I have a female friend who would like to have a baby. She is 40ish, lesbian, good job, own house and a relationship.

She asked if I would father a baby with her, no strings attached and as much or little contact as I want.

I’ve never wanted a child all of my own, I like my home life as it is, but tbh I’d be more than happy for someone else to have one of mine, perhaps I’d be the child’s favourite “uncle” until they were older. My partner says she’s ok with it.

So the question is does anyone have any experience of this type of thing and the pitfalls, legal and otherwise, of me deciding to go for it?

I have no idea about the legality of this situation... but i'd consider that a great honour and compliment that you have been asked to do such a thing :)

:thumbsup: good luck with the decision

Turkey-baster? or ???

It seems OK as you imply stability with work and house.

One drawback, which seems not to apply here, is if there is a risk of unemployment and benefit claims and then you being named as the father.

You might want to have a look here (http://www.ngdt.co.uk/rights-and-responsibilities/), from where this is taken:
If you plan to donate outside a licensed clinic, for example if you are considering donating fresh sperm, you may wish to consult a solicitor first. Where fresh donated sperm is used outside an HFEA licensed clinic, the donor is considered by law to be the child’s legal father, with all the responsibilities and rights that involves.

[mod note]Please leave the school yard smutty inuendo in the school yard - thankyou

At the risk of being engulfed by the swarm of abuse has your friend not made a conscious life decision to not have children by being/becoming a lesbian, however you think it happens ( and I have seen no evidence to suggest that it is due to nurture, unlike homosexuality which seems to have some nurture links )?

I have a female friend who would like to have a baby. She is 40ish, lesbian, good job, own house and a relationship.

She asked if I would father a baby with her, no strings attached and as much or little contact as I want.

I’ve never wanted a child all of my own, I like my home life as it is, but tbh I’d be more than happy for someone else to have one of mine, perhaps I’d be the child’s favourite “uncle” until they were older. My partner says she’s ok with it.

So the question is does anyone have any experience of this type of thing and the pitfalls, legal and otherwise, of me deciding to go for it?

Dont do it in my opinion. She wants her muffin & eat it. How old is 40ish? She's getting pretty old now anyway for kids. How would you feel if she had complications? A child needs a father as well as a mother for the best upbringing as nature intended.

At the risk of being engulfed by the swarm of abuse has your friend not made a conscious life decision to not have children by being/becoming a lesbian, however you think it happens ( and I have seen no evidence to suggest that it is due to nurture, unlike homosexuality which seems to have some nurture links )?
Is this really the thread to discuss the whys and wherefores of homosexual couples having children? Norbert asked for advice, not a debate on the subject.

What a compliment that she should ask you!

Its entirely up to you! But consider all possible outcomes before making a decision, such as the possibility of a disabled child (not the end of the world but vertainly requiring a lot of support) or her making a financial claim on you as the father if times get hard (we'll all do anything for our kids after all) - if she were made homeless would you offer them a home for instance? Or what about future funding through university - would you see your child go without, or would you stump up the money?

If you are happy with all of the possible implications then you will probably have given it more thought than most who become parents.

Good luck!

I'd say no based on age and lifestyle choice

She asked if I would father a baby with her, no strings attached and as much or little contact as I want.


There WILL be strings attached, and it's neither your decision nor hers about how much contact you will have with the baby. You will be its legal father, and you will have financial responsibility whether she wants you to or not.

dont do it I'd say.

Surely thats not the best way to bring a child into the world?

If she really wants a kids she should look into sperm donation etc otherwise legally you will be bound with parental rights. - what if something happened to her? who would have the kid?

It's now a legal right of children conceived with donated sperm to demand to know the identity of their father.

This is why sperm donations have sunk to an all time low.

So, I would say no. You would LEGALLY be the father, what ever unwritten contract you and your friend may have.

Look here for instance (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/09_september/14/sperm.shtml)

I think its a great idea,i believe everyone deserves the chance to be a parent.
An there is nothing worse then not being able to be one.
The more you know you cant have one for one reason or another the more you want a baby.
Although i do agree with others you will be rights be legally responsible for the child.
Good luck mate all the best
charlie

I'd say no based on age and lifestyle choice
I'd agree.

Is there a way round having the responsibility for the child for the rest of your life? If the mother (and her partner if she has one) adopts the child, is the sperm donor's responsibility at an end?

I seem to recollect when doing some research a while ago, that before the law relating to illegitimacy was changed, the mother of a ******* (illegitimate) child was advised to adopt the child to give it the same rights as any earlier or later children that may have been born in wedlock.

I wonder if that still applies or can be applied to cases of sperm donation? After all, if someone adopts a child, don't the natural parents forego any rights to the child, including responsibility for maintaining it in the event of any mishaps?

I have a female friend who would like to have a baby. She is 40ish, lesbian, good job, own house and a relationship.

She asked if I would father a baby with her, no strings attached and as much or little contact as I want.

I’ve never wanted a child all of my own, I like my home life as it is, but tbh I’d be more than happy for someone else to have one of mine, perhaps I’d be the child’s favourite “uncle” until they were older. My partner says she’s ok with it.

So the question is does anyone have any experience of this type of thing and the pitfalls, legal and otherwise, of me deciding to go for it?

As I understand it, if you are named as the father, you are the father, with all that entails (maintenance etc). If your friend ever claims benefit or unexpectedly dies, you may get more than you bargained for.

The fact that you say you don't want a child, or to look after one tells me it's probably a bad idea.

You may also have a change of heart and actually want the child in the end, or your current partner may want one when she knows you've already got one. I'm sure you are in a better position to assess this possibility.

All in all it seems fraught with danger, not just for you either... what would your reaction be if your uncle suddenly told you he was your dad? I think I'd be pretty shocked and puzzled. I don't think that's a viable (or right) scenario.

And... on a more light hearted note, if either you or your friends fertility is a bit diminished (for want of a better word), you might have to have quite a few goes... you may not succeed at all, dunno if that's a good or a bad thing.... back to you on that one.

Is there a way round having the responsibility for the child for the rest of your life? If the mother (and her partner if she has one) adopts the child, is the sperm donor's responsibility at an end?

I seem to recollect when doing some research a while ago, that before the law relating to illegitimacy was changed, the mother of a ******* (illegitimate) child was advised to adopt the child to give it the same rights as any earlier or later children that may have been born in wedlock.

I wonder if that still applies or can be applied to cases of sperm donation? After all, if someone adopts a child, don't the natural parents forego any rights to the child, including responsibility for maintaining it in the event of any mishaps?

I think you are correct here, the partner could adopt, though I wonder what would happen if she were deemed in anyway unsuitable as a prospective parent?

I think its a great idea,i believe everyone deserves the chance to be a parent.
An there is nothing worse then not being able to be one.
The more you know you cant have one for one reason or another the more you want a baby.
Although i do agree with others you will be rights be legally responsible for the child.
Good luck mate all the best
charlie

All I can say is that I disagree with all of that.
Apart from the bit about being legally responsible.

I too wish Norbert luck if he goes for it but he's opening up a minefield for both him and the child.

Here's a thought.

What if the child is disabled in some way?

All I can say is that I disagree with all of that.
Apart from the bit about being legally responsible.

I too wish Norbert luck if he goes for it but he's opening up a minefield for both him and the child.


well we will agree to disagree on that.
Im only talking from experiance not my own a relative.
But end of the day we are all entitled to an opinion.
Thanks hun charlie

I think you need to sit down and ask your friend some moral dilemma questions... at the moment neither of you has children and you won't really know how you feel about children until they are there.

Will she tell the child you are its father? Will this all be open or will you wait for the child to ask? Will you feel morally obligated to join in? Will you want to have input and how much? How will her partner feel if you take on a father role? What if they split up - who would get custody (your friend may not want it) ?

I am not saying the right or wrong answers to these questions (I dunno!) what i am saying is that you and your mate need to be singing from the same song sheet about them.

The fact that she is 40+ and a lesbian is irrelevant in my eyes. I would say this to anyone considering any type of surrogacy/donation.

I have no children of my own but a) I don't know anything about my own father b)My mother spent her twenties pretending I was a little doll c) My stepfather has two sons a year either side of me that he disowned when they were aged 10 and 8 just as he couldn't be bothered with the hassle. While none of these situations are like yours, I think you should consider your own thoughts and true scruples.

Personally I think that most people should be put through vigorous testing before having children to go through convictions and beliefs etc... that's why I always think adopted children are some of the most wanted children (unless you are Baby David and Madonna's ya mum! :hihi: ).

I have a female friend who would like to have a baby. She is 40ish, lesbian, good job, own house and a relationship.

She asked if I would father a baby with her, no strings attached and as much or little contact as I want.

I’ve never wanted a child all of my own, I like my home life as it is, but tbh I’d be more than happy for someone else to have one of mine, perhaps I’d be the child’s favourite “uncle” until they were older. My partner says she’s ok with it.

So the question is does anyone have any experience of this type of thing and the pitfalls, legal and otherwise, of me deciding to go for it?
Unless you donate sperm anonymously through an official sperm bank I don’t think the law differentiates between sperm delivered via a turkey baster our in the more traditional manner.

The mother can’t wave the child’s right to your support from you because those are the child’s rights not hers, if she ever has to claim benefits or whatever the state will come after you for support.

It’s also worth considering that whilst it’s easy to say things like ‘no strings attached and as much or little contact as I want’ now but when the kid comes along you don’t know how it will affect you or the mother, you may well find yourself wanting more to do with the kid than she’s happy with.

Basically whilst I wouldn’t rule it out, as having a child will make you 50% immortal and fullfill your purpose for living, do consider that you will be the legal and quite possible emotional father of the child which is a responsibility for life that you should think about very carefully before handing your friend any vials of bodily fluids.

At the risk of being engulfed by the swarm of abuse has your friend not made a conscious life decision to not have children by being/becoming a lesbian, however you think it happens ( and I have seen no evidence to suggest that it is due to nurture, unlike homosexuality which seems to have some nurture links )?
Because of course people make a ‘conscious decision’ to choose their sexuality, it’s not in anyway innate :rolleyes:

The only people who make a conscious decision not to have children are those who say to themselves (and hopefully their partner if they’re honest) ‘I don’t want to have children’ Lesbians have by no means automatically made such a decision. On the contrary the fact that many of them, like for example Norbert’s friend, actively seek and do have children by one means or another would suggest that you are talking complete rubbish, and bigoted rubbish at that.

I'd say no based on age and lifestyle choice
1. What's wrong with her lifestyle choice?
2. Many women who are '40ish' have children, indeed several years ago my Aunt did just that (naturally with her husband before you get all moralistic on her) I'm very glad she did so as she is now the proud mother of 3 wonderful, and robustly healthy, bright children. There is a higher risk of complications as mothers age but they are by no means inevitable.

Because of course people make a ‘conscious decision’ to choose their sexuality, it’s not in anyway innate :rolleyes:

The only people who make a conscious decision not to have children are those who say to themselves (and hopefully their partner if they’re honest) ‘I don’t want to have children’ Lesbians have by no means automatically made such a decision. On the contrary the fact that many of them, like for example Norbert’s friend, actively seek and do have children by one means or another would suggest that you are talking complete rubbish, and bigoted rubbish at that.

Just because I have my opinion does not make me bigoted.

Bigoted -- defined as utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

I just disagree with same sex parenting. Be careful about calling people bigoted with no basis to what you are saying. I respect your right to believe what you believe - I personally believe a child should be raised by a mum and a dad. Why don't you try respecting mine and agreeing to differ - Instead of calling me bigoted.

Is everybody who disagrees with your opinions bigoted then ?? I think not.

I am assuming she wants a kid with your genes just because she knows you - so here's a thought!

What if you donated your sperm at a clinic and then she picked you?

As for how she picks you, that can always be rigged. I believe donors are required to describe themselves, and you could always use pre-arranged phrases to describe yourself (intellectual, played rugby at school-level kind of statements)

From the leagl point of view, you have no claim or responsibilty over the child. Plus, she gets what she wants - a kid with your genes.

hmm, tricky. i'd say go for it - she's a friend, if you've known her for a few years the chances are you know her fairly well, so the chances are that if any problems did arise, you'd be able to work through it. it is the choice of the parents how much contact the child would have with you - if the child knows no different, why would it expect a resident father? incidentally, does your friend have a partner? if so, 2 mothers is great. the only reason i'd worry about donating my sperm (if i was a bloke) like this would be that she's over 40, her chances of having a healthy baby and a complication-free pregnancy and labour are significantly lower than if she was 30.

no matter how well you know her, though, definitely visit the solicitor and draw up financial and (very flexible) visiting rights. what happens if she dies, for instance? no harm in both of you being covered for all eventualities.

tbh, i've been thinking about how fantastic it would be to donate some eggs (once i've finished having babies for myself) so taht some other lucky people can raise my spawn for me (the husband wasn't too pleased about this when i last mentioned it). the long term responsibilities are the only drawback i can see. like you, i quite fancy being 'aunty babychickens' or somesuch until the sprog is old enough to understand.

Just because I have my opinion does not make me bigoted.

Bigoted -- defined as utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own.

I just disagree with same sex parenting. Be careful about calling people bigoted with no basis to what you are saying.
I do have a basis, namely your bigoted attitude to homosexuals.

I respect your right to believe what you believe - I personally believe a child should be raised by a mum and a dad. Why don't you try respecting mine and agreeing to differ - Instead of calling me bigoted.
I fully respect your right to disagree with me and express that opinion, just as I support my right to describe that opinion as bigoted if its intolerant and narrow minded in for example the manner of post 6 (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1822154&postcount=6) you made in this thread.

Is everybody who disagrees with your opinions bigoted then ?? I think not.
No only the ones who's disagreeable opinions happen to be bigoted.

Anyway enough of you trying to sidestep the points I made in my post by taking refuge in offence, how about you actually address the substance of my post; namely on what grounds to you claim that people make a conscious decision to be homosexual and on what grounds do you think homosexual people shouldn't become parents?

tbh, i've been thinking about how fantastic it would be to donate some eggs (once i've finished having babies for myself) so taht some other lucky people can raise my spawn for me (the husband wasn't too pleased about this when i last mentioned it). the long term responsibilities are the only drawback i can see. like you, i quite fancy being 'aunty babychickens' or somesuch until the sprog is old enough to understand.
Donating eggs is a pretty complex business, so much so that I don't think youy can do it without medical help which would tend to involve official channels. As such you'd most likely have the full legal protections official donation gives you and so far as I'm aware no legal long term responsibilities to any children that result from eggs you donate, I expect if you actually approached a clinic about donating they'd have to explain the full legal situation to you.

If I disagree with something it doesn't mean I don't tolerate it does it. I disagree with religion (all of 'em), but I tolerate it. I disagree with war but I tolerate it.

On what grounds to you claim that people make a unconscious decision to be homosexual ? Scientists can't agree on the nature vs nurture argument.

I think it's best for a child to be brought up by a mum and dad so they have a role model from each gender - So what. Each gender brings different things to parenting and I think this benefits the child.

Donating eggs is a pretty complex business, so much so that I don't think youy can do it without medical help which would tend to involve official channels. As such you'd most likely have the full legal protections official donation gives you and so far as I'm aware no legal long term responsibilities to any children that result from eggs you donate, I expect if you actually approached a clinic about donating they'd have to explain the full legal situation to you.

yes, it certainly is complex, and can be very unpleasant being hyperovulated (a lady died of it about 18months ago...obviously a risk i would bear in mind!). in this country i believe it's illegal to advertise for either someone willing to be a surrogate mother or to offer your services as a surrogate, but i don't know about teh legality of advertising/offering services as an egg donor, as i haven't got around to looking into it properly yet. tbh, harsh as this sounds, but for the sake of my potential offspring, i would rather sell my eggs (not to the highest bidder) so that i would have the chance to fully vet anyone who i would sell them to (i don't want or need the money myself, i'd invest the money from the eggs such that the resulting babies had something for their futures), and would check that they were financially able to support a baby comfortably. this is why i've said that norbert should go for it - his friend sounds like the ideal sort of lady to raise a child for you (not you, obviously, "you" in general terms).

On what grounds to you claim that people make a unconscious decision to be homosexual ? Scientists can't agree on the nature vs nurture argument.



personally i think taht mixed sex and same sex couples/singles of straight/gay persuasion have equal contributions to make to children, so have no problems with same sex couples having babies.

my reason for quoting you, however, is that nature vs nurture (as the causal factor in sexual preference) is a separate issue entirely from whether the decision to be homosexual is unconscious or conscious. yes, you're right, there is no agreement on nature vs nurture (and as the case with these things often turns out in the long run once there is good evidence, it'll probably turn out that both are important)(actaully, there was some really hokey "medical" study in teh late 70s or early 80s that "showed" that there was a "gay gene" or something, but it was absolute b******s from start to finish....digressing). whether a person was homosexual either by conscious or unconscious decision - both could have been the result of nature and/or nurture.

What a compliment that she should ask you!

Its entirely up to you! But consider all possible outcomes before making a decision, such as the possibility of a disabled child (not the end of the world but vertainly requiring a lot of support) or her making a financial claim on you as the father if times get hard (we'll all do anything for our kids after all) - if she were made homeless would you offer them a home for instance? Or what about future funding through university - would you see your child go without, or would you stump up the money?

If you are happy with all of the possible implications then you will probably have given it more thought than most who become parents.

Good luck!

What a compliment that she has asked you.
If I where you I would be extremely flattered or the offer, and I myself would most likely accept.
I think my views are expressed perfectly by the above post.
Good luck to you and your friend, what ever you decide to do.

Mod Note: This thread was intended to answer a question, not get smart and start personal insults.

Please respect that.

Just to remind people about the warning posted above.

Two users who ignored it are now taking short holidays - please let's not make it three.

Thanks.

On what grounds to you claim that people make a unconscious decision to be homosexual ? Scientists can't agree on the nature vs nurture argument.
I’ve never claimed that sexuality is a choice of any kind, you the one who said that sexuality is a choice as such the burden of proof is on you to prove it is. Which should be pretty difficult as I’d be fascinated to know why people would ‘choose’ to be homosexual in societies where that ‘choice’ leads to them being persecuted, imprisoned and even killed.

I think it's best for a child to be brought up by a mum and dad so they have a role model from each gender - So what. Each gender brings different things to parenting and I think this benefits the child.
Now that’s a reductionist view if ever I saw one, people’s contribution to their families isn’t determined by their gender and even if a mixed sex couple is best for a child that doesn’t mean that any other arrangement is harmful and should be opposed.

A nice affluent, well educated, healthy couple with an interest in child rearing might also be ‘best for a child’ does that mean that anyone who falls short of this or any other arbitrary criteria shouldn’t have children?

yes, it certainly is complex, and can be very unpleasant being hyperovulated (a lady died of it about 18months ago...obviously a risk i would bear in mind!). in this country i believe it's illegal to advertise for either someone willing to be a surrogate mother or to offer your services as a surrogate, but i don't know about teh legality of advertising/offering services as an egg donor, as i haven't got around to looking into it properly yet. tbh, harsh as this sounds, but for the sake of my potential offspring, i would rather sell my eggs (not to the highest bidder) so that i would have the chance to fully vet anyone who i would sell them to (i don't want or need the money myself, i'd invest the money from the eggs such that the resulting babies had something for their futures), and would check that they were financially able to support a baby comfortably. this is why i've said that norbert should go for it - his friend sounds like the ideal sort of lady to raise a child for you (not you, obviously, "you" in general terms).
Things pretty heavily regulated in the UK and I think you are limited to receiving expenses and 'gifts' (not sure what restrictions on those there are) when donating eggs, being a surrogate mother etc. I vaguely recall hearing stories of people being flown over to the US to be paid to donate though, the nurturing drive can be so strong that some people are willing to just throw money at the problem if they're unable to conceive naturally.

i'd say do it, if your morally ok with the idea. on the note of sperm donation - does anybody have information how i can go about doing this in the uk, i think the closest place is manchester?

I believe anonymous sperm donation is now a thing of the past.

Norbert - if you do not want a child of your own, I would suggest respectfully that you don't have one - whether you intend to be a father figure in the child's life or not.

You may find, that having donated your sperm and when your friend has delivered a healthy full term baby boy, that your feelings change markedly towards the infant. I would hazard that this is a near certainty.

Hi Norbert

I too think it is great compliment to be asked.

My reservation is about the 'no strings' part. There is nothing wrong with being brought up by gay parents. However, I feel that deciding, before the child is even conceived, that one biological parent should not be involved in the child's life is not really right for the child.

Cutting a father out of a child's life in this purposeful way, whatever the sexuality of the mother, is not good, I think.

Being a parent in whatever capacity has responsibilities attached - and rightly so.

In any case, tis just my opinion and I wish you luck, whatever you choose to do.

CM x

....... on the note of sperm donation - does anybody have information how i can go about doing this in the uk, i think the closest place is manchester?

Lots of information on this website:

http://www.ngdt.co.uk/faq/

Sheffield (Jessops) is on their list of clinics.

Because of course people make a ‘conscious decision’ to choose their sexuality, it’s not in anyway innate :rolleyes:

The only people who make a conscious decision not to have children are those who say to themselves (and hopefully their partner if they’re honest) ‘I don’t want to have children’ Lesbians have by no means automatically made such a decision. On the contrary the fact that many of them, like for example Norbert’s friend, actively seek and do have children by one means or another would suggest that you are talking complete rubbish, and bigoted rubbish at that.

well if a lesbian wants kids, fairy nuff, but don't mess with the turkey baster nonsense

there's a much more natural way to conceive, we've been doing it for millions of years

I’ve never claimed that sexuality is a choice of any kind, you the one who said that sexuality is a choice as such the burden of proof is on you to prove it is. Which should be pretty difficult as I’d be fascinated to know why people would ‘choose’ to be homosexual in societies where that ‘choice’ leads to them being persecuted, imprisoned and even killed.


Now that’s a reductionist view if ever I saw one, people’s contribution to their families isn’t determined by their gender and even if a mixed sex couple is best for a child that doesn’t mean that any other arrangement is harmful and should be opposed.

A nice affluent, well educated, healthy couple with an interest in child rearing might also be ‘best for a child’ does that mean that anyone who falls short of this or any other arbitrary criteria shouldn’t have children?

And you suggested sexuality is innate - Can you back this up.

Again everything you have stated is open to personal opinion but of course it is your opinion which is correct.

You state that people's contribution to their families is not determined by their gender - Is this is no way at all? Could you please back this up with some fact.

Should there be abitrary criteria placed on people having children where possible? Does age not matter ( increased chance of problems for child and mother, increased chance of parents being dead by childs teens, increased chance of miscarriage ) ? Or whether you are a drug addict ( increased chance of problems for child and mother ) ? These factors cannot be controlled when conception is natural but can in artificial cases, and I would suggest doctor's make decisions based on these kinds of factors daily.

having to gain a parental qualification before being allowed to be a parent might on the face of it be a good idea

a bit nazi-like unfortunately, but it'd stop swarms of chavs over running our country

compulsory contraceptive injections from puberty until you can prove yourself responsible and caring enuff to deserve to take on the important role of parent

having to gain a parental qualification before being allowed to be a parent might on the face of it be a good idea

a bit nazi-like unfortunately, but it'd stop swarms of chavs over running our country

compulsory contraceptive injections from puberty until you can prove yourself responsible and caring enuff to deserve to take on the important role of parent

No such thing as a perfect parent - the human race would die out.

And Shameless wouldn't be half as funny.

No such thing as a perfect parent - the human race would die out.

And Shameless wouldn't be half as funny.

i didn't suggest that parental qualifications would make perfect parents

i've never met a perfect person, our imperfections make us unique

however, there are some people who blatently haven't got much if anything to contribute to society, and their spawn just drain the world's resources

i didn't suggest that parental qualifications would make perfect parents

i've never met a perfect person, our imperfections make us unique

however, there are some people who blatently haven't got much if anything to contribute to society, and their spawn just drain the world's resources

I know, I know. Wasn't criticising - was meant to be a small joke. Obviously not a very good one...

Mind you, don't blame kids for their parents imperfections - they are unique.

It's a bit off topic, I know but can I check I have this straight, please? I'd look it up myself but I can't work with search engines - they stress me out :)

A sperm donor can be unmasked to his "children" which could potentially run into the hundreds presumably, given how much sperm there is in a single emission and he could be financially as well as morally responsble for them?

But an egg donor can remain anonymous and not have any responsibility to her "children" in the future?

If that's correct, it doesn't seem very fair or equitable to either the donors or the children, given that many people need/are curious to know their biological backgrounds. Or are just plain nosey and want to know about their natural parents :)

Phan has an extremely valid point, one that's worthy of deep consideration before a decision is made.

Mind you, don't blame kids for their parents imperfections - they are unique.

is this another joke?

who was blaming kids for their parent's imperfections?

wot i'd like to see is people who are actually bothered about them and capable of giving them a decent upbringing having kids - by a decent upbringing i don't mean rich big house loadsa toys etc as the material is largely immaterial - more of an attitude/aptitude test would be appropriate - a loving upbringing makes all the difference

Don't think I could do it, not even for me best mate. :|
Too many complications.

Many many thanks for all your contributions, I'll be following up on them in the morning. I think it will take months of thought and research to make what may be the biggest decision I’ve ever faced. Goodnight all.

A sperm donor can be unmasked to his "children" which could potentially run into the hundreds presumably, given how much sperm there is in a single emission and he could be financially as well as morally responsble for them?

But an egg donor can remain anonymous and not have any responsibility to her "children" in the future?

Sperm donating and egg donating done legally through proper channels, does not entail any possibility of future financial responsibility for the children; however, those children do now have the legal right to know who their biological parents were, whether the donor requested anonymity or not. Consequently yes, it's possible that some guy who donated sperm five years ago will one day have 200 children turn up on his doorstep.

Hence the drastic falloff in willing donors :rolleyes:


Any form of baby making other than the above, entails a legal and financial responsibility on both biological parents, regardless of who ends up with the child, and regardless of what the involved parties decided between themselves. This is why the OP is advised to steer well clear of any such agreement.

Whilst its flattering to be asked I really do think that it has the potential to be an emotional disaster. There are so many unknowns and its something that needs to be thought through very seriously. The fact that your partner doesnt seem to concerned is worrying, could your relationship survive the possible strains.

If your friend wants a baby sperm donation would be the best option to safeguard your friendship.

The laws to children conceived through sperm donation and by egg donation have changed in the last few years. There were some programmes with Robert Winston on BBC 1 a few months back showing IVF/Sperm donation/Egg donation/ male infertility. Once a child reaches 18 I believe they can now be given details of ther father, with egg donation its the same. The egg donor isnt told who is given her eggs (and the recipitent isnt told who the donor is) or if a successful pregnancy came from the donation. Should a child be born from a donor egg and want to know who donated the egg they can be given the information when they are 18.

Its a minefield of emotion and could result in a life changing scenario (good or bad) is it really worth it.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that youre not the only option your friend has, thats why there are sperm donors. I just see it as an ask too far.

And you suggested sexuality is innate - Can you back this up.
Actually I can, but I don’t have to because you are the one who made the initial claim that people consciously choose their sexuality the burden of proof in on you to substantiate that claim or concede the point.

Also I would point out your position is based upon your baseless claim that Norbert’s friend ‘made a conscious life decision to not have children by being/becoming a lesbian’. My position on this matter is not in anyway based upon whether or not sexuality is chosen or not.

Again everything you have stated is open to personal opinion but of course it is your opinion which is correct.
Wrong, I stated:
Many women who are '40ish' have children – this is a fact not an opinion.
I stated that there have been and are homosexuals in societies where this ‘choice’ leads to them being persecuted, imprisoned and even killed – this is a fact not an opinion. I could go on but it’d be rather dull.

You state that people's contribution to their families is not determined by their gender - Is this is no way at all? Could you please back this up with some fact.
Yes I can. (http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgpchildren.html)

Should there be abitrary criteria placed on people having children where possible? Does age not matter ( increased chance of problems for child and mother, increased chance of parents being dead by childs teens, increased chance of miscarriage ) ? Or whether you are a drug addict ( increased chance of problems for child and mother ) ? These factors cannot be controlled when conception is natural but can in artificial cases, and I would suggest doctor's make decisions based on these kinds of factors daily.
First of all who says doctors are going to be involved in this? All that’s needed is a turkey baster.

Even if doctors were going to be involved what evidence do you have that Lesbians are unfit parents who should be denied treatment by doctors? I have posted a substantial article by the American Psychological Association which says they are fit parents, in contrast you have posted no evidence of any kind whatsoever to back up your contrary opinion.

Actually I can,

...

I could go on but it’d be rather dull.

too late....

Nice posting Plekhanov, any comment neddio?

Hi Norbert. I haven't read all of these messages......but I do get the drift. My own advice to you is this........if YOU have no desire to Father children.......then please do not donate your sperm. It is quite simple really. Forget friendships etc.......it is YOU, and any future children that YOU might create, that counts here. Even if you never had any further contact with your "creation"........you will never be able to rest, knowing that there is a child out there somewhere, that is of your being.
And......what about the child? That child has rights to both of it's parents. Lesbian relationships are all well and good, and I don't in any way condemn them.......but they cannot produce children. Any form of lesbian/homosexual relationship, must surely accept that there can never be any children born of them. This is a fact of life.....and not something that is meted out as a form of punishment. I accept IVF and any other form of intervention regarding pregnancy. BUT.....this should be reserved for the rights of any unborn children, in as much as they have the right to be born to parents consisting of both a Father and a Mother.
I have got my tin hat on here......I fully expect to be shot down....but this is my opinion, and I would hope that it will be respected.
Children have a right to have both a Father and a Mother. Should WE.....as consenting adults, decide that our sexuality lies elsewhere........then so be it. BUT......we then should leave our maternal/paternal desires behind. We have the choice.......but I firmly believe we can't have it both ways.

And......what about the child? That child has rights to both of it's parents.
They do? Maybe somebody should have explained that to my Grandfather before he died leaving 4 young children with only a single parent. Two parents might be best, a male and a female couple might be best but it is by no means essential and for one reason or another alternative families have been successfully bringing up children since pre-history. What reason do you have for declaring that this age old practice should cease?

Lesbian relationships are all well and good, and I don't in any way condemn them.......but they cannot produce children.
Lesbians however can and do have children, and women in lesbian relationships can and do successfully raise children.

Any form of lesbian/homosexual relationship, must surely accept that there can never be any children born of them.
Why? Because you say so?

This is a fact of life.....and not something that is meted out as a form of punishment.
So how do you explain all the gay parents around the world?

I accept IVF and any other form of intervention regarding pregnancy. BUT.....this should be reserved for the rights of any unborn children, in as much as they have the right to be born to parents consisting of both a Father and a Mother.
Why?

I have got my tin hat on here......I fully expect to be shot down....but this is my opinion, and I would hope that it will be respected.
Children have a right to have both a Father and a Mother. Should WE.....as consenting adults, decide that our sexuality lies elsewhere........then so be it.
Will you please provide some evidence that people choose their sexuality.

BUT......we then should leave our maternal/paternal desires behind. We have the choice.......but I firmly believe we can't have it both ways.
Why not? Because you say so?

too late....
Well I guess I walked into that one, still I could have gone on & on & on and been even duller.

I have a female friend who would like to have a baby. She is 40ish, lesbian, good job, own house and a relationship.

She asked if I would father a baby with her, no strings attached and as much or little contact as I want.

I’ve never wanted a child all of my own, I like my home life as it is, but tbh I’d be more than happy for someone else to have one of mine, perhaps I’d be the child’s favourite “uncle” until they were older. My partner says she’s ok with it.

So the question is does anyone have any experience of this type of thing and the pitfalls, legal and otherwise, of me deciding to go for it?


NO WAY dont do it.... if she wants women then she can have women.. she doesn't deserve to have a child.. children are for male female relationships only!!! this makes me sick... CSA WILL be in touch with you at some point....!!!

Besides all the financial and legal considerations, think about the child.

How would it feel to be that child? His/her mum is a lesbian and her father isnt involved in her family but just sees her from time to time. He didnt have a relationship with her mum, just donated the sperm. I cannot imagine how it would feel to be that child, but I think there is bound to be some psychological effect somewhere along the line.

Spot On!!..............................

Besides all the financial and legal considerations, think about the child.

How would it feel to be that child? His/her mum is a lesbian and her father isnt involved in her family but just sees her from time to time. He didnt have a relationship with her mum, just donated the sperm. I cannot imagine how it would feel to be that child, but I think there is bound to be some psychological effect somewhere along the line.


given that i do have some experience of gay mothers, as my husband's mother is gay, i can honestly say that in his family no-one cares that she's gay - realistically, a child is (hopefully) never going to have a sexual relationship with its mother, so why would the child care about the mother's orientation? unless, obviously, other adults make the child think it's wrong....children are remarkably open minded.

the absent father thing is, i agree, more of an issue, but given how many single mothers there are around (not that that justifies wilfully conceiving a child with no intention of having a relationship with the father), i personally don't think it's a big deal...surely one parent who is a good parent and takes full responsibility is enough? my dad was quite frankly the most indifferent dad in the world, tbh i sometimes think we would have been better off without him as he always seemed to work in direct competition to my mum (nb they are still together, largely because my mum puts up with his nonsense...not because she's 'weak' but because she ignores him). in fact, it was kind of like my mum was looking after 2 children and a stroppy teenager (her husband). hmm, fun.

why would there necessarily be psychological issues? an open minded parent who listens and talks to their child, is always there for the child, can support the child financially...again, why would the child care about the mother's orientation? are you saying that any child that isn't brought up by both of its parents will have issues? because i doubt very much that you'd agree with that....i'm not having a go, and i hope you don't think i am, but i think you're raising your granchildren, so i'm surprised you're not a bit more openminded on this parenting issue.

Besides all the financial and legal considerations, think about the child.

How would it feel to be that child? His/her mum is a lesbian and her father isnt involved in her family but just sees her from time to time. He didnt have a relationship with her mum, just donated the sperm. I cannot imagine how it would feel to be that child, but I think there is bound to be some psychological effect somewhere along the line.
The American Psychological Association (http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgpchildren.html) disagree, but hey why bother doing studies to see what happens in reality when you can just declare that things are 'bound to happen' :rolleyes:

NO WAY dont do it.... if she wants women then she can have women.. she doesn't deserve to have a child.. children are for male female relationships only!!!
Why?

this makes me sick...
So what? What's your reactionary digestive system got to do with anything?

Why?


So what? What's your reactionary digestive system got to do with anything?

becasue its wrong......

kids are brought up better in male / female relationships..

than either single sex OR single parent FACT

as hecate kindly put it on page 1 of this thread
Is this really the thread to discuss the whys and wherefores of homosexual couples having children? Norbert asked for advice, not a debate on the subject.

now can we get back to the advice please

Another factor to bear in mind is that, as Norbert has never had children, there's no guarantee that his 'seed' will have the desired effect. Some couple try for years for a baby; it'd be pretty fortunate for Norbert to do the business first time round.

Alternatively, he may be required for several attempts; which depending on the physical attraction (and there has to be one for any sexual activity to take place) may or may not be a good thing.....

becasue its wrong......

kids are brought up better in male / female relationships..

than either single sex OR single parent FACT


if it's fact, then give us proof.

use google!!! you'll find it..

becasue its wrong......
In what way is it wrong?

kids are brought up better in male / female relationships..

than either single sex OR single parent FACT
Actually it's not a 'FACT' unlike you the American Psychological Association (http://www.apa.org/pi/lgbc/publications/lgpchildren.html) have actually studied this issue and guess what, children raised by homosexual parents do just fine.

Anyway even if 'male / female relationships' are 'better' that doesn't mean that all other forms of family relationship are unacceptable. Do you really not realise that just because something isn't the optimum it doesn't mean that it's automatically unacceptably poor?

if it's fact, then give us proof.

As for single vs 2 parent families I believe it's fairly well documented in terms of achievement, education, involvement in crime etc that 2 parent families perform better.

This does not denigrate single parent families it's just a common sense fact that on the whole (Not in every single case obviously - many exceptions occur on both sides) 2 parent families are better for bringing up children than 1.

People trying to deny this are making fools of themselves and do good single parents a disservice by sounding like zealots.

use google!!! you'll find it..
did you? link please.

Keep your life simple and don't do it. What happens if you fall out ... aren't there enough people on the Trisha Goddard Show?

Not really read the thread closely indetails. I skimmed read it here and there. Leaving the homosexuality debate behind. For me personally, I would do this, if the situation happened to myself. i.e. a gay couple asked me, and I was with a partner, and he's okay with it etc.

I'd seriously question myself whether I can handle the thought of a child of mine out there in the world, and that I may or may not be involved with his/her life.

Thoughts that came to mind were that, would I become possessive or can I handle truly having no contact. i.e. a possibility, if the relationship with the parents became sour.

It's easy to make decisions now, when we can't foresee potential pitfalls, or problems. Unfortunately, a child is also a lifetime responsibility, even though I know that in this kind of situation, I would not own the child. I guess it's why a lot of people actually donate sperms anonymously. It breaks that kind of emotional attachment. For me personally, I don't think I can get my head round such issues. So maybe I won't go ahead with such decisions. It's a case of doing something of the unknown. Quick decisions now, but long-term moral questioning and potential emotional ties, especially if my life gets worst. I'm sure I would feel the morality dilemma when I get older, so wanting to find the child, or keep a relationship going with him/her would be questioned.

As for single vs 2 parent families I believe it's fairly well documented in terms of achievement, education, involvement in crime etc that 2 parent families perform better.

This does not denigrate single parent families it's just a common sense fact that on the whole (Not in every single case obviously - many exceptions occur on both sides) 2 parent families are better for bringing up children than 1.

People trying to deny this are making fools of themselves and do good single parents a disservice by sounding like zealots.

'common sense' and 'fact' are not the same thing at all. you're right though - it is fairly well documented that single parent families tend to do less well in terms of achievement, education, crime etc than 2 parent families. however, we still don't know whether the lady in question has a partner. i also don't (perhaps you do) know all the literature about single parent families, and whether singleparentdom causes the achievement/education/crime problems, or whether singleparentdom is caused by achievement/education/crime problems (all in very broad terms, obviously). my guess is that the lady is question is financially able to support the child, reasonably well educated, and not involved in any sort of crime. are there any studies to show that children from that sort of demographic have problems with intelligence/crime/achievement? And, just to finish it of, surely no-one thinks that just because a trend would indicate something in a general population that an individual would necessarily follow that trend (ie the child would become an ill-educated criminal)? you've shown in your wording that you don't believe that anyway by saying that there are exceptions.

Babychickens - I should have been a little more clear in my wording but what I meant was it is both a documented fact and common sense that on the whole a child is better off having 2 parents than one. Note the use of the words "on the whole" and "better off".

I can see your point about the financial/class situation of the single parent however feel that's a bit of a side issue in this case (Perhaps worthy on it's own thread on another day?) where surely the moral issues are the only things that matter?

And my 2p on that front is that it is wrong to deliberately have a child in this situation. Having a child is a privilege not a right.

Babychickens - I should have been a little more clear in my wording but what I meant was it is both a documented fact and common sense that on the whole a child is better off having 2 parents than one. Note the use of the words "on the whole" and "better off".

I can see your point about the financial/class situation of the single parent however feel that's a bit of a side issue in this case (Perhaps worthy on it's own thread on another day?) where surely the moral issues are the only things that matter?

And my 2p on that front is that it is wrong to deliberately have a child in this situation. Having a child is a privilege not a right.

*smiles argumentatively*
...and i should have been a bit clearer when i said it's not 'fact' - yes, it is common sense, and it is well documented, but that doesn't make it a 'fact', as 'fact' suggests an irrefutable truth, which this is not. a semantic argument, perhaps, but important to make the distinction between fact and documentation, i feel.

i also don't think the financial/education thing is a side issue, as i think her ability to support the child fully is integral to the argument - if she was 40+ and looking for a baby that she couldn't support, i would categorically think it inappropriate for her to have one. i also don't understand the relevance of the "having a child is a privilege and not a right" argument - it isn't a right, and perhaps it is a privilege, but why should she not have that privilege? she could well be a fantastic mother.

I'd be most concerned about the legal side of things and how my personal feelings towards the child and possibly even the mother might become complicated, if I were in Norbert's situation.

The womans sexuality is irrelevant, age is relevant (older women are more likely to have disabled children) but 40 isn't too massively old.

HI Norbert I think as many others said you should not have a baby woith your Female freind, based on childbearing age issues, if the child has problems and her realtionship breaks more will be demanded of you and your other half. I can understand you wantingto help BUT a child is for life not just the short time and regardless of what and how you feel now he/she will be your responsility morally. As mother I feel sad for her but she has chosen that life style and she can always adopt, there are so many children needing stable homes. Think again my friend and Good luck

HI Norbert I think as many others said you should not have a baby woith your Female freind, based on childbearing age issues, .... <snip>

I was born in 1961 when my Mother was 40 and my father in his late 30s.

I have the full set of limbs, eyes, ears, requisite number of fingers, toes and chromosomes and a functioning brain.

Whilst there are some increased risks to a child with older parents, I'd rather see a child born to people who want a child and who are investigating these sort of issues than one born to a teenager who was too dumb to use contraception and regards propping the kid in front of the TV as childcare until they're old enough to be hanging around on street corners.

Sorry...grump over.

I think you should be flattered by her raising the possibility of this with you.

The complications are many and you won't know half of them until they hit you, no matter how much you try to think of them beforehand. The legal aspects are just that, legal aspects, based and governed by rules and regulations. To a certain extent you can consider these rationally. The things that test you are the emotional aspects which change as you go along and depend on circumstances that may not yet have arisen.

A very close friend fathered two children in the way you have been asked to. There have been misgivings at times, and the emotional side of things is like the rest of life, a bit of a roller coaster. Our friend chose in agreement with the mothers to have an active role in the parenting, though by no means a major role he does have some input and regularly looks after them.

He is proud of them, they are proud of him and are well behaved and incredibly polite. They are well balanced (IMO) and have no hangups about people whatever their background, race, sexuality, etc. They are quite normal young lads.

I do think you should consider the amount of involvement you want and could cope with as I believe this is the key to making the situation work successfully. Playing 'favourite uncle' is OK but I personally think it would feel different if you had actually fathered the child.

Good luck with your dilemma.

For myself, if the ''donation'' was done by route one I think that I would find more emotional attachment. If it was done clinically I believe that I would have less attachment.

[mod note]Please leave the school yard smutty inuendo in the school yard - thankyou
DRAT DRAT DRAT DRAT----

no strings attached

Good luck getting that past the CSA...

why would there necessarily be psychological issues? an open minded parent who listens and talks to their child, is always there for the child, can support the child financially...again, why would the child care about the mother's orientation? are you saying that any child that isn't brought up by both of its parents will have issues? because i doubt very much that you'd agree with that....i'm not having a go, and i hope you don't think i am, but i think you're raising your granchildren, so i'm surprised you're not a bit more openminded on this parenting issue.

I am open minded myself about parenting issues. I dont have a problem with gays, just re read what I said. We cant imagine we know how that child will feel.

Given that I am raising my grandchildren, I know that no matter how much love and how open you are with them, from an early age the eldest knows he does not have the same family set up as the other children in his nursery. We discuss this at length. Children, when growing up and going through school, often dont like to be seen as "different". Not every child is like this, but no matter how well you prepare them, they are bound to feel it.

Before anyone embarks on something like this, they need to go back to being an 8 year old, or a 6 year old (or what ever age) and just think what was important to them then. When I was at school, for instance, I used to feel left out as my mum made my own clothes and they werent as fashionable as everyone elses.

I have a background in psychology, but rarely bother consulting psychological theory or research when thinking about child rearing issues. Ive conducted research studies myself and read enough to realise that if you want to prove a particular theory, keep trying and you will. With small children I prefer to try a qualitative approach and try to put myself in a particular childs shoes. Its not easy for me, its not easy for most people as you have to try and put aside your own feelings and see it from their eyes.

This is what I suggest the donor and the prospective parent do. Its not for me to say its a good or bad thing. Just consider the child.

becasue its wrong......

kids are brought up better in male / female relationships..

than either single sex OR single parent FACT

I have to say, 6 months ago I would have agreed with you on this, but I have recently met a wonderful young lass though work. She is a single Mum with a 2 1/2 year old, she is one of the best mums I have ever seen, I cannot fault her parenting skills and dedication to her son.
I don’t want to give too much away, but she was young when she had the child concerned, and having met the child, I have to say he is a lovely little boy, doing really well at nursery and well in general.
I don’t believe that its the issue of male / female relationships, as im sure we could go round and find dysfunctional 'proper' families. but i will admit that a higher proportion of single parent families have 'issues', but as always there are exceptions.
As long as the parent(s) love and care for the child I don’t see a problem with it.

I am open minded myself about parenting issues. I dont have a problem with gays, just re read what I said. We cant imagine we know how that child will feel.

Given that I am raising my grandchildren, I know that no matter how much love and how open you are with them, from an early age the eldest knows he does not have the same family set up as the other children in his nursery. We discuss this at length. Children, when growing up and going through school, often dont like to be seen as "different". Not every child is like this, but no matter how well you prepare them, they are bound to feel it.

Before anyone embarks on something like this, they need to go back to being an 8 year old, or a 6 year old (or what ever age) and just think what was important to them then. When I was at school, for instance, I used to feel left out as my mum made my own clothes and they werent as fashionable as everyone elses.

I have a background in psychology, but rarely bother consulting psychological theory or research when thinking about child rearing issues. Ive conducted research studies myself and read enough to realise that if you want to prove a particular theory, keep trying and you will. With small children I prefer to try a qualitative approach and try to put myself in a particular childs shoes. Its not easy for me, its not easy for most people as you have to try and put aside your own feelings and see it from their eyes.

This is what I suggest the donor and the prospective parent do. Its not for me to say its a good or bad thing. Just consider the child.

i'm sorry if you've read my post to suggest that i think you're homophobic, i don't - i carefully tried to avoid that, because from your other posts elsewhere i don't think you are. i also think that every child feels left out for something, although obviously a lot of the things can be very minor, not such a big thing as their family set-up.

i agree that it's very hard to tell how the child will react. but i don't necessarily think it'd turn out as a bad thing, with the right support it could well not be a problem at all. as you say - it's impossible to tell, but i would still tend towards thinking the sperm donation is a good thing.

When someone asks for advice on something like this, I think the best role to take is that of devils advocate.

In other words, point all the pitfalls out, say what if ... ? Then if they do go ahead, they are going into it with their eyes open. It is not going to be easy is it?

I am open minded myself about parenting issues. I dont have a problem with gays, just re read what I said. We cant imagine we know how that child will feel.

Given that I am raising my grandchildren, I know that no matter how much love and how open you are with them, from an early age the eldest knows he does not have the same family set up as the other children in his nursery. We discuss this at length. Children, when growing up and going through school, often dont like to be seen as "different". Not every child is like this, but no matter how well you prepare them, they are bound to feel it.

Before anyone embarks on something like this, they need to go back to being an 8 year old, or a 6 year old (or what ever age) and just think what was important to them then. When I was at school, for instance, I used to feel left out as my mum made my own clothes and they werent as fashionable as everyone elses.

I have a background in psychology, but rarely bother consulting psychological theory or research when thinking about child rearing issues. Ive conducted research studies myself and read enough to realise that if you want to prove a particular theory, keep trying and you will. With small children I prefer to try a qualitative approach and try to put myself in a particular childs shoes. Its not easy for me, its not easy for most people as you have to try and put aside your own feelings and see it from their eyes.

This is what I suggest the donor and the prospective parent do. Its not for me to say its a good or bad thing. Just consider the child.
There are any number of ways in which a child could potentially feel or be seen as different, such as for example having old parent, multi racial parents, gay parents, being unusually poor or affluent, short or tall, fat or thin, clever or dumb the list just goes on and on. It’s simply impossible to protect children against any and all potential difference and if people took your advice and didn’t have children to protect them against potential awkward feelings when growing up, how many people would ever have kids?

As for your distain for studies the overview of studies I linked to showed that children of lesbians are in reality well within the bounds of normality, to me at least that’s rather more persuasive than pessimistic speculation.