has anyone else looked into it over the barriers? they've uncovered part of the old city remains. Just wondering what used to be there though.....Is it really old and part of castle grounds or just what was there before the roads??

shouldn't think it will be part of the castle (unless its bigger than i was lead to believe) as that is under castle markets. when i had a nosy a week or so ago it seemed to be mainly brick structures so probably much more modern... tho i would also like to find out what it is... i'm just a nosy archaeologist!!!

It could be the culvert that takes the river sheaf across that section of city from behind dyson/sheaf house offices to the bridge on ponds forge/interchange were the river reappears.

It's the remains of an old dam built to use the power of the river for an old iron works, there was another dam further along. The dam itself is under Sheaf house and it ran down Sheaf square to Pond forge. It pre-dates the station and the only building from it's time is the Howard pub which the good old council wanted to knock down in this redevelopment too:rolleyes:

I asked one of the people who were digging it up the other day.

where is this hole near the trainstation?

It's the triangular bit of land between the station front, Sheaf Street and Sheaf House, which used to be part of the old pay and display car park (before the multi-storey was built). They are building the new public square there and the developers agreed to let archeologists do some work for a few weeks between it being dug up and being developed, as it will probably be the only chance to properly examine the remains there.

time team coming to a train station near you!

Could someone take some digital pictures of this hole and post them so we can all have a look from the comfort of our arm chairs?

Nomme

Will the river Sheaf be uncovered at all in this new redevelopment by the station?

Could someone grab some photos? I'd be interested to see what's been (and will be) uncovered.

Some of you wanted photos of the dig outside Midland Station, so I went to town and took some:

Photo 1 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig1.JPG)
Photo 2 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig2.JPG)
Photo 3 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig3.JPG)
Photo 4 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig4.JPG)
Photo 5 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig5.JPG)

Enjoy.

Great pictures, cheers!

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
Some of you wanted photos of the dig outside Midland Station, so I went to town and took some:

Enjoy.

Excellent. Thanks very much!

Nomme

(p.s. love the picture of Dangermouse & Penfold on your wall!) :heyhey:

My what a big hole!
Apparently it's going to be turned into a delightful public square with seats and even the posibility of an open air seating area to drink a coffee.
I can't wait to get the chance to sit and breathe in carbon monoxide fumes as there don't seem to be any plans to close that extremely busy road. Could I sue the planning department of the city council if I get lung cancer?

Originally posted by nomme
(p.s. love the picture of Dangermouse & Penfold on your wall!) :heyhey:
Now now ;) Just look at the pictures of the hole ;)

Thanks Cap. they're great!

Originally posted by em3978
shouldn't think it will be part of the castle (unless its bigger than i was lead to believe) as that is under castle markets. when i had a nosy a week or so ago it seemed to be mainly brick structures so probably much more modern... tho i would also like to find out what it is... i'm just a nosy archaeologist!!!

The castle was fairly big, actually...

the thing is, practically all that remains of the castle are the foundations that are under the castle market. You can still access the cellars, and visit the ruins (usually on a Thursday) if you contact teh markets department you can get details.

It was "one of the ruins that Cromwell Knocked about a bit! as the old song went.

Sheffield was a Royalist stronghold, and the Roundhead troops gave the old place some "hammer", and bombarded it, and razed it practically to the ground.

PT

Originally posted by Plain Talker
The castle was fairly big, actually...

the thing is, practically all that remains of the castle are the foundations that are under the castle market. You can still access the cellars, and visit the ruins (usually on a Thursday) if you contact teh markets department you can get details.

PT

i knew the castle still existed under the market and as castles go was fairly big... i just didn't think it stretched as far as the hole in front of the station.

Originally posted by em3978
i knew the castle still existed under the market and as castles go was fairly big... i just didn't think it stretched as far as the hole in front of the station.

well, if you think, that the "Old Queens Head" is reputed to be the castle's laundry, and work out that, from the OQH it's only a couple of hundred yards to the train station... it isn't without the realms of possibility that the perimeter of the castle grounds could have stretched to there...

I believe that the perimeter actually extended up the hill from the Castle Market, as far as snig hill, covering an area right up castle street, to the top of where the Co-Op is, and down by the "old" couthouse, to Lady's Bridge

(I do not mean the actual castle's bailey or main buliding, as we think of when we look at conisborough castle or the tower of london's "White Tower", What I mean is the boundary wall.)

(thinks aloud......) I wonder if there are any maps that log the perimeter of the castle?

PT

This is actually quite interesting stuff - a good bit of brickwork and a great piece of history.

Of course, if we'd known it was in such good condition, we could have incorporated it into the design of the new square... hindsight is a wonderful thing. ;)

The outer edge of the Castle was along(ish) Commercial St. Outside the walls was the market and slaughterhouses. The stuff down by the Station is probably the remains of old mills that were along the Sheaf / Porter - like the Lead Mill (Yup, that's where the name is from).

The bit between was rather damp and you certainly wouldn't have put it inside your castle. That's where Pond St comes from. :thumbsup:

From memory, the outer enclosure was the Rivers Don / Sheaf (that's where the main gate & barracks was around Lady's Bridge), Angel St, Commercial St and back round. You're right - it was a VERY big and impressive castle.

The Old Queens Head post dates the stone castle by some time, but it may well have been its laundry in the castles later years. The original was a wooden Norman castle from much earlier still.

I've heard talk that there may have been a Roman settlement on the site with a Brigantine fort before that. Might be loose talk though. :)

Most of the stone from the Castle was robbed out and you can find bits all over Sheffield in buildings and walls.

ISTR that lots of what you see under the Castle Market was restored and partially rebuilt during early archaeological investigations. TBH, you're better going up to Manor Lodge - it's much better and you can get to it.

To save you reading the above link, here's beastieboy's contribution that sums it up quite nicely:

Originally posted by Beastieboy
It's the remains of an old dam built to use the power of the river for an old iron works, there was another dam further along. The dam itself is under Sheaf house and it ran down Sheaf square to Pond forge. It pre-dates the station and the only building from it's time is the Howard pub which the good old council wanted to knock down in this redevelopment too

EDIT

oops, posted this on the wrong thread. Sorry! please see sheffield castle thread

Old maps of Sheffield

Right folks. If you'd like to get an idea of how the area around the Midland Station used to be, first go to

http://www.old-maps.co.uk/

Enter 'Sheffield' in the search box and then select Sheffield in Yorkshire [...just in case someone thinks we might be living in Cornwall]

When the map image comes up, click once on the red down arrow to move south a few degrees, then after the image reloads click on the button marked 'Enlarged View'. This will open a new window with a magnified view of the map.

You'll need to scroll around a bit to get your bearings, but in the centre of the map about half way down can be seen the junction of Paternoster Row, Howard Street and Pond Street. This of course is before the station was built and the several dams along the line of what is now Sheaf Street are clearly shown, - as are the dam and lead works alongside Leadmill Road.

These maps are from around 1850 and the search facility will find even small districts of Sheffield e.g. Fulwood, Burngreave, Shirecliffe etc., but if you can't find the exact place use somewhere near to it and then move the map using the arrows.

There are also a couple of old maps of Sheffield on this page...

http://www.yourmapsonline.org.uk/

...just click on the link for Yorkshire

Thanks Greybeard, I love old maps.
I wonder how hard it would be to convert a map into a 3D cityscape, like they do in archeology programs ?

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
Some of you wanted photos of the dig outside Midland Station, so I went to town and took some:

Photo 1 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig1.JPG)
Photo 2 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig2.JPG)
Photo 3 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig3.JPG)
Photo 4 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig4.JPG)
Photo 5 (http://www.smokefilledroom.co.uk/Gregsworld/Files/divers/Sheffstationdig5.JPG)

Enjoy.

Awwww! Where did they go? Did I miss them?

I've posted another old map of sheffield that details the area, sorry not sure of the date, if anyone can hazard a guess let me know.

Its here on my univerity site http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/~sam/shefmaps/
Reverend Sam

P.S. beware the files are quite large.

Originally posted by Strix
Awwww! Where did they go? Did I miss them?
I took them off like a week later man, you want them ?

Photos are back up, same place, same link.

EDIT: done.

PS: Photos will be up for a week :)

Thanks for that Captain! Saved them for future reference! Did they say the results of the dig would be published anywhere?

Dunno, I'm off tot' train station, will have a quick look at the sign ;)

I went to the site today hoping the site manager would be in to talk to again, but they had gone leaving the hole. I did notice however near the NMB they have dug up some tram tracks on Sheaf square.

Originally posted by Beastieboy
I went to the site today hoping the site manager would be in to talk to again, but they had gone leaving the hole. I did notice however near the NMB they have dug up some tram tracks on Sheaf square.
That should be worth a photo or two, the old tramway railway ruled ;)

Is Sheaf Square the area between the Howard and the Train Station?

Originally posted by Andy C
the developers agreed to let archeologists do some work for a few weeks between it being dug up and being developed, as it will probably be the only chance to properly examine the remains there.

Do you know which archeological group is doing the work, or how to contact them?

99% likely that it will be ARCUS which is the 'commercial' arm of the University Archaeological Dpt. Telephone 0114 222 2000.

It was done by WYAS on behalf of South Yorkshire Archaeology service. I dont have a number but i'm sure you can find it easily.

More photgraphs of the hole.

http://www.pbase.com/ptigga/dig

Great pics ptigga! Must get down there and take a look.

Beastieboy - who are WYAS ? West Yorkshire Archeological Service?

Originally posted by Tony
Great pics ptigga! Must get down there and take a look.

Beastieboy - who are WYAS ? West Yorkshire Archeological Service?

Good question, I will find out if I can.

I saw the hole yesterday, there's a placard explaining what they're doing. Interesting stuff.