I've noticed several threads about people who act in anti=social ways, I was just wondering if there was anyone in the government who watched the 'Bad boys Army' and is going to have the courage to stand up and say, 'what a great idea' Let's give these hooligans a dose of 1950's national service, you never know they might come out with some respect for themselves and for other people.
On a side note, the idiot who has been using my local supermarket carpark as a race track, why oh why don't the police take his car away from him and CRUSH it, then maybe I could get some peace in the evening.

The lads on "Bad Boys Army" only did it to get on TV, I doubt it realy changed their behaviour at all.

How to deal with louts

off with the goolies

Originally posted by kirky
How to deal with louts

off with the goolies

AT LEAST........perhaps a brain transplant? Take out their "cabbage" inside their skull and replace with the brain of a common garden vole......I think a huge improvmement would be observed.

Usually, I'd advocate letting the Police deal with them. However, when I was attacked by a drunken lout at Bootle Oriel Road railway station [near Liverpool] one night about four years ago, I dealt with his attempt to punch me, by ducking and kicking him very hard in the testicles. He thought that I was easy prey, but little did he know that beneath the "civilised" veneer lurked Hinde House Man. As a former pupil of that Sheffield hellhole, I at least know how to defend myself!

How do deal with louts?

It's a prison sentence.

Short, sharp, shock. Then if they offend again, it can be a very long sharp shock.

Work camps.

Prisons are too cushy, they get to laze around and play on Playstations and learn new crimes.

I agree prisons are too cushy the only thing they lose is their liberty ( in most cases ) Prison doesn't put the hardened criminals off.

Chain gangs maybe?:o

Something needs to be done,these thugs need to know if they do wrong they WILL pay,it makes me sick how soft the law is on them,get some prison camps set up,give them hell until they learn,also think a zero tolerance law should be enforced,if things go on as they are who knows where it will end?
God i'm on a rant now,sound like my dad,seriously though it really annoys me,deport the ********s.
Is it the society we now live in or has it always been like this?bloody chavs running riot everywhere,i'm only in my thirtys,but when i was younger,there was the odd scumbag but they learnt,(parents,law ect) now there seems to be less respect,parents fault? are kids still afraid of upsetting their parents?i know i used to be,do they respect the teachers?Don't get me wrong i'm not refering to all kids,but alot of them look at you with total disrespect.
Send them to boot camp,TEACH them a lesson,because what these thugs get away with is not fair on normal peaceful folk.

Blame this (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/) bunch of bloody do-gooders.

The government plan something and this lot jump all over it. "You can't use ID cards", "You can't make a DNA database".

Why not?

Originally posted by alchresearch
Blame this (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/) bunch of bloody do-gooders.

The government plan something and this lot jump all over it. "You can't use ID cards", "You can't make a DNA database".

Why not?
I despair, i really do.
Something has GOT to be done.
These thugs need to know the punishment will be worse than the crime,much worse,but what hope is there when bloody do gooders keep sticking their oars in.
People will go on about human rights ect,but isn't it a human right to be able to walk down the street without a gang of chavs threatening you? A human right to expect your car to be where you left it?
As far as i'm concerned the scum has no human rights,you see them in the street,yes they are mainly teens,but can you honestly see most of them amounting to much in later life?
The goverment HAS to get tough and make the punishment fit the crime,take a leaf out of judge dredds book,zero tolerance and a ten year stretch in the juve cube.........seriously.

How to deal with louts


Give them love and education!!:cool:

Unfortunately, it's all too late. Society has allowed this situation to go so far down the road that the only way out of it is drastic Draconian measures being taken. The louts/scumbags have the upper hand today and they know only too well that we can't touch them. The Police know they are fighting a losing battle and are fairly ineffective in dealing with yob behaviour. I know I will be sneered at by the do-gooders, but the only way out of this mess is corporal punishment, boot camps, chain gangs etc. Without such measures it will only get worse. Imagine what the children and grandchildren of present day louts will turn out like. God, it doesn't bear thinking about.

Originally posted by Magneteer
Unfortunately, it's all too late. Society has allowed this situation to go so far down the road that the only way out of it is drastic Draconian measures being taken. The louts/scumbags have the upper hand today and they know only too well that we can't touch them. The Police know they are fighting a losing battle and are fairly ineffective in dealing with yob behaviour. I know I will be sneered at by the do-gooders, but the only way out of this mess is corporal punishment, boot camps, chain gangs etc. Without such measures it will only get worse. Imagine what the children and grandchildren of present day louts will turn out like. God, it doesn't bear thinking about.

No I don't think that goes far enough.

The should be locked up ... in very basic conditions ... and pay for their own keep and food.

A good long spell of penal servitude at Parkhirst maximum security prison would do them the world of good. Lets say about 25 years, to give them enough time to grow up and mature a bit.

They would meet lots of really hard men in there (presumably they would want that as they like to be hard themselves) and they would never be short of a sex life (whether they want one or not):D

Originally posted by missb
I agree prisons are too cushy the only thing they lose is their liberty ( in most cases ) Prison doesn't put the hardened criminals off.

Chain gangs maybe?:o


They don't even lose their liberty entirely. Multi-convicted rapists are allowed out on "weekend leave" to buy Lotto tickets. Blame the wishy washy, lefty, do "good" brigade for the current state of affairs.

Surley years and years of forced sodomy from a succession of brutal gangsters etc would humble them a little. The fact that they were suffering would also be a pleasant thought for their victims.

Originally posted by t020
They don't even lose their liberty entirely. Multi-convicted rapists are allowed out on "weekend leave" to buy Lotto tickets. Blame the wishy washy, lefty, do "good" brigade for the current state of affairs.
Blame them (whoever they may be, if they even exist) or the louts themselves?

You exclude yourself from collective responsibility - which is precisely the attitude that engenders a "me first" society, the benefits of which we all reap.

and slimsid - what's this fascination for male rape you seem to have?

What causes louts? It's clearly a single cause that can be easily identified and dealt with - no more louts - easy: but what is that cause?

(or maybe just maybe they are a symptom of a far more complex and deep rooted problem)

Think of human society as an ecology. Louts occupy an ecological niche - wipe them out, something else will replace them. Imprisonment hasn't worked yet - why would it suddenly start doing so now?

Thinking long term here........ How about offering a lout/chav/yob/waster etc a couple of grand and say a free I-pod, if he agreed to undergo a chemical castration proccess ( which would be painless unfortunately ). I reckon they would snatch our hands off at the offer. OK it would cost a couple of billion quid to fund this programme but, hey, think of the saving long term and the quality of life for normal folk in future years. Remove 'em from the gene pool I say.

Turning a lout into a castrato is going to stop him being a lout ? And what of all the female louts...wotcha goin' to cut off them ? :D

Greybeard,
Of course castratation isn't going to stop a lout being a lout. Like I said , it's a long term thing. They aint gonna breed and produce future generations of lout. It won't really matter about female louts ( loutesses ) either, if the male louts are only firing blanks the whole lout species would eventually become extinct.

Originally posted by Phanerothyme

Think of human society as an ecology. Louts occupy an ecological niche - wipe them out, something else will replace them. Imprisonment hasn't worked yet - why would it suddenly start doing so now?

Louts were less of a problem when prisons were harsher. The yob culture is the by-product of liberal do-gooders.

personaly id kick the s--- out of them all and deport them 2 a desert island with no food or water, bit extreme granted but thats how these subhumans live. let them do it together and leave decent folk 2 get on with a normal and quiet life.

Originally posted by t020
Louts were less of a problem when prisons were harsher. Naturally you have some basis for this assertion. Share?

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Naturally you have some basis for this assertion. Share?

Anti social behaviour is rising, prison conditions are improving.

Originally posted by t020
prison conditions are improving.

There have been several Prison Inspectorate reports to the contrary over the past few years.

But can we afford to send them all to jail ? In March the prison population stood at 75,000 [up 20% since New Labour came to power so you can't say they're unenthusiatic about banging people up]. Average annual cost of keeping someone in prison is £37,000.

Put them in the stocks locally and let everybody have a go at them!

Originally posted by Greybeard
There have been several Prison Inspectorate reports to the contrary over the past few years.

But can we afford to send them all to jail ? In March the prison population stood at 75,000 [up 20% since New Labour came to power so you can't say they're unenthusiatic about banging people up]. Average annual cost of keeping someone in prison is £37,000.

But how much would that average annual cost be if we took away the TVs, the Playstations, the ensuites, etc etc? And what if, instead of playing pool or table tennis, prisoners were forced into labour for, say, 8 hours a day, producing things that could be sold by the prison so they could earn their keep? For example, the prisoners could be forced into 40 hours per week making wooden furniture. The prison would be able to sell the furniture and the prisoners would eventually leave prison (after serving their sentence in its entirety and without any leave) with experience of a craft.

Sounds good to me t020 ... it seems very unfair that society has to pay to keep criminals behind bars.

How would you force them to work?

No work = no food / bed / nicer cell ?

Originally posted by Jamie
Sounds good to me t020 ... it seems very unfair that society has to pay to keep criminals behind bars.

How would you force them to work?

No work = no food / bed / nicer cell ?


Either that or a sound beating. :D

Originally posted by t020
But how much would that average annual cost be if we took away the TVs, the Playstations, the ensuites, etc etc? And what if, instead of playing pool or table tennis, prisoners were forced into labour for, say, 8 hours a day, producing things that could be sold by the prison so they could earn their keep? For example, the prisoners could be forced into 40 hours per week making wooden furniture. The prison would be able to sell the furniture and the prisoners would eventually leave prison (after serving their sentence in its entirety and without any leave) with experience of a craft.

It's probably cheaper to supply them with all these things than have to employ extra staff to monitor them every hour of the day. In normal society parents use the exact same methods as unpaid babysitting facilities.

Would you want to use furniture which had been made by people forced into doing it? There'd be no knowing what was hidden within to inflict damage. The cost of employing people to monitor the quality, before you recommend it, would also eat up any profit such a scheme would bring in.

Plus, if inmates started making goods then this woud have a ripple effect in society outside as jobs went due to the cheap labour available inside.

Yet another example of a "Thick as Pigpoo Brigade" © 2004 unthought-out solution.

Originally posted by Jamie
Sounds good to me t020 ... it seems very unfair that society has to pay to keep criminals behind bars.

How would you force them to work?

No work = no food / bed / nicer cell ?

why not just put a bullet in their brain and be done with it? Cheap summary justice. Prison obviously doesn't work (more people in prison, and rising antisocial behaviour (allegedly))

Hmm slave labour, nice idea - worked well in Stalin's Russia, Hitlers Germany, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Botha's South Africa - Who's to say we can't make it work here too.

Either you're baiting or you've lost 'the way' here J. :) (bad boy!)

The costs of prison are not the fixtures and fittings (anyone with a bit of nous would see this) but salaries and ongoing contracts.

It all depends what your goals are really, rehabilitation or retribution and exile. If they are the latter, a bullet in the brain is really much, much cheaper.

Originally posted by goldenfleece
AT LEAST........perhaps a brain transplant? Take out their "cabbage" inside their skull and replace with the brain of a common garden vole......I think a huge improvmement would be observed.

The voles are not going to thank you for that...

Originally posted by Phanerothyme
Either you're baiting or you've lost 'the way' here J. :) (bad boy!)

Lost my way !! ... which way was that ?

As for baiting ... I would never do that ;)

I was just following t020's fine example ... after all ... he is the master baiter round these parts isn't he !?

(sorry ... I know ... bad boy!).

Ok ... serious bit.

I think as soon as you go down the road of setting up rules and regulations for people to follow and dishing out rewards and punishments ... you're heading for trouble.

But as we seem to be well and truely down that road ... I guess we can only make the best of it ... and I don't thing there is going to be a perfect solution (or anything close) to this.

Deciding that someone has commited a crime and forcibly taking them and putting them in prison ... is in itself an act of violence against that person. Infact ... what we call a 'crime' is very subjective and really it's all about the people who are in a position of power in society protecting their own interests. That's what I consider to be the legal system (laws, policing, courts, prison). It is only there to protect the interests of 'those that have'. It seems to have little or nothing to do with human sensebilities and love and compassion and creating a nurturing society.

If people are not capable of acting in a kind and humane way to themselves and to each other ... then we're all lost.

Following what is 'right' (!?) ... within your own being ... your own heart ... seems to me to be of much more importance than following laws rules and regulations set down by the people in power to protect their own interests.

But then it's not that simple. What I've just said is perhaps a bit naive and wishful ... so on the flip side of the 'coin' we have .........

People do murder, rape, rob and harm each other in a variety of ways. Good and decent normal human beings need to be protected from this behaviour or we'll have a free for all.

I don't know how best to do that. But there is maybe something to be learned for the Taoist thing of ...

Divert a raving river while it is still a trickling stream.

OR

Chop down a great tree while it is still a young sapling.

Perhaps more time and effort should be taken to look at why people behave in these ways.

As for people already in prison. If they can find in themselves (with help / councelling) a sense of love for themselves and given the opportunity to examine what they've done and why and how it has affected them and other people ... then so much the better.

Then there is the argument that if they just get a soft ride in prison ... it does not put off other people from commiting crimes.

So maybe they (convicts) should be put to good use serving the community in whatever way they can ... maybe that would have the best effect on them !?

I truth though Phan ... I am no expert here and I don't know what's for the best.

Oh, what a surprise. I dare to criticise max for his unnecessary, patronising and insulting remark and my post gets removed. But note his comment doesn't.

Originally posted by t020
Oh, what a surprise. I dare to criticise max for his unnecessary, patronising and insulting remark and my post gets removed. But note his comment doesn't.

Oh dear t020 ... I wonder how long that post will remain too !?

5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...

Originally posted by Jamie
Oh dear t020 ... I wonder how long that post will remain too !?

5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...


Well, max can provoke, patronise and insult until the cows come home, but god forbid anyone should dare to make a comeback.

I don't think this is the place to discuss it t020 ... maybe yousShould really start another thread in feedback or somewhere if you feel badly treated ?

Can we get back on topic please ?

If you are going to look at the costs of putting louts in prison you also have to look at the costs of keeping them out.

I suspect there wouldn't need to be as many police, bouncers security people etc employed as there is at present.

Also they wouldn't be claiming benefits (if they do) when in prison. However, I certanly don't want to suggest that all louts are on benefit, many are no doubt in paid employment and most people on benefit are not louts but decent law abiding citizens.

There would not be the cost of mending damage they do or the NHS having to treat their victims.

These are of course only the financial costs of not imprisoning them. The costs in terms of decent people's quality of life and their loss of liberty because of fear of crime cannot be calculated so easily.

The reality is you either lock up the guilty or the innocent will feel obliged to lock themselves up in their own homes. I would prefer the guilty imprisoned and the innocent free.

Why not send them all off to disaster areas,to help with the clean up ect?
Might teach them a bit of respect.

Usually, I'd advocate letting the Police deal with them. However, when I was attacked by a drunken lout at Bootle Oriel Road railway station [near Liverpool] one night about four years ago, I dealt with his attempt to punch me, by ducking and kicking him very hard in the testicles. He thought that I was easy prey, but little did he know that beneath the "civilised" veneer lurked Hinde House Man. As a former pupil of that Sheffield hellhole, I at least know how to defend myself!

Cool story, major cool, I just loved "Hinde House Man" he certainly picked the wrong ex student, hope he winced.

An inexpensive, rapid, effective and simple cure... The Singaporean Solution...

Bring back conscription - send 'em to Iraq - see how big they are then.