I just have found out that the house that was built next to mine has run a sewage drain into a disused drain on my land. I have been told that there drains should have been run straight into the main drain in the road, but it appears that it was closer, cheaper and easier to run them into an old man hole on my land.

My house was built in the mid eighteenth century and the old man hole was for a long gone outside toilet. Because of the age of my house the local water authority would have been responsible for any repairs to my drains. Now that the new house drains run into mine it would appear that they are not there responcibility anymore.

If I now have a problem with this drain who is responsible?

Any Ideas

do you have a household insurance policy? dig it out, read the small print, and find the phone number for the free legal advice line usually provided with it ;)

How come you have only just noticed this? When was it done?

For advice on matters like this I find the following website very helpful, copy your posting on here www.gardenlaw.co.uk (http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk)

Up unto the boundary walls of your property it's your responsibility.

The local water authority owns the mains supply and sewer but after the service pipe it's all down to you.

Up unto the boundary walls of your property it's your responsibility.

The local water authority owns the mains supply and sewer but after the service pipe it's all down to you.

This is not true because my house was build so long ago the local water authority is responsible (or was until the new drain was added).

How come you have only just noticed this? When was it done?

We noticed a strong smell of sewage around my drive area and today a friend came to find out why, I have lived in the house for twelve years and never knew there was a drain under the drive paving until now. When we lifted the slabs in the drive that showed signs of staining we found an old manhole that had a disused drain that runs to where an old outside toilet used to be. We also found a drain that had been put into the manhole from the new house nextdoor, this house was finished being build about 3 months before I moved into my house.

but you don't use this drain?

So isn't it their drain - it just passes through your property - which is exactly why they are supposed to take the shortest route to the street :mad:

whatever you do, hold off on rigning the water company (which you do need to do) until you've got the legal advice, and have written at least 2 letters to the company taht built the new house (presumably you know who taht was, or can find out if you can't remember) - letter one should state that you are not happy with the situation, and would like them to remove the pipework from your land, otherwise you will seek legal advice. there are almost certainly some building regulations that state why taht is unacceptable - perhaps one or two of the forum's resident builders could help with taht. letter two should state that you would like the work done by a certain date, and taht you hold them entirely responsible for any and all costs involved in maintenance, repair, and rectification. expand your threat to legal action as you've already sought legal aid (ok, even if that's only the CAB), repeat exaclty why it is unacceptable, and copy this second letter to any body which you can find that the house buildy company is answerable to (say that you're copying it in this manner in the body of the letter). also request that they provide you with any paperwork that justifies why they have annexed your drain.

letter 3 becomes more difficult...:rolleyes:

Wouldn't the planning consent show what had been approved for the drainage/sewerage system for the house next door?

was that recent enough to still be online?

I just have found out that the house that was built next to mine has run a sewage drain into a disused drain on my land. I have been told that there drains should have been run straight into the main drain in the road, but it appears that it was closer, cheaper and easier to run them into an old man hole on my land.

My house was built in the mid eighteenth century and the old man hole was for a long gone outside toilet. Because of the age of my house the local water authority would have been responsible for any repairs to my drains. Now that the new house drains run into mine it would appear that they are not there responcibility anymore.

If I now have a problem with this drain who is responsible?

Any Ideas

If you care to PM me I shall be happy to come along and install a drain bung in the pipe where it enters your manhole. This is, literally, a two minute job and they then have a total blockage where nothing can get through to the sewer. I would happily perform this service FOC.

When Dynorod, or some such like, are sent for they will most likely request access to your land in order to rod the drain from your manhole. Refuse the request and advise that they should go through your solicitor. I would like to bet that they would have their drain re-routed to the proper place PDQ.

so the drain has been there for 11 years.

The new house should have been built with the local Building Inspectors, by delegation from the water authority, having responsibility for the drainage. The local building inspector would / should have inspected and approved the drainage works. It is not uncommon for for a supposed 'drain' ( a private matter) being confused with a sewer (property of the authority) - one has to have permission to build over a sewer and one is not permited to build over a manhole on a public sewer.

So your first point of call may be the building control dept which is Burgess st at the side of cole brothers (in the building linked to coles by a bridge). They are a dept of the local authority and some of the most helpful people working for the town hall.

They will have sound advice and records which they can refer to. The computer records go back many years and so they will be able to give you reference numbers and the relevant BC officers who dealt with this application.

You may be making much ado about nothing - it's not uncommon for drains to run through land belonging to others. Equally you may have come across an illegal connection. Whatever you do ignore the advice given by mr haggard as if the arrangement is legal and approved you will be the 'guilty party'.

Look before you leap.

Hope that helps.
The smell is a bit worying, but from what you have said the drains were not blocked. If it's been 'working' for 12 years I cant see a problem unless you wish to build over.

I suspect it is, in fact, a sewer, public property and the neighbour may have every right to connect to it. Chill, 'till you know exactly what the issues are.

Redrob, it's building control, not planning, who 'look after' drainage, although the designer is wise to check whether the property can be drained before proceeding very far with the design work...

Rule of thumb is that a sewer serves three or more properties (if my memory serves me)

check here

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/environment/how-we-work/buildingstandards-building-control/contact-us

Haggardriley, catch a grip, you sound like the neighbour from hell. The kind of person who causes others problems over issues like essential scaffolding on adjoining owners land required to fix your gable end - permitted btw (as long as appropriate notice is given).

If it's a very old drain it could well be designated as a sewer, don'tcha know. Get the facts before you muscle in.

We've all got to learn to live together.

I would check that the chamber your neighbour connected to is a foul or combined system chamber, although if it was originally an outside wc it would be foul.
If it turns out to be a surface water system, designed to take rainwater only it will be contaminating a watercourse somewhere which is illegal.

what you say about the local water authority being responisible is correct due to the age of the property (they took responsibility of private drains over a certain age, however this is provided no alterations have been made to the system, when they removed the original wc that would have been an alteration so that part is now your responsibility.

In this case because it is not serving your property now the line is his responsibility, if you can prove you have no live connections to it from your property, a camera survey is the best way of proving this. as not all connections run to a manhole some are 'blind'.

but you don't use this drain?

So isn't it their drain - it just passes through your property - which is exactly why they are supposed to take the shortest route to the street :mad:

This was not the shortest route to the street it was a longer run to the street, they took the short route into my manhole.

If it is a sewer it is NOT "your manhole". It is a public sewer access chamber on your property.

Have you checked out the leads I gave you to the Building control section? I'm interested on how you got on.

If it is a sewer it is NOT "your manhole". It is a public sewer access chamber on your property.

Have you checked out the leads I gave you to the Building control section? I'm interested on how you got on.

Let me explain a little more, my house was built in the mid-eighteinth century. It had at a later date an outside toilet built, the drain from that toilet ran from the toilet to a manhole, then from the manhole to the sewer in the road. When the bathroom was made inside the house the drain from that bathroom was taken to a new manhole at the fromt of the house and then into the main sewer in the road. The old toilet manhole was now un-used and blocked off.

When the new house was built nextdoor they took the drain from the house into the disused manhole on my drive. This was the shortest and easiest route to take, at the time this happened my house was un-occupied.

By running their drains into my drains they have changed its clasification from public sewer to private sewer thus making me and the responsible for repairs,.

My point is that if no other drains run into the manhole, because of the age of my house the local waterboard is responsible for its repair.

Haggardriley, catch a grip, you sound like the neighbour from hell. The kind of person who causes others problems over issues like essential scaffolding on adjoining owners land required to fix your gable end - permitted btw (as long as appropriate notice is given).

You've got me all wrong mate. I would never cause problems over those sort of issues. Anyone can have access to my land if they ask and it's for a legitimate reason and they agree to compensate me for any damage which they may cause.

As for the gable end scenario, I'm probably fortunate insofar as I don't have any other property within 60 metres of my house. :D :bigsmile: :lol:

my apologies, HR, I had a vision of you causing people to squat on their own ****1.

Paul, I'm working on a house of a similar age, as it happens - major restoration jobby. lol

thanks for your explanation. It still sounds like a building control issue, in the first instance at least. If nothing alse, B control are vigilant about drains, so I doubt it could have been done without their consent and inspection.

It's so long ago that I doubt anything can be done about it, should you wish to. I'm not exactly clear as to the time limit on these matters, I think it's 10 or 11 years for established use in planning terms, but it's a legal issue.

The planners and building control officers will be able to advise you 'for free' in the first instance. I'm not sure if the 'established use' rules apply to drains.

I'b be interested to hear how you get on.

There's no deemed planning consent for underground services so the 10/11 year thing doesn't apply here. They are breaking the law. Unless they have an easement or other consent it's a straight forward case. If necessary you should be able to invoke the famous Rylands -v- Fletcher (1868 ) case law on a simple premise of discharge of effluent liquids from their property onto yours. The presence of sewage effluent only adds some extra amusement.

Step 1 - solicitors letter with a time limit that's a bit shorter than you will accept.
Step 2 - well, if they have any sense there won't be a step 2.
Step 3 - If you have gone past step 2, hire a digger for the day, dig a hole on the boundary on your side and backfill their outlet with concrete.
Step 4 - Wait. :)



*this is not legal advice :)

Hi every one, I am in need of a brilliant solicitor who believes in right and wrong and does not make the excuse for settling rather than fighting a case.I have empoyeed an Architect to sort out a run down and subsiding house instead of him looking after my intrest I feel he has been working in the builders intrest, allowing him to add on to the bill and take as long as they wish. Iam in dispute with both regarding the bill. they never sent a certificate for the underpining nor any receipt for all the payments I have made despite asking.

Do check your title deeds. You neighbour may have "right of way" over your land for drainage. My neighbours certainly do. I think it's called a drainage easement.

If he does have a drainage easement, then the deeds will likely also specify that he has joint maintanence liability as well. Similar to party walls and shared rainwater downpipes.

paul 20.
Hi mate,being a drainage engineer let me enlighten
you.
Firstly.The drain at the side of your house doesnt become a public sewer if someone else taps a connection into it,it will never become a public sewer,this is because it is only taking 2 houses,even if it was taking 10 houses it still wouldnt be a public sewer its what you call a section 24 sewer or private manhole.
Not having a dig at you mate just shedding a bit of light on it.
The water authority will only take responsibility for your drain if your property was built before 1936.
If you have noticed staining under the slabs especially foul then even though the drain has been in working order theres everychance that there is a leak and this will soak into the ground and will go un noticed untill a big hole appears due to subsidence caused by the leak.


No need for a cctv survey,you can save yourself a whole wad of cash by carrying out a simple dye test,do yourself,dont watse your cash,i would do it you for free even provide the dye.

paul 20.
Hi mate,being a drainage engineer let me enlighten
you.
Firstly.The drain at the side of your house doesnt become a public sewer if someone else taps a connection into it,it will never become a public sewer,this is because it is only taking 2 houses,even if it was taking 10 houses it still wouldnt be a public sewer its what you call a section 24 sewer or private manhole.
Not having a dig at you mate just shedding a bit of light on it.
The water authority will only take responsibility for your drain if your property was built before 1936.
If you have noticed staining under the slabs especially foul then even though the drain has been in working order theres everychance that there is a leak and this will soak into the ground and will go un noticed untill a big hole appears due to subsidence caused by the leak.


No need for a cctv survey,you can save yourself a whole wad of cash by carrying out a simple dye test,do yourself,dont watse your cash,i would do it you for free even provide the dye.


My house was built in 1764 and the house next door was built in 1996

Do check your title deeds. You neighbour may have "right of way" over your land for drainage. My neighbours certainly do. I think it's called a drainage easement.

If he does have a drainage easement, then the deeds will likely also specify that he has joint maintanence liability as well. Similar to party walls and shared rainwater downpipes.
how can his deeds have provision for a house built over 100 years later? :confused:

It's quite possible for an adjoining property to have an easement or other entitlement without a having a building on it. Unlikely, but entirely possible.