There are going to be changes to the train timetable from mid December which will give a fast train to Leeds every half hour, at 21 and 51 past the hour from Sheffield M-Sa daytime. The 21 past the hour is the current Virgin Train, the other one is created by changes on the Barnsley route.

The new departure pattern from Sheffield to West Yorks:
xx:08 All stations to Leeds via Barnsley
xx:15 All stations to Leeds via Rotherham & Bolton on Dearne
xx:21 Virgin Train to Wakefield Westgate, Leeds and beyond.
xx:38 All stations to Huddersfield via Barnsley
xx:51 to Leeds calling Meadowhall, Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate only

Originally posted by Andy C
There are going to be changes to the train timetable from mid December which will give a fast train to Leeds every half hour, at 21 and 51 past the hour from Sheffield M-Sa daytime. The 21 past the hour is the current Virgin Train, the other one is created by changes on the Barnsley route.

The new departure pattern from Sheffield to West Yorks:
xx:08 All stations to Leeds via Barnsley
xx:15 All stations to Leeds via Rotherham & Bolton on Dearne
xx:21 Virgin Train to Wakefield Westgate, Leeds and beyond.
xx:38 All stations to Huddersfield via Barnsley
xx:51 to Leeds calling Meadowhall, Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate only

About blummin' time too! The current services to Leeds are an absolute joke (Virgin train excepted)

Are these the new Pendolino trains? One broke the speed record from London to Manchester today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3671680.stm

Originally posted by alchresearch
Are these the new Pendolino trains? One broke the speed record from London to Manchester today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3671680.stm

Unlikely. Those are running on the West Coast Mainline where the track has been upgraded to allow them to run at 125 MPH.

On the line between Sheffield and Doncaster we still have the piece of single-track near Rotherham. Not a chance of getting a tilting train running along there.

It's a joke. When the Inter City 125 was launched it was designed to go at 125Mph. Even though it couldn't - because of poor quality track - they went ahead and developed and built a fleet of Inter City APT 150Mph trains.

They never saw service and are rotting on a siding outside Crewe.

What I want to know is when are we going to get a Sheffield - London hi-speed train? A real hi-speed train not the Midland Mainline "hi-speed". Doncaster - London has the GNER connection in 1 1/2 hours and they're further away!

Does anyone know what kind of times we would be looking at if we had 125mph Pendolino's? Would it stimulate the economy if people could commute to London from Sheffield (1 hr ride to St. Pancras isn't bad).

Originally posted by genesiscouch
Does anyone know what kind of times we would be looking at if we had 125mph Pendolino's? Would it stimulate the economy if people could commute to London from Sheffield (1 hr ride to St. Pancras isn't bad).

About 90 minutes maybe?

I would very much like to See Midland Mainline run services to Leeds.
Unfortunately, the Strategic Rail Authority has not allowed such a project.

Fortunately, the SRA is to be disolved so a frequent Leeds - St Pancras Service is possible.

I hope your sources are good, as I know for sure the idea was condemmened.

IF this comes into place, the trains will be HSt for the two morning and two evening trains, and the daytime trains would be class222 Meridians in either 4 or 9 car trains.

About 10 of those new trains have been delivered so far, and one 9 car train still beeing tested.

At least beeing a sad anorak does have its advantages.

Andy,

where do you get your info from ??:help:

I travel to York everyday and want to know if they are improving this service too..........

LL

How long will this new fast train via Barnsley take to get from Sheffield to Leeds.

Will it be the same 41mins the current 21min past the hour Virgin train takes?

58 mins - leaves Sheffield at xx:51 and gets to Leeds at xx:49, with stops at Meadowhall, Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate. Rolling stock is 'Sprinter' units, operated by the new Northern franchise that is taking over from Arriva Trains Northern.

Originally posted by LoopyLou
Andy,

where do you get your info from ??:help:

I travel to York everyday and want to know if they are improving this service too..........

LL

The service to York looks unchanged - half hourly Virgin service alternating between Doncaster and Leeds route, plus odd local train via Pontefract.

Hope this new service makes the Virgin service less busier, lost count how many times I have had to stand the whole journey between Sheffield and Leeds because there is not enough seats!:mad:

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
Hope this new service makes the Virgin service less busier, lost count how many times I have had to stand the whole journey between Sheffield and Leeds because there is not enough seats!:mad:

It's all about knowing where to stand on the platform, not how busy it is!

At Sheffield, keep walking down the platform in the direction the train comes from (the Dore end), and pass the crowds. The same goes for Leeds, keep walking past everyone, and stand near the steps/lift area just outside.
At both stations, everyone stands all together, and no-one bothers to walk down the platform, so get it right and you'll get a seat every time!

Well, with any luck it may spread the loads of those travelling Sheffield-Leeds, however people will travel at the time most convenient to them - and if that happens to be the Virgin one. Also remember of course the Virgin train is intended for longer distance travellers.

As for getting a seat on Virgin, don't forget you can get a reserved seat if you buy your ticket in advance.

Seat reservations will not be available on the new Northern train. There will also be no catering.

Originally posted by Andy C
58 mins - leaves Sheffield at xx:51 and gets to Leeds at xx:49, with stops at Meadowhall, Barnsley and Wakefield Kirkgate. Rolling stock is 'Sprinter' units, operated by the new Northern franchise that is taking over from Arriva Trains Northern.

Whos the new holder and when do they take over?
Also any urls?

Originally posted by alchresearch
Are these the new Pendolino trains? One broke the speed record from London to Manchester today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3671680.stm
Make that definitely not - Pendolinos are electrical power only, and Sheffield station isn't electrified yet.

Originally posted by Bookey
Whos the new holder and when do they take over?
Also any urls?

Serco Group and Dutch company NedRailways are taking over North Western Railways and Trains Northern following the SRA's decision to join both northern franchises.

The Northern franchise will start in autumn this year and will run for up to eight years and nine months, with the final two years dependent on achieving performance targets.

The Serco-NedRailways partnership also runs the Merseyrail franchise.

www.serco.co.uk

Ok

Anyone got a time table ;)

Originally posted by Bookey
Ok

Anyone got a time table ;)

Will remain the same for a while especially up to 11th december.

Aren't most people just going to continue with the Virgin train as it is much faster?

I think I read some where that Midland Mainline are unlikely to provide a reliable service by extending the Sheffield service to Leeds because of problems at the London end( building work at St Pancras etc) so the SRA had a rethink on the matter.
They were going to look at a possible Nottingham - Sheffield - Leeds service by Central trains( also part of National Express Group.

The Virgin service is pretty good most of the time, though I seem to remember the last one coming back in the evening is pretty early.

The current 'last train' from Leeds to Sheffield is a particular painful memory of mine. Some time ago I caught it and it took me 5 hours to get home......

It'll be a welcome service - at the moment it's frequently faster to get the National Express coach!

Joe

Beats me why anybody would want to get to Leeds in a hurry. Now getting away from Leeds is another matter.................

The timetable given earlier in this thread is accurate a source in the industry tells me.

This is the list of all trains leaving Sheffield to West Yorkshire:

xx:08 Trains Northern All stations to Leeds via Barnsley
xx:15 Trains Northern All stations to Leeds via Rotherham & Bolton on Dearne
xx:21 Cross Country to Wakefield Westgate, Leeds and beyond.
xx:38 Trains Northern All stations to Huddersfield via Barnsley
xx:51 Midland Mainline to Leeds calling Meadowhall, Barnsley, Wakefield Kirkgate only.

:thumbsup:

Same trains will come back at other times.

ENJOY ! (If you really must go to Leeds :gag: )

I think you will find the xx:51 is Northern Trains, not Midland Mainline....

Originally posted by Andy C
I think you will find the xx:51 is Northern Trains, not Midland Mainline....
Erm, no, its weems to be the new MM service ;)
It's a new service, not yet on timetable

The new timetable is now on the journey planners

www.nationalrail.co.uk
www.thetrainline.com
www.qjump.co.uk

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
(If you really must go to Leeds :gag: )

If you work there like me you dont have much choice!

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
Erm, no, its weems to be the new MM service ;)
It's a new service, not yet on timetable

i just read on a railway website forum that it is the northern trains company who will run it.

but they have put they thought mml would get it??!!

Good news on the improved train service. If it arrives in Leeds at XX:49 what time does it leave Barnsley?

Originally posted by jules
Good news on the improved train service. If it arrives in Leeds at XX:49 what time does it leave Barnsley?

Sheffield at xx:51
Meadowhall at xx:57
Barnsley at xx:12
Wakefield Kirkgate at xx:27
Leeds at xx:49

Cheers Andy I really hope this happens as M1 Barnsley to Leeds is not the best fun a person can have Monday to Friday!!

It should happen - it is in the winter timetable, which starts on Sunday 12th December, and the times are on the online journey planner - www.nationalrail.co.uk.

Just checked it out, the return times aren't so great if like me you finish work at 5.00 but I suppose I can't have everything. Thanks for posting this in the first place as if (when) it does happen then I'll be real chuffed at not having to sit in wall to wall M1 traffic every day.

It would be great if a few trains ran during the early hours too like between Sheffield and Manchester (Airport).

Whenever I go out for a drink in Leeds, I always have to catch the last Virgin 21:10 direct train back to Sheffield because the remaining trains back all take twice as long, which is pretty crap.:(

Originally posted by skyfitsboy
It would be great if a few trains ran during the early hours too like between Sheffield and Manchester (Airport).

ALL First/Keolis(SNCF) Trans Pennine services will NOT go to Manchester Airport but will ONLY go to Manchester Centre (Piccadily).

Originally posted by Captain_Scarlet
ALL First/Keolis(SNCF) Trans Pennine services will NOT go to Manchester Airport but will ONLY go to Manchester Centre (Piccadily).

I can assure you that is not at all true. The Transpennine Express timetable is indeed being recast in December and the stopping pattern and departure time being standardised each hour, but the Airport is still on he network. The Sheffield route (Cleethorpes to Manchester Airport) is pretty much unchanged between Sheffield and Manchester Airport. As far as I know the only route that is being cut back to Piccadilly is the Hull route.

I’m not sure if I'm missing a trick here, but where exactly are the improvements to the Sheffield-Leeds and Leeds-Sheffield timetables that have been so welcomed in the previous postings in this thread??

On their website, South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive have posted a news article (see http://www.sypte.co.uk/more/news/news2.html) that announces the increase in Leeds-Sheffield services and reduced journey times as, and I quote "an alternative to those using the congested M1 motorway and opening up new opportunities for those living and working in Barnsley, Sheffield and Leeds."

I too welcomed this announcement, but having investigated the proposed new timetable further, it would appear that nothing is going to change at all, particularly from the perspective of commuters (such as me) who travel the Sheffield to Leeds route on a daily basis (Mon-Fri).

There are currently only 2 viable "fast" services that connect Sheffield with Leeds in a morning that get in before 9am. These are:

07:12 arriving 07:52 (Virgin service that is nearly always delayed)
08:00 arriving 08:51 (Arriva service that is punctual but can be congested)

The "improved" new timetable however is a complete misnomer. According to the new timetable the services are now:

Virgin service - remains the same
07:52 arriving 08:49 (new service that replaces the current 08:00, takes slightly longer and now has additional stops)

All other services at this time remain the same, i.e. take well over an hour.

As for the return journey, the only current viable options are the xx:12 Virgin services, which again have a terrible punctuality record. It is not worth the hassle of getting a local stopping service in an evening as they too take well over an hour to get to Sheffield and it is here that the new services really need to deliver. Again, this is not the case – see proposed timetable below.

17:04 arriving 18:14 (1hr 10)
17:10 arriving 17:51 (Virgin service)
17:34 arriving 18:57 (1hr 23)
17:48 arriving 19:00 (1hr 12)
18:10 arriving 18:51 (Virgin service)

Discounting the Virgin services, the new timetable is a virtual carbon copy of the current timetable and in no way provides a viable alternative to local commuters between the two cities. Whilst I appreciate that this has improved commuter links with Barnsley, I can see absolutely no benefit whatsoever for Sheffield to Leeds commuters.

It is all well and good increasing the number of services during the day, but to have a real, tangible benefit to the local economy, by improving the commercial links and opening up opportunities, Yorkshire Forward and the local PTAs need to work with the train operators to increase the frequency of trains at peak periods, and by that I mean both morning and evening.

Further work needs to be done here if the proposed timetable changes are to meet their stated objectives. In the mean time I will soldier on with the only viable option available and that, I’m afraid, is Virgin Cross Country…

If anyone in the know has any comments on the above, I would like to hear them.

^ Great post.

As far as I am concerned, there are no "improvements" whatsoever.

I can't see anyone who gets one of the overcrowded Virgin Trains back to Sheffield switching to one of these new services due to the fact they take so long and stop everywhere.

Last year the 17.10 got so crowded that I remember times when they announced that the train would not leave unless people got off it due to overcrowding!!

All that is required are another 2 services in the morning and 2 in the evening that just call at mhall, wakefield and leeds only.

In addition, a fast train home after the 21.10 Virgin train would be nice!

On the new timetable expresses leave Leeds for Sheffield at 06:00, 07:05, 07:16, 07:26, 08:10 then xx:10 and xx:16 past each hour up to 16:16, then 17:10, 18:10, 18:16, 19:10, 19:16, 20:10, 20:16 and 21:10.

So pretty much every hour there is a second express at xx:16, except the one gap - there is no 17:16, presumably because there are extra local trains around that time taking up all the track capacity.

For those 5 o clockers using the 17:10 Virgin 2 things are needed really - for Virgin to make that train a double unit (minimum 8 cars long), and for commuters to get used to the idea that it is an Intercity train therefore you should reserve seats.

Thanks for the update Andy, however you failed to spot that I'm travelling from Sheffield to Leeds in a morning and it is here that I'm finding it hard to spot the "improvements" to the timetable.

I take your points re the 17:10 Virgin service, but it's not the train's capacity that's really at issue here (except on a Fri night), but its punctuality. This service is subject to daily delays and on the rare occassions that it does arrive into Leeds on-time, it is usually late into Sheffield due to the state of the track (Moorthorpe in particular), following freight trains / local services, etc, etc.

What is needed are additional express services from Sheffield-Leeds in a morning and from Leeds-Sheffield in the evening rush hour. From what I can see, the proposed new timetable is not going to deliver these.

If you go back 2 or 3 years the only express in the morning peak was the 0800, getting to Leeds at 0858. On the new timetable there is a half hourly fast service - 0721, 0751, 0821, which is a tripling of the fast service, although accepted that is a combination of Virgin introducing their Voyager service plus retimings.

Coming back at night those currently getting the 1610 or 1810 Virgin train now have a relief train at 1616 and 1816, creating more capacity and doubling the number of fast trains for these people. Also with them just shuttling between Sheffield and Leeds they may well be more reliable.

Also for leisure travellers in the daytime they benefit from a doubling of the frequency of express trains - in fact when you add in the slow trains that gives 4 trains per hour.

Unfortunatley you commute back at 5pm and won't benefit from the additional services, but it does not mean nobody sees improvements. Your main issue seems to be performance, which Virgin has improved dramatically, however being a long distance service is open to more potential delays I suppose. If you are saying delays are occurring between Leeds and Sheffield due to congestion, surely the last thing you want is MORE trains clogging the route up?

Does anyone know when this new timetable with the new hourly *51min past train to Leeds starts?

The winter timetable starts on Sunday 12th December, so the answer to your question is Monday 13th December.

Also on the 12th December SercoNed Northern will take over all services currently operated by Arriva Trains Northern and First Northwestern.

Originally posted by Andy C


Also on the 12th December SercoNed Northern will take over all services currently operated by Arriva Trains Northern and First Northwestern.

Ooooh! Does that mean thaat the horrid 40 MPH tin-can trains will be replaced?

Don't be silly - the government allowing investment in the North of England?

All that will happen is the same trains will be painted a different colour.

New timetables are available to download courtesy of West Yorkshire Transport Executive (aka METRO)

Sheffield-Leeds via Barnsley
http://www.wymetro.com/TrainTravel/MetroTrainTimetablesAndRoutes/HallamLine.htm

Sheffield-Leeds via Dearne
http://www.wymetro.com/TrainTravel/MetroTrainTimetablesAndRoutes/WakefieldLine.htm

Sheffield-Leeds summary
http://www.wymetro.com/NR/rdonlyres/7C804551-8AB7-46BC-B290-FC3F1CA454F5/0/LeedsSheffieldDec2004.pdf

Sheffield-Huddersfield via Barnsley
http://www.wymetro.com/TrainTravel/MetroTrainTimetablesAndRoutes/PenistoneLine.htm

Great, I live in Chapeltown and get the train to work. So this means that there will only be one train an hour for me to catch! And I bet the trains will be rammed!!!!

There will be 2 trains an hour calling at Chapeltown - one on the Leeds route and one on the Huddersfield route.

In the morning trains will leave Chapeltown for Sheffield at:
0533, 0607, 0641, 0712, 0742, 0812, 0828, 0912, 0940, 1013, 1040, 1113, 1140.

The new train timetable starts next week.

Here is a list of departures of fast trains between Sheffield and Leeds on weekdays (fast being defined as journey under 64 mins)

From Sheffield: 0550, 0712, 0751, 0821, then xx51 xx21 past each hour until 1751, 1821, 1926, 1951, 2021, 2033, 2121, 2151, 2221, 2321.

From Leeds: 0600, 0614, 0705, 0716, 0726, 0810, 0816, 0828, then xx10 xx16 past each hour until 2110.

Something has always puzzled me about commuting. If travelling between Sheffield and Leeds at rush hour is so difficult and unliked, wouldn't it be easier to relocate (work or home)?

fast being defined as journey under 64 mins

this sort of journey should take 40 mins max

You'll be happy to know that the new company 'Northern' starting its operations on Sunday has already started to receive new rolling stock. That's class 150 for the anorak (double shed with lots of doors in the middle of the coach).

Also, due to a pay crisis Midland Mainline will be running NO services on Sunday for a good while !

Originally posted by MongMental
Something has always puzzled me about commuting. If travelling between Sheffield and Leeds at rush hour is so difficult and unliked, wouldn't it be easier to relocate (work or home)?

Not everyone can manage to work in the same city as their partner, if you can then you are VERY lucky.

Originally posted by eddies32
Not everyone can manage to work in the same city as there partner, if you can then you are VERY lucky.

Some of us can't even live in the same country as our partners :(

Trains are very confusing, buy a Virgin ticket to Leeds you can only travel on Virgin train buy a Metro ticket in Leeds you can't go all the way to Sheffield even though the little MetroTrain is going there. Anyone know why?

Originally posted by eddies32
Not everyone can manage to work in the same city as their partner, if you can then you are VERY lucky.

And if you have children in a good school like I do, and they're doing well (and my son has special needs, so it's taken a long while to get him settled and get all the help he needs)) then you don't really want to move if you can help it.

I started a job just outside Leeds recently, and I'm having to drive there. The equivalent train journey would be at least an hour and 20 minutes + 20 minutes tram + 20 minutes walking, and cost about £180 a month.

I can drive there in just over an hour, plus I'm car sharing with a colleague and cutting my petrol / wear and tear costs in half.

If the train service was quicker and cheaper I'd use that instead, but its not.

Metro tickets are supported and funded via West Yorkshire Pte( ie WY Council Tax Payers) so it only covers the West Yorkshire Rail Network. Within South Yorkshire Pte area we have the Travelmaster tickets. The South Yorkshire Rail Network is one of the smallest of the Pte supported railways within the NEW Northern Rail Franchise.

WHY would any one wont to go to leeds have i spelt it right.

Work? Shopping?