SCENARIO...TOTAL GRIDLOCK CITY WIDE>>>>>

WHere does anyone think the really CRUCIAL road or section or road or junction is that, if a major incident CLOSED it in BOTH directions, (or ALL directions in the case of a major junction), would effectively cause total gridlock across the City in a matter of hours........

is it in fact ANY major road would cause this, or does anyone think there is a definite key section of road which would gridlock all traffic very quickly...

assume worst case Friday T time rush hour.....

SCENARIO...TOTAL GRIDLOCK CITY WIDE>>>>>

WHere does anyone think the really CRUCIAL road or section or road or junction is that, if a major incident CLOSED it in BOTH directions, (or ALL directions in the case of a major junction), would effectively cause total gridlock across the City in a matter of hours........

is it in fact ANY major road would cause this, or does anyone think there is a definite key section of road which would gridlock all traffic very quickly...

assume worst case Friday T time rush hour.....


Parksquare roundabout

Brookhill roundabout. Or the roundabout by Waitrose at the bottom of Ecclesall Road. Either would quickly back up onto the other causing total gridlock.

Any of the major roundabouts and feeding roads to the northside of sheffield from the city centre i.e. park square, west bar and the university. If any of those are blocked even slightly it causes mayhem.

park square without a doubt!

It seems that all it takes is a car breaking down if the recent chaos is anything to go by.

For a single road, how about the one outside Midland station going away from Park Square. That would soon block everything back to and beyond the roundabout.

Nursery Street.

Basically - anywhere within the inner ring road area!!!

.

anything within the city centre im afraid- thats been proved beyond doubt these past few months, the problems with SCC's road layout is that there isn't any alternative routes in and around the city so once it creates a que- its there until the traffic subsides hours later!!!

SCENARIO...TOTAL GRIDLOCK CITY WIDE>>>>>

WHere does anyone think the really CRUCIAL road or section or road or junction is that, if a major incident CLOSED it in BOTH directions, (or ALL directions in the case of a major junction), would effectively cause total gridlock across the City in a matter of hours........

is it in fact ANY major road would cause this, or does anyone think there is a definite key section of road which would gridlock all traffic very quickly...

assume worst case Friday T time rush hour.....I think you'd need about 4 incidents to really jam sheffield.

Park Sq, Lady Bridge/Wicker, Moore St Roundabout(Waitrose), and the 5 way junction at the top of queens rd

Just looking at the past few weeks its certainly not a hypothetical situation, more like a regular occurance...

I've yet to hear a logical explanation from anybody responsible for SHeffield roads, WHY they have narrowed several very busy roads in the town centre, to ONE LANE. THis leaves NOWHERE to go if a car or lorry breaks down at a crucial point.

WHERE is the logic in expanding pavements to 20-foot accross, when traffic levels are rising so much to bottle necks??
am thinking specifically of Arundel Gate and Eyre Street.

Why do we need huge sweeping Parisian style boulevards when we seem to have managed fine with the previous set up for the past 100 years?.

Have these changes been made by a blind man?? Who is responsible?

Staniforth Road at Attercliffe is one of the worst examples of spectacularly daft planning:huh: - a busy road again, narrowed to one lane in each direction, and they now allow parking on BOTH sides of the road, therefore NO overtaking, where it tused to be easy to pass a parked bus, it's now IMPOSSIBLE.
and loads of traffic lights added to make what used to be a 15 minute journey to 30, 40 minutes, and thats on a good day. 19 lots of traffic lights between Handsworth and town. it's INSANE.:loopy:

I've seen traffic wardens in operation ONCE in past 2 years on that road.

all this at a time when car use has quadrupled in last 20 years - has someone at Sheffield Council completely lost the plot? OR as some of my more cynical friends are saying, this situation is being deliberately encouraged by our do-gooding road planners to encourage people not to use cars?

I'm not banging the drum for car users by the way as I've never driven a car in my life, but the logic of bad road planning that can bring a city the size of SHeffield to a half with 2 or 3 stopped vehicles simply escapes me.

You're right, it's not hypothetical and it's discussed every time there is major gridlock. The consensus is that because of the traffic plan cutting the city centre into "zones" and allowing no through traffic there are no relief routes available should there be any sort of problem on the inner ring road.

I reckon there should be some way of opening those closed routes for exceptional situations - would take technology and some brains though.

I think you'd need about 4 incidents to really jam sheffield.

Park Sq, Lady Bridge/Wicker, Moore St Roundabout(Waitrose), and the 5 way junction at the top of queens rd

It has been proved that one incident within the city area causes havoc on three occasions in the last month

SCENARIO...TOTAL GRIDLOCK CITY WIDE>>>>>

WHere does anyone think the really CRUCIAL road or section or road or junction is that, if a major incident CLOSED it in BOTH directions, (or ALL directions in the case of a major junction), would effectively cause total gridlock across the City in a matter of hours........

is it in fact ANY major road would cause this, or does anyone think there is a definite key section of road which would gridlock all traffic very quickly...

assume worst case Friday T time rush hour.....

Whicker arches :help:

Knowing sheffield's roads, a car could break down on the top floor of John Lewis's car park and the city would grind to a halt.

Staniforth Road at Attercliffe is one of the worst examples of spectacularly daft planning:huh: - a busy road again, narrowed to one lane in each direction, and they now allow parking on BOTH sides of the road, therefore NO overtaking, where it tused to be easy to pass a parked bus, it's now IMPOSSIBLE.


This one is easy to answer. The object is to ensure all those selfish people using their cars instead of the buses don't arrive where-ever they're going any quicker than if they had travelled by bus. Simple really ;) ...and effective it seems too.

I've yet to hear a logical explanation from anybody responsible for SHeffield roads, WHY they have narrowed several very busy roads in the town centre, to ONE LANE. THis leaves NOWHERE to go if a car or lorry breaks down at a crucial point.

WHERE is the logic in expanding pavements to 20-foot accross, when traffic levels are rising so much to bottle necks??
am thinking specifically of Arundel Gate and Eyre Street.

Why do we need huge sweeping Parisian style boulevards when we seem to have managed fine with the previous set up for the past 100 years?.

Have these changes been made by a blind man?? Who is responsible?

Staniforth Road at Attercliffe is one of the worst examples of spectacularly daft planning:huh: - a busy road again, narrowed to one lane in each direction, and they now allow parking on BOTH sides of the road, therefore NO overtaking, where it tused to be easy to pass a parked bus, it's now IMPOSSIBLE.
and loads of traffic lights added to make what used to be a 15 minute journey to 30, 40 minutes, and thats on a good day. 19 lots of traffic lights between Handsworth and town. it's INSANE.:loopy:

I've seen traffic wardens in operation ONCE in past 2 years on that road.

all this at a time when car use has quadrupled in last 20 years - has someone at Sheffield Council completely lost the plot? OR as some of my more cynical friends are saying, this situation is being deliberately encouraged by our do-gooding road planners to encourage people not to use cars?

I'm not banging the drum for car users by the way as I've never driven a car in my life, but the logic of bad road planning that can bring a city the size of SHeffield to a half with 2 or 3 stopped vehicles simply escapes me.

In answer to a couple of your questions Sheffield like most other major cities is trying to be pedestrian friendly and discourage cars users therefore being more environmentally friendly.

You won't have seen a Traffic Warden for a long time because they no longer exist. Sheffield City Council parking wardens now carries out the work and they wear blue uniforms not black and yellow

The merge where the Wicker flows into Blonk Street has been a major pain of late... When traffic queues back from the u turn from Blonk Street into Castlegate, the queue backs up accross the flow from Nursery Street, which because of the high traffic volumes along there, soon has a knock on effect of clogging back to Corporation Street, thus affecting West Bar Green Roundabout and all the roads leading to it... :help:

I've seen many drivers junction blocking here and wanted to fire a rocket at them, because of the consequences of their selfish actions... I've arranged for a Yellow Box marking to go in as soon as possible, but I suspect some will still block through the yellow box... so please, give them a rude blow on your horn should you get blocked by someone sat in a yellow box ! hopefully they might not do it again :thumbsup:

My thoughts on the OP - this is one weak spot that has the ability to quickly cripple the city evening peak just on the basis of selfish driving... but to be fair, an accident or broken down vehicle has managed to do the same at several locations around the city within minutes and the real big headache then is actually getting the breakdown truck to the vehicle though the traffic blocked by the breakdown (if you can get hold of a breakdown truck)

I've yet to hear a logical explanation from anybody responsible for SHeffield roads, WHY they have narrowed several very busy roads in the town centre, to ONE LANE. THis leaves NOWHERE to go if a car or lorry breaks down at a crucial point.

WHERE is the logic in expanding pavements to 20-foot accross, when traffic levels are rising so much to bottle necks??
am thinking specifically of Arundel Gate and Eyre Street.

Why do we need huge sweeping Parisian style boulevards when we seem to have managed fine with the previous set up for the past 100 years?.

Have these changes been made by a blind man?? Who is responsible?

Staniforth Road at Attercliffe is one of the worst examples of spectacularly daft planning:huh: - a busy road again, narrowed to one lane in each direction, and they now allow parking on BOTH sides of the road, therefore NO overtaking, where it tused to be easy to pass a parked bus, it's now IMPOSSIBLE.
and loads of traffic lights added to make what used to be a 15 minute journey to 30, 40 minutes, and thats on a good day. 19 lots of traffic lights between Handsworth and town. it's INSANE.:loopy:

I've seen traffic wardens in operation ONCE in past 2 years on that road.

all this at a time when car use has quadrupled in last 20 years - has someone at Sheffield Council completely lost the plot? OR as some of my more cynical friends are saying, this situation is being deliberately encouraged by our do-gooding road planners to encourage people not to use cars?

I'm not banging the drum for car users by the way as I've never driven a car in my life, but the logic of bad road planning that can bring a city the size of SHeffield to a half with 2 or 3 stopped vehicles simply escapes me.

Arundel Gate / Eyre Street doesn't need to be used as a through route. Using Sheaf Street is the preferred alternative. When Arundel /Eyre was a dual carriageway it was a very uninviting place, was very difficult for pedestrians to cross and it severed part of the city centre.

The new arrangement is part of the remodelling of the city centre and puts it onto a much more human scale. I think most people see it as a GOOD piece of town planning.

Staniforth Road was never more than one lane in each direction. It's just been narrowed to allow better pedestrian crossing points. As i recall it had a poor accident record. These days it is looked on as no bad thing if general traffic can't get past a bus which is stopped. There are often collisions between vehicles and pedestrians at this type of location. Schemes like this are to reduce casualties, which is a Central Government requirement and satisfactory progress on this is one of the factors which governs how much highways funding the city gets.

The more traffic there is on the roads, the more traffic signals are needed.
1. Because pedestrians can't cross the road safely, and
2. Because when main road flows are heavy, traffic can't get out of side roads.

Just looking at the past few weeks its certainly not a hypothetical situation, more like a regular occurance...

I've only come across about half a dozen instances in the last year - about par for the course in any major city.

I have meetings in Leeds once a month that finish at 4 pm and allow myself a good hour coming home to get from Headingley to the motorway - must be all of four miles.

I'm always amazed by the threads that seem to imagine Sheffield is the only major city in the country with traffic problems - we aren't.

Planner 1, thankyou for your reply, although I'm afraid I disagree with almost all you've said.

Arundel Gate/Eyre street, whichever way you like to put it, is still an incredibly badly designed bottle-neck that could be reduced to a halt with one broken down car at one of the 'crossing points'.

and I would also disgree with you about Staniforth road, if, as you say the road was never wider, how come there's now spaces for a line of parked cars on one side of the road(sometimes both)? I find it staggering that this busy road is not double-yellows all along it's entire length, the flow of the traffic is reduced toa stop-start every 30 or 40 yards by these daft cahnges. another own goal by the head-in-the-sand Town Hall.

the 'remodelling' of the City centre including road-narrowing, and mega-pavements etc., was taken on by a council that rarely consults with it's citizens and when it does just ignores them(same as it ever was with Sheffield Council). Nobody asked me or anyone I know about any changes in the appearance of the city centre- I loved the old markets that had become part of Sheffield life, and I also preferred the red-brick old buildings on the backstreets to the explosion of 1000's of characterless flats/offices we are now left with. Trying to turn this city into a plastic Euro-dream town and sweeping away all it's traditional landmarks is ridiculous. Looking out accross the City from where I am now, the only building of any merit amongst the sea of grey concrete squares is, ironically, the beautifully built Victorian Town Hall.

We are eventually going to be left with a town centre that makes Slough look like Rome.

With road and housing planning(or lack of it) in particular over the past few years We have taken several steps back to the dark days of the 1960's where the council makes endless bad decisions and the people of Sheffield have to live with the consequences for generations.

Indeed Arundel Gate was such a good piece of town planning that when the entrance for the Gallery was built it took out a traffic lane. This is why the bus lane stops and two lanes have to merge, before diverging again on the other side. This annoyed the bus operators who had been told that there would be a bus lane all the way through Arundel Gate. Planner 1, perhaps you were not aware of this or maybe thought that it might undermine your argument somewhat

;)

I wonder if any of the planners have seen the latest traffic research for city centres, which says that removing *all* traffic lights and street markings improves traffic flow no end. It means no-one has priority and everyone has to go back to driving carefully looking out for everyone else.

It sounds like a recipe for chaos, but apparently it works.

I wonder if any of the planners have seen the latest traffic research for city centres, which says that removing *all* traffic lights and street markings improves traffic flow no end. It means no-one has priority and everyone has to go back to driving carefully looking out for everyone else.

It sounds like a recipe for chaos, but apparently it works.

I'd love to see Sheffield council take the plunge and try something like this. It has worked in Belgium I believe, and Holland. However, I can't see SCC even considering the possibility of trying an experiment like this. Where would be the best place to site it?

The object is to ensure all those selfish people using their cars instead of the buses

Why shopuldn't we use our cars, I'm more than happy to have a bit more time n my journey if it means I can have my heated leather seats and Radio 2 thankyou very much!

I'd love to see Sheffield council take the plunge and try something like this. It has worked in Belgium I believe, and Holland. However, I can't see SCC even considering the possibility of trying an experiment like this. Where would be the best place to site it?

Leeds?

Personally would like to see it tried in a big city first before Sheffield takes it on - from what I've read about it it hasn't been tried in anywhere but a few villages / small towns and some suburbs - bot not on main arteries in a large city.

Indeed Arundel Gate was such a good piece of town planning that when the entrance for the Gallery was built it took out a traffic lane. This is why the bus lane stops and two lanes have to merge, before diverging again on the other side. This annoyed the bus operators who had been told that there would be a bus lane all the way through Arundel Gate. Planner 1, perhaps you were not aware of this or maybe thought that it might undermine your argument somewhat

;)

I'm well aware of it. Different people have different areas of responsibility and sometimes have different views. Transport Planners wanted the bus lane, Urban Designers / Town Planners wanted a wide footway area outside the Millenium Gallery. Senior Officers and Councillors have to decide. The decision went against a bus lane.

I wonder if any of the planners have seen the latest traffic research for city centres, which says that removing *all* traffic lights and street markings improves traffic flow no end. It means no-one has priority and everyone has to go back to driving carefully looking out for everyone else.

It sounds like a recipe for chaos, but apparently it works.

Yes, we've been watching this development with interest.

I wonder if any of the planners have seen the latest traffic research for city centres, which says that removing *all* traffic lights and street markings improves traffic flow no end. It means no-one has priority and everyone has to go back to driving carefully looking out for everyone else.

It sounds like a recipe for chaos, but apparently it works.

I've heard of that as well. It sounds like a good idea if you think about it. Theres another scheme thats being brought in in other places (notably Holland and I think parts of Sandanavia) where roads in residential areas are raised and merged with the pavement, so peds and cars share the same space. Again, sounds nuts but its actually working, because people (car drivers) are thinking for themselves, being careful, and crucially, alert at all times.

I wonder if any of the planners have seen the latest traffic research for city centres, which says that removing *all* traffic lights and street markings improves traffic flow no end. It means no-one has priority and everyone has to go back to driving carefully looking out for everyone else.

It sounds like a recipe for chaos, but apparently it works.

Somewhere down in the South West tried this out and accidents were markedly reduced, it's to do with risk compensation. But sadly the more conventional and dangerous markings were put back in. The reason being - in case there was an accident they were afraid they may be sued as there were no markings! Even though it's safer. :loopy:
In Tooting, London there is a complicated set of traffic lights at Amen corner and there are always queues of traffic. Except when they all failed for a couple of days and traffic flowed nicely. Traffic lights are like a thrombosis in many places and most could be replaced by roundabouts and give ways. This would ease congestion, pollution and reduce waiting at 2am for nothing to come out of a closed shopping area. On the continent some traffic lights go off when it's quiet and simply flash to let people know to take care.

Yes, we've been watching this development with interest.
I hope you follow their lead.

Somewhere down in the South West tried this out and accidents were markedly reduced, it's to do with risk compensation. But sadly the more conventional and dangerous markings were put back in. The reason being - in case there was an accident they were afraid they may be sued as there were no markings! Even though it's safer.

You forgot to mention:
'And if there are no stop signs or traffic lights, then its less opportunity for the govt to rake in fines of the motorist'

You forgot to mention:
'And if there are no stop signs or traffic lights, then its less opportunity for the govt to rake in fines of the motorist'If you don't drive like an idiot you don't get fined anyway, so what's your point again?

It's selfish attitudes like this, which'll prevent this idea ever being implemented