I ask because my daughter is going to her company "do" and has booked a taxi but they have told her they can't guarantee getting there on time because town is gridlocked.
This is booked for 6.30

Who knows - lifes a gamble.

Yes town is once again gridlocked.!..what joy....

jt

If you're fed up of getting stuck in traffic, why not buy one of these....

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=170090

Looks like Mayhem (http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/travel-information/traffic-cameras/camera-list) again!

It is. Just took 2 hours to get from meadowhall to broomhill, COMPLETE NIGHTMARE!!!

If you're fed up of getting stuck in traffic, why not buy one of these....

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=170090

or you could do what i did..bought a motor scooter...no traffic problems at all.!

jt

http://sccplugins.sheffield.gov.uk/utc/prob1.asp

Read this first!

Ive heard theres been an accident on Ecclesall road where i work and one on the Parkway

Just got this of the sheffield star website:

http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1933751

AAARRGGHHHHH!!!!
Its been an absolute nightmare, and still is, we left Hillsborough this afternoon, around 12:30pm, and from Shalesmoor, right up to the BrookHill Roundabout was packed all way up, and down to Bramall Lane R/bout.
Its even worse coming back, Shalesmoor (again) from West Bar. all Penistone Rd and across to Leppings Lane- chocca.
Its took us almost an hour and a half to get from Heeley Grn to Hillsborough Park.
We're home now, the cars parked up, (and will be till Sunday now!!) there's a couple of nice cold ones in the fridge just shouting at me!! :hihi:
So, thats me done for the week.
PHEW!! :o

hanover way has been bad all day, i dont think ive seen that round clear at all. merry xmas drivers :)

Yeah, i noticed West St./Division St. (et al) were starting to get snarled up at lunchtime.

Gridlock 2 days on the trot... who wants to start a conspiracy theory? :hihi:



.

how long do you guys reckon it will take on the bus from Eccy road to town?! Then town to Wybounn?!!!

Just had a call from the wife who's presently stuck on Netherthorpe Road and has been for an hour; there is a broken down car in the right hand lane going up toward the roundabout.

Just another one on the list, eh?

Beck2006: yesterday it took me an hour on the bus to get from Hunters Bar to Arundel Gate. I expect it will be similar today.

or you could do what i did..bought a motor scooter...no traffic problems at all.!

jt

Yeah dude, scooters rule in traffic. None scooter owners wouldn't believe how mardy some drivers get when we're traffic filtering. . its ace!

Traffic, what traffic.

And before anyone says "at least im in my nice warm car with my stereo and air conditioning" it means nowt to a scooter rider.
Mainly cos he/she knows they'll be home in 15 - 20 minutes in their nice warm houses, sat infront of the tele with coffee, regardless of traffic, weather or owt. . !!

I'm working by westbar roundabout and there's a lot of ambulances going past, Hope there's nothing serious going on. :(

I am glad that all I have to do after work is walk to the train station and get on a train. :)

It has taken my friend an hour to drive from Broomhill (she left at 4pm) to the roundabout in front of matrix (she called on the mobile) at 17.21 she is now near Gatecrasher. Soooo i'm off for a Mulled wine before I venture out to catch the bus! Sluurp! :clap:

How is the tram service?

Although as long as I can get to a boozer in town from Attercliffe I AIN'T BOVVERED!

I'm working by westbar roundabout and there's a lot of ambulances going past, Hope there's nothing serious going on. :(

I am glad that all I have to do after work is walk to the train station and get on a train. :)

I just had a butchers outta our window and saw that one mountin' the kerb in a desparate effort to get past. . its manic out there. .

. . might pop out for a wee ride in a few minutes. . ;)

My Dad's just rung, he's stuck in a major traffic jam on the Parkway, 15 minutes ago he said he wasn't even at the Parkway roundabout and he'd rung an hour previous to tell us he was near the Parkway and would be home in a bit.

Been a damn nightmare!

Yeah, i noticed West St./Division St. (et al) were starting to get snarled up at lunchtime.

Gridlock 2 days on the trot... who wants to start a conspiracy theory? :hihi:



.

The town planners of Sheffield are pants? Nah, we all know that already, don't we - that's not a conspiracy theory - just incompetence :hihi:

StarSparkle

It's a wet Friday a week before christmas and people are still shocked that the traffic is terrrible! Someone else is moaning about missing a play because it's taken so long to get out of John Lewis carpark, it's prettly bloody obvious that going shopping in the town centre on a Friday afternoon a week before christmas in the rain is a stupid idea if you have somewhere to be.
:)

Even us ambulances have had a nightmare getting through on calls. Been bedlem all day and really bad from about 2.30. took our crew an hour and 10mins to get back to station from castle square.

Can't fault your work and efforts and from what I saw, he wouldnt have needed to go on the pavement, if the tools on the other side of the road that were inspecting their minor bump had got off the friggin road!

Again (http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=170099) everyone is frustrated behind the wheel :|

I'm not bothered. I'm in the Dove and Rainbow playing on the internet and drinking scrumpy. This is always the best course of action when confronted by heavy traffic and infrequent buses.

think this needs merging with the other thread

There was a traffic light failure according to the bus driver, but there had also been an artic broken down somewhere near the station, as I saw the tow truck take the cab unit away. As soon as this was done the area around the bus station miraculously freed up, and the bus shot down Queens Rd as it was absolutely dead heading to Abbeydale Rd.

Much of the congestion round the bus station was caused by people illegally driving down Paternoster Row and past the NMB to turn right and rat run. The buses couldn't get past because of the sheer number of cars sitting there where they are not allowed. So all the buses were then backed up and couldn't either get in or out of the Interchange.

It took the bus I was travelling on, over an hour to get from the bus stops on Waingate, by the Market, to the town hall, from 3.40/3.45 to five pm.

I heard tell there was some sort of accident, which contributed to the chaos.

I heard tell there was some sort of accident, which contributed to the chaos.

I would think so by the number of ambulances that have gone past my office in the past hour. :(

Looks like hell out there. Just got soaked walking back from boho and the traffic on West Street, and all the side roads is barely moving. On a side note, the traffic cameras are working again, and it looks like hell EVERYWHERE!

Good thinking - I usually have finished up in the 'Dog and Partridge' in Trippet Lane when I worked in Exchange St.

Double or treble road tax and fuel duty on private cars so us van drivers can do our work.

We need to get out there and do things to keep the country going while you lot are just on the bloody school run or out to visit some woman's knitting group or something.

Double or treble road tax and fuel duty on private cars so us van drivers can do our work.

We need to get out there and do things to keep the country going while you lot are just on the bloody school run or out to visit some woman's knitting group or something.

. . Troll score 2 outta 5. Must try harder!!! ;)

I left Woodseats at 5.07, arrived Attercliffe 17.25, did trolley dash around warehouse left there at 17.55 and arrived back at Woodseats via Bernard Rd, Norfolk Park, little streets at the back of Heeley, Chesterfield Rd, Little London Rd, Woodseats Rd at 18.25 which is about 5 minutes longer than it usually takes me ... the gridlock must be all in the City Centre?

But having been forewarned by the similar thread last night, I made sure not to go anywhere near any roads you lot might be blocking up :hihi:

I thought I have seen everything, until the tonight.....

Cars were turning left from the ring road into the Shell garage after Scotland Street, driving straight through the garage and turning left onto Scotland Street to drive across the ring road / tram track.

I presume these cars had enough of queuing at the new Shalesmoor / Ring road roundabout and took the left hand slip road. Then they used the above to carry on their journey.

What this actually resulted in was gridlock on Scotland Street, cars on Scotland Street couldn't move because they were queuing to get into the garage. Cars couldn't get out of the garage because of the queue on Scotland Street. Lovely!

The cross roads on Scotland Street was absolute chaos, it took me 40 mins to get through it all. I left work at 4pm, hate to think what this was like at 5pm

From Monday I am parking my car down by Medico Legal Centre. Ironic as the council caused chaos will result in losing my fiver a day parking to them.

I know it is only a drop in the ocean to how much the ring road "improvements" have actually cost!

Stuart

well, mounting the pavement is generally frowned upon, but must admit ive had to do it twice today

It's just taken me 3 and a half hours to go from Chapeltown to Crookes via town. I ended up walking from town to Crookes, uphill, in the rain, with screaming child in pushchair, all because I knew I had a snowball's chance in hell of getting home otherwise!

I don't know whether it's the time of year or what, but adding two hours onto a journey is just ridiculous :rant:

Mod note: Threads merged.

Benson's note

I said it last night and I'll say it again tonight - bloody town planners want sacking. No other major cities have to go through this year in and year out (unless anyone can tell me different?)

Benson's note I said it last night and I'll say it again tonight - bloody town planners want sacking. No other major cities have to go through this year in and year out (unless anyone can tell me different?)

I think most other cities are like this every night not just occasionally when there's an incident.

I know people from other places who don't even realise when it's the rush hour in Sheffield. True!

One broken down vehicle shouldn't bring a (supposedly) major city to a complete standstill, that's the point. And if it has (as indeed it has three times now), then there's something wrong.

I was sat in it again, for the second time this week, trying to get to work in town.
Radio Sheffield read out a council statement saying the council had things in place with contractors to prevent a repeat of yesterdays gridlock.
I listened to this whilst sat in a repeat of yesterdays gridlock.

I was sat in it again, for the second time this week, trying to get to work in town.
Radio Sheffield read out a council statement saying the council had things in place with contractors to prevent a repeat of yesterdays gridlock.
I listened to this whilst sat in a repeat of yesterdays gridlock.


All of the blame lies with this council and the incompetent buffoons they employ as planners. Too many roads that are one way and main roads in the town centre that are as wide as the pavements. Too many traffic lights too.

In the Star tonight the Lib Dems (who i dont usually like) are calling for Coun Terry Fox to be sacked, he is the man in charge of transport in this city. What do you think should he be sacked?

I say YES.

All of the blame lies with this council and the incompetent buffoons they employ as planners. Too many roads that are one way and main roads in the town centre that are as wide as the pavements. Too many traffic lights too.

A good example of crap planning is bang outside the Millenium Galleries this is wide enough for a seperate Bus lane(like it use to be) but no it was narrowed so they could make a nice little sq for outside tables in the summer.

Result buses and cars trying to merge into single line then once through this bottle neck the bus lane clears.

I think most other cities are like this every night not just occasionally when there's an incident.

I know people from other places who don't even realise when it's the rush hour in Sheffield. True!

Haha, that's absolutely true! :hihi: I'm still always shocked at the amount of times people here in Shef comment on the heavy traffic - it still just looks light/normal to me ... it used to take me over 80 minutes to get the 3 miles from my house to work back home in Dublin.

I know it's never nice to be stuck in, but it's simply the result of everyone working and shopping in the same small area, and deciding to use private cars whenever possible. :rolleyes:

I think most other cities are like this every night not just occasionally when there's an incident.

Depends on the incident. This should certainly not happen for just a couple of breakdowns.

Yeah, i noticed West St./Division St. (et al) were starting to get snarled up at lunchtime.

Gridlock 2 days on the trot... who wants to start a conspiracy theory? :hihi:



.
I think the council are trying to get people to stay in town later - Maybe they will charge them for street parking till 8-30pm.:thumbsup:

good reason to get yourself a moped/motorbike, cuts down on queues.

Looked up Broad Lane tonight at 4 - traffic fairly slow. Decided to walk home instead of using the bus (I normally do walk - but not in the rain). The first 51 bus to pass me was at Tapton School - about 40 minutes later.

This was at 4 p.m. - I feel sorry for those who left at 5!


G

All this hassle in the rain! It`s not even Snowing, I hate to think what will happen when it does....

Well I got home earlier today than i did yesterday for 2 reasons
1 the bus (69) from Rotherham was that late I got the earlier bus.

2 I got off way before wicker arches and walked!!! by the time I got home I can only guess my bus is still in the place it was before. Cannot belive walking home can be quicker than bus!!!:confused:

I have to say I was warned in advance. We have an office in Quadrant near Sheffield airport and they were e-mailing us telling us of the traffic chaos.

Something has to be done!!!!

In the Star tonight the Lib Dems (who i dont usually like) are calling for Coun Terry Fox to be sacked, he is the man in charge of transport in this city. What do you think should he be sacked?

I say YES.

Well he's little more than a spokesman/mouthpiece for the traffic planners. It's really a "Yes Minister" situation, with the permanent council staff setting the agenda/policy and councillors taking the flak for it.

So where's JoeP now saying it's not teh planner's fault when the majority clearly believe it is?

So where's JoeP now saying it's not teh planner's fault when the majority clearly believe it is?

Planner1 is keeping a low profile tonight :hihi: :hihi:

I think most other cities are like this every night not just occasionally when there's an incident.

I know people from other places who don't even realise when it's the rush hour in Sheffield. True!



Dont be silly. its like this all the time in Sheffield at least other cities have alternative routes out of the city when the main roads are blocked. Here you only have on way out and one way in. its pathetic. 3 nights in a row it has took me more than 1 hour to do a 5 mile journey!! im starting to regret working in the city centre!

There was another breakdown on Park Square roundabout too, around 5.30 - 5.50ish and I was stuck in it yet again! Thankfully without the twins cos that would have been hell.

This is me letting off steam, so ignore it!:hihi:

I've just finished working again (taxi despatching) and tonight as last night, have had to explain 1000 times why taxis are delayed.

As much as people have shouted and insulted us, I've tried f*'ing hard to get people to their Christmas do's.(and back)

But later on, (BTW, how many people have been out tonight?? I think everyone in the City!) it just got worse..

Everything I've done tonight has backfired. I stayed late, so not as to leave the night despatcher lumbered with a gazillion jobs to cover. I screamed at the telephonists, that if I saw ONE single job in town, that wasn't a hotel, I'm kicking some ass, and after coming back from my tea break, there were 80 jobs in the town plot (which ranges from Park Square roundabout to Carver St) ALL HOTELS! (and the Cutlers hall)
I wouldn't normally allow 80 jobs to be queueing in the entire city, and this was one plot of 90 plots I have to deal with.

Thank god I got beer in, and it tastes great. :)

(carry on)

ash

p.s if the lass from Dore, who I covered 1 hour late going out, and 1 hour and half back reads, my apologies. (a free return was the least I could offer)

edit, wrong thread as well I think:hihi:

i was up west st/glossop rd got a missed call from a friend she said that the police had closed off an area around the hen and chickens due to 'an incident' i've looked on local news sites cant see anything though this could have added to an already terrible situation. as for last night i was at the virgin active gym got a taxi to take me to hillsborough took no more than 30 minutes thanks to combining my knowledge of sheffield and the taxi driver's

In the Star tonight the Lib Dems (who i dont usually like) are calling for Coun Terry Fox to be sacked, he is the man in charge of transport in this city. What do you think should he be sacked?

I say YES.



Its the planners that want sacking for messing up the city with their half baked ideas. I wouldn't trust them to plan a childs birthday party never mind somethin as major as planning a road network.

Its the planners that want sacking for messing up the city with their half baked ideas. I wouldn't trust them to plan a childs birthday party never mind somethin as major as planning a road network.


But its the Cabinet member Cllr Fox that is in charge if he can't get the planners to run a decent road network then he is not up to the job so he should go. I think the Lib Dems are right about that

Planner1 is keeping a low profile tonight :hihi: :hihi:

I do occasionally have better things to do!

When a large vehicle breaks down on a major road in the city centre during the evening peak hour, you've got to expect problems. At that time the capacity of the major road network is either at or close to capacity. When the broken down vehicle takes out half of the capacity of the road, problems soon ensue and queues grow very, very quickly.

Any city in the country would have similar problems in the same circumstances. I've heard of similar problems in plenty of other places, they just aren't reported in the local media here. Traffic problems in Leicester etc are hardly news in Sheffield!

I was waiting for a tram last night, and it didnt arrive for over 40 minutes :o :o

loads were going the other way, and when one did arrive it was so full you couldnt get a pencil on it, but 2 mins later another one arrived.

I would have walked it, but it was raining and didnt want to get my hair wet :thumbsup:

But its the Cabinet member Cllr Fox that is in charge if he can't get the planners to run a decent road network then he is not up to the job so he should go. I think the Lib Dems are right about that

The people who run the highway network are doing everything they can to keep traffic moving smoothly and efficiently. There just isn't anything more that can be done. This sort of incident happens only a couple of times per year on average an you just can't legislate for them. It isn't possible to keep building more and more road capacity, so if car ownership and usage continues to rise, problems can only be expected to get worse. Central Government's view is that road pricing (congestion charging) is the way forward.

The people who run the highway network are doing everything they can to keep traffic moving smoothly and efficiently. There just isn't anything more that can be done. This sort of incident happens only a couple of times per year on average an you just can't legislate for them. It isn't possible to keep building more and more road capacity, so if car ownership and usage continues to rise, problems can only be expected to get worse. Central Government's view is that road pricing (congestion charging) is the way forward.

Maybe if you and your mates at the Town Hall havent got such a skill at messing around with stupid no entry, no right left turns and traffic lights that seem to stop us then maybe when this kind of thing happens we can at least move around better.

I have to say Planner1 whenever I read your posts it just makes me realise why the traffic planners in the Town Hall are out of touch and take a "I am the professional take it or leave it attitude"

So don't you agree that at least an independent review of the road network should take place to see if things can improve

loads were going the other way, and when one did arrive it was so full you couldnt get a pencil on it, but 2 mins later another one arrived.

I know dear - I was on it! Got off as soon as I got into town then got on the one you were on (after bumping into you on the platform and mincing about :) ) which was so slow I got off again and went into a public house and sat with a pint watching West Street crawl by (then I proceeded on a pub crawl and got hammered).

Good night dear? Would have come with you but I was already running late.

Maybe if you and your mates at the Town Hall havent got such a skill at messing around with stupid no entry, no right left turns and traffic lights that seem to stop us then maybe when this kind of thing happens we can at least move around better.

I have to say Planner1 whenever I read your posts it just makes me realise why the traffic planners in the Town Hall are out of touch and take a "I am the professional take it or leave it attitude"

So don't you agree that at least an independent review of the road network should take place to see if things can improve

There's no need for independant reviews. Traffic conditions in Sheffield are no different to anywhere else. The methods used here are the same as elsewhere. It's you who is out of touch. The days of unrestrained growth in car usage are coming to an end.

. . Troll score 2 outta 5. Must try harder!!! ;)

Just had a bad day with school runs and daft people in bloody big 4X4s they have no clue how to drive.

Zebra - I saw the truck parked in the right hand lane, at the roundabout, broken down at about 3.30pm, so if you saw it at 5.30pm, thats outrageous. At that time it took ages getting from Bramall Lane roundabout to park square. It must have got much worse as time went on.

Does anyone think the tram in sheffield makes things worse in certain areas?
For example Glossop road junction you can be sat on a bus for a good 10 mins waiting to cross onto West St.
Yet any number of trams go past before the lights have even gone green on Glossop road, and to make things worse you have loads of Taxis / cars doing illegal right hand turns onto the ring road.

Then there is City Road it backs up from Granville RD top to where it joins the tram lines at Park Grange RD then suprise suprise it clears for the tram. Would it be to hard to put an out of city Bus lane on City road (the stretch next to cemertry)then at least the buses wouldnt get caught up in the jam.

These are just two examples im sure there are more.

So don't you agree that at least an independent review of the road network should take place to see if things can improve
Funnily enough the Government has just done exactly what you've asked for. The answer to reducing congestion wasn't road building, it was road pricing.

I do occasionally have better things to do!

When a large vehicle breaks down on a major road in the city centre during the evening peak hour, you've got to expect problems. At that time the capacity of the major road network is either at or close to capacity. When the broken down vehicle takes out half of the capacity of the road, problems soon ensue and queues grow very, very quickly.

Any city in the country would have similar problems in the same circumstances. I've heard of similar problems in plenty of other places, they just aren't reported in the local media here. Traffic problems in Leicester etc are hardly news in Sheffield!

The companies who run these vehicles which break down and cause traffic chaos should be fined. Maybe it will encourage them to keep their vehicles in better working order. Cars can be easily moved to one side in order to maintain traffic flow. HGV's can't.

Trams were horrendous last nightand the driver kept cramming more and more people onto it even though he keep saying to the conductor that the tram was filled to capacity

There's no need for independant reviews. Traffic conditions in Sheffield are no different to anywhere else. The methods used here are the same as elsewhere. It's you who is out of touch. The days of unrestrained growth in car usage are coming to an end.
Such arrogance from people who are supposed to wok for our elected representatives. Get out of your textbooks and live in the real world for a day or two. Tell me how I run my business w/o a car? I transport boxes weighing in total approx 200 kgs between 3 Sheffield businesses. Businesses which employ probably 100 Sheffield people. Maybe you would prefer I relocated outside the city boundaries? Cos I tell you I'm on the verge of it and I'm not the only business in Sheff to be thinking that way. :rant:

The companies who run these vehicles which break down and cause traffic chaos should be fined. Maybe it will encourage them to keep their vehicles in better working order. Cars can be easily moved to one side in order to maintain traffic flow. HGV's can't.

Fined by whom for breaking what law??????? No-one has such powers. It isn't against the law to break down.

Fined by whom for breaking what law??????? No-one has such powers. It isn't against the law to break down.

Obviously theres no law against breaking down. But one indvidual actions coupled with city planning incompetence brings the city of Sheffield to a standstill yet again. Its about high time something should be done; not just to accept its one of those things which is inevitable because of increasing car ownership.

Such arrogance from people who are supposed to wok for our elected representatives. Get out of your textbooks and live in the real world for a day or two. Tell me how I run my business w/o a car? I transport boxes weighing in total approx 200 kgs between 3 Sheffield businesses. Businesses which employ probably 100 Sheffield people. Maybe you would prefer I relocated outside the city boundaries? Cos I tell you I'm on the verge of it and I'm not the only business in Sheff to be thinking that way. :rant:

No, realism. The current view from the Government is that unrestrained growth of traffic cannot continue. That is the real-world policy environment that Local Authorities operate in.

No-one is expecting people who really need motor vehicles to give them up. However, there are a significant minority of people who use private motor vehicles who could use other, more sustainable transport options (walk, cycle, bus, tram, train, car share etc) but chose not to because it's easier to use the car. This will not change until it becomes harder / more expensive and people are obliged to consider other ways.

There doen't have to be a huge modal shift to make a real difference in congestion levels. Look at how little congestion there is over the summer when the schools are on holiday. How much peak hour traffic is due to the school run? 15 - 20%? So if people left their car at home one day per week there wouldn't be anything like the problems we see today. Trouble is, people are attached to their cars so they won't do that unless they are made to. The Government's favoured mechanism for achieving this is by road pricing. Sheffield's powers-that-be don't want to follow that route because they feel it might adversely affect the regeneration of the city.

Templeborough (4pm) to Hillsborough 4:35pm last night - usual for a work day. Tram Hillsborough 6:50pm to University 7:05pm - usual. Answer is if you work in the City Centre use Bus or Trams! (except van / delivery drivers).

How many of the cars stuck last night only had 1 ocupant?

With the increase in car ownership its obvious traffic is going to get worse.

One thing the council could do is improve 'park & ride' they seem to rely on Tram 'park & ride' but the tram is already full from normal commuters - look at the 'P & P' system in Oxford - bus based from North, East, Soth & West. Plenty of waste ground oposite SWFC & on Parkway (can't comment on other parts of the city)

One thing the council could do is improve 'park & ride' they seem to rely on Tram 'park & ride' but the tram is already full from normal commuters - look at the 'P & P' system in Oxford - bus based from North, East, Soth & West. Plenty of waste ground oposite SWFC & on Parkway (can't comment on other parts of the city)

The Council don't deal with Park & Ride. South Yorkshire Passenger Transport Executive (SYPTE) run them.

SYPTE are a Quango of SY councils - so lets not get pedantic:rolleyes:

The council don't appear to be interested in having an integrated transport policy for the city. They just want to make money and don't care about commuters

Why doesn't the council have an automatic system which changes traffic light timings dependent upon traffic rather than on preset times?

If this was combined with adequate policing of yellow box junctions, then traffic would more more freely.

Other cities have this sytem, but I guess it costs money to implement...

Obviously theres no law against breaking down. But one indvidual actions coupled with city planning incompetence brings the city of Sheffield to a standstill yet again. Its about high time something should be done; not just to accept its one of those things which is inevitable because of increasing car ownership.

That's just the point, more problems ARE inevitable if car ownership and use continue to increase. Do you seriously expect to be able to keep pouring more and more vehicles onto already overcrowded roads and somehow magically make it work???? It's simple maths - quart into pint pot, it doesn't work!

Don't trot out this planning incompetence rubbish. The measures that are employed here are the same as everywhere else. The traffic problems here are the same as everywhere else. The solutions are there, you just don't like them because they will mean you can't use your car as much, or it will cost you more.

The council don't appear to be interested in having an integrated transport policy for the city. They just want to make money and don't care about commuters

Actually the Council would welcome the opportunity to have an integrated transport policy. Unfortunately under the current legislative framework it isn't possible.

Actually the Council would welcome the opportunity to have an integrated transport policy. Unfortunately under the current legislative framework it isn't possible.

Balderdash!!!

Absolutely nothing to prevent the Council having whatever policy they want!

Implementing it may be controversial, but the policy can still be produced!!!

How about it?

How have other councils managed to do this if this is against the 'current legislative framework'?

You go to other cities and see park and ride areas that don't require trams - instead they use... buses!!!!

Having said that they have large car parks which the council have provided instead of putting flats on them.

radical eh?

Why doesn't the council have an automatic system which changes traffic light timings dependent upon traffic rather than on preset times?

If this was combined with adequate policing of yellow box junctions, then traffic would more more freely.

Other cities have this sytem, but I guess it costs money to implement...

The Council have an Urban Traffic Control Computer which links all the traffic signals on major routes in the city in the city. Under computer control, signals can run fixed time or demand dependant timing plans. The trouble is, using demand dependant plans, co-ordination becomes very difficult when you have lots of signals close together and the amounts of green time are variable. This is why, particularly on congested networks it's arguably better to run fixed time plans. To make demand dependant plans work most efficiently, you do need to have your vehicle detectors working fully, which is an expensive business as they are often buried loops of cable in the carriageway and are prone to breakage / damage. Keeping them all fully operational is expensive.

There is a system called SCOOT which quite a few cities use, but again, it is necessary to have a high percentage of the traffic signal vehicle detectors working correctly to make it run efficiently. It also is very costly to set up as it's operation has to be validated manually. Sheffield UTC have never been blessed with a sufficiently high budget to implement and run SCOOT, although their computer is compatible. They would argue that properly updated fixed-time plans are almost as efficient and don't involve the high costs.

The Council can't enforce yellow box junctions, that is currently the responsibility of the Police. However, the Government is looking to allow Councils to enforce a range of moving traffic offences by CCTV camera, this includes box-junctions, banned turns, no entries. They are consulting on it early next year, with a view to rolling it out in 12-18 months. Sheffield are looking to start enforcing bus lanes via CCTV cameras next year and I'm sure they'll be keen to take up any new powers the Government offers.

Balderdash!!!

Absolutely nothing to prevent the Council having whatever policy they want!

Implementing it may be controversial, but the policy can still be produced!!!

How about it?

So how are they supposed to integrate public transport, which is provided by private organisations who can run the services where and when they please?

The Council does it's best to work in partnership with the operators, which they are doing on the S10 "Smart" route (Quality Bus Corridor). That is a voluntary partnership agreement. They are also implemeting a Statutory Quality Partnership in North Sheffield, which allows them to specify some quality criteria for bus operators who want to use the facilities the Council provide. However, currently they can't have any control on frequencies and fares.

Throughout the Country, Local Authorities and PTE's are immensely frustrated that they can't deliver integrated public transport BECAUSE the Government won't give them the powers to do it.

It's not only the city centre - Shepcote lane is regularly backed up from the J34 roundabout as far as the airport road, all because the lights at the roundabout only go green for about 5 seconds to allow 1 or 2 cars onto the roundabout that is already at a standstill to give Attercliffe rd a green light( If any cars actually make it onto the roundabout in the first place ).
Problems generally start about 4:30 and it is absolute chaos - and not only at christmas.:rant:

How have other councils managed to do this if this is against the 'current legislative framework'?

You go to other cities and see park and ride areas that don't require trams - instead they use... buses!!!!

Having said that they have large car parks which the council have provided instead of putting flats on them.

radical eh?

As I said, SYPTE are responsible for ALL park & ride provision across South Yorkshire. And where exactly has there been land in Council ownership that was in a good place for park and ride, but now has flats on it??

Actually the Council would welcome the opportunity to have an integrated transport policy. Unfortunately under the current legislative framework it isn't possible.

How does it work in London then?

To make demand dependant plans work most efficiently, you do need to have your vehicle detectors working fully, which is an expensive business as they are often buried loops of cable in the carriageway and are prone to breakage / damage. Keeping them all fully operational is expensive.


Ahhh, it is down to cost - i.e. the council don't wish to spend money on things like this - they would much rather have higher visibility vote-grabbing projects which don't actually contribute to the long term viability of the city.

I wonder how other cities manage? Perhaps by not funding thewhite elephant projects that our council does?

How does it work in London then?
I think the big difference is that London (for some reason) has entirely different legislation and the GLA also happen to own London Transport.

It's not only the city centre - Shepcote lane is regularly backed up from the J34 roundabout as far as the airport road, all because the lights at the roundabout only go green for about 5 seconds to allow 1 or 2 cars onto the roundabout that is already at a standstill to give Attercliffe rd a green light( If any cars actually make it onto the roundabout in the first place ).
Problems generally start about 4:30 and it is absolute chaos - and not only at christmas.:rant:

What you can't see, but the UTC people can, is that at busy times the queues on Attercliffe Common go back beyond Sheffield Arena. That is the MAIN road in / out of Sheffield and so obviously gets more priority.

At busy times, junction 34 is over capacity and queuing inevitably occurs. Then it is necessary to manage the queues and try to balance them to reduce disruption on the wider road network and the Motorway.

How does it work in London then?

As Tony says, in London the legislative framework is entirely different. They can franchise bus services and specify everything about that service, including timetable and fares. Transport Authorities across the country had been hoping the Government were about to allow that to happen outside London, but what the Government has announced seems to fall short of it, relying on "enhanced" partnerships.

London have invested the income from the Congestion charge in boosting public transport and patronage is increasing.

As I said, SYPTE are responsible for ALL park & ride provision across South Yorkshire.

No they are not - get your facts right if you are going to take such a lofty position - the SYPTE website says "The Tesco Supermarket situated on Abbeydale Road, currently offer a park and ride facility at its store."

As far as I know, Tescos are not part of the SYPTE.

The real reasons for a lack of a suitable integrated P&R scheme in Sheffield comes down to the following statement (from the SYPTE Strategy document)

"The overall location of a potential site is determined by the level of potential land availability that exists or as a result of development opportunities such as commercial development i.e. supermarket development, and the potential development that such land has for P&R site development."

"Assess and identify the benefits and cost implications of the site."

Sheffield will never get any more P&R schemes while the demand for housing remains as high as it is.

Therefore, if gridlock / parking permit schemes means that companies relocate (as is starting to happen), the demand for housing declines, together with traffic, thus fulfilling the council objectives...

Planner1,

You missed the point about policy.

Write the policy.
Show us how it can be done ... if the legislation etc. were possible.


Then we might fight to make things possible!!!

How does it work in London then?

Or Bristol, or Oxford, or Mansfield or....

Ahhh, it is down to cost - i.e. the council don't wish to spend money on things like this - they would much rather have higher visibility vote-grabbing projects which don't actually contribute to the long term viability of the city.

I wonder how other cities manage? Perhaps by not funding thewhite elephant projects that our council does?

The Council only receives so much money. The demands on it are always massively more than the budget available. There are always hard decisions to make. The Councillors decide how the available money is distributed. If you think more money shuld be put into transport projects, tell your Councillors. The Officers just have to do their best with what is allocated.

The Council only receives so much money. The demands on it are always massively more than the budget available. There are always hard decisions to make. The Councillors decide how the available money is distributed. If you think more money shuld be put into transport projects, tell your Councillors. The Officers just have to do their best with what is allocated.

I have told my councillors that they should concentrate on schemes / implementations that are wanted and which are useful - not those schemes which aren't - e.g. Sharrow Vale Parking Permit scheme

Planner1,

You missed the point about policy.

Write the policy.
Show us how it can be done ... if the legislation etc. were possible.


Then we might fight to make things possible!!!

The transport policies for South Yorkshire are presented in the Local Transport Plan (LTP2). Which is essentially an expression of what the South Yorkshire Autorities want to achieve over a five year period. This is essentially a bidding document for Central Government funding. So, if SY were to propose radical policies which (a) didn't comply with the Government's agenda, or, (b) meant that SY didn't meet the Government targets and performance indicators, their funding would be cut and in the worst case, Traffic Commissioners would be sent in to take over management of transport matters.

So, they have to work within existing legislative / policy frameworks or they don't get the money!

I have told my councillors that they should concentrate on schemes / implementations that are wanted and which are useful - not those schemes which aren't - e.g. Sharrow Vale Parking Permit scheme

You mean not wanted by you, others might disagree, but that's a different argument for a different thread!

The transport policies for South Yorkshire are presented in the Local Transport Plan (LTP2). Which is essentially an expression of what the South Yorkshire Autorities want to achieve over a five year period. This is essentially a bidding document for Central Government funding. So, if SY were to propose radical policies which (a) didn't comply with the Government's agenda, or, (b) meant that SY didn't meet the Government targets and performance indicators, their funding would be cut and in the worst case, Traffic Commissioners would be sent in to take over management of transport matters.

So, they have to work within existing legislative / policy frameworks or they don't get the money!

Forget the doubletalk.

You said ..

Actually the Council would welcome the opportunity to have an integrated transport policy. Unfortunately under the current legislative framework it isn't possible.

This implies that we do not have an "integrated transport policy".
It also suggests that you know what an "integrated transport policy" should look like and that it would be better than that which we struggle with now.

Why not share it with us, then we can be reassured that you know what you are talking about.

It is not impossible to have an ideal policy that is obstructed by outside factors.

Ahhh, it is down to cost - i.e. the council don't wish to spend money on things like this - they would much rather have higher visibility vote-grabbing projects which don't actually contribute to the long term viability of the city.

I wonder how other cities manage? Perhaps by not funding thewhite elephant projects that our council does?

I'd be interested in knowing what "the white elephant projects that our council does" are. Can you give some examples please.

Forget the doubletalk.

You said ..



This implies that we do not have an "integrated transport policy".
It also suggests that you know what an "integrated transport policy" should look like and that it would be better than that which we struggle with now.

Why not share it with us, then we can be reassured that you know what you are talking about.

It is not impossible to have an ideal policy that is obstructed by outside factors.

The Government has contradictory policies. It says it wants integrated transport, but refuses to allow Local Authorities the tools to provide it. THAT is double talk.

They used to have an integrated transport system in Tyneside. They have the Metro and the local bus services fed into the Metro stops, arriving just before the train arrived so people could seamlessly transfer from one to the other. Unfortunately the Tory Government de-regulated bus services thus ending any chance of integration. The current Government don't see fit to change that situation and integrated transport will be a pipedream untill they change policy.

The Government has contradictory policies. It says it wants integrated transport, but refuses to allow Local Authorities the tools to provide it. THAT is double talk.

They used to have an integrated transport system in Tyneside. They have the Metro and the local bus services fed into the Metro stops, arriving just before the train arrived so people could seamlessly transfer from one to the other. Unfortunately the Tory Government de-regulated bus services thus ending any chance of integration. The current Government don't see fit to change that situation and integrated transport will be a pipedream untill they change policy.

Well then we have to find a way to make the Goverment change their policy don't we. I'll start... I won't vote for any candidate in the next general who doesn't support an integrated transport system. And I'm going to make sure I put my pen to paper and tell Richard Caborn that.

And before anyone says "at least im in my nice warm car with my stereo and air conditioning" it means nowt to a scooter rider.
Mainly cos he/she knows they'll be home in 15 - 20 minutes in their nice warm houses, sat infront of the tele with coffee, regardless of traffic, weather or owt. . !!

Or they'll be laying dead on a mortuary slab after some idiot who can't wait has pulled out and knocked them off their bike.

I'd be interested in knowing what "the white elephant projects that our council does" are. Can you give some examples please.

Who remembers the "recycling city"? What happened to that?

Nice ferris wheel in the city cemtre - pity no-one can park and ride to it!

"The services provided to children and young people in Sheffield has been judged as 'Good' by a national Government inspection" - That is like being called average - which means that you are average...

"Real Magical Christmas in the Botanical Gardens" - In partnership with the organisers and Sheffield City Council, Tates Travel will be providing a FREE Park and Ride bus service to the event from Tesco, Abbeydale Road store’s Park and Ride car park. - So someone else is provding the Magical Christmas, and the council is doing what???

All the time the council are divesting their responsibilities to their benefactors - Graves Park - selling off parts of a charitably donated recreation resource - an illegal act: passing the maintainance of Blackamoor to the SWT who are trying to get something that was donated as recreational ground changed to agricultural ground so they apparently can restrict access to it.

The station 'gateway to the city' - when will that be finished?

Why don't they ever appear to address the matters of importance? Like transpor and business?

Nice one Litotes. :)

And the ludicrous percentage increase in our council tax year this year will be.....

I'd be interested in knowing what "the white elephant projects that our council does" are. Can you give some examples please.

The World Student Games

Listing Park Hill flats

Sheffield City Airport

Woodseats traffic 'improvements'

... to name but a few!

How was the world student games a white elephant?:loopy: - it started the revival of Sheffield after the destruction of the 1980's. I use Hillsborough leisure centre 3 times a week, it's an excellent facility.

Equally the Arena, Ponds Forge & the Stadium are also excellent facilities - Sheffield would be worse without them.

I'd be interested in knowing what "the white elephant projects that our council does" are. Can you give some examples please.

On the highways side?

Putting tactile paving into pavements which are falling to bits....

Putting speed bumps onto roads falling to bits.....

Alterations to junctions which make traffic worse!

Ring Road projects that sit there for months and months...

Bus lanes which make traffic congestion worse when no problem existed for buses before.....

Letting utility companies take all the time they like and do what they please when they dig up the road.....

Paying employees to post garbage on Sheffield Forum when they should be working....

B

Nice ferris wheel in the city cemtre - pity no-one can park and ride to it!

I'm not sure if the council own the ferris wheel. They also have them in Manchester and Liverpool and they are very popular.

Why does there have to be so much agression towards Planner1?

I greatly value the insight which his, and other people on the inside of the planning side of the city give, and find it so frustrating that seemingly pig ignorant people wish to come on here and rant about why they can't drive their car all over the place at the traditionally most congested time of the year, etc..
The council should do this.. the council should do that..

Drive less that's the only answer.

I joined the chaos on Winter Street on this day leading down to the University Roundabout..traffic was queing all the way back through Walkley..took me an hour to reach the roundabout and then got stuck halfway round it for another hour and nothing, abosultely nothing could move or do anything.......eventually reached Broad lane but spent another 40 minutes moving at about 1 inch per minute...lots of cars in both directions had overheated and were being pushed off the road, making it all even worse.....to cap it all, MY car finally overheated, steamed its little head off and conked out near West Bar roundabout, and had to be pushed off the road as well!!!! The AA gave a response time of up to FIVE HOURS so it must have been the same for many many other cars...

That's just the point, more problems ARE inevitable if car ownership and use continue to increase. Do you seriously expect to be able to keep pouring more and more vehicles onto already overcrowded roads and somehow magically make it work???? It's simple maths - quart into pint pot, it doesn't work!

Don't trot out this planning incompetence rubbish. The measures that are employed here are the same as everywhere else. The traffic problems here are the same as everywhere else. The solutions are there, you just don't like them because they will mean you can't use your car as much, or it will cost you more.


Council 'planners' aren't exactly helping the traffic congestion issue with their planning skills either.

One reason that the roads are overcrowded can be put down to road structuring. A good example is Shalesmoor. How long have the roadworks in Shalesmoor been under development ? Too long thats what ! Every afternoon, I walk down the street leading to West Bar roundabout and the traffic is stacked up from University roundabout. Yet as I go pass the development site theres hardly any activity. The council and its 'planners' ought to get a grip and attempt to complete the road development as quickly as possible.

The World Student Games

Listing Park Hill flats

Sheffield City Airport

Woodseats traffic 'improvements'

... to name but a few!

Our council really is **** :o :o

How about a Simpsons-esque monorail project :thumbsup:

Our council really is **** :o :o

How about a Simpsons-esque monorail project :thumbsup:

Supertram anyone? :rolleyes:

Goldenfleece and everyone else for that matter, I'm not being funny, but if you were having all that hassle stuck for hours in the city centre doesn't common sense tell you to ditch the car on a side street as soon as possible and go grab a coffee for an hour or two?

Supertram anyone? :rolleyes:

But the tram still gets stuck in traffic. Overhead monorail wouldn't. :)

Goldenfleece and everyone else for that matter, I'm not being funny, but if you were having all that hassle stuck for hours in the city centre doesn't common sense tell you to ditch the car on a side street as soon as possible and go grab a coffee for an hour or two?

On a Friday afternoon?! No point mate, the traffic would still be just as bad, or worse, when they came back.. At least the coffee would keep them awake though.

ditch the car on a side street as soon as possible and go grab a coffee for an hour or two?

A bit difficult, since all the side streets are now no entry/one-way/restricted access/no parking (except for residents)/buses-taxis-bicycles only etc.

And we'd be lining the council's pockets when paying for the "hour or two" extra parking:rolleyes:.

Bit of a no-win situation, I guess.

There's no need for independant reviews. Traffic conditions in Sheffield are no different to anywhere else. The methods used here are the same as elsewhere. It's you who is out of touch. The days of unrestrained growth in car usage are coming to an end.

Here YOU go again..you know best no independent views are useful to you..oh no the traffic planners in Sheffield are the worlds best....erm excuse me what have the last few days shown...that you have helped to cock up are road network.

Also I didn't mention anything about the growth in car use I want an independent review of some of the daft decisions you have taken on our road network.

If you know best and feel they will stand up to outside scrutiny then why say no.

Goldenfleece and everyone else for that matter, I'm not being funny, but if you were having all that hassle stuck for hours in the city centre doesn't common sense tell you to ditch the car on a side street as soon as possible and go grab a coffee for an hour or two?

Do you know it was what I was thinking, and what many others had done, that is dump the car on the pavement and nip into FAGANS on broad lane for a coffee or two and read the paper....at that point the car started shuddering and cutting out, and the pavements were all full of abandoned cars at that point, so I had no choice but to free wheel it down to the little roundabout by Kwik Fit inch by inch in the traffic and push it off the road and do exactly that while I waited for the AA.

As someone posted earlier, everyone seems to have a go at planner1, but he/she is coming in here in their own time, and gives us a chance to hear 'the other side'.

As someone posted earlier, everyone seems to have a go at planner1, but he/she is coming in here in their own time, and gives us a chance to hear 'the other side'.


Maybe if "Planner1" had a little bit of a change of attitude, people would "back off" a little (see post below for an example of how much contempt "Planner1" holds the general public in). But the continual "we know we're right" mentality of the council (and workforce) simply antagonises people to the nth degree:(.

BTW. "Planner1" no longer works for Sheffield Council (now wreaking chaos - where once was calm - in Manchester - IIRC:D).


They should be listening to us, not the other way round:rolleyes:.

On the highways side?

Putting tactile paving into pavements which are falling to bits....

Putting speed bumps onto roads falling to bits.....

Alterations to junctions which make traffic worse!

Ring Road projects that sit there for months and months...

Bus lanes which make traffic congestion worse when no problem existed for buses before.....

Letting utility companies take all the time they like and do what they please when they dig up the road.....

Paying employees to post garbage on Sheffield Forum when they should be working....

B

You haven't a clue have you?

Tactile pavements - this is a national requirement, it's one of the Government's best value indicators, so the Council HAVE to put them in or loose funding.

Utility companies have legal rights to dig up the road, the Council can't stop them. The Council is very active in co-ordinating them adn trying to minimise disruption.

Ring Road - major road projects in city centres take a long time time to complete because they're very complex. The job is being done by contractors who have a vested interest in doing the job as quickly as possible, it's being done as quickly as it can be.

Bus Lanes - congestion is measured by the Government in terms of PERSON delays, so getting 70 people on a bus to the front of a queue past a few single occupant cars is actually CUTTING congestion!

Posting on the Forum in work time - (a) I don't work for the Council anymore, I post "garbage" on here in my own time for free.....just like you.
(b) When I did work for the Council, publicity and media relations were a part of my job, so it was perfectly legitimate for me to communicate with people on the Forum in work time.

You haven't a clue have you?

Tactile pavements - this is a national requirement, it's one of the Government's best value indicators, so the Council HAVE to put them in or loose funding.


But... What is the point in installing them, when the surrounding pavements are in such a state of disrepair? Seems like Bourne has more of a clue than the supposedly "clued up" and "educated" people who work/ed for the council.

Keep on digging:thumbsup::hihi:

The point is to designate crossing locations to the blind / partially sighted.

The point is to designate crossing locations to the blind / partially sighted.

Who have already fallen over the raised/broken flagstones surrounding the "tactile paving areas".

I think this is rapidly becoming THE major issue in Sheffield and the problems have been made far worse by the council making big mistskes with road planning in the city look at woodseats as an example how has that made congestion better?

I also think other major citys are better than sheffield.

I quite often travel to leeds and although it has its share of problems at least it does have a proper inner ring road that keeps traffic moving (the loop)

from the star

Lib Dem leader Paul Scriven said: "The congestion and mayhem that ensued in our city is a direct result of the haphazard and ridiculous traffic planning decisions that have been taken by the council.
"There are some crazy one-way systems, no right and left turns, one way systems which create mayhem on a good night but are catastrophic when a minor breakdown occurs

Think that sums up how many people feel.

The point is to designate crossing locations to the blind / partially sighted.

Exactly. The Government requires Councils to provide these facilities and it is one of the Best Value Performance Indicators. If Councils don't achieve very high levels of compliance with these, their funding is cut.

[QUOTE=Fudbeer]I think this is rapidly becoming THE major issue in Sheffield and the problems have been made far worse by the council making big mistskes with road planning in the city look at woodseats as an example how has that made congestion better?


QUOTE]

If you'd been at the public meeting to discuss Woodseats, you'd have seen the figures that PROVE that the schem has improved journey times for ALL forms of transport.

The idea of the scheme is to hold congestion back at the extremeties of the area and only allow an amount of traffic through which will not clog the road up in the central area. This is called "gating". Preventing blockages and keping traffic flowing smoothly reduces overall journey times.

The Council have Automatic Number Plate Recognition cameras all along that corridor from Meadowhead to London Road. They're very accurate and the figures obtained show conclusively that journey times have improved.

That scheme also provided new pedestrian crossings, MORE parking spaces and better parking turnover in Woodseats centre. The Woodseats scheme provided benefits for everyone.

The traffic problems which were experienced were due to roadworks further down the corridor in the Heeley Tidal Flow system, which meant the Tidal Flow System wasn't working as normal. As soon as the roadworks were finished, the Tidal Flow System was put back to normal and journey times improved to levels which were significantly better than before. Just because the queues (which were always there) have been relocated, people think they're longer.

This is called "gating". Preventing blockages and keping traffic flowing smoothly reduces overall journey times.

Indeed.

However, though it works for dumb farm animals, it causes problems when you're dealing with creatures with more intelligence than you're average sheep (though the council treat us as such).


I see you completely missed:

from the star

Lib Dem leader Paul Scriven said: "The congestion and mayhem that ensued in our city is a direct result of the haphazard and ridiculous traffic planning decisions that have been taken by the council.
"There are some crazy one-way systems, no right and left turns, one way systems which create mayhem on a good night but are catastrophic when a minor breakdown occurs

How convenient:rolleyes:

...you'd have seen the figures that PROVE that the schem has improved journey times for ALL forms of transport.

99% of all statistics...... :hihi: :hihi:

Just like the woman who'se cutting 250 care jobs for the elderly and has the cheek to call it a "good news story"

I must admit to being a little cross with the Council on Friday - a journey that would normally take at most 30 minutes took us 2 hours.

I have been told that (depending who you listen to) the delays were caused by broken down vehicles on Sheaf Street, traffic signal failures on Sheaf Street, a multiple vehicle road traffic collision on the Parkway or a road traffic collision in Attercliffe.

Perhaps it's a combination of one or more of the above - I'm concerned that Sheffield has introduced so many restrictions to traffic flows that it no longer has the resilience to deal with an isolated failure of the system.

By restrictions to traffic flows, I'm referring to bus lanes and gates, traffic signal timings, road narrowings in the name of safety, and the sheer number of buses with only one or two people on them.

I am also referring to that other restriction to traffic flow not under Council control - that of other motorists. It doesn't take a lot of sense to make sure that junctions and traffic lights are not obstructed when you're queuing. It is frustrating when you are stuck in a long queue but the selfish behaviour of other drivers only makes it worse.

IMO the reason why people are pretty peeved it that although the council can't build more and more roads indefinatly (I think most sensible people realise this) it is obvious that car usage is growing slightly year by year. So why the hell are the council hell bent on REDUCING capacity on our city's roads with their half baked 'city dreams', ideas and improvements.

99% of all statistics...... :hihi: :hihi:

Just like the woman who'se cutting 250 care jobs for the elderly and has the cheek to call it a "good news story"

This is exactly what I was referring to earlier. The Council do a good job, make significant improvements and get hard evidence to prove it, yet still people like you make desparaging remarks despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up what you're saying.

Goldenfleece and everyone else for that matter, I'm not being funny, but if you were having all that hassle stuck for hours in the city centre doesn't common sense tell you to ditch the car on a side street as soon as possible and go grab a coffee for an hour or two?

Much as i would have loved to, dont think boss would be too pleased

This is exactly what I was referring to earlier. The Council do a good job, make significant improvements and get hard evidence to prove it, yet still people like you make desparaging remarks despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up what you're saying.

I don't need any fancy reports written by people with a vested interest in the results. I've got my own two eyes :shocked:

BTW the above quote is laughable and shows how out of touch you people are with your employers and masters (the people of Sheffield)

Perhaps it's a combination of one or more of the above - I'm concerned that Sheffield has introduced so many restrictions to traffic flows that it no longer has the resilience to deal with an isolated failure of the system.

By restrictions to traffic flows, I'm referring to bus lanes and gates, traffic signal timings, road narrowings in the name of safety, and the sheer number of buses with only one or two people on them.

I am also referring to that other restriction to traffic flow not under Council control - that of other motorists. It doesn't take a lot of sense to make sure that junctions and traffic lights are not obstructed when you're queuing. It is frustrating when you are stuck in a long queue but the selfish behaviour of other drivers only makes it worse.

This is absolutely right, the system in rush hour is in a critical condition, just one incident anywhere on the network will lock traffic solid.

I think the problem is that many of the "improvements" have only been considered in isolation, and effect of it on the system as a whole is not simulated or considered.

It would take a lot to fix this now, but maybe one thing that might work is for a lot of the blocked-off roads, which previously allowed safety-valve kind of relief, to be blocked by bollards that could be lowered in extreme circumstances and allow capacity to increase temporarily

This is absolutely right, the system in rush hour is in a critical condition, just one incident anywhere on the network will lock traffic solid.

I think the problem is that many of the "improvements" have only been considered in isolation, and effect of it on the system as a whole is not simulated or considered.

It would take a lot to fix this now, but maybe one thing that might work is for a lot of the blocked-off roads, which previously allowed safety-valve kind of relief, to be blocked by bollards that could be lowered in extreme circumstances and allow capacity to increase temporarily

The road system in most towns and cities is over capacity at rush hours and the same problems do happen there when vehicles break down etc.

Changes to the major highway network are modelled before they're implemented to check the impact, they aren't treated in isolation.

It isn't practical to leave a network of roads which could be opened just in case of problems occurring. You can't plan a city around the possibility of a vehicle breaking down and clogging the ring road once or twice a year! In any case, when the ring road blocks completely in both directions, cutting across the middle of town would do you no good because the other end will be clogged too.

I have been told that (depending who you listen to) the delays were caused by broken down vehicles on Sheaf Street, traffic signal failures on Sheaf Street, a multiple vehicle road traffic collision on the Parkway or a road traffic collision in Attercliffe.

Perhaps it's a combination of one or more of the above - I'm concerned that Sheffield has introduced so many restrictions to traffic flows that it no longer has the resilience to deal with an isolated failure of the system.



The problems in the city on Friday were caused (as they usually are) by a combination of events:

It was raining - when it rains the capacity of traffic signals (and other junctions) drops by about 10% because people leave longer gaps and do not accelerate as quickly.

It was one of the busiest days of the year with lots of people coming into the city to do Christmas shopping, go to parties etc.

The system was close to capacity, but coping, when a 17.5 tonne lorry broke down on Sheaf Street just before the stop line at Park Square. Cutting the capacity of the Ring Road by about 30%.

At the same time as this was going on there was a serious accident near the Meadowhall Transport Interchange - two cars were written off and one driver was trapped. Most police resources were concentrated on sorting that one out.

The team at UTC read the name of the owner from the side of the truck and contacted them to check they were arranging recovery and get the phone number of the driver. The company were having trouble getting a recovery vehicle so the Council rang a number of companies and eventually found one which could send out a vehicle. The company also managed to get a recovery vehicle and UTC found out the phone number of the driver from the recovery company.

Meanwhile another car broke down on Sheaf Street outside the station, a bus tried to get round it and ended up blocking the whole road. Fortunately a lorry driver stuck behind the bus got out and helped push the car out of the way.

As the recovery vehicle was travelling towards Park Square UTC kept in touch advising the driver of the least congested route, trying to clear traffic in front of him. When he came in sight of the CCTV cameras they were able to advise him which lane to use and when to change lanes to get there as quickly as possible.

The lorry was recovered and Sheaf Street cleared by about 3.30, but by this time the evening peak traffic had begun to build up, so the queues that had developed did not have time to clear. For the rest of the peak there were a string of less serious accidents and break downs. There were a number inbound and outbound on the Parkway and another broken down car on the Ring Road near Staples - that was not shifted until one of the Council senior managers walked there and helped push it off the road (something that did not seem to occur to the hundreds of drivers who had squeezed past in the time it was stuck).

So another day when a severely stretched road network could not cope with the demand imposed on it when a combination of things go wrong.

dan_999uk has a point about the resilience of the network. But all the "restrictions" that have been brought in are trying to improve things for people as a whole. The Council is trying to balance all the competing demands for limited road space from motorists, bus passengers, cyclists, and pedestrians, to provide for the disabled and infirm, to reduce accidents and to promote economic competitiveness. There have to be compromises - when you are affected by one it is not "incompetence" its just that when budgets are limited it is impossible to satisfy everyone.

One way of improving resilience is to complete another section of the Inner Ring Road - which is what is going on between Shalesmoor and the Wicker - and is one of the reasons the network is on a knife edge at the moment. It's being built by one of the largest private contractors in the country - they have every incentive to get it done as quickly as possible - but a scheme as complex as this cannot be built in a few weeks, and you cannot build a new road through an existing city without causing disruption.

I don't need any fancy reports written by people with a vested interest in the results. I've got my own two eyes :shocked:

BTW the above quote is laughable and shows how out of touch you people are with your employers and masters (the people of Sheffield)

Actually, the people of Sheffield aren't my employers. I work in Manchester.

Actually, the people of Sheffield aren't my employers. I work in Manchester.

I never said that they were. I was making a general statement about you people not you.

Does anybody who drives a car in Sheffield regularly really believe that the councils actions on our roads have helped reduced congestion?

Does anybody who drives a car in Sheffield regularly really believe that the councils actions on our roads have helped reduced congestion?

Without factoring in Woodseats (well documented elsewhere in SF) I will reserve judgement until the inner ring road is complete. That final Shalesmoor/Wicker section may well improve things greatly - but then again......

This is exactly what I was referring to earlier. The Council do a good job, make significant improvements and get hard evidence to prove it, yet still people like you make desparaging remarks despite having no evidence whatsoever to back up what you're saying.



From the star

Lib Dem leader Paul Scriven said: "The congestion and mayhem that ensued in our city is a direct result of the haphazard and ridiculous traffic planning decisions that have been taken by the council.
"There are some crazy one-way systems, no right and left turns, one way systems which create mayhem on a good night but are catastrophic when a minor breakdown occurs



So what about Cllr Scriven then you seem to ignore what he says. He must know what goes on in the Town Hall and he dosen't seem to impressed with what is going on. He seems to have his finger on the pulse on this one.

From the star

Lib Dem leader Paul Scriven said: "The congestion and mayhem that ensued in our city is a direct result of the haphazard and ridiculous traffic planning decisions that have been taken by the council.
"There are some crazy one-way systems, no right and left turns, one way systems which create mayhem on a good night but are catastrophic when a minor breakdown occurs



So what about Cllr Scriven then you seem to ignore what he says. He must know what goes on in the Town Hall and he dosen't seem to impressed with what is going on. He seems to have his finger on the pulse on this one.

Please don't be niave. Cllr Scriven is attempting to make political capital out of the situation which arisen. He is perfectly entitled to do that of course.
Note the absence of any commitment by Cllr Scriven to change anything. He's just carping from the side-lines without committing his party to any alternative suggestions. It's called megaphone politics. You complain by shouting loudly, but avoid saying what you'd do about the problem!

Please don't be niave. Cllr Scriven is attempting to make political capital out of the situation which arisen. He is perfectly entitled to do that of course.
Note the absence of any commitment by Cllr Scriven to change anything. He's just carping from the side-lines without committing his party to any alternative suggestions. It's called megaphone politics. You complain by shouting loudly, but avoid saying what you'd do about the problem!


I think if you read the Star and listened to radio Sheffield over the last few days the Lib Dems have said that they will have an independent root and branch review of the highway network to reverse some of the decisions above.

Why cant you admit Red that the council have screwed up with Sheffield Road network

No doubt the situation will improve when the relief road opens, but one thing always bothers me - the council and its representatives will always say how much better it would be if people got out of their cars and used the buses.

However, for anyone who already owns, taxes and insures a car, it is far more expensive to use a bus, not to mention a lot more inconvenient.

Then the council will plead, its not our fault, we can't control bus fares. Now that is certainly true, but given that fact, why do they underpin their whole transport strategy on something that they cannot control?

Oh dear!

Caused by traffic light failure!

http://www.sheffieldtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1935093

Attempted to get out of the NCP on Wellington Street last Friday evening. God knows what was going on in the direction of West St / Division St but Wellington St was gridlocked. The idiot who had exited the car park in front of me wanted the right hand lane and decided to block the left hand lane until someone let him in. Ten minutes later I finally suggested that he was probably now responsible for gridlocking the whole of Charter Row.

On reconsidering his course of action he decided to turn left off Wellington St, left again, go round the back of Debenhams to Moor foot, both of us flew through. So a) what was going on in the first place? and c) WHY DID HE HAVE TO BE IN FRONT OF ME? :rant:

Oh dear!

Caused by traffic light failure!

http://www.sheffieldtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1935093

Unfortunately, the Star are completely wrong about this. There was no traffic light failure on Friday. We think they may be passing on a comment by a Police officer who wasn't aware that UTC were changing the signal settings at Park Square to try and help the recovery vehicle get through.

Unfortunately, the Star are completely wrong about this. There was no traffic light failure on Friday. We think they may be passing on a comment by a Police officer who wasn't aware that UTC were changing the signal settings at Park Square to try and help the recovery vehicle get through.

so what did cause this then?

so what did cause this then?

See my post #148 above

so what did cause this then?

See Engineer1951's previous post!!!!!!!!!!!!

ENGINEER 1951's said

The problems in the city on Friday were caused (as they usually are) by a combination of events:

It was raining - when it rains the capacity of traffic signals (and other junctions) drops by about 10% because people leave longer gaps and do not accelerate as quickly.

It was one of the busiest days of the year with lots of people coming into the city to do Christmas shopping, go to parties etc.

The system was close to capacity, but coping, when a 17.5 tonne lorry broke down on Sheaf Street just before the stop line at Park Square. Cutting the capacity of the Ring Road by about 30%.

At the same time as this was going on there was a serious accident near the Meadowhall Transport Interchange - two cars were written off and one driver was trapped. Most police resources were concentrated on sorting that one out.



Oh I say rain and a broken down lorry, I know it was the wrong type of rain!!!!

Now let see does the fact that you and planner 1 have been happy over the last number of years messing around with street clusures, no left/right turns etc not contribute to the fact that the road capacity has been reduced?

Oh I say rain and a broken down lorry, I know it was the wrong type of rain!!!!

Now let see does the fact that you and planner 1 have been happy over the last number of years messing around with street clusures, no left/right turns etc not contribute to the fact that the road capacity has been reduced?


Rain reduces the capacity of the network whatever size it is, and a broken down lorry in one lane of a three lane road reduces its capacity by at least a third. Everyone's road network is close to capacity at this time of year, and they all struggle when accidents and breakdowns occur. Some people coming to a meeting from Leeds a couple of days ago called one of my colleagues to say they might be late because the traffic was bad, they called again 90 minutes later to cancel the meeting because they still hadn't got out of Leeds.

Of course most of the street clusures (sic), no left/right turns etc. have been dreamed up by us just to reduce the network capacity, its nothing to do with implementing Council and Government policy to improve conditions for shoppers in the city centre, help pedestrians trying to cross increasingly busy roads and maintain the viability of public transport so that all those people using buses and trams don't get into cars instead and get in the way of all the existing car users.

If you want to change the way things are, get elected to the Council, persuade enough like-minded people to get elected as well so that you have a majority, and then you can set the policy which we will implement for you. Oh, don't forget to do the same in parliament as well so that the Government doesn't cut off all your grant because you are not following national policy.

Of course most of the street clusures (sic)

Again we see yet another attempt to belittle a user.

The you wonder why you and your cronies are held in such contempt.

Accept you're partly responsible (closing side streets, making deranged one-way systems, 24hour bus lanes:loopy:.....) and treat the people who pay your wages, with a little more respect:(

Again we see yet another attempt to belittle a user.

The you wonder why you and your cronies are held in such contempt.

Accept you're partly responsible (closing side streets, making deranged one-way systems, 24hour bus lanes:loopy:.....) and treat the people who pay your wages, with a little more respect:(

And of course you treat the Council Officers with respect don't you? What comes around, goes around comes to mind.

Rain reduces the capacity of the network whatever size it is, and a broken down lorry in one lane of a three lane road reduces its capacity by at least a third. Everyone's road network is close to capacity at this time of year, and they all struggle when accidents and breakdowns occur. Some people coming to a meeting from Leeds a couple of days ago called one of my colleagues to say they might be late because the traffic was bad, they called again 90 minutes later to cancel the meeting because they still hadn't got out of Leeds.

Of course most of the street clusures (sic), no left/right turns etc. have been dreamed up by us just to reduce the network capacity, its nothing to do with implementing Council and Government policy to improve conditions for shoppers in the city centre, help pedestrians trying to cross increasingly busy roads and maintain the viability of public transport so that all those people using buses and trams don't get into cars instead and get in the way of all the existing car users.

If you want to change the way things are, get elected to the Council, persuade enough like-minded people to get elected as well so that you have a majority, and then you can set the policy which we will implement for you. Oh, don't forget to do the same in parliament as well so that the Government doesn't cut off all your grant because you are not following national policy.


Well from the reading the Star I don't think I have to, all i need to do is vote for another party at the Local elections. It seems the Lib Dems want to review the network so maybe they will get you to work different and treat us as customers and not like an inconvienece

And of course you treat the Council Officers with respect don't you? What comes around, goes around comes to mind.

Impertinent questioning of a public servant is wholly different to belittling a fellow forum user. :rant:

I read Andy Sturrock's article in the Star tonight where he says "The basic reason for gridlock chaos in Sheffield is obvious - a lack of alternative routes for traffic when an incident occurs. It is not "drivers blocking junctions" or any other excuse that seems to be trotted out at times like this." He goes on to lay the blame entirely at the City Councils door.

Excuse me! I walk along Ecclesall Road most evenings and see nearly every night motorists BLOCKING the Somerfield Street junction with their selfish attitude that prevents other motorists from moving. I occaisionally drive along Psalter Lane and see motorists, when turning left at the traffic lights at the junction with Cowlishaw road, not leaving enough room to allow motorist going straight on to pass by them on the left hand side.

When are these self righteous motorists going to take some of the repsonsibility for their own actions instead of just blaming the City Council. Everone has a part to play in solving this major issue and crap driving must take some of the blame.

Attempted to get out of the NCP on Wellington Street last Friday evening. God knows what was going on in the direction of West St / Division St but Wellington St was gridlocked. The idiot who had exited the car park in front of me wanted the right hand lane and decided to block the left hand lane until someone let him in. Ten minutes later I finally suggested that he was probably now responsible for gridlocking the whole of Charter Row.

On reconsidering his course of action he decided to turn left off Wellington St, left again, go round the back of Debenhams to Moor foot, both of us flew through. So a) what was going on in the first place? and c) WHY DID HE HAVE TO BE IN FRONT OF ME? :rant:


Another example of a crap driver

I read Andy Sturrock's article in the Star tonight where he says "The basic reason for gridlock chaos in Sheffield is obvious - a lack of alternative routes for traffic when an incident occurs. It is not "drivers blocking junctions" or any other excuse that seems to be trotted out at times like this." He goes on to lay the blame entirely at the City Councils door.

Excuse me! I walk along Ecclesall Road most evenings and see nearly every night motorists BLOCKING the Somerfield Street junction with their selfish attitude that prevents other motorists from moving. I occaisionally drive along Psalter Lane and see motorists, when turning left at the traffic lights at the junction with Cowlishaw road, not leaving enough room to allow motorist going straight on to pass by them on the left hand side.

When are these self righteous motorists going to take some of the repsonsibility for their own actions instead of just blaming the City Council. Everone has a part to play in solving this major issue and crap driving must take some of the blame.

Yes, there are always problems with selfish drivers blocking junctions, but there seems to be general agreement that the basic problem is a lack of ability for any vehicles to route round a problem such as a broken down vehicle.

Apparently according to today's Telegraph, Jan Wilson has called a "summit" with all interested parties to come up with ideas. Hopefully this will be constructive and not just accusation and counter-accusation.

Modern computer models should allow the traffic engineers to simulate the current road network, and create for themselves scenarios reproducing what happened last week. I've been told that they do this already, but that would imply either their simulations are faulty or they just have no solutions for what happened.

If you get a simulation that works you should be able to experiment with different "what-if" cases and solutions.

I dread to think how Sheffield would cope if the economy actually did take off, like Leeds or Manchester. We'd probably see gridlock 3 or 4 times a week.

[QUOTE=MichaelJP]
Modern computer models should allow the traffic engineers to simulate the current road network, and create for themselves scenarios reproducing what happened last week. I've been told that they do this already, but that would imply either their simulations are faulty or they just have no solutions for what happened.
QUOTE]

There just aren't any solutions when a vehicle that can't easily be shifted breaks down on your inner ring road during the evening rush hour at the time of year when traffic is at it's worst. In most major towns and cities, their highway networks around the city centre are operating at or near capacity diuring peak hours. Once a broken down vehicle has taken away a third or half of that capacity, there is inevitably queuing which grows at a vary fast rate. Just how do you practically expect to keep some capacity "in reserve" for just such an occasion (usualy a couple of times a year)???? Have you seen anything resembling that sort of facility in other cities? No, because they have the same problems we do and there aren't any easy solutions.

And of course you treat the Council Officers with respect don't you?

When it's deserved, yes, I do actually!


What comes around, goes around comes to mind.

The difference being......

I get banned, anyone in the employ of the council doesn't.

Very strange:rolleyes:


Well from the reading the Star I don't think I have to, all i need to do is vote for another party at the Local elections.

Correctomondo:thumbsup:.


Impertinent questioning of a public servant is wholly different to belittling a fellow forum user. :rant:

Don't worry about it.

Gives them a feeling of superiority. They're basically bullies:mad:.

There just aren't any solutions when a vehicle that can't easily be shifted breaks down on your inner ring road during the evening rush hour at the time of year when traffic is at it's worst. In most major towns and cities, their highway networks around the city centre are operating at or near capacity diuring peak hours. Once a broken down vehicle has taken away a third or half of that capacity, there is inevitably queuing which grows at a vary fast rate. Just how do you practically expect to keep some capacity "in reserve" for just such an occasion (usualy a couple of times a year)???? Have you seen anything resembling that sort of facility in other cities? No, because they have the same problems we do and there aren't any easy solutions.

But queueing grows at double the rate if you've "downgraded" a dual carriageway to single to create a huge pavement area.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how much difference the new Shalesmoor/Wicker relief road makes.

But queueing grows at double the rate if you've "downgraded" a dual carriageway to single to create a huge pavement area.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how much difference the new Shalesmoor/Wicker relief road makes.


Voice your concerns.

The council are now, apparently, prepared to listen to logic.

Have a look at The Star (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?sectionid=58&articleid=1943174) for more info:)

I read Andy Sturrock's article in the Star tonight where he says "The basic reason for gridlock chaos in Sheffield is obvious - a lack of alternative routes for traffic when an incident occurs.

Andy Sturrock actually works for a consultant who looks after the Motorways and trunk roads in Yorkshire on behalf of the Highways Agency... I'm sure he would love to answer all your questions on traffic jams on the M1 every night and why the HA has seen fit to put traffic lights at the bottom of the slip roads to prevent local drivers getting onto the motorways ;¬) Andy's solutions might sound good in concept, but knowing Andy as I do, I suspect there was a little tongue in cheek with his letter ;)

When are these self righteous motorists going to take some of the repsonsibility for their own actions instead of just blaming the City Council. Everone has a part to play in solving this major issue and crap driving must take some of the blame.

Very well said Steve, perhaps there is hope for common sense on this forum afterall

Modern computer models should allow the traffic engineers to simulate the current road network, and create for themselves scenarios reproducing what happened last week. I've been told that they do this already, but that would imply either their simulations are faulty or they just have no solutions for what happened. If you get a simulation that works you should be able to experiment with different "what-if" cases and solutions.

There are several modelling solutions on the market these days. The current trend (for want of a better word) is for micro-simulations, these include AIMSUN, Paramics and VISSIM, each has it's strengths and weaknesses and I've never professed to be an anything of an expert in any or claim to be happy with the results of any....

However, these tools are based upon the logic of driver behavior and often cannot model certain situations - a model will contain parameters for road geometry, traffic flows at different times of the day, signal timings... quite literary 10,000's of parameters to be tweaked on even a simple model of say a section of the ring road. The original data can also be flawed, the seed used to generate traffic can often conflict with the next seed in the next model, making one "run" work perfectly and the next run fail miserably.

It's a real skill to get these things to work correctly and getting a model to represent exactly what's currently on the ground can appear to be easy, yet I'd suggest that very very few experienced transportation engineers can get the software to work well... perhaps nationwide in their 10's. Also simple things like a new retail development can chance the traffic flows slightly, then another and another and another and before you finish the model, it's out of date...

Even though the software developers claim that it's easy to change parameters in real time, changing one situtation would actually require the amendment of 10's if not 100's of induvidual variables to ensure you get the right affect... So modelling "what if's" whilst possible, can take many 10's of man hours to do each one...

I note your comment earlier about resileance and commented on just the same with the fog issues accross southern England, perhaps if we had extra resileance in the rail network, all the air traffic could have been shifted to the alternative mode... however, would we "the public" want to pay for that extra safety net ?

Agreed.
would we "the public" want to pay for that extra safety net ?Quite.

An extra hour sat in traffic 3 times a year, or another couple of hundred quid on your council tax? A line has to be drawn and frankly an hour or two sat in a traffic jam is neither here nor there to 99.99% of people if they are honest.

An extra hour sat in traffic 3 times a year, or another couple of hundred quid on your council tax? A line has to be drawn and frankly an hour or two sat in a traffic jam is neither here nor there to 99.99% of people if they are honest.

Indeed. However, the problem is, that the council promised to take action last year after the city was stopped by a broken down bus. They (obviously) failed in this promise.

Time to vote for a party with a little more thought/respect for the people who (ultimately) pay their wages (ie. any party that is not Liebore)..

But it isn't in their power to do anything about it, never mind make any promises. Unless you build a spare ring road 'just in case', traffic congestion is a fact of life and managing it is as much as anyone can do.

Be honest, do you ever take any notice of such promises. If you remember that politicians always adopt a "news today chip-wrappers tomorrow" attitude and you won't be disappointed. There's no point getting cutting up about it. ;)

But it isn't in their power to do anything about it, never mind make any promises.

Therefore, why promise what they can't fulfil (which they have done)?
Were they lying when they promised (last year) that this kind of thing would not be allowed to happen again? I think so (especially if what you say is true - ie they don't have the powers to do anything about the situation)!:mad:


Be honest, do you ever take any notice of such promises.

Yes. I personally do. Why shouldn't I? Unless you're saying politicians are liars?

Maybe if other people took such "promises" seriously, and held the makers accountable, then they'd twice think before making/breaking such promises.

False promises to the electorate is a form of corruption/lie (IMO) and, as such, has no place in politics (either local, national or international).

Come on sccsux, I don't believe that you are that naive for one moment. You just like slagging off the Council at any opportunity. ;)

Come on sccsux, I don't believe that you are that naive for one moment.

Believe what you want of me. I care not;).

I do, however, hold a promise to be binding.

If I make a promise, I keep it. To break it would be wrong! Which is why I seldom make them. This is also why I expect promises made to me (by whoever) to be kept.


You just like slagging off the Council at any opportunity. ;)

I disagree (to a point). I will "slag off" anything that is inherently wrong/unjust. Promising something you have no intention of doing is wrong.

I will also "stand up for" anything that is right and proper. Breaking promises, however, is not on the list of "good things to do":thumbsup:.

More and more we hear promises from the council which aren't delivered.

Isn't this the time to look to a new council which either delivers their promises, or at least doesn't make promises the can't keep?

From recent evidence, this council does not appear to listen to the electorate and just does what it thinks is best, not what the people who elected it want... not what they were elected for!

Indeed. However, the problem is, that the council promised to take action last year after the city was stopped by a broken down bus. They (obviously) failed in this promise.

To be fair, it's impossible to make this promise, there will be many situations in any given year where a broken down vehicle, power failure or other such works will push the network to the limit, whats to say that this hasn't been the case on a regular basis since last year, and a "gridlock" has been avoided by UTC Traffic Control

Time to vote for a party with a little more thought/respect for the people who (ultimately) pay their wages (ie. any party that is not Liebore)..

Which all due respect to the other two major parties... The Tories (the only opposition to Labour nationally) haven't really got a cat in hell's chance of power in Sheffield - Local influence in the SW yes, complete control no...

The Lib-Dems are just full of wind about how bad things are and that they are going to talk about it - yet no practical solutions on action for Sheffield - Take a look at their website on transport and interestingly, the Liberal Democrats support road pricing (congestion charges), better railways (don't we pump £Bn's into this now), increasing taxes on air travel (costa del costly), more cycling facilities (like we have a cycle facility glut) yet no comittment to building roads or improving public transport...

I liked the comment earlier in this thread about "megaphone" politics - remember Cllr Scriven is wanting to become a MP at the next election, he's looking to stir up local issues to win support - go ask him what he will "actually do" if he gets into power and pursuade him to set out a written policy ! I know where he will tell you to go ! :D

To be fair, it's impossible to make this promise

I know. But, so did the council when they made the promise.


The Tories haven't really got a cat in hell's chance of power in Sheffield

You think? I've never voted Conservative in my life (I even voted for Labour when Maggie was in power, in an attempt to rid the world of politics from this monster). I, for one, will be voting for them in both local and national elections in the next couple of years:thumbsup:. I think you may have started to believe the lies propogated by the upper echelons of the party:).



The Lib-Dems are just full of wind about how bad things are and that they are going to talk about it

In your opinion:).


increasing taxes on air travel (costa del costly)

I'm in favour of increasing aviation fuel tax:thumbsup:.

The LD also support a local income tax (which is farer than the council tax) and proportional representation..... Hmmmmmm.... Maybe the Lib Dems are the better of the 3 "big" parties.



I liked the comment earlier in this thread about "megaphone" politics - remember Cllr Scriven is wanting to become a MP at the next election

And Labour, Conservatives, whatever, haven't done the same in the past?

Labour even use bad/tragic news to mask news that the electorate would question more fully if the news/information was released on a normal day (ie. closure of more POs, another of "Tonies Cronies" quizzed about the peerage coruption - I thought Labour was elected on the back of an anti-sleaze slogan:loopy:). There's more sleaze associated with the Labour party, than Soho:hihi:


(like we have a cycle facility glut)

So why are the coucil making even more cycle lanes?

Believe what you want of me. I care not;).
We don't always see eye to eye, but I have plenty of respect for you and I don't think for a second that you are either daft or naive, you little agenda monkey you ;)

I do, however, hold a promise to be binding. Of course. Sadly politicians think that we care about what they say and they can't help saying stuff when they really should keep their flappy gobs firmly shut.

this council does not appear to listen to the electorate and just does what it thinks is best,
Ah! Therein lies the beating heart of Old Labour. Folk get the leaders they elect and the ones that they elected still have the cold heat of 1930's paternalistic socialism burning in the embers of the once fierce blaze of New Labour.
;)

More and more we hear promises from the council which aren't delivered.

Isn't this the time to look to a new council which either delivers their promises, or at least doesn't make promises the can't keep?

From recent evidence, this council does not appear to listen to the electorate and just does what it thinks is best, not what the people who elected it want... not what they were elected for!

Sour grapes again Litotes... how many times have you thrown teddy from the pram this year ?

Local Council's react to what the public want, within reason and within existing national framework - Just because you haven't got what you wanted, doesn't mean that other people aren't perfectly happy with whats going off...

It's the same minority of tired voices everytime bleating on about "how bad this council is ect" yet Sheffield over the last 20+ years has had better investment in roads and infrastructure than any other city in the region... If you don't like Sheffield, then go live somewhere else !

I'd like to see more councillors with the knowledge, guts and ability to actually exert some influence over the Council Officers.

Too much of what it carried out in the council's name is done and influenced by unelected civil servants paying lip-service to the wishes of the residents.

cgksheff, to be fair to officers I'd rather them be running things like roads than meddling politicians with agendas and attitude.

I'd like to see more councillors with the knowledge, guts and ability to actually exert some influence over the Council Officers.

Too much of what it carried out in the council's name is done and influenced by unelected civil servants paying lip-service to the wishes of the residents.

Well if you read carefully what Engineer1951 and Planner1 have said about the overall situation our councillors are hardly in the loop when it comes to traffic/road planning decisions.

The impression given by these contributors is that council 'officers' are implementing national govt. policy, and the penalty for not doing so is a future reduction in govt. grants.

If this really is the situation then councillors are in no position to make promises or have much influence oin the planning process. Nor do I find this surprising - "he who pays the piper calls the tune". In many areas of local government these days, local councillors have little option to deviate from national govt. policy.

I'd like to see more councillors with the knowledge, guts and ability to actually exert some influence over the Council Officers.

Too much of what it carried out in the council's name is done and influenced by unelected civil servants paying lip-service to the wishes of the residents.

Oh, if only... the times I have to say no to residents because I haven't the budget to give them traffic calming, lower speed limits, road closures and safety cameras...

The officers are in place to strike a balance, some like the vocal few on here, want motorways, flyovers and green lights all the way to work, a greater majority of people that contact the council through the usual means - i.e. telephone call, letter, e-mail, via a local member, want the opposite extreme, thus the officers are stuck with difficult decisions...

It's all about money, as is everything in life, you get what you pay for, thus, if the generally public wanted every street traffic calmed, then taxes would go up to fund them, similarly, if the whole nation wanted motorways and flyovers, taxes would have to go up to pay for it... The officers make the recomendations on what is the most cost effective solutions to fix the problem for most of the times...

Going back to the traffic jam last week... ok, so there were two one after the other... thats two major incidents in a year or 365 days... to put this into perspective, thats a major problem for 0.55% of the days of the year (365 days), or 0.38% of the traffic peak periods in the working (260 days)week...

The reasons have been explained, mostly out of the council's hands... you can't blame members or officers for bad weather, the christmas shopping season, broken down trucks and drivers deliberately blocking junctions... you can point the finger at members and officers for getting £10M's worth of highway improvements around the ring road - I doubt they will get a thank you from the vocal few !

The officers are in place to strike a balance, some like the vocal few on here, want motorways, flyovers and green lights all the way to work, a greater majority of people that contact the council through the usual means - i.e. telephone call, letter, e-mail, via a local member, want the opposite extreme, thus the officers are stuck with difficult decisions...


In my experience the councillors that I have contacted don't respond. I have contacted my councillors on several occasions and have only ever received 1 reply - and that one was 3 weeks after my original enquiry.

And before you go off on one, it was as simple enquiry as to why Street Farce were taking 8 weeks to fix a broken light in the lampost outside my house.

What I got back was a complete fobbing off.

And before you go off on one, it was as simple enquiry as to why Street Farce were taking 8 weeks to fix a broken light in the lampost outside my house.Not really in keeping with this thread, but loosely related to the above quote.

Some time back, about ten years or so, I rang whoever was responsible for street lighting back then to tell them about a street light which had been on, constantly, day and night for about two weeks.

The conversation went something like:

ME: Hello!

HER: Hello?

ME: This is Mr ******* of ?? ********** ********. I'd just like to report a street lamp near my house that is constantly on.

HER: Okay. Where abouts is it.

ME: It's on ******* *******.

HER: What number is it?

ME: Eh??

HER: It'll have a small plate on it with a number on it. What does it say?

ME: Can't see the plate from my house, but there's only two lamps on that road.

HER: (In official council employee all-knowing voice) I need to know the number so the workman knows which lamp needs fixing.

ME: (In official council tax payer pee'd off voice) As I said, there's only two lamps, and only one of them is on in daylight. It's that one!!!!

HER: (Now in her official 'I work here because I is too fik for McDonald's' voice) Yes ,but we need to know the number so the workma .............................

ME: It's the one that's lit up in daylight!!!!!!!!!!!:rant:

HER: No need for that .....................

At this point I put the phone down and wondered why any of us bother.

fix the problem for most of the times...


In the short term, maybe. Long term? We'll see:).


Going back to the traffic jam last week... ok, so there were two one after the other... thats two major incidents in a year or 365 days... to put this into perspective, thats a major problem for 0.55% of the days of the year (365 days), or 0.38% of the traffic peak periods in the working (260 days)week...

I'm quite prepared to sit it out in a jam and wait... I have no problem with this in the slightest (I have a - relatively - nice, comfortable car) and thoroughly expect chaos at certain times of day. The problem (from my POV) is the council promising things the can not achieve - unless a massive change in national policy is put in to effect - which just isn't going to happen with the current party in charge, is it? Remember all the talk of re-regulating the buses.... Still waiting:(.


you can point the finger at members and officers for getting £10M's worth of highway improvements around the ring road - I doubt they will get a thank you from the vocal few !

I'll reserve judgment on this till it is finished. If the congestion is relieved (I've never had a problem with driving round Sheffield, TBH - ever:)) I'll be impressed, if it gets worse, then questions should be asked, surely?


you can't blame members or officers for bad weather, the christmas shopping season, broken down trucks and drivers deliberately blocking junctions...

We can blame them for broken promises though:(.

Sour grapes again Litotes... how many times have you thrown teddy from the pram this year ?


Sour grapes? What do you mean?

It's the same minority of tired voices everytime bleating on about "how bad this council is ect" yet Sheffield over the last 20+ years has had better investment in roads and infrastructure than any other city in the region.

Get your facts right. Look at the investment in Leeds, we are nowhere near that level.

A minority of people thought that the earth wasn't flat and got proven right... who knows, history might repeat itself

We can blame them for broken promises though:(.

I bet your a bugger to live with after Christmas Morning :hihi:

Seriously though, I'm not sure I could name a single person who hasn't broken at least one promise to me... be it "yeah, yeah, I'll get you that big train set for Christmas" to "Trust me, I'm on the pill"

It's life, as said above, front page today, chip wrapper tomorrow :D

If you paid for something and it only worked as advertised for 80% of the time, would you be happy? Or would you want it changed?

Get your facts right.

I don't have to get any facts right, I'm on a public internet forum, not in a court of law ! I could if I so wished, spout any old rubbish and there is nothing you could do about it :thumbsup:

Look at the investment in Leeds, we are nowhere near that level.

However, to humour you, I went to the effort of quantifying this a few months back, IIRC I added up about £0.5Bn of highways schemes in the last 20 years in Sheffield alone, that excludes road safety schemes, road renewal schemes and other such small schemes, would probably more than double that amount. Again, if you think Leeds is that great, please move there...

A minority of people thought that the earth wasn't flat and got proven right... who knows, history might repeat itself

A very small minority of people think the Holocaust didn't happen :loopy: and the small Church of Scientology believes that we all came to earth in a DC8 like spacecraft 75 Million years ago :loopy: The minority isn't always as inspired as the early explorers !

If you paid for something and it only worked as advertised for 80% of the time, would you be happy? Or would you want it changed?

May I ask what you do for a living Litotes ? please humour me so that we can all be critical of your chosen line in career...

Have we touched a nerve here?

You avoid the point though - these days, when you pay for something, you expect to get what you were promised, or some form of recompense.

I bet your a bugger to live with after Christmas Morning :hihi:

:D (I think):).


Seriously though, I'm not sure I could name a single person who hasn't broken at least one promise to me... be it "yeah, yeah, I'll get you that big train set for Christmas" to "Trust me, I'm on the pill"

I take a promise very seriously. Which is why I am very reluctant to make them, and will only do so if I am certain (ie 100% - 97% is not good enough) I will be able to keep it:thumbsup:.


front page today, chip wrapper tomorrow :D

Only if people let them get away with it (which they seem to do with alarming regularity):(.


Church of Scientology believes that we all came to earth in a DC8 like spacecraft 75 Million years ago :loopy:

Part of their "religion" may be correct though (in that life on Earth, was brought here on a meteor - OK, a bit different from a great big spaceship, but the theory makes more sense than some that are bandied about:D)

some form of recompense.

We do (to a degree), in the form of elections (for what good they do):rolleyes:.

Again, if you think Leeds is that great, please move there...


Yawwnn. Please change the record, it's hardly a very good defence to support your argument. Or maybe you think the council should adopt it: "Sheffield. If you don't like it, move somewhere else".

Have we touched a nerve here?

I'm really interested in what you do, thats all...

You avoid the point though - these days, when you pay for something, you expect to get what you were promised, or some form of recompense.

And you have avoided my question... however, I will answer yours... I'm always disappointed with what I pay for, in so far as service, quality, not living up to the hype... perhaps my expectations are too high ?

Yawwnn. Please change the record, it's hardly a very good defence to support your argument. Or maybe you think the council should adopt it: "Sheffield. If you don't like it, move somewhere else".

It's often said the other way... In Leeds they do this, in Manchester they spend that, in London they have a big whatever !

The grass always looks greener on the otherside...

I'm always disappointed with what I pay for, in so far as service, quality, not living up to the hype... perhaps my expectations are too high ?

Or perhaps what you buy are falsely advertised - a bit like the promises from the council?


And to answer your question I am an engineer.

Or perhaps what you buy are falsely advertised - a bit like the promises from the council?

Can't resist it can you...

And to answer your question I am an engineer.

Would that be an Engineer who fills the drinks machine up or an Engineer who makes things or perhaps a Mechanical Engineer or a Social Engineer or a Civil Engineer ?

That would be an engineer who delivers what the customer has requested, in the agreed timescale, at the agreed cost.

Before delivery happens, vigorous testing and validation has occurred so that the delivered article works in the prespecified way!

The council could learn from this I guess.

Would that be an Engineer who fills the drinks machine up or an Engineer who makes things or perhaps a Mechanical Engineer or a Social Engineer or a Civil Engineer ?


Give it a rest:rolleyes:

That would be an engineer who delivers what the customer has requested, in the agreed timescale, at the agreed cost.

Before delivery happens, vigorous testing and validation has occurred so that the delivered article works in the prespecified way!

The council could learn from this I guess.

So you supply vending machines ? Mines a Pepsi ;¬)

So you supply vending machines ? Mines a Pepsi ;¬)

Why the constant attempts to belittle other users?

Do you have some sort of complex?

Ok folks, please chill.

Back on topic please, and leave the bickering behind.

Why the constant attempts to belittle other users?

Do you have some sort of complex?

I'm asking the same myself, as I've said before, a very small minority, seem to enjoy pulling down the City Council at every single opportunity, so when various employees of the sleeping giant that is local authority do it back to you guys, you get all upset...

Your user name says it all really... :thumbsup:

Anyways, as the mod has asked... Back to the OP, there were some interested and sensible people in here earlier asking questions and were prepared to listen to each side of the debate and all the issues involved, perhaps people able to suggest some good workable ideas too...

BTW, Merry Christmas to you all of you :partyhat:

It's Christmas - it happens every year - why do people seem so surprised when traffic builds up?

Because we pay professional people to ensure it doesn't happen?

On Christmas day morning, when that expensive piece of equipment doesn't work - do people say "oh, well, you've got to expect that, after all, we can't expect it to be right every time" - my guess is no!

Why should the taxpayer be any different with what is, after all, an expensive service that we pay for?

It would be nice if they could say 'Sorry, we got it wrong', when they do get it wrong, but the council doesn't seem to understand the word 'sorry', or 'got it wrong'.

I'm asking the same myself, as I've said before, a very small minority, seem to enjoy pulling down the City Council at every single opportunity, so when various employees of the sleeping giant that is local authority do it back to you guys, you get all upset...

The difference is that we are annoyed, cheesed off etc, with the city council - not you personally - whereas you are trying to make it personal...

Because we pay professional people to ensure it doesn't happen?

The difference is that we are annoyed, cheesed off etc, with the city council - not you personally - whereas you are trying to make it personal...

Not wanting to get padantic, but don't the two comments contradict each other ? The City Council is the Officers, it's the Officers that make recommendations to Elected Members, they generally accept "Professional" advice from Officers, but the Elected Members (nationwide) have been known to go against professional advice - this is more likely when the Electorate lobby them into making choices against Officer advice...

On Christmas day morning, when that expensive piece of equipment doesn't work - do people say "oh, well, you've got to expect that, after all, we can't expect it to be right every time" - my guess is no!

Why should the taxpayer be any different with what is, after all, an expensive service that we pay for?

It would be nice if they could say 'Sorry, we got it wrong', when they do get it wrong, but the council doesn't seem to understand the word 'sorry', or 'got it wrong'.

As I've pointed out in previous posts, the times that Sheffield doesn't come to a grinding halt far outweigh the times it does. This is thanks to the amount of work put in by Officers over the years, work that often goes unseen, undervalued and under funded.

A failure rate of 0.38% as I suggested a few days ago, is perhaps compared to a simple TV set, quite rubbish, but compare this to a new car and it's looking a little more comparable, compare this to a 5 year old car, which perhaps will break down once every 6 months (if your lucky)... then compare it so something a lot more complex, like the Space Shuttle, which has a failure rate of about 4% - i.e. it's catastrophically failed once every 25 missions...

Your analogy with opening a Christmas Gift is perhaps unfair, the traffic systems of any city are extremely complex beasts, developed over decades and often on a shoestring because members have successfully been lobbied by the electorate to support other services - social care, education, homes, emergency services etc, etc, etc...

More and more people are choosing to use a car in solitude, moving away from public transport of yesteryear, many are lost in the hypothesis that investing in public transport will draw people back, I'm not one of those, although national policy is still stuck in this concept - I'm a firm believer that the future is with car sharing, park and ride just outside employment centres, working from home and flexible hours - all of these are popular with the electorate, but not as well promoted as they could be, for various reasons... Each idea might not suit all people, but if one works for one person and that helps get a car off the road in the peak hour, then that’s a success for me !

As an engineer, I'd love to see Engineering solutions, but we as a nation do not want to afford them, thus we have to look to solutions that have similar impact, but for a fraction of the cost... Simplistic perhaps, but if half the city car shared for 2 days a week, we could see a 10% saving in total trips around the city each day... food for thought ?