now listen yee of non white britishness. either conform to the british way of life or go back home with a flea in your ear. i agree with mr blair a hoovering out would be good for britain.now we need action not words.

I saw this on the news ,and i have to agree .Unfortunately it's already been taken the wrong way by certain community's .

Its just a pity he had to wait so long before saying it. Plus he seems to be contradicting himself a bit. Be british but diversify. Theyre going to have to draw a line between moaning about the country and downright hate, the muslim who was on the local news here in Leicestershire was displaying utter hatred of the british society and people, demanding that we all live in peace together--under sharia law. He said it was his right to hate us because he was born here and it was also his right to demand sharia law and do all he could to make sure its implemented.
I wonder if that means terrorism...

Maybe the past governments, Tories or Labour, should have given Britain a referendum and actually asked the British people if they wish to be swamped with millions upon millions of immigrants instead of forcing people into integrating with them because it obviously doesn't work!

To everyone I know, its been obvious for years and years that integration wouldn't work. This is because of religion mainly and people wanting to come to the UK but not integrate to our way of life! They seem to settle in areas which become notorious no-go for whites areas which seem strangely enough, to go unnoticed in the news.

Blairs views sound like he's woken up to the problems but its a case of way too little, way too late! I personally don't believe he's got the guts to send anyone home anyway. The UK's turning into the crap-hole of Europe and is probably too late to reverse. The minority of people who are do-gooders have had their say, had their way and are now going to watch what they thought would never happen.

yes it is too late for this country .why dont the goverments listen to the comman man.who has more sense then the governments put together. the ethnics communities not all, bring their cultures with them. a mixed bag does not work. how long before the penney drops.

Maybe the past governments, Tories or Labour, should have given Britain a referendum and actually asked the British people if they wish to be swamped with millions upon millions of immigrants instead of forcing people into integrating with them because it obviously doesn't work!

Wouldn't matter if they did. We're obliged under international law to take asylum seekers, and economic immigrants are contributing to society (by definition) so removing them would leave us all worse off.

New arrivals must conform to Britain's standards of tolerance, Tony Blair warns in a major speech. from the bbc website.


The irony is astounding :hihi:

Wouldn't matter if they did. We're obliged under international law to take asylum seekers.

It's an out-dated law drafted around sixty years ago, just after WWII. The world was a very different place back then.

There was not the sort of access to transportation people have today and also IMO people were much less likerly to made stuff up in order to get a better life. i.e. Economic migrants posing as asylum seekers.

It needs to be redrafted with perhaps a quota system where different countries agree to a percentage or number. I wonder how many 'asylum seekers' would come to the UK knowing that they could end up in the perfectly safe (soon to be) EU member state of Romania.

The above post by Brailz is very true!

You were beaten to it, but the earlier thread is in the wrong forum section. Go look under General Sheffield Discussions ;)


(this was a response to Olliekitten, and since the threads are now merged, it looks a bit out of place :D )

now listen yee of non white britishness. either conform to the british way of life or go back home with a flea in your ear. i agree with mr blair a hoovering out would be good for britain.now we need action not words.

Stupid idiot

You have shown your allegiance by corrupting what he actually said by your inclusion of the white word

deepak

New arrivals must conform to Britain's standards of tolerance, Tony Blair warns in a major speech. from the bbc website.


The irony is astounding :hihi:

Especially as this subject has already been posted in Sheffield Chat. A merger in General Chat perhaps? http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=168220

yes it is too late for this country ............. how long before the penney drops.

Oh and at least I know how to spell the currency over here

Whats your excuse for not being a patriot?

Deepak

I cannot stand that lame excuse of a man! :rant:

It's an out-dated law drafted around sixty years ago, just after WWII. The world was a very different place back then.

There was not the sort of access to transportation people have today and also IMO people were much less likerly to made stuff up in order to get a better life. i.e. Economic migrants posing as asylum seekers.

It needs to be redrafted with perhaps a quota system where different countries agree to a percentage or number. I wonder how many 'asylum seekers' would come to the UK knowing that they could end up in the perfectly safe (soon to be) EU member state of Romania.


Agreed, but since it's an international law, we are not permitted to simply change it. We'd need international agreement.

Matthew Parris made the point pretty sharply in a Times article a year or two back, when he mentioned that if everyone who's entitled to seek asylum in the UK actually did so, our population would be more than two billion. :o Unfortunately, until such an obviously silly outcome actually *happens*, it'd be political suicide for any party to suggest withdrawing from the current laws.

Blair, meant the hate mongers. The rest of the immigrant population is adapting to britishness perfectly-for example, I was in Leicester today where theres a very high population of muslims and they were joining in all the Christmas stuff. They have done for years.
Im old enough to remember things like this said about the Afro Carribean immigrants in the 60s and now, theyre as much a part of Britain as anyone can possibly be, they add to the country and they dont stand out anymore.
Give it a decade or two and the same will be said for the Asian/muslim people.
99% of them are hard working, good people.

Wouldn't matter if they did. We're obliged under international law to take asylum seekers, and economic immigrants are contributing to society (by definition) so removing them would leave us all worse off.i thought that by law,the only asylum seekers and refugees we were obliged to take were irish and norwegian, the law i think states that they must stop at the first neutral country closest to their homeland, now as a lot of the people here have crossed several borders i reckon they have not adhered to the law,so,they should be returned to their own country,or its nearest neutral neighbour,without the family allowance and pension books they collected whilst here.....

Agreed, but since it's an international law, we are not permitted to simply change it. We'd need international agreement.

Matthew Parris made the point pretty sharply in a Times article a year or two back, when he mentioned that if everyone who's entitled to seek asylum in the UK actually did so, our population would be more than two billion. :o Unfortunately, until such an obviously silly outcome actually *happens*, it'd be political suicide for any party to suggest withdrawing from the current laws.

Why is it the more posts I read of yours, the more "conformist" to a teacher's command you seem to accept. You were accused within the last 24 hours or so of being a "teachers pet".

How true that seems to be!

We are a sovereign nation, never mind the "We have to conform" crap!

If the other sods we are allied with don't like it, well do what every other nation in the world does...TELL THE REST TO STUFF IT!

We dont "Have" to do anything. We do it because we were once an empire and governments feel they have to assist people of that empire. Ok, so now we accept people from other countries.
Id suggest that any government who stuck by a policy of disallowing any more immigrants and sending unsatisfactory ones back would be a popular one. Ive said it before, but the average bloke in the street would back such a move.

Why is it the more posts I read of yours, the more "conformist" to a teacher's command you seem to accept. You were accused within the last 24 hours or so of being a "teachers pet".

How true that seems to be!

We are a sovereign nation, never mind the "We have to conform" crap!

If the other sods we are allied with don't like it, well do what every other nation in the world does...TELL THE REST TO STUFF IT!


Not long ago, a ship full of immigrants turned up on the shores of Austrailia. If I remember the news correctly, they told the captain that if he didn't turn around and clear off, they would blow the ship out of the water.

It worked!

i thought that by law,the only asylum seekers and refugees we were obliged to take were irish and norwegian, the law i think states that they must stop at the first neutral country closest to their homeland, now as a lot of the people here have crossed several borders i reckon they have not adhered to the law,so,they should be returned to their own country,or its nearest neutral neighbour,without the family allowance and pension books they collected whilst here.....


Funnny depoix as I thought exactly the same...........that they were supposed to seek asylum in the first safe country ..............anyone care to enlighten us?

Why is it the more posts I read of yours, the more "conformist" to a teacher's command you seem to accept. You were accused within the last 24 hours or so of being a "teachers pet".

How true that seems to be!

We are a sovereign nation, never mind the "We have to conform" crap!

If the other sods we are allied with don't like it, well do what every other nation in the world does...TELL THE REST TO STUFF IT!shoeshine,we have had differences of opinion in the past,but tonight sir,i salute you on your post, your sentiments ,i am sure, represent the majority of british people

Thing is. If the majority of Brits dont want this then why dont the damn governments listen? The people have complained again and again but each government just ignores them.

shoeshine,we have had differences of opinion in the past,but tonight sir,i salute you on your post, your sentiments ,i am sure, represent the majority of british people

Thank you, depoix.......it's time this Nation started some plain speaking..... I have children and grandchildren. Where's the backbone disappeared to in Britain?

If we lost it for years, let's grow another one quickly, or we will be crawling on our bellies to lesser Nations!

Thing is. If the majority of Brits dont want this then why dont the damn governments listen? The people have complained again and again but each government just ignores them.
Since when did a British Government listen to the wishes of the majority once elected? :(

The bloke on the local news here tonight said "Britain doesnt belong to any one people, it belongs to all of us, in fact, it belongs to allah like the rest of the world, I agree with all races and religions living in peace and love but it MUST be under Sharia".

The bloke on the local news here tonight said "Britain doesnt belong to any one people, it belongs to all of us, in fact, it belongs to allah like the rest of the world, I agree with all races and religions living in peace and love but it MUST be under Sharia".

I'll pay for that bloke's Air Ticket out..... any one else want to contribute?

The bloke on the local news here tonight said "Britain doesnt belong to any one people, it belongs to all of us, in fact, it belongs to allah like the rest of the world, I agree with all races and religions living in peace and love but it MUST be under Sharia".that piece of ground he was stood on was bought by the lives of several hundred thousand british men,women and chgildren,where was he and his ilk then?when the rent was due?

I'll pay for that bloke's Air fare out.....
Well it was obvious his elevator didnt go all the way to the top floor but people actually listen to people like him! Thats the scarey thing.

Thing is. If the majority of Brits dont want this then why dont the damn governments listen? The people have complained again and again but each government just ignores them.

Simple answer.............vote for LordChaverly as PM, timo as Chancellor, Shoeshine as Home Secretary and me as Foreign Secretary............or should I be Chief Whip? :hihi:

Well it was obvious his elevator didnt go all the way to the top floor but people actually listen to people like him! Thats the scarey thing.

Well that's easy to sort out.......let him and his supporters swim back to where they came from!

Simple answer.............vote for LordChaverly as PM, timo as Chancellor, Shoeshine as Home Secretary and me as Foreign Secretary............or should I be Chief Whip? :hihi:
Ill vote if i can be first under the lash!:hihi:

that piece of ground he was stood on was bought by the lives of several hundred thousand british men,women and chgildren,where was he and his ilk then?when the rent was due?
Ask him that to his face and he`ll probably rant that your racist. Trouble is there are others who would agree because nutcases like that actually have a voice here, a stronger voice than you or I.

Ill vote if i can be first under the lash!:hihi:

cloudy........someone wants to live as an irritant under your eyelash! :hihi:

cloudy........someone wants to live as an irritant under your eyelash! :hihi:
Actually I was being far cruder than that. Look! I KNOW crudities coming from me seem alien but...
God, im even trying to bullchit myself now!

cloudy........someone wants to live as an irritant under your eyelash! :hihi:

I've had worse under other things .............:hihi:

I've had worse under other things .............:hihi:

I'll send you a tenner if you tell us about on here! :hihi:

Well, perhaps not.....how about a fiver? :hihi:

Simple answer.............vote for LordChaverly as PM, timo as Chancellor, Shoeshine as Home Secretary and me as Foreign Secretary............or should I be Chief Whip? :hihi:
Can I be Leader of the Opposition?
Opposing that lot would be a cushy number. :hihi:

Can I be Leader of the Opposition?
Opposing that lot would be a cushy number. :hihi:

Dream on dear...............you can be number 1 in my bed chamber............how does that sound? :hihi:

Personally I think we should give sharia law a chance. Try it out for a decade or so and see what happens. It might actually benefit the country.


I... think Im having some sort of a breakdown...

Can I be Leader of the Opposition?
Opposing that lot would be a cushy number. :hihi:

I'm not a cushy number! :o

Gizza kiss.....:hihi:

I'll send you a tenner if you tell us about on here! :hihi:

Well, perhaps not.....how about a fiver? :hihi:

And I'd be willing to listen for nowt!!!:)

And I'd be willing to listen for nowt!!!:)

Well you would at your age!

I... think Im having some sort of a breakdown...

You sound as though you have some kind of suicide pact with Bradford............

You sound as though you have some kind of suicide pact with Bradford............
I just want to bury my other half up to her neck in a pit of sand and stone her.
Call me picky, but she blinked at me without permission today and she needs to be punished!

I just want to bury my other half up to her neck in a pit of sand and stone her.
Call me picky, but she blinked at me without permission today and she needs to be punished!


Take the sore eye option then, cloudy......what's a sore eye compared with the alternative?

I just want to bury my other half up to her neck in a pit of sand and stone her.
Call me picky, but she blinked at me without permission today and she needs to be punished!

I have the exact punishment you need..............pay for a life-time membership to the Labour Party as a crimble pressie for her..............sorted :thumbsup:

Take the sore eye option then, cloudy......what's a sore eye compared with the alternative?

I would offer to whip jabber to death but he would only enjoy it.............MEN !! :hihi: :hihi:

I would offer to whip jabber to death but he would only enjoy it.............MEN !! :hihi: :hihi:
Im dying of lust just thinking about it.

Dream on dear...............you can be number 1 in my bed chamber............how does that sound? :hihi:
Lord privy seal, with the Order of the Garter eh?
An exhausting, time consuming, but ultimately satisfying job, by the sound of it. :thumbsup:

Dream on dear...............you can be number 1 in my bed chamber............how does that sound? :hihi:

Did you leave the pot out of that post. After chamber.

Lord privy seal, with the Order of the Garter eh?
An exhausting, time consuming, but ultimately satisfying job, by the sound of it. :thumbsup:

All the talk about Garters is turning me on...stop it! :hihi:

Did you leave the pot out of that post. After chamber.
:nono: :hihi: :hihi:

Lord privy seal, with the Order of the Garter eh?
An exhausting, time consuming, but ultimately satisfying job, by the sound of it. :thumbsup:

Quite my dear. Most men would die for the position I would love to put you in..............:hihi:

Quite my dear. Most men would die for the position I would love to put you in..............:hihi:
If you are going to die, then die happy I think :hihi: :hihi:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6219626.stm

He is now reflecting the countries true feelings.
It is noticable that the first ones to jump up shouting are once again the tiresome muslims.
Why do they think that everything is directed at them?
If I felt so belittled I would not wait to be sent, I would go of my own accord.
There is plenty of room in muslim countries for these people, who believe that our PM should be speaking for them, and not the vast majority of the people.
The trouble is, that they live in such tight knit, closed communities that they do not realise what the feeling is in the world outside.
If they ever did try to communicate they may realise that England is not so bad after all.

BTW, I am not speaking about the educated and intellectual ones among their community, that so many of you have as personal friends, but the lower elements. The ones you see day to day, but dare not communicate with.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6219626.stm

He is now reflecting the countries true feelings.
It is noticable that the first ones to jump up shouting are once again the tiresome muslims.
Why do they think that everything is directed at them?
If I felt so belittled I would not wait to be sent, I would go of my own accord.
There is plenty of room in muslim countries for these people, who believe that our PM should be speaking for them, and not the vast majority of the people.
The trouble is, that they live in such tight knit, closed communities that they do not realise what the feeling is in the world outside.
If they ever did try to communicate they may realise that England is not so bad after all.

BTW, I am not speaking about the educated and intellectual ones among their community, that so many of you have as personal friends, but the lower elements. The ones you see day to day, but dare not communicate with.

I've seen on the news the statement he made. I thought I'd dreamt it, doesn't seem like him at all. Wow, there must be an election coming up, and I've missed out. Sounds to me like he's just trying to win votes back to labour.

I think he's an idiot.

I think he's an idiot.

It sounds to me like a vote winner, try and get the working class to keep voting for them. (even though working class are punished by them IMO)

I never really thought about politics very much to be very honest with you. At least not to that extreme extent that I have seen on the SF. However, now that I know multiculturalism is some kind of fad that has gone, and is not wanted by the politician any more, then don't I feel daft as a citizen. It feels like that politicians are indeed employees who just tries to gain a place in politics, you know ? He probably had spin-doctors writing his speeches for him !

His speech is definitely on par with that Aussie bloke on the other thread a while back who sprouted crap. I am offended by it. It comes across as the words of a dictactor than anything.

A lot of ethnic minorities are probably quite apathetic to politics anyway. So whatever politicians spinout, may be right to the majority of White British members.

When the word "multi-culturalism" started making the headlines a few years ago, I thought, "great" we're accepted. We're finally acknowledged as citizens, and not second-class citizens. Then suddenly all this PCness which made people tipped-toe around each other, and this PM who tries to get people to integrate by dictactorship, I'm thinking "what" ?

I didn't understand why people were so against Islam, or ethnic communities, (it's always about that though isn't it, especially when immigraton is talked about), when the government had tried years in its own ways to get immigrants to settle in. It baffles me when some of my friends talk of Tony Blair like he was a mate. Vote for him because he has policies which will make your life happier immediately. Why would you ? Why not vote because of the economic policies, and not because of sociological changes ?

I agree with "The right to be in a multicultural society was always implicitly balanced by a duty to integrate, to be part of Britain, to be British and Asian, British and black, British and white."

Mr Blair said "multicultural Britain" should not be dispensed with, adding: "On the contrary, we should continue celebrating it," What is the problem with this statement? Am I missing something?

Edited because: the title of the thread has been changed, I've deleted part of my original post as it was no longer relevant.

BTW, I am not speaking about the educated and intellectual ones among their community, that so many of you have as personal friends, but the lower elements. The ones you see day to day, but dare not communicate with.

The 'lower elements'? - Good grief, have you any idea how pretentious and snobbish that makes you sound?
'The ones you see day to day, but dare not communicate with' - I think you mean the ones that you see day to day and you dare not communicate with.
Am I missing something or don't you claim to be a socialist? You come across more like a Daily Mail reading blue rinse 'us and them'- er.
So, educated and intellectual Muslims are OK, guys - hurrah! It's the lower elements we all need to be scared of.

artisan was just hedging his bets to avoid offending anyone on SF, or anywhere else, come to that, who may have Muslim friends, the doctors who treat us in the NHS etc, Halibut.

In other words, he's a Socialist! :hihi:

Halibut seems offended by the term, 'lower elements'. To me, it seems pretty obvious that, indeed, there ARE lower elements in most countries and societies. Marx dubbed them the ' Lumpenproletariat ' i.e. the groups who usually were so uneducated ......etc.... that they usually formed the unemployed and never attempted to become politically conscious.

The great fault-line which runs through Left Wing thinking, in my view, is that there are no real differences between people and that given certain circumstances, all people are potentially about equal. They, [theLeft], then think that if you pass a few laws or do a bit of social engineering [or a lot !],you can change human differences. Hence the many social 'experiments', in the old Soviet Union and other socialist or communist countries, and their very dismal results.

In the U.K. at present, this attitude emerges as political correctness, where no-one must be offended, upset, feel that they are a failure..........etc.....because, deep down, everyone is just as good as everyone else.This is a load of rubbish, in my opinion, and has led to the bizarre results we see in our educational system, to name but one. New Labour have been running round in circles for about 9 years trying to make everybody happy and equal and it just doesn't work. Stalin......et al.....tried it by force and Blair tries it by smarm but the results speak for themselves.

Therefore, someone who values educated, personable Muslims over uneducated ones is just speaking common sense. Surely, anyone is entitled to like a white, educated, cultured person better than a drunken, white, thick, lout ?

Mod Note: Threads merged.

i thought that by law,the only asylum seekers and refugees we were obliged to take were irish and norwegian, the law i think states that they must stop at the first neutral country closest to their homeland, now as a lot of the people here have crossed several borders i reckon they have not adhered to the law,so,they should be returned to their own country,or its nearest neutral neighbour,without the family allowance and pension books they collected whilst here.....


Good call and perfectly true.
The majority of people here are economic migrants now, not asylum seekers from countries who are in conflict

Good call and perfectly true.
The majority of people here are economic migrants now, not asylum seekers from countries who are in conflict

Do you have any evidence of that or are you just repeating something you heard in the pub?

I never really thought about politics very much to be very honest with you. At least not to that extreme extent that I have seen on the SF. However, now that I know multiculturalism is some kind of fad that has gone, and is not wanted by the politician any more, then don't I feel daft as a citizen. It feels like that politicians are indeed employees who just tries to gain a place in politics, you know ? He probably had spin-doctors writing his speeches for him !
words of a dictactor than anything.

le back who sprouted crap. I am offended by it. It comes across His speech is definitely on par with that Aussie bloke on the other thread a whias the
A lot of ethnic minorities are probably quite apathetic to politics anyway. So whatever politicians spinout, may be right to the majority of White British members.

When the word "multi-culturalism" started making the headlines a few years ago, I thought, "great" we're accepted. We're finally acknowledged as citizens, and not second-class citizens. Then suddenly all this PCness which made people tipped-toe around each other, and this PM who tries to get people to integrate by dictactorship, I'm thinking "what" ?

I didn't understand why people were so against Islam, or ethnic communities, (it's always about that though isn't it, especially when immigraton is talked about), when the government had tried years in its own ways to get immigrants to settle in. It baffles me when some of my friends talk of Tony Blair like he was a mate. Vote for him because he has policies which will make your life happier immediately. Why would you ? Why not vote because of the economic policies, and not because of sociological changes ?=


If you don't like it here now there is a way out. I like the bit "We are accepted" you have always been accepted but your compatriots have spoiled it for you all by not accepting the fact that they are in a country that is not theirs but are trying to take it over by subversive means.

=
If you don't like it here now there is a way out. I like the bit "We are accepted" you have always been accepted but your compatriots have spoiled it for you all by not accepting the fact that they are in a country that is not theirs but are trying to take it over by subversive means.
Well, thank you for being so polite about it. I suppose, I am speaking from an ethnic minority's point of view. So, do excuse me, if I use loosely the term 'we', cos I know you will never agree on that point anyway, as obvious by other comments made in this thread already. (Which is fine by me.)

For my parents generation, they had to battle for their rights to be here. For my generation, we're just about to begin to integrate fully, and to understand life in the UK. However, with the strong hatred, as shown by others here in this thread, this is what many ethnic minorities fear. Will there be a type of 'cleansing' this country will go through ? Will you attack me ? Will I be persecuted in this democratic country and need to flee elsewhere ? That is the question. Although, you said that ethnic minorities have always been accepted and as British, but to me, this whole integration business flagged up *because* many do not know about the country that they live in.

I am always asked, when I arrived in the UK. How come they have not ever seen me around town. How come, I speak English so fluently ? I'm baffled. A lot of people like myself who are 2nd generation are baffled of their own identity. It really does not bode well, when I do not know 'what' I am by social perception. Am I an accepted citizen ? Am I 'British' ? Am I 'English' ?

So excuse me for being hypersensitive in this instance. Cos to me, I don't feel particular that great about what Tony said in his speech. I do think it's stupid. It makes me feel that people have not been entirely honest. So therefore, they don't like 'foreigners' in this country.

he wants to stop em coming in if get anymore people on this island we,ll sink

now listen yee of non white britishness. either conform to the british way of life or go back home with a flea in your ear. i agree with mr blair a hoovering out would be good for britain.now we need action not words.

Now listen all yee of white britishness, either conform to the x way of life when you go on holiday abroad, or holiday for a week in Skegness with a flea in your ear. I agree with a hoovering out of lager louts, and topless beer bellied beech lobsters in every other country... (especially in Asia - you have no idea how genuinely offensive it is for the locals to see you stumbling around drunk, with a Chiang beer in one hand and a B&H in the other, whilst wearing a horribly skimpy outfit) :)

Now listen all yee of white britishness, either conform to the x way of life when you go on holiday abroad, or holiday for a week in Skegness with a flea in your ear. I agree with a hoovering out of lager louts, and topless beer bellied beech lobsters in every other country... :)
When people from thse Isles venture abroad, we fit in very well with the foreign society.
For a start, we stand out a mile, as most of us can only remember a few words of whatever the language is.
We therefore present ourselves as brilliant targets for the rip off merchants.
By doing so we contribute to the local economy, and everyone is happy. :thumbsup:

Now listen all yee of white britishness, either conform to the x way of life when you go on holiday abroad, or holiday for a week in Skegness with a flea in your ear. I agree with a hoovering out of lager louts, and topless beer bellied beech lobsters in every other country... (especially in Asia - you have no idea how genuinely offensive it is for the locals to see you stumbling around drunk, with a Chiang beer in one hand and a B&H in the other, whilst wearing a horribly skimpy outfit) :)

Most white British people find the above spectacles pretty stomach-churning too - disgust at drunken, loutish, undignified behaviour is not restricted to foreigners

StarSparkle

Most white British people find the above spectacles pretty stomach-churning too - disgust at drunken, loutish, undignified behaviour is not restricted to foreigners

StarSparkle

I know, I was just being flippant :P

I know, I was just being flippant :P
:hihi: I'd have believe you though !

I once saw a lot of graffitti in Tenerife that said, "get out of our country, and give back our jobs".

Tony blairs patience with extremist immigrants has snapped-with the pm telling them to they must adopt british values.He said brits were fed up with being taken for a ride by those who make no effort to fit in .Pity he didnt say that when he first came to power . Mind you whoever takes over i hope has the determination to carry on where tony blair left off [our tolerance is part of what makes britain,britain.so so confrom to it -or dont come here]

I totally agree with this sentiment. I don't care what your ethnic origin is, if you're here you're British.
Other countries won't even accept immigrants unless they speak the language and abide by their rules. That is how it should be and if you don't like it go to where you can do your own thing without question.
I doubt if you can find anywhere as tolerant as we are and it's got to stop.
This does not mean you can't follow your beliefs, just make the country you have made home come first.
Oh and before you say you were born here the same applies.
If you don't like us LEAVE.

I have to say that I really dont believe that integration can honestly work between the western culture and the extreme islam culture basically because they are so different.

I do feel for 2nd generation muslims in this country - the points about lacking identity as asian/british/english??? I can understand the difficulties there, but had your parents stayed in a muslim country these problems wouldn't have occurred.

I don't mean to cause offense at all, I just truely believe that because the cultures are so extremely different that it makes it impossible for the system to work - hence the segregation that we see today.

now listen yee of non white britishness. either conform to the british way of life or go back home with a flea in your ear. i agree with mr blair a hoovering out would be good for britain.now we need action not words.
If Tony was a member of SF he'd have been banned for that speech :nod:

I have to say that I really dont believe that integration can honestly work between the western culture and the extreme islam culture basically because they are so different.

I do feel for 2nd generation muslims in this country - the points about lacking identity as asian/british/english??? I can understand the difficulties there, but had your parents stayed in a muslim country these problems wouldn't have occurred.

I don't mean to cause offense at all, I just truely believe that because the cultures are so extremely different that it makes it impossible for the system to work - hence the segregation that we see today.
I noticed that you wrote 'extreme Islam', and not just 'Islam'.

I hope you don't imply for people to go 'home'. Cos home for the second generation are indeed Britain already ! Which is why the angst amongst ethnic minorities to be told to 'do this now, or sod off'. Do what ??? Have I not been integrating ? What do you call talking to you then ? I hope you understand the angle I'm coming from.

Well, I appreciate your bluntness, as long as you don't kill my family or myself. I don't mind if we're just debating about issues. I promise I won't bomb you as well, since technically I am Irish. :P

I noticed that you wrote 'extreme Islam', and not just 'Islam'.

I hope you don't imply for people to go 'home'. Cos home for the second generation are indeed Britain already ! Which is why the angst amongst ethnic minorities to be told to 'do this now, or sod off'. Do what ??? Have I not been integrating ? What do you call talking to you then ? I hope you understand the angle I'm coming from.

Well, I appreciate your bluntness, as long as you don't kill my family or myself. I don't mind if we're just debating about issues. I promise I won't bomb you as well, since technically I am Irish. :P


I sense in your response that you did take offense, that it not what I intended, so I apologise.

the phrase 'extreme islam' I think has been mis interpreted I prob should edit to just say islam, what I meant was that the islamic culture is just so extremely different to the western culture making it so so so difficult for integration to happen.

I think it is fair for our PM to say "be more british or sod off" to be honest.
If for example I went to live in say spain, I would learn the lingo and live by the spannish culture. I wouldn't segregate myself away from the locals. Just the same as if mulsim's what to come to engalnd, they should expect to live by english cultures. England shouldn't have to change to accomodate the minority.

I don't know you personally so I cannot make any comments about your integration into english society, but please don't bring bombing or murdering into the debate even if it is in a tongue and cheek manner!

Well, I appreciate your bluntness, as long as you don't kill my family or myself. I don't mind if we're just debating about issues. I promise I won't bomb you as well, since technically I am Irish. :P

I know you only meant it as tongue-in-cheek, but your comment above is potentially offensive and completely unnecessary.

StarSparkle

I sense in your response that you did take offense, that it not what I intended, so I apologise.
Apologies accepted. I did feel a little bit twitchy about it.

the phrase 'extreme islam' I think has been mis interpreted I prob should edit to just say islam, what I meant was that the islamic culture is just so extremely different to the western culture making it so so so difficult for integration to happen.
The thing is, I don't know how much you know of how Islam is interpreted by the average muslim believer. Maybe it is media's stereotyping others, which makes the mass majority belief a certain idea. I myself is already integrating and interacting with you in this thread alone. Others ethnic minorities are too. So I "don't" understand why people still say that muslims 'do not' interact with others. Yes, I will say that you don't understand Islam very much. Neither do I to be truthfully honest. However, I know there are different 'stength' of beliefs. There can be a strong Christian believer, and extremely loyal to the religion, and he can look quite normal, and don't stand out as much. Until you hear him preach. Yet, for the average muslim believer, their attire make them stand out already, and stereotypes are already in force even before they interact with you.

I think it is fair for our PM to say "be more british or sod off" to be honest. If for example I went to live in say spain, I would learn the lingo and live by the spannish culture. I wouldn't segregate myself away from the locals. Just the same as if mulsim's what to come to engalnd, they should expect to live by english cultures. England shouldn't have to change to accomodate the minority.
England shouldn't change to accomodate the minority, I agree. However, as a minority, I would be 'more British' (whatever the hell that means), just cos the PM say so. I will continue my life as I see fit, within the laws of this land. So he can sod off. To me, I've been law-abiding, and to read that comment, and references made to my ethnicity is ridiculous. It's why I don't read the newspaper much. Cos it certainly brainwashes you, a lot. People stops interacting with others and really get to know their neighbour, but believe everything that a newspaper article says. What kind of mentality is this ?

I don't know you personally so I cannot make any comments about your integration into english society, but please don't bring bombing or murdering into the debate even if it is in a tongue and cheek manner!
I'm sorry. It's just occured to me that, you really don't know what ethnic minorities think with regards to the whole scenario. Cos for the chinese community, they are indeed being murdered, and not bombed, and no-one knows that. The majority of the population do not know that. Neither are they made aware of it. Race crime of any nature is not nice. I'm sorry you were offended by what I was saying. I didn't mean it to come across as a reference to 7/11, or 9/11. I think I made a mistake there. Cos you don't know how to relate to issues within ethnic minorities. Which is why there are no understanding between cultures or people to begin with, but hatred !

[Edited] Typo.

Which is why there are no understanding between cultures or people to begin with, but hatred !

I dont have any hatred towards any race at all, and from what you say it sound like you are british! Great!

I have a very good friend who is a 2nd generation and he is actually now christian, he dresses in western clothes - has a western job and has a western mentality. Again great.

I'm not saying that muslims should forget their religion its just that (having read books about islam and the Quran) because islam is such a completely different culture this is the barrier that causes lack of integration.

You used the phrase interact - there is a huge difference between interacting with someone, and then actually integrating into a society.

Again please don't take any offence I'm just trying to openly express how I feel.

I dont have any hatred towards any race at all, and from what you say it sound like you are british! Great!
Huh ? Ok, so you don't hate other races. You think I sound British. I myself consider myself to be a little bit British. However, I don't know how I am perceived socially, and whether others consider me to be 'British' (whatever this 'Britishness' is suppose to be). Which is what really gets my goat. Because, if Tony Blairs sprouts this out, then does he mean that those ethnic minorities who are already in Britain are not really British ? I don't understand why he needs to address it. Does he need to "endorse" my Britishness in some ways ? :confused:

I'm not saying that muslims should forget their religion its just that (having read books about islam and the Quran) because islam is such a completely different culture this is the barrier that causes lack of integration.
Well, then maybe you need to see if what you read in a book is exactly as what is interpreted by people out there who actually believes in the religion themselves. I get the impression that there is a big discrepency out there and hence why this segregation of beliefs in Islam between those who are non-belivers, and those who are believers.

You used the phrase interact - there is a huge difference between interacting with someone, and then actually integrating into a society.
Ok, enlightening me then. You know what, this implies that I have been humoured all along as an ethnic minority in this country. I don't wish to think that way about people. To say that one is humouring me socially, but mentally, they hate my guts or something.

Again please don't take any offence I'm just trying to openly express how I feel.
No, it's been enlightening. I'm just a bit airy fairy here, cos I'm replying to 3 threads at once. Here on the SF and elsewhere on the exact same issue.

Now listen all yee of white britishness, either conform to the x way of life when you go on holiday abroad, or holiday for a week in Skegness with a flea in your ear. I agree with a hoovering out of lager louts, and topless beer bellied beech lobsters in every other country... (especially in Asia - you have no idea how genuinely offensive it is for the locals to see you stumbling around drunk, with a Chiang beer in one hand and a B&H in the other, whilst wearing a horribly skimpy outfit) :)
not has much has it offends me watching our tourist,s (immigrants) stumbling about with f****** big fat giro,s

Huh ? Ok, so you don't hate other races. You think I sound British. I myself consider myself to be a little bit British. However, I don't know how I am perceived socially, and whether others consider me to be 'British' (whatever this 'Britishness' is suppose to be). Which is what really gets my goat. Because, if Tony Blairs sprouts this out, then does he mean that those ethnic minorities who are already in Britain are not really British ? I don't understand why he needs to address it. Does he need to "endorse" my Britishness in some ways ? :confused:


Well, then maybe you need to see if what you read in a book is exactly as what is interpreted by people out there who actually believes in the religion themselves. I get the impression that there is a big discrepency out there and hence why this segregation of beliefs in Islam between those who are non-belivers, and those who are believers.


Ok, enlightening me then. You know what, this implies that I have been humoured all along as an ethnic minority in this country. I don't wish to think that way about people. To say that one is humouring me socially, but mentally, they hate my guts or something.


No, it's been enlightening. I'm just a bit airy fairy here, cos I'm replying to 3 threads at once. Here on the SF and elsewhere on the exact same issue.


Ok Bago. There was no personal attack on you just the attitude.

You say that any non-Muslim who reads the Koran is misinterpreting it.
Unless one reads every interpretation of any religious book (the Bible included) it is impossible to understand it. Scholars of all religions have put there own interpretations on the old writings so who is to say which is the correct ones.

The thing that angers non-Muslims is when the leaders of that religion advocate the killing of non-believers, when they have come to this country for what seems that sole purpose.
Are you speaking out against those teachings?

I had to think for a moment, why you thought that I had an attitude. Ok, I may come across as quite aggressive to this particular thread. However, I have seen, read, and digested enough of this BS that surrounds immigrants, Islam, and ethnic minorities. I don't normally get that annoyed about, but today, I was dealing with a few threads, all on the same topic. It was just too much. I probably need to chill out a bit, but it really is doing my head in.

To answer your question, I am speaking out against those who stereotype Muslims in this country. Even though, I myself is not a muslim, I cringe when I read these posts, and such stereotypes or prejudices are allowed to be thrown around so easily. Maybe this is one side of British culture that I don't understand. People can voice their discontent, while the sufferers remain in silence. Is it a sarcasm thing, or even satire ? I don't get it. Cos if you were the person being talked about, I don't think you will feel particular good about it.

If I have to clarify myself, then I will say that, I don't mean that a non-believer cannot interpret the Quaran better than the religious believers themselves. Rather, the non-believers should not judge and create their own perception or judgement against those believers. Bottomline is that majority of people believes those who live in Britain and is a muslim must be extremeist, or even be potentially like those in the Middle East. I feel this is a wrong judgement of British Muslims, and this is what I hate.

Unless the non-believers attend the mosques, or even remotely understand what the moques are teaching its followers, how do you know whether this is what all muslims in this country want ? Right ? So, how come the non-believers that reads the Quran, will think so farfetchly that British Muslims will behave like those in the Middle East ? Why make sweeping generalisation ?

i thought that by law,the only asylum seekers and refugees we were obliged to take were irish and norwegian, the law i think states that they must stop at the first neutral country closest to their homeland, now as a lot of the people here have crossed several borders i reckon they have not adhered to the law,so,they should be returned to their own country,or its nearest neutral neighbour,without the family allowance and pension books they collected whilst here.....

The vast majority of asylum seekers do go to neighbouring counties, for example: Guinea, a country with a population of 7 million, is currently home to 3 million Sierra Leonean. In Africa alone, there are 8 million refugees and many millions more who are displaced within their own countries. Although they lack the wealth and stability that the UK enjoys, it is developing countries, such as Pakistan (3,347,717 refugees and asylum seekers, which continue to host the majority of the world's refugees.

The UK hosts just over 3 refugees per 1,000 inhabitants and its average GDP per capita is £22,550. Kenya hosts over 7 refugees per 1,000 inhabitants and has an average GDP per capita of £595. Monthly asylum figures in countries such as Tanzania and Pakistan are comparable to the annual asylum application statistics of some European countries.

So the vast majority of asylum seekers do go to neighbouring counties, as you want them to. I hope that clears things up for you.

I'll pay for that bloke's Air Ticket out..... any one else want to contribute?
Yes count me in.

The vast majority of asylum seekers do go to neighbouring counties, for example: Guinea, a country with a population of 7 million, is currently home to 3 million Sierra Leonean. In Africa alone, there are 8 million refugees and many millions more who are displaced within their own countries. Although they lack the wealth and stability that the UK enjoys, it is developing countries, such as Pakistan (3,347,717 refugees and asylum seekers, which continue to host the majority of the world's refugees.

The UK hosts just over 3 refugees per 1,000 inhabitants and its average GDP per capita is £22,550. Kenya hosts over 7 refugees per 1,000 inhabitants and has an average GDP per capita of £595. Monthly asylum figures in countries such as Tanzania and Pakistan are comparable to the annual asylum application statistics of some European countries.

So the vast majority of asylum seekers do go to neighbouring counties, as you want them to. I hope that clears things up for you.

Thanks for the facts, but as they weren't lifted from the Sun, can they be believed! :suspect: Just out of interest, I've been reading an article about how immigrant workers have increased revenues for the UK. The link is here http://www.workpermit.com/news/2006_10_27 /uk/immigrants_boost_economy.htm

Bago
As a non-Muslim have you ever been into mosque. Can you speak fluent Arabic or whatever language they use. How many Muslims go into other places of worship than their own. The theory is great but you try to put it into practice.
Believe me I have no hatred for anyone but saying that on SF immediately brands one as racist

I had to think for a moment, why you thought that I had an attitude. Ok, I may come across as quite aggressive to this particular thread. However, I have seen, read, and digested enough of this BS that surrounds immigrants, Islam, and ethnic minorities. I don't normally get that annoyed about, but today, I was dealing with a few threads, all on the same topic. It was just too much. I probably need to chill out a bit, but it really is doing my head in.

To answer your question, I am speaking out against those who stereotype Muslims in this country. Even though, I myself is not a muslim, I cringe when I read these posts, and such stereotypes or prejudices are allowed to be thrown around so easily. Maybe this is one side of British culture that I don't understand. People can voice their discontent, while the sufferers remain in silence. Is it a sarcasm thing, or even satire ? I don't get it. Cos if you were the person being talked about, I don't think you will feel particular good about it.

If I have to clarify myself, then I will say that, I don't mean that a non-believer cannot interpret the Quaran better than the religious believers themselves. Rather, the non-believers should not judge and create their own perception or judgement against those believers. Bottomline is that majority of people believes those who live in Britain and is a muslim must be extremeist, or even be potentially like those in the Middle East. I feel this is a wrong judgement of British Muslims, and this is what I hate.

Unless the non-believers attend the mosques, or even remotely understand what the moques are teaching its followers, how do you know whether this is what all muslims in this country want ? Right ? So, how come the non-believers that reads the Quran, will think so farfetchly that British Muslims will behave like those in the Middle East ? Why make sweeping generalisation ?

are you suggestig that I am stereotyping muslims in this country? If so then I feel you are stereotyping me because I am a white non-muslim, I do take offense at this remark.

Why should I as a non believer attend a mosque? I am not muslim. do you attend christian churches to get an idea of what they're teaching english people?

I don't think people make sweeping generalisations about all muslims at all, and I for one certainly havent - but you have to amit yourself that an extremeist muslim can be quite a dangerous thing (look at 9/11 etc) and this is what is in the forefront of peoples minds in todays society - and rightly so as 'further attacks' have been warned.

We should all be working together to stop this extremism not debating whether I understand islam as well as a muslim.

Jen13k
Well said.
That is what everyone feels.

Bago
As a non-Muslim have you ever been into mosque. Can you speak fluent Arabic or whatever language they use. How many Muslims go into other places of worship than their own. The theory is great but you try to put it into practice.
Believe me I have no hatred for anyone but saying that on SF immediately brands one as racist
No, I haven't yet. No, I can't speak fluent Arabic. I don't know how many other muslims go into other places of workships, I don't have such stats in my back pockets. I do put it into practise. I have attended Christian churches, and I have spoken to other muslims about the religion itself. I do question religions. However, it is not with the intent to hate the believers themselves !

Why do I dislike how you say things, to how I say things ? There is nothing wrong with educating yourself in a religion whether you are a believer or not. However, I don't walk up to a Christian and say that they are brainwashed people. Neither will I go online on an Internet site and sprout such rubbish ! Yes, I may say subjectively that religion may be seen as a brainwashing phenomena, but never will I discredit the actual believers who do follow it ! Why would I be so rude ??

Which is what a lot of people have done, and they continue to do so... The disrespect that they show is phenomenal. I don't know what gives me this confidence to say this, but I don't think that all muslims are extremeists, and I like to think I can tell, if one is. Even if I stupidly encountered someone who is a terrorist, and never knew of his secret. I still will not wash a whole group of people off, and generalise every single one of them.

What I do think is that, a lot of people have lost their objectivity.
For a moment, put yourself in someone else's shoes. If you can't take the kind of pressures exerted on your religious beliefs, then why do it to others ?

I don't even know why I am saying all of this. Maybe I'm trying to redress some of this Islamaphobia balance.

are you suggestig that I am stereotyping muslims in this country? If so then I feel you are stereotyping me because I am a white non-muslim, I do take offense at this remark.
Well, it goes both ways doesn't it ? I don't know whether you mean to stereotype others to begin with in your initial posts, but you certainly did in the end.

Why should I as a non believer attend a mosque? I am not muslim. do you attend christian churches to get an idea of what they're teaching english people?
All I am saying is, don't judge others. Don't use YOUR own perception to judge what others will do. Cos you are not giving them a fair chance. I am not a muslim too. However, I do take the time to talk to muslim people, and I do watch documentary over this stupid Islamphobia cloud hanging over this country. Yes, I did attend a Christian church because my friend asked me to, cos I was visiting. I have been talking to many a Christians over the years about religion. I don't go and read the bible and take a very warped view of it, like some do with the Koran. People interpret it differently, and I talk to them for their own interpretations.

Not allowing others to hold onto their own beliefs to me is ALSO extremeist behaviour too ! It's a belief. You lead your own life, they lead theirs. What is wrong with that ?

Did people pick on Christianity, or Catholicism when the IRA were attempting to bomb Britain ? I mean, how did you know the average White British person then was not a terrorist ? Did people live in fear then ? Was the nation awashed with fear, and did the newspaper play up the religious aspect of the terrorist act itself ? Would you have believed it ? I don't really want to segregate myself from the mainstream of thoughts of this country, but to me, it is stupid, and it is ignorant. Objectivity is losing, and that itself to me is even more scary than any muslim extremeists who may have terroristic intendencies.

An average person lead their own life, reads the newspapers. Think it's right. Accepts it. Stops questioning things. This is scary.

I don't think people make sweeping generalisations about all muslims at all, and I for one certainly havent - but you have to amit yourself that an extremeist muslim can be quite a dangerous thing (look at 9/11 etc) and this is what is in the forefront of peoples minds in todays society - and rightly so as 'further attacks' have been warned.
Are you sure about that yourself ? How we portray ourselves in our minds differs to how we are perceived socially, especially when we don't take others into considerations. Nobody likes this kind of generalisation and judgement of themselves, so why do it to others, when you cannot accept it yourself ??

You think that the people who bombed this country were religious extremeists ? I can tell you that, they are nutters in its own entirety and used religion as an excuse to make themselves known.

It is so easy to read newspapers and to label it simple as "A". Don't you ever read the situation that led up to it ? Don't you wonder what kind of person that nutter was ? Maybe if you did so, then you wouldn't come acros as generalising. The rest of muslim believers don't have to take this kind of criticisms in their everyday lives and live in FEAR ! To me, it's way more than just religion. I applaud the ones who can just sweep it under the carpet and ignore others who hark on about it. People should indeed take responsibility for their own words and actions too.

We should all be working together to stop this extremism not debating whether I understand islam as well as a muslim.
No, we should not work towards anything. I don't want to 'work' with you.

Everyone should at least learn to know their neighbours and root out the nutters, that is what I think.

If people hark on about a lost community spirit, then they should embrace the muslim community to begin with. By saying this, I don't mean to become a muslim, but merely show respect to each other's differences and accepts it on a high-level. Maybe if others do trust you, then they can begin to talk in a more open manner, and not think in fear that you will judge them harshly purely on the basis of their own religious beliefs. However, I don't advocate people to do that if they are not genuine to the possibility of friendships to begin with. Nothing more crass than the feeling that one has been used.

MUSLIN this, MUSLIM that, MUSLIM, MUSLIM, MUSLIM,....dont ya just get fed up with the Muslim garbage being banded about??
Whenever anything kicks off its always the muslims that disagree or object...wonder why??

MUSLIN this, MUSLIM that, MUSLIM, MUSLIM, MUSLIM,....dont ya just get fed up with the Muslim garbage being banded about??
Whenever anything kicks off its always the muslims that disagree or object...wonder why??
Perhaps they are feeling oppressed by the so-called Islamaphobia stage that we're going through at the moment, but the root cause of it all is the complete inability of the Islamic faith to dovetail into a modern society. It has resulted in bizarre mixtures of modern and 15th-century ideals being applied to countries in the middle east (is there any excuse for public stonings in the 21st century?), and is now showing itself through their inability to integrate into a modern Britain.

Well, it goes both ways doesn't it ? I don't know whether you mean to stereotype others to begin with in your initial posts, but you certainly did in the end.


All I am saying is, don't judge others. Don't use YOUR own perception to judge what others will do. Cos you are not giving them a fair chance. I am not a muslim too. However, I do take the time to talk to muslim people, and I do watch documentary over this stupid Islamphobia cloud hanging over this country. Yes, I did attend a Christian church because my friend asked me to, cos I was visiting. I have been talking to many a Christians over the years about religion. I don't go and read the bible and take a very warped view of it, like some do with the Koran. People interpret it differently, and I talk to them for their own interpretations.

Not allowing others to hold onto their own beliefs to me is ALSO extremeist behaviour too ! It's a belief. You lead your own life, they lead theirs. What is wrong with that ?

Did people pick on Christianity, or Catholicism when the IRA were attempting to bomb Britain ? I mean, how did you know the average White British person then was not a terrorist ? Did people live in fear then ? Was the nation awashed with fear, and did the newspaper play up the religious aspect of the terrorist act itself ? Would you have believed it ? I don't really want to segregate myself from the mainstream of thoughts of this country, but to me, it is stupid, and it is ignorant. Objectivity is losing, and that itself to me is even more scary than any muslim extremeists who may have terroristic intendencies.

An average person lead their own life, reads the newspapers. Think it's right. Accepts it. Stops questioning things. This is scary.


Are you sure about that yourself ? How we portray ourselves in our minds differs to how we are perceived socially, especially when we don't take others into considerations. Nobody likes this kind of generalisation and judgement of themselves, so why do it to others, when you cannot accept it yourself ??

You think that the people who bombed this country were religious extremeists ? I can tell you that, they are nutters in its own entirety and used religion as an excuse to make themselves known.

It is so easy to read newspapers and to label it simple as "A". Don't you ever read the situation that led up to it ? Don't you wonder what kind of person that nutter was ? Maybe if you did so, then you wouldn't come acros as generalising. The rest of muslim believers don't have to take this kind of criticisms in their everyday lives and live in FEAR ! To me, it's way more than just religion. I applaud the ones who can just sweep it under the carpet and ignore others who hark on about it. People should indeed take responsibility for their own words and actions too.


No, we should not work towards anything. I don't want to 'work' with you.

Everyone should at least learn to know their neighbours and root out the nutters, that is what I think.

If people hark on about a lost community spirit, then they should embrace the muslim community to begin with. By saying this, I don't mean to become a muslim, but merely show respect to each other's differences and accepts it on a high-level. Maybe if others do trust you, then they can begin to talk in a more open manner, and not think in fear that you will judge them harshly purely on the basis of their own religious beliefs. However, I don't advocate people to do that if they are not genuine to the possibility of friendships to begin with. Nothing more crass than the feeling that one has been used.

I have to say that this whole post has just discreditied everything you've said, there are so many contradications here I wouldn't know where to begin.

I think people with your kind of attitude cause the majority problems.

I do show respect to all cultures and I have to say bago, you certainly do not!

You say "dont use 'YOUR' perception to judge people". well I do! But my perception is based on speaking with many people from various communities and trying to understand all religions. What are your narrow minded perceptions based on exactly?

You sound very young and not too wise either - and that is my perception, take it as you will.

I have to say that this whole post has just discreditied everything you've said, there are so many contradications here I wouldn't know where to begin.
You're entitled to this opinion.

I think people with your kind of attitude cause the majority problems.
Pff....! That's pretty rich. Blame me for your words.

I do show respect to all cultures and I have to say bago, you certainly do not!
Really ? By going against what you wrote ?

You say "dont use 'YOUR' perception to judge people". well I do! But my perception is based on speaking with many people from various communities and trying to understand all religions. What are your narrow minded perceptions based on exactly?
If you did understand all religion, then why do your words come across as demeaning to one group of people ? My 'narrow-minded perception' as you so call it came from talking to friends who are muslim believers. Watching more balanced documentaries of young muslim citizens in this country about their views. Also, the ones that lived in peace and kept themselves to themselves. Cos they are not looking for troubles. Suddenly, there is this "you *must* integrate or else" stance from the PM. What a load of crap.

You sound very young and not too wise either - and that is my perception, take it as you will.
Well, sorry that I have bottled it up for so long. I think I'm entitled to speak my mind for once too. As many others had done in this thread with little regards of other people. I feel that it is just as fair. Brand me a racist, if you will.

That is end of my rant. I'm tired to of it all.

I don't think my words came across as demeaning to one group of people, if they did I am sorry as that was not my intention.

bago, you seem to have difficulty understanding what has been said.

I suggest you re-read the posts carefully and hopefully you'll see the important points.

Well, thank you for being so polite about it. I suppose, I am speaking from an ethnic minority's point of view. So, do excuse me, if I use loosely the term 'we', cos I know you will never agree on that point anyway, as obvious by other comments made in this thread already. (Which is fine by me.)

For my parents generation, they had to battle for their rights to be here. For my generation, we're just about to begin to integrate fully, and to understand life in the UK. However, with the strong hatred, as shown by others here in this thread, this is what many ethnic minorities fear. Will there be a type of 'cleansing' this country will go through ? Will you attack me ? Will I be persecuted in this democratic country and need to flee elsewhere ? That is the question. Although, you said that ethnic minorities have always been accepted and as British, but to me, this whole integration business flagged up *because* many do not know about the country that they live in.

I am always asked, when I arrived in the UK. How come they have not ever seen me around town. How come, I speak English so fluently ? I'm baffled. A lot of people like myself who are 2nd generation are baffled of their own identity. It really does not bode well, when I do not know 'what' I am by social perception. Am I an accepted citizen ? Am I 'British' ? Am I 'English' ?

So excuse me for being hypersensitive in this instance. Cos to me, I don't feel particular that great about what Tony said in his speech. I do think it's stupid. It makes me feel that people have not been entirely honest. So therefore, they don't like 'foreigners' in this country.bago,your post makes it sound as though your the only ones that have had to struggle,i can assure you that you are not,years before your parents arrived here it was the turn of the irish,before them the post war poles and italians,the slavs,and also the jews,the reason they came here was that there was work to be had,there were no benefits system as such,so they had to work to survive,in working they met other people who they got to know as friends,they socialised with one an other and became a valued part of the british way of life, now with todays immigrants its usually the free houses and benefits that attract them,ask your parents,i bet they got sod all when they came here,they had to work.

thats what people mean when they say integrate,get a job,socialise pay your way and you will be accepted, claim benefits,cover yourself in anonymyty shun your neighbour and suspicion will follow,with that suspicion will come hate,we know from history what happens next.

the general idea of working and paying taxes has now been well forgotten by some,and its those people that we do not need,its workers that should be welcomed,not scroungers,thieves and gangsters,which appears to be the case

But this is the thing. My family may have done this, and that UK had little on social benefits at the time. However, change the social services then. We cannot pick and choose which immigrant groups will be the better for Britain. That's just discriminatory ! If we open the door, we let anyone in. That's the rule. Either don't set the social security system to be as such, OR limit control on the immigrants which enters this country. FROM this point onwards. Don't hark on about the past. Don't make those that are already in the UK feel crap. Even if its not from outside Europe, it will be from INSIDE Europe !

The thing that truly gets me is this antagonism by the general population, who do not give much thought about voting the system out, but complaining and moaning at others, the migrants themselves. Which I feel is wrong.

Even if a migrant had no hatred for Britain, we will groom such people from this country, because of how people are treated here. Do you feel this is the right way to go about it too ? We cannot blame others for how we are perceived abroad on an International scale. How we are thugs, or racists, and how we claim to be discriminatory. I've seen a lot of threads by oversea students from different countries asking whether the city that they want to study in are actually that rough ! God help us, if they get such a bad press of the UK.

If the government was smart, then a smarter strategy would've been put into place. No matter, how people are, there will always be cliques here and there. If certain neighbourhood wishes to be completely white, will you rant and shout ? If certain neighbourhoods are predominantly Asian, or Chinese, will you rave and shout ? Cos certain areas are. They're in little small groups. Usually it must be because of some attraction which entice them to be in that area. Whether it is a mosque, or a private school, or a supermarket. Or even a pub.

To be honest with you, yes, I will and can only think that my family struggled. Since I don't know what life was like in the past. Yet, others also think that THEIR family struggled. Which makes us all even then, doesn't it ? I just don't brag about it, or rant about it. Maybe I am not that particularly political in nature, hence I don't necessarily voice my opinions so strongly. Every family has their stories. I just feel that, people should let go of the past, and move forward from this point onwards. The past is to be remembered always. The next generation are educated to remember in their schoolings anyway, but you must forward too. Regardless of whether it is people who made this country that are here by fighting in the war. If we let anyone through the door, then it means that they too have a right to workm and be a part of it. I sense that, a lot of people don't allow others to make this difference.

I'm sometimes surprised that I'm not radicalised by now. Ignorance is sometimes bliss.

ok then ,put up the sign,no entry unless you have a permenant job and a house to go to,no social security benefits until you have paid into the system,no students unless contracted to work in britain for 3 years after gaining a degree,that should put britain back in shape, now about the scroungers terrorists,gangsters,criminals already here, how do we sort them out,most will be underground or on the run,these are the ones we need to remove not the afore mentioned,after all do we care if mr foreigner gets an education?,do we really need another street cleaner or hospital cleaner?,there are thousands of kids out there who cant read and write properly that can be made to do theses jobs, its not as easy as you seem to think it is,the damage has already been done due to slack immigration laws,other countries dont seem to have the problem because they live in the real world,they see what is happening now,we need the past to act as a measure as to how things have changed,what about the people who have worked all their lives and now find there will be no pension for them,and they are expected now to work till they are almost at their deaths? no bleeding hearts for them,no marches and riots,priorities,thats what we need ,and a government that has a bit of backbone

no students unless contracted to work in britain for 3 years after gaining a degree

Yes thats a fantastic idea - we should definitely exclude the best and the brightest (and a major source of money) from our universities.

the damage has already been done due to slack immigration laws,other countries dont seem to have the problem because they live in the real world,they see what is happening now,we need the past to act as a measure as to how things have changed,what about the people who have worked all their lives and now find there will be no pension for them,and they are expected now to work till they are almost at their deaths? no bleeding hearts for them,no marches and riots,priorities,thats what we need ,and a government that has a bit of backbone

exactly, the government should have concentrated on looking after our own before footing the bill of asylum seekers wanting a free medical system etc.

I remember watching a documentary which stated that the cost of someone with HIV costs the NHS £50,000 a year, and illegal immigrants (and legal too) were finding ways to come here from all over including nigeria, zimbabwe, to basically get free treatment.

I certainly wouldn't wish HIV on anyone, but when our hospitals are crammed to breaking point, the NHS is in massive debt and pensioners are living on the breadline, we need to start looking after our 'own' before becomming a charity to foreigners.
(sorry I know this is slightly off topic but I had to have my rant):hihi:

I once saw a lot of graffitti in Tenerife that said, "get out of our country, and give back our jobs".
I've never seen it. Where was that? Just curious :)

I've never seen it. Where was that? Just curious :)

I have seen this also, it was in white spray paint on a wooden fence. It was going west out of Adeje, I was lost when I first arrived and it was the first thing I saw when walking around. It's near a large discount supermarket and diving gear store, about 10 mis walk from the large radio mast.

ok then ,put up the sign,no entry unless you have a permenant job and a house to go to,no social security benefits until you have paid into the system,no students unless contracted to work in britain for 3 years after gaining a degree,that should put britain back in shape, now about the scroungers terrorists,gangsters,criminals already here, how do we sort them out,most will be underground or on the run,these are the ones we need to remove not the afore mentioned,after all do we care if mr foreigner gets an education?,do we really need another street cleaner or hospital cleaner?,there are thousands of kids out there who cant read and write properly that can be made to do theses jobs, its not as easy as you seem to think it is,the damage has already been done due to slack immigration laws,other countries dont seem to have the problem because they live in the real world,they see what is happening now,we need the past to act as a measure as to how things have changed,what about the people who have worked all their lives and now find there will be no pension for them,and they are expected now to work till they are almost at their deaths? no bleeding hearts for them,no marches and riots,priorities,thats what we need ,and a government that has a bit of backbone

So what about the indigenous, white, crooks, gangsters, dolecheats, scroungers, murderers, rapists, child-abusers? Are they ok then? Because they outnumbers the immigrant population by a good whack round where I live. You won't find many blacks or asians round Aston and Swallownest, but by God we've got our fair of work-shy spongers. Shall we ship them off somewhere too?

So what about the indigenous, white, crooks, gangsters, dolecheats, scroungers, murderers, rapists, child-abusers? Are they ok then? Because they outnumbers the immigrant population by a good whack round where I live. You won't find many blacks or asians round Aston and Swallownest, but by God we've got our fair of work-shy spongers. Shall we ship them off somewhere too?

Australia? now that would be a new idea :lol:

Agreed, but since it's an international law, we are not permitted to simply change it. We'd need international agreement.

Matthew Parris made the point pretty sharply in a Times article a year or two back, when he mentioned that if everyone who's entitled to seek asylum in the UK actually did so, our population would be more than two billion. :o Unfortunately, until such an obviously silly outcome actually *happens*, it'd be political suicide for any party to suggest withdrawing from the current laws.

Your first point, about international law is completely false. It is not analogous to domestic law within sovereign states, in that it rests almost entirely upon voluntary obligations by states. The UK could, if it so desired, withdraw from its supposed obligations under the various human rights acts and we would not require the approval of other stats in order to do this.

Your second point is simply a crude and complacent restatement of 'they won't all come' argument which has done so much damage to UK immigration policy since it was first enunciated in the late 1940s. Thus the British Nationality Act of 1948 effectively gave any person in any territories of the British Empire (later Commonwealth) the right to enter Britain. At that time, the population of these territories amounted to over 800 million. Of course, 800 million didn't pack their bags and head for the UK, but millions did. When the potential implications of this reckless, indeed ludicrous, legislation were pointed out, the response was that only a few would want to come anyway, because (among other reasons) the weather would be too cold for them and in any case they would not be able to afford the fare! A similar degree of complacency has underpinned our approach to asylum policy in recent years.

It is surprising that you mention Parris in support of your views, as he has written very cogently in support of much tighter immigration controls, which he thinks are inevitable.