http://www.blackcard.org.uk/
Black CARD, 91 Wicker, SHEFFIELD, S3 8HT

Does anyone agree that a company such as black card that has been set up to help "Black" People is racist? I find it disgusting that they can get away with it as if I was to open up a shop next to it called "White CARD" I would be arrested within 24 hours...

I am shocked that connexions and other funding sources are paying to keep this people open...

By bringing this up, I am not being racist myself, or do not mean to be... I just disagree with a company that supports only 1 enthic group and if the tables were turned that would be classed as rascist!!!

Accountable to the black communities through the umbrella organisation of Sheffield BCF (Black Community Forum), the Company’s key aims are:

The development of job opportunities of choice for black and ethnic minority people.

The development of black people's capacity to access such job opportunities.

Accessing the required resources to support economic development within black and ethnic minority communities.

The development of the capacity of black community organisations to initiate, manage and support development.

Your post describes most eloquently why organisations like the above are helpful

Deepak

Your post describes most eloquently why organisations like the above are helpful

Deepak

but thats not the point i am trying to make... i am trying to understand why they will only help "Black" people.... If I had exactly the same company but changed black to white... I would be arrested in minutes... literally...

Of course its not racist! It doesn't support just one minority group, it supports all ethnic minority groups. The clue is in the word 'minority'. As the majority, ie white, British people, we haven't faced discrimination from the majority, white, British employers - have we? People from minority groups have been discriminated against, so organisations like Black Card exist to help them get an equal chance in education, employment etc.

Trubster, I've just read your second post - think about the reasons why organisations like this are needed?

Of course its not racist! It doesn't support just one minority group, it supports all ethnic minority groups. The clue is in the word 'minority'. As the majority, ie white, British people, we haven't faced discrimination from the majority, white, British employers - have we? People from minority groups have been discriminated against, so organisations like Black Card exist to help them get an equal chance in education, employment etc.

Trubster, I've just read your second post - think about the reasons why organisations like this are needed?

But everyone has an equal right to the same things in this country, so there should be no need for organisations like this... if anyone suffers discrimination, they should see a solicitor... or the police.

in the pitsmoor area the White British population is by far the minority and as I have said in the past, agencies such as sure start discriminate against people such as myself by making most of there sessions for babies/toddlers 'Mum's and Babies' and not 'Parent and toddler' because of the religious beliefs of muslim women... that is discrimination towards all men...

I do not see why an agency could not be set up to protect the males in the area against this type of discrimination...

Wasting your breath on here Trubster. This is no place for simple logic or common sense.

Men are still in the minority everywhere in terms of being principle carers for children. In your area, they have obviously gone along with the majority need, so you feel the minority are being discriminated against. Perhaps you could start a voluntary group to overcome this?

Thats why organisations like Black Card were started in the first place - to help minority groups.

But everyone has an equal right to the same things in this country, so there should be no need for organisations like /snip.
But why does anyone find the concept, or even using BLACK or WHITE in the title, racist anyway????

As long as it is not illegal (see note below) or forced upon an unwilling participant, then live and let live....

note - my definition of illegal may be different to yours. For example, I would not consider it to be illegal for someone to use drugs in the privacy of their own home as long as they did not force them upon others. But if they commited a crime to finance the drugs, then that would be illegal. (No, I do not and never have used drugs!!!!)

However, I would consider anything immoral commited against children to be illegal.

Men are still in the minority everywhere in terms of being principle carers for children. In your area, they have obviously gone along with the majority need, so you feel the minority are being discriminated against. Perhaps you could start a voluntary group to overcome this?

Thats why organisations like Black Card were started in the first place - to help minority groups.

Someone needs to do something, because dads do still exist and I, as a dad like to get involved with bringing up my kids...

Another example is when they close off swimming baths to accomidate certain groups too... (I.E. Women)

But why does anyone find the concept, or even using BLACK or WHITE in the title, racist anyway????

As long as it is not illegal (see note below) or forced upon an unwilling participant, then live and let live....

note - my definition of illegal may be different to yours. For example, I would not consider it to be illegal for someone to use drugs in the privacy of their own home as long as they did not force them upon others. But if they commited a crime to finance the drugs, then that would be illegal. (No, I do not and never have used drugs!!!!)

However, I would consider anything immoral commited against children to be illegal.

I agree with you on that, but when Black CARD is advertising funding, help and advice BUT ONLY available to black people, I find it very discriminatory (If thats a real word... lol

EDIT:: Typo

For reference, if you check out the census you will find that there are still more white people in s3/s4.

For reference, if you check out the census you will find that there are still more white people in s3/s4.

Really??? Where are they???? I would estimate a MAXIMUM of 10% in the burngreave area...

But everyone has an equal right to the same things in this country, so there should be no need for organisations like this... if anyone suffers discrimination, they should see a solicitor... or the police.

Ofcourse. In my opinion if you do your job right your in, and if you don't your out. Simple as that! It doesn't matter about what colour or religion you have. If its imperative to have a Black Card organisation in Sheffield then perhaps they should be a White Card organisation aswell? Its only fair.

But everyone has an equal right to the same things in this country, so there should be no need for organisations like this... if anyone suffers discrimination, they should see a solicitor... or the police.

Ofcourse. In my opinion if you do your job right your in, and if you don't your out. Simple as that! It doesn't matter about what colour or religion you have. If its imperative to have a Black Card organisation in Sheffield then perhaps they should be a White Card organisation aswell? Its only fair.

My point exactly......

If its imperative to have a Black Card organisation in Sheffield then perhaps they should be a White Card organisation aswell? Its only fair.
That will never happen

That will never happen

I know it wont, thats what my argument is... "Why not????"

Agree with original poster.

This kind of thing CREATES racism.

At Castle college (and the other sheffield colleges I presume) they have a Black Access course. Only for black people. There is your bog standard Access course but there is one set aside for black people too.

I did the Access course and a couple of black students joined our course, yet we couldn't join theirs. Interestingly they were horrified at the idea of a black only course and refused to join it despite college staff trying to persuade them. So they joined us and everyone got along just fine:shocked:

The vast majority of people want to integrate with each other, REGARDLESS of colour/religion etc and should be allowed to get on with it.

I know it wont, thats what my argument is... "Why not????"
So start one then.

That will never happen

Well it all depends on what sort of Government we have.

When I was and working for our council they used to and maybe still do host a " black workers christmas party" I was never invited to white one. I would like to add I am not racist but think things like this create more problems.

Black Card was set up after the introduction of PATH (Positve Action Training in Housing) which was designed to help ethnic minorities (still hate the phrase) into SCC due to the low intake of EM's applying to the SCC and very few being employed. PATH was so successful that with there only being limited spaces available (13 -15 max) there was a need for other agencies to be set up. Black Card was and is one of these.
SCC eventually closed PATH to the huge dismay of previous participents who after completeing a 2 year course supported the scheme to help others as they started. SCC did not want to fund it anymore so bye-bye.
Black Card and other agencies still survive today but there is huge demand for PATH to be brought back due to its huge success. I am part of that success and still work for SCC. Sheffield is unfortunately the only major city that does not have a PATH scheme currently running; promises of a replacement are empty despite of the benefits that this scheme brings.
The fact that BC is still around shows that there is a need for more agencies like these to help get people into work and its not only EM's that it helps. It also employs white people who actually help the EM's to obtain work, originally there were not enough EM's with the skills to initialise this but with help BC is now succeeding in many ways and is helping people find work.
I was talking to one of it founders recently and she is travelling the country gathering more evidence for her research that these agencies do work and support many people........despite the name. Just because of the name that offeds you?
I also work with white people and they are not what you describe....excrement!!! We are all valued members of a team that serves Sheffield and believe it or not; our "Black" knowledge of the job is very important to the team who have said that we are indespensable to them. We can get people who would give other team members a hard time but if it was not for us and also people of Sheffield do repect our work...regardless of colour.
You do not here EM people complainingg that they want to change the name "Whites Lane" to Benetton Lane do you?

Just a couple of points, really.

Is this organisation REALLY bothering you or are you just trying to stir things up?

I don't like the idea of any sort of positive discrimination - in fact, I regard it as deplorable, but the way I'd prefer to tackle this sort of thing is for people of ANY colour or creed to get together and do things WITHOUT feeling the need to go cap in hand to some local authority / EU sponsored quango and effectively ask if they can have permission to improve their own lives.

Leave them to get on with it and iof the presence of such an organsiation REALLY upsets you, start one off that is 'colour neutral' to remove the need for such a group.

And if your response is 'Oh, we need a whites only group' then you're just part of the problem from the other perspective.

By bringing this up, I am not being racist myself, or do not mean to be... I just disagree with a company that supports only 1 enthic group and if the tables were turned that would be classed as rascist!!!

the tables would not be turned as white people are not classed as an ethnic. - as you stated this is for an ethnic group, so why should that concern you??

the tables would not be turned as white people are not classed as an ethnic group. - as you stated this is for an ethnic group, so why should that concern you??

Of course white people form ethnic groups, we're just not an ethnic MINORITY. We are all part of an ethnic group, whatever our skin tone.

the tables would not be turned as white people are not classed as an ethnic group. - as you stated this is for an ethnic group, so why should that concern you??

Of course white people are an ethnic group, not an ethnic minority in this country, but still an ethnic group. I agree with the OP who I don't believe is trying to stir things up, just point something out. I myself can't see why we have to have separate groups as that just hinders integration. Why do we have black music awards, black achievement in business awards, etc., when to have the white equivalent would not be tolerated as it would be seen as racist. People of all colours in areas of deprivation need help, yet this help is greater dependant upon the colour of your skin. Treat everybody equally and we'll all get along much better.

Just a couple of points, really.

Is this organisation REALLY bothering you or are you just trying to stir things up?

I don't like the idea of any sort of positive discrimination - in fact, I regard it as deplorable, but the way I'd prefer to tackle this sort of thing is for people of ANY colour or creed to get together and do things WITHOUT feeling the need to go cap in hand to some local authority / EU sponsored quango and effectively ask if they can have permission to improve their own lives.

Leave them to get on with it and iof the presence of such an organsiation REALLY upsets you, start one off that is 'colour neutral' to remove the need for such a group.

And if your response is 'Oh, we need a whites only group' then you're just part of the problem from the other perspective.

I agree with you and I know that 2 wrongs dont make a right, but what I dont understand, is how Sheffield College can do similar things like "Black Access Courses" and there is loads of other "Black Only Activities" and that is what I object to, I agree that support agencies should be available but I dont think that the government/scc should make it specific to one gender/race etc...

Of course white people are an ethnic group, not an ethnic minority in this country, but still an ethnic group. I agree with the OP who I don't believe is trying to stir things up, just point something out. I myself can't see why we have to have separate groups as that just hinders integration. Why do we have black music awards, black achievement in business awards, etc., when to have the white equivalent would not be tolerated as it would be seen as racist. People of all colours in areas of deprivation need help, yet this help is greater dependant upon the colour of your skin. Treat everybody equally and we'll all get along much better.

You hit the nail on the head there... I was thinking of the other "Black" services etc, and the music awards hit the nail on the head :)

I know... 2 wrongs dont make a right but even if there was "White" music awards... how much would the organizers etc get accused of racism?

Another example is "BBC 1XTRA - Home of BLACK Music", how about "BBC 1MORE - Home of WHITE Music"... I couldnt see it being tolerated at all, could you???

Just a couple of points, really.

Is this organisation REALLY bothering you or are you just trying to stir things up?

I don't like the idea of any sort of positive discrimination - in fact, I regard it as deplorable, but the way I'd prefer to tackle this sort of thing is for people of ANY colour or creed to get together and do things WITHOUT feeling the need to go cap in hand to some local authority / EU sponsored quango and effectively ask if they can have permission to improve their own lives.

Leave them to get on with it and iof the presence of such an organsiation REALLY upsets you, start one off that is 'colour neutral' to remove the need for such a group.

And if your response is 'Oh, we need a whites only group' then you're just part of the problem from the other perspective.

I can't speak for the OP but don't presume that 'oh we need a whites only group' is how people who complain about exclusive groups will respond.

This is a huge part of the problem. No one can say anything without jumping on the racist bandwagon.

The best point you made is that of colour neutral. We're all PEOPLE. And while it may be a bit naive to think those who are not white don't encounter problems, I do think that segregation of any kind is the wrong way forward.

I believe the vast majority of people, of all colours, want common sense and can quite happily live together and help each other when needed.

Of course white people are an ethnic group, not an ethnic minority in this country, but still an ethnic group. I agree with the OP who I don't believe is trying to stir things up, just point something out. I myself can't see why we have to have separate groups as that just hinders integration. Why do we have black music awards, black achievement in business awards, etc., when to have the white equivalent would not be tolerated as it would be seen as racist. People of all colours in areas of deprivation need help, yet this help is greater dependant upon the colour of your skin. Treat everybody equally and we'll all get along much better.

Brilliantly put. Agree with every word.:thumbsup:

I agree with you and I know that 2 wrongs dont make a right, but what I dont understand, is how Sheffield College can do similar things like "Black Access Courses" and there is loads of other "Black Only Activities" and that is what I object to, I agree that support agencies should be available but I dont think that the government/scc should make it specific to one gender/race etc...

This i agree with!!!

I think alot of racism is caused by the ethnic groups themselves!!!

If they didnt make out as though they were so differnt to us all, then they wouldnt need gender/race specific support agencies.

I am by no means a rasist but i feel some ethnic groups shoot them selves in the foot as so to speak and then blame it on others.

I mean for example. the MOBO awards (Music Of Black Origin), how would ethnic groups see it if we had a MOWO award? (Music of White Origin)!!!! it would just cause madnesss!!

I think what Trubster is trying to say is that he doesnt have a problem with the fact that ethnic groups have there own Support Agencys but just how SOME ethnic groups see that they are treat differently in a negative way.

If they didnt make out as though they were so differnt to us all, then they wouldnt need gender/race specific support agencies.
A black person, for example, could be fully integrated into the local community, born and bred there, but the simple fact that his/her skin colour is different from a white person's would be sufficient to get many people foaming at the mouth and spouting insults.

I think what Trubster is trying to say is that he doesnt have a problem with the fact that ethnic groups have there own Support Agencys but just how SOME ethnic groups see that they are treat differently in a negative way.

Pretty much, obviously, Black CARD has access to "Exclusive" grants and funding and it is funded by connexions (Multi-race, Multi-Gender etc...) so why would they make a problem for themselves by starting a new type JUST for "Black" people, why not just use the traditional "Connexions or CAB agencies"??? or even standard College courses etc (Colleges get a lot more funding for running courses such as "Access to HE (Black)" and "ESoL -English for speakers of other languages"

I just cant understand how they can get away with it when they, in a way, are discriminating against white people because we can not get access to the below services they offer,
Activities at Black CARD include:

Information and Advice - including funding and training.

Managing a Connexions agency - Black CARD hosts two Personal Advisors who support 13-19 year olds. The main aim is to enable them to make the best transition to adulthood and working life.

Strategic Developments - Black CARD staff are engaged in partnerships which are developing new services and opportunities for black people, including business support, work with young people and other social inclusion activities.

Multicultural Advancement Youth Forum (MCA). The main aim of this group is to encourage young people to have a voice and influence in their communities. They provide development and volunteering opportunities, including activities, events and conferences.

Other Black CARD Services:

Black CARD provides the following services for developing BME organisations and groups:



Quality Systems - Assistance to develop quality systems (PQASSO / Quality First). Contact our Senior Administrator on (0114) 2634404 or Black Community Forum's Quality Officer (0114) 2767262.

Funding Advice - Assistance and advice on accessing funds. Contact our Grants Funding Worker on (0114) 2634404.

Payroll / Financial Services - provision of payroll services and assistance with financial systems. Contact our Finance Manager on (0114) 2634404.

A black person, for example, could be fully integrated into the local community, born and bred there, but the simple fact that his/her skin colour is different from a white person's would be sufficient to get many people foaming at the mouth and spouting insults.

But that is only RACIST people who would behave like that! I do not agree that is an explination for extra funding, services and resources to be spent on "Black" people

There is a perfectly good post by bassplayer above explaining why this group exists which you appear to have ignored. Local councils have a duty to promote race equality and if their recruitment practices are not attracting suitably skilled candidates from all sections of the popultaion, then they are quite right to try to do something about it.

BTW It is for people from all ethnic minorities, not just black people.

There are plenty more organisations like this, often set up by ethnic minorities to support similar disadvantaged people who are not served well by mainstream services. Sometimes these are supported by public funds if they support local government objectives, and sometimes they aren't.

All part of the diverse society we live in.

In an ideal world everyone would have equal access to opportunities but until that happens, organisations like black card will be needed.

Yeah, just because some white people have a horrible negative rasist opinion on black people doesnt meant that the government should provide more for the ethinc groups ONLY!!!!

I mean, if i moved over to africa or something amogst those lines and opened up a white only support agency, it would probably get burned down!!!

The point is that there is way to much support for one specific group of enthics. if we are all meant to "be the same" then why not treat us all the same!

I feel the goverment are just adding wood + petrol to a constant burning problem with racisim!

For example, a quick search on google brought up these results for "Black People"

Search terms: services for black and ethnic minority

http://www.bemccf.org.uk/ - The Black and Ethnic Minority Community Care Forum

http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/health_topics/black_and.html - Our programme of work will examine evidence about inequities in access to health care experienced by black and minority ethnic groups and analyse NHS efforts to improve access to care.

http://www.ntw.nhs.uk/?p=services&s=nnn&c=BlackandEthnicMinority - NHS Services for Black and Ethnic Minority Communities, Asylum Seekers and Refugees

http://www.services4notts.org.uk/category.asp?c=122 - Services with a particular relevance for Black & Minority Ethnic children & young people

I could keep going with the other 1,330,000 results, but I dont see the point, its organisations like the above (Special Healthcare etc...) that I disagree with too!

Someone needs to do something, because dads do still exist and I, as a dad like to get involved with bringing up my kids...

Another example is when they close off swimming baths to accomidate certain groups too... (I.E. Women)

Well I suggest you do something yourself if it's that important to you. The cry of 'why doesn't someone do something' is one of the most pathetic around. If having positively discriminatory organisations upsets you report them to CRE or alternatively set one up for whites only.

I suggest you try before you start saying something along the lines of 'they'd never let me'. No one has supplied any evidence that this would happen.

So, instead of coming on a forum and frothing, do something positive.

Well I suggest you do something yourself if it's that important to you. The cry of 'why doesn't someone do something' is one of the most pathetic around. If having positively discriminatory organisations upsets you report them to CRE or alternatively set one up for whites only.

I suggest you try before you start saying something along the lines of 'they'd never let me'. No one has supplied any evidence that this would happen.

So, instead of coming on a forum and frothing, do something positive.

Come on... if I opened up an activity group, i.e. baby swimming for "White People Only" I would either get shot, stabbed or arrested... if I did that, the PCP (Political Correctness Police) would class that as Racist and I would be prosecuted for "Inspiring Racial Hatrid"

FAO MODS: Title was spelt with CARD in uppercase because that is the name of the company concerned, Sorry if I wasn't allowed to put it in uppercase.

I mean if you think about it, if there wasnt things like mobo then we wouldnt all be wasting our time talking about it now!

Bottom line is that its an issue and needs addressing when our waste of time government gets a grip of this country!

I mean if you think about it, if there wasnt things like mobo then we wouldnt all be wasting our time talking about it now!

Bottom line is that its an issue and needs addressing when our waste of time government gets a grip of this country!

Shouldnt that be "If" and not "When"????

If having positively discriminatory organisations upsets you report them to CRE or alternatively set one up for whites only.

Ah, that would be Trevor Phillips aka "joke".

Ken Livingstone said Mr Phillips had "an absolutely disgraceful record" at the Commission for Racial Equality.

From here. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6201127.stm)

Come on... if I opened up an activity group, i.e. baby swimming for "White People Only" I would either get shot, stabbed or arrested... if I did that, the PCP (Political Correctness Police) would class that as Racist and I would be prosecuted for "Inspiring Racial Hatrid"

Why don't you try, then you will be able to use facts instead of assumptions to prove your points?

To be fair tho even though they are only assumptions, there acurate ones!!!

we all know thats what would happen!!

Why don't you try, then you will be able to use facts instead of assumptions to prove your points?
Assumptions?
I think anyone with their head NOT in their arse would see that its a little more than an assumption.

yet another try at creating problems and arguements over race

the reason there is places like black card, and the black police officers thingy and the muslim council of great britain etc
IS
because they ARE the minority, they DO suffer the same problems as they have through the 50s/60s/70s etc and always will cos of narrowminded people

a lot of time they need more support / different support to different problems, and a place they feel more secure / welcoming

I mean, if i moved over to africa or something amogst those lines and opened up a white only support agency, it would probably get burned down!!!



Actually Brits abroad can be the worst at setting up white /english only groups and schools . EG Spain at the moment

Assumptions?
I think anyone with their head NOT in their arse would see that its a little more than an assumption.

so you know for a FACT that nobody can set up a white peoples baby swimming session then? even tho i cant remember hearing of anybody ever trying to do so?

yet another try at creating problems and arguements over race

the reason there is places like black card, and the black police officers thingy and the muslim council of great britain etc
IS
because they ARE the minority, they DO suffer the same problems as they have through the 50s/60s/70s etc and always will cos of narrowminded people

a lot of time they need more support / different support to different problems, and a place they feel more secure / welcoming
Sorry but thats just bol****s

so you know for a FACT that nobody can set up a white peoples baby swimming session then? even tho i cant remember hearing of anybody ever trying to do so?
Yes, i do.
Next question?

Sorry but thats just bol****s
so you saying theres no bigotry, racism, getting shoved into ghettos, trouble getting jobs, picked on by police then?
just like theres always been?

its still there, and still happens

Sorry but thats just bol****s


Mel, I think that means "you win"

Mel, I think that means "you win"

lol well i can see it was a short to the point answer with no substance :P

*puts on rich costume*
i can see daddy getting a "holiday" soon with the amount of arguements and blunt remarks hes having

</rich mode off>

Sorry but thats just bol****s
Melthebell, here's a definitive and well-reasoned response to your excellent post. I think it tells you all you need to know...

so you saying theres no bigotry, racism, getting shoved into ghettos, trouble getting jobs, picked on by police then?
just like theres always been?

its still there, and still happens

Not if you've got your head up your arse.

so you saying theres no bigotry, racism, getting shoved into ghettos, trouble getting jobs
So YOUR saying that only applies to the ethnics and not white???
Look at Trevor Philips, the biggest racist ive ever come accross but because hes black, hes untouchable. Blacks, asians and anyone not white just plays the race card when it suits.
Tell me they dont, go on i dare you.
Cos that would make you a liar.
As for your 'holiday' comment. If you cant take a little bluntness then go ask your mummy for a clean hanky.
As for arguments, well im soooooooooooooooo sorry but i didnt realise we all had to agree all the time.

So YOUR saying that only applies to the ethnics and not white???
Look at Trevor Philips, the biggest racist ive ever come accross but because hes black, hes untouchable. Blacks, asians and anyone not white just plays the race card when it suits.
Tell me they dont, go on i dare you.
Cos that would make you a liar.
1: theres a difference between being racist and fighting for rights for your race
2: the majority of minorities DO NOT play a race card and the ones you do see on tv etc are the exception to the rule and are shown exactly for this reason, to cause resentful, bitter, misguided, ignorant people to feed the race war.
3: whites are never going to be the minority in this country no matter how many scare stories the conspiracy nuts perpetuate and will NEVER have the same problems to the same extent as minorities

lol and your edited holiday bit
it was a bit of lighthearted fun, lighten up dude

lol and your edited holiday bit
it was a bit of lighthearted fun, lighten up dude
I gathered that, thats why i was even more sarcastic with my answer:hihi:
Still, i bet i could get one if i really tried:D

1: theres a difference between being racist and fighting for rights for your race


I take it from that remark that you are happy for the BNP to exist then as that is what they are doing, "fighting for rights for your race".

:)

I take it from that remark that you are happy for the BNP to exist then as that is what they are doing, "fighting for rights for your race".

:)

im happy for people to have a voice for all types of beliefs, no matter how misguided
its also my right that i can smash em down too :P
indeed if the bnp etc didnt exist, life wouldnt be much fun would it, 80% of all arguements would cease :(

I take it from that remark that you are happy for the BNP to exist then as that is what they are doing, "fighting for rights for your race".

:)
absolutely - keep em where we can see em.

Does anyone agree that a company such as black card that has been set up to help "Black" People is racist? I find it disgusting that they can get away with it as if I was to open up a shop next to it called "White CARD" I would be arrested within 24 hours...

I am shocked that connexions and other funding sources are paying to keep this people open...

By bringing this up, I am not being racist myself, or do not mean to be... I just disagree with a company that supports only 1 enthic group and if the tables were turned that would be classed as rascist!!!

Agree totally. I am not racist either. A relative saw 2 asian buys chasing and beating a white boy outside TJ Hhughes in town. The bus driver let the thugs on and when someone questioned the bus driver why he let them on without question he shrugged it off. I do believe if it had been the other way around, there would been a cry of 'racism'. Just like if we had 'white-only' groups, that would be considered racism whereas this, and the Black Access course someone mentioned, aren't.

Agree totally. I am not racist either. A relative saw 2 asian buys chasing and beating a white boy outside TJ Hhughes in town. The bus driver let the thugs on and when someone questioned the bus driver why he let them on without question he shrugged it off. I do believe if it had been the other way around, there would been a cry of 'racism'. Just like if we had 'white-only' groups, that would be considered racism whereas this, and the Black Access course someone mentioned, aren't.
1: attacks like that happen, 1 attack does not all asians it make racist thugs
2: obviously the bus drivers just doing his job then and aint bothered whos doing what to whom
3: most attacks ARE white on black or asian and have always been like that
4: again, theres no facts to say there would or wouldnt be an outcry as to my knowledge nobody as tried doing any such groups as there isnt actually a need apart from creating racial agrovation. (apart from the obvious "white" right wing groups
5: again, there is a need for minority groups to go to places where they feel secure, with like minded people to get solutions to problems in life THEY are suffering. most groups normally are mainly of white people by white people, depending on where you go there will be a fair smattering of blacks......i dont think theres barely ever asians (unless the group is in an asian ghetto)

You hit the nail on the head there... I was thinking of the other "Black" services etc, and the music awards hit the nail on the head :)

I know... 2 wrongs dont make a right but even if there was "White" music awards... how much would the organizers etc get accused of racism?

Another example is "BBC 1XTRA - Home of BLACK Music", how about "BBC 1MORE - Home of WHITE Music"... I couldnt see it being tolerated at all, could you???

Like a moderator pointed out Trubster, Why does this concern you.
Personally I do not think you understand the reason why Black Card operates as a business.
Firstly may I point out that some black people do NOT get the support from local authorities (or feel comfortable with the police) as they feel they are being discriminated. (does stephen lawrence "mcpherson report" mean anything to you)
Another strong and probably the most important point here is you have no idea of what it feels like to be a minority. Not getting jobs because of the creed and colour of skin. Fair enough racism isnt as blatant as it was 20 years ago and has improved but have you ever been to a football match and witnessed racial abuse. For a black person in the stands it is horrible.
Another can of worms you have opened up is BBX 1xtra. For years black music has always sold and been popular but the BBC took a very long time to recognise this. Even in the 60's Tony Blackburn was never allowed on legal radio because his music was too black orientated. Who is the racist here!!!!
I think you need to study the history of white culture first and then check out the history of when black people first arrived to gather your evidence to why organisations set up companies like Black Card.
Stupid thread and you sound like you are just bitter that minorities are getting an equal playing field. One point I do agree with you is this, I believe that immigrants should not have any prefererential treatment in housing, as this has been the case in certain areas. When my parents first came to England they had to work there way to the top, so should the immigrants.

So YOUR saying that only applies to the ethnics and not white???
Look at Trevor Philips, the biggest racist ive ever come accross but because hes black, hes untouchable. Blacks, asians and anyone not white just plays the race card when it suits.
Tell me they dont, go on i dare you.
Cos that would make you a liar.
As for your 'holiday' comment. If you cant take a little bluntness then go ask your mummy for a clean hanky.
As for arguments, well im soooooooooooooooo sorry but i didnt realise we all had to agree all the time.

So Daddy, Trevor Phillips is a racist!!!
Is Margaret Thatcher a racist. She was prime minister and she wanted repatriation after YOUR people asked common wealth countries to help and rebuild Britain after world war 2. Great way to show grattitude to the minorities.
I can see why people like you are frustrated as this country is becomming a bigger melting pot.
The race card is very easy to play when you deal with a racist institution. I am of mixed race and I have black and white in my family. There is not a day that i do not detect a hint of racism from both sides. However I get on with it and do not let it bother me, unless it halts me in making any progress.
You sound like a redneck that is searching for excuses in life to why things are happening that you do not like.

You hit the nail on the head there... I was thinking of the other "Black" services etc, and the music awards hit the nail on the head :)

I know... 2 wrongs dont make a right but even if there was "White" music awards... how much would the organizers etc get accused of racism?

Another example is "BBC 1XTRA - Home of BLACK Music", how about "BBC 1MORE - Home of WHITE Music"... I couldnt see it being tolerated at all, could you???
LOL i missed this post, how stupid of me

trub id brush up on your music history as well as your sociopolitical
there barely is any white music
english folk music and classical possibly

any other comes from jazz or blues mostly
which is mostly black, was invented by blacks

So YOUR saying that only applies to the ethnics and not white???
Look at Trevor Philips, the biggest racist ive ever come accross but because hes black, hes untouchable. Blacks, asians and anyone not white just plays the race card when it suits.
Tell me they dont, go on i dare you.
Cos that would make you a liar.
As for your 'holiday' comment. If you cant take a little bluntness then go ask your mummy for a clean hanky.
As for arguments, well im soooooooooooooooo sorry but i didnt realise we all had to agree all the time.

Yes it is an easy card to play, but don'y you think that it is played less now?
Many people have gotten wise to this one
Ali G ,.."Is it b' cos I is black?" almost totally destroyed that ace in the pack and many know this lol...but the man thing is that all people need support black and white.

All people suffer hardship and poverty but statistics show that it is mainly an ethnic (still hate the word) problem.
Going back to your Black thing.....look at English history, when taught in schools we were all told that from 1066 etc.......what about before that?
Is it ever mentioned that black people used to rule these shores?....no
Is it taught that black/ethnic people helped fight the wars that the British won in the days of QE 1st? no! She only referred to them as " There appear to be a lot of Blackamoors in London a lately"
Is it taught that Florence Nightingale blocked the travel of a Black nurse to accompany her to the wars to tend to the British soldiers?.....no
Black History is not taught as a subject in schools so access courses for this are called Black History...not only open for ethnic(still hate the word) people but everyone.
Black card, white card, green card, oops sorry no green people, yellow card, red card, brown card...what does it matter as long as people get the help they need.

[:thumbsup: spot on bass player. The only way to attack ignorance is with intelligence. Maybe they think minorities do not have any history except the slave trade. I forgot Cleopatra had blue eyes and blonde hair. NOT

[:thumbsup: spot on bass player. The only way to attack ignorance is with intelligence. Maybe they think minorities do not have any history except the slave trade. I forgot Cleopatra had blue eyes and blonde hair. NOT

So how do you explain your use of the comment.....YOUR people....
Seems like your the one with the chip on your shoulder.
MY people happen to be British, so who are YOURS?

You sound like a redneck that is searching for excuses in life to why things are happening that you do not like.
With the mods keeping an eye on me id hate to say what you sound like
Racial discrimination is just a gravy train you all jump on when you cant have things your own way.
Grow up.

[:thumbsup: spot on bass player. The only way to attack ignorance is with intelligence. Maybe they think minorities do not have any history except the slave trade. I forgot Cleopatra had blue eyes and blonde hair. NOT
Thank you ,but it has to be said we ALL suffer hardship in many ways but help should come across all areas for all people.

So how do you explain your use of the comment.....YOUR people....
Seems like your the one with the chip on your shoulder.
MY people happen to be British, so who are YOURS?

My people sounds very much like Enoch Powell.
Everyone needs help at sometime...is it wrong sometimes to single out one sector of the community that is suffering more than the other at a point in time?

So how do you explain your use of the comment.....YOUR people....
Seems like your the one with the chip on your shoulder.
MY people happen to be British, so who are YOURS?


With the mods keeping an eye on me id hate to say what you sound like


British

The problem is your kind (or the kind you portray) do not seem to accept me.
You do not see me as British. Your views represent the views of a redneck.
I hate red necks. (racists)
As for chips, how can I have a chip on the shoulders, Ive worked in the police force, I have a white girlfriend. My great grandfather was Scottish (white).
I have chips on my shoulders with people like you that sound sinister. Not with true British people.

British

The problem is your kind (or the kind you portray) do not seem to accept me.
You do not see me as British. Your views represent the views of a redneck.
I hate red necks. (racists)
As for chips, how can I have a chip on the shoulders, Ive worked in the police force, I have a white girlfriend. My great grandfather was Scottish (white).
I have chips on my shoulders with people like you that sound sinister. Not with true British people.
So your not going to answer my question then?
Just blurt out more of the same 'oh poor me, poor me im being descriminated against cos i is black.
Like i said, grow up.
Oh bye the way bassplayer, it was your friend who used the term 'your people'
Not me so before you go on youd better see who said what.

So your not going to answer my question then?
Just blurt out more of the same 'oh poor me, poor me im being descriminated against cos i is black.
Like i said, grow up.
Oh bye the way bassplayer, it was your friend who used the term 'your people'
Not me so before you go on youd better see who said what.
the daddy its really starting to sound like a fartfirst alike..........although a less educated one, who really is stubborn and hiding your ears / eyes from everybody elses views on the subject.

admittedly im white, english, working class so you can slag off / argue with me till the cows come home cos i wont actually ever feel the things im writing about, but from what dj4321 has written it sounds like he is of minority descent in this country and HAS felt the predjidice 4 real (as somebody once carved into their arm) now get off your high horse and listen to somebody whos actually lived the life, im not saying change, im saying listen.....learn

the problems start with the exact terminology thats getting banded around in this thread now
words like them, us, we, my people


people are already divided before we start

Of course white people form ethnic groups, we're just not an ethnic MINORITY. We are all part of an ethnic group, whatever our skin tone.

my mistake - i did mean we are not an ethnic minority.

I agree with the op completely on this topic - this kind of thing just encourages segregation withing society.

I find it absurd that white people can be discriminated against in todays society.

ie - the fire/police serive have to hit targets as to how many 'ethinc minorities' they employ. So in a recruitment situation, by being black/asian etc you would have a higher chance of getting the job than a white person. - how is this fair?

I know for a fact that the fire service have employed a black person for a job even though there was a white person applying who was better qualified/fitter etc!

the problems start with the exact terminology thats getting banded around in this thread now
words like them, us, we, my people


people are already divided before we start

EXACTLY and dj4321 is also using terms such as 'YOUR people'

This is OUR country, and by OUR I mean anyone who chooses to live by the laws of the land and mankind. It DOESN'T MATTER what colour anyone is.

There are faults and racism in the white community and there are faults and racism from some in the 'ethnic' communities. Just because there are the odd few bad apples in each barrel doesn't mean the rest of us can't get on with each other.

Segregation creates tension and racism. Why can no one see that?

So your not going to answer my question then?
Just blurt out more of the same 'oh poor me, poor me im being descriminated against cos i is black.
Like i said, grow up.
Oh bye the way bassplayer, it was your friend who used the term 'your people'
Not me so before you go on youd better see who said what.
Miss quoted and I apologise

EXACTLY and dj4321 is also using terms such as 'YOUR people'

This is OUR country, and by OUR I mean anyone who chooses to live by the laws of the land and mankind. It DOESN'T MATTER what colour anyone is.

There are faults and racism in the white community and there are faults and racism from some in the 'ethnic' communities. Just because there are the odd few bad apples in each barrel doesn't mean the rest of us can't get on with each other.

Segregation creates tension and racism. Why can no one see that?
and can i add that the op's op isnt about segreagation, its about extra support for people missing out on such support

the daddy its really starting to sound like a fartfirst alike..........although a less educated one, who really is stubborn and hiding your ears / eyes from everybody elses views on the subject.

admittedly im white, english, working class so you can slag off / argue with me till the cows come home cos i wont actually ever feel the things im writing about, but from what dj4321 has written it sounds like he is of minority descent in this country and HAS felt the predjidice 4 real (as somebody once carved into their arm) now get off your high horse and listen to somebody whos actually lived the life, im not saying change, im saying listen.....learn
Love it,
You come out with a pile of steaming turd like that, all the time missing the point of what i said so let me tell you again.
Listen.
Ready?
Good!
It was djwatsit who said YOUR PEOPLE!!!
Now pull your head out from the cavity in which ytou keep it and read the post correctly next time.
Okay dokay?
Lovely:)

Miss quoted and I apologise
:thumbsup:

and can i add that the op's op isnt about segreagation, its about extra support for people missing out on such support

The op's op is about people from ethnic communities being given extra support and also how having an organisation for one particular group creates feeling of exclusion for other groups. So segregation of this kind is not a very intelligent thing. But hey, it's keeping someone in a job:thumbsup:

I agree with the op completely on this topic - this kind of thing just encourages segregation withing society.

I find it absurd that white people can be discriminated against in todays society.

ie - the fire/police serive have to hit targets as to how many 'ethinc minorities' they employ. So in a recruitment situation, by being black/asian etc you would have a higher chance of getting the job than a white person. - how is this fair?

I know for a fact that the fire service have employed a black person for a job even though there was a white person applying who was better qualified/fitter etc!
But isn't it Governmental initiative to have a certain number of Ethnic staff in most jobs?
SCC have scrapped a great way to ensure this by saying that each departmental manager must make sure that they have the correct number of
non- white staff in their department. This is not maintained at all and so the EM's lose out again.
Its not that I am saying that EM's should get all the good jobs, but shouldn't the get the same rights to obtain a good job like others? Are they only entitled to menial jobs?

and can i add that the op's op isnt about segreagation, its about extra support for people missing out on such support
At the exclusion of other people who dont have the correct colour of skin.
Now if thats not racist then what do you call it?

So your not going to answer my question then?
Just blurt out more of the same 'oh poor me, poor me im being descriminated against cos i is black.
Like i said, grow up.
Oh bye the way bassplayer, it was your friend who used the term 'your people'
Not me so before you go on youd better see who said what.


I did answer your question.

I am British...

I mentioned YOUR people because YOU are the thing that is wrong with this country. Your racist attitude. See I clocked what you tried to do by making me sound like a bigot. You disgust me to a level that I would love to know who you are.
I am not poor and when I have been in need, never asked for it from any organisation such as Black Card. I have dealt with things myself.
I work 2 jobs and have a mortgage.
I know by YOUR racial standards all black people are the same but I am of mixed race as my great grand father was Scottish & I have always maintained my british heritage. My son is of mixed race and has adopt his english and carribbean heritage.
Once again proof is evident YOU just do not accept me for being British. People like you make me vomit in disgust. Im glad you mentioned the YOUR quote. You fell for the bait because the majority of white Britain does not share your pathetic views.

SCC have scrapped a great way to ensure this by saying that each departmental manager must make sure that they have the correct number of
non- white staff in their department. This is not maintained at all and so the EM's lose out again.
Its not that I am saying that EM's should get all the good jobs, but shouldn't the get the same rights to obtain a good job like others? Are they only entitled to menial jobs?
They should get the same rights, so bin the quotas and let them get it on their merrits and not their ethnicity.
Or am i being too radical here?

some people are just too stupid to have a sensible debate with
im out

good look dj and the rest :P

I did answer your question.

I am British...

I mentioned YOUR people because YOU are the thing that is wrong with this country. Your racist attitude. See I clocked what you tried to do by making me sound like a bigot. You disgust me to a level that I would love to know who you are.
I am not poor and when I have been in need, never asked for it from any organisation such as Black Card. I have dealt with things myself.
I work 2 jobs and have a mortgage.
I know by YOUR racial standards all black people are the same but I am of mixed race as my great grand father was Scottish & I have always maintained my british heritage. My son is of mixed race and has adopt his english and carribbean heritage.
Once again proof is evident YOU just do not accept me for being British. People like you make me vomit in disgust. Im glad you mentioned the YOUR quote. You fell for the bait because the majority of white Britain does not share your pathetic views.
Listen boy!
You can find out where i am anytime, just pm me.
Speak to you soon then?
And your 'bait' was cleverly disguised as a moronic comment made by a moron.

some people are just too stupid to have a sensible debate with
im out

good look dj and the rest :P
Re-most of your comments

Listen boy!
You can find out where i am anytime, just pm me.
Speak to you soon then?
And your 'bait' was cleverly disguised as a moronic comment made by a moron.

' Listen boy! ' etc.... sounds uncomfortably like fighting talk to me; referring to someone as 'moron' is abusive.

I did answer your question.

I am British...

I mentioned YOUR people because YOU are the thing that is wrong with this country. Your racist attitude. See I clocked what you tried to do by making me sound like a bigot. You disgust me to a level that I would love to know who you are.
I am not poor and when I have been in need, never asked for it from any organisation such as Black Card. I have dealt with things myself.
I work 2 jobs and have a mortgage.
I know by YOUR racial standards all black people are the same but I am of mixed race as my great grand father was Scottish & I have always maintained my british heritage. My son is of mixed race and has adopt his english and carribbean heritage.
Once again proof is evident YOU just do not accept me for being British. People like you make me vomit in disgust. Im glad you mentioned the YOUR quote. You fell for the bait because the majority of white Britain does not share your pathetic views.


That's a pretty shocking post. And there are some remarks that just aren't called for.

' Listen boy! ' etc.... sounds uncomfortably like fighting talk to me; referring to someone as 'moron' is abusive.
id read what he has to say before judging what i said.

Probably time the mods got rid of this thread.

Listen boy!
You can find out where i am anytime, just pm me.
Speak to you soon then?
And your 'bait' was cleverly disguised as a moronic comment made by a moron.

God are you trying to dig a trench with your racial overtones. Now you are calling me boy.
leave ya number and I will idiot.
I would give you more respect if you admit that you are a racist. It would stop all the arguements then, as it is to be expected by your level of intelligence and way of thinking.
My question to you is do you have any ethnic minority in your direct family or blood line. I wonder how they would feel with your attitude.

I would give you more respect if you admit that you are a racist.
You first.

You first.

What the hell are you on about. On what grounds have I been racist. I have no problem with Black Card or the BNP for that matter.
You definately need education!!!!!

What the hell are you on about. On what grounds have I been racist. I have no problem with Black Card or the BNP for that matter.
You definately need education!!!!!
Its YOU that has turned this thread into something it wasnt.
Would you like any salt with that chip?

OK - chill out please.

Any more threats or posturings and people will be looking at some SERIOUS Forum Holiday time.

No more warnings - anything else and there will be bans.

Its YOU that has turned this thread into something it wasnt.
Would you like any salt with that chip?


How would you like it if I called you cracker. Calling me a boy is not called for. I am calling for the mods to close this pathetic thread. As you are now annoying the crap out of me.

How would you like it if I called you cracker. Calling me a boy is not called for. I am calling for the mods to close this pathetic thread. As you are now annoying the crap out of me.

Ahem....see my note above.

We posted at the same time - let's just chill now, please.

But isn't it Governmental initiative to have a certain number of Ethnic staff in most jobs?
SCC have scrapped a great way to ensure this by saying that each departmental manager must make sure that they have the correct number of
non- white staff in their department. This is not maintained at all and so the EM's lose out again.
Its not that I am saying that EM's should get all the good jobs, but shouldn't the get the same rights to obtain a good job like others? Are they only entitled to menial jobs?

If you're good enough for job - you get it! - that's how it should works.

I'd rather have any coloured firefighter saving me from a fire who was the best recruit rather than the 2nd best just because they're an ethnic minority.

see my point???

No prob,:thumbsup:
Have a nice day:)

How would you like it if I called you cracker. Calling me a boy is not called for. I am calling for the mods to close this pathetic thread. As you are now annoying the crap out of me.
So why cracker then?
Just curious

sorry i got to say this.... its only racist if u make the term racist... yes its always good to think about bein politically correct but like i said if u make it sound/feel racist it is...

They should get the same rights, so bin the quotas and let them get it on their merrits and not their ethnicity.
Or am i being too radical here?
Oh boy!! lol there seems to be no pleasing you lol

sorry i got to say this.... its only racist if u make the term racist... yes its always good to think about bein politically correct but like i said if u make it sound/feel racist it is...
zactly
some people are always on the lookout for something to turn into a racial problem, something to uphold their already held belief, to somehow make them believe what they think is true.

thats why they pick up on the asians attack, new mosque built here, there, muslims this, muslims that

damn i wasnt posting in this thread again, forgot lol

Oh boy!! lol there seems to be no pleasing you lol
Told you it was radical:hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

If you're good enough for job - you get it! - that's how it should works.

I'd rather have any coloured firefighter saving me from a fire who was the best recruit rather than the 2nd best just because they're an ethnic minority.

see my point???
I'll save you from any fire mate and guess what?........Yes I am Black ;)

I'll save you from any fire mate and guess what?........Yes I am Black ;)
But are you a fireman?

But are you a fireman?
LOL nice one The Daddy and no I'm not

LOL nice one The Daddy and no I'm not
:hihi::hihi: :hihi:

I dont think anyone is trying to be rascist on this thread they are just trying to say that segregating people into courses for Black only etc is not helping every one mix together.

My nephew and niece are mixed race and where both asked to go on courses for Black people while at school they both declined as they didnt like this idea why should they be made to feel different! They also had questionaires given to them asking if they felt Black or White what is that all about? It is wrong every one should be treated the same.

I dont think anyone is trying to be rascist on this thread they are just trying to say that segregating people into courses for Black only etc is not helping every one mix together.

My nephew and niece are mixed race and where both asked to go on courses for Black people while at school they both declined as they didnt like this idea why should they be made to feel different! They also had questionaires given to them asking if they felt Black or White what is that all about? It is wrong every one should be treated the same.
yes their shouldnt be segregation but as ive said loads before on this thread they arent to segregate they are to give support to different problems etc which people may need, have.

so you saying dyslexic people shouldnt have special help?
special schools shouldnt exist

they are not instead of they are aswell as
some people dont need em, some people do

and that posts totally against the op's op anyway, the rest are arguing about why there can or cannot be a white equivelant, which would mean even more segregation?

I dont think anyone is trying to be rascist on this thread they are just trying to say that segregating people into courses for Black only etc is not helping every one mix together.

My nephew and niece are mixed race and where both asked to go on courses for Black people while at school they both declined as they didnt like this idea why should they be made to feel different! They also had questionaires given to them asking if they felt Black or White what is that all about? It is wrong every one should be treated the same.


I feel this post is what most of us on here are on about. Well put nightwish.

Fancy asking kids if they feel more black than white or more white than black.
Madness and surely most people would agree with that?

Black and white people have a lot to learn from each other and segregating them is creating problems.

yes their shouldnt be segregation but as ive said loads before on this thread they arent to segregate they are to give support to different problems etc which people may need, have.

so you saying dyslexic people shouldnt have special help?
special schools shouldnt exist

they are not instead of they are aswell as
some people dont need em, some people do

and that posts totally against the op's op anyway, the rest are arguing about why there can or cannot be a white equivelant, which would mean even more segregation?

I think some are arguing that to have courses, groups etc just for whites would be deemed racist, I don't think anyone is saying they WANT white courses, groups etc.

There shouldn't be black this and black that, or white this or white that.

REMOVE THE COLOUR!!!

I feel this post is what most of us on here are on about. Well put nightwish.

Fancy asking kids if they feel more black than white or more white than black.
Madness and surely most people would agree with that?

Black and white people have a lot to learn from each other and segregating them is creating problems.

Atlast there is some common sense posted, however the the original thread in why there needs to be Black Card available in the community. The answer is quite simple. Some people in the ethnic minorities feel they have been discriminated against and have problems. Anyone who says there is no racism in the Sheffield community needs to start asking questions to there fellow friends of colour and you will get your answer.
On the grounds of access courses, I feel it should not just be black people allowed to do this but also white people from poorer backgrounds to give them a chance in education. I knew this debate would turn sour. What people on this forum have not been able to answer is; if anyone had a racial discrimination problem, how can a c.a.b. or white organisation solve it, IF they are not qualified to do deal with this. R.E.C and Black Card specialise in this field.

Atlast there is some common sense posted, however the the original thread in why there needs to be Black Card available in the community. The answer is quite simple. Some people in the ethnic minorities feel they have been discriminated against and have problems. Anyone who says there is no racism in the Sheffield community needs to start asking questions to there fellow friends of colour and you will get your answer.
On the grounds of access courses, I feel it should not just be black people allowed to do this but also white people from poorer backgrounds to give them a chance in education. I knew this debate would turn sour. What people on this forum have not been able to answer is; if anyone had a racial discrimination problem, how can a c.a.b. or white organisation solve it, IF they are not qualified to do deal with this. R.E.C and Black Card specialise in this field.
I dissagree with pretty much most of that.
Happy new year

[QUOTE=melthebell]

so you saying dyslexic people shouldnt have special help?
special schools shouldnt exist


No but both black and white dyslexic people will get the same help and special schools have both black and white students so where is your point here!

The point is every one no matter what colour should be able to go and get the help they need.

[QUOTE=melthebell]

so you saying dyslexic people shouldnt have special help?
special schools shouldnt exist


No but both black and white dyslexic people will get the same help and special schools have both black and white students so where is your point here!

The point is every one no matter what colour should be able to go and get the help they need.
yes they should, thats my point, thats why there is a need for places for black people to go which is created specially for that need by people with the same experiences , knowledge etc.

thats why ex drug users help druggies, ex homeless people help the homeless, it makes sense

what im trying to get at is your family may not need the place...great, your family may not get the same problems...even better
but some people will

as ive said before its not an instead of its an aswell as, gives somebody a choice.
why should somebody whod prefer to visit and talk with somebody black be denied cos its deemed to be racist by a few people?
im sure white people could ask for a white dr?
wimin can get seen by a woman dr

im sure white people could ask for a white dr?
wimin can get seen by a woman dr

actually thats not true - it is classed as racism./sexism etc - a woman can request to have a female nurse present during examinations.

A patient cannot rquest a white doctor just because they don't want a black/asian one and rightly so as this is racism

I work as a mortgage adviser over the phones in a call centre. I once had a muslim male customer demand to speak to a male advisor as he didn't want to discuss his finances with a woman.

This was sexism and the company I work for refused his request as it would be seen as supporting sexism as an employer.

Yes it is wrong, if it was other way round it would be shut down straight away.

I've watched this thread with interest. I truly believe that everyone, regardless of gender or race should have the same opportunities. I don't believe it happens as most people in power are white males. I can remember when women were not treated equally, and the outcry when some job adverts specifically requested women to apply! Lots of men felt very threatened I think. In my first job in a Scottish council office, any woman getting married had to resign (1963). Their policy was to only employ men and single women, as any married women would be supported by their husbands and would only need to work for pin money!! Things have changed - partly because women formed groups to support each other, and to raise the issue of equal opportunities for women.

I see no harm in any disadvantaged group in our society developing a self help network. I don't think a majority group, ie white British people in Britain can possibly need the same help to survive. Or am I missing something?

I see no harm in any disadvantaged group in our society developing a self help network. I don't think a majority group, ie white British people in Britain can possibly need the same help to survive. Or am I missing something?
no macbeth that about sums it all up nicely

It would be lovely if black people, and disabled people, and women were offered equality of opportunity in society, but in honest truth they aren't- and while people complain about every occasion to change things so that true inclusivity is offered, they never will be.

What I mean by inclusivity is equality of opportunity- not the same thing as integration, which generally means sticking everyone in the same boat and letting them fight it out (since that will always favour the majority, the larger group and those who were given a rule book before things started). For further reading on inclusivity, refer to the Tomlinson report (DfES)- caution- this report is 189 pages.

Yes but there are a lot of people in this country who are white who may need the same help as someone black how can you possibly say no one white needs the same help as someone black!

There are also a lot of immigrants in this country who are white who also may experience the same problems but will not get the same help because they are the wrong colour where is the logic in that!

Yes but there are a lot of people in this country who are white who may need the same help as someone black how can you possibly say no one white needs the same help as someone black!

There are also a lot of immigrants in this country who are white who also may experience the same problems but will not get the same help because they are the wrong colour where is the logic in that!

I said nothing of the sort- I said that I'd like to see true equality of opportunity, and that by definition applies to all people, whatever their skin colour, religion, disability or gender.

Inclusivity regards every person as an individual with individual needs- that's why I used the term specifically.

Yes but there are a lot of people in this country who are white who may need the same help as someone black how can you possibly say no one white needs the same help as someone black!

There are also a lot of immigrants in this country who are white who also may experience the same problems but will not get the same help because they are the wrong colour where is the logic in that!
yes there is people of all nationalities / colours that need help for all sorts of reasons.
takes polish immigrents......you saying they shouldnt have theyre own shops, selling their own foodstuffs, you saying they shouldnt have their own translaters and ways to communicate back home in a crisis? you saying they should JUST use the same help as white english people and not be offered extra help / different help
its about identifying needs
somebody whos black may also need a translator which a normal citizens advice may not be able to do, shouldnt they have somewhere they can turn to quickly in a crisis?

Atlast there is some common sense posted, however the the original thread in why there needs to be Black Card available in the community. The answer is quite simple. Some people in the ethnic minorities feel they have been discriminated against and have problems. Anyone who says there is no racism in the Sheffield community needs to start asking questions to there fellow friends of colour and you will get your answer.
On the grounds of access courses, I feel it should not just be black people allowed to do this but also white people from poorer backgrounds to give them a chance in education. I knew this debate would turn sour. What people on this forum have not been able to answer is; if anyone had a racial discrimination problem, how can a c.a.b. or white organisation solve it, IF they are not qualified to do deal with this. R.E.C and Black Card specialise in this field.

The Access courses are open to everyone. It's just that they run one especially and exclusively for black people. And in my experience this annoys both black and white students. Quite a few black students didn't want a course just for black people. Like most human beings they wanted to be included and just do an Access course.

And as for the racial problems being solved by c.a.b well why not? Within the Citizen's Advice Bureau should be advisors who represent the community. That way everyone sorts out their problems at the same place but there are advisors on hand to deal with problems specific to race such as translating.
Of course everyone should have somewhere to turn in a time of crisis and no one here is suggesting they shouldn't. It's just a shame people from the ethnic minorities seem to 'need' a place separate to the rest of the community.

I don't think anyone here is trying to be inflamatory but there is definately the problem of not being able to make a point about ethnic minorities without certain bodies shouting 'RACIST'. It's very trying.

As the majority, ie white, British people


Not in the Wicker!

Not in the Wicker!

and thats a helpful, enlightened comment?

Not in the Wicker!


And not just the wicker.

And not just the wicker.

do we really need this thread to point out the black . asian ghettos?

actually thats not true - it is classed as racism./sexism etc - a woman can request to have a female nurse present during examinations.

A patient cannot rquest a white doctor just because they don't want a black/asian one and rightly so as this is racism

I work as a mortgage adviser over the phones in a call centre. I once had a muslim male customer demand to speak to a male advisor as he didn't want to discuss his finances with a woman.

This was sexism and the company I work for refused his request as it would be seen as supporting sexism as an employer.

How did you know he was muslim & what relevance does it have?

do we really need this thread to point out the black . asian ghettos?

Ghettos.....really. Stop being melodramatic.

Ghettos.....really. Stop being melodramatic.
so the likes of pitsmoor and darnall arent ghettos?
they arent where all the immigrents have always been shoved?
they arent all left to get on to their own devices?
places that people shun?

It's racist by definition, an organisation that selects it's clientelle by race is being racist.

and thats a helpful, enlightened comment?


HAHAHA i dint think these few sentences would hit a nerve but they obviously did as nugent actually bothered to come into the chatt o slag me off :D

How did you know he was muslim & what relevance does it have?

he told me that he was muslim and thats why he didn't want to speak to a woman - so I think it has a lot of relevance.

This hasn't just happened once - many of my colleagues get this quite often, not just from ethnic minorities though.

Whatever next? It's mad I tell you! they will be having special spoons for the disabled before long, just you mark my words!

http://www.disabledhands.com/2006/02/help_with_hot_l.html

he told me that he was muslim and thats why he didn't want to speak to a woman - so I think it has a lot of relevance.

This hasn't just happened once - many of my colleagues get this quite often, not just from ethnic minorities though.

Why would someone tell you their religion when enquiring about a mortgage & since when has not speaking to women about mortgages been part of the Islamic faith?

Yes but there are a lot of people in this country who are white who may need the same help as someone black how can you possibly say no one white needs the same help as someone black!

There are also a lot of immigrants in this country who are white who also may experience the same problems but will not get the same help because they are the wrong colour where is the logic in that!

No one is saying that white people don't need help, but as the majority group, white BRITISH people don't need the same type of help.

BME, as has been explained before, means Black and Minority Ethnic, it doesn't only mean people of African origin or with black skin. The more recent European immigrants coming to the UK, such as Poles, Slovaks, Albanians etc are classed as BME even though they are usually white because they are an Ethnic Minority. I hope this explanation is helpful?

Why would someone tell you their religion when enquiring about a mortgage & since when has not speaking to women about mortgages been part of the Islamic faith?


my thoughts exactly - but in my job you come across some weird and wonderful people -

the guy in question didn't speak fantastic english he said "I'm muslim, I speak to man only, not woman! My finances are private."

anyway this is going slightly off topic - if you want more information about this you can pm me..... :D

my thoughts exactly - but in my job you come across some weird and wonderful people -

the guy in question didn't speak fantastic english he said "I'm muslim, I speak to man only, not woman! My finances are private."

anyway this is going slightly off topic - if you want more information about this you can pm me..... :D

Did he mention Black Card on the Wicker as well?
You can come across some weird & wonderful people on this forum as well!;)

so the likes of pitsmoor and darnall arent ghettos?
they arent where all the immigrents have always been shoved?
they arent all left to get on to their own devices?
places that people shun?

I object to you calling Pitsmoor a ghetto.!!!!!!

I'm from Pitsmoor...wasn't a ghetto when i lived there throught he 60's 70's and 80's.!!

Actually ,most of the people from pitsmoor where decent hard working folk..black and white..

jt

I object to you calling Pitsmoor a ghetto.!!!!!!

I'm from Pitsmoor...wasn't a ghetto when i lived there throught he 60's 70's and 80's.!!

Actually ,most of the people from pitsmoor where decent hard working folk..black and white..

jt

i lived in 3 places in pitsmoor too for years
since whens a ghetto mean not hard working

a ghetto is somewhere where a similer type of people get placed and to all intents and purposes get left, neglected

black,white,yellow,red
who cares
its only a colour

black,white,yellow,red
who cares
its only a colour

Absolutely - I'm toying with the idea of a gold card for ginger sheffielders to get discounts on their hair cuts.

Although nearly everybody in the world now believes in the free market approach to running economies it would be wrong to think that Marxists have completely disappeared from our political system. The favoured way for present-day neo-Marxists to ply their pernicious wares is to encourage ethnic minorities and women to think of themselves as victims. Dedicated organisations are then needed to help them overcome their 'victim' status. As others have commented, however, such an approach exacerbates rather than reduces tensions.

my mum was told she could not enrol on a job finding course because she was not from burngreave, which i find is discriminating enough seeing as though we only live 2 minutes away. By the way, my mum used to work in London and applied for a job but was told she was not suitable because she was white. This was many years ago. She recently applied for a job at macdonalds hotel in town, she was refused the job because they told her that she didn't have enough experience. A mother of 3 married to an army corporal who was cleaner than anyone i know should have more experience than young slow non speaking english girls who currently work there. At bramall lane, they also have non speaking english staff who cannot read signs. I suppose minimum wage is responsible for english people being refused jobs eh?

I suppose minimum wage is responsible for english people being refused jobs eh?

That's an interesting statement, what does it mean?

i lived in 3 places in pitsmoor too for years
since whens a ghetto mean not hard working

a ghetto is somewhere where a similer type of people get placed and to all intents and purposes get left, neglected

Not bad, if we use the last part of your definition of a ghetto as a yardstick their would be hardly any places left the were not a ghetto.

I just find it funny that I have skin conditions that flare up when i am round unclean surfaces. Trams are a bugger for it. My mum keeps our house spotless but the trade in cheap workers has stopped my mum returning back to work. She said the girls she saw were slow and uninterested in their work but i am sure they would be getting paid a lot less than my mum! I have black and asian friends and they are fine and capable of work. I dj in a lot of places including a west indian centre (which is one of my favs) and the people there had the best manners ever (even though chapeltown leeds is supposed to be GHETTO) but i see a lot of cleaning/hotel jobs going to non english speaking workers and i know for a fact that their wages are a lot lower than ours, thats why the hotels, kitchens etc are employing them. They need to work and are sending all the money home to their families, how is this helping the economy? My mum worked all her life, had to give up her home because i got robbed at knifepoint and has not worked since because she is over 55 and british. I am sorry i feel this way but white english people are even exempt from some jobs in the police/schools. My friend who works at a school said there was a job ideal for me but was only open to ethnic minorities. Is this discrimination against white english people when i cannot apply. I think all jobs should be available to all people who are capable without having to fit statistics. I dont mind that we are offering opportunities to ethnic minorities, i am just sick of our own country doing us out of everything when my dad and brother fought in the army for this country. My mate has always worked and now is pregnant and wont get offered a house till her baby is born, if an asian person applies for a council house, they get it straight away. FACT. This country is making people have negative attitudes to ethnic minorities because the government is showing favouratism towards them. I have always worked and the best i get offered is a ground floor council flat where i got burgled and robbed at knifepoint. So if i am a bit bitter, i am sure you understand.

I always thought the term Ghetto was originally used in the war as a section of a city where the Nazis forced all Jews to go & then it was fenced off with walls, electric wire and armed guards which preventing people from entering or leaving.
Even though Pitsmoor & Darnall do have their problems i wouldn't say the term ghetto applies to these districts.

he told me that he was muslim and thats why he didn't want to speak to a woman - so I think it has a lot of relevance.

This hasn't just happened once - many of my colleagues get this quite often, not just from ethnic minorities though.

If it were against his religion as he thought next time some muslim rings up about his mortgage and refuses to speak to you just remind the customer that usury is goes against the teaching of islam aswell. :)

I told a dj friend of mine that i was playing in chapeltown in leeds, that friend is black/mixed race and he described it as ghetto. One of my black friends also refers to himself as ghetto. The bible says jesus was white but in that part of the world he should be black. Lets just say that the use of the english language has changed somewhat and ghetto is a term that is used for an area that is rough! My mum is from stratford in london, my black friend said that it is ghetto ends! It was, thats why my mum moved us to yorkshire!

Commenting about the woman not being good enough to take the call of a muslim man, is that not sexist? We are in Britain! The multicultural society where we are supposed to intergrate. When anyone i know gets a telesales call from anyone asian that they cannot understand, i know people who refuse to take calls from anyone in india. Probably because all the jobs that have been lost here are transferred to india coz its cheaper to employ people in india and the rates are cheaper. Businesses have helped to create angry responses as well because the british people have embraced culture and are getting totally used in the process. We create business in britain, get all the customers then transfer the jobs to india and most people refuse to take a call from someone in india now anyway.

I give up. We cant change the world for the better.

My mate has always worked and now is pregnant and wont get offered a house till her baby is born, if an asian person applies for a council house, they get it straight away. FACT. I can see you're angry about the housing situation, but I'd love to know where there are any facts about getting a council house just cos a person is Asian? Could you tell me where that happened? I also find it interesting that people think just cos someone is having a baby they should automatically get a property from the council. Council houses are not a right, and the numbers have reduced drastically, partly due to tenants exercising their Right to Buy. Most council properties nowadays go to people who are in house and flats that are going to be demolished, or they are homeless, or have some other priority, as laid down by the government.

This country is making people have negative attitudes to ethnic minorities because the government is showing favouratism towards them. I have always worked and the best i get offered is a ground floor council flat where i got burgled and robbed at knifepoint. I'm sorry you got burgled, it must have been a horrible experience. Why did you accept a ground floor flat instead of finding your own accommodation privately until something you wanted came up? .

People have negative attitudes to ethnic minorities for all sorts of reasons. They also have negative attitudes to gay people, single mums, council tenants, left wing do gooders, you name it, someone will have a negative attitude.

i know someone who worked at the council who said you cant get a council house unless as you correctly stated you are under a demolition order, a drug user, just got out of jail (a re-offender i knew got a 3 bed house!) and asian person is guarenteed to get one too.

I was beat up by my boyfriend and had to move out of the council house i had to apply with him to get. In return, the council put me in a 1 bed ground floor flat and i had to take it becuase if i refused, i would not be offered anything else and my friend had put me up for 3 weeks already.

I was fine until i had smack heads trying to get through my window and i had to sleep with a wooden bat and when i went out, they robbed me, several times.

It is a long story and there is more to it but i must add i do have asian friends but i think that their culture stops them intergrating into society. I feel sorry for the ladies, i know one who wanted to marry an english bloke and her family totally disowned her. Is that racist. I would rather shack up with another race than my own cousin (as asian familys encourage their families to do) It promotes inbreeding. I have never been robbed/burgled by an asian bloke but an asian was responsible for turning a nice area into a crap one by selling heroine to people. He turned a tax office worker into a bag snatching smackhead. Recently on a housing estate in sheffield, a group of white english lads were set upon by a large group of asian lads shouting "this is the asian invasion!" My brother converted to being a muslim before he died and they tried to send him to dewsbury to these training camps that promote terrorism. He never went thank god. I could go on .......

my dad served 13 years in the army, we then returned to england (we are all british, have british family and were all born in this country) he was told that he was entitled to £4 to support a family with 3 children. Meanwhile, behind my mum was "mr Patel" that was his name because my mum said that the attendant shouted him "mr patel, we have the money for your new child". My dad has never in his life claimed any benefits, he didn't even cash the cheque. He managed to get a job and luckily, beans on toast did until he got his first wage. You can see why i have greivences when my mum was refused a job years ago in london because she was white. She recently went on a course as part of this job centre trying to get older people back into work, and was send to a red light area as part of her training. This was very recently as well. My dad even said that if he was a different religion coming into this country, he would get tret better than we have done. I never joined the army and am glad i didn't. What has this country done for the people who fought for it. Nothing!

So if you wonder where i get my information from, i work at a solicitors, my mate works at a school and mine and my friends experiences have provided me with enough ammo to show up the government if they would let me.

I will leave you with a thought that is totally irrellevent, the u.s. government lied to everyone saying that they landed on the moon. It never happened, radiation belt wont allow us to get to the moon ever, computers were far too big and heavy to ever get us up there and why is it still in the record books as being an event. IT NEVER HAPPENED.

I think everyone is really thick to believe this or anything we are being told by the government and tabloids.

I am sane knowing i am not that gullible. I have had too many shocks that have made me wise and i know everything that is going on will get worse!

Does anyone agree that a company such as black card that has been set up to help "Black" People is racist? I find it disgusting that they can get away with it as if I was to open up a shop next to it called "White CARD" I would be arrested within 24 hours...

I am shocked that connexions and other funding sources are paying to keep this people open...

By bringing this up, I am not being racist myself, or do not mean to be... I just disagree with a company that supports only 1 enthic group and if the tables were turned that would be classed as rascist!!!

It's not racist, but it's not terribly PC IMO.. I do see your point though, according to the PC Brigade the blacks can say what they want about whites, but as soon as we say anything back we're branded racist...

Mad innit? :rolleyes:

I personally have not got a problem with any organization that is wanting to help disadvantaged people, I suppose different groups of people have different needs & Black card is one of those organizations.

I personally have not got a problem with any organization that is wanting to help disadvantaged people, I suppose different groups of people have different needs & Black card is one of those organizations.


Are Black People disadvantaged? I thought we were all equil in this country

apparently not

i know someone who worked at the council who said you cant get a council house unless as you correctly stated you are under a demolition order, a drug user, just got out of jail (a re-offender i knew got a 3 bed house!) and asian person is guarenteed to get one too.



This person lied to you. There is no truth in the suggestion that a person is guaranteed to get a council house if they are Asian.

Are Black People disadvantaged? I thought we were all equil in this country


I was thinking exactly the same. Seems a bit patronising to say the least, by suggesting that an ethnic group is "disadvantaged."

If somebody described me as "disadvantaged" due to the colour of my skin I would take offence.

This person lied to you. There is no truth in the suggestion that a person is guaranteed to get a council house if they are Asian.

I think there are plenty of Asian people on the housing register who would back you up TeaFan, but there are always people who prefer to believe 'someone who works for the council'! Council tenants and independent people act as directors on various boards set up by Sheffield Homes. Its called governance, and ensures that decisions are made and policies are applied fairly. Council houses are not allocated to people on the basis of their nationality, religion, skin colour etc.

I've been having a look at the Black Card website, particularly the bit about Burngreave and the New Deal area. The assistance and courses appear to be available to everyone who lives within a defined area regardless of their ethnicity. New Deal areas are set where there is a high level of deprivation, and are about regeneration, increased employment and improving educational standards and health. http://learning.burngreave.net/MeetTheTeam.htm http://learning.burngreave.net/BurngreaveCelebratesLearning.html Have a look at the pictures? Doesn't seem to be much evidence of racism or exclusion.

every body in this country is treated equally....


Unfortunatly..some peopel are treated more equally than others.!

jt

Are Black People disadvantaged? I thought we were all equil in this country

you been reading my posts in this thread?
as meds said we should have full equality, every race should be treated equal
sadly theres racism in every part of life for certain members of society STILL in the 21st centuary, 50s/60s/70 etc its not changed, open your eyes

even down to the racism and ingnorance on this forum.............thats disadvantaging em

Of course its not racist! It doesn't support just one minority group, it supports all ethnic minority groups. The clue is in the word 'minority'. As the majority, ie white, British people, we haven't faced discrimination from the majority, white, British employers - have we? People from minority groups have been discriminated against, so organisations like Black Card exist to help them get an equal chance in education, employment etc.

Trubster, I've just read your second post - think about the reasons why organisations like this are needed?

i'm glad to hear it because very soon the indigenous anglo-saxon population will be one of the minority groups you mention, but some how i don't see them helping us .
fortunately i have not been out of work for many years now but when i was looking for work i could never understand why prospective employers felt the need to ask what my ethnic background was,as if this in some way had a bearing on weather i got the job or not. or even if i could do the job.
like wise when you fill in certain forms nationality is required a list of options is shown,afro-carribean,irish,pakistani etc are all list then comes british, sorry but i'm not british i'm english, nor am i racist have'nt been brought up that way.

it's just that i get really p*<<ed off by all this politically correct claptrap where anything or any one that presumes to be proud of being english must be a died in the wool facist. we are english for christsake so why should we not be allowed to say so.

If somebody described me as "disadvantaged" due to the colour of my skin I would take offence.

its a fact of life honey, whether you took offence or not :)

it's just that i get really p*<<ed off by all this politically correct claptrap where anything or any one that presumes to be proud of being english must be a died in the wool facist. we are english for christsake so why should we not be allowed to say so.

im english and proud of it too





although i am sad about our past and the way we used and abused other peoples

I've been having a look at the Black Card website, particularly the bit about Burngreave and the New Deal area. The assistance and courses appear to be available to everyone who lives within a defined area regardless of their ethnicity. New Deal areas are set where there is a high level of deprivation, and are about regeneration, increased employment and improving educational standards and health. http://learning.burngreave.net/MeetTheTeam.htm http://learning.burngreave.net/BurngreaveCelebratesLearning.html Have a look at the pictures? Doesn't seem to be much evidence of racism or exclusion.
sorry but i live in the area you mention, the new deal looks great on paper,just don't get too disappointed if your not from an ethnic minority group,up here the non ethnic comunity are the ones that really need a " black card" type organisation.

For example, a quick search on google brought up these results for "Black People"



I could keep going with the other 1,330,000 results, but I dont see the point, its organisations like the above (Special Healthcare etc...) that I disagree with too!

this doesn't mean that these people are getting better healthcare than white people....... it simply means they may be better trained to help overcome any possible language / cultural barriers.....both for the patient and the professional.

clare :wave: x

For reference, if you check out the census you will find that there are still more white people in s3/s4.

the pitsmoor/burngreave area local council office had to employ another 5 interprutters as currently in these areas there are 37 different languges and dialects being spoken. just because a person is white doe's not nessacerily follow he or she is british. after all we now have albanians,cosovans,croats,bulgarians, we've even got a few students as well
so as you can see its a proper league of nations and all minority group's too to boot

im english and proud of it too





although i am sad about our past and the way we used and abused other peoples

yes me too, but you can't visage the sins of the father on the son as seems to be happening. were'nt our forebears the first to abolish slavery ? but then again they did invent the concentration camp.

suffice to say i'm british by birth but english by the grace of god.

the pitsmoor/burngreave area local council office had to employ another 5 interprutters as currently in these areas there are 37 different languges and dialects being spoken. just because a person is white doe's not nessacerily follow he or she is british. after all we now have albanians,cosovans,croats,bulgarians, we've even got a few students as well
so as you can see its a proper league of nations and all minority group's too to boot

you cant classify the whole city on a couple of ghettos.
it is a black / asian ghetto but you have to ask why
since the 80s? all forigners have been thrown together in 1 or 2 places, as they do the white english move out.
but there has always been a thriving white population in those places too
i was born grew up in darnall / i lived in 3 houses in pitsmoor
both places there was large pockets of whites.

its a fact of life honey, whether you took offence or not :)

I agree, unfortunately it is & there is a danger that people from socially disadvantaged groups including those from black, disabled, ethnic minority communities etc could be left behind unless something can be done about bridging the gap between different socially & economically excluded groups in our society, which is probaly why there is a need for organizations like Black Card & these organizations are for people who live in those areas of deprivation.

sorry but i live in the area you mention, the new deal looks great on paper,just don't get too disappointed if your not from an ethnic minority group,up here the non ethnic comunity are the ones that really need a " black card" type organisation.

100% Spot on, agree totally, No support in this area for the White people at all, all Yamealie (I know i cant spell), Somalian's, Pakistani's and African's get there own support centres but there is nothing to help "White" people is there???

100% Spot on, agree totally, No support in this area for the White people at all, all Yamealie (I know i cant spell), Somalian's, Pakistani's and African's get there own support centres but there is nothing to help "White" people is there???


that is classic white racist jealous half truths

you tell me what help white people in those areas that they dont get that they cant get from the same places that help the immigrents

that is classic white racist jealous half truths

you tell me what help white people in those areas that they dont get that they cant get from the same places that help the immigrents

"Specialist" organisations to provide training, education and help finding jobs... also funding for starting businesses.

I have been told if I can set up a business to teach somali's to use computers I will get paid £3000 per person on my list... (Unconfirmed but belivable)

Finally, I am most certainly not racist, I believe everyone "SHOULD" be equal but obviously, we are not!

that is classic white racist jealous half truths



I don't believe that was a racist comment at all, - get a grip mel!

but thats not the point i am trying to make... i am trying to understand why they will only help "Black" people.... If I had exactly the same company but changed black to white... I would be arrested in minutes... literally...
have you tried? applied for a grant ? asked about starting up? the pc brigade is dying the death it deserves,if the shop was renamed to helping the east enders of sheffield would it fit more snuggly ? unless it says no honkeys,i wouldnt loose sleep over it.happy new year:hihi:

I don't believe that was a racist comment at all, - get a grip mel!

everything i said in that comment was a reflection of trubsters post

it WAS racist
it IS jealousy
it IS based on lies and / or half truths

it is all just racist chinese whispers, somebody tells somebody tells somebody
by the time it gets to the end the blacks and muslims have taken over the world

Mel, just to remind you, this is what Trubster said,

100% Spot on, agree totally, No support in this area for the White people at all, all Yamealie (I know i cant spell), Somalian's, Pakistani's and African's get there own support centres but there is nothing to help "White" people is there???

In response to,


sorry but i live in the area you mention, the new deal looks great on paper,just don't get too disappointed if your not from an ethnic minority group,up here the non ethnic comunity are the ones that really need a " black card" type organisation.

They are stating facts about experiences they know themselves - which means that non ethnic minorities are suffering from racism - not the other way around. see below and it will explain why the black card on the wicker is racist!

The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) defines racism as follows:
“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”

everything i said in that comment was a reflection of trubsters post

it WAS racist
it IS jealousy
it IS based on lies and / or half truths

it is all just racist chinese whispers, somebody tells somebody tells somebody
by the time it gets to the end the blacks and muslims have taken over the world

100% False, it is not racist, I am not jealous and it definatly is not based on lies, BLACK CARD will not help WHITE PEOPLE!!! so THEY are RACIST*!!!

*This is my personal opinion and should not be taken as gospel!

Mel, just to remind you, this is what Trubster said,



In response to,



They are stating facts about experiences they know themselves - which means that non ethnic minorities are suffering from racism - not the other way around. see below and it will explain why the black card on the wicker is racist!

The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) defines racism as follows:
“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”

Thanks, Happy new year all

Mel, just to remind you, this is what Trubster said,



In response to,



They are stating facts about experiences they know themselves - which means that non ethnic minorities are suffering from racism - not the other way around. see below and it will explain why the black card on the wicker is racist!

The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) defines racism as follows:
“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”


errrrrrrm as ive stated before ive spent a number of years living in pitsmoor and darnall i think i have experienced being a none ethnic minority in those places myself tbh

and whites WILL NEVER have the same disadvantages as immigrents in this country

errrrrrrm as ive stated before ive spent a number of years living in pitsmoor and darnall i think i have experienced being a none ethnic minority in those places myself tbh

and whites WILL NEVER have the same disadvantages as immigrents in this country


my point was to explain to you the definition of racism as you seem to have trouble understanding what comments people make are or are not racist ones.

Please re-read the post.

my point was to explain to you the definition of racism as you seem to have trouble understanding what comments people make are or are not racist ones.

Please re-read the post.
i know what racist is, ive spent 20 years fighting against racism in sheffield and the country at large, and if you wanna go back through the posts in this thread youll find out i believe that people have said why that black card isnt racist, but people seem to ignore those bits as they have a vested interest in the reverse racism ideology

as in macbeths post

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1811452&postcount=167

I'll explain again,

The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) defines racism as follows:
“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”

this means if you are doing something purely to benefit someone due to their race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin and excluding others due to their race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin
then you are commiting an act of racism.

The black card on the wicker helps people from ethinic minorities who are usually black, asian, pakistani, african etc. and exclude helping people from non ethnic minorities such as the british white - hence they are commiting racism by definition.

Irrespective of what you've said about ethnic minorities being disadvantaged(have you given any evidence of this?) in this country and the need for this kind of scheme - this is irrelevant - the question is "is what they're doing, racist" that answer is "yes" from my life experience I've not seen or witnessed anyone I know being disadvantaged due to their race.

Based on definition though what the black card is doing on the wicker is racist.

end of thread (lol:hihi: )

I'll explain again,

The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination) defines racism as follows:
“Any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment, or exercise, on equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural, or any other field of public life.”

this means if you are doing something purely to benefit someone due to their race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin and excluding others due to their race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin
then you are commiting an act of racism.

The black card on the wicker helps people from ethinic minorities who are usually black, asian, pakistani, african etc. and exclude helping people from non ethnic minorities such as the british white - hence they are commiting racism by definition.

Irrespective of what you've said about ethnic minorities being disadvantaged(have you given any evidence of this?) in this country and the need for this kind of scheme - this is irrelevant - the question is "is what they're doing, racist" that answer is "yes" from my life experience I've not seen or witnessed anyone I know being disadvantaged due to their race.

Based on definition though what the black card is doing on the wicker is racist.

end of thread (lol:hihi: )


*sighs*
but as macbeths post states they ARENT excluding anybody
those groups are there for the whole community, which happens to mostly be black and asian.
indeed the pictures on there feature quite a few white people. indeed even a mate of mine (whos white) was employed to take the pictures

*sighs*
but as macbeths post states they ARENT excluding anybody
those groups are there for the whole community, which happens to mostly be black and asian.
indeed the pictures on there feature quite a few white people. indeed even a mate of mine (whos white) was employed to take the pictures

*sighs*

from their website - macbeth was wrong -

"Black CARD is an agency for regeneration and development for black and ethnic minority communities. We are committed to seeing community groups strengthened, bolstered and as a result made more effective in their roles as servants of the community. Interested in regeneration, nurture, growth and renewal, we assist via funding and advice, with economic development and capacity building of small Black and Ethnic Minority organisations.

OUR MISSION STATEMENT:


Ensuring that Members of Sheffield and the Region's Black and Minority Ethnic Communities are able to fully contribute to the regeneration of the Region and are included in the mainstream developed outcomes of regeneration initiatives"

check it out for yourself here -http://www.blackcard.org.uk/default.htm

they also provide funding for ethnic minorities and support and training for jobs!

what if I need funding, support and training for jobs? I'm white, they wouldn't help me becuase of my ethnic origin, therefore by definition, its racism.

they also provide funding for ethnic minorities and support and training for jobs!

what if I need funding, support and training for jobs? I'm white, they wouldn't help me becuase of my ethnic origin, therefore by definition, its racism.

If you live in Burngreave you'd qualify regardless of race if you met the other criteria about being out of work. If you think there is a desperate need that isn't being met, then you could be the person to start a support organisation that includes everyone! Most of the organisations that exist to help minority groups started as voluntary organisations, responding to various needs. As a British person you are unlikely to need help to learn the language you've spoken from birth, but someone coming here from abroad who can't speak English will need help. I'd have thought that was a pretty obvious example.

I don't think I can say any more on this subject, at least not tonight. So heres to a Happy and Peaceful New Year to all

Imagined racist comments......

There's only one thing more annoying than those who imagine racist slights and that's those who imagine them on someone else's behalf.

that is classic white racist jealous half truths

What do you mean by classic, is that a sweeping generalisation about white people A.K.A stereotyping

The Black Card is racist there is no doubt about that.

Why?

Well think about it people, the word Black Card.....ie Black, its clearly racist, Card, as in poker, gambling. This shop is implying that all black people gamble.

I feel this is a racist statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trubster
100% Spot on, agree totally, No support in this area for the White people at all, all Yamealie (I know i cant spell), Somalian's, Pakistani's and African's get there own support centres but there is nothing to help "White" people is there???



that is classic white racist jealous half truths

you tell me what help white people in those areas that they dont get that they cant get from the same places that help the immigrents
__________________

Surely someone who lives in Sheffield has better first hand experience of the problems encountered in the City than someone who lives near Whitby. I find it difficult to understand why you decry everyone who has encountered this injustice when they are white, yet seem to support everything that relates to ethnic minorities. Do you have something against white/english people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trubster
100% Spot on, agree totally, No support in this area for the White people at all, all Yamealie (I know i cant spell), Somalian's, Pakistani's and African's get there own support centres but there is nothing to help "White" people is there???



that is classic white racist jealous half truths

you tell me what help white people in those areas that they dont get that they cant get from the same places that help the immigrents
__________________

Surely someone who lives in Sheffield has better first hand experience of the problems encountered in the City than someone who lives near Whitby. I find it difficult to understand why you decry everyone who has encountered this injustice when they are white, yet seem to support everything that relates to ethnic minorities. Do you have something against white/english people?

1: i was born in darnall, sheffield, i lived in 3 houses in pitsmoor as well as nether edge and city road.
2: i have something against the current vogue by white english people to slag immigrents / general ethnic communities off in the current climate, i dont support everything to do with ethnic minorities if theres something really bad not problems made up to make out white people are being disadvantaged in someway

What do you mean by classic, is that a sweeping generalisation about white people A.K.A stereotyping

classic in the form of what racists/ignorant people have always said since the 50s etc

they come over here steal our jobs
steal our wimmin

2: i have something against the current vogue by white english people to slag immigrents / general ethnic communities off in the current climate, i dont support everything to do with ethnic minorities if theres something really bad not problems made up to make out white people are being disadvantaged in someway

no one here was slagging off immigrents / general ethinic communities.

I think you have misinterpreted people's posts.

The discussion is about whether singling out a specific rgroup of people purely because of their race is racist or not - (which it is as I've explained by definition)

classic in the form of what racists/ignorant people have always said since the 50s etc

they come over here steal our jobs
steal our wimmin


please quote who said this....

1: i was born in darnall, sheffield, i lived in 3 houses in pitsmoor as well as nether edge and city road.
2: i have something against the current vogue by white english people to slag immigrents / general ethnic communities off in the current climate, i dont support everything to do with ethnic minorities if theres something really bad not problems made up to make out white people are being disadvantaged in someway

I don't think the majority of posters are 'slagging immigrants off' but objecting to the fact that you can have an organisation specifically for them which seemingly excludes white/english people. Personally I do feel that this causes further division rather than aiding an integrated society.

I don't think the majority of posters are 'slagging immigrants off' but objecting to the fact that you can have an organisation specifically for them which seemingly excludes white/english people. Personally I do feel that this causes further division rather than aiding an integrated society.

spot on!

If you read their mission statement which I posted earlier, they are clearly excluding non ethnic minorities. - which is racism according to The ICERD (International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination)

tbh im fed up of arguing on this thread now, nobody takes on board anything anybody says (including me) so im bowing out now

happy new year






maybe those poor whites will get the help they so desperately need in this black and asian country :D

tbh im fed up of arguing on this thread now, nobody takes on board anything anybody says (including me) so im bowing out now

happy new year






maybe those poor whites will get the help they so desperately need in this black and asian country :D

GRRR! you're still misinterpreting what's being said. But Happy New Year anyway :)

GRRR! you're still misinterpreting what's being said. But Happy New Year anyway :)

melthebel IS misinterpreting whats being said.

The thing is it's currently fashionable to stand up for ethnic minorities.
There are plenty of groups who still get the p*ss taken out of them and no one bangs on about it. Fat people for instance, fat women in particular, they are the butt of jokes and they don't have support groups etc Ditto for disabled people, 'chavs' etc

NOBODY should be discriminated against, whether it be for the colour of their skin, their religion or their dress size but still it goes on.

I agree Trubster, everyone should be treated in an equal manner, but the sad fact is that they are not. If they were, there would be no need for organisations like Black Card, or the Commission for Racial Equality. This link from a speech by Meg Munn MP to the Commission for Racial Equality (CRE) Conference in London on 6 July 2006 is pretty clear about deprivation and disadvantage. http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1501392

This paragraph is quite clear: [QUOTE]We also know that ethnic minority communities are disproportionately represented in deprived areas. Over two-thirds of England’s ethnic minority population live in the 88 most deprived local authority areas, compared to two-fifths of the total population

We have a policy in this city and it's called "Closing the Gap". On one side of the city we have the wealthiest suburb in Britain on the other, poverty and deprivation. How can we justify this ? What we have done is pull in Government money to raise the level of aspiration, education and housing to an acceptable level, to close the gap between the rich and poor in Sheffield. What Medusa described as inclusivity.

What would you rather have ? A divided city with all the problems that could bring or one where people live in harmony and hope, where we all start from a level playing field, which we sure don't have at the moment?

That's why we need Black Card and organisations like them, to enable deprived people and those who have low aspirations to achieve the same standard of living as the others they can only envy at the moment.

That's why we need Black Card and organisations like them, to enable deprived people and those who have low aspirations to achieve the same standard of living as the others they can only envy at the moment.

What about White people who are deprived (FInancially or otherwise)... The point I am trying to get across is, there is NO SUPPORT available to "WHITE" people and if there was a company JUST for White people, that would be racist by default...

Tell me I'm Wrong... if a company would only help white people, then that by definition is 100% racist, so why is BLACK CARD getting away with it????

What about White people who are deprived (FInancially or otherwise)... The point I am trying to get across is, there is NO SUPPORT available to "WHITE" people and if there was a company JUST for White people, that would be racist by default...

Tell me I'm Wrong... if a company would only help white people, then that by definition is 100% racist, so why is BLACK CARD getting away with it????

They are not 'getting away with' anything.

White people can get support dependent on where they live - as posted previously, the New Deal for Communities (NDC) is there for everyone in certain areas of the UK regardless of whether you're white, black or whatever. It applies in Burngreave.

And of course there are white people who are deprived, just like there are black people who are affluent. The proportions are what make the difference. Read the last link I posted - far more people from ethnic minority backgrounds are living in disadvantaged areas so their need for specific help must be greater.

Why is this beyond comprehension?

I'm with you Macbeth on this one.

If someone is non white and they are living in poverty then they must recieved help.

If someone is white and is living in poverty, they shouldn't get as much help.

This is what is helping to make our society equil, and not creating hostilitys between the races/cultures.

I have to say, some of the people who come to this country refuse to learn the language, which would make its quite hard to get a job. This is perhaps another reason why people from other races are more likely to end up in poverty.

And while we are on the subject, does anyone find the word 'Black Taxi' Offensive cos I do and..............

I think the intention of Black Card is essentially good so you cannot call it a racist organisation. I think the name and the language used to describe what they do may lead some people like Trubster to get the wrong impression. If they were to describe themselves as an organisation that helps people gain employment that have come up against discrimination - and did not mention colour or ethnicity then you wouldn't have a problem.

By Trubsters reasoning does that mean the RNIB discriminates againts people with disabilities that don't relate to vision?

By dealing with a precise group of people I think it is easier to address the needs specifically and more successfully.

The problem with setting up a 'White Card' is that it isn't necessary.

You can't please all the people all the time.

I think the intention of Black Card is essentially good so you cannot call it a racist organisation. I think the name and the language used to describe what they do may lead some people like Trubster to get the wrong impression. If they were to describe themselves as an organisation that helps people gain employment that have come up against discrimination - and did not mention colour or ethnicity then you wouldn't have a problem.

By Trubsters reasoning does that mean the RNIB discriminates againts people with disabilities that don't relate to vision?

By dealing with a precise group of people I think it is easier to address the needs specifically and more successfully.

The problem with setting up a 'White Card' is that it isn't necessary.

You can't please all the people all the time.

so you compare being an ethnic minority to being disabled - like say blind?????

there is no comparision!

Plus the governments own definition of racism states that excluding a group of people purely based on ethnic origin is racism.

Whites are excluded due to being white, therefore it is racist.

They are not 'getting away with' anything.

White people can get support dependent on where they live - as posted previously, the New Deal for Communities (NDC) is there for everyone in certain areas of the UK regardless of whether you're white, black or whatever. It applies in Burngreave.

And of course there are white people who are deprived, just like there are black people who are affluent. The proportions are what make the difference. Read the last link I posted - far more people from ethnic minority backgrounds are living in disadvantaged areas so their need for specific help must be greater.

Why is this beyond comprehension?


And why is beyond comprehension that the point generally being made here is that there shouldn't be a race/ethnic based groups. Neither black nor white.
Yes deprived people should be helped in any way possible. REGARDLESS OF THEIR COLOUR.
Remove the colour tag. Different groups do have different needs, we hear you, but let's all get our problems sorted out TOGETHER. At CAB's have the necessary advisors there to deal with the clients who come through the doors.
If a CAB is in an area where there are more ethnic minorities then let their advisors reflect that.
Let's stop all the bl**dy division and sort out problems TOGETHER as a society should.

Sorry, Bagger, you just can't do that. There are specific needs out there that need to be addressed. And the CAB's you champion are doing just that. Here's the list of services offered by Sharrow CAB. The Advice Centres' network has a responsible approach to deprivation amongst minorities too you know :

"Sharrow CAB
Service Offered

Advice and information on a range of issues, including housing rights, welfare rights, money and debt, consumer and employment rights. Welfare rights advice for the Chinese community Monday and Tuesday 1pm-4pm, at the Chinese Community Centre, 157-159 London Road. Vietnamese outreach on Wednesdays at the Chinese Community Centre. Roshni Asian Women's Resource Centre 11am - 1pm on Fridays.
Target Group

General public. Sessions for Asian women and the Chinese community.
Languages

Bengali, Chinese, Punjabi, Somali, Urdu and Vietnamese."

.

By Trubsters reasoning does that mean the RNIB discriminates againts people with disabilities that don't relate to vision?



The RNIB is for ALL ethnicities and therefore isn't discriminating against anyone. Saying it discriminates against people with other disabilities isn't really the same argument.

If an asian person applies for a council house, they get it straight away. FACT. This country is making people have negative attitudes to ethnic minorities because the government is showing favouratism towards them. I have always worked and the best i get offered is a ground floor council flat where i got burgled and robbed at knifepoint. So if i am a bit bitter, i am sure you understand.

My sister works in a Housing office and she has seen what whites, blacks asians and others do to get housing quickly. She has gotten wise to the tricks that they try and tries to make it fair across the board that good housing is shared equally.
Unfortunately she says that she once found out that fellow asian employees were tipping off asian applicants for housing to get in early and were offering them bigger houses that came available. After an investigation, certain members of staff were either let go, or moved on swiftly due to the bad feeling it was creating. Sad but true....that some people in positions to help all, narrow it to a few and spoil it for the rest but thats the nature of some people who eventually spoil it for others.

My sister works in a Housing office and she has seen what whites, blacks asians and others do to get housing quickly. She has gotten wise to the tricks that they try and tries to make it fair across the board that good housing is shared equally.
Unfortunately she says that she once found out that fellow asian employees were tipping off asian applicants for housing to get in early and were offering them bigger houses that came available. After an investigation, certain members of staff were either let go, or moved on swiftly due to the bad feeling it was creating. Sad but true....that some people in positions to help all, narrow it to a few and spoil it for the rest but thats the nature of some people who eventually spoil it for others.

Its good to know the company took action against people abusing their positions, the kind of back door selection your sister has witnessed should never be allowed to happen. Of course, with the bidding system in Sheffield this wouldn't apply as anyone can bid for properties. The decision who gets the house is based on laid down criteria, and isn't down to just one person, but a panel to ensure its done fairly.

I've worked in a council one stop shop - where all the management and staff were totally committed to giving customers equality of service. This however didn't meant the customers saw it this way! I've been accused by people from ethnic minorities of treating them differently to how I'd treat a white person, and witnessed my black/asian colleagues accused by white people in exactly the same way! It was completely false - but its often about perception, and about people not understanding how systems work. Sorry if I've gone off thread a bit.

Its good to know the company took action against people abusing their positions, the kind of back door selection your sister has witnessed should never be allowed to happen. Of course, with the bidding system in Sheffield this wouldn't apply as anyone can bid for properties. The decision who gets the house is based on laid down criteria, and isn't down to just one person, but a panel to ensure its done fairly.

I've worked in a council one stop shop - where all the management and staff were totally committed to giving customers equality of service. This however didn't meant the customers saw it this way! I've been accused by people from ethnic minorities of treating them differently to how I'd treat a white person, and witnessed my black/asian colleagues accused by white people in exactly the same way! It was completely false - but its often about perception, and about people not understanding how systems work. Sorry if I've gone off thread a bit.

Which goes to show there are bad apples where ever you go.
You get ethnic minorities who play the race card to get what they want and then you get white people being racist. Unfortunately it seems to be life.

And I still don't think that those from ethnic minorities need seperate advice bureaus. Start creating divisions and some will feel alienated. We should be working to make sure NO ONE feels alienated, be they white or black or any other ethnic minority.

Which goes to show there are bad apples where ever you go.
You get ethnic minorities who play the race card to get what they want and then you get white people being racist. Unfortunately it seems to be life.
Its people!
And I still don't think that those from ethnic minorities need seperate advice bureaus. Start creating divisions and some will feel alienated. We should be working to make sure NO ONE feels alienated, be they white or black or any other ethnic minority. That day will depend mainly on the majority embracing and supporting the minority. And judging by some attitudes that will be a long time off. Minorities still have greater needs so until we really are all equal, I'll agree to differ with you on that point

I agree with melthebell, rosyrat and all the others who realise WHY support agencies for minorities were set up in the first place and still exist. If there is a need to set up the same sort of 'learn to speak English' or 'how do I get a NI number' support organisation for those of us in the majority - why hasn't it been done?

the worlds gone mad

tbh im fed up of arguing on this thread now, nobody takes on board anything anybody says (including me) so im bowing out now

happy new year






maybe those poor whites will get the help they so desperately need in this black and asian country :D

Hmm, quite a statement at the end of this to bow out on but totally unecessary. This is not a Black /Asian country......far from it. It is not geared up for ethnic (still hate the word ) people at all. Look at what we have to go through to get anything worth while and when we do get a break through in anything major its publicised and trashed. Sure, not all is good press and some problems can be self-inflicted but never say that this is Black/Asian country. Look at what we have contributed to the UK in trade, culture, arts, music, fashion, fighting in wars.....shalll I go on???????.
I have repected your view MTB but sorry not this one .

Hmm, quite a statement at the end of this to bow out on but totally unecessary. This is not a Black /Asian country......far from it. It is not geared up for ethnic (still hate the word ) people at all. Look at what we have to go through to get anything worth while and when we do get a break through in anything major its publicised and trashed. Sure, not all is good press and some problems can be self-inflicted but never say that this is Black/Asian country. Look at what we have contributed to the UK in trade, culture, arts, music, fashion, fighting in wars.....shalll I go on???????.
I have repected your view MTB but sorry not this one .


I think it was probably an attempt at sarcasm from MTB. I'm not sure who you mean by 'we' but I've read it as black/asians. Why do you see yourselves as a separate entity? Maybe if people didn't think of living here as 'them and us' we would make greater moves to integration.

I haven't read the entire thread as I don't have the time. But I think this is an important issue.

I can see why, on the surface organisations like this appear to be racist in the positive discrimination sense. And I am still in two minds about the use of positive discrimination because it breaks the feeling of equality and can stir things up between white people and ethnic minorites.

But I work in an office which is an Awarding Body for colleges in the area who deal with some organisations that are aimed primarily towards educating people in the ethnic minority community and as I check various certificates for students of these organisations a lot of them are related to important things such as learning the English language, learning English culture, learning the English legal system, I can't help but applaud the people who run these courses and the people who take them for wanting further integration. This is what I think is the bigger picture.

I'd like to add that there are also small colleges that are just for women who have been victims of domestic abuse. Is this sexist?

The reason this organisation will state 'ethnic minorities' in it's description is probably because the courses will not relate to white people and because they want to encourage the ethnic community to join. Not because they want to EXCLUDE white people.

i havent read the whole post so sorry if i am repeating anything.

organisations like black card are not there to discriminate against white people. black card is there to help anyone from an ethnic minority. as white is the majority why would we need a white card?? that doesnt make sense - everyone has ways to get help with getting jobs or help with deciding on college or university issues. if you are under 19 you can go into connexions and get an appointment to see a p.a. - black card is there because of discrimination which still exists in this country. everyone can be discriminated against im not saying that racism is just a one way thing.

i read the post saying that in burngreve white people are a minority. well i would just like to point out that white people are not a minority because alot of differnt ethnic groups live there, not just two, ethnic minority groups and white people. remember there are ALOT of differnt ethnic minoritys so therefore white is the majority because everyone of ethnic minority does not come from the same place!
this is why black card is helpful because it helps EVERY ethnic minority............. i dont know if i am explaining my point very well here lol

i also read the post about sheffield college having a black access course. i am not sure about this one but i am guessing that the reason this has been created is for the same reason, that ethnic minorities are more likely to be discriminated against in the work place as they are a minority. again i am not saying that white people are never discriminated against. - when we learn at school or college white examples are often used to aid learning. on the black access course examples are used which could be of interest to them, this may help them achieve better results if it is something that interests them

one of my friends went on a ethnic minority only session thing i think it was to do with football. basically i think this is used to ease tension between the differnt ethnic minority groups and ease tension within minority groups. - sessions like this also give the chance for ethnic minorities to feel like the majority which they dont get in everyday society.

if you go to a majority black country you will find groups that are all white.

Hmm, quite a statement at the end of this to bow out on but totally unecessary. This is not a Black /Asian country......far from it. It is not geared up for ethnic (still hate the word ) people at all. Look at what we have to go through to get anything worth while and when we do get a break through in anything major its publicised and trashed. Sure, not all is good press and some problems can be self-inflicted but never say that this is Black/Asian country. Look at what we have contributed to the UK in trade, culture, arts, music, fashion, fighting in wars.....shalll I go on???????.
I have repected your view MTB but sorry not this one .

I'm positive that MTB meant this as a tongue in cheek response to all the 'Black Card is Racist' comments. Nothing he has ever posted would lead me to believe otherwise.

Below are the entry requirements for Kent University College of Creative Arts. Selected randomly of the internet & typical of HE entry specs.

"All courses are conducted in English. For students whose first language is not English, we require a certificate as evidence that you have the required level of English to succeed on your chosen course, as follows:
Foundation and National Diplomas: IELTS 5.5/TOEFL 525 (CBT 193)
Degree courses: IELTS 6.0/TOEFL 550 (CBT 213)
Postgraduate courses: IELTS 6.5/TOEFL 575 (CBT 230)"

So what happens if you do not possess any of these qualifications ? If you are British born and educated, it doesn't apply. If your first language is not English, you have all these extra hoops to jump through. So you use the services of Black Card. Oh, sorry no, that's discriminatory. Best go without the education that all white British kids can access.

Below are the entry requirements for Kent University College of Creative Arts. Selected randomly of the internet & typical of HE entry specs.

"All courses are conducted in English. For students whose first language is not English, we require a certificate as evidence that you have the required level of English to succeed on your chosen course, as follows:
Foundation and National Diplomas: IELTS 5.5/TOEFL 525 (CBT 193)
Degree courses: IELTS 6.0/TOEFL 550 (CBT 213)
Postgraduate courses: IELTS 6.5/TOEFL 575 (CBT 230)"

So what happens if you do not possess any of these qualifications ? If you are British born and educated, it doesn't apply. If your first language is not English, you have all these extra hoops to jump through. So you use the services of Black Card. Oh, sorry no, that's discriminatory. Best go without the education that all white British kids can access.



Where does it mention skin colour in those entry requirements then Rosy?

I only see the bit about non-english speaking applicants. and I think it's fair enough that you have to speak English to attend college in England is it not???

So what's being white got to do with it?

You should be careful - it's people like you making things up and stirring the pot that helps cause problems.

[QUOTE=bassplayer] This is not a Black /Asian country......QUOTE]

maybe not yet its not but its well on the way

You should be careful - it's people like you making things up and stirring the pot that helps cause problems.

Ally

Why should I be careful ? This sounds very much like a threat. We all have our views on the Forum and we respect each other's points of view. Much as I may not agree with some of the opinions posted here, I would never warn another Forummer to be careful. Would you like to explain ?

Ally

Why should I be careful ? This sounds very much like a threat. We all have our views on the Forum and we respect each other's points of view. Much as I may not agree with some of the opinions posted here, I would never warn another Forummer to be careful. Would you like to explain ?

I'm very sorry it sounded like a threat Rosy, it most certainly wasn't.

It was merely advice, that when you come on a forum trying to inflame situations like this one - then it can only end in tears.

I simply thought that you could have worded your post a little better, rather than diving straight in with an unfounded accusation of discrimination.

Where does it mention skin colour in those entry requirements then Rosy?

I only see the bit about non-english speaking applicants. and I think it's fair enough that you have to speak English to attend college in England is it not???

So what's being white got to do with it?

You should be careful - it's people like you making things up and stirring the pot that helps cause problems.
You don't have to blatantly write the word 'white' to have implied racism. I think you're missing the point. Rosy wasn't suggestion that Kent University is racist merely that there needs to be somewhere where non-english speaking people can learn English, or get the certificate needed. These kinds of colleges are ideal for this kind of thing. They encourage it and provide a service that perhaps a mainstream college cannot.

You don't have to blatantly write the word 'white' to have implied racism. I think you're missing the point. Rosy wasn't suggestion that Kent University is racist merely that there needs to be somewhere where non-english speaking people can learn English, or get the certificate needed. These kinds of colleges are ideal for this kind of thing. They encourage it and provide a service that perhaps a mainstream college cannot.

Oh I see - so this 'black card' spot only helps immigrants does it?

Oh thats right of course it does - because only white kids get to go to school in this country don't they?!!!! :loopy:

Schools are reknowned for not giving everyone the kind of service they need white or whatever colour. And there needs to be places where people can then go to if they want to correct this and these places tend to only have enough funding to deal with a small amount of people's requirements. If you can start an organisation that caters for every person of every race or culture, or language and every need of every needy person at the same time then you're a better person than me.

I haven't researched Black Card's organisation but they have obviously decided that the ethnic minorities in that area need some extra help and they are going to encourage them to seek that help, whatever it may be.

There are huge governmental programmes designed aiming at groups of people just at the 16-25 age range, is this agist? Or is it just a realistic approach to dealing with a target group?

Schools are reknowned for not giving everyone the kind of service they need white or whatever colour. And there needs to be places where people can then go to if they want to correct this and these places tend to only have enough funding to deal with a small amount of people's requirements. If you can start an organisation that caters for every person of every race or culture, or language and every need of every needy person at the same time then you're a better person than me.

I haven't researched Black Card's organisation but they have obviously decided that the ethnic minorities in that area need some extra help and they are going to encourage them to seek that help, whatever it may be.

There are huge governmental programmes designed aiming at groups of people just at the 16-25 age range, is this agist? Or is it just a realistic approach to dealing with a target group?

Look, I haven't a problem with anyone wanting to do something like this - even if it just helps one person, then it's better than doing nothing.

I merely objected to the generalisation that white children receive better education than black or asian children.

We all need as much help as we can get in this world of ours, you'll not hear me begrudging anyone.

Well you didn't put it across like that, and given the nature of the thread it was expected to get a response.

I agree with you about the generalisations thing. I think one of the problems with education is that people don't look at individual needs and just label groups which can create generalisations.

Look, I haven't a problem with anyone wanting to do something like this - even if it just helps one person, then it's better than doing nothing.

I merely objected to the generalisation that white children receive better education than black or asian children.

We all need as much help as we can get in this world of ours, you'll not hear me begrudging anyone.

I'm glad to hear that. Rosyrat is my partner and I think you may have misinterpreted what she was trying to point out which is that organisations such as Black CARD are attempting to level the playing field.

The excerpt from the entry requirements for Kent Uni was merely there to show that not being British born can be another hurdle which has to be faced. Any organisation which helps people clear that hurdle can only be applauded.

[QUOTE=bassplayer] This is not a Black /Asian country......QUOTE]

maybe not yet its not but its well on the way

I don't understand your reasoning? From the 2001 census, the Yorkshire and Humber statistics show:
Out of every 1000 people in the region
916 are White British
45 are Asian
18 are White non-British
9 people are of mixed race
7 people are Black
2 people are Chinese

So thats around 93% white population in this part of the country.

Overall for the UK the statistics show over 91% who class themselves as white. If anyone is really interested http://www.cre.gov.uk/diversity/ethnicity/whitebritish.html

[QUOTE=SarahD]Schools are reknowned for not giving everyone the kind of service they need white or whatever colour. QUOTE]

Maybe, but schools receive extra funding for ethnic minorities, whether they are born and raised here or are here as immigrants. Why does a school receive better funding depending on the colour of the skin of the pupils? I can understand if a school has taken in asylum seekers that they may need extra teachers/teaching assistants because of the language barrier but otherwise I'm at a loss to see why.

i dont know it might be because there are alot more white teachers in each school and white is a big majority. ethnic minority groups are shown often to perform at a lower level. this could be the reason that extra funding in brought in to support them. like i said before the curriculum is still centered alot around english history and although ethnic minorities want to learn about that the history of thier country would interest them more.

i am mixed race black and white and i think organisations like black card are very good. i have never been helped by black card or any organisation which is there to support ethnic minorities not because the system has failed or anything like that but because i am quite a high achiever. i think any organisation that helps people to achieve is a good thing. organisations like connexions are there to help everyone its just that black card is an example of an organisation there to help minorities because they are the minority. if white people were the minority and needed help in learning the language of the country or getting a job because they didnt get qualifictions here then you would understand there being a white card. or there being extra help in schools or anything like that.

it is not that white people dont have a place to get help because there are alot of places. this place and others like it are there to help a section of society which includes people from lots of differnt places around the world. again i am not putting across my point very well lol

also anyone who thinks that white people are the majority are a bit tapped because that is far from the truth!! it seems that if about a 3rd of people in a room are of ethnic minority then some people feel liek white people are the minority - obviously the majority of people wouldnt feel this way but certain people do

it seems that if about a 3rd of people in a room are of ethnic minority then some people feel liek white people are the minority - obviously the majority of people wouldnt feel this way but certain people do

I think you've hit on an important truth there sheff123, that seems to typify some of the attitudes of (presumably) white posters on here; they're whining about organisations which exist to promote black and ethnic minority based education, training and work opportunities, whilst completely failing to recognise that as white people in what's still a predominantly white country they have all the cards stacked in their favour.

I think you've hit on an important truth there sheff123, that seems to typify some of the attitudes of (presumably) white posters on here; they're whining about organisations which exist to promote black and ethnic minority based education, training and work opportunities, whilst completely failing to recognise that as white people in what's still a predominantly white country they have all the cards stacked in their favour.


lol thankyou
all im saying is that everyone no matter what there ethnicity may need help at differnt points in thier life and may be discriminated against but these places are there to help people get thier life in the right direction. people who complain about places liek this are also the people who complain about asylum seekers "scrounging off society". well places liek these are set up to help asylum seekers get a qualifications and a good job so that they dont have to "scrounge off society" this is one of the many thing places like black card do

Im not one of them racists, i hate people beating down on other's because of their skin colour and stuff. My aunty has a pal who is black. But i dont agree with this shop malarky, what if i want some help like?

The RNIB is for ALL ethnicities and therefore isn't discriminating against anyone. Saying it discriminates against people with other disabilities isn't really the same argument.


You misunderstand. Discrimination is discrimination whatever the reason. My point is that singling a certain minority out is not always negative. There is positive discrimination. People are getting very picky on this post. The issue is not what is discrimination. THe question was 'Is Black Card Racist by the nature of its definition'. I don't disagree with what it does I just think the name 'Black Card' has lead people to believe that its just for black people.

What is a 'Black Card'? is it something in reference to, say, 'you've blotted your copy book' or the red card in football. Is it actually talking about the colour of the people it is their to help? Could this be a possibility?

Im not one of them racists, i hate people beating down on other's because of their skin colour and stuff. My aunty has a pal who is black. But i dont agree with this shop malarky, what if i want some help like?
Then there's loads of places you can get it.

Schools are reknowned for not giving everyone the kind of service they need white or whatever colour.

Maybe, but schools receive extra funding for ethnic minorities, whether they are born and raised here or are here as immigrants. Why does a school receive better funding depending on the colour of the skin of the pupils? I can understand if a school has taken in asylum seekers that they may need extra teachers/teaching assistants because of the language barrier but otherwise I'm at a loss to see why.


Thats not true. We have a polish child in our school and apart from me being able to say 'Good', 'thank you', 'cheers' and 'brother' thats the only help he gets because there isn't any money to give him a learning support assistant. Poorly performing schools get extra funding and this may be what you are confused with.

I totally agree with the poster and it is racist.

I totally agree with the poster and it is racist.

Ok, so you feel it's racist. Who suffers as a consequence, if that's the case?