http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=1900959

It's funny how this has been brought up in the paper today, as it was only Friday night when I was queueing for 20mins to get into the car park :rant: There are far too many taxis for the station to cope with in it's present state, and all they do is block up the drop off/pick up point so nobody can get through. Those of us wanting to get to the car park, can't - we're just stood still doing nothing. Further taxis park on both sides of the already narrow one-way streets hoping to get their fare.

Can't the council reduce the amount of taxis they allow onto the station to pick up fares until the redevelopment is completely finished? I know the interchanges don't allow too many taxis on site to stop this sort of congestion.

As the link states, people are getting £6 fares just for going 200metres down the road. It's ludicrous :loopy:

I'd rather walk to the main road and flag one down!

Hey, I was in the same traffic jam on Friday.

To be fair I don't think the taxis were the major cause of this. I believe the main culprits are people who arrive at the pick up point when the person they are picking up hasn't arrived yet - then they just wait and the whole thing jams up.

At about 6:45 on Friday I believe one person at the station caused a gridlock which spread about 1/2 mile on the surrounding roads. After about 10 minutes of absolute gridlock my partner got out of the car and manged to persaude the offending driver to move and everything was OK after that.

A more recent problem is the road leading to the taxi rank/ pick-up point has now been reduced to one car width.

Never mind, it will be all finished by December, alledgedly.

To be fair I don't think the taxis were the major cause of this. I believe the main culprits are people who arrive at the pick up point when the person they are picking up hasn't arrived yet - then they just wait and the whole thing jams up.
I have to agree with that, it's very true... Hence why I use the car park. You can park FREE for 40mins.. it's not exactly a mile's walk to the station from there, it takes mins max! 40mins give you chance to drop off, walk to station with the traveller, help them with their bags if needs be, wave them off and move your car!!

If it's going to be finished in December - it looks nowhere near ready!

I didn't realise about the free parking, maybe they should put up a big sign to make that clear.

Last time I was there it did seem to be the dropping off/picking up cars that were causing most of the gridlock rather than the taxis.

The culprits arn't the people dropping others off, or the taxis:

Coun Paul Scriven, leader of the Liberal Democrats, said: "Clearly there is a big problem due to the lack of planning regarding capacity at the station. This has caused chaos for commuters and taxi drivers alike. But the problem could have been avoided if the council's planners had listened to taxi drivers and ourselves who flagged the potential problem up when changes to the station were first considered. The blame for this mess lies squarely with the council and its now up to them to sort things out."

Did the council seriously not think that a TRAIN STATION would not generate the need for people to be dropped off? The car park is a fair trek for anyone who has a hefty amount of baggage, which train travellers tend to have.

The culprits arn't the people dropping others off, or the taxis:

Coun Paul Scriven, leader of the Liberal Democrats, said: "Clearly there is a big problem due to the lack of planning regarding capacity at the station. This has caused chaos for commuters and taxi drivers alike. But the problem could have been avoided if the council's planners had listened to taxi drivers and ourselves who flagged the potential problem up when changes to the station were first considered. The blame for this mess lies squarely with the council and its now up to them to sort things out."

Did the council seriously not think that a TRAIN STATION would not generate the need for people to be dropped off? The car park is a fair trek for anyone who has a hefty amount of baggage, which train travellers tend to have.



Oh yes i would think so..kowing the the traffic planners in Sheffield they don't seem to listen to anyone. Its not the fault of taxi drivers or people wanting to drop people off at the station. After all thats what cars and taxis go there for?? It would appear to me when I hace been stuck there that the road could have been better designed and widened in certain areas to help with the temporary bottle necks.

"We're currently monitoring the situation and are trying to encourage visitors to the station, wherever possible, to use the free short stay car parking facilities in the nearby multi-storey car park".
That's all very well, but if you're coming from St. Mary's Road or Queens Road you have to use the highly-congested Fornham Street to get to the car park. That just adds to the chaos... :rolleyes:

Up to now I'd been hoping that the mad pick-up/drop-off arrangement they've got down there was temporary - now it's becoming increasingly clear that it's actually meant to be like that.

The Council really should have gone to look at similar facilities at (say) Manchester Piccadilly - that would have shown how inadequate the provision is in Sheffield.

I feel particularly sorry for the taxi drivers who waste productive time queueing to get into the station - and their customers who then pay a fortune to get out... :loopy:

So much for encouraging people to use the train!

Another transport blunder from Labour - cheers guys. :rolleyes:

Another transport blunder from Labour - cheers guys. :rolleyes:

Lol so so true

It does also highlight the practice of many black cabs who seem to wish to sit around in a massive queue for hours on end, for the privilege of a station fare.
Must be some money in it!

York's Lib Dem council, who share a similar anti-car policy to our council, recently thought it would be a good idea to redesign York Station's forecourt.

The result now is that, if you hire a black cab at a busy time, it will have cost you £3 before the cab has managed to pull out of the station and onto Station Rise. It takes a lifetime to get out due to congestion, the like of which wasn't there before the council once again deemed it fit to get involved.

Maybe Mr Scriven ought to take a trip up to York and see that it isn't only a Labour council who can make a cock-up of things like this....

The multi storey used to be free for 20 mins.

I went ape at the carpark once when Mr Strix's train was late and we were charged for parking, as the procedure under these circumstances elsewhere is that the fee is waived - and quite rightly so.

I took my complaint to midland mainline and was ignored, then progressed it to the rail passenger body - who also took it up. Still no answer from mainline

The thrust of my arguement was that 20 mins was no time at all to unload, walk to the concourse, queue for a ticket, purchase a ticket and enquire about connections, clamber over to the platform, wait for a train, wait a bit more if it's late, say goodbye, recross the bridge, traipse back to the carpark, faff with parking ticket, depart.

Why would anybody do anything other than clutter up the short stay nder these circumstances?

I still got no reply, but they changed the free parking time from 20 mins to 40, and we frequently use the facilitiy, but the shortstay sign that currently states '20 mins free parking' should also advertise the 40 mins in the multistorey.

The carparking and approach should also be policed by the transport police at ridiculously busy times - notably when a train is late so there are cars waiting that would otherwise have left, and the taxi queue just gets so large it trails back to the back of the leadmill :rant:

Now if the inconsiderate twerps queuing to get in could just get it through their thick skulls that letting people out of the multistorey has no detrimental affect to their inbound journey to the short stay :loopy:

Maybe Mr Scriven ought to take a trip up to York and see that it isn't only a Labour council who can make a cock-up of things like this....
We're talking about this Labour council, Ousetunes.

If I were to start talking about Labour's performance in, say, Cumbernauld to try to win an argument about Labour's performance in Sheffield I would be ridiculed - and rightly so.

Incidentally, the facility I cited earlier in Manchester was created by a Labour council and it works just fine.

This is about the Sheffield Labour Party and their appalling attitude to transport in Sheffield.

whilst it is chaotic..and not ideal in alot of ways ... some of the drivers don't help either...when turning in to the drop off point instead of parking str8 outside the doors they should drive down to the end of the curve this would allow at least another 6 cars to enter the loop instead of backing up behind them waiting to enter....a little common sense would help.

also the car park is only 500 yards away with plenty of luggage trollies to wheel luggage to/from the station (the car park is a huge improvement on the small triangle that used to be at the front of the station). AND it's 40 minutes FREE.

aside from disabled/elderley and taxi's there's really no need to be able to drive right up to the station front.that's nothing to do with the council and planning that's to do with the selfish motorists who can't be prised outta there cars.

most of them would rather sit for 25 mins in this chaos then use the car park.

I used to do a pick up from the station every evening, and it was even bad about two years ago, so I'm now wondering what on earth they could have done? Have they narrowed the approach road? This was when the free carpark was only 20 minutes, and I used to instead wait in the back street, parked on a kerb, outside the garages. But sometimes it was so bad that I instead used to wait on No Frills! Maybe people could do that now?

So, Taxis are picking up and then cannot get back out of the station? Surely this means exiting Taxis should have automatic priority over other traffic? That would make perfect sense!

However, for taxi users who are worried about having to pay a monster fare, here's a top tip: Don't catch your cab in the station! Walk onto the main road and hail one as it returns towards the rank. :thumbsup:

Is it like this every evening or only at weekends?

The train station is now a disaster area. Integrated transport my ****. I travelled by train to work for seven years, it was bad then for access and safety, so I moved to the car (shame on me), howver today, I avoid using the train at all costs.Most buses go no where near the station, but at least you could get to a taxi without risking life or limb. I guess if you are lucky enough to live near a supertram route (as if) you may be okay.

Also integrated transport, having a laugh. If you try to switch buses in town to get you closer to the station, no integration, it simply whizzes by - eg 60.

As for taking a train, forget Friday, 25 minutes queue on a Sunday evening to get into the station.

The car park whilst well lit is not a pleasant place, I hate going in there at night, thus we need lots of taxis.

The council really need to look into the access, not even the London train statins are this bad. Again poor planning in Sheffield, no consideration for the needs of the customers.

Oh and a rant about the station. Not an escalotor in site. What century do we live in. The number of people who have to struggle up the stairs, across the platform and down the stairs... pathetic Sheffield. Come on, get something right and move with the times.

err pippadoll....there's a public lift on the concourse by the stairs and one in the middle of the footbridge down to platfroms 2,3,4 ,5 and another at the far side of the bridge for platforms 6,7,8 and supertram..all are clearly sign posted..no need to lug luggage up stairs and down at all.

escalators?? ask the listed buildings people just how much they have actually prohibited at the station refurbishment and how much they caused to be left out

What's the comparative capacity of escalators and a lift?
Escalators must be shifting 60 people/minute easy, a lift will be lucky to manage 10 in that time.

At the moment the vehicles leaving the station are given priority, but the sign at the entrance indicating this is so well placed that I (for one) didn't realise either way had priority until I came back to exit.
There are also just too many taxi's, which is causing them to stop in what should be through lanes, thus contributing to the chaos.
Finally the drop off/pick up loop is only a single vehicle wide, and the 10 spaces just before it are normally full and double parked with people waiting.

We're talking about this Labour council, Ousetunes.

but


Incidentally, the facility I cited earlier in Manchester was created by a Labour council and it works just fine.

My point is precisely that it isn't just Labour (wherever) whose policies don't exactly favour car owners.

I thought that point might be relevant to this topic.

it is irrelevant weather it is an escalator or lift.... the facitility IS provided for people to avoid carrying their luggage up and down the stairs.

Like i said....ask the people who list old buildings what they actually allowed to be built and what they insisted was left out.The council can't be blamed for everything (tho usually with this city they are ahd rightly so)

I regularly used to drop off my other half at the station, up until a week or two ago and never had any problems, zipped in and out! I suggest you all get trains at 6:50am like she used to.

Tee hee.

it is irrelevant weather it is an escalator or lift.... the facitility IS provided for people to avoid carrying their luggage up and down the stairs.

Like i said....ask the people who list old buildings what they actually allowed to be built and what they insisted was left out.The council can't be blamed for everything (tho usually with this city they are ahd rightly so)

It's certainly not irrelevant. Imagine replacing the escalators in the London Underground with lifts. The entire city would grind to a halt.

The lifts in the sheffield station are incapable of dealing with the level of traffic and so become virtually useless. Obviously they can still be used, but the majority of people are forced into using the stairs whilst carrying suitcases and heavy bags.
If this is down to planning restrictions then I suppose there's no help for it, but I'd be very surprised if escalators have had some sort of blanket ban placed on them, they are certainly still placed in new shops when they are built.

My point is precisely that it isn't just Labour (wherever) whose policies don't exactly favour car owners.

I thought that point might be relevant to this topic.
Trust me, it's not.

York City Council's policies don't affect Sheffield's and vice versa, and that's the way it should be. That's the whole reason we have local government.

And by the way, it's pretty poor form to trash the York Lib Dems on here where there's absolutely no chance they'll be able to defend themselves. It's also a pretty transparent attempt to say "see - Lib Dems bad - told you" which I hope people on here can see right through.

I'm can find plenty of examples of Labour incompetence, mendacity and hypocrisy elsewhere in the country - but I'm not going to cite them here because they are not relevant in this context.

Try again please!

It's certainly not irrelevant. Imagine replacing the escalators in the London Underground with lifts. The entire city would grind to a halt.

The lifts in the sheffield station are incapable of dealing with the level of traffic and so become virtually useless. Obviously they can still be used, but the majority of people are forced into using the stairs whilst carrying suitcases and heavy bags.
If this is down to planning restrictions then I suppose there's no help for it, but I'd be very surprised if escalators have had some sort of blanket ban placed on them, they are certainly still placed in new shops when they are built.

The problems with escalators....

- The entire station is a grade two listed victorian structure and any change of character is not allowed
- they take up a lot of space
- when they are closed for repair alternative stairs are required
- not everyone feels safe using them
- they are expensive
- they are not wheelchair accessible
- The proportion of passengers that have baggage too heavy to carry up the stairs are probably not high enough to justify them anyway

In terms of the station front signage needs improving and the system needs to be clearer:

- the station front turning loop is strictly for drop and go only and waiting is not permitted
- that free short stay parking is available in the station car park

The problems with escalators....

- The entire station is a grade two listed victorian structure and any change of character is not allowed
A little bit late for that isn't it?

- they take up a lot of space

No more so than stairs

- when they are closed for repair alternative stairs are required

This is true, but two sets are required, one up one down, so you close one set for repairs and make the other set stationary.

- not everyone feels safe using them

They seem to cope in most places.

- they are expensive

Excuse me whilst I cry into my council tax bill about that.

- they are not wheelchair accessible

Neither are the current stairs.

- The proportion of passengers that have baggage too heavy to carry up the stairs are probably not high enough to justify them anyway
The only valid argument I've seen yet. I guess some sort of study would be required to determine whether this is correct or not.

cyclone at their usual argumentative best as always :)

escalators ain't gonna happen so forget it.

there's a lift simple as that and that does the job of getting people up and over without using the stairs...irrspective of it it takes time the facility is there for all to use.

christ 2 years ago there wasn't even a lift.

maybe they should have flattened the entire place and rebuilt it..that would have been great but again the do gooders won't allow it so it's a case of working with what they allow....contact them and ask em why they wouldn't allow em.

The problems with escalators....

- The entire station is a grade two listed victorian structure and any change of character is not allowed
- they take up a lot of space
- when they are closed for repair alternative stairs are required
- not everyone feels safe using them
- they are expensive
- they are not wheelchair accessible
- The proportion of passengers that have baggage too heavy to carry up the stairs are probably not high enough to justify them anyway

Why not have escalators but also keep the lifts? The lifts would solve the problems of an escalator alternative during repairs, an alternative for people who didn't feel safe using escalators, they could be used by people in wheelchairs and by people with very heavy baggage. Everyone else could then use the escalators.

:)

Why have escalators? It's only about 20 steps up or down. You can run down them quicker than an escalator would get you moved on. What would work however, is having an 'up' and a 'down' staircase, so people wouldn't be doing the famous 'Sheffield dodge' and holding each other up. If you don't know what I mean by that, try walking in a straight line down a shopping street here - it's impossible as people just meander all over the place!

How on earth are escalators supposed to solve the taxi congestion? :confused: :huh: :confused:

The original thread seems to have moved off topic somewhat!

One of the reasons the road is narrow by the pedestrian entrance to the multi-storey is that that bit of road is actually a bridge (altho it doesn't look like it) and there are works being carried out. The wall opposite the pedestrian entrance was due to be removed/altered to allow the road to be widened but apparantly there are problems with this wall as it's structure affects the bridge you can't see!

IS this the entrance to the famous Sheaf Culvert? :shocked: :wow:

The problems with escalators....


- The entire station is a grade two listed victorian structure and any change of character is not allowed
- they take up a lot of space
- when they are closed for repair alternative stairs are required
- not everyone feels safe using them
- they are expensive
- they are not wheelchair accessible
- The proportion of passengers that have baggage too heavy to carry up the stairs are probably not high enough to justify them anyway


Okay, so I wasn't aware of the planning problem. But it does make the station inaccessible for travellers. Have you tried wating in the queues for the lifts at a busy time.
Have you used the station at a busy time?
The proportion of passengers with heavy baggage... for crying out loud it is a train station in the 5th largest city in the UK...get real
What happens when we are linked to Europe via St Pancs... don't need luggage...

Just go and look to see people struggling up and down the steps, look to see the crowding in busy times and being pushed around on the steps when you have heavy suit cases/bags etc.

You may only be looking at it from a planning view, but open your eyes to reality and the problems with the station.

pippadoll agree entirley it's a very busy station BUT..repeat..it's the listed buildings people who wouldn't allow these things irrespective of weather it's a busy station.These are the people who won't allow these changes no matter how much Network rail,midland mainline or the public want them.There word seems to be law.and they have to be obeyed...irregardless of what people say.

Maybe if memebers of the public had taken more of an interest when the plans were proposed and launched objections,instead of now then something might (tho doubtful) have been acheivable

..but the do gooders ..probably a minority of station users if any,at the preservation society type thing won the day despite the impracticalities.

These are the same people who listed Park Hill flats :)

I appreciate the planning laws and I am in agreement.

I spent seven-eight years at that blasted station and did contribute to the development plans.

The entrance is amazing, warmer and dryer than days of old.

Enough said on people access from me.

Not sure what is happening with the traffic flows though and can this be dealth with seing as the development is not yet complete.

I know that a company I work with no longer use Sheffield as a national training venue because of rail, road, access, parking and secruity issues. They have switched to York...

We need the station access to be great to encourage rail travel and to make better use of the rail service to Europe, but if the planners continue spoil access then maybe people will skip Sheffield and go straight on to Leeds...drifting onto another theme I know.

HOw can a taxi charge £6 for a 200m trip I though they charged on distance not on time spent in the cab ?

What i really want to know is will we be able to use our ice skates and sledges to get down the new ramp into the station when it gets frosty, it`ll be the best form of transport to and from the station now that the flamin bus stops so far away :rant:

Ahhhh, so that's what the ski lift was going to be for? ;)

perhaps they should just rip out everything that has been built and improved and turn it back into the **** hole it was 3 years ago....cos whatever is done people are never happy never will be.

it's NOT perfect but it's a damn site better than it was i think

short memories some people of what it used to be like.

A follow up story in todays Star:

A NEW get-tough parking policy will be enforced at Sheffield's train station to try to relieve traffic gridlock causing chaos for rail users.

Parking charges will be introduced in the short-stay parking bays next to the taxi drop-off and pick-up point and traffic marshals will enforce the changes after angry cab drivers claimed private cars were stopping them getting in and out of the narrow road system.

Taxi drivers say private vehicles are holding up cabs by dropping off and collecting passengers or waiting for one of the 15 minute waiting bays to become free.

They claim the gridlock is made worse because some motorists are abusing the bays by parking up for hours on end, meaning there are no free spaces for those who want to use the bays correctly.

Some passengers are being charged up to £6 just to travel 200 metres because of the resulting congestion - which is worst on Friday, Saturday and Sunday afternoons.

After The Star revealed the extent of the traffic chaos council bosses have agreed to start charging cars to park inthe 10 15-minute parking bays - and enforce the measure through traffic marshals.

There will also be better signs at the station to let people know they can park for up to 40 minutes free of charge in the multi-storey car park next to the station.

Council chiefs are also considering changing the traffic lights at the top of Turner Street, where traffic leaves the station, to try to allow cars to get out more easily.

The policy could be introduced in the new year but has to first be approved by station managers Midland Mainline.

Coun Terry Fox, Sheffield Council's cabinet member for transport, said: "Midland Mainline are taking this to their board to be approved. What we need is enforcement of the parking bays.
"Some of the construction workers have been parking in the short-term bays all day as there is no enforcement. People drive in thinking there will be parking and it's all gone. Then the taxi drivers can't get out and it all gets snarled up.

"The meeting agreed there should be some sort of charge for those bays to stop that happening. Lots of people don't know they can park for free for 40 minutes in the multi-storey so we are going to advertise that better.

"We've also asked the police to have some better enforcement of the yellow box in front of the traffic lights at Turner Street. When that gets filled up the traffic can't get out of Turner Street and the lights can sometimes change twice without the traffic moving.''

A NEW get-tough parking policy will be enforced at Sheffield's train station to try to relieve traffic gridlock causing chaos for rail users.

Parking charges will be introduced in the short-stay parking bays next to the taxi drop-off and pick-up point

Theres a suprise, instead of coming up with a meaningful way to reduce congestion, lets just hammer the people who need to use the bays with extra charges and line the coffers of the town hall.

Taxi drivers say private vehicles are holding up cabs by dropping off and collecting passengers or waiting for one of the 15 minute waiting bays to become free.

Amazingly predictable response from the council, lets start charging for it!

Instead of giving out free 15 min tickets and a big fine for stopping longer, lets see if we can't squeeze the motorist a little bit more.

And the moaning taxi drivers are half of the problem, there's too many of them trying to squeeze in.

Amazingly predictable response from the council, lets start charging for it!

Instead of giving out free 15 min tickets and a big fine for stopping longer, lets see if we can't squeeze the motorist a little bit more.

And the moaning taxi drivers are half of the problem, there's too many of them trying to squeeze in.

Couldn`t agree more, the train station should look really nice once it`s finished but the council are already trying to drive people away from using it.:loopy:

Although to be fair you can avoid the charge by using the multistorey rather than the station front bays.

The multi story is no better to avoid congestion. Have you ever tried to get in or out in the evening.

The council need to re-look at this and find a solution. Charging is no solution. If you need to pick up a friend/rel from the station, you will pay the charge. What other option do people have. The taxis are very expensive and there is NO SUITABLE BUS SERVICE. Most cities would ensure there was an effective free / subsidied shuttle to allow movement by the buses but not Sheffield.

Our traffic management and planning in this city is dire and laughable. Integrated transport... access to areas not supported by the not so supertram... don't get me started

Hopefully what the council is proposing will mean the short stay parking bays at the station front will only be used by cars dropping off then driving off, or picking up passengers allready outside waiting. All those that need to wait will be encouraged to use the proper car park (the multi-storey) by the fact they will avoid the charge to do so. This should mean the taxis aren't disrupting the traffic so much.

However there is also the issue of traffic queuing at the traffic lights a long time to get out of the station, not helped by muppets blocking the junction. The council perhaps need to review the one way system here, and perhaps even ban right turns.

In terms of public transport, as part of the station refurbishment a new tram stop was built at the railway station, with the footbridge extended to it. So you can step off a train onto a tram which runs up into the city centre at frequent intervals. This is a much higher quality city centre link than a shuttle bus would be and the fare is only £1 return for those passengers availing themselves of a train ticket with tram add-on. (£1 single otherwise)

In terms of interchanging with buses out to the suburbs, the station bus stop by the new square serves a number of routes - 41,50,53,94,95,120, then across the pelican crossing to Paternoster Row there is a bus stop serving routes 13,14,47,48, and of course the bus interchange is also just over the road from the train station, via a covered walkway.

The multi story is no better to avoid congestion. Have you ever tried to get in or out in the evening.

The council need to re-look at this and find a solution. Charging is no solution. If you need to pick up a friend/rel from the station, you will pay the charge. What other option do people have. The taxis are very expensive and there is NO SUITABLE BUS SERVICE. Most cities would ensure there was an effective free / subsidied shuttle to allow movement by the buses but not Sheffield.

Our traffic management and planning in this city is dire and laughable. Integrated transport... access to areas not supported by the not so supertram... don't get me started

to be fair, the bus interchange is 100 m away with a covered walkway to reach it.
A shuttle bus would be a stupid idea.

to be fair, the bus interchange is 100 m away with a covered walkway to reach it.
True, but a lot of buses (well, the ones I use) don't go to the Interchange - you have to walk up to Arundel Gate or the High Street to catch them. This is something that has bugged me for a long time.

the fare is only £1 return for those passengers availing themselves of a train ticket with tram add-on.
You always amaze me, Andy! How on earth do you get to know about all these obscure tickets, many of which sound like they might be quite useful if they were publicised? Though as it's an add-on to the train ticket, I guess you have to make it to the station before you can buy it (unless you buy the train ticket in advance, I suppose). Is there a similar concession to go with train season tickets?

Could you put up a link to the full rules for this add-on, please? [No doubt they're of the usual Byzantine complexity.] Thanks :cool:

The way it works is you ask for your ticket to be issued to Supertram instead of Sheffield. It's £1 extra and includes a return tram ride from Sheffield station to any destination on the tram network. This is only available for single and return tickets. I can't find any reference online (unless you count the adverts in pocket timetables available as PDFs) so for the t+cs you would have to ask at a station ticket office.

Another better advertised deal is 'Plus Bus'. If you buy a ticket to or from Sheffield to/from anywhere outside South Yorkshire, for £2.20 you can buy a day bus pass for Sheffield to go with it, valid on any bus company. This info can be found at www.plusbus.info or www.midlandmainline.com These can be purchased in conjunction with any valid rail ticket, including seasons, I believe.

to be fair, the bus interchange is 100 m away with a covered walkway to reach it.
A shuttle bus would be a stupid idea.

To be fair. Waiting for supertram at night is not a safe option. I felt very scared at the station stop.

To be fair, the buses I woud use do not run from the station or the interchange.

To be fair what is wrong with a safe shuttle, to and from town...

I only comment as I have spent eight years commuting too and from the station. If you do not commute by train and bus regularly you really have no idea of the problems commuters face.

I have to say I do have the same bugbear in the buses I catch don't serve the railway station during the daytime. The buses from Bradway stop on Arundel Gate, then you have to walk down Howard Street. Frustratingly the bus stop there has now been taken away, so you have to stay on to the Crucible and walk back. In the return direction there is a stop still at the top of Howard Street, however there is no shelter or timetable provided - and only the 293 stops there. If you want the 25 or 25A you have to keep walking up to either High Street or to the town hall.

Then suddenly after 7pm the 25/25A vanishes and gets replaced by the 53, which does pass the railway station (without stopping) and stops on Flat Street. This is closer to the train station, just a shame that in the evening I generally want to be in town to visit a pub, bar or restaurant (where the 53 doesn't go, unlike the 25/25A...) rather than catch a train.....

However this situation is nothing to do with the design of the railway station...

Actually talking of a shuttle bus from the station up into town, the number 60 bus served this function until, you've guessed it, they took the bus stop away...!

To be fair. Waiting for supertram at night is not a safe option. I felt very scared at the station stop.

To be fair, the buses I woud use do not run from the station or the interchange.

To be fair what is wrong with a safe shuttle, to and from town...

I only comment as I have spent eight years commuting too and from the station. If you do not commute by train and bus regularly you really have no idea of the problems commuters face.

Your record seems to have gotten stuck.

I have commuted, I used the train to various destination for several years.
Personally I have no problem with waiting for the tram, and if I did I could have waited just inside the station until I saw it.

I have to say I do have the same bugbear in the buses I catch don't serve the railway station during the daytime. The buses from Bradway stop on Arundel Gate, then you have to walk down Howard Street. Frustratingly the bus stop there has now been taken away, so you have to stay on to the Crucible and walk back. In the return direction there is a stop still at the top of Howard Street, however there is no shelter or timetable provided - and only the 293 stops there. If you want the 25 or 25A you have to keep walking up to either High Street or to the town hall.

Then suddenly after 7pm the 25/25A vanishes and gets replaced by the 53, which does pass the railway station (without stopping) and stops on Flat Street. This is closer to the train station, just a shame that in the evening I generally want to be in town to visit a pub, bar or restaurant (where the 53 doesn't go, unlike the 25/25A...) rather than catch a train.....

However this situation is nothing to do with the design of the railway station...
This also illustrates another problem with the public transport in Sheffield - you have to do about 5 weeks of research to figure out the most effective way of making whatever journey it is you need to do. All those different buses running the same route, or the same bus running different routes, at different times of the day; or the stops in one direction being nowhere near the stops for the same bus going the other way; the myriad of different tickets valid across different combinations of operators, and so on.

Maybe I'm just not very good at this kind of research. Even though I try hard to figure these things out for myself, Andy is always surprising me with new routes and/or tickets to try. Maybe you should start a consultancy!

Speaking of which, I don't suppose you have a figure for how much money is spent per annum on subsidising public transport in Sheffield? Something I'm interested in for purposes of comparison with other places I've been to.

try this http://www.sypte.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/5074F2FC-C3FD-4167-BFAE-DF4BBECA5396/0/AnnualReport200405.pdf

OK thanks :thumbsup:

So if we count all of the SYPTE expenditure as a subsidy, and there are no other subsidies, that's £92.4 million for the whole of South Yorks, which has a population of about 1.3 million, i.e. around 70-odd pounds per person per year. Referring to the other thread, that's about half what's spent per capita in Berlin (which I was using as some kind of benchmark, though it's not directly comparable for various reasons).

You want to try working down at the end of Fornham Street. At certain times of the day we cant get out of our yard for taxis. The council has bent over backwards for them, you only have to look at the additional 'taxi' parking areas marked out now. When these are full they don't go elsewhere they block our gates, the footpaths and the junctions and sod anyone else! After finishing a 12hour day shift it has taken over 20 minutes just to get round to the main road, we complained to the police and parking services and still it happens.

Could the annual fee that taxi owners pay to the Railway station make them believe they have a right to be there?

If you buy a weekly bus pass and the bus is full, you can't get on, so what makes taxi drivers think they can squeeze so many of them into one space? They just can't. End of. Why aren't they booked for obstruction :rant:

they have no right to cause rail passengers to miss their trains due to the station approach being littered with taxis going nowhere, but cluttering the place up. It'd be interesting to see if MM would consider revoking the permit of anybody obstructing the progress of it's fare paying passengers :P
Where's Andy C when he's needed?

HOw can a taxi charge £6 for a 200m trip I though they charged on distance not on time spent in the cab ?

PHV charge for distance. Black cabs charge distance and 20p for every 59secs they are stood still. (or under 3 mph, something in that region anyway)

There are far too many taxis for the station to cope with in it's present state, and all they do is block up the drop off/pick up point so nobody can get through

Theres only a couple of hundred allowed to pick up in the station, and they pay an annual fee for it.

Whenever I've managed to get to the front, there is always someone in the middle of the road, waiting for a space, thats part of the reason for delays.

I didn't realise about the free parking, maybe they should put up a big sign to make that clear.

Apparently, this sign is being made, about time too.


I feel particularly sorry for the taxi drivers who waste productive time queueing to get into the station - and their customers who then pay a fortune to get out... :loopy:

Exactly, a lot of drivers are not charging the waiting time that their meter shows.
it's NOT perfect but it's a damn site better than it was i think
short memories some people of what it used to be like.

It used to be a dump yeah, but, there used to be a way in and a way out.
Now(and when it's finished) there will be one way in and one way out -being the same road.:loopy: :loopy:
Amazingly predictable response from the council, lets start charging for it!

Instead of giving out free 15 min tickets and a big fine for stopping longer, lets see if we can't squeeze the motorist a little bit more.

And the moaning taxi drivers are half of the problem, there's too many of them trying to squeeze in.

I agree with all but the last bit. Believe me, taxi drivers don't want to be stuck in traffic. They pay a lot of money to have the business of the railway station. It's good business, and this new plan, helps neither drivers nor the customers, who are also having to pay.

You want to try working down at the end of Fornham Street. At certain times of the day we cant get out of our yard for taxis. The council has bent over backwards for them, you only have to look at the additional 'taxi' parking areas marked out now. When these are full they don't go elsewhere they block our gates, the footpaths and the junctions and sod anyone else! After finishing a 12hour day shift it has taken over 20 minutes just to get round to the main road, we complained to the police and parking services and still it happens.

The council allowed the number of black cabs to increase from 310(capped), to what is now an an unlimited amount, meaning that the old taxis ranks can't cope with 1300 which is how many there are now after only 2 years.

But the number of taxis which pay Midland Mainline to pick up at the station hasn't increased (to my knowledge), so the new road system is to blame, not the drivers who are trying to earn a living.


Not meaning to rant, but I hadn't seen the thread before, and wanted to answer some things.

ash:)

........ so the new road system is to blame, not the drivers who are trying to earn a living.


Not true.
A taxi driver, that chooses to stop outside the rank and in doing so causes obstruction to the road/pavement is partially to blame.

If the trade pays enough for you to sit around for more than half your time then the public are being overcharged!

Not true.
A taxi driver, that chooses to stop outside the rank and in doing so causes obstruction to the road/pavement is partially to blame.

If the trade pays enough for you to sit around for more than half your time then the public are being overcharged!

Partially to blame yeah. People waiting are partially to blame too, and the new layout is partially to blame. And collectively causing chaos.

It's not that the trade pays enough to sit around for half an hour. It's that there is more trade at the station, than driving around the streets without a fare for half an hour. (daytime that is).

The council allowed the number of black cabs to increase from 310(capped), to what is now an an unlimited amount, meaning that the old taxis ranks can't cope with 1300 which is how many there are now after only 2 years.

ash:)
Just a correction Ash, although the limit was taken off in 2001, there are still only 700 hackney carriages in Sheffield, and may be about 1300 private hire licensed by the Sheffield City Council.
I do however agree that even that number is saturating the market and a point has now been reached that if drivers can't earn enough to maintain their cabs to required standards then they start cutting corners on repairs and so we end up with safety issues regarding the whole taxi fleet.

Yep, well spotted tab, you're right. I got carried away!:hihi:
ash

.....I do however agree that even that number is saturating the market and a point has now been reached that if drivers can't earn enough to maintain their cabs to required standards then they start cutting corners on repairs and so we end up with safety issues regarding the whole taxi fleet.

This is an irresponsible post tab1. :nono:

Before taxi users are filled with alarm that vehicles are not being maintained to a safe standard, let me confirm that the council undertakes regular maintenance and safety checks on all licensed taxis. These tests are undertaken at a council approved testing site. Any taxis which fail the test have a limited short time to bring the vehicle up to standard before re-testing, and any serious defects result in the taxi being immediately taken off the road. Continuous failures to maintain a taxi to an acceptable standard results in the licensed driver appearing before the Licensing Board. From my experience as a member of the Licensing Board, such occasions are extremely rare.

Another problem with the new set up is if you come from the station back towards the multi storey car park there are no signs telling you the road straight ahead is a dead end! The number of people who come down to where the co op funeral place is only to be confronted by vehicles heading for the station, its only a matter of time before there is a serious accident here.

From my experience as a member of the Licensing Board, .

we almost certainly know each other then! :hihi:

we almost certainly know each other then! :hihi:


Well, SF (and probably the Licensing Board) is a small world! :)

Well, SF (and probably the Licensing Board) is a small world! :)

:hihi:

are you the one with a beard?

:hihi:

are you the one with a beard?

There's more than one member of the Licensing Board with a beard. Oh, just remembered, the other guy has shaved his off! :hihi:

There's more than one member of the Licensing Board with a beard. Oh, just remembered, the other guy has shaved his off! :hihi:

beards must be in fashion at the council!

beards must be in fashion at the council!
It's catching with the taxi drivers too :hihi:

This is an irresponsible post tab1. :nono:

Before taxi users are filled with alarm that vehicles are not being maintained to a safe standard, let me confirm that the council undertakes regular maintenance and safety checks on all licensed taxis. These tests are undertaken at a council approved testing site. Any taxis which fail the test have a limited short time to bring the vehicle up to standard before re-testing, and any serious defects result in the taxi being immediately taken off the road. Continuous failures to maintain a taxi to an acceptable standard results in the licensed driver appearing before the Licensing Board. From my experience as a member of the Licensing Board, such occasions are extremely rare.
My intention wasn't to allarm so I point you towards the word "if" in as if they can't earn enough money to maintain the cabs and earn a living wage, then I would ask you sir, do you think that they will give up food and heating or that vital service check up? I would imagin the latter.
As for why such occasions being rare, although the tests are stringent but each cab owner is given notice to prepare the vehicle and bring the cab in for test, so no doubt it should pass and even then many don't. A controlled and regulated market does have it's benefits where supply matches demand and the council acts to maintain a balance and not to shirk responsability by only concentrating on making more and more money from the extra licence fees.

Believe me tab, the tests are strict. One of our drivers failed this year, because his side indicator wasn't orange enough!!:hihi: :hihi:

I appreciate that it is tough and my friends in the taxi trade always complain enough about it.:lol:
I happen to drive up West Street last night and there was a traffic jam of empty taxis with their lights on just driving about like crazies. So that was a point I was trying to make also that a Local Authority keeping a balance in supply and demand is better than a free for all.

....My intention wasn't to allarm so I point you towards the word "if" in as if they can't earn enough money to maintain the cabs and earn a living wage, then I would ask you sir, do you think that they will give up food and heating or that vital service check up? I would imagin the latter.


You can imagine as much as you want, but the vehicle test is mandatory, and there is no escaping it. It is so stringent that vehicle owners take their taxis for a pre-vehicle test to ensure their cab is road worthy. Now kindly desist in your scare mongering.

You can imagine as much as you want, but the vehicle test is mandatory, and there is no escaping it.
If the collective in the council had any imagination we wouldn't have had blunders like the centre for popular music along with taxi de-limit, and the 21st city planning where one broken down car can cause a total gridlock. As it scaremongering to pose a question?
you point out that the test is mandatory but a two week period to prepare the vehicle is also the norm, so consequently hardly a "test" then is it? My pont is that to keep the vehicle in a maitained and thus safe condition the driver needs to be able to earn that extra to invest in cab safety. If the council keeps on flooding the market with more and more cabs and supply outstrips demand then as the earnings diminish so will the ability to maintain the cabs. It isn't enough to ask them to work longer and longer hours, there arn't enough hours in a day anymore for some of the b***ers. Instead of accusing me of scaremongering perhapse you can reply to my argument and prove me wrong.
I have dealings with the taxi trade, and get to talk to the drivers and taxi mechanics on a daily basis and I'm only putting to you what I understand from the taxi trade. Maybe DJ Ash can comment if I've got it all wrong?

If the collective in the council had any imagination we wouldn't have had blunders like the centre for popular music along with taxi de-limit, and the 21st city planning where one broken down car can cause a total gridlock. As it scaremongering to pose a question?
you point out that the test is mandatory but a two week period to prepare the vehicle is also the norm, so consequently hardly a "test" then is it? My pont is that to keep the vehicle in a maitained and thus safe condition the driver needs to be able to earn that extra to invest in cab safety. If the council keeps on flooding the market with more and more cabs and supply outstrips demand then as the earnings diminish so will the ability to maintain the cabs. It isn't enough to ask them to work longer and longer hours, there arn't enough hours in a day anymore for some of the b***ers. Instead of accusing me of scaremongering perhapse you can reply to my argument and prove me wrong.
I have dealings with the taxi trade, and get to talk to the drivers and taxi mechanics on a daily basis and I'm only putting to you what I understand from the taxi trade. Maybe DJ Ash can comment if I've got it all wrong?

:hihi: I'm not sure where this thread diverted to be honest. And, as your defending the trade tab, I won't argue tab.

But my thoughts on the de-reg of the 310: Good for people on West St who want to get home quicker. Bad for trade for cabbies.
However, 310, wasn't enough for the changes in the city since I was 'an 18 year older' (I never went out before that of course, no beard capabilities then). When I was 18, I walked home, no chance of every seeing a cab free at 2am when kicked out.

BUT (more change)...the alcohol licensing changes have meant that there isn't need for cabbies to earn their living in a such a short space of time. Hence cabbies can earn throughout the morning rather than just at 2am, AND, customers now get a taxi home quicker. So good all round.

The main problem, in this trade, is for daytime drivers. There is little work, and very few places to 'rank up'. Hence this debate.

I think about 500 limited would suit both customer and driver.

ash:)

:hihi: I'm not sure where this thread diverted to be honest. And, as your defending the trade tab, I won't argue tab.



I think about 500 limited would suit both customer and driver.

ash:)
The ex head of the legal department, Mark Webster wrote the report in 2001 recommending the lifting of the limit, but also stipulating that a city the population size of Sheffield needs about 725 cabs, and to look again when that figure is reached. His recommendation to delimit was taken on board and yet the other to look at limiting the number at 725 is ignored.
The cab union is a total waste of time, with go slow protests last year wasting everybody’s time and annoying a lot of people and achieving nothing. If you people in the trade have any future then it’s in forming a single representative body and hiring a good law firm to look after the trade interests instead of electing other cabbies to deal with professionals of the council who seem to run rings round you with ease.