It's almost October so the little urchins will soon be outside every pub and off-licence with their little Guy Fawkes effigies.

Now, I have nothing against giving money to kids on Bonfire Night or the day before, if they look like they have made an effort to make a guy, but...

a. A carrier bag with smile drawn on it is not a guy, they have arms and legs.
b. Your not having a pound, 20p is enough.
c. You shouldn't be sat outside pubs at 11pm, where are your parents ?
d. I'm not going to give you a cigarette instead of money.

e. swearing at me for not giving you money isn't going to instantly change my mind and shower gold upon your head.
f. Using your little brother or sister as a guy isn't making an effort that is exploitation.
g. Do you even know who Guy Fawkes was?

I remember doing the guy fawkes. We were allowed to stand outside our local newsagent, no way would they let me go on the highstreet like some kids do now!

Moon

Originally posted by nick2
It's almost October so the little urchins will soon be outside every pub and off-licence with their little Guy Fawkes effigies.

Now, I have nothing against giving money to kids on Bonfire Night or the day before, if they look like they have made an effort to make a guy, but...

a. A carrier bag with smile drawn on it is not a guy, they have arms and legs.not when he was hung drawn and quarted he didn't


b. Your not having a pound, 20p is enough.you obviously aint got kids


c. You shouldn't be sat outside pubs at 11pm, where are your parents ? in the pub


d. I'm not going to give you a cigarette instead of money. [/B why its a lot cheaper than a pound]

Why what? :confused: On which point did you mean why?

Grr hes edited now, so my above post doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Skatiechik
Grr hes edited now, so my above post doesn't make sense.

:D

IN support of Nick2 I agree with some of his post but not all.
Locally to where I live there will soon be lots of kids outside the co-op, the newsagents, the chippie and the pub and not one parent will be local, I know this after several years of working in the area.
I wouldn't ever give a child a ciggie, not that I smoke, but why give a child the means by which to kill themselves, aren't adults here to protect children from the dangers and hazards of life and naivety?
I don't think the amount of money given or sweets is an issue, the principle is still begging but a tradition in our country which could be upheld carefully and without degrading it.
I am a dozen times more likely to give 20p for a well made guy than a child dressed up or a dodgy carrier bag job.
I don't agree with children being out on the streets at all hours, approaching adults they don't know for items they want - its only a matter of time till kids go missing or there are paedophile attacks.
It's great to have fun and be involved but with care.
Parents should think very carefully about the consequences of what they allow their children to do, and be aware that social services can be quick off the mark and children protection is a huge issue on the public concience.
I'm trained in child protection and the legislation involved, its a messy situation to get tangled in. It makes me cross because I've seen the bad side.

What I find worse is trick or treat.

Does anyone really think it is a good idea for people to be
blackmailed into giving sweets or money etc then have their bin overturned , spray on the front door, eggs thrown at windows if these are not forthcoming.

Isn't this rewarding bad behaviour.? or am I just the odd one out.

Hazel

trick or treating sucks... we usually shut all the curtains, lock the doors and keep as many lights off as possible then they think we're out usually... lol... but round here we get like serial egg bombers too, whether you pay up or not you can gurentee a few eggs!

and those things are an ass to clean off if your not out there straight away with a bucket and water!

also, how come kids seem to manage to get fireworks months and months before anyone else? lol and where do they get the money from? thats what i wanna know!!

being a window cleaner i hate the day after haloween....you wanna try getting eggs off windows,although i don't do much cleaning these days ive had my share over the last 14 years

Originally posted by xafier
trick or treating sucks... we usually shut all the curtains, lock the doors and keep as many lights off as possible then they think we're out usually... lol... but round here we get like serial egg bombers too, whether you pay up or not you can gurentee a few eggs!

I bet there are loads of people that do the exact same thing. If it sometimes leads me to do it then I dread to think how scary Halloween is for an old person living alone!!! Really annoys me when older kids start knocking on ya door a few days before the 31st!!

My kids have NEVER been allowed to go trick or treating....I just don't agree with the begging thing. They ask me every year even though they know what the answer will be. If we celebrate halloween at all in our house then I'll just get a pumpkin and scary buns or something.

Oh and they know who Guy Fawkes was!!

Originally posted by Wench
I

Oh and they know who Guy Fawkes was!!

doesn't everybody?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

My main objection to trick or treat is that it's so American.

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Ok... This is a bad carrier bag with a face on... but...

'Trick or treat?'

Please send payments to my paypal account :D

another objection to T&T is that I have bought stuff (..just in case) for the last couple of years, then had no T&Ters!...so had to eat the sweeties myself!...a real hardship :smile:

...and Penny for the Guy?...what do they then spend the money on?...they are too young to buy fireworks etc. For a great display of firework displays, just spend an evening in Walkley (any time between October and January!)

Originally posted by nick2
My main objection to trick or treat is that it's so American.

Sorry but it is soooo NOT American.

Have to apologise for waiting for that comment to come up, but Trick or Treating or guising has it's origins in the British Isles and is a very old custom of offering food to the 'evil' spirits of the area so they don't come into your house and upset things at a time in the year when the 'veil' between worlds is thin.
Difference being that until America perfected it's advertising skills folk round here used to use Turnips for their lanterns not pumpkins...

okay I will shut up now :)

When I was little (about 20 years ago) we used to knock on doors to say "happy halloween" and secretly hope we got 2p or something similar. Now it seems to be trick or treat and a treat is expected.

Seems to me you are both right, the tradition is british but the name "trick or treat" is American.

I think that was the general idea with guising Bonny. The local kids get dressed up as 'evil' spirits and go and see which houses would apease them.

Moon

Originally posted by Moon Maiden
Sorry but it is soooo NOT American.

Have to apologise for waiting for that comment to come up, but Trick or Treating or guising has it's origins in the British Isles and is a very old custom of offering food to the 'evil' spirits of the area so they don't come into your house and upset things at a time in the year when the 'veil' between worlds is thin.
Difference being that until America perfected it's advertising skills folk round here used to use Turnips for their lanterns not pumpkins...

okay I will shut up now :)

I still use a turnip, but it takes about 2 days to carve as they are so bloody hard, but you can eat the middle unlike pumpkin which tastes crap.

I just assumed that the Americans had invented T & T as it seems to not be related to the occult or anything spiritual and more about money and being a greedy bugger.

I thought it was Celtic?

Halloween started out to be a Druid pagan holiday named Samhain the Celtic god of the dead, which starts at sundown, October 31st, meaning "Summer's End." It was celebrated by the Celtics, in Scotland, Ireland and the British Isles and Wales. This was a LONG time ago, over 2000 years ago. The Feast of the Dead took place, offering food and tidbit for the spirits of those gone before. November 1st was New Year's Day.

Also, an old Irish peasant practice called for going door to door to collect money, bread cake, cheese, eggs, butter, nuts, apples, etc., in preparation for the festival of St. Columbus Kill. Yet another custom was the begging for soul cakes, or offerings for one's self - particularly in exchange for promises of prosperity or protection against bad luck...

What's caikin' then? 31st Oct is caikin night in our village.

Originally posted by nick2
My main objection to trick or treat is that it's so American.

Guessing you meant the modern day version, which is indeed much more of an American custom. The difference being that in America it is a day of fun and celebration that brings the community together. Children get to dress up in whatever costume they like (unlike a bin-bag cape and a £2 mask) and go around collecting sweets with their parents and friends.

The main difference here is that the kids go around on there own without any thought for safety, intimidating old people, throwing eggs at windows, and turning down sweets and asking for money instead. Not to mention the AWFUL costumes, that took about 3 seconds thought.

I think trick or treating is a bad thing here, but is lots of fun in America... we should ban it!!

(Moan, moan, moan, moan, moan)

I dont mind kids coming round trick or treating.
I always give them cash or spice.

At least it keeps them off the streets getting upto mischief for a short period of time.

I suppose it gives them a different crime to perpetrate for a change. Don't want the little darlings to get stuck in a rut...:suspect: