What is it with people these days? Its getting to be every weekend.

Where was it? Anyone got a link to any more info on this?

Yes please any more info or a link would be great.

Moon

Originally posted by slh73
Where was it?
There were loads of armed police outside Club Element at about 2.30am. Apparrently there had been a shooting inside the club.

Internetowl, I hardly think it's every weekend.

There have been, hmm, 3 this year?

In most cities that would be a weekend. Sheffield is still a very safe place to be.

There was four gun shots in club element last night about halve one. There was about 1 squad car there at first when it happened and then the armed police where called. No one was hurt, it may be in relation to the stabbing that there was a few week back there.

I know the organiser of the night on fridays, good bloke, I know that he does not promote trouble on Friday nights it's just not his policy! But to be fair I don't think it will be long before it closes down. There was a drive by shooting at club niche a few weeks ago I think thats what the first comment was about.

Wasn't that nice to see loads of armed police in Sheffield thou, bit of a scarey vision. London, America, tv fine, but not Sheffieild! With that killing at park hill, drive by at niche, shooting and stabbing at element and that bloke getting bricked outside purple a while back, doesn't make Sheffield that nicer place really. Yeah, understand that it's just the state of nowa days and you get it in any city centre, but think that we are all a bit nieve and think it is never going to happen where you live.

Shame that pin up club is getting dragged into this, It's a good club night and doesn't deserve to have this trouble going off around it!

the link to the shootings story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3627458.stm

No one was hurt in element thou X

I had a look on the internet once you posted this and apparently sheffield is the country's safest city!

Crime is a lot less per thousand people than places like leeds as well, good to hear as ive moved from leeds to sheffield!

http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/union/susoc/cssa/information/safestcity.htm
ignore the fact its on a sheffield based website i first saw it on other websites so seems genuine too!

Originally posted by superted666
I had a look on the internet once you posted this and apparently sheffield is the country's safest city!

Crime is a lot less per thousand people than places like leeds as well, good to hear as ive moved from leeds to sheffield!

http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/union/susoc/cssa/information/safestcity.htm
ignore the fact its on a sheffield based website i first saw it on other websites so seems genuine too!

Seems to be three years out of date though!

According to the Office of National Statistics, Yorkshire and Humberside is the WORST place for violent crime in 2002/03: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/STATBASE/Expodata/Spreadsheets/D7779.xls

three shootings all together yesterday

2 burgreave area also

which ****** all over the mod's theory that there's only been 3 this year - where does he live? Gun crime is on the up - in Sheffield, in the UK generally. Perhaps he lives in a bubble ?

You would have thought he'd have checked before his pronouncement. Second time now from a so-called *moderator*.

Tsk!

Originally posted by Tony
Internetowl, I hardly think it's every weekend.

There have been, hmm, 3 this year?

In most cities that would be a weekend. Sheffield is still a very safe place to be.

The Police seem to think its a real problem - wait till it comes to where you live, then you might just open your eyes.

Courtesy of Sheffield Star - August 2004

WAR is being fought to prevent Sheffield's streets from being tarnished with the blood that often accompanies drug dealing.


The Burger Bar Boys tried their luck in the back streets of Birmingham. The Johnson Crew did the same in the same city but with less notoriety.
Ninety miles north west in Manchester, the Cheetham Hill Gang and the Gooch Close gang have indiscriminately picked each other off in tit-for-tat shootings over drug-dealing.
Last year, in the battle to prevent Sheffield descending into another haven for drugs gangs, South Yorkshire Police launched the 16-man-strong Operation Maple.
Similar operations have been created in West Yorkshire, the West Midlands, Nottingham and London. Operation Maple, part of the Serious and Organised Crime Unit, specialises in cleaning the streets of drugs and firearms.
Det Chief Insp Martyn Bates, the former head of the operation, said: "We can't let these people get a foothold on the streets.
"We have to take a stand and show them that they will not be tolerated."
Since the operation launched last January, officers have seized more than £1.8 million worth of drugs across South Yorkshire, including £120,000 of crack cocaine, £393,000 of heroin, £92,000 of cocaine, £590,000 of ecstasy and cannabis worth £470,000.
They have recovered 20 guns, six imitation firearms, ammunition and CS gas canisters.
Among the team's most high-profile successes is the capture of drug dealer Keisha Williams, who was caught in possession of £30,000 of crack cocaine and £3,000 of heroin.
The 23-year-old, from Dundas Road, Tinsley, fronted a massive dealing operation from a subway in the district for a Jamaican drugs baron.
Although Williams, who was jailed for seven years, was a simple dealer, the boss who orchestrated the operation is believed to be heavily involved in gun crime.
DCI Bates said: "You can buy drugs just about anywhere in South Yorkshire, but this is no different than anywhere else in the country.
"We target high-level offenders who make a lot of profit from their business and the effects will filter downwards to those lower in the chain."
Traditionally, drugs gangs arm themselves for two purposes: to execute revenge in case they lose "respect" and to enforce payments from drugs debtors.
Despite a number of recent shootings in Burngreave and Pitsmoor the city has, so far, not suffered from high rates of drug-related gun crime.
Christopher Monfredi is one criminal jailed in the aftermath of the killing of gangland murder victim Lester Divers.
Monfredi had no connection with the execution but armed himself with two guns after receiving death threats from the dead man's friends. The 40-year-old, who was investigated partly by Operation Maple officers, admitted stashing two guns at his parents' property in Hillsborough and was jailed for six years.
DCI Bates said: "Thesuccess of the operation has contributed significantly to the relatively very low levels of gun crime in Sheffield."


05 August 2004

Someones mod status makes no difference to their personal opinions, nor on some occasions to their being wrong about something. It's certainly not something that's worth bringing up in any argument as it makes no difference really.

Originally posted by Internetowl
which p*sses all over the mod's theory that there's only been 3 this year - where does he live? Gun crime is on the up - in Sheffield, in the UK generally. Perhaps he lives in a bubble ?

You would have thought he'd have checked before his pronouncement. Second time now from a so-called *moderator*.

Tsk!

Not trying to mitigate this at all but it looks like a drug/gang related shooting rather than someone blasting random passers-bye.

And lets be honest here violent crime is rarity in the UK in general lets not scare ourselves that were all about to be shot...

Originally posted by Internetowl
which p*sses all over the mod's theory that there's only been 3 this year - where does he live? Gun crime is on the up - in Sheffield, in the UK generally. Perhaps he lives in a bubble ?

You would have thought he'd have checked before his pronouncement. Second time now from a so-called *moderator*.

Tsk!

Tony is not a "so called moderator", he is a moderator. I don't know what you think that means, but if you have issues with him, then pms would be the way to go.

And his initial rebuttal still stands - it's not every weekend. The fact that his figures were out doesn't diminish his argument a bit, which I thought would be obvious even to you. :)

Yes, there is a readily available supply of firearms for anyone who knows the right person and has a little money. That should be the target for the police, not the 'users' of guns but the manufacturers and suppliers (many legit gun suppliers in the 70s did plenty of under the counter stuff too).

It is as always a complex problem, but it is exarcebated, not resolved, by whipping up a climate of fear, rather than reasoned risk assessment.

Originally posted by Tony
Internetowl, I hardly think it's every weekend.

There have been, hmm, 3 this year?

In most cities that would be a weekend. Sheffield is still a very safe place to be.
Tony, I'm sorry there have been a lot more than 3 this year. Not all make the headlines however.

If you work in the security industry you get to find out about the shootings that dont make the headlines. You even find out about the ones that do before they make the headlines.

And Internet Owl, I will echo the sentiments of what Phanerothyme has said. Tony IS a moderator, but this doesn't mean he HAS to be 100% right 100% of the time. He has access to the same resource for news in his city as most people in Sheffield and that's through the media.

The media has reported roughly 3 shootings this year (maybe 4). However I know it has been A LOT more than that. Some of my security peers have been shot at during my time working the doors (fortunately not me). It's not fair to criticise Tony's statement in such a way.

Can't we all just be friends :P

Where could Sheffield people get the idea that guns are cool? Perhaps they get it from DJ Splicer, a DJ on the so-called "community" radio station Sheffield Live! who plays gangsta rap tracks which glamorise gun possession and use, drug dealing and other crimes and has a collection of jingles consisting of the sound of guns being fired. He's on air now and he must have played his gun shot jingles at least a dozen times in less than twenty minutes and now he's playing a track in which a rapper whinges that "they won't let me out" of prison. That doesn't sound like a station that "fights to break down the barriers of stereotype".

http://www.sheffieldlive.org/index.php

yeah, i'm sure that that's the real issue, a local dj.
the fact that you can see gun crime and use on prime time tv, in the cinema and in games all the time, that would be an easier target.

Or then again, maybe people are quite that suggestible and stupid, and they use guns because it's a fairly easy and quick method of killing someone, which is what they must be intending to do...

in the star tonight it said 3 shooting yesterday! all burngreave! some lad got shot at as he walked in the st, a man got shot in a house on andover st and someone got shot in club element!

Cyclone, I wasn't saying that one local DJ is the root cause of gun crime in Sheffield, although I do think that the immature, insensitive and irresponsible individual in question is making a mockery of "community" radio and has been allowed to do things on radio (including on FM radio) that he should not have been allowed to do. However, why is the problem of gun crime particularly severe in certain parts of Britain (such as in small parts of London and Manchester and in Liverpool, Leeds and Sheffield)? Where has the culture which sees owning, carrying and using guns (and particularly handguns) as acceptable come from because it runs counter to the long-term trends in Britain? Why has the problem of gun crime got a lot worse in the last few years even though the popular scapegoats such as a market for illegal drugs which is on an industrial scale, violence in films, on TV and in computer games or non-white immigration have been around for at least a decade, if not a few?

I'm sure that there are a few reasons why the problem of gun crime is getting worse but I suspect that some of them are specific to particular areas rather than the result of national or international influences.

Internetowl, my Mod status has nothing to do with my opinion. Much as I would like to have God-like knowledge, I ain't got it... yet ;).

There may well have been more than 3 shootings this year, but I was asking the question... hence the question mark and the 'hmmm' in my OP.

There have been, hmm, 3 this year?

It wasn't supposed to be an authoritative view. If you want to be all uppity about it then I would have to say that your post about it being each weekend was total and utter cobblers. Let's not fall out eh?

I still maintain that Sheffield is a VERY safe place to be.

Shootings are nearly, if not always, between people who have issues with each other. 'Stranger danger' in Sheffield is almost non existent.

I couldn't give a toss about wanna be gangsters and their crappy little make believe underworld. Frankly, the more scrotes that wipe each other out, the happier we will all be.

Originally posted by Fingers
Where could Sheffield people get the idea that guns are cool? Perhaps they get it from DJ Splicer, a DJ on the so-called "community" radio station Sheffield Live! who plays gangsta rap tracks which glamorise gun possession and use, drug dealing and other crimes and has a collection of jingles consisting of the sound of guns being fired. He's on air now and he must have played his gun shot jingles at least a dozen times in less than twenty minutes and now he's playing a track in which a rapper whinges that "they won't let me out" of prison. That doesn't sound like a station that "fights to break down the barriers of stereotype".

http://www.sheffieldlive.org/index.php Your comment here is verging on nonsense here fingers.
The shootings certainly lies around the drug culture. Are you suggesting listeners to Sheffield Live are all drug dealers and gun crazy gangsters.
We at Sheffield live are governed to what we play I.E bad language, offensive material and racial equality.
Its hardly encouragement to glamourise gun possession.
However you could make your point by contacting Sheffield live with your point of view but personally I think your barking up the wrong tree mate.

Dont blame the music/film/games, altho I admit I dont like the culture associated with some types of music as its all about "front/aggression" and bling to get respect - load of absolute rubbish which I hate the way people aspire to.

Most trouble is caused by a small criminal element, unhappy upbringings, drug abuse (esp alcohol), etc. Nothing new really.

Originally posted by evildrneil
Not trying to mitigate this at all but it looks like a drug/gang related shooting rather than someone blasting random passers-bye.

And lets be honest here violent crime is rarity in the UK in general lets not scare ourselves that were all about to be shot...

AMEN

"Are you suggesting listeners to Sheffield Live are all drug dealers and gun crazy gangsters"

No and if you read my posts you will see that I have not suggested that. What I have suggested is that a so-called "community" radio station in Sheffield has been glamourising a predominately American gangsta culture. I don't know whether anyone has been influenced by Westwood-wannabe DJ Splicer's bigging-up of artists who brag about crack dealing, threaten rivals or incite violence against pregnant women, his gunshot jingles or the jingle made by his friend ABM in which he brags about being "surrounded by ho's" or the Shivers crew's raps about gats but they should not have been allowed to do those things on community radio. However, instead of telling these immature people that what they were doing was wrong and trying to exert a positive influence on them the management of the station have allowed them to continue portraying criminality, violence and gun possession as normal and acceptable.

"We at Sheffield live are governed to what we play I.E bad language, offensive material and racial equality."

I know what Sheffield Live!'s guidelines are because I've worked at Sheffield Live!, although my training didn't include the promised session on the content of shows which may have included mentions of the guidelines. The station's guidelines state that:

"Musical content must not contain any improper language, sexual innuendo or mention any illegal drugs, this will not be accepted for transmissions. (If unsure DON'T USE IT) This is because we could get a big fine or even lose our FM licence!"

"Inappropriate language or actions will result in the immediate termination of your show (that includes racism, sexism, violence etc.,)"

However, the station's guidelines are not enforced. I was in The Drum one day during the recent FM broadcast and people swore on air during two shows and the member of management present did not terminate their shows, never mind terminate them immediately which is what they should have done: they were allowed back to do more shows. During the FM broadcast two members of duty management broke the station's guidelines, including one who during an afternoon show said that the male singer of a band wrote a song whilst "stoking his boyfriend". One week during the FM broadcast a group of dance DJs played a track containing numerous swear words but instead of being banned they were allowed to do another show later in the FM broadcast and during that show they played another track with even more swearing in it (I won't say on this website what the track is called because there is swearing in the title). The guidelines aren't worth the paper they are printed on because if you are on Sheffield Live! you are allowed to do what you like.

"However you could make your point by contacting Sheffield live with your point of view"

I have had more than enough experience of dealing with the management of Sheffield Live! to know that doing that would be a waste of time. Well over a month ago I e-mailed two members of management politely asking when a station meeting which they said was going to take place was taking place and I haven't had a reply from either of them (although one of them has e-mailed me to ask if I want to become a duty manager). However, judging by the meetings I've attended before I'm doubtful more meetings would achieve much if the gaps between what was said and what was done and between what was said and what was true were not pointed out. The station's management is unaccountable to anyone and that's one of the main reasons why for the last nine months the station has been falling apart.

Sheffield Live! ought to be a force for good in Sheffield, raising awareness of and encouraging public discussion of problems such as gun violence, gang membership, drug use, binge drinking and domestic violence in the hope of finding solutions to those problems. However, instead of discussing those problems sometimes Sheffield Live! presents such things as normal and acceptable. I'm not saying that there is a direct link between a radio station and crime but would you rather live in a city where there was clear leadership by positive role models who set a good example or a city without such leadership where people ducked difficult issues and decisions and allowed problems to get worse rather than try to solve them? I know which I prefer and which works.

Tony

Three in one week... I lost count at seven this year.. Blunkett certainly gets his facts wrong. Maybe he is being fed propoganda. Regarding crime itself, I know just from my own area alone. There have been several Burglaries in one night alone Five according to the Police Officer I spoke to, Yet, There were Three as I know of unreported burglaries, Two where very little was taken, The other an attempted burglary, The attempted one rang the police, They said , " We are over-run at this moment, We are dealing with several emergencies, Ring us again if they attempt to get in again. There were to my knowledge ( could have been more ). Two serious assaults, One mobile phone robbery, A carrier bag full of shopping from an old lady near to TESCO. None of these were reported. As I say. There could have been more. People no longer report crime unless they really have to. I had a prowler on my garden two nights in a row. Someone tried to break into my shed I did not report this either, So I am just as complacent. But last year, I was burgled, My medication was stolen, along with other things. I reported this. Had to to get medication replaced. The burglar was still in sight. The Police came several hours later. I no longer have faith in the system. The system is also corrupt. But. This is hard to prove or to explain to anyone that has never come across this. Yes.....Crime is on the increase.. Propoganda is being used and the juggling of figures to make us think otherwise.

Tony

You mentioned stranger danger earlier in the thread, Whilst I do tend to agree that this is not an epidemic, It does exist, and, It is serious. Some time ago, I answered an ad for a t.v. set. The address was in Pitsmoor, I was reluctant to go. However, To be safe I went by Taxi. I knocked on the door of the house selling the TV. No- one answered. I was walking away from the door when a guy walked up and asked me what I wanted. I explained to him. He said give me the money for the t.v. I will have him deliver it to your house. I refused, He said I could take it. He had a pistol in his hands, Fair to say it only looked like an air gun. But, I dashed to the taxi. Lucky. The Taxi driver was about to drive off and leave me. Before we got to the end of the road. We were stopped twice and asked why we were driving down that road. We were told to get permission from someone that lived on the road. or we would be dealt with. I was asked how much I was carrying, How much my watch was worth etc. The driver put his foot down and shot out of there. He said he would never go down that road again. But, What I am getting at, The number of roads like this are increasing. There are many roads in Sheffield now that are dangerous not only at night, But during the day also.. I am wary of strangers.

In reply to Rodgers, the stories you relate of Shirecliffe are equally representitive of whats going in Longley.

Anyone wanting to test this theory - I suggest they go spend an hour in the 'newly' refurbished gardens of the '4 greens' and just see how they get on.

Perhaps the Forum's Sheffield's Safe committee could try it and report back on their findings?

Thought not...

Internetowl

Thanks for your reply. I am told that I am just an interferring old git. But I agree Longley and Shirecliffe share the same problems. The Committees on these Estates would not agree. A complete mess is being made, Regeneration money is being wasted. I believe that Blunkett visited the four greens recently. I am also informed. That he was told that they look good. They are clean and well restored. That crime around the four greens has gone down a lot.

Well. Maybe Blunkett may beleive this, He will believe anything that does not contadict him.

Would you agree that crime and drug dealing on our estates has increased netowl. I see many youngsters 10 /. 12 years old on dope. I know of several dealers within five minutes walk of the greens.

Originally posted by Rodgers
Internetowl

Thanks for your reply. I am told that I am just an interferring old git. But I agree Longley and Shirecliffe share the same problems.

Regeneration money is being wasted. I believe that Blunkett visited the four greens recently. I am also informed. That he was told that they look good. They are clean and well restored. That crime around the four greens has gone down a lot.

Well. Maybe Blunkett may beleive this, He will believe anything that does not contadict him.

Would you agree that crime and drug dealing on our estates has increased netowl. I see many youngsters 10 /. 12 years old on dope. I know of several dealers within five minutes walk of the greens.

As a parent you start to notice these things I'm afraid. Crime is rife on the estate at the moment - on the road I'm on, there's been 4 burgleries in the last few days, also its rumoured that the local 'centre' is going to start housing paedophiles on release from jail. Just what you want. If thats seen as regeneration then its a really sad world. Its a pity that other 'old git Mr Wilson' is no longer with us - he kept the council on their toes. He really did put the hours in. Too many do-gooders from posh backgrounds involved in the committee's to make it effective for local people.

Originally posted by Rodgers
Tony

Three in one week... I lost count at seven this year.. .
I love the way this line is said. I lost count at seven :lol:
Did you never learn to count past ten at school :P

Sorry, just saw the humour in the post is all ;)

Originally posted by Internetowl
also its rumoured that the local 'centre' is going to start housing paedophiles on release from jail. Just what you want. Too many do-gooders from posh backgrounds involved in the committee's to make it effective for local people. Internetowl, I am not doubting your comment here but the centre is a couple of hundred yards from an infant/junior school which I'm sure you are aware of.
Where did you get the information from.
If your right then it needs out forcing and now.
Surely no council would even think of putting paedophiles near a school.

Originally posted by Tony
I still maintain that Sheffield is a VERY safe place to be.

Shootings are nearly, if not always, between people who have issues with each other. 'Stranger danger' in Sheffield is almost non existent.

I couldn't give a toss about wanna be gangsters and their crappy little make believe underworld. Frankly, the more scrotes that wipe each other out, the happier we will all be.

Whilst this viewpoint may be widely held it is a dangerous one to hold. Even if most or all shootings are between "people who have issues with each other" what does "have issues with each other" mean? A shooting may be the result of a dispute between rival criminals but it may also be an armed criminal's attempt to silence a witness or the settling of a score with someone which could about something as trivial as bad feelings between people when they were at school, the break-up of a relationship with a member of the opposite sex or a perceived insult.

If any gangsters shoot other gangsters their victims may not get much sympathy, although when a leading Liverpool gangster was murdered so many people wanted it to be known that they were mourning his loss the adverts in a local paper filled up three pages. However, whilst there are wannabe gangsters there are also real gangsters and the underworld they live in is not make believe: it is real and sometimes law-abiding citizens get caught up in it as they are entering or leaving a nightclub, driving or in the premises of the types of businesses favoured by armed robbers. If anyone still wants to cling to the hope that this problem will somehow solve itself you can but personally I would prefer it if action was taken to deal with the gun problem, starting with a gun amnesty followed by concerted action against anyone who still possesses firearms.

Our government has used military force against other countries in response to the perceived threat that a few people in those countries posed to people in the UK but I think home-grown criminals pose more of a threat to the people of the UK than foreign terrorists or governments.

Originally posted by Tony
I couldn't give a toss about wanna be gangsters and their crappy little make believe underworld. Frankly, the more scrotes that wipe each other out, the happier we will all be.

Here, here! Give them a room and last one left standing wins a jail sentence :D ;)

Originally posted by Fingers
starting with a gun amnesty

What ANOTHER one???

If we have another gun amnesty, What next ? ? An amnesty for burglars, Drug dealers, Where does it stop, Wife beaters, Child porn ( Get computers cleaned free of charge and forget it ever happened. There should be no such thing as an amnesty. Do you really think criminals would hand over their guns. How many criminals do you think handed over guns during the last amnesty. Antiques , Replicas , Old war souveniers etc. two days after the amnesty another shooting.. Amnesties are not the answer to any problem. The answers are there for anyone with the courage to take on the Home Secretary. But, At the moment taking on Blunkett is not a wise thing to do.

Maybe we should have an amnesty for all the allegedly bent politicians out there, Or perhaps the Police. Well we can live in hope. I hope this does not upset anyone, Just trying to provoke a response

Originally posted by crazey
Shame that pin up club is getting dragged into this, It's a good club night and doesn't deserve to have this trouble going off around it!

Yes a big big shame - ThePin-UpClub (Fridays) & Scuba (Saturdays) will be back very very soon so watch this space - we will be back, bigger and better.

We have not had any trouble on our nights, we reach full capacity each week and our nights are based on having a wicked party, just how it should be.

Peace

Get your arse down soon Da Bouncer

D

What night was running on Friday when the shooting happened? Was it one of the rubbish RnB nights that the new management brought in to replace the decent music nights that the old management used to run?

I also thought that fez and element were under different ownership, is that right?

Just read in the star that the bloke who got shot in element was shot 3 times in the head, is seriously hurt and currently recovering at northern general.

Getting shot 3 times I'd say that he's lucky to be alive, what were they using - a pea shooter?!

Originally posted by evildrneil
Not trying to mitigate this at all but it looks like a drug/gang related shooting rather than someone blasting random passers-bye.

And lets be honest here violent crime is rarity in the UK in general lets not scare ourselves that were all about to be shot...

Why can't they shoot each other in private though rather than in a crowded nightclub with lots of innocent bystanders around?

Just heard that the police have used their "special powers* to close Element.....This is sad and bad news all round...I work as a part time sound engineer for Phonetics on Sat nights and in all my time spent in the club I have only been witness to one minor incident (a drunken scrap between two young guys over a girl)...and that was on a fri nite....This is damaging to the other nights, Scuba,Pin ups,Coalition,Fez, Pink Promotions etc...where the emphasis has always been on good music,good vibes and friendly people....Its the only club in town that I feel safe and so do many other others I know, especially the women...who rarely get hassled...The staff are fantastic and the security are the coolest bouncers in town.....Not happy....Guns hey...Spoiling our wicked city....

Originally posted by tron
Just heard that the police have used their "special powers* to close Element.....This is sad and bad news all round...I work as a part time sound engineer for Phonetics on Sat nights and in all my time spent in the club I have only been witness to one minor incident (a drunken scrap between two young guys over a girl)...and that was on a fri nite....This is damaging to the other nights, Scuba,Pin ups,Coalition,Fez, Pink Promotions etc...where the emphasis has always been on good music,good vibes and friendly people....Its the only club in town that I feel safe and so do many other others I know, especially the women...who rarely get hassled...The staff are fantastic and the security are the coolest bouncers in town.....Not happy....Guns hey...Spoiling our wicked city....

I think you have asked a very interesting question at the top of this post. can anyone answer it, where can nice people go?

Just spoke to the owner of the club and he sais that there is another meet with the police this week...meeting him later to see what the score is

Here is the report from today's Star. It is heavy on the Police's point of view as the club owners didn't want to comment at this moment in time.
http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=850989

RIVAL gangs battling for control of a Sheffield nightclub have forced police to use new powers to shut the premises down days after a reveller was shot.

Escalating violence inside Element nightclub, Charter Row, prompted the drastic action.
It is believed to be only the third time a venue has been shut down in this way in England.
Officers made their decision after a 22-year-old reveller was shot in the head three times in the early hours of Saturday morning.
The victim, who suffered two wounds to his face and one in his mouth, was seriously hurt and treated in the Northern General Hospital.
The club was shut down at 10.30pm on Saturday when City Centre Community Safety Inspector Shaun Morley issued a temporary closure order in the interests of public safety. The case was heard at Sheffield magistrates court yesterday when Superintendent Martin Hemmingway, appearing on behalf of South Yorkshire's Chief Constable Med Hughes, handed District Judge David Fletcher a seven page statement of evidence detailing problems police have encountered with the club since May. Supt Hemmingway told the court a "predominant gang" controls activity in the club but another gang uses the premises. He said: "The two rival gangs wish to play out their rivalry in the club. There is a grave risk to public order if these premises were to re-open."
The closure order also applies to the Fez Club, a smaller venue above Element, which Supt Hemmingway described as the "same stage where the rivalry will be played out".
After reading Supt Hemmingway's statement Mr Fletcher said he was "quite satisfied" with the police case and granted the closure order which states: "Closure is necessary in the interests of public safety because of the recent history of public disorder and violent incidents that have occurred in the premises or in the vicinity of the premises and which are related to the premises."
Solicitor Martin Cowell, representing Element nightclub, did not contest the temporary closure order during the 12 minute hearing.
The case will come before the licensing board at magistrates court on September 28 when the final decision will be made on the future of the Element and Fez clubs.
The owners of the club, who say they plan to have a meeting with police, did not want to comment after yesterday's hearing.
After the case Supt Hemmingway told The Star: "It's a very significant step forward in addressing problems of violence in the city centre. We try wherever we can to work with licensees and owners but the government has given us strong powers and we won't hesitate to use them unless we have full co-operation."

dont listen to everything you read or hear about this - the story changes every 5 mins

Mod: As the Police are involved and there are potentially court proceedings please be very careful what you write on this subject.

I feel sorry for Karen at Pink promotions and people at phonetics.
I always thought the securtity there was crap. How are people getting guns into clubs. Last time I was there they emptyed my baccy into a plastic bag in their quest to find drugs but yet the same firm can miss guns and knifes.

I feel sorry for everyone involved in the club - not one single person wanted this to happen. All the promoters / owners are looking for is putting on good nights for the people of Sheffield - just bad luck - it could happen 2 any bar / club

The truth is that no matter how tight the security is you can smuggle anything into anywhere if you really want to...Guns can be made out of plastic and taken apart and reassembled later..so the security issue is kinda redundant...The broader social issues are what are most important here and not the "gangwarfare" slant that the media have thrown in just because it sells ...The article in the Star is just too sensational...The club has never been a place where rival gangs meet to fight it has been a place where all sections of the Sheffield music loving community can come for a special night out...We have become a catalyst for new talent in all areas of music and one which I am proud to be part of....We have raised money for charity...supported anti war and anti fascist movements...Helped numerous artists on the road to success and a better creative life....Every local band and more from outside, national and international have played here to great responses...From Hogboy to Roots Manuva to Grooverider to Killa Kella and more than I could name..... Hardly any trouble at all...and thousands of happy people have enjoyed thousands of great nights here over the years.........We also have the best sound in this town.....So blame the guys with the guns...not our club.....

as the promoter for scuba on saturday nights at the fez club i thought i should give you an inside view on what's going on and the future of the club (and the various nights at element and the fez).

firstly i'd like to point out that as i understand it the shooting as described by todays article in the star was confused by one of those at burngreave on the same night, there was a shooting in the club but the victim escaped with a minor injury. that's not to say that the situation is any less serious!

what the article does point out quite clearly is that the police have taken a general view of the venue in terms of the crowd it attracts and the type of night that goes on. despite getting rid of the offending r&b night that is the centre of the problem, they currently think that if the club re-opens it will attract the same people. they dont understand that the nights are generally trouble free and are promoted by various well meaning businesses who create a valuable part of the club culture/music industry in sheffield.

we all know that this is part of a larger escalation in gun crime across the country (sheffield always was a bit late to catch up!), and the police have taken a hard stance for political and pr reasons as much as anything else. they are under pressure to do something about a problem which is largely out of their control, fair enough!

but where do we go from here?

myself and other promoters such as phon-etics, pin-up club and coalition are to meet with the police licensing people and put forward our views, educate them about our events and the wider ramifications that a closure would have on these ligitimate businesses and the whole sub-culture with which they are associated. on my conversation with them today they seemed very reasonable and see our input as positive.

the stance of the club is one of being very open with the police and working with them to sort out the problem, afterall no club owner asks for and wants guns in their venue!

there is a dilemma that many clubs face with r&b and uk garage nights in that they attract trouble, but on the other hand r&b is now very mainstream and also the black and asian youth culture needs quality nights... will stopping all r&b nights across the city be fair? i think that the police need to tackle the root of the problem and in fairness this is a gargantuan task.

as far as scuba is concerned i am both doing my utmost to get the fez club back open (why it had anything to do with dowstairs anyway i dont know!), and in the meantime we are working on an alternative venue for the short term... stay tuned!

waiting with bated breath...





:loopy:

Sorry for not including Scuba in my last post, I've had many great nights out there from my mates tell me.
As for the security issue. How did a gun end up in the club?

Sheffield is still widely regarded as a safe city in which to live. If you think gun crime is bad in Sheffield, take a look at the situation down the road in Nottingham.

I've been to this club many times, and I have to say it’s brilliant, friendly and most of the nights/promotions (many mentioned here already) are excellent. I have found this venue to be one of the safest, friendliest places in this part of the country. I was shocked when I first heard about this totally uncharacteristic incident.
But it has recently hosted an RnB promotion.
RnB nights are bad news because there's always a small number of nonces with attitude standing around like they've watched too many movies and flashing their weekly wages like its gangsta cash. Oh so pathetic.
This is an awful thing to happen for everyone concerned with this usually fantastic venue. But I have to admit that I nearly cried with sorrow and with laughter when I heard some gossip surrounding this incident. Sorry if that makes me seem malicious but its horrible when you find something funny about something as shocking as this.
Now I've got to be careful because, as Tony says, this is sensitive, but if these rumours are true then the perpetrator/s of this crime really is/are the saddest most deluded idiot/s in the land. And I mean, to the point of hilarity. If or when what I heard ever reaches the press it will go down in history as the saddest ####wit crime of the millennium.
Really people, there's not a lot to worry about. The press is hyping this incident in it's usual having a field day way, and it is awful, but the prison showers are going to have new buttocks pressed against the tiles, if you know what I mean.

Having said this, my thoughts are with the family of the victim who, I am sure, we must all feel sympathy for. No parent deserves that (and please don't get smart with the socio comments)

i think one of things we have to be careful about is to make the destinction between black/asian youth culture (which most white people of middle class origin dont understand) and geniunely dangerous gangster types.

like i said in my previous posting, it is not exactly fair to make a sweaping statement about all r&b nights simply because they have a black and asian crowd. these are the most unfortunate people in this scenario as their social scene gets stigmatised even further.

the main thing that makes some people uncomfortable at such nights is the 'flexing' and posturing that goes on. this is not violence, it is part of the youth culture that we dont inderstand... i remember when dizzee rascal was recording in sheffield at kenwood studios, he didnt like the place because when he went into town nobody was 'flexing'! he felt like a fish out of water and equally as much an outsider as some white people would feel at your a typical r&b night. this is not to say he is a gangster (contrary to what many believe, he is not!). it is just cultural difference.

let's not forget that it was only 10 years ago that the clubs in sheffield associated with gun crime in sheffield were the arches and the music factory... that was nothing to do with r&b nights.

Scuba I don't entirely agree mate when you say flexing is part of "a youth culture many don't understand".

It's been around for ages, esp. in London, + some of us aren't that old ;)

It just isn't a nice culture IMHO. It's up front, aggressive and macho, and its about materialism and showing off. You get the same sorta thing outside the RnB scene, it's just most obvious there at the moment.

Just my opinion tho and I've never liked the aspirations and role models often generated, even as a kid.

Note I'm not talking about actual violence/gangster stuff altho I agree with you that often they get intertwined and misunderstood.

It's a shame because some of the music is great, but many of the guys do little to help themselves by trying to promote how street they still are, their criminal past, anti-gay lyrics, etc. Does my head in that anyone is actually even vaguely proud of being involved with guns or hard drugs. You could argue that this is only a minority I guess.

It's very sad that dodgy types tend to hook up with the sort of clubs some of you guys promote and I know people who have loved those nights, but unfortunately the reason they associate with them is because it IS this culture that they want to belong to.

How can you make them feel unwelcome without putting off your regular clientele? I have no answers other than trying to keep a friendly and chilled atmosphere and turning away those who are obviously posturing big time.

As you say, they'll always want to go somewhere.

Originally posted by miggy
Scuba I don't entirely agree mate when you say flexing is part of "a youth culture many don't understand".

It's been around for ages, esp. in London, + some of us aren't that old ;)

It just isn't a nice culture IMHO. It's up front, aggressive and macho, and its about materialism and showing off. You get the same sorta thing outside the RnB scene, it's just most obvious there at the moment.

Just my opinion tho and I've never liked the aspirations and role models often generated, even as a kid.

Note I'm not talking about actual violence/gangster stuff altho I agree with you that often they get intertwined and misunderstood.

It's a shame because some of the music is great, but many of the guys do little to help themselves by trying to promote how street they still are, their criminal past, anti-gay lyrics, etc. Does my head in that anyone is actually even vaguely proud of being involved with guns or hard drugs. You could a
rgue that this is only a minority I guess.

It's very sad that dodgy types tend to hook up with the sort of clubs some of you guys promote and I know people who have loved those nights, but unfortunately the reason they associate with them is because it IS this culture that they want to belong to.

How can you make them feel unwelcome without putting off your regular clientele? I have no answers other than trying to keep a friendly and chilled atmosphere and turning away those who are obviously posturing big time.

As you say, they'll always want to go somewhere.

dont get me wrong miggy, for one i am not at all associated with the night in question and scuba is nothing to do with r&b and the type of crowds associated, we just happen to run a night in the same venue... so careful with the 'you guys...'

i agree with you to a certain extent, flexing and all that goes on is not my thing, and it certainly isnt anything new like you say but i am trying to mark a clear different between a part of this youth culture (which you have to agree it is more than ever!) and genuine gangsters... i am trying to be as diplomatic as possible with respect to this issue as i think alot of people assume all black people with a swagger are gangsters!

you cant turn away a punter for having a fake limp, this is fashion! i am equally turned off by glowsticks and flouro-trance types... but we cant make judgements on the way people look... or stand!

"you guys..." meaning you guys who are promoting or running club nights.

And you can turn people away for anything mate, from experience!!!

Glowsticks, limp, posturing, jeans...

Originally posted by miggy
"you guys..." meaning you guys who are promoting or running club nights.

And you can turn people away for anything mate, from experience!!!

Glowsticks, limp, posturing, jeans...

i am trying to draw a distinction between different types of club nights and the people that promote them, 'you guys' does kind of lump us all together.

personally i dont think it's fair to turn people away on those grounds.

i think that any decent club night shouldnt employ a dress code as it gives an air of elitism.

but that's just my point of view...

As someone who gets turned away for no shirt/trainers from various bars/clubs in town, I agree mate!

Excuse me for being thick here .. but why did they not just shut the night down ?

I think they are wrongly assuming that this goes on across the venue as a whole, on each and every night. It is up to us to educate these people and show them what we do, what we are about and what are future plans are for the nights we manage and promote.

From a personal point of view - I've stopped going to clubs as the atmosphere is always a little tense and you end up spending all night expecting the worse - not my idea of entertainment. You always *know* who's going to kick off from early doors.

I think they maybe closed the club due to the doormen being affiliated with the gangs, much the same as what happended in the Hacienda in Manchester, the doormen need to know the faces and who to stop or let in. In a ideal world it should be impossible for someone to get into a club with any kind of weapon let alone a gun, and the security should at least stop and search people randomly, the shooter knew he could take a gun into a club, its therefore safe to assume he knows the security will let him in without any problems.

Internetowl - Sounds like you are going to the wrong places. I spend most of my evenings in clubs and have nothing but a good time and hardly ever see any trouble.

I’m not saying the world of clubs is all Love, I have seen trouble but they really are one off incidents, which are normally defused very quickly.

I would love to invite you to my night (when we re-open) to show what a great vibe we are creating

Originally posted by the fonz
I think they maybe closed the club due to the doormen being affiliated with the gangs, much the same as what happended in the Hacienda in Manchester, the doormen need to know the faces and who to stop or let in. In a ideal world it should be impossible for someone to get into a club with any kind of weapon let alone a gun, and the security should at least stop and search people randomly, the shooter knew he could take a gun into a club, its therefore safe to assume he knows the security will let him in without any problems.

does this mean someone that gets on a plane with a knife knows the security at the airport - complete rubbish.

Random searches which are in operation means these people took a gamble, and got in, simple.

I have not read through this thread simply because the title says it all.
Its Pitsmoor, any shootings that take place there are between druggies, pimps or dealers.
Let them shoot each other and its more scum off the streets.
Can't all be bad news can it.

cycleracer - the main conversation here is about the closure of element due to a shooting, which is a big shock for us all.

blessed - i thoroughly agree with you, the notion of the security being 'in with the gangsters' is ridiculous, that particular security team were brought in to deal with the particular pressures of that night. they were very thorough and none of us can work out how a gun got into the club.

internetowl - there are many different types of club nights, many that i wouldnt go to for the very reason you have given, but there are many that have a very good atmosphere with the right type of people.

Originally posted by Cycleracer
I have not read through this thread simply because the title says it all.
Its Pitsmoor, any shootings that take place there are between druggies, pimps or dealers.
Let them shoot each other and its more scum off the streets.
Can't all be bad news can it.

I was giong to lash out at this comment - but half of me agrees the other half hates to admit it. But its not so simple as that.

Many of these idiots are just brainless kids who have some fantasy in their heads- trouble is that fantasies can easily become a nasty reality. Walking around with a short leg and emulating the street thang wid a hood in da 'hood- is a bit naff - but it's fashionable in an alternative chav way. And its a fashion that gets kids into trouble.

Personally I love the music associated with Trip, Hip-hop, Drumnbass, acid jazz Latino, Dancehall, RnB crossover thing. Its the blend of cultures that contributes to a melting pot of personalities that Element got right for years with Phonetics, Scuba, Urban Gorilla etc.

But the bad sad boyz can't see it so plainly. They seem to wrap all rap into gangstarap because they're culturally inept. People should get what they deserve in life... but do all people deserve to be subjected to this belligerence?

Originally posted by Internetowl
From a personal point of view - I've stopped going to clubs as the atmosphere is always a little tense and you end up spending all night expecting the worse - not my idea of entertainment. You always *know* who's going to kick off from early doors.

:( that's a real shame .. I've never experienced any of this on a Pin Up night .. or indeed, a Scuba night .. tho, to the latter, I've only been twice .. (sorry guys) ..

I've been to many a Pin Up night and the vibe in there has been smiley, cheeky (hmm .. too cheeky at times ;) ) If you haven't been, you'd enjoy it - I promise !

It's not only the night though .. it's the club itself. Ok, it isn't the POSHEST club, but it's somewhere you feel you fit in, whether you're dressed up, or not .. small enough to gather an atmosphere that would put many a super club to shame !!

I actually enjoyed "Element" .. when it was Remedy ... once again, a fantastically sized club ..

Again .. appearing a little ignorant here .. but what was run in Element on a friday?

Does anyone agree that .. it's not really fair to tar all the nights at these clubs with the same brush ? Why didn't they just STOP the night on a Friday in Element ?

I watched ITV Yorks. Calander news this evening (friend has Sky-you get all the ITV regs) and two teenagers are still being questioned over shooting in the Burngreave district.

Article taken from Yorkshire's Calander News (http://www.yorkshiretv.com/news.php?region=Yorkshire&content=11603)

Alex

Umm ... is there ANYONE in Sheffield that wasn't shot on Friday ?

Been reading this forum with interest as I am a Dj at and involved with Phonetics. Firstly, thanks for all the positive comments about the situation. Judging by the number of hits it's an issue that has obviously grabbed people or the latest bit of tittle tattle ;)

Scuba is right though. It is important to make distinctions between nights but also a bit dangerous to stigmatise whole sections of society. Us and Scuba have been in the venue for nearly 5 years. If I had a pound for every incident we have had between our two floors on these packed saturday nights I would be even worse dressed than I am !! JUST DOES NOT HAPPEN.

The fact is it was one night that the problem revolved around. The problems of that night did not cross over to our night or Scuba's for that matter. Should the club re-open these nights will play no part in the programming.

So it is important to keep some perspective. For what its worth, I believe the Police had no choice but to close the venue and however unjust it may seem to our nights that have done as much as we can to add to this city's nightlife, music scene and social life. BUT the Police cannot tolerate shootings at clubs. Simple. Plus, this is a new piece of legislation being put into force. I don't think it's wise to criticise the Police for doing their job. We all just hope that when big decisions are made the true past and (in the main) the present of the club / venue will be considered - not this anomaly.

A door policy that discriminates for whatever reason diminishes the night and goes against our ethos. From experience the music and the vibe sort these problems out....and turn away obvious trouble. Internetowl - I always feel safe at the clubs I go to in Sheffield. Element (and b4 as Po Na Na) feels like a second home to me. Maybe shop around a bit more ?

I think I can speak for all of us to say that this is a very sad situation which has affected a lot of people. It's part of a wider problem in society that won't be tackled by burying heads in the sand and thinking "well it's this people or that". Music plays a part in the way that popular culture influences everyone.

In my view, it's a street level manifestation of our consumerist culture which has become more extreme in the past 20 years resulting in kids being killed over a phone, the public worshipping "get rich quick" icons, being obsessed with celebrity and generally sending out the message that money is all and that greed is good. Look at the pressure on kids to look a certain way through to identikit Beckham hairdos. All part of the same philosophy that encourages the worst instincts in people.

Right, off me soapbox - i'm off to joing the SWP :D ;)

Originally posted by Saffy
Does anyone agree that .. it's not really fair to tar all the nights at these clubs with the same brush ? Why didn't they just STOP the night on a Friday in Element ? #

i think this is the main issue at hand for us right now, we can only assume that the police want to take a hard line and prevent a resurgence of violence by closing the club for a while. i think in reality they know the difference between the different types of club night and have nothing against the likes of scuba, phonetics and pin-up club... hopefully, with this in mind the closure will be temporary.

i have to say i'm grately disapointed that the fez has been shut down (temporaraly!)

anyone about in sheffield knows it has a great vibe over the weekend... :)

but then we all know the type of **** that goes on down in element just by the types of people you see in the queue as u walk past...

its a shame one incident in a club, non related to another leads to many of us now searching for something to do on a friday....


all i can say is i hope it gets sorted and that the fez reopens!!!

be careful Adam, not everyone that went to that night were trouble makes in fact the night has been running for sometime now and they have only had a couple of incidents. Its a real shame that a promoter that is passionate about what they wanted to achieve is now under pressure to stop. MTV play R&B 24/7, lots of young children love this music, its not all gangsters and trouble makers that enjoy it

I think clubs should have metal detectors by law in this day and age. Just because guns aren't legal here doesn't mean people don't still carry them. I'm glad I'm out of Sheffield at present as I too would most likely have been in Element that night.

As for the amount of shootings this year I know of at least 9 and I'm pretty sure there has been more.

Why are people saying no one was injured when 3 people are in Hospital?

That comment is offensive to the thousands of people that we have catered for over the years....You are the kind that causes animosity between folks and that makes you part of the problem,not the solution.....

Here's the press release from S Yorkshire Police

Sheffield club closed after weekend shooting

Police investigating the aftermath of a shooting inside Sheffield’s Club Element at the weekend have welcomed a court’s decision to grant a closure order on the premises.

A district judge at Sheffield Magistrates’ Court upheld an application by South Yorkshire Police to shut the Charter Square club following the incident on Saturday 4 September. The “sister” premises, Club Fez, was also closed by the order.

Inspector Shaun Morley, in charge of policing the Sheffield City Centre area, issued the order, under new licensing laws, on Saturday night - after assessing the situation as the club opened again for business.

The following day the order was extended by Superintendent Martin Hemingway who brought the case before the court.

Superintendent Hemingway, the officer in charge of licensing issues for Sheffield Central District, said: “This is a very important decision and a big step forward in making Sheffield a safer city centre. It is the first time we have used this power and we are pleased that the courts have backed our decision.”

The court heard how police had monitored an increase in incidents at the club over recent months and had offered to work with club management to address the problems.

Police used Section 179 of the Licensing Act 1964 to close the club. This clause was inserted into the Act by Section 17 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001, as part of the Government’s drive to strengthen police powers to reduce violence and antisocial behaviour associated with drinking. It is the first time these powers have been used in Sheffield.

Supt Hemingway added: “The Government have given us powerful tools in the fight against crime and disorder and we will use them. The message to licensees and managers is clear – ‘co-operate with us to help fight crime or we will close you down’”.

Under the order both clubs must now remain closed until 28 September 2004, when licensing magistrates will consider the permanent revocation of the club licences.

glad i'm out of it:loopy: :loopy:

Fingers crossed for the 28th - let’s hope they make the right decision so we can re-open and bring back some quality nights in a safe environment

Knowing quite a lot about this new power of the police, and also effectively the increase in discretionary powers of magistrates in relation to licensing, I cant see them reversing this decision. If the club failed to comply with previous advice from the Police it is certain they be refused a further licence.

On top of that there is all kinds of red tape about re-opening a closed venue....I would be looking for a new career if I was the licence holder of that place.

we should hopefully find out the full story on friday 25th sept... then we can start planning again.

Originally posted by J-Blaze
I think clubs should have metal detectors by law in this day and age. Just because guns aren't legal here doesn't mean people don't still carry them. I'm glad I'm out of Sheffield at present as I too would most likely have been in Element that night.

As for the amount of shootings this year I know of at least 9 and I'm pretty sure there has been more.

Why are people saying no one was injured when 3 people are in Hospital?

one person had a minor injury, the rest were from other shootings on the same night in pitsmoor/burngreave area.

there are other issues here, do you think that the licensee of a club is all seeing and all knowing of everything that goes on? if so then why are the majority if people in dance clubs in a saturday night off their heads on pills?

I'd suggest that the Police are less concerned with a club of loved up clubbers than with people taking guns into venues...

But anyway.. hope it goes well at the hearing - it'd be real shame for long running & quality nights like Scuba to lose their venue - as Sheffield is not exactly over run with good club venues at the momment.

http://www.thisissheffield.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=862058

Reckon the headline should be

"Local Police fail to curb gun crime and violence in city centre"

disgusting and biased and rascist reporting....The Star and the police should be ashamed of themselves.....

The police have released photos of three men they wish to interview in relation to the shootings:

BBC - Nightclub shooting photos issued (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/3745686.stm)

I could picture them looking exactly like that before I even saw the photos. Uncanny isn't it!

Why has it taken them 6 weeks to get round to putting the pictures out?