York council are voting -

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/yorknews/display.var.1140350.0.foie_gras_could_be_banned_in _groundbreaking_move.php

I may have a vested interest about my French relations - but I fully support this step... what do other people think ?

Honk

Shouldn't need banning. No-one should eat this torture-food.

That's what I think...

Ban everything French I say! :mad:

This is lovely food and I enjoy it on occassion when in France. It seems to me that this is a foodstuff that will eventually disappear but it will take a very long time because the French hang on to their traditions.

I listened to the councillor from York on the wireless last night and he sounded like a complete ****er. The phrase "I don't mind people eating meat, my wife even eats it sometimes" didn't lead me to believe that he was a reasonable person.

This is lovely food.I'm sure it is.

But to be fair, that has no relevence to the argument.

The council is saying what people can eat ?
I hope our council don't get any ideas.

The council is saying what people can eat ?
I hope our council don't get any ideas.Exactly. They'll be saying we can't eat Buddhists next.

i wouldn't want my legs broken, being made to live my short miserable life in a cage so that i couldn't move at all, and being force fed with a tube down my throat, all so that blase people can turn me into a living example of a 'delicacy'.

hmm, yummy. oh yes.

I hope they do, force feeding the duck or goose through a tube placed in the animal's throat until its liver is so engorged its ridiculous and then send the animal to slaughter is disgusting and inhumane.

I hope they do, force feeding the duck or goose through a tube placed in the animal's throat until its liver is so engorged its ridiculous and then send the animal to slaughter is disgusting and inhumane.

It's no more disgusting than what happens to battery chickens or pigs, but that seems to be ok as far as York Council is concerned. banning something that hardly anyone eats is just a publicity stunt, nothing more.

I saw this on the news last night and couldn't really get my head round it. Regardless of the rights or wrongs of foie gras, does anyone know under what legislation a local authority have the right to ban restaurants from serving a specific dish? I thought they could only do this if the dish was nationally banned (eg, when we had a ban on beef on the bone). I'm not saying I disagree with the ban, I just wasn't aware it was possible for a local authority to do this

It's no more disgusting than what happens to battery chickens or pigs, but that seems to be ok as far as York Council is concerned. banning something that hardly anyone eats is just a publicity stunt, nothing more.Nick, what do you have to say on the following statement by a chief York councillor on the subject:

"However, that there are greater wrongs in the world should not require us to turn a blind eye to other cruelties when they are exposed."

To me, it's the most intelligent think I've heard someone in local government say in yonks.

The council is saying what people can eat ?
I hope our council don't get any ideas.

The US, not exactly known for its animal rights, already have a handful of cities that have banned the dish - mainly NYC and Chicago - with the later being the first city in the US to do so.

I think geese that have been forced feed with a tube should be banned, though I think if they just over feed the animal in a natural way (through feed) is a slightly more human way of eating the delicacy. Ive never had it, and probably never will, but I do have friends who have sampled both and say the animals that have been fed without the tube and say its waaaaaaay better then those geese who have been forced fed.

Err, under just what legal authority are York City Council acting here and how are they going to penalise foie gras munchers??

Err, under just what legal authority are York City Council acting here and how are they going to penalise foie gras munchers??

I don't think they have any authority to do this and they aren't going to do it anyway. It was simply one lone veggie who wanted to make a point. he has made his point because I really fancy some now as I had forgotten just how nice it is.

Err, under just what legal authority are York City Council acting here and how are they going to penalise foie gras munchers??To answer your first question, local authorities in Britain have the power to restrict the sales of foodstuffs on cruelty grounds.

To answer your second, there's nothing been said about foie gras 'munchers' being penalised.

It's just going to glamourise foie gras to the kids, isn't it? Before long you're going to have pushers hanging about on streetcorners and outside school playgrounds, whispering "Ere - want a bit of goose, mate?". Before long kids'll be hooked and then they'll try to get them onto the stronger stuff - pheasant liver, moorhen, maybe even swan. And what with it being such an expensive product, addicts will be stealing to fund their addiction.


They really haven't considered the socio-economic impact of this ban, have they?

To answer your first question, local authorities in Britain have the power to restrict the sales of foodstuffs on cruelty grounds. Which piece of legislation is that?

Excuse my ignorance but what the heck's foie gras anyway?

Which piece of legislation is that?

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/index.htm#1911

That covers foie gras quite nicely, for a start...

"It is an offence to...cause unnecessary suffering to an animal that is being destroyed to provide food for mankind"

Excuse my ignorance but what the heck's foie gras anyway?

Google is your friend :thumbsup:

Excuse my ignorance but what the heck's foie gras anyway?

Sheffield Forum (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1640397&postcount=33) is your friend too.

:shocked:

Glad I don't eat that kind of thing then if it involves cruelty to ducks... Ducks gave me hours of fun when I was a kid (and no, not like THAT, I mean feeding them).

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/index.htm#1911

That covers foie gras quite nicely, for a start...

"It is an offence to...cause unnecessary suffering to an animal that is being destroyed to provide food for mankind"

But by that logic, nearly all animals bred for human comsumption should fall fowl of this ruling?

But by that logic, nearly all animals bred for human comsumption should fall fowl of this ruling?Ignoring the pun... ;)

Yes, I happen to agree with you. The only reasons they don't are that a) the term 'unnecessary' is extremely subjective and b) it's not a headline issue so people won't go after it.

Err, under just what legal authority are York City Council acting here and how are they going to penalise foie gras munchers??

They don't have the power -

"The move was spearheaded by Labour councillor Paul Blanchard, who said he was inspired by a similar ban in the US city of Chicago.

If the council approves a ban in York, Mr Blanchard believes it will be the first in the UK.

But he admits his motion would allow a prohibition in principle only. The councillor said the next stage would be for council officers to explore in detail what technical powers they could use to enforce a sales restriction."

Most residents would be happy to simply ban the Lib Dems.

They'll get the chance soon, fortunately.

Goodbye Ann Reid.

But by that logic, nearly all animals bred for human comsumption should fall fowl of this ruling?

In what way are they caused unnecessary suffering? I see them- sheep, pigs, cows, deer- in their fields, wandering about eating and doing whatever it is they do; and they seem happy enough.

They don't have the power -

"The move was spearheaded by Labour councillor Paul Blanchard, who said he was inspired by a similar ban in the US city of Chicago.

If the council approves a ban in York, Mr Blanchard believes it will be the first in the UK.

But he admits his motion would allow a prohibition in principle only. The councillor said the next stage would be for council officers to explore in detail what technical powers they could use to enforce a sales restriction."

PMSL! Yet more proof that Labour are so far up the US's collective arses they don't even know what they're doing! :lol:

PMSL! Yet more proof that Labour are so far up the US's collective arses they don't even know what they're doing! :lol:Lib Dem councillor, weren't he?

Lib Dem councillor, weren't he?

Read the post I quoted above.

It says Labour Councillor.

Honk, Honk!!!

Read the post I quoted above.

It says Labour Councillor.
You are most correct.

I apologise.

You are most correct.

I apologise.

Not a problem.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/index.htm#1911

That covers foie gras quite nicely, for a start...

It also covers domestic pigs (http://www.carnadas.org/blog/wp-content/photos/obese.jpg).

I understand a joint law suit has been filed against KFC, McDonalds, Dunkin Dounut and Cadburys for their part in the cruel over-feeding of these dumb animals.

I so wish I hadn't clicked on your link Zamo..............

Honk!

A good series of responses..

Still, anybody actually defending goose-force feeding?

:mad:

Still, anybody actually defending goose-force feeding?

I'm sure French people who make a living out of it would defend it.

PMSL! Yet more proof that Labour are so far up the US's collective arses they don't even know what they're doing! :lol:
Make your mind up Rich, do you think banning Foie Gras is a good idea or not? If you do, by your own reasoning that defines you as being up "the US's collective arses". Just because something may have been done somewhere else doesn't mean it's got anything to do with Anglo-US relations. Do you really think G.W. Bush got in touch with that particular councillor and said 'I want you to ban Foie Gras in York'? :loopy: Give it a rest mate :P


Anyway, I am also curious to see if/how York will try to implement the banning of Foie Gras; doing so would effectively result in a by-law? :huh:
I suspect it will never happen, not at a local level like this - either ban it's consumption for the whole country or not at all, this is just silly.

Honk!

A good series of responses..

Still, anybody actually defending goose-force feeding?

:mad:
I don't think it's a particularly nice thing to do to the birds (I can think of a nicer life for them!), but I think any attempt to ban it's comsumption would encourage many (probably even me, truth be told) to go & try it and sales would as a result, go up! People don't like being told what they are and are not allowed to do, what they can and cannot eat...

Ban everything French I say! :mad:

Get lost Don_kiddick. I bet you're one of those people who love holidaying in France.
You've offended me. :(

By the way, foie gras is considered as a delicacy and is an acquired taste. Never used to like it as a kid but love it now. It took my husband a couple of years to get used to it.
People who make foie gras do not think the animal suffers as the stuffing process happens so quickly. But then again, how do they know that?

Get lost Don_kiddick. I bet you're one of those people who love holidaying in France.
You've offended me. :(

By the way, foie gras is considered as a delicacy and is an acquired taste. Never used to like it as a kid but love it now. It took my husband a couple of years to get used to it.
People who make foie gras do not think the animal suffers as the stuffing process happens so quickly. But then again, how do they know that?

R E S U L T (http://www.capnpatty.com/big%20fish,%20small%20woman.JPG) :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:



I don't holiday there either btw - not seen all of England yet :thumbsup:

Glad you were joking. I may have lived in this country for the past 8 years, I still get hurt by anti-French comments. Can't help it! ;)

(Motion) From Cllr Blanchard:

"Council notes that:

* To produce foie gras, at just 12 weeks old ducks and geese are restrained and grain is forced down the throat through a tube or pipe, a process that often results in physical injury;

* They are forcibly fed the equivalent to an adult human eating 1-28 lbs (7-13 kg) of spaghetti a day; and, after two or three weeks, when they are ready for slaughter, their livers will have swollen to about ten times normal size. The swollen liver expands the abdomen and can make movement and breathing difficult, as well as causing other health problems;

* Most ducks are kept in wire cages so small they have no room to turn around or stretch their wings, and their feet are often injured by the wire floor;

* Many die before the force feeding cycle ends, and the mortality rate for ducks raised on foie gras farms is overwhelmingly the highest in the industry;

* The force-feeding of geese is already outlawed in Poland, Denmark, Germany, Norway and Israel.

Council believes that:

* This intolerably cruel and painful practice is unnecessary and should end;

* The city of Chicago, USA, has shown tremendous compassionate leadership in its brave decision to ban foie gras in its shops and restaurants;

* The torture of small innocent animals should not be a matter of personal dietary choice.

Council resolves to:

* Instruct the Chief Executive to write to Ben Bradshaw MP, Minister of State responsible for Animal Welfare, informing him of this motion and asking for the production and sale of foie gras to be banned in the UK;

* Do as much as reasonably possible to discourage or prohibit the sale of foie gras within the authority area, whether in shops or restaurants.

The UK has already established that foie gras is cruel, as it is illegal to produce it in the UK because of the torture that it entails. The next logical step seems to be to ban the import of foie gras. I can't see this happening in the near future, but the sooner it does the better.

Remind me.

Why does someone want to eat a piece of diseased, fatty offal & pay through the nose for it?

Remind me.

Why does someone want to eat a piece of diseased, fatty offal & pay through the nose for it?


Poor Tracey.........
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4945170.stm :hihi:

(Motion) From Cllr Blanchard:

"Council notes that:

* To produce foie gras, at just 12 weeks old ducks and geese are restrained and grain is forced down the throat through a tube or pipe, a process that often results in physical injury;

* They are forcibly fed the equivalent to an adult human eating 1-28 lbs (7-13 kg) of spaghetti a day; and, after two or three weeks, when they are ready for slaughter, their livers will have swollen to about ten times normal size. The swollen liver expands the abdomen and can make movement and breathing difficult, as well as causing other health problems;


:shocked: OH. MY. GOD. :shocked:

I've had foie gras in part of a set meal at a restaurant... left most of it... to think what suffering that poor animal went through to put that little sliver of meat on my plate (which wasnt even very nice) is AWFUL!
I had no idea :o I thought it tasted weird cos they fed the ducks really rich tasting food, which was why it was expensive.

Oh I feel terrible now! (and a bit naive & stupid :blush:)
They should ban it everywhere in England, not just York!

This not for the faint of heart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7xdpRkzcvI

Fair enough to single out foie gras, which is certainly produced by abusing the bird, but logically the councillor would have to extend his ban to all foods produced by such manipulative methods. I wonder if he likes veal? Where does he stand on battery chickens etc? Or caviar, likewise a threat to the survival of the sturgeon?

Councillor Blanchard is a "lacto-ovo vegetarian" (http://www.paul-blanchard.info/).

I have not eaten that vile 'food' for over 30yearsnow, nor will I eat veal , which is also produced by cruelty, and desease.
How it can be considered a delicacy is amazing.:gag:

Fair enough to single out foie gras, which is certainly produced by abusing the bird, but logically the councillor would have to extend his ban to all foods produced by such manipulative methods. I wonder if he likes veal? Where does he stand on battery chickens etc? Or caviar, likewise a threat to the survival of the sturgeon?

It's so easy to criticise someone for trying to stop cruelty by pointing out other cruelties that take place. Maybe he is against all the other cruelties you point out. I'm against all the ones you have mentioned.

But the fact that the UK has deemed foie gras too cruel to be produced in this country should be enough to suggest that it is reasonable to consider banning imports too.

Arguing that you have to stop ALL cruelty before you speak out against one particularly barbaric practice seems to me to be like saying that it is ok to do what you like to any animal so long as any cruelty still exists. Maybe that's what those poor innocent folk in Barnsley were thinking last year when they put a cat in the microwave to watch it suffer and die?

The council is saying what people can eat ?
I hope our council don't get any ideas.

Hint noted! :)

i'm a commited carnivore and i refuse to eat the stuff. theres a pack of difference between raising an animal for slaughter and basically torturing it to death so some 'gourmet' can enjoy it. foie gras is the result of barbaric practise and anybody who eats it should be ashamed.

also reading the above points that cgksheff provided they should be forced to eat a pound or two of spaghetti see how they like it

Today goose and duck pate tomorrow all meat

all meat eaters will be forced to go veggie

justification will be killing animals for food is cruel no matter how humanely killed and of course meat is bad for us and we cant be trusted to eat it in moderation

but if meat is killed for ceremonial events and killed in accordance with a faith system e.g. jewish/islamic it will be allowed

but like it has been said, they cant enforce this ruling, so why make it?

What a load of rubbish. Another example of the nanny state telling us what we can and can't do.

I like eating it, have no qualms with eating it and am sick of being dictated to by do gooders.

.......... so why make it?

Councillor Blanchard will be up for re-election this coming June.

He's just got himself free publicity all over the national press, the television and the internet.

Councillor Blanchard will be up for re-election this coming June.

He's just got himself free publicity all over the national press, the television and the internet.

Sorry to appear un-cynical, but maybe he actually believes that it is cruel and barbaric.

Not one of the farmers unions have started a campaign to allow production in this country, so maybe there could possibly be some truth in the allegations that it is an unacceptably cruel way of treating birds?

I think that he probably does believe in his cause.

I'm not sure that there ever was a foie gras production industry in this country?

Councillor Blanchard will be up for re-election this coming June.

He's just got himself free publicity all over the national press, the television and the internet.

And choosing to ban somethging that very, very few people actualy eat ensures there won't be many people opposed to his ban.

What a load of rubbish. Another example of the nanny state telling us what we can and can't do.

I like eating it, have no qualms with eating it and am sick of being dictated to by do gooders.

I'm not a fan either of the state interfering in matter such as what we can or can't eat. Generally speaking. I would prefer them to opt for education and not legislation in such circumstances. However, it is ironic that the publicity generated through their stance has resulted in a lot more people becoming educated about the subject than if they'd simply produced some education material! Perhaps what they've done is smarter than people think.

PuressenceUK, if you can watch the video provided by cgksheff and say you have no qualms about eating it then you are an unpleasant person.

I'm not a fan either of the state interfering in matter such as what we can or can't eat. Generally speaking. I would prefer them to opt for education and not legislation in such circumstances. However, it is ironic that the publicity generated through their stance has resulted in a lot more people becoming educated about the subject than if they'd simply produced some education material! Perhaps what they've done is smarter than people think.

PuressenceUK, if you can watch the video provided by cgksheff and say you have no qualms about eating it then you are an unpleasant person.

I second both your points there Zamo... A week ago I didn't know exactly how it was made, and now I do and will never touch it again.

I got halfway through the video and had to switch it off as I felt ill...

i'm a commited carnivore and i refuse to eat the stuff. theres a pack of difference between raising an animal for slaughter and basically torturing it to death so some 'gourmet' can enjoy it.

Agree completely. I'm vegetarian, but don't have any ethical objection to eating animals that have had a normal life in the wild, or a comfortable life if farmed, and have been killed instantly (without knowing about it) and without suffering.

[I might have other objections, e.g. aesthetic or philosophical ones, or that those conditions can't be achieved in practice, on a large scale.]

Motion was deferred.
They have asked for a report to be compiled and will debate the motion at a later date.

Motion was deferred.
They have asked for a report to be compiled and will debate the motion at a later date.

so the good people of york will fork out a few thousands for report by "experts" so their council can vote on an issue and pass an edict that they cant do anything about :loopy:

I would ask if all councils are good at wasting tax payers money like this? but i'm afraid we all know the answer :mad:

Make your mind up Rich, do you think banning Foie Gras is a good idea or not? If you do, by your own reasoning that defines you as being up "the US's collective arses". Just because something may have been done somewhere else doesn't mean it's got anything to do with Anglo-US relations. Do you really think G.W. Bush got in touch with that particular councillor and said 'I want you to ban Foie Gras in York'? :loopy: Give it a rest mate :P


Anyway, I am also curious to see if/how York will try to implement the banning of Foie Gras; doing so would effectively result in a by-law? :huh:
I suspect it will never happen, not at a local level like this - either ban it's consumption for the whole country or not at all, this is just silly.

Steve mate, I couldn't give less of a hoot if they banned foie grass or whatever they call it tomorrow.. I've never had it and probably never will.. I was referring to the fact that a Government higher-up in Chicago said to a Labour MP that he'd banned it, suggested the same to him and the Labour MP was all "Oh yes sir, 3 bags full sir".. :lol:

It's a known fact that the Yanks say "jump" and Tony Blair and the rest of his Labour cronies say "how high oh great and powerful Masters?!" :lol: :loopy:

Steve mate, I couldn't give less of a hoot if they banned foie grass or whatever they call it tomorrow.. I've never had it and probably never will.. I was referring to the fact that a Government higher-up in Chicago said to a Labour MP that he'd banned it, suggested the same to him and the Labour MP was all "Oh yes sir, 3 bags full sir".. :lol:

It's a known fact that the Yanks say "jump" and Tony Blair and the rest of his Labour cronies say "how high oh great and powerful Masters?!" :lol: :loopy:
The qoute said the councillor was inspired by what had occured in America, not that any conversation or communication had occured, nor that anything had been initiated from the US. e.g. I might be 'inspired' to build my own race track, after I heard that someone else had done just that.

We're going dangerously off-topic, but I don't think the policital environment is quite as simple as The Daily Mail might have you believe Rich, and, like I said, this example is certainly nothing to do with Anglo-US relations. :thumbsup:

The whole thing is reminiscent of when Sheffield's lefties declared the city a "Nuclear Free Zone" back in the 1980s. Really reassuring, that was.

The whole thing is reminiscent of when Sheffield's lefties declared the city a "Nuclear Free Zone" back in the 1980s. Really reassuring, that was.

If it saved just one nuclear bomb from the torture of forced feeding then it was the right thing to do.

Motion was deferred.


Weetabix normally sorts those problems out

Glad you were joking. I may have lived in this country for the past 8 years, I still get hurt by anti-French comments. Can't help it! ;)

I bet you Alan Murrays biggest fan :hihi:

The whole thing is reminiscent of when Sheffield's lefties declared the city a "Nuclear Free Zone" back in the 1980s. Really reassuring, that was.

Well it worked didn't it? Unless you remember there being a nuclear war since then.

The qoute said the councillor was inspired by what had occured in America, not that any conversation or communication had occured, nor that anything had been initiated from the US. e.g. I might be 'inspired' to build my own race track, after I heard that someone else had done just that.

We're going dangerously off-topic, but I don't think the policital environment is quite as simple as The Daily Mail might have you believe Rich, and, like I said, this example is certainly nothing to do with Anglo-US relations. :thumbsup:

How VERY dare you! :hihi:

I've never even glanced at a copy of the Daily Mail! :lol:

I bet you Alan Murrays biggest fan :hihi:

I don't really know him. The other day, my husband asked me if I fancied watching one of his shows. He then paused and said: "on second thoughts, you best not, you might get angry"...
Not everything said about my country offends me, only some of it when it's purely gratuitous. Most of the time, I do have a sense of humour. :)

What a load of rubbish. Another example of the nanny state telling us what we can and can't do.

I like eating it, have no qualms with eating it and am sick of being dictated to by do gooders.


I have simular sentiment from the 19th century about the foul "do-gooders" who wanted to ban child labour, the slave trade and limit air pollution.

I guess this thread pretty much exposes your entire take on life... :(

I don't really know him. The other day, my husband asked me if I fancied watching one of his shows. He then paused and said: "on second thoughts, you best not, you might get angry"...
Not everything said about my country offends me, only some of it when it's purely gratuitous. Most of the time, I do have a sense of humour. :)

His act involves immitating an old school pub landlord, (a bit like Warren Michells 'Alf Garnett'), who is very patriotic, but thinks that just means hating the French and Germans. He can be quite funny sometimes.