyers would not know what I had offered. I offered 97,500. A day later, the estate agents called me up to say someone had offered 98,500. So they had gone back on their word not to disclose the bids. I pulled out and withdrew my offer. The property is still available.

Found another property, different EA. Had offer accepted, one day later they called me to say that a higher offer had been placed and would I like to up my offer. I said no thanks and withdrew the offer.

I have now found a place and am doing the deal directly with the developers. I understand that sellers want the best price, but I really do not plan using estate agents ever. When I come to sell, I would like to use somewhere like 2roost.

Walk away. You have made your offer and the condition of the offer was that you wanted it to be taken off the market.

If the Estate Agent contacts you now, tell them that you are only prepared to offer the original asking price now. Let someone else pay over 20k over the asking price - unless the house price is over 250k, I doubt someone would offer so much more anyway.

In future, if you are interesting in making an offer on a property, speak to the vendor and ask them what they want to take the property off the market. You can then make that offer and tell the estate agent that you have already spoken to the vendor. Most of the time, it is the estate agents trying to cause bidding wars. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the estate agents you are referring to maybe Blundells. They have for me, in the past kept things going unnecessarily for days going backwards and forwards with "other" higher offers until I refused to make offers. Haybrooks seem very genuine when you deal with them.