Now a friend told me it cost him £1.75 to withdraw some money from an ATM. If that the case, to withdraw just £10 from another ATM at a cost of £1.75 is equivelent of 17.5%

Is it Justified for operators to charge that much?

Quote taken from Guardian (http://money.guardian.co.uk/news_/story/0%2C1456%2C1309103%2C00.html) site

Five years ago, virtually all cash machines in Britain were free to use, but in June this year 18,500 ATMs - more than a third of the network - were charging a fee of £1.25 or £1.50 per withdrawal, rising to as much as £5 in a few cases.

What is your view on this?

Another case off ripping of the British Public.

It's ridiculous at best!

I think it depends where abouts he drew the money from.. In some pubs and clubs they have ATM Machines and they charge you for the priviledge of taking your money out and spending it in their facilities. Is it the pubs and clubs that keep the withdrawal charges for them having an ATM machine on their premisies :huh:

I refuse to pay to withdraw my money from a machine that will charge me, like you say £10 + £1.75 for withdrawing YOUR OWN money.. Where's the justification in that :rant:

No it bloody well isn't.

Originally posted by Rich
No it bloody well isn't.

It isn't is it Rich.. Especially when you lose your wallet and money in town :wink:

privately owned cash machines are the ones that charge. every single link vcash machine i've used in the last few years hasn't charged me a penny.

Originally posted by Deejay
It isn't is it Rich.. Especially when you lose your wallet and money in town :wink:

How the hell do you know about that?!

I have satellites and camera's everywhere mate.. Be afraid, very afraid :suspect:

My bank do not charge me to take money from any other ATM at any bank.

Though i do get charged at those liitle machines that they put in shops/garages and i won't use them. They are a rip off.

There seems to be more and more of those little cash machines in small shops that charge you a fee for withrawels. I know a large bank sold several thousand of it's cash machines which were once free to one of these companies that charge a fee for withdrawel.

Statistics show that although the number of free machines are still climbing the number of machines that charge for withdrawels are rising faster.

I personally don't agree with paying at all for withdrawing your own funds.

Originally posted by Lickszz
I personally don't agree with paying at all for withdrawing your own funds.

Especially as banks don't open at a time that a normal person is at work so you cannot go in to withdraw cash. I have problems getting to one to put cheques in, sometimes they are around for ages before being deposited.

Maybe they will think twice when all the banks have got 500 meter queues all day, every day!

You'll find that bank owned atm's wont charge you - Barclays tried to introduce it a few years ago and it caused uproar so the plan was abandoned. The banks now absorb the costs themselves.

It is the privately owned ones as already mentioned that charge you. Personally if I run out of money in a pub/club etc and get my cash from a machine there I'll happily pay the charge.

I think I'm right in saying that HBOS have just flogged all theirs to a 3rd party so expect to pay using theirs in the near future.

not sure on what grounds you're all so outraged at regarding the independant ones charging. Why they hell else should they provide them, for the love of it?

Originally posted by Cyclone
not sure on what grounds you're all so outraged at regarding the independant ones charging. Why they hell else should they provide them, for the love of it?

The best way to look at it, they lend me £10 and for the pleasure of withdrawing the cash from their machine. They then do a transaction via my bank to theirs and for the pleasure of providing this service they charge me (£1.75) or 17.5% interest for 1 day.

17.5%???? Come on, something not right.

I can purchase something on my credit card, money I don't own and get charged less than 17.5% in a year never mind one day.

My advice, unless it is absolutely vital, do not use those that charge this amount.

It used to be quite common to have to pay to use other bank's ATMs as I recall. Then hardly any did - now the banks suddenly thought,
"hang on, we are supposed to screw the general public what are we thinking of?"

You're about to go into the Leadmill after queueing for 15 minutes. You suddenly realise you have no cash.

Do you:

a) Leave the queue and walk to the nearest cash machine (which is a few minutes walk away), then return only to have to queue up again,

or

b) Use the cash machine inside the Leadmill, knowing full well it'll charge you, but you can't be bothered with option (a).

I'm guessing most people, (especially young student types like me), would choose the second option. I have found myself in similar situatons in the past, where I can't be bothered to walk to the nearest hole in the wall, so use a machine that charges you. I realise that it is a rip-off and I don't really agree to it, but if it saves me the effort of finding a free cash machine then i'll pay.

While there are people like me, the machines that charge you will still exist.

Originally posted by John
The best way to look at it, they lend me £10 and for the pleasure of withdrawing the cash from their machine. They then do a transaction via my bank to theirs and for the pleasure of providing this service they charge me (£1.75) or 17.5% interest for 1 day.

17.5%???? Come on, something not right.

I can purchase something on my credit card, money I don't own and get charged less than 17.5% in a year never mind one day.

My advice, unless it is absolutely vital, do not use those that charge this amount.
Why not just draw £100 out? It'll still only charge you £1.75, which is only 1.75%

One of the dangers of using 'independent' cash machines (usually Alliance + Leicester cash machines in a branch of Spar) is that they don't tell you how much they'll charge after they're about to give you the money.

Now, as for the branch machines...the Halifax used to charge me £1 for the crime of withdrawing my cash from another bank. The Yorkshire bank didn't charge me for withdrawing my cash from their branch; HSBC didn't, but my own bank did.

If any bank had a reason to charge me, it would surely be the bank whose cash machine I used, not the one I bank with.

Originally posted by Abdul
If any bank had a reason to charge me, it would surely be the bank whose cash machine I used, not the one I bank with.

The bank you have an account with get charged a fee by the bank who own the machine which you use. Therefore your own bank would rather you use their own machines (because then they don't have to pay the fee to the other bank). If you use another bank's machine they charge you to cover the fee they have to pay and to persuade you to use their own machines in future.

Recently First Direct advised customers to just use cash machines once a week, in order to reduce fraud. Many people in the financial services industry suspect that First Direct's advice was really an attempt to reduce the amount they pay in fees to other banks when FD customers use other ATMs.

Originally posted by Andy
The bank you have an account with get charged a fee by the bank who own the machine which you use. Therefore your own bank would rather you use their own machines (because then they don't have to pay the fee to the other bank). If you use another bank's machine they charge you to cover the fee they have to pay and to persuade you to use their own machines in future.

Recently First Direct advised customers to just use cash machines once a week, in order to reduce fraud. Many people in the financial services industry suspect that First Direct's advice was really an attempt to reduce the amount they pay in fees to other banks when FD customers use other ATMs.

First Direct do not have any machines of there own do they?? as they don't actually have any branches, you have to use the HSBC ones.

Originally posted by fuzzy
First Direct do not have any machines of there own do they?? as they don't actually have any branches, you have to use the HSBC ones.

Yes, but when FD customers use non-HSBC machines, FD are charged a fee by the owners of the machine.

I read an article today about banks wanting to start making ATM charging for withdrawals more widespread. I think it sort of defeats the purpose, as the whole point of ATM's being introduced was for efficiency and to ultimately reduce the queue inside banks. If they start charging we should all just never use them and make massive queues inside branches and would force branches to carry more cash and thus a higher risk!

Dont they work in the banks favour as much as ours!

Originally posted by youngmcgill
I read an article today about banks wanting to start making ATM charging for withdrawals more widespread. I think it sort of defeats the purpose, as the whole point of ATM's being introduced was for efficiency and to ultimately reduce the queue inside banks. If they start charging we should all just never use them and make massive queues inside branches and would force branches to carry more cash and thus a higher risk!

Dont they work in the banks favour as much as ours!

I think either you or the journo got the wrong end of the stick.
No banks currently charge (or are planning to charge) for cash machine use. There are 3rd party companies however who provide cash machines and do charge (else why would they provide the service). This is whats in the news today as some politician suddenly got a bee in his bonnet about them.

Cyclone, do you mean the cash dispensers you see in Spar shops and such ?

Originally posted by nick2
Cyclone, do you mean the cash dispensers you see in Spar shops and such ? Those seem to be the ones in question, the kind that started popping up in beer-offs and convenience stores, some even in pubs and bars.

I don't have a problem with these charging ATM's. Someone's had the gumption to set up a company, manufacture some kiosks and get them installed with an ISDN line in places where the banks can't afford to do it, or don't wish to do it. I've not seen one yet that doesn't state in large letters that it charges a fee - that's where the third party company makes money. If they weren't labelled adequately then that would be a problem.

Originally posted by nick2
Cyclone, do you mean the cash dispensers you see in Spar shops and such ?

yep, the stand alone ones. Often in spars, bars, one in ponds forge, etc...

Originally posted by hotphil
I don't have a problem with these charging ATM's. Someone's had the gumption to set up a company, manufacture some kiosks and get them installed with an ISDN line in places where the banks can't afford to do it, or don't wish to do it. I've not seen one yet that doesn't state in large letters that it charges a fee - that's where the third party company makes money. If they weren't labelled adequately then that would be a problem.

the argument is that the banks no longer feel like they need to provide them in rural places since some company will come along and plonk a charging one in local car garage.

I thought the Halifax bank of Scotland was the only high street bank in the UK to have added charges to their machines....not aware of any other. Link are going to jump on the bandwagon and start charging more than a quid for every transaction form their machines. Its reckoned the running cost of a withdrawal from an ATM is around 29p.

the argument is that the banks no longer feel like they need to provide them in rural places since some company will come along and plonk a charging one in local car garage.
Fair enough if you ask me - if people want to live in a rural area they shouldn't expect town-centre amenities to be provided by the banks. Allowing a third-party to do it seems quite a good idea actually.

I remember when I worked for a bank we used to get told not to use other bank's cash machines as all the banks inter-charge one another! Perhaps, rather than just stopping charging each other on a bizarre merry-go-round they're now seeking to pass on the costs to the customers directy for each transaction?

I think the biggest problem is that the banks have sold some of their machines to the companies that do charge a fees. So ones that were previously free - such as at petrol station forecourts, supermarkets, motorway service stations etc., ie the ones that are not situated outsdie a bank, are starting to charge and this is where the the furore will be.

Adequate labelling's the key then.

No i dont think so its a rip off

Originally posted by hotphil
Adequate labelling's the key then.

The banks already make huge profit from us (HSBC made the biggest profit for a UK bank ever last year), they should damn well provide access to our money where we want it.

ATM was in the news this evening and the 17.5% figure I gave in my example was nothing compared to 75% that was reported in the news.

Legalised robbery if you ask me.

I think it was ATMs at the post office the biggest offenders - so watch out and not all of them displays their charges.

According to what I've been hearing on the news today, the only machines that make a charge are those that are used less frequently than others. I went to Law Bros a few weeks ago and they have 2 cash machines - one on the left of the shop and one on the right. The one on the right now charges £1.75 to withdraw your money whilst the other one is still free:loopy:

Make sense of that if you can.

Mods - I feel a merger coming on :heyhey:

The other thread about ATM's (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17988)

I don't quite understand why these were merged. The topic is different, one is about independant machines charging and is currently in the news. The other was about banks cross-charging and isn't in the news.

I stopped at a service station the other day and was caught short. I sniffed around for a cash machine, but all I could find was one that charged £1.85 per transaction.

I fear this will become a growing trend, with these portable machines not only in addition to, but actively replacing, the old free-to-use machines.

The blighters!

Originally posted by Greenback
I stopped at a service station the other day and was caught short. I sniffed around for a cash machine, but all I could find was one that charged £1.85 per transaction.

I fear this will become a growing trend, with these portable machines not only in addition to, but actively replacing, the old free-to-use machines.

The blighters!

if you were at a service station and had your cash card, just pay with switch.

I've been reading this thread, and I'm not clear on something.

Are cash machines owned by banks or a third party the only place you can get cash? (obviously, aside from an actual bank)

In the states, banks also charge you for using cash (ATM) machines they don't own. I think it's unfair and greedy, but they make the rules.

However, just about every business, store, restaurant, etc. has it's own ATM machines at the registers where you pay. (And you could fit two of these machines in a shoebox. They're perched on the customer's side of the counter)You use your ATM card and pin# for the transaction, then it offers you the option of withdrawing cash. Up to $200 in increments of $20. They do not charge for this service. It's free.

This system of being able to withdraw cash at stores etc. has been in use at least 20 years. The very first ATM card I remember getting was back in 1980/81, when I was in college. I believe it was at Wells Fargo.

Because of this, I have not used an actual bank ATM machine in at least 10 years.

The worst charge I've ever seen is the corner gas station where I fill up. They charge .35 cents per transaction, which I gladly pay as it saves me the trouble of going inside.

We rarely actually go to the bank, as we have direct deposit for everything else. If I know I'm going to need cash, I withdraw it while I'm buying milk or bread or something. But we don't carry much cash, we use our ATM cards just about everywhere.

We've done this all over the country with no problem. Including Washington DC which is 3000 miles from California.

Do you not use this system in the UK?

:) Sierra

Originally posted by Cyclone
if you were at a service station and had your cash card, just pay with switch.

True, but I was only buying a drink which would have left me under the £5 threshhold needed for cashback/switch.

Originally posted by Sierra
I've been reading this thread, and I'm not clear on something.

Are cash machines owned by banks or a third party the only place you can get cash? (obviously, aside from an actual bank)

In the states, banks also charge you for using cash (ATM) machines they don't own. I think it's unfair and greedy, but they make the rules.

However, just about every business, store, restaurant, etc. has it's own ATM machines at the registers where you pay. (And you could fit two of these machines in a shoebox. They're perched on the customer's side of the counter)You use your ATM card and pin# for the transaction, then it offers you the option of withdrawing cash. Up to $200 in increments of $20. They do not charge for this service. It's free.

This system of being able to withdraw cash at stores etc. has been in use at least 20 years. The very first ATM card I remember getting was back in 1980/81, when I was in college. I believe it was at Wells Fargo.

Because of this, I have not used an actual bank ATM machine in at least 10 years.

The worst charge I've ever seen is the corner gas station where I fill up. They charge .35 cents per transaction, which I gladly pay as it saves me the trouble of going inside.

We rarely actually go to the bank, as we have direct deposit for everything else. If I know I'm going to need cash, I withdraw it while I'm buying milk or bread or something. But we don't carry much cash, we use our ATM cards just about everywhere.

We've done this all over the country with no problem. Including Washington DC which is 3000 miles from California.

Do you not use this system in the UK?

:) Sierra

some places offer a similar facility, cashback, whereby you say you'd like £50 in addition to your loaf of bread.
Not everywhere offers it though as the cash comes out of the till and some places would simply run out of cash.

Greenback - i've never seen a service station with a minimum, although i guess they might exist. It tends to be takeaways and pubs with those sorts of rules.

Originally posted by Cyclone
not sure on what grounds you're all so outraged at regarding the independant ones charging. Why they hell else should they provide them, for the love of it?

That's all very good to say that, but if you're somewhere where it's not as easy to get to a bank owned cash point, and there is a privately owned cashpoint there why do you think it is there? Perhaps you can't use your card for certain transactions there? like some places have them because you have to pay cash for drinks etc.
That's why they have them! So that you don't think 'oh, out of money, let's go home' you think 'i'll get some more out' and spend more money with them! It's not for your convenience!

Originally posted by Lotti
That's all very good to say that, but if you're somewhere where it's not as easy to get to a bank owned cash point, and there is a privately owned cashpoint there why do you think it is there? Perhaps you can't use your card for certain transactions there? like some places have them because you have to pay cash for drinks etc.
That's why they have them! So that you don't think 'oh, out of money, let's go home' you think 'i'll get some more out' and spend more money with them! It's not for your convenience!

and what's your point, they aren't running a charity, they are running a business.

Originally posted by Cyclone
some places offer a similar facility, cashback, whereby you say you'd like £50 in addition to your loaf of bread.
Not everywhere offers it though as the cash comes out of the till and some places would simply run out of cash.

Ahhh, thanks Cyclone.

I KNEW there had to be something similar. Must be more prevalent in the US then. I never thought about businesses running out of cash, they always seem to have money for cashback transactions.

:) Sierra

Well, not wanting to argue, I just think, it's not like they offer these machines for your convenience which I could sort of understand them charging for, they offer them so that you can spend more money. If you're going to spend more money there they shouldn't charge you to do so.

If they were doing it just for your convenience, I wouldn't expect it to be free.

I know they're not running charities, but some people just rip you off. Isn't it true they can set their own tariffs on them things? I can understand if there is a charge for them to connect to the bank, but it can't really cost what they charge you! :suspect:

Originally posted by Lotti
Well, not wanting to argue, I just think, it's not like they offer these machines for your convenience which I could sort of understand them charging for, they offer them so that you can spend more money. If you're going to spend more money there they shouldn't charge you to do so.

If they were doing it just for your convenience, I wouldn't expect it to be free.

I know they're not running charities, but some people just rip you off. Isn't it true they can set their own tariffs on them things? I can understand if there is a charge for them to connect to the bank, but it can't really cost what they charge you! :suspect:

they have to buy the machine as well, and employ people to stock it up with money, it doesn't run itself.

Seriously, they are running a business, do you expect the pub to give you free crisps? Why should the companies running these independant cash machines do it for free, how would they do it for free, they'd go out of business. Putting the cash points in places where you are likely to spend money is just common sense, why would they put them anywhere else???
An argument that the charges are very high I would probably agree with, but I can't agree that they should be free as they simply wouldn't exist then.

This is true Cyclone, but the point I was making was that they still rip you off, fair enough if they need to charge for the upkeep (although they don't charge you to use the toilets and yet somebody has to clean them) but (and I know you have already said you agree) but the point I was makin was they rip you off by charging too much!

And no, I'm quite willing to pay for my crisps!

Originally posted by Lotti
This is true Cyclone, but the point I was making was that they still rip you off, fair enough if they need to charge for the upkeep (although they don't charge you to use the toilets and yet somebody has to clean them) but (and I know you have already said you agree) but the point I was makin was they rip you off by charging too much!

And no, I'm quite willing to pay for my crisps!

the pub provides the toilets, you are paying them for beer.
the cash point is not provided by the pub or shop or whatever it's an independant company.

They need to charge to have a reason to exist, which is to say to make a profit.