If Moazzam Begg, from Birmingham, and Feroz Abbasi, from London are found to be guilty in Guantanamo Bay for being members of al Qaida.

Then this goverment should deport the Begg & Abbasi families out from this country..

And asylem seekers in Covenrty are being given free driving lessons what ever next :?

I'm not really that happy about someone facing a secret trial - why not let them be tried by a jury?

Regardless of what they may have done, they are British Citizans and our government should take action to ensure that they are tried fairly.

Not sure what asylum seekers in Coventry has got to do with the price of fish...

British al Qaida Citizans should get a fare trail Ha tell that to the families these peole have killed...

These British citizans should not have been fighting for al Qaida they live in Britain and if they don't like our country and our rules then leave.

Just pointing out Asylem seekers make me sick

One of them was arrested in Pakistan and it is more than likely that he is a victim of mistaken identity.

Would you be happy to have him executed knowing that he has been wrongly accused?

Originally posted by Jon
British al Qaida Citizans should get a fare trail Ha tell that to the families these peole have killed...


That's the purpose of a trial. To establish whether they did kill people or not. If they're found guilty, then they should be punished, but not until we're sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were guilty.

How would you feel if you were dragged from your home in the middle of the night and executed without getting the chance to say that it wasn't you? And America have got it wrong before - remember earlier this year, when they had a British pensioner locked up in South Africa becase they thought he was someone else?

I'm not trying to defend what they may have done - just saying lets not shoot now and ask questions later.

But what if they are found guilty don't think the Sun Newspaper will start "FREE THE British al Qaida Citizans Campain" do you...

Should the families of these people then be depoted?

The question about the familes is a hard one. If they're al Qaida supporters then yes, they should go.

However, it's possible they knew nothing of what their family members were planning, so I don't think we're in a position to make that decission.

These people are terrorists!!!

Originally posted by halevan
These people are terrorists!!!

They're suspected terrorists.

Originally posted by Andy
They're suspected terrorists. but British so they must be innocent rite?

Originally posted by Jon
but British so they must be innocent rite?

It doesn't matter what nationality they are they should still be given a fair trial.

Originally posted by Jon
But what if they are found guilty don't think the Sun Newspaper will start "FREE THE British al Qaida Citizans Campain" do you...

Should the families of these people then be depoted?

...someones got an axe to grind haven't they?...don't you ever get into the legal profession ...God help us all if you do!

These people ARE innocent, until proven guilty that is.

Always amuses me when people conveniently forget this...

Indeed WaxyChuff.

Unless our comrades would prefer a regime of guilty until proven innocent? To listen to them I sometimes think they believe in the priniciple.

maybe we should also reintroduce trial by ordeal, and trial by combat - think of the effects on crime and the cheap TV to be made!

Originally posted by Jon
but British so they must be innocent rite?

Please don't put words into my mouth.

I don't know whether they're innocent or guilty. That's why I want them to be tried infront of a judge and jury.

I do believe that everyone, regardless of where they were born, is entitled to some basic human rights. One of those is the right to a fair trial.

It's Sheff - - I'm back - - - Have just watched "Ben Hur" for the umpteenth time - - - - The crucifixion scene - - - Reminded me that most of the residents in Guantanamo are living in the calendar year 1400 and some thing - - - - I think our history records that as a time of persecution - and - crusades etc.
Imprisonment and even death sentences on suspicion only.

Ring any Bells
I will duck now
Sheff.

:loopy:

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1676&highlight=Guantanamo :thumbsup: been done

Originally posted by Jon
http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1676&highlight=Guantanamo :thumbsup: been done

Thanks Jon, threads merged.

Sheff again
Started something there - - most of you are missing the point!
They live by a 1400 century calendar and creed - - - send them back to Afghanistan to be stoned! !

Originally posted by Jon
Just pointing out Asylem seekers make me sick
People like you make me sick.

You don't think that there are people who have a legitimate right to asylum? Go have a look round http://www.amnesty.org/ for starters.

Even if an individual is found guilty of being involved in terrorist activities, what the hell has that got to do with their families?

One - maybe two were misguided individuals - - - Religeous nuts if you like - - - the camps were not there for nothing - - - they trained fanatics - - suicide bombers - - SLEEPERS - - - - wake up you bleeding hearts - - - Madrid ? ? - - it will happen here - - -
Whats that island in the Hebrides - - - infected with Anthrax??
Send them there - - and let them practise the survival skills they were taught in Afghanistan.

Not one of these people is a 'proper citizen' so why the hell are 'we' (not me) so pleased to see the terrorists return to English soil. Leave the lot of them to rot in Cuba. None of them has a good reason to have been in the war zone and ALL of them had started travelling there immediately before or after the war started. They have all got suspect links to extremists and some of the stories they are telling are obviously false, let's face it you dont accidentally stray in to Afghanistan do you? The US would not risk torturing these scumbags however worthless they are because of the press. As for newspapers paying the terrorists that have been returned, this I find totally unacceptable and should be blocked by the government, not that this **** weak Labour effort have any teeth or will to do this.

Sheff - - to MI-5
Good on you mate - - you are getting the picture!
If one is enamoured with the beliefs and culture of these way out nations - - - go as asylum seekers - - - adopt their way of life - Don't import it here - - - - .
Mind indoctrination has been used by all kinds of idealistic creeds - - - - - What else were the camps for.
The cure - - in olden days - - - would have been a little lead pill.
I leave the rest to your imagination.
Sheff

anyone else find it strange that here are 5 men who are held for two years in a prison camp, and then released without charge by the american military, and again then the british police.

Anyone else know why they were imprisoned in the first place?

Originally posted by MI-5
the Germans had a prcatice run in WW2 but I am not sure if that would be legal now, probably not
Once again the morons crawl out of the woodwork

Originally posted by MI-5
I am going for a lie down in cool dark room for an hour.
Yeah, get back to whacking off to your BNP posters - please stay there.

Wow, hugely off topic from Guantanomo in a relatively short time. I read reports about the guys that were returned to the UK. After the American administration had come out with great quotes like "they are all hardened terrorists" and 'detained on the battlefield with weapons', they had to admit that there was no evidence at all. After 200 interviews with American and British interrogators, there was nothing to link these guys to al-Quaeda or any other terror groups. One of them was not even arrested in Afghanistan, but in bed with his wife in Islamabad. Hardly 'on the battlefield with weapons'.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1168976,00.html



I am remimded of the Guildford Four and the Birmingham Six, and the widespread violence against Irish Immigrants. I'm sure groups like the BNP and NF would have wanted to send all Irish immigrants home, even though the convicted had done nothing wrong.

As for deporting their parents, last time I checked, parents cannot be held responsible for the unproven crimes of their grown up children.

Try and keep this on-topic now please.

One detainee is 13 years old. Several released Afghanis were conscripted by the Taliban (ie didn't have a choice) including 60 and 70 year olds and others with senile dementia.
There are over 10 Kuwaiti Aid Workers banged up there because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and God knows how many more.
Most of these people will be left to rot because the Yanks can't afford to be left with egg on their faces by admitting the majority of detainees are either innocent or hapless foot soldiers.

With all this talk about terror and weapons of mass destruction let's consider who's plastered the civilian areas of Iraq with unexploded cluster bombs and depleted uranium (I'm not sure if this constitutes a "dirty bomb", a chemical weapon or a biological weapon. ) Anyway Iraqi kids that aren't having arms and legs blown off can look forward to leukaemia, breast cancer etc in a few years time. Of course they run the risk of being abducted off the streets by the US military and detained for weeks in a primitive prison without the knowledge of their parents.

The US was created out of the genocide of it's native peples and they carry on in much the same way today with a callous and racist disregard for other peoples. In fact by sponsoring death squads in Gauetemala in the 1980's they made sure that a 100,000 more Injuns "bit the dust" .Guantanamo is a modern reservation, the food may be better but the human rights are more degrading.

As a final thought which country is not prepared to sign up to a ban on land mines, international courts on war crimes etc? Which country is engaged in torture at Bagram air base?
It's the one for which 1951 was a landmark year... the first time in over a 100 years with no record of a public lynching of a black man.

Democracy? don't make me laugh

for christ sake im sick of hearing about "the kid who got his arms blown off". its war, it happens everywhere, not just americans on iraqis. im not in support of te war, or against it for hat matter. now i dont know anythig about wot actually was going on with the weapons of mass destructon, and to be honest, im not p****** and moaning and all that worried about a terrorist attack. ive been in situations when ive been in much more danger, but if u keep being scared and petrified then u are just fulfilling wot the terrorists want.

Spanish elections influenced - - - - European ministers to meet in conference - - - - -cause - - - the affiliates of Guantanamo Bay (suspects) detainees - - - - do you want to be on the next train?
Sheff

Getting those few blokes back seems to have been the only tangible benefit from the 'special relationship' we have with the US. Ministers should accept that if they think it is wrong for British citizens to be interned there, then it is wrong no matter where you come from. The Americans have made a big deal of how they are giving mercy, and doing it as a favour to the British government. All the other countries with people there will have a snowballs chance in hell of ever seeing them again.

On another note, why on earth do the Cubans put up with the US having a military base there anyway? They've spent decades trying to annoy Cuba in every way, to try to get it to amend its naughtiness...

If people (for whatever reason) go abroad to fight against British forces in time of war they are surley guilty of treason, which still tecnically carries the death penalty in this country.

Originally posted by slimsid2000
still tecnically carries the death penalty in this country.
No it doesn't.

Who says they were fighting British forces? If they were, would they have been released?
What if the British forces themselves are in breach of International Law? Should Blair be charged with war crimes?
Sad to see that some folks in this forum aren't concerned about limbless kids and of course it's not just the one shown on telly is it? I bet there are a few out there don't think he should have been treated on the NHS either. Good publicity for Tony though eh ? what a generous guy, he brings at ear to my eye. It's a pity that the media didn't film the hundreds of others and they may have had decent treatment as well.

In a way Bush and Blair are worse than Al-Queda at least they don't try to disguise their motives, actions and opinions. Our elected representatives lie to us, put us in mortal danger and spend our money to promote US business interests in the guise of defending democracy.
Their own high-profile religious views encourage Muslims to see the UK and US as modern Crusader States and whose to say they are wrong? I'm not sure what views Christ would have about lying, invading other countries and killing civilians. I do wish I believed in hell myself, as it would give me great pleasure to think of Tony, George, Osama and Sadaam being toasted together for eternity.

Those people in Guantanamo should be charged or released from the barbaric conditions in which they are being kept. Is this civilised behaviour? The only thing this policy is achieving is a massive recruitment drive for extremists

Originally posted by Sidla
No it doesn't.

It does doesn't it?

Originally posted by t020
It does doesn't it?

As i undertsand it there are only two crimes for which you can still be executed in this country,possibly a third in wartime(treason)

that is killing the monarch and Arson in Her Majesties Dockyard.

other information about the death penalty are contained in

"Articles of war" specific to the armed forces.

As ever i stand to give way on this should anyone have better information

Originally posted by t020
It does doesn't it?
No. I can't be arsed googling because I know this is a fact.

Even if there was some stupid 500 year old law that says you'll be executed for killing Liz or burning her favourite ship, I would imagine the law would be changed before the sentence could be passed.

Originally posted by Sidla
No. I can't be arsed googling because I know this is a fact.

Even if there was some stupid 500 year old law that says you'll be executed for killing Liz or burning her favourite ship, I would imagine the law would be changed before the sentence could be passed.

Doesn't change the fact that as it stands now, death sentences do exist for crimes such as treason. Theoretical or not, they do *exist*.

There is also a law that states on a certain fay of each year in a certain English town it is legal to kill a welshman.

Doesn't mean you'd not get done for murder if you did it!

Originally posted by t020
Doesn't change the fact that as it stands now, death sentences do exist for crimes such as treason.
No they don't.

According to http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/timeline.html:
27th January 1999. The Home Secretary (Jack Straw) formally signed the 6th protocol of the European Convention of Human Rights in Strasbourg, on behalf of the British government formally abolishing the death penalty in the UK. It had been still theoretically available for treason and piracy up to then but it was extremely unlikely that even if anyone had been convicted of these crimes over the preceding 30 years that they would have actually been executed. Successive Home Secretaries had always reprieved persons sentenced to death in the Channel Islands and Isle of Man where the death sentence for murder could still be passed and the Royal Prerogative was observed.

Originally posted by Ned Ludd

In a way Bush and Blair are worse than Al-Queda



Hardly. Who is more likely to bomb London (or Sheffield for that matter), Bush/Blair or Al-Queda? I think some people need to decide who's side they are on!

I heard Cuba is nice at this time of year. I wonder how much it is for 2 weeks all inclusive at Guantanamo Bay? :D