If Gordon Brown became leader of Labour party in time for the next election would it make you change your mind to vote Labour?

Or would Gorden Brown make you vote elsewhere?

Or would a change of leadership make no different?

Does it really matter?
I'd give politicians some time if they lived in the real world but unfortunately most of them though not all seem to be out to make a name for themselves and don't listen to what the 'common man' actually wants.
I'm not going to start ranting but far too many of them seem to live in 'cloud cuckoo land'

Who can do any better than T Blair?. No one springs to mind!

I think all round TB has done a half decent job. alright he hasn't delivered on EVERYTHING but then not all previous leaders have either.

I dont agree with some of his policies, but then thats how it goes!

I would still vote for Labour.

Meh, Labour will stay in anyway... Cos nobody wants the Tories back in for obvious reasons, and the Lib Dems don't have any worthwhile policies.

And don't even go there about the likes of BNP,

What sickens me about Gordon Brown is the way he has slagged off TB & pulled him down at every opportunity behind his back & then preaches unity in the Labour party.At the conference yesterday was the worst case of Brown nosing by Brown I have ever seen. I would not vote for Brown on those grounds.TB has made some mistakes but not as many as Thatcher & Major between the pair of them they destroyed our country.The pensioners moan about having less money,the Labour Party has given them £300 per year heating allowance & raises in the pensions that they never got under the Tories.The minimum wage to stop bent employers from exploiting there workforce.The Tories will never get back in with the shower they have now & the Libs are a joke.

I don't think it would make any difference for me... I will probably still vote Labour, seeing as they are still the best option.

I'll still be voting Tory so it won't change my vote. However, I think Gordon Brown being PM would be more dangerous because he is a lot more "old" Labour than Tony Blair. I think if he was PM, the swing voters who changed to New Labour/ Lib Dems in 1997 would swing back to the Tories once they realised how much more of their hard earned income he would tax to "redistribute".

....I would still vote Labour......when the Tories were in, they really irritated me. I cannot stand Micheal Howard. When he was Home Secretary he was an absolute w%£$*r.


I think Gordon Brown would make a good Prime Minister..at least he aint married to someone who has a "post box" mouth!

Originally posted by t020
I'll still be voting Tory so it won't change my vote. However, I think Gordon Brown being PM would be more dangerous because he is a lot more "old" Labour than Tony Blair. I think if he was PM, the swing voters who changed to New Labour/ Lib Dems in 1997 would swing back to the Tories once they realised how much more of their hard earned income he would tax to "redistribute". tish and tosh. it's brown who's been behind all the PFI & privatisations. He's absolutely hooked on them. A slight rise in oincome tax for higher earners would probably follow, but only back to the levels it was for the vast majority of the thatcher govt (50%, and then only for those on over 100k or something). No different to Blair at all in reality.

So I still wouldn't vote Labour.

Originally posted by t020
I'll still be voting Tory so it won't change my vote.

Me too.

Originally posted by commie pig
tish and tosh. it's brown who's been behind all the PFI & privatisations. He's absolutely hooked on them. A slight rise in oincome tax for higher earners would probably follow, but only back to the levels it was for the vast majority of the thatcher govt (50%, and then only for those on over 100k or something). No different to Blair at all in reality.

So I still wouldn't vote Labour. Hi mate I don't care a t**s about the Tories if they got back in that would be the end of life as we know it JIM.

Originally posted by tosh13
Hi mate I don't care a t**s about the Tories if they got back in that would be the end of life as we know it JIM.

Yes it would be - lower taxes, less crime, no tuition fees and a cap on asylum seekers.

t020 I totally agree to disagree except asylum seekers.

I don't, they have also promised to re-introduce the rolling road car tax scheme to for cars over 20 years old. Labour froze the scheme when the came to power.

Cheaper driving for me then :cool:

Originally posted by Skatiechik
I don't, they have also promised to re-introduce the rolling road car tax scheme to for cars over 20 years old. Labour froze the scheme when the came to power.


Another example of a "stealth" tax.

Originally posted by tosh13
Hi mate I don't care a t**s about the Tories if they got back in that would be the end of life as we know it JIM.
mmm, hadn't noticed that there had been a post by someone called 'tosh' when i wrote it..sorry bout that!
Originally posted by t020 Yes it would be - lower taxes, less crime, no tuition fees and a cap on asylum seekers.
lol yeah cos that's just what happened last time your lot were in wasn't it? Lower taxes for the well off maybe....

And is that a cloth cap? Will they have special badges on too? :)

Three little words spring to mind whenever anyone mentions MT or the (s)Tories and taxes...


THE

POLL

TAX


Which is why they'll remain a spent force for many more years yet (especially when some of MT's cabinet are still directly involved with (s)Tory policy making).

As for voting Labour if GB takes over.... I will be taking the same course of action I have in recent years (that of "spoiling" my ballot paper) as I am unable to find much in any of the candidates that are fielded in Sheffield for any political party.

Originally posted by t020
Yes it would be - lower taxes, less crime, no tuition fees and a cap on asylum seekers.
You can't cap asylum seekers - ie, the number of people saying "can I stay here?". You can only cap the number you say "yes" to.

It's like saying you can cap how much it rains instead of capping how wet people get.

--
JGH

Originally posted by commie pig

lol yeah cos that's just what happened last time your lot were in wasn't it? Lower taxes for the well off maybe....



It was Thatcher that cut the now 22% band down from 33%, so not just lower taxes for the most wealthy, but lower taxes all round. "Our lot" believe in a smaller government with less intervention and bureaucracy, with people having the opportunity to create their own wealth and not be bogged down by tax.

Originally posted by t020
It was Thatcher that cut the now 22% band down from 33%, so not just lower taxes for the most wealthy, but lower taxes all round. "Our lot" believe in a smaller government with less intervention and bureaucracy, with people having the opportunity to create their own wealth and not be bogged down by tax.

...........which means not giving a to$$ for anyone but yourself - MT destroyed this country, she ruined lives and split families. Not saying the Labour govt are doin a fabulous job but at least TB is trying to tackle some of the problems in society that 20 years of tory misrule caused.

Maybe t020 should go down Treeton and mention Thatcher!

Originally posted by ladyovmanor
...........which means not giving a to$$ for anyone but yourself - MT destroyed this country, she ruined lives and split families. Not saying the Labour govt are doin a fabulous job but at least TB is trying to tackle some of the problems in society that 20 years of tory misrule caused.

So are those people who bought their council house in the early 90's courtesy of Maggie Thatcher going to say she ruined their lives in the current property boom?

I know my family have made in excess of 100% on their property.

Originally posted by ladyovmanor
...........which means not giving a to$$ for anyone but yourself - MT destroyed this country, she ruined lives and split families. Not saying the Labour govt are doin a fabulous job but at least TB is trying to tackle some of the problems in society that 20 years of tory misrule caused.


It was actually 18 years, and it left the country in a far better position (4th strongest economy) than when Thatcher inherited it in 1979. The Tories still get the most votes overall (I think from the last election the totals were something like 11million Tory Vs 10million Labour) so Tory voters are actually in the majority, despite the pit village mentality of most of South Yorkshire.

Originally posted by t020
It was actually 18 years, and it left the country in a far better position (4th strongest economy) than when Thatcher inherited it in 1979. The Tories still get the most votes overall (I think from the last election the totals were something like 11million Tory Vs 10million Labour) so Tory voters are actually in the majority, despite the pit village mentality of most of South Yorkshire. Pit Village mentality's,there are no Pit Villages left because Thatcher not only destroyed the mining industry,but most of the surrounding business's connected to the mining area's.I had my own garage at the time ,we survived the Winter of Discontent in the late 70s,but the miners strike destroyed us,because the once thriving pit villagers who had money suddenly had non,so that meant village economies died.My brother lost his house & he voted for Maggie & still votes for them to this day.I could not understand his logic.The Tories sold off everything in sight.The Labour party of the mid 70s were in trouble from day one because of the idiot Ted Heath,he started the decline of industry in our country in the early 70s.When we had 3 day weeks & non stop power cuts.What was Labour left with after that,I agree that some of the things Labour did were poorly done ,but compared to Heath,Thatcher & Major Labour have done really well with a few mistakes.TB admitted yesterday in his speach that the WMD came from bad intellegence,but he put his hand up & admitted to his mistakes thats more than the Tories have done.Has Thatcher ever apologised for the Poll Tax no,destroying the coal industry & steelworks & small businesses & to the many people who lost there houses.A BIG NO.A friend hanged himself because his business collapsed & he blamed Thatcher & he voted Tory all his adult life.

I certainly wont vote for Labour under Tony Blair, because

1 He does not seem to be interested in addressing inequality in society (I know since Clause 4 has gone Labour are not supposed to believe in equality anyway!)

2 He is more interested in his own reputation than sorting the country out (I don't think he doesn't care about anything, just that he cares MORE about his reputation)

See, absolutely nothing to do with Iraq, or his attitude to the US under Bush. I don't like what he has done on those two things, but he has done what any Prime Minister would have done (but I do think the Tories would have been more honest over their reasons for going into Iraq)


I would definitely consider voting for Labour under Gordon Brown, but I don't think he is ever going to be the leader.

Originally posted by tosh13
Has Thatcher ever apologised for the Poll Tax no,destroying the coal industry & steelworks & small businesses & to the many people who lost there houses.A BIG NO.

I won't quote it all is it is too long.

Thatcher didn't destroy the coal industry, why carry on doing something if it is uneconomical for the country? It doesn't make sense, and it didn't make sense to Maggie Thatcher either.

The same is happening now with the steel industry. Why make it here, when they can make it cheaper and better abroad?

Look on the wider scale of things, and you will see most decisions for the economy make sense.

With regards to Poll Tax, it is still here today just under a different guise 'Council Tax'

Originally posted by Skatiechik
I won't quote it all is it is too long.

Thatcher didn't destroy the coal industry, why carry on doing something if it is uneconomical for the country? It doesn't make sense, and it didn't make sense to Maggie Thatcher either.

The same is happening now with the steel industry. Why make it here, when they can make it cheaper and better abroad?

Look on the wider scale of things, and you will see most decisions for the economy make sense.

With regards to Poll Tax, it is still here today just under a different guise 'Council Tax' Thatcher did destroy the coal industry,in the early 70s when Ted Heath was prime minister & basically the coal industry with the help of others brought down the Tory government & she vowed to sort out the unions if she was ever prime minister & as for better steel abroad, Sheffield is still famous for its quality of steel products & cheap they are you get what you pay for from China ,Taiwan etc.

Originally posted by Yodameister
I certainly wont vote for Labour under Tony Blair, because

1 He does not seem to be interested in addressing inequality in society (I know since Clause 4 has gone Labour are not supposed to believe in equality anyway!)

2 He is more interested in his own reputation than sorting the country out (I don't think he doesn't care about anything, just that he cares MORE about his reputation)

See, absolutely nothing to do with Iraq, or his attitude to the US under Bush. I don't like what he has done on those two things, but he has done what any Prime Minister would have done (but I do think the Tories would have been more honest over their reasons for going into Iraq)


I would definitely consider voting for Labour under Gordon Brown, but I don't think he is ever going to be the leader. The Tories honest don't make me laugh,how many have been in trouble with the law over the last 40 odd years.Lord Archer for one,David(Suck my toes)Mellor etc & they would have been honest about iraq M Howard said he backed the Labour government over Saddam & then changed his tactics,typical Tory.

Originally posted by tosh13
Thatcher did destroy the coal industry,in the early 70s when Ted Heath was prime minister & basically the coal industry with the help of others brought down the Tory government & she vowed to sort out the unions if she was ever prime minister & as for better steel abroad, Sheffield is still famous for its quality of steel products & cheap they are you get what you pay for from China ,Taiwan etc.

I may be wrong Tosh but I am sure that I once read that Sheffield turns out more steel now than it ever did, but does it with much less man power.

As a point of interest tosh, who do you blame for allowing the hemorrage of call centre jobs to India then? Can't blame Mrs T for that now can we? Think it's a case of the pot calling the kettle grimey arse (to use one of my old granny's expressions).

Believe me I have no admiration for the Tories, and cannot see myself ever voting for them for the foreseeable future (I think hell freezing over is marginally more likely)

However, in this case I believe they would not have been ashamed of saying that they were going with the US unquestioningly because they are our allies.

They would not have made up a cock and bull story about "weapons of mass destruction" - or at least would not have based their entire argument upon it.

Originally posted by tosh13
Sheffield is still famous for its quality of steel products & cheap they are you get what you pay for from China ,Taiwan etc.

I thought we were talking about the 'Steel Industry', you know where you melt scrap metal, shove it in a furnace add a few other ingredients, roll it out and you get steel rather than the actual products that can be produced from it.

It is a well known fact it is cheaper to make steel abroad. Why do you think Corus decided to buy out a South American company last year. Although the deal fell through it proves my point.

As for when I stated better, I had in mind that we can't even create full size rails here in britain, or even create rails that compete at a suitable price. Workington won't even be here in a few years time. All our manufucturing processes are antiquated compared to other countries, who have built modern plants with modern technology.

I said Steel Products meaning all the steel industry in Sheffield whats left of it,Like I said earlier I had my own business (Garage& MOT Centre) & most of my business friends suffered at the hands of the Tories in one way or another.Ok the late 70s rates were horrendous in Sheffield at the time thats why we moved our business from the Wicker to Old Row,Wath Road.Barnsley.No governement is perfect but the Tories & I am certain that most people will agree they suffered more at the hands of the Tories than Labour.

Trainers are cheaper to make in east Asian sweat shops, paying virtual slave wages in incredibly unsafe and unsanitary conditions.

That is also a well known fact.

It doesn't make it right to follow policies or behaviour that encourages the practice.

A similar principle (though maybe not as exaggerated applies to Steel)

Originally posted by Skatiechik
So are those people who bought their council house in the early 90's courtesy of Maggie Thatcher going to say she ruined their lives in the current property boom?

I know my family have made in excess of 100% on their property.

That's another of Maggie Thatcher's sins... the selling off of council houses. Lots of families in Sheffield are a lot worse off because of it... people who are having to live in overcrowded conditions because of the shortage of 3 and 4 bedroomed council houses!

Originally posted by Patchy
That's another of Maggie Thatcher's sins... the selling off of council houses. Lots of families in Sheffield are a lot worse off because of it... people who are having to live in overcrowded conditions because of the shortage of 3 and 4 bedroomed council houses!

But then again the housing situation is not helped when Sheffield Labour Council are off loading their housing stock to housing associations etc.

Originally posted by Yodameister
Trainers are cheaper to make in east Asian sweat shops, paying virtual slave wages in incredibly unsafe and unsanitary conditions.

That is also a well known fact.

It doesn't make it right to follow policies or behaviour that encourages the practice.

A similar principle (though maybe not as exaggerated applies to Steel) It's terrible about Asian sweatshops & like you I do not approve of them,ask Man utd they have been doing it for years ,footballs & kits made there for a pittance.They should be prosecuted greedy so & so's

Originally posted by John
If Gordon Brown became leader of Labour party in time for the next election would it make you change your mind to vote Labour?

Or would Gorden Brown make you vote elsewhere?

Or would a change of leadership make no different?



I WILL VOTE LABOUR, WHOSOEVER IS THE LEADER, VOTING ANY OTHER WAY IS TO BRING DISASTER ON ALL OF US IN BRITAIN.


YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!! :clap:

I had to leave the UK during Thatcher's fascist rule. The place was like somewhere suffering war deprivation. Miners getting thumped on the head...Almost everyone on the dole...When I came back, well into Labour's term, I couldn't believe the extent to which everything had prospered. Thatcher had some lame brain idea about making the UK into the USA. I can't imagine the Tories ever gaining power again. Blair might not be the ideal PM (has children's blood on his hands), but there's plenty of the comprehensive school lot who would be. CALLASSA.

Originally posted by Callassa
I can't imagine the Tories ever gaining power again. Blair might not be the ideal PM (has children's blood on his hands), but there's plenty of the comprehensive school lot who would be. CALLASSA.

Labour would never have got into power if it wasn't for Tony Blair though. He dragged the Labour party from far left, bitter socialists to a party nearer the centre, stealing many Tory ideas, and making the party electable in the process.

The rest of your post isn't really worth answering because, as I've already said, the state of the economy was much better post-Tory 18 year rule than pre-Tory 18 year rule.

Originally posted by Mo
But then again the housing situation is not helped when Sheffield Labour Council are off loading their housing stock to housing associations etc.

The council are not 'off loading' houses to Housing Assocaitions. The proposed stock transfer IIRC has not even been agreed yet, having said this it will probably go ahead. But I dont see how it would harm the housing situation - the bottom line is the council cannot afford the kind of money needed to bring all of its stock 'up to date'. Registered Social Landlords will be able to do the work required and hopefully much more.

Originally posted by t020
Labour would never have got into power if it wasn't for Tony Blair though. He dragged the Labour party from far left, bitter socialists to a party nearer the centre, stealing many Tory ideas, and making the party electable in the process.

The rest of your post isn't really worth answering because, as I've already said, the state of the economy was much better post-Tory 18 year rule than pre-Tory 18 year rule.

Just to make this clear.........Thatchers politics had absolutely nothing to do with Conservatism and all to do with Classical Liberalism. Conservatism believes in paternalism and looking after those 'beneath' you or the 'trickledown' effect.

and secondly, if the economy is your argument then you have to agree that the economy under Labour is much better than it was under20 years of tory mis management. you do remember the early 90's dont you?????????????

Originally posted by ladyovmanor
The council are not 'off loading' houses to Housing Assocaitions. The proposed stock transfer IIRC has not even been agreed yet, having said this it will probably go ahead. But I dont see how it would harm the housing situation - the bottom line is the council cannot afford the kind of money needed to bring all of its stock 'up to date'. Registered Social Landlords will be able to do the work required and hopefully much more.


I'm sure that it will go ahead too.

What I'm saying is that this housing stock belongs to everbody in the city and they have no right to 'give it away' like this. Do you not wonder why they can't afford to repair and maintain council housing now when they managed in the past? Tell me what has changed? I'm all ears.

Originally posted by halevan
I WILL VOTE LABOUR, WHOSOEVER IS THE LEADER, VOTING ANY OTHER WAY IS TO BRING DISASTER ON ALL OF US IN BRITAIN.


YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED !!! :clap:

Why are you shouting Hal?

Originally posted by Mo
I'm sure that it will go ahead too.

What I'm saying is that this housing stock belongs to everbody in the city and they have no right to 'give it away' like this. Do you not wonder why they can't afford to repair and maintain council housing now when they managed in the past? Tell me what has changed? I'm all ears.

I would guess that local govt hasnt got the same amount of money devolved from central govt as it used to.

Im not talking about repairing and maintaing - the council stock is in DESPERATE need of major refurb work to bring it up to new building reg's. They have made a start in some areas with new kitvhens and bathrooms - other areas have had the 'frontage' (is that a word?!) seen to - driveways etc. they simply cannot afford to bring all the the stock in line with what it should be.

Originally posted by ladyovmanor

and secondly, if the economy is your argument then you have to agree that the economy under Labour is much better than it was under20 years of tory mis management. you do remember the early 90's dont you?????????????


Only because of the foundations laid by the *18* year Tory rule. Brown kept spending policies in line with those he inherited in 1997 for the first 3 - 4 years, so Labour haven't actually been running the economy for very long, and it is way too early to judge whether or not it has been done successfully (he's had to borrow an awful lot of money, impose new taxes, and we're yet to see the long term effects of the housing market situation and growing consumer debt).

Originally posted by t020
Only because of the foundations laid by the *18* year Tory rule. Brown kept spending policies in line with those he inherited in 1997 for the first 3 - 4 years, so Labour haven't actually been running the economy for very long, and it is way too early to judge whether or not it has been done successfully (he's had to borrow an awful lot of money, impose new taxes, and we're yet to see the long term effects of the housing market situation and growing consumer debt).

Agreed, Brown has some of the same fiscal ideologies as the Major Govt in particular, also agree that he has only 7 years in the job. What you cant deny though, is he has managed to keep the economy pretty much on the up during this time. You also surely have to admit you were wrong in 1997 when all you tories were saying, "Labour cant be trusted with the economy" etc etc etc.

You know Thatcher once said that high unemployment was a neccesary factor to achieve low inflation. Well yes, she achieved low inflation etc, but at the price of millions of working men and women.

I cant believe it took the British Public 20 years (PMSL) to wake up to them.

Originally posted by Mo
Why are you shouting Hal?




I am shouting Mo, because some people don't listen if one speaks quietly.:rant: :loopy: :heyhey:

Aside from the fact that Brown stole Kenny Clarke's clothes while he was bathing [and credit for what Kenny achieved], our Caledonian friend has taken far too much from the middle classes. I wouldn't vote Labour in a million years, and it would be a billion before I voted for a Brown- led Labour Party. I am sick of Labour, Blair, Brown and the whole lot of them. The whole "Third Way" Project is the product of half-baked sociologists like Etzioni and Anthony Giddens; sounds okay in the lecture theatre, but doesn't work in real life. Labour will always be about high taxation, utopian panaceas, international idealism, and the big, interfering, nannying, state.

If Gordon Brown became leader of Labour party in time for the next election would it make you change your mind to vote Labour?

Or would Gorden Brown make you vote elsewhere?

Or would a change of leadership make no different?

Well he has become leader and as a result I think a lot of people will not be voting Labourat the election. It might not affect the situation in Sheffield too much, but in the rest of the country it will be decicive.

Well he has become leader and as a result I think a lot of people will not be voting Labourat the election. It might not affect the situation in Sheffield too much, but in the rest of the country it will be decicive.

Why do you want to get rid of him or are you going to play the "I am unable to think for myself, please don't ask me difficult questions!" card.

Why do you want to get rid of him or are you going to play the "I am unable to think for myself, please don't ask me difficult questions!" card.

Because he is a crap Prime Minister who has caused untold damage to the country.

Because he is a crap Prime Minister who has caused untold damage to the country.

For that read "I am unable to think for myself, please don't ask me difficult questions!"

The council are not 'off loading' houses to Housing Assocaitions.

It's actually the other way round (in that HAs have to hand over a % of their housing for the council - SYHA are now no longer taking applications from the public, they're dealing directly with SCC).

For that read "I am unable to think for myself, please don't ask me difficult questions!"

Funnily enough I am not answerable to you, and I at least have answered the question posed by the thread. You merely want to attack anyone who isn't a signed up member of the Labour Party.

Funnily enough I am not answerable to you, and I at least have answered the question posed by the thread. You merely want to attack anyone who isn't a signed up member of the Labour Party.

Are you the mad Irish woman, PV?

Funnily enough I am not answerable to you, and I at least have answered the question posed by the thread. You merely want to attack anyone who isn't a signed up member of the Labour Party.

No I don't, I don't agree with a fair few others on here but with them I know what I'm disagreeing with them over.

With you I know we'll vote differently, but I have no idea who and why you'll be voting for your preferred party of choice.

No I don't, I don't agree with a fair few others on here but with them I know what I'm disagreeing with them over.

With you I know we'll vote differently, but I have no idea who and why you'll be voting for your preferred party of choice.

We do now!

Thread resurrected from 2004 - closed. Current thread on the subject of Gordon Brown here: http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=341601&highlight=Gordon+Brown