Interested to know what people think they could expect from social services if they became disabled or chronically ill and found they could no longer do some things unassisted, such as prepare meals, bathe, clean their home, get out of bed etc.

Do you think social services would help you with all of these?

Do you think this would be free, or would you have to pay for it? If paying, how much?

What sort of quality of care and support do you think you could expect?

How much care and support do you think it is possible to get? Do you have a right to stay in your own home?

interesting question, and one i normally try to avoid. my grandparents are both in their late 80s and, one suspects, don't have much left in them. i think it'll probably be that not long after one dies, teh other will too as they seem to prop each other up. once one has died though the other will almost certainly need some form of help, although they're financially very secure so will probably just hire a live-in nurse, privately. but to answer your question, i would think maybe home assistance once or twice per day, but you probably have to go down the right channels to get it (for free). i doubt that would cover cleaning, but could probably cover meals, in/out of bed, dressing, washing. i think you probably have the right to stay in your own home unless you become a danger to yourself or others, and as far as i know there is no compulsion to ever sell your house (although lots of people are bullied in to doing so). my husband's grandmother ended up in hospital for a couple of weeks before she died, but had home assistance several times per week for years and years. she was bonkers, but not too bad physically - she could still look after herself, but couldn't shop for food, change bulbs, treat her bunions etc. she had further help from various friendly neighbours and old friends who looked out for her through 40+ years of bipolar disorder and schizophrenia...good friends indeed, as she wasn't very nice to anyone since before i met her about 7 years ago.

Interested to know what people think they could expect from social services if they became disabled or chronically ill and found they could no longer do some things unassisted, such as prepare meals, bathe, clean their home, get out of bed etc.

Do you think social services would help you with all of these?

Do you think this would be free, or would you have to pay for it? If paying, how much?

What sort of quality of care and support do you think you could expect?

How much care and support do you think it is possible to get? Do you have a right to stay in your own home?

For most people,a social worker would liase with other proffessionals who know the person,before applying for a home care package.They would also do a financial assessment to determine how much the person would have to pay towards this(a claim for attendence allowance may also be done,which isnt means tested,which should go part way to funding the home care)
The quality of the help varies from agency to agency and from carer to carer,but they can help with owt from washing/bathing/dressing to cooking food and doing some washing,up to 4 visits a day.
Finally,yes,you do have a right to remain at home,and residential care should only be considered as a last resort,after such a package has been put in place,and when this support is no longer enough.
:thumbsup:

After reading your posts on the other thread re home care,it is clear that you already know the answers to these questions? Why ask? Is this some kind of test????? :suspect:

After reading your posts on the other thread re home care,it is clear that you already know the answers to these questions? Why ask? Is this some kind of test????? :suspect:

I just think it's something people don't know much about, even though there's a reasonable chance they or someone they know might need it. So am interested to know how much people know.

I don't know much about social services remit except of cases relating to the welfare of children. I just keep thinking that I would be able to rely on family! I guess it would be pretty scary when I get older, and I am more frail, and everything. The outlook in this kind of situation certainly would be scary.

in reply to your qs about help for older people ,go look at the govt backed
Penderels trust .com

Moved to 'General Discussion'

I have to say that based on the experiences I had some years ago when my mother was ill, there was little practical help offered.

Based on this, I expect that by the time I may need it there will be very little State or Local Authority help available at all free of cost, so I hope to stay fit and robust for as long as possible.

There isn't much available now Joe! My mother in law is allowed to sit in her own excrement for hours on end.......because her paid carers aren't allowed to see to that side of things! All they are allowed to do for her is to make sure she gets out of bed/goes back to bed.......and put meals in front of her. They don't even have to cook the meals because we stock the freezer up. The bedding is left sopping wet through until one of us visits and sorts it out.
We all work, so we are limited as to the amount of care we can provide. We have no choice but to work because we all have mortgages etc. It is the daughters that the onus of responsability falls on mainly. We live many miles away anyhow......but the daughters live nearby and have to go on a daily basis in order to clean their mother up etc. They are both suffering from exhaustion etc. Mum does go into respite care about once a month, for a week. She has said that she wants to go into care permanently........but she will be dead before that happens!!
Mum's mind has gone......and she has no idea of what is going on around her. She has suffered from a series of mini strokes that have happened over the past 18 months. Each one robs her of a bit more of the person she once was.
She is now doubly incontinant, and totally unaware of it. She has a basket load of pills to take on a daily basis......but she has no idea at all of what the regime is/was. The carers have to be left a list of instructions to follow as to medication, and to be honest, they are not the best placed people to be administering drugs!! We have had several incidents when the wrong pills were given at the wrong times etc!! Anyhow........are these people even allowed to administer drugs?? It can't be very nice for them to be in charge of administering what could possibly be life saving/threatening drugs!!
I am dreading getting old, to the point where I might have to rely on others for my care. Given what I am witnessing right now.......I would rather die first. NOW......that is a really bad statement to be making......but I mean it.

Although I've been at loggerheads with the social services now and then,there is much more help available now,and if you don't like what they offer, apply for a direct payment then you can choose what carers you have.
Since April when the social services decided to change all the agency's, I understand that lots of people are applying for direct payments because they aren't happy with the agency's that the council have allocated to them, and with direct payments the government says that people can and should have more say in what help they get and who they want to give the service.
In the first instance, the social social worker decides what help is needed and for how long, then a company called Penderals trust does all the paperwork and advises on which services would be best.Someone has to be responsible for keeping all the paperwork up to date, and the service is means tested.Most of the time Penderals Trust advertise on the S/F jobs forum for cleaners/PA's or whatever has been decided
It is all about keeping people in their own homes if that is what
they want, and it is explained on thr Sheffield councils own web site. It's worth taking a look, because even if you don't need this info. now at least you'll be prepared if ever you do need it.

there is some confusion about direct payment , first of all there has to be a care need and the assessment process is done in the same way as if the client were having carers from the various agencies recommended by sheffield city council . if it is agreed the client needs care then at that point direct payment is discussed .

with direct payment the person needing the care becomes the employer and a separate bank account must be set up for sheffield city council to put the funds to pay for the hours of care needed.

Pendrells trust are there to help and advise about things like income tax and national insurance payments and holiday and sick payments to your employee. There are certain rules regarding direct payment and one of them being the carer can not live at the same address as the person being cared for.

i deal with social services calls on a daily basis and we often get people ringing in desperate for care as their carers have left or not turned up and are not reliable and in theses cases it is up to the client to find new employees and sometimes at short notice this is not always possible . so sometimes its not always the best option for some people who need regular care .

there is some confusion about direct payment , first of all there has to be a care need and the assessment process is done in the same way as if the client were having carers from the various agencies recommended by sheffield city council . if it is agreed the client needs care then at that point direct payment is discussed .

with direct payment the person needing the care becomes the employer and a separate bank account must be set up for sheffield city council to put the funds to pay for the hours of care needed.

Pendrells trust are there to help and advise about things like income tax and national insurance payments and holiday and sick payments to your employee. There are certain rules regarding direct payment and one of them being the carer can not live at the same address as the person being cared for.

i deal with social services calls on a daily basis and we often get people ringing in desperate for care as their carers have left or not turned up and are not reliable and in theses cases it is up to the client to find new employees and sometimes at short notice this is not always possible . so sometimes its not always the best option for some people who need regular care .

Employing someone is only one of the things you can do with a direct payment. In theory, you can do all sorts with it, provided this meets your assessed needs, although in practice some councils are more liberal than others in how much flexibility they give direct payments recipients. One of the most flexible examples I know of is from Essex, where someone with mental health problems wanted to move to another area after successfully completing rehab (I got the impression he needed to make a fresh start and be away from certain people). His mental health team agreed that this would be beneficial to his mental health, but because he had rent arrears in Essex, the other council wouldn't house him. They used a direct payment to pay off his rent arrears - a very creative solution.

Also, the carer or "personal assistant" can live at the same address as the disabled person if the council believes that this is the only satisfactory way for that person's needs to be met. There are a handful of examples in Sheffield, but it is very much the exception.

i know, thats why i said it is not as cut and dried as some people think . a client can have direct payment for all sorts of needs. a carer can live at the same address but only in special cases. it works for some of the people i speak to and they are quite happy. it is a quicker way of getting the care in place they need , rather than to go onto the waiting list for a provider .

Personally I would keep social services out of your buisness aslong as possible Ive had terrible times where they took my support away without even saying why and have done other underhand things where I have got my solicitors involved and threatened to sue them plus the social workers ive had have been baffoons and not known my history plus me and my family have known more about rules and regulations than them. They also seem to chuck student social workers into situations where it needs someone who knows alot in that field its basically cos of finances but surely they should put peoples needs first. This is just my oppinion I just feel sorry for the disabled people out there who dont have family support or who cant stand up for themselves cos they can be pushed arround where with me I kick there arse instead lol.

I am dreading getting old, to the point where I might have to rely on others for my care. Given what I am witnessing right now.......I would rather die first. NOW......that is a really bad statement to be making......but I mean it.

That is very sad :(

My dad, who was my mum's carer for the last couple of years before she died, has quite often said that he thinks he ought to kill himself now, while he is still fit, because he is so much dreading being ill and helpless and putting that burden on us, having witnessed how little real help is available. I am scared that he may really mean it.

That is very sad :(

My dad, who was my mum's carer for the last couple of years before she died, has quite often said that he thinks he ought to kill himself now, while he is still fit, because he is so much dreading being ill and helpless and putting that burden on us, having witnessed how little real help is available. I am scared that he may really mean it.

All 3 of my grandparents are now frail and elderly and needing care, and talking to them they're all finding it demoralising, depersonalising and depressing to be in that position.

My grandfather has gone from someone who used to go out to 'help the old folk' a couple of years ago (bearing in mind that at the time he was 90 and the people he'd help with their gardening and similar were in their 70s) to someone who has no choice but to sit in a chair and do nothing and he's not coping at all well with it.

Due to the NHS policy of refusing to treat the first eye that has sight problems with macular degeneration he's now totally blind (a haemorrhage in his good eye destroyed his macular and retina). He's also registered deaf and has 3 collapsed vertebrae in his lower back for which the doctors say there is no treatment apart from pain relief, so he can't move about, do his own cooking, look after himself or even read a book or watch TV.

He's appointed my parents to act as attorneys on his behalf in getting care and looking after his finances and all of us have commented that we really don't want to ever be in that position ourselves (and I won't have any children to look out for me and fight for the right care on my behalf either- without them all of my grandparents would be much worse off).

I don't expect the care to be there for free when I get older, but I do know that if I live to reach pensionable age then I won't be a wealthy pensioner, so I fully expect to be left in the lurch.

I havent heard a single good word about social services and have been incidentally involved in a case which went pear-shaped from a very early stage of their taking over a case which did not require their abusive interventions. Cant say any more than that because I believe the case is sub judice.